Ok, I'll play! Fun stiff, Digit! My favorite End of the World happened on April 22, 1959 when I was a junior in high school, sitting in English class--watching the clock as the last few minutes ticked down! No, I didn't remember the exact date--had to google for that! This was in small town Chicago suburbia, and the biggest thing we had going on for the week or two before The End! We were ALL sitting there, "glancing" at each other, and trying not to laugh out loud--even chewing gum got you in big trouble Back Then! I never heard much of what the teacher was saying, but NOBODY heard anything that day! Then the time passed--and life got boring again! In searching for that date I found a site listing "failed" predictions going back to 156 A.D.! Fire, and Brimstone, and Armageddon, oh, my! The Costco site doesn't have all the wacko kinds of stuff as is found on the original site linked on this thread, but as far as I'm concerned, Costco is just trying to cash in on the same fear that all the "survivalist" sites use--just trying to rake in the "overlap" from those types of sites. Just my opinion, guys! Not trying to say anybody else's opinion is any better or worse! Here are the "facts" as I see them! What kind of a "disaster" are we talking about? I'm not talking about The Grid being down for a week, or even a couple weeks! Unless you're gonna EAT them, seeds aren't gonna be any help at all in a situation like that! And keepin' on for even a couple weeks shouldn't be all THAT much of a problem, though I am always amazed by all the people who have to go running out to "stock up" on food when a snow storm is coming! Do these people REALLY not have anything to eat in the house? Canned food, dried beans/rice/pasta, frozen stuff in the freezer, cereal---COOKIES, CANDY! Every time that happens I just don't get it! If food were the only issue, I could EASILY survive more than a month! Might not be happy with what I was eating by the second month, but I wouldn't be starving! Water would run out sooner, but I always have several gallons of potable water around, and while I'd probably get pretty dirty, if I was careful I'd have drinking and cooking water for at least a week or two. Yeah, the milk and bread would be gone--but man does not live by milk and bread alone--or something like that!!! So, let's say we're talking about a REAL disaster! Terrorists somehow manage to disable ALL utilities--with no foreseeable reparations! Seeds! Hmm! Let's hope it's PLANTING TIME right when this happens! Let's hope The Affected Party has some DIRT to plant them in! Let's hope The Affected Party has, at some time in the past, ANY time in the past, planted seeds so they know they don't get buried six inches deep! (NO! I don't believe somebody can "read the booklet" and successfully grow a garden! Most of you around here have TRIED to grow seeds, and how many of you think a Newbie is going to get much out of Their Seeds on their first try? Sixty eight years "after the fact" I STILL have trouble with some of them! ) Let's hope The Affected Party has seeds that are appropriate for their location/climate/zone--not at all likely when you're getting "generic" seed from a place that sells them all over the country. The Costco "collection" has hubbard squash, listed on various sites as between 90 and 120 days! Not too many of us are gonna succeed with that! Let's hope The Affected Party has some way to water them--not at all likely without power since all utilities would be out so there wouldn't be any "city" water, and even folks with a well would be dealing with a "drilled" well--and, uh, I think they're gonna have trouble finding a bucket that they can lower down the shaft and a long enough rope to lower it to get the water out of Said Well! And good luck trying to dig a hand-dug well out here on our end of the world! Even if you're right over an aquifer I think you're gonna need an awfully long ladder to get in and out of it while you're digging it! So unless your dirt happens to be right next to a lake or stream---Poor Seeds! Let's hope The Affected Party has some VERY good system for Defense! When there are power outages in cities even for just a day there's looting and all sorts of mayhem! What are the odds that somebody growing a large, lush garden full of Good Edibles is going to be able to successfully grow that garden to it's "logical conclusion" with mobs of hungry people roaming around in search of whatever they can plunder! Now, let's assume that The Affected Party has ALL of the things they need for their seeds! Right time to plant, long growing season, good soil, lots of water, right seeds--GUNS and AMMUNITION---and 24-hour lookouts! Let's consider The Freakout Factor! If the Whole Country Goes Down, people aren't gonna be sitting around contemplating planting Their Seeds! A