hi, I like 'solid gold barking at the moon' but where I live it is $2 a lb!!!!!!!!! 15 lb bag $30!!!! I have used canadae, some of my dogs dont care for it. just got some evo by innova. think they all like it, but too high protien for little pups. Innova, with the shipping and handling, turned out to be around $1.17 per lb, which is still very expensive. I am trying to find something that I can slowly cook less and less for them. Dont mind cooking, but with 5 dogs it's alot. And expensive. I also go to Walmart and get the 5lb rolls of cheap hamburg for $6. and also the 10lb bags of leg quarters for .43 cents per lb. This is on par with canned dog food, and sometimes cheaper, except that I cook it, and debone it. In nice weather I like to feed raw, but in winter there is no place for raw chewing. Not in kitchen, and outside it's usually to snowy, icy, cold.
Sherry

Interesting article but I can find several debatable subjects in it. I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to prepare fresh meals from scratch for their pets seeing as how most of America relies on the multinational junk food conglomerates to feed our own selves with unhealthy garbage.

You have to start somewhere, but they haven't even improved ingredients.

My family has always fed our dogs a mix of cooked and commercial food. In the past it was rice and chicken (or other meat) mixed with dry foods. Since the pet food scare I started feeding my terriers based on the recipe by Veterinarian Dr. Michael Fox, and Vita Bone dog biscuits, plus occasional tiny portions of table snacks and veggies for treats. The recipe is available online. I can post it if needed. I make 2 batches of the recipe and it lasts my 3 terriers about a week.

The other day I was cooking a batch of dog food and decided to analyze the nutrient content. I used a program called Dietpower which allows you to enter recipe ingredients. The program then shows a nutrient profile for the recipe. I also went online and checked on RDA's for dogs. I was happy to find the recipe supplied the RDA's. It is basically 1/3 protein, 1/3 fat, and 1/3 carbs. The recipe recommends varying the ingredients to help insure getting all the micro nutrients. The Dietpower program indicated a human could easily live on this diet with added vitamin c & d.

RDA's for dogs is pretty interesting because some of the nutrient requirements haven't been studied all that much.

Since putting my dogs on this diet I've noted they seem to be healthier. Their coats are shinier, etc. and their moods have been much happier and loving.

The drawbacks are the prep, obviously, and that you feed at least twice a day, which could be a problem for some people. It's also more expensive than dry or canned.

I'm very happy with the results so my pet food purchases will be limited to dog biscuits (too much work to make at home, imho).
-Hal

Please post the recipe hal lets take a look at what is involved in cooking a meal for your pets.

daggett, Canidae is a very good food. I know a lot of people who have fed this for a long time with great results.

sherryinmaine, a couple of things about Innova Evo... You mentioned that it has too high protein for puppies. That is true, if you are talking about a giant breed pup, whose growth rate needs to be carefully regulated. Most other size dogs would do fine on it. Also, be careful comparing foods on a price-per-pound basis. The amount of food fed per meal varies considerably from brand to brand, based on the ingredients. A food with fewer fillers will be served in much smaller amounts. That is, if one food costs $1 per pound and you feed 1 pound per day, and another food is $2 per pound, but you only feed one third pound per day, the food that costs more per pound is actually far less expensive to feed. Perhaps a price-per-meal or price-per-day comparison would be a more valid way to judge how expensive a food is.

quirky, I disagree with the idea that foods like Innova and Timberwolf are overkill with ordinary house pets. It's not like the ingredients are supercharged or something, it's just that the unnecessary ones have been taken out and only the useful ones are left. My big guy (dane/mastiff mix) is a lazy slug of a dog, and he always has been, but in relative terms, he has much more energy now than when he was on a different food. He also poops SUBSTANTIALLY less, which is a very important consideration with a pup this big. :)

holligater, thanks for the warning about the copper. I was originally advised to go with the lambmeal and rice because one of my dogs was having a skin problems with the chicken formulas I tried. I needed a low-fat food because she had a tendency toward obesity as do most corgis. To keep weight off, I had her down to about half a cup a day. She would look at me so reproachfully when she saw her bowl so empty that I stretched out her kibble with thawed greenbeans. Without the greenbeans, she had so little to eliminate that she had a hard time pushing it out past her fluffy white butt. I blame it on those thrifty Welsh farmers who must have bred their dogs for efficiency. It seems that I have the opposite problem with poop that you do.

