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Good Dog and Cat Food

Posted by lgiorgi (lgiorgi@optonline.net) on
Sun, Dec 30, 07 at 17:09

Hi, I usually give my golden nutru Natural chicken dry food. Sometimes I switch to the red bag and get the beef. She really likes that better. My cat eats pro Plan. When I was on line last night they said there is a lawsuit against many of the dogfood companies for putting rotten meat and ethuinzed pets in their food. Also Kitchen grease? I don't know what to do now and what to fed them. Has anyone else heard this. I know we had that pet food scare a while back. But this lists most of the ped food companies for using very bad quality food. What do you feed your dog or cat?
Lynn


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

"...they said there is a lawsuit ..."

Who exactly is "they"?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Here is a link that I was reading. It was one of many if you do a google search.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Beneful_Class_Action_Lawsuit


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

When the pet food from China was killing pets, I took my dog off commercial dog food. I know people whose animals were killed.

I have diabetes and eat whole grains, meat, veggies and fruit. I take leftover meat and smoosh the veggies & fruit into it and my dog loves it. She does like butter on her whole grain bread :). She will not be poisoned.

Years ago a weight loss specialist told me to use fat free cheese - when my dog (no longer with me) refused to eat the fat free cheese, I did some research and discovered it has petroleum in it. uggg. I went to low fat cheese and became more aware of what is in some of our food supplies.

Good luck,
Monica


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I don't follow links that are posted unless I know the person. Would you please tell me what dog food companies you are talking about?

Sammy


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

This is the lawsuit:

Premium" Pet Food Marketed and Sold as "Complete and Balanced" Has Historically Contained Such Items as Euthanized Dogs and Cats, Restaurant Grease, Hair, Hooves, and Diseased Animals, and Other Inedible Garbage

[MIAMI, FLORIDA] A cat and dog owner from Michigan and two cat and dog owners from Florida have filed a nationwide class action against food industry giants Mars, Inc., Proctor and Gamble Co., Colgate Palmolive Company, Del Monte Foods, Co., and Nestle U.S.A. Inc. These manufacturers have a combined approximate 70% of the market share in the $16 billion dollar a year pet food industry. The suit also names as Defendants Nutro Products, Inc., Menu Foods, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Target Corp., Publix Supermarkets, Inc., Winn Dixie Stores, Inc., as manufacturers and marketers of their own brand pet food and retailers PETCO Animal Supplies, Inc., Pet Supermarket, Inc., and Petsmart Inc.

The Plaintiffs maintain that these companies have spent $300 million a year in making false and misleading marketing statements regarding the contents of their pet food to the dog and cat loving American public. While these Defendants tout their pet food products as choice cuts of prime beef, chunks of chicken, fish, fresh wholesome vegetables and whole grains to induce consumers to buy them, the Plaintiffs contend the food is actually made from "inedible" slaughterhouse waste products of the human food chain such as spines, heads, tails, hooves, hair, and blood. Rendering companies who process this waste have also added other inedible "waste" such as euthanized cats and dogs from veterinarian offices and animal shelters, road kill, zoo animals, rancid restaurant grease, toxic chemicals and additives. Additionally, dead animals and those declared unfit for human consumption due to disease and illness are also placed in the mix.

The lawsuit was filed in United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida by attorney Catherine J. MacIvor of the 23 attorney Miami litigation law firm of Maltzman Foreman, PA. The case is pending before the Honorable Cecilia Altonaga. Class Counsel, Catherine J. MacIvor says that "The melamine debacle is not the only serious problem with pet food. The number and frequency of lethal pet food recalls in the last few years clearly shows the seriousness and extent of this problem."

The lawsuit alleges that pet food companies market their products as wholesome, choice cuts of meat, natural and complete and balanced diets even though they are fully aware that this food is largely carbohydrates and sugars combined with toxic preservatives and additives with very little to no meat at all. The lawsuit seeks damages to consumers for the false representations made in the Defendants' advertising as well as punitive damages.