few MIGHT, but most are gonna be either running around frantically trying to figure out What to do Next--and that's not too likely to be "planting seeds," which would give them no Immediate Relief at all!, or they're gonna be Playing Ostrich, and hunkering down somewhere they consider to be "safe" in hopes of "sticking it out!" Let's face it! Most of us are Humans--whether we want to admit it or not! With NO communication except human-to-human, mouth-to mouth communication, ALL law and order breaks down! As Digit so aptly pointed out, batteries are a very poor substitute for "power!" Even those folks who might be able to get the Emergency Alert System for a while, assuming the government was able to broadcast, would run out of batteries pretty quickly. Not to mention, what could The Government TELL us in a situation like that--except to Remain Calm! That's helpful!!! Everybody who's addicted to the WWW, including many of us, and anybody who's addicted to their cell phones, especially anybody born within the last 30 years, is going to be going thru some SERIOUS withdrawal! That in itself would be enough to keep many people from even thinking about seeds--when "their" Whole World has just come Crashing Down Around Them! No one is prepared for such a scenario, and there is no way TOO prepare for such a scenario. There's some guy now who's converting old missile silos into luxury "survival homes!" The story has been on the news a couple times lately! So, you buy a multi-million dollar Survival Silo--and you SURVIVE! What do you do, hunker down for the next 10--20 years, during which the ensuing Chaos reigns--all by yourself---in a hole in the ground! Don't know about anybody else around here, but that's NOT my idea of "life," even if I've successfully planted my Seeds and have a Bountiful Harvest of fresh produce! If Yellowstone "goes off" in my lifetime, I hope it's big enough that I Buy It in "the first wave!" I don't want to die slowly by inhaling volcanic dust that cuts my lungs up little by little! If somebody is actually insane enough to drop another atom (or worse) bomb, I hope it's close enough to me to vaporize me! I don't want to die SLOWLY from radiation poisoning! And if the entire U. S. Grid goes down, I don't want to be in a silo--even a luxury one--talking to myself for 10 or 20 years! So, I guess what I'm saying is that Wishful Thinking and a Boxful of Seeds probably isn't gonna be much help if a truly catastrophic situation should develop! BUT, I DO agree with you, Misty, that it's a good idea to have seeds around--for those folks who "normally" garden and would know what to do with them, in case of a Lesser Catastrophe, where there might actually be the possibility of growing your own food--just like many of us do now. But most of us who DO garden already save many seeds, and they're the ones WE picked, and the ones we know are realistic for us to grow in our area. And being olde doesn't necessarily mean they need to be thrown out! The SunGold seeds I plant every year were "packed for '96!" When I went to the Costco site I started to read the "comments!" I was amazed! A whole lot of the people who got the "survival" seeds are planting them already! Huh? Folks having trouble surviving right now? And what are they gonna do when they "need to survive," and all their seeds are used up!!! Loved the one guy who liked it because of "the professionally chosed variety of seeds!" And he lives in an APARTMENT!!! How far do we think he's gonna get with his seeds! Those of us who know what seeds ARE, and what they can do, can select and save seeds far better--and cheaper, on our own, and those who DON'T know what seeds are aren't gonna be helped very much by a "bucket of long-lasting seeds!" IMO! BTW, I checked out the original link---and they STILL have their $149 seeds for sale--the "waterproof seed bank" is FREE---UNTIL THEY RUN OUT! That site is gonna "outlive" most of the survivalists that are buying their seed!!! If you sell it --- they will buy it! Skybird

I just ordered a Kohler toilet, shower rod and rings from VintageTub.com I'm in Toronto. Best price for the Kohler Bancroft locally was $395 + 13% tax. VintageTub.com sells it for $329 with free shipping. Total cost delivered to my front door is $400. So $40+ cheaper than buying locally and free delivery to my door on top. Just tells me the locals are gouging on Kohler at least. I'm in a huge market (Toronto - millions of people) and the prices I got were from large operations that buy in bulk and get the best prices from the manufacturers. So no excuses when a US company can get me the same toilet, shipped from PA to Toronto with all taxes, duties, fees etc. for less.

Check here or there and let me know if you need me.

I would do Gray Owl for both spaces, since they are so open to each other.