Hi all, I am the original originator of the question. I put my dog on Nova and she looks like she got fat. She is so wide now. She is only eating it about 3 weeks. The bag said 3 cups but I never feed her that much. I gave her 1 1/2 cups and she eats veggies. Do you think the food has a lot of calories. Now she has the same problem as her owner.Should I put her on the weight maintenance if they have it?
Lynn

I always enjoy reading about what others feed their pets, it's so interesting and I always learn something! That said, we feed our 3-year-old rough collie Canidae dry (the all life stage formula) and she does super on it. She is 50 lbs so she gets 1 cup in the a.m. and 1 cup in the p.m. Her weight is stable and her coat is drop-dead gorgeous. Her stools are firm and seem quite appropriate, "quantity-wise," as far as poop goes!

When we first got her as a 14-week pup from the shelter, we started her on Nutro until she was about a year and we (and she) liked it well enough, but ultimately opted to move to Canidae because we wanted to give her something we felt strongly about, nutrition-wise, and haven't found a need to change since then.

{{gwi:2033847}}

(As an aside, we feed our cats Royal Canin dry kibble (the indoor formula) and Felidae wet (only on occasion, not regularly) and they all do well. Their weights are stable on it and they love their mealtime. Our male could be in a commercial, he does those silly circles around and around until his bowl is set down - so cute.)

fivemonkeys

We use Wellness, and I give mine one cup twice a day. If you think the dog is large, I think you should cut back on the food until you think it is healthy.
Sammy

Great thread, although rather disturbing at times to think about what I may have been putting in my dog's bodies in the past! :-(

Any thoughts on AvoDerm? We feed our 5 year old German Shepherd the lamb & rice.

Also, just got a new Samoyed puppy. Any suggestions there?

Woohoo, I just went to my favorite pet boutique, and they have both Wellness & Canidae! I bought a 5 lb bag of Canidae for $8.50 to try out, as my sheltie likes treat-dispensing puzzle toys, and I thought Canidae would be better for my carpet than green beans and spinach (part of her usual meal). She had been eating Nutro Ultra before I got her (her long coat looked awful), and I got a free bag of it when I adopted her, but I only give it to her as a treat. It's not on the Whole Dog Journal's list, so goodbye Nutro, hello Canidae!

I admit, I've been avoiding really reading this thread because I thought my furbabies were just fine on their current food (Nutro Natural Lamb & Rice) but after reading through and doing a little extra research I can't believe all the filler crap that is in their food! The news about bad amounts of copper being in the lamb is really troublesome too!

I saw a big (good) change in my BC's coat when I changed her over from Purina to Nutro which encouraged me not to change, but after all this I'm going to try Canidae. I like the meat content of the Innova Evo, but since my other dog is only 6 mo old it sounds like it's best to wait on that until I can switch them both over. The way they are going through their current bag of Nutro I think I can start switching them over ASAP.

I'm linking a website that has a lot of really great reviews on dog food. It helped me make my choice - maybe it can help others! :-)

When my dogs were on nutro, their poop was very soft and hard to pick up. Also one had digestive issues and was either throwing up or having diarrhea all the time. They got switched to Canaidae. Poops are firm and hard and they are doing well.

lgiorgi, you said "I put my dog on Nova and she looks like she got fat." I am not familiar with Nova, so I did a Google search and came up with the "Nova Foods Fitness Trainer" line. Is that what you switched to? If so, I would recommend switching back to whatever you were feeding, because almost anything would be better. The main ingredient in that brand of food is corn, one of the worst ingredients of all. I will, however, assume that if you switched because of this thread you would not have chosen that food. Perhaps you meant "Innova" instead of "Nova"? If so, that would make much more sense. Innova food is extremely calorie dense. Before my Great Dane mix puppy was old enough to switch to Evo, we fed her regular Innova Adult formula. At 100 pounds, she only ate about 2 or 2.5 cups per day. If your dog is smaller than she was, less food would be appropriate. I have recommended Innova to several friends who had underweight dogs, and it solved the problem quickly. You have to be very, very careful with portion control on Innova.

