In a former life, I used to work with inbred mice. The minimum number of generations of brother X sister mating was 20 consecutive generations before an "inbred strain" was considered established. In many cases, the number far exceeded F20. The advantage in that situation was that after 20 generations, the resulting population was considered to be genetically identical (or close to it). This has terrific potential in medical research. Theoretically, genetics is no longer a variable. A particular trait can be "highlighted" with inbreds. A rare mutant trait may become normal in all individuals. As bambi pointed out, fatal traits are often highlighted by chance instead of "desirable" traits. It is rare to get inbreds to F20 because they simply die out! In plants, this may or may not be desirable. Each individual will eventually appear identical. Nurseries would go broke--no variety! --Stitz--

I have noticed the silver maples in south Springfield with very swollen buds, just busting to break open. We are going to the library later today, so will look along the route to see if any of them have "popped!" In previous years I was the grounds supervisor of a large hospital here in Springfield that was known for its annual tulip display. I remember one year we had all of the beds showing the tips of all the tulips in mid-January. There was a lot of cold weather still to come. Casual observers said that they were going to get killed before spring. However, they just sat there, growing just a bit more, and waited till Easter when they were up and bloomed! Hint: If you want a tulip that will always bloom on Easter weekend, plant Darwins. I have no idea how this tulip knows it is Easter, as Easter changes each year as to where it appears on the calendar, but they do. In 22 years of observing them, not once have they not bloomed on Easter weekend. Darwin tulips and Easter. Think about the irony of that for a bit. Rick Here is a link that might be useful: Cherty Rock Farmer weblog

Well, Carolyn, I appreciate the suggestion and would like to do that but, I'm sure you understand there are limits on time and ability, etc. I've noticed in some of the earlier threads your mention of these varieties and probably should try them. Unfortunately for now I'm limited to at most a dozen plants and will have to keep it to known favorites and a couple of trials. I expect to compare Ramapo F1 again and Moreton. So that's two from your list. The others go on the waiting list. I have a good garden spot but it gets a little more shade than I like for tomatoes so the big project for this year is to fell and clean up two large pine trees. (25" diam and 60' to 70' tall) That will keep me busy for a while (grin). By the way, I don't have a particular thing for hybrids as against OP. I generally grow some of each to put the ones I most like on the table. As to selling seeds; I'm not doing that only because I don't wish to make it a business. That said, I do now have enough of Dona F1 that I would be happy to share a few with you should you be interested in that. (not a general offer) Just think; you could conduct your own Dona F1 vs. Ramapo F1 trial and arrive at the revealed truth! Please be assured that having grown Dona F1 for a little over ten years now, I'm still in love. All the same, if I found one better, I wouldn't hesitate to throw her over and take up with the new hot tomato. (wink)

I had a similar experience with early cherry tomatoes grown in containers (in Pro-mix for veggies) vs at least nine other varieties of cherry tomato grown in the veggie garden (which was amended with aged cow manure). The four varieties of container-grown cherry tomatoes all tasted exceptional, whilst the garden-grown ones were all disappointing. Next year I really should grow the same variety in a container and the garden, except that I still want to experiment with more new-to-me varieties.... Linda