I haven't here because I have no mist capabilities nor any room in which to create them. When I volunteered at The Huntington Library propagating roses back in the eighties and nineties I did. I learned from the folks at Sequoia Nursery watching them do all manner of wonderful things with heat and mist. Mr. Moore took a three pound coffee can and poked holes around the side about an inch up from the bottom. He placed it on a mist table which was between green houses and tall trees where it received a few hours of direct sun and much filtered light throughout the day. He took disbudded (all but the top one or two) long whips of Pink Clouds and grafted two to three pieces of various miniatures just under the top growth buds to created the beginnings of miniature tree roses. Once the grafts were tied in, he would lay them down on the gravel under the mist while he worked on the next one until he had completed the number of that variety he desired, then he would rubber band all of the same variety together with a tied-on label and insert them into the coffee can where the mist would keep all the growth moistened and the water would collect in the bottom inch of the can before leaking out the holes around the sides. In literally a few weeks, as few as two weeks in extremely hot weather, they would remove rooted, knitted bud mini trees which would then be potted individually in four inch pots and placed under mist to continue developing their root systems. As they matured, they would be moved into less and less mist in the green house until they were sufficiently hardened off and could be safely moved out into the open sun where they were kept watered by overhead sprinklers on the nursery tables. What I used what his trick of taking a long whip of a potted root stock in the green house, disbud the length you want to work with and bud as many buds of the rose you have along its length, leaving an inch or two open between them. He would tie the whip into a nearly horzontal position to push the sap upward, forcing the buds to break into growth as quickly as possible. Once they were growing, he would cut them apart and root them under mist, producing budded plants with no stock growth buds other than the budded variety. To produce the scion buds desired, he would bend a cane of the variety he wanted over as you would train a climber, for the same reason, to push it to grow "laterals". Once they started pushing, swelling, not producing leaf or cane growth yet, just swelling into larger "bumps", he would collect and bud them. Having mist and green houses with free water (they had six wells on the six acres which were used for irrigation only); a climate with a true "four seasons" where Daphne, lilac, crepe myrtle, citrus, grapes, most berries, a very wide range of stone fruit, all varieties of redwood, ceanothus, many varieties of cherry, pomegranate, figs, loquats, quince...just about any kind of fruit not severely damaged by heavy frost in spots protected by dense, tall trees grew there. Summer visits often included snacking on berries, cherries or other treats. Mr. Moore was an absolute freak for any kind of berry. Many people (myself included) would bring him all manner of odd, wonderful berries which he always accepted with delight. And, they grew like the invasive weeds most are there! There was enough winter chill, enough water, enough organic litter from all the plants for them to grow massively with enough high heat to make them sickeningly sweet. Usually the humidity wasn't terrible. Rust and black spot occurred, but most often on the open air retail plants which were too crowded in small pots on the tables. In really "bad" years, rust would occur on the in-ground plants, but most often it didn't. The green houses were frequently between 100 and 120 degrees F in summer, with 100% humidity. Under those conditions, there are NO diseases and NO insects! Mr. Moore would lead with me dragging behind him through that heat and humidity to see the latest discovery or seedling. That heat and humidity wore me down quickly, but he stretched like an old cat each time we'd enter one of the "saunas". In those conditions, you can bud or root virtually anything with near total success. Those conditions lasted most of the summer and slowed dramatically as fall began the cool down into winter/spring. It was common to encounter massive "rose trees" consisting of many different rose varieties where a seedling or a piece of Pink Clouds or Rum 10, his thornless selection of multiflora from his Australian agent, Roy Rumsey, formed the roots. The trunks might be three, four or even five different roses which had been budded to the earlier plant to see how they grew, what they looked like. Since they were all seedlings, there was little concern for virus infection. Occasionally a sucker from an older seedling would sprout and Mr. Moore would propagate it to try again. Often, when I would bring cuttings, they would be removed from their bags and laid on the gravel or perlite surface of the mist tables in the mist house where they would be forgotten and root themselves in the table. Burling was able to provide the Hearst Castle tree roses a full year early because of being able to root the whips in pots in the green house and begin budding almost immediately. So, yes, under the right conditions, in the right climate, you CAN bud and root simultaneously. It usually requires high heat and extremely high humidity, tremendously greater humidity than I can generate here in So Cal. Kim

Please use new listin. Thank you. Ron S

Both responses are right on. Many will root like weeds one year, then refuse to root at all the next. Some will root like mad all the time, no matter what you do to/for them, others refuse to root or develop roots but nothing sufficiently vigorous enough to maintain a healthy, vital bush. Those are generally the weaker growers even budded, but some do just fine budded and aren't decent own root. Henry Fonda is one of those. J&P announced years ago Henry would come out on their Next Generation Roses, the own root plants, then had to back track when they found it was a dud own root. Not that you couldn't BUY it own root from some sources. Just because you CAN root something doesn't mean you SHOULD. As bluegirl stated, she can root some types right down the line, while others give her problems. In my California climate, I've often found the reverse of her experience with many moderns being easier and faster to root for me than the Chinas and Teas. That's where budding comes in handy. When you hit one which refuses to cooperate, you just pop a few buds under the bark of a suitable stock and generate more material for you to play with. Suitable stocks are often available as cuttings from a number of sources and are very often some of the easiest roses to root there are. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been suitable for root stock in the first place. When I was volunteering at The Huntington Library, I could root Mermaid virtually any warm month of the year in the mist propagator. Yet and established nurseryman of the time in San Jose, CA stated he could only root it in September in his climate and conditions. When I lived in the Santa Clarita Valley, just north of the San Fernando Valley where I know live, I could root most roses in a few weeks under plastic on my north facing balcony. In the milder, more humid climate in which I now live, I can't root roses under plastic at all. Here, the most successful method for rooting is the "Burrito Method" I've detailed on my blog. Roses put up as cuttings using any other method are most often failures in this climate, yet I can root Hibiscus sinensis almost year round simply by preparing the cuttings as I do rose cuttings, potting them in moisture control soil and watering them like I'm trying to drown them. I get nearly 100% take on the hibs. No matter what I've done to the roses tried similarly, I get nearly 100% failure. Now, stocks (Pink Clouds, IXL, Cardinal Hume so far) root extremely easily using the Burrito Method for me. I grow them on in pots and once the sap begins to flow, as evidenced by their pushing lots of new growth, I can begin Chip Budding them with almost 100% success. I will propagate them as cuttings this winter using the Burrito Method for own root plants, but I'm also going to keep budding things until then. It's a lot easier to build your collection with more tools in your chest. Kim Here is a link that might be useful: Pushing The Rose Envelope

Oh No---- I apologize, I didn't mean to be so confusing! Now that I have re-read my second post I can see where my answer just didn't make any sense. I was referring to the papal election when I first posted Habemus Papam. That is what I first thought of when I saw the cloud. All those years attending Catholic school will do that to you. Although Patti's cloud is much grander than that little wispy thing at the Vatican. But we do use that little phrase when someone answers a hard question- especially the Final jeopardy category. Thank you Patti for not embarrassing me- I managed to do that all my myself. LOL