No matter what you're feeding, if your dog starts to look fat, you need to adjust the portion. With my dogs, I use plastic cups as scoops, and I've found that something as simple as filling the cup to the ridge a quarter inch from the top of the cup instead of all the way to the top can make the difference between pudgy and trim pups. I would strongly suggest going the portion-control route instead of the "low-fat" formula route. Diet formulas are simply alterations of the main formula and, in most cases, have not been through any real testing to determine whether they are still "balanced" diets after the fattening ingredients have been removed. I had a problem with this with a cat who died because of a low-fat food I had him on. It affected his taurine absorption, which led to heart problems. So, if your dog gets chunky, feed less.

jmzms, don't feel bad about what you have fed your dog in the past. We were all bamboozled by the skillful marketing of the big dogfood companies for years. It's what you feed now that you know better that matters. You asked, "Any thoughts on AvoDerm? We feed our 5 year old German Shepherd the lamb & rice." I have heard of AvoDerm, but I had never checked it out for myself, so I went to their web site to check out their ingredients list. Here are the first ingredients in the lamb and rice formula: Lamb Meal, Ground Whole Brown Rice, Ground Whole Rice, Oatmeal, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Ascorbic Acid). Looking at all the ingredients listed before the first fat source gives you a good indication of what the vast majority of the food is made of (pretty much everything after this is there to add flavor or vitamins/minerals). The thing that jumps out at me on that ingredients list is the old trick of listing several forms of the same ingredient (Ground Whole Brown Rice, Ground Whole Rice, Rice Bran). It's quite likely that, combined, this means there is more rice (i.e., FILLER) than meat in the food. That, in addition to the concerns explained earlier in the thread about the high copper content in lamb, makes me a little leery of this food. Overall, the other ingredients look fine and there doesn't seem to be anything harmful, but I suspect you could find something much better for the same price.

moonbyte5, thanks for providing the link to the dogfoodanalysis.com site. That's a really good place to start to see where your food ranks, and it's one I refer to frequently. I will say that their review process is a bit simplistic and ignores some important issues about certain ingredients. That said, it does provide easy-to-read and unbiased reporting of what is in foods. It's hard to tell any more who we can trust. I have even been surprised by the quality of some of the foods included on the list put out by "Whole Dog Journal." I am really puzzled how some foods get on that list.

This has been a very informative thread.I just wish I had read it 3 days ago! I have a Chihuahua that is 6 months old.I actually think she is a mixed breed.The kid we got her from had her advertised a "Teacup" Chihuahua but I think she is actually a Coffee Mug size.LOL anyway,when we got her I started feeding her the same brand of food that I have been feeding my other older Chihuahuas for years,(PMI Nutrition) only in the puppy formula.She fattened up and her coat is sleek and shinny and she has all kinds of energy but from the beginning she has had gas reeealy bad and really stinkie poop.I thought it might be from the fact that she was not well cared for and had worms when I got her at about 8 weeks of age and a new diet may have upset her a bit and that she might possibly just outgrow it.In spite of improving her health she still was gassie and stinkie.LOL Poops are always firm though,no diarrhea. So I decided last week that maybe if I changed her food it would improve the problem.I bought Iams puppy formula but after reading all the posts I think I shouldn't have!LOL She is actually DH's baby and he is the one who feeds her and walks her.I told him to start mixing the food with her other food and gradually wean her off the old stuff but you know how men can be sometimes! He just started feeding her the new food,cold turkey.I told him he could clean up the messes if there were any.Luckily she has adapted to it very well.I don't know about the smelly poops because he takes her out but she doesn't seem to be quite as gassy.I was thinking maybe she was allergic to the corn in the PMI but the Iams also has corn,and they both have those dreaded chicken by products! As I said,my other two Chihuahuas are on the PMI but have never had a problem like the one with the puppy. They are and always have been healthy.One is 11 years old and her daughter is almost 10.They act like much younger dogs and are in very good shape with sleek shinny coats,and as Holligator mentioned the poop dries up and disintegrates quickly.I hadn't planned to change their food but after reading all the information here I may consider it.I'm off to check out some of the brands everyone is using.

