Thanks for the extra info, folks, and I'm definitely primed and ready to convince Braveheart to survive, Kate. Betty Boop does sound like the right height, peachymomo, so that can fill one of the taller rose spots near Watercolors, and ooh, ooh, put Carlin's Rhythm on the other side! Kim - I presume this one has some height on it from the picture you show (or is that just California). Either way it's a lovely rose and one to be proud of. Thanks for the info on Tamango - it's interesting that the cross of two fairly undramatic roses like that and Iceberg could have the wow impact of Heart 'n' Soul, and then produce the dark beauty of Stormy Weather as a grandchild - part of the fun of breeding I'm sure, but given the work you've obviously done to mark your crosses on the rose hips it puts the idea of "fun" into a different light. Chardie, you definitely got some great advice on Lady Elsie May and she's repaid you well in blooms! I agree that she really doesn't rest and earns her keep. Beth, I await with baited breath the intriguing shrubs that I'm sure you have in your yard. And Donald, I am very glad that you enjoy my nattering on about roses enough to want more of it, but I'm such a technology dinosaur the very idea of a blog makes me put my hands over my ears going "lalala". Besides, the main time I put out much writing is usually when I'm supposed to be doing something else, so I wouldn't want the obligations of a blog - I'll enjoy the ones by Paul Zimmerman and Sherry and others and just chime in here now and then. Cynthia

Karen, that photo of Soft Summer Night makes me drool. A bunch more S photos for the pot: SUNRISE SUNSET BEAUTIFUL SELF DETERMINATION SONG IN MY HEART SUPERFICIAL SIGHS SAFE ISLAND SANOMA FALLS SWEET SUMMER HEAT SINS OF OMISSION SAN SIMEON SHELBY'S SONG SOUTH SEA ENCHANTMENT SAN LUIS ICE SPACECOAST EXTRAVAGANZA SIAMESE ROYALTY SWALLOWTAIL KITE SHADOW OF DOUBT BIG SUR SOVEREIGN QUEEN

K-Y - wonderful thought. I know this is tough for you. Thanks for your courage! As I mentioned before, my ex really has a tough time at Christmas. Cheryl was just 18 when she passed and was truly a daddy's girl! So many people had/stil have trouble, even after 13 years, that I think I get through it by trying to help others with missing her. But, I do know it takes a heck of a lot of courage to stand tall everyday and face it. I figure, if the Good Lord wakes me up everyday, I have no choice but to make the best of it. Hang in there Kid!! Whew, glad this isn't the Grieving Forum!! Luv ya for this one!! gng

I know it's been quite some time since your message was posted, however, I do have Hosta Sum and Substance, if you are looking for it. Mine is ready to be divided, it's come into leaf already, but it should still be alright to divide. Hope that this helps. Happy Gardening! Shelley