Hi Jay -- Here's the reality . . . Gallicas, Damasks, Albas, Mosses . . . The lovely old Northern European roses . . . will not flourish along the Southern California coast. God knows, you can buy them and plant them, but they will not flourish. They will bloom sparingly for one year and less with each succeeding year, and the plants will dwindle. They will suffer from fungal disease. These roses were bred, and evolved, to enjoy a period of winter dormancy, and to pop up in the spring with a huge flush of bloom. Unless you can in some fashion simulate a cold, snowy winter in your garden, you won't do well. (If you would like to re-locate to property about 75 miles inland, now . . . ) One rose, absolutely correct for the period of significance you are aiming for is 'Autumn Damask.' It was the Roman's "Twice-Blooming Rose of Paestum." Roses that were bred to LOOK like the things you like . . . David Austin's Shrub Roses do this. Some do well in Southern California. Many do not. My garden is coastal, and I can give you the names of the Austin roses which have been successful here. The best roses for your location are those with a high level of Asian breeding -- roses that evolved for warm climates, and mild winters. They do not experience winter dormancy (and in fact may bloom most heartily in that season). They will become semi-dormant in a hot, dry season. I've never seen Angel Face really flourish here. I was really charmed a couple of weeks ago by this 'Burgundy Iceberg,' (photographed at a local Convalescent Home, where we were doing a Therapy Dog visit). It seems to be just as happy here as the original 'Iceberg.' If you want to contact me privately for coastal specifics, feel free. Jeri Jennings The Heritage Roses Group Coastal Ventura County, SoCal

>I'd prefer Felicia to Cornelia since Felicia, I've heard, has stronger scent? or is that not true? I have a couple Felicias that are babies now. (like I said in my previous... I'm not sure if they're doing well or not. They may just be young?) Hi Aimee, Rogue Valley lists them both with three "f's" out of a possible four for degree of fragrance. Francesca is for sure a beautiful rose, so good luck with it! If you ever do consider Cornelia too, well, I've read a few comments that its fragrance wafts on the breeze. >Both Kathleen and Mutabilis (which I guess are similar to Bermuda's Kathleen) are listed as shade tolerant... Neither one makes it to the ARE shade tolerant list, though they do sell both. (The person running that nursery is extraordinarily knowledgeable so I'd take his advice over the opinions of others.) >I'm open to Darlow's Enigma, too. I want something that does WELL there... otherwise I might want to try a shrub or something more tolerant? I've seen so many gorgeous pictures of this very fragrant rose that at one time I wanted it too. But it was a turnoff to discover that it is supposed to be unusually thorny. >I really like camellias too. Mary, that was one of my other ideas. So if the roses won't do well, I'd rather go with something that will do better. Your roses are probably going to do fine, with the right selections, I'd guess. On the other hand, with more thought as to the whole picture, you might want a little greater diversity in the front yard and some things with a bit of a heavier shinier leaf look to them. Two books to help you form your own landscaping ideas: House and Garden Book of Country Gardens," by Charles Quest-Ritson, and Landscape with Roses" by Jeff Cox. Consider Japanese maples if you end up looking for more trees. I never tire of looking at ours (three kinds here). >I have a small camellia roughly in that spot now, it's getting a little bit of burning on the leaves, but overall seems happy, so I'm guessing as it gains maturity, it will be able to tolerate sun better. I don't think you ought to generalize the experience for a single camellia (japonica?) to all the many others you might consider for the same spot. Some varieties aren't too picky about how much sun and sun protection they have, and some are very picky. The variety in that spot is just probably one of the pickier ones and is wishing it were in a slightly shadier spot or were getting better watering. >Mary, how do you mean "for the front walk"? sorry, I can't figure out which part you mean exactly., do you mean along the sidewalk coming from the front door, on both sides...? (before it does a right angle?) Edging each side with shishigashiras would work well for the entire distance, I'd guess. >I'm just having trouble with the part that's right up next to the front of the porch (the foundation) There are an unending number of potential choices and combinations, all of which would make a nice inviting entrance for your house. It all depends on what you personally like best. If it were my house, I'd opt for some Bonanza camellias spanning the front next to the porch, with perhaps a rose climbing the two pillars where you have two MAC's planted now. >I'm seriously considering putting a tea (probably Archduke Charles) in the front middle area. I think that one is a china, but it should still do quite well in your climate. Gorgeous! If you're hoping for the evergreen quality that many of the tea roses have you'd just have to ask locally about that. >I also was thinking about pillaring a rose, like you said. but I'm on the fence. It would be great if one of the roses already on my short list was one that could be pillared. In seeing some more pictures now, I'd suggest the pillar for a larger planting area than what you have right in the front. The height of your climbers next to the porch might be enough for that area; too many focal points amounts to not having any. A pillar might make a really nice focal point in your side yard though. I'm not sure which roses are on your short list-- I might not have seen that list anywhere. Anyway, it wouldn't hurt to post them all again in a very organized fashion. Ideally, include a division as to front yard/side yard/back yard plant intentions, assuming you've taken the ideas that far. It also would be very helpful to actually make it into a much longer list, listing first the names of the roses you've already purchased/planted in those yard areas, along with a dotted line to separate the ones not yet bought but that you're considering for future purchase in those same particular yard areas--with all three yard areas totally separated by lots of space and double dotted lines. You are doing enough stuff all at once there that it is easily confusing to try to recall everything you might have mentioned somewhere sometime in different posts now, and this is the very most basic information that anyone wanting to offer suggestions needs to have. There's also a benefit to forcing yourself to organize your own information: it's not just a benefit to your readers, but you yourself can do a better thinking job with the information, once you've organized it enough to have it ready at your fingertips. Best wishes, Mary Here is a link that might be useful: A shade-tolerant rose resource

If you cant find Abe, by all means, order from David Austin directly! For years, the roses I order are top quality, large, and always grow well. I sure don't have to see their roses before I buy. I am getting ready to make a big order and there is no doubt they will all be top quality. I adore Abe, have 2 and am going to order a 3rd. Their prices are like Heirlooms - and you get a huge bareroot instead of a band [tho the Heirloom bands are healthy and nice sized]. With DA - the bush takes off right away and is big. I wouldn't hesitate at all to order from them. As for apricot, one of my favorites is Crepuscule. It has small gorgeous apricot blooms and it blooms repeatedly. It has a beautiful arching form - I plant as many of these as I have room for. Fabulous rose!! I ordered Polka from Heirloom, its still a small band in a pot and will stay potted for at least another year. To me, best bet is order from D. Austin. You wont be disappointed. Judith

Hi! I see you also posted here, please check out my post for you under conifer section if you havent done so. you might be alarmed by the color changes of this arborvitae.