Someone way earlier in this thread said they had switched their dog to EVO, and wondered what to feed their cats. EVO makes cat food, also.

I feed my cats Healthwise dry food, which is the low end of Natura's (the makers of Innova and EVO) line of pet foods. It's still a very good food. I feed that to them because they like it better, and will eat it. I do occasionally get them Innova or EVO, but they leave a lot of kibble in their plates, uneaten. I also feed them the Eagle Pack canned food. Again, it's what they like the best. I have in the past fed them Eagle Pack Holistic, and Solid Gold, but they got to where they just wouldn't eat those foods. I've tried them on Wellness, and they really didn't like that. (Can you tell it's cats I'm trying to feed?) There's actually one of my 7 cats that will eat anything we put in front of her, as long as it's food, but the others are a bit more picky.

Their coats are very shiny, and when I took one of them into the vet recently for her shots, the vet said she wished all "her" kitties were this healthy. My niece and a friend of hers came by to visit recently, and her friend was amazed at how good their coats look. I'm so used to their coats, I hadn't really thought about whether they were good coats or not. (except I do have one short haired cat whose coat feels like rabbit fur, it's so thick and soft.) I guess I'd have to see a cat that ate grocery store food to compare.

I work for a place that sells some of the brands I mentioned. I had a customer give a testamonial about the Innova. He adopted a long haired dog, a Sheltie if I remember correctly, that was a rescue situation. The dog's coat was a mess, he was fat, and his skin was bad. The previous owners fed him grocery store treats, such as snausages, as his primary diet, along with table scraps. Anyway, when the man first adopted the dog, he took him to the groomer to clean up the coat. The dog's coat was so bad the groomer wanted to just shave him. But the man said to just clean him up as best you can. After 6 weeks of eating Innova, the dog lost weight, his coat and skin improved, and the dog was full of energy. The man took the dog back to the same groomer, and the groomer commented, "Oh, you got another dog." The groomer couldn't believe it was the same dog. The man had a hard time convincing his groomer that yes, it is the same dog.

So, there you have it. Just like people, a good healthy diet can do wonders for your health, or your dog's or cat's health.

(I hope this doesn't come across as spam or advertising. I apologize if it does. Many of the good quality dog and cat foods, such as Wellness and Canidae or Felidae are brands I would highly recommend, even though the store I work at doesn't sell them)

Sally

Some more thoughts and questions . . . I decided to try Evo because I've heard so many good things about it, have foster dogs and small dogs of my own - got the Small Bites formula, and NONE of them will touch it. I've tried Wellness in the past, they didn't like that either. I have a new vet who has done a lot of work in nutrition and he thinks Canidae (which I was feeding when I started with him) is not a good food at all. (he doesn't sell any dog food) Who knows - every time you hear something you hear something to contradict it elsewhere. I do think to some degree aside from common sense and not feeding your dog the worst junk on the market, that it really varies from dog to dog what they do well on. I'm not sure where to go from here. This vet actually likes Royal Canin, which I had not even heard of before. I think I'm going to return the Evo, but am wondering what to try next. They need small size, and one of them has a sensitive stomach. Should I try another version of Evo? Should I try Timberwolf, Nature's Logic? Merrick? .......

blueiris24- A vet I worked for recommended Royal Canin to me and she sang high praises about it to everyone. It is costly and not that good of a quality. My dogs health issues did not improve with it and she had constant urinary problems while on it (6+ months)-this food was supposed to help prevent them.

I put her on Solid Gold and have had no urinary problems since then. She quit smelling like Fritos, too. My shih tzus eat the Holistique Blendz- it isn't mini kibbles but smallish, flat type kibbles. They have no problem scarfing it down.
Cost wise I pay about $25 for a 15lb for the Solid Gold. The Royal Canin was a 3 pound bag and it cost me about $14.

I haven't tried the other brands you have mentioned, but I recommend checking out the Solid Gold line. Good Luck!

blueiris24- I use the Timberwolf black Forest venison as part of my GSD's diet and she is nuts about it. I even use it as training treats for her. Have not tried the Merrick dry with this dog but the two I lost within the last year or so really liked it. Current dog does love their canned products tho. Jerri, current dog, also gets one raw meal a day. I use the frozen raw just because it's easier to feed.

Lisa

blueiris24, I'd be really curious to find out why that vet thinks Royal Canin is better than Canidae or why he thinks Canidae is not a good food. If he has really done 'a lot of work in nutrition' (I wonder what that means, too), he would see some very problematic ingredients in Royal Canin. All the evidence points to Canidae being substantially better than Royal Canin.

It's unfortunate how little most vets know about canine nutrition. It's even more unfortunate when those who don't know much pretend that they do.

Not stating this pertains to all vets--but when I resided in Victoria my Vet said their nutrition "class" was a Science Diet rep coming in!! So to learn about nutrition, they had to do thier own homework!!

I bought Evo to try this past Saturday and none of the 3 dogs has or will touch it. They said I could have my money back if the dogs don't like it, so I'm heading back this week in search of another option, maybe I'll try Solid Gold or Timberwolf.

Blueiris, you might check the expiration date, and make sure it's not old.

Sally

Sally, thanks, I checked and it's fine - but none of my dogs will touch it. I returned it today, and the store owner gave me some sample bags of Solid Gold and a bag of Life4K9, which I had not heard of before. One of the dogs has a sensitive stomach and she said those dogs generally do better on baked food (Life). I gave them the Solid Gold samples for lunch and dinner and they devoured them, so I think we're finally on the right track -- I will try the other too and see what they think. Thanks for your help.

I've never heard of that one, either.

Sally

We have a 7 year old lab mix and got a 2 year old boxer from a rescue group a week and a half ago.

We've been feeding them Canidae, and I'm hoping it will fatten the skinny boxer up. The lab mix already started to gain weight on it, which she didn't need, so we cut back on her portions.

They both seem to have good energy with this brand and their BMs look normal.

I thought we could change flavors occasionally, so our picky lab mix wouldn't get bored with it. It comes in lamb, chicken and fish.

The raw diet that Weed and some others use is probably ideal -- I'll research that for dogs and cats as well.

Our three cats want Purina One mixed into any of the pet store brands we have tried, and it's probably not the best.

Janine, email me if you have any questions about BARF!

Thanks in advance, Gina!

Isn't Inova made in China ???
salbwil

Isn't Inova made in China ???

No.

Interesting thread. I have a 17 month old Yorkie (spayed) that has very dry skin. I have been reading online about premium dog foods being much better for their overall health and skin. She has been eating Eukanuba for Yorkies, but doesn't seem to like it very much and it hasn't helped her skin at all. After doing some research I had pretty much decided to go with a grain free kind and chose Nature's Variety because it had a high rating and said it was good for the skin. I found a feed store near me that sells that brand. I went there and all they had was a LARGE bag of it. Well her being only 5 lbs, I didn't want to spend that much on something I wasn't sure she would eat. The lady there told me that I needed to be careful of a high protein food that it might not agree with her. She suggested Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream with Smoked Salmon (a little lower in protein) but a very good grain free kibble. She said it should be very good for her skin. She told me how to integrate it with her regular food so as not to upset her tummy, until she was finally eating the new food by itself. She had told me of a dog she knows that had very bad skin and hair and after being on a diet TOTW his skin and hair are great. After I got home with the food I went online to check out this brand. Seems everyone that has anything to say says that the food itself has wonderful ingredients. But several of the people reviewing it were very disappointed that it is manufactured by Diamond which is one of the companies that was on the recall list from the scare a while back. By the way, Eukanuba was also on that list. TOTW is their newest product and it is grain free. I take it that the recall list was for tainted grain? Some said that you should give this new food a try because of the good ingredients and accept that Diamond learned it's lesson and would be less likely to do anything wrong. Others said they would never give their pets anything that was manufactured by Diamond EVER. I am a little leary of what to do. I did give my baby some of the food tonight mixed with her Eukanuba. She passed right over the Eukanuba and ate all of the TOTW. With the mixture I prepared the TOTW was 1/16 cup. Any comments would be very much appreciated. Has anyone used this food yet? What results did you have? Thank you,
BW

I feed my cats taste of the Wild, and they both love it, and they are picky eaters!! Well the female is picky, the male will eat almost anything!!
Ya, we must have looked at the same websites, lol everything is fine, EXCEPT made by diamond,lol Feed my dog Merricks.
I may start purchasing Taste of the Wild online, same price (including deliver) as from the store. And I dont have to drive 10 miles!! But then again, I like to support the smaller family owned pet stores

Well, compared to Eukanuba, TOTW is a huge step up, but it is nowhere near as good as many of the other grain-free formulas available. For a grain-free food to be that low in protein (25%), it means that there are a lot of fillers. In the case of the "Pacific Stream" formula, there are three different potato products listed (potatoes, sweet potatoes, and potato fiber). I also question the wisdom of an all-fish diet for dogs, except in the case of a dog with allergies to other protein sources. Finally, I'm not a fan of canola oil as the main fat source for dogs. I'd much rather see an animal fat, such as chicken fat or fish oil.

For what it's worth, TOTW's other formulas all look better to me than the Pacific Stream. I'm not sure why that would be the one recommended to you. Pacific Stream does have slightly lower protein levels, but given the reason, that's not necessarily a good thing.

I wouldn't worry too much about Diamond at this point. As much money as they lost during the recalls, I suspect they are at least as cautious now as any other manufacturer.

airforceguy and holligator,
Thank you for your information. The lady that recommended TOTW said that the salmon would be good for her dry skin and that the lower protein would be less sensitive on her stomach. I only bought a 5lb bag, but considering my baby is only 5lbs herself, it will last a while. I hear some people saying they rotate with different foods. Could you explain to me exactly what this means? And if it means that I could rotate the Pacific-Stream with another product would it be wise to use up this 5lb bag that way? How would I do that and do you have any suggestions on what food to give her?
BW

Rotating foods: is exactly that, changing foods. But one should not if all possible, make the change instantly to the new food. It should be done in a gradual manner. Start off mixing just a small portion of the new food with the old one and adjust the ratio, until it is just the new food! Some dogs stomachs can adjust instantly, while others can't and they will have loose stools! Personally, once I find a feed that I am happy with, and as long as they eat it, I don't change. Why mess with a good thing if they like it and they are healthy!! My 2 cents!!

If you rotate from one super premium to another, there should be no need to gradually change. If you are changing from a low quality food like Eukanuba, to a grain free food or one of the other rich, super premium foods, then you definitely need to do it gradually.

Sally

I had very little problem switching my dog (chi) over to Natures Variety dry and my cat to California Naturals dry and canned. I plan on starting to give the dog some of the NV canned/medallions since he is constipated alot. But I did some research, checking ingredients, and both are good food. If you email NV, they will send you a coupon for a free 5lb bag ($10 value) and that is plenty to decide if your dog likes it.

Thanks ines99 for the info on the coupon for NV, I'll have to give it a try.
Since I already bought TOTW pacific, I started my yorkie on it. I did as the lady said and am mixing it with her regular food gradually. Only problem I have is she really likes this new food and picks it out and leaves the old. No dummy here, lol. So far, no problems with her stool. I compared the pacific to other premium foods, and it seems to me it's not too bad and very comparable. But I'm no expert. I guess time will tell if her skin and coat start looking better. I will keep reading about different foods to see if there is anything better for her. Finding places that sell the 5lb bags of premium is kind of hard though.

I am new to this forum and have read this thread with much interest.

I have a male Keeshond (Casey) and a Boxer/Shepard/Chow mix (Hana). They are almost 3 and 2 1/2 respectively.

I have been feeding Purina One Natural Blends Chicken and Oatmeal. I am thinking of changing over to Innova. I am worried about over-feeding my Keesie though as he had surgery at 9 mos. for luxating patellas (both legs). Right now he eats 1/2 C twice a day. How do I make sure I don't over-feed with the new formula? It is very important that I don't let him gain alot of weight. Also, Hana sheds alot...is it possible the change in food will lessen that problem?

What kind of "cookies" are best? I have been giving Milkbones...should change those also.

I have attached a pic of my babies!!

caseykees, I couldn't find the calories/cup on the Purina web site, but you should be able to find that on the bag. When you switch to Innova (and, after reading the ingredients on Purina's "Natural" formula, I strongly recommend that you do), you'll want to compare the calories and adjust the amount you feed accordingly. Innova is a high calorie food, so you'll need to be careful with your Keeshond's weight concerns.

And, yes, the switch may very well make a difference with the shedding. Ours shed noticeably less.

can anyone enlighten me on the pet food Precise for adult less active dogs? The man at my store kept pushing it. He seems to only carry the best lines of dog food. Thanks

lgiorgi, I responded on the new thread you started, too, but just in case anyone didn't see that reply....

I'm not familiar with Precise, but here's their ingredients list (off their web site), along with my quick analysis:

Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Chicken, Ground Whole Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Ascorbyl Palmitate), Beet Pulp, Ground Oats, Flaxseed, Dried Egg Product, Fish Meal, Chicken Cartilage (source of Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate), Alfalfa, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Carrots, Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Fish Oil, Dried Cheese, Brewers Dried Yeast, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Dried Cranberries, Chamomile, Dandelion, Peppermint, Rosemary, Tumeric, Dried Lactobacillus acidophillus Fermentation Product, Dried Streptococus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, DL-Methionine, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6), Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate.

Starts off pretty well with chicken meal as the first ingredient and chicken in the first few. Has several grains (rice, barley, and oats), but they are less processed than in many foods. This means they do offer some nutritional value as opposed to simply being filler. Still I prefer grain-free foods. I'm not a fan of beet pulp (filler and unnecessary sugar). Nice to see fish meal for a little diversification of protein sources. Nice to see chicken cartilage. Nice to see chelated minerals. The rest of the ingredients are in extremely small quantities and are there for either flavoring or as vitamin and mineral supplements, so for the most part, they are of little consequence.

The only ingredient I really don't like seeing is "Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex." Most dogfood companies have removed this synthetic version of Vitamin K because of concerns over potential side effects. It has been banned in human foods due to these same side effects. A food like this one, with fish meal, alfalfa, and kelp (all natural sources of Vitamin K), does not need this potentially harmful ingredient, so it's puzzling why they still use it.

Overall, it's a decent food, but Innova is much better. And, as runsnwalken points out, Evo is even better.

Hope this helps!

When I was a kid (about 35 years ago), my dad fed the family dog all sorts of junk food. My dad fed our cocker spaniel Oreos and Fritos all the time and the dog lived to be 15. I'm not advocating this kind of diet, but it's funny the kind of foods we fed our dogs and that they did okay.

I feed my cat raw, IMO its the best possible food, but not everyone nor every cat should be on this diet,

I think its sick the way the big- box companeys do BIZ and money shouldn't be an excuse for what they do, a CHILD!! could die from ol roy and other brands of crap dog food just as easily and just as quickly as pets from the recall , I ate dog food when I was little. Gray wolves in a zoo setting have been fed Science diet, and its one of the icker brands, animals wild or domestic are very adaptable.

What about the homeless?... I'll bet they eat pet food from time to time not by choice either, we are all connected, if animals eat this food WE will somehow eat it too has been that way ever sense before people were people. It just doesn't happen as MUCH as it used to because of stricter regulations thats all.

BTW when I mean"stricter regulations", (I mean for people not pets)

I wish I could feed my basset any of those good brands of dry dog food but I can't.She eats chicken/rice meal everyday after being hospitialized twice overnight in a five month period from being dehydrated from gastritis. That was on the week-ends both times and that was a considered a emergency vet visit.Gastristis bouts are not something new for her its been going on a couple years.So since Jan its been rice/chicken with a little vegetables for fiber.I don't feel this is exactly a great diet but any changes causes problems.The vet believes she has a ulcer and is being treated for it.Before this she ate a homemade diet and has for several years due to skin allergies.She has ate nutro dry food as a treat and commercial dog treats(Iams)but any changes to commercial foods(you know how you will have bought it for awhile and then next time you buy it they have made a change,it can be the size of the nuggets or the color of the treats are brighter)well any change cause a stomach upset for her so commercial dog foods/treats are off limits for her.Debbie

I wasn't going to post the recipe since the thread seemed
to be discussing commercial pet foods. But since DebbieP already is cooking chicken and rice, and someone else also asked, I thought the recipe might be helpful. I cook double batches in 2 big steel enameled pots. The downside is time and cost. The upside is my terriers are very healthy on it.
Also, I thought it would be interesting if others respond about the nutritional content if they notice something amiss.

2 1/2 lbs ground beef (or other meat)
1 1/2 to 1 3/4 C rice, dry
1 T garlic paste
1 T wheat germ
1 T cider vinegar
1 T brewer's or nutritional yeast
1 t dried kelp
1 t bone meal
3 large carrots, grated
1/2 can green peas, mashed
1 small crown of broccoli, finely chopped
4 eggs, beaten
1/2 cup nonfat dry milk
1/2 t iodized salt
1 T flaxseed oil (add to mixture after it has cooled)

Begin by boiling the ground beef in a large pot. Add garlic. As it cooks grate and add the carrot
(A salad shooter is perfect for this job), chop and add the broccoli. Add water as
needed to prevent sticking or burning. Stir often throughout the recipe, and add water as needed.

Soak and rinse the rice several times. Add the rice and add more water. Continue to boil.

Mash and add the peas. Beat and add the eggs. Add the other ingredients. Add dry milk when cooking
is nearly finished. Add flaxseed oil when mixture is fairly cool and ready to be refrigerated.

For variation use different meat, cottage cheese, well cooked lentils, garbanzos, lima beans.
Vary the vegetable, use sweet potato, yam, spinach. Rice can be varied by
using oatmeal, other grains, etc.

Feed 2 times a day.
---------------------------------
The Vet, Dr. Fox, recommends giving a human vitamin at the rate of 1/8th tablet per 30 lbs of body weight.
I also supplement one of my dogs 125 tab of vitamin c and find it clears her runny eyes, and seems to
have healed wart-like growths on her back that my vet said were common
and not something to worry about. I suspect due to her age her liver is not producing enough
vitamin c. My 2 other terriers appear very healthy on this diet.

As I said in an earlier post, the dogs get lots of dog biscuits to keep their teeth clean.

A word about poop - Since I walk my dogs nearly every day and pick up after them (I use paper lunch bags
and pages torn from old telephone books), the diet makes their poop somewhat soft but still firm,
and moist. It doesn't smell bad, relatively speaking.

A word about breath - This diet has given my dogs a really nice breath scent.

When I analysed the recipe using Dietpower and compared it with RDA's for dogs and humans, I only found problems with
human RDA's. These were easily made up by adding spinach. Alas, my terriers have told me
they do not like spinach...

Debbiep not to be mean or rude. Maybe you should ask a friend to give you dog food money. EVO isn't too much more than neutro and STAY AWAY from Iams they do animal testing and stuff, plus a lot of pet foods have along with cancerous tissues from slaughterhouse rejects, dead dogs and cats in them, they cart off all the PTS animals that shelters and vet offices have so unless you want your hound to become dog food hamburger WITH the PTS drug inside along with the possible collar or leash! do not let the vet 'take care of it' when the time comes to part ways with your dog.

Why on earth would you want to support that anyway? Your money goes to it if you feed bad brands.

runsnwalken,

Where did debbiep say anything about money? She said her dog gets sick on anything but chicken/rice.

Been reading all posts with great interest. I am wondering why no one mentioned Canine Caviar. I can't find anything questionable on the ingredients list. Is it just sold in Alaska maybe?

My bichon is SO picky, I have to make it almost a matter of starvation for her to eat any dry food. (But I love, love, love her)