"Sadly," MacIvor said, "the Defendant pet food companies and retailers recognized that American pet owners love their cats and dogs like members of their family. The Defendants deceptive advertising specifically marketed premium healthy food to the American public knowing that they want to buy the best food that they can for their loved one and knowing that the food consists largely of garbage, chemicals, additives, diseased meat and even residual pentobarbital from euthanized animals."

The 58 page lawsuit outlines in grotesque detail the actual manner in which most commercial pet food in the United States is made. The lawsuit also attaches and cites numerous news stories and research articles outlining the real content of the Defendant's pet foods and the misleading and deceptive advertising undertaken by the Defendants.

The Defendants targeted in the Complaint produce pet foods under a wide array of brands and names including: Pedigree, Sheba, Goodlife Recipe, Royal Canine, Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Prescription Diet, 9 Lives, Amore, Gravy Train, Kibbles-n-Bits and Nature's Recipe, Snausages, Milk Bone, Pup-Peroni, Meaty Bone, Canine's Carry Outs, Jerky Treats, Wagwells, Alpo, Beneful, Beggin' Strips, Dog, Cat, Puppy and Kitten Chow, Fancy Feast, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Deli-Cat, Pro Plan, Purina One, Natural Choice Dog and Cat Products, Max Dog Products, Max Cat Gourmet Classics, Natural Choice Complete Care for cats, UltraTM Products for dogs, Americas Choice Preferred Pets, Authority, Award, Best Choice, Big Bet, Big Red, Cadillac, Companion, Compliments, Demoulus Market Basket, Eukanuba, Fine Feline Cat, Food Lion, Food Town, Giant Companion, Hannaford, Hill Country Fare, Hy-Vee, Iams, J.E. Mondou, Laura Lynn, Li'l Red, Loving Meals, Medi-Cal, Meijer's Main Choice, Mighty Dog Pouch, Mixables, Natural Life, Nutriplan, Nutro Max, Nutro Max Gourmet Classics, Nutro Natural Choice, Ol' Roy, Paws, Pet Essentials, Pet Pride, President's Choice, Price Chopper, Priority US, Publix, Roche Brothers, Save-a-Lot Special Blend, Schnucks, Science Diet Feline Savory Cuts Cans, Sophistacat, Special Kitty, Springfield Prize, Sprout, Stop and Shop Companion, Tops Companion, Wegmans, Weis Total Pet, Western family US, White Rose, Winn Dixie, Your Pet, LIFELongTM, Ol' Roy and Special Kitty brands of pet food.

The lawsuit alleges, among other claims, that the pet food companies have fraudulently and/or negligently misrepresented and concealed what is actually in their pet foods, violated Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices, and Failed to Warn the public of the health risks to animals associated with a diet consisting of their commercial pet foods. Through the lawsuit, the Plaintiff's hope to recover financial damages for all pet owners who have been similarly deceived. "Ultimately we are hopeful that our lawsuit will force the Defendants to more accurately describe what is in their pet foods and to offer more healthful pet food options that provide pets with food quality similar to that provided in human food products."

The lawsuit says very clearly "historically" fed these items. There is no proof anywhere in any of the exhibits that these items are still being fed. In fact all of the exhibits up to the last set are in-store ads or photos of pet food bags. The last set of exhibits are FDA and other regulations regarding meat processing and rendering. Those are interesting, not only for what is allowed in pet food but what WE eat.

There is no claim in the lawsuit that pet food manufacturers are putting rotten meat, euthanized pets, etc. into pet food at this time. In fact I'm not really sure what the suit is claiming.

Max my Lab has many health problems, including heart disease, kidney disease, and joint disease, and food allergies. Therefore I consulted a veterinary nutritionist to help me formulate a homemade diet for him, which is what I give him. The other 3 eat Solid Gold Wolf King most of the time, plus I give them Wysong Achetype Buffet once weekly, plus I rotate in cooked whole foods upon occasion. I rarely give them raw food, except Ana who simply won't eat raw. Once I'm out of school, I'll be cooking for them all, but right now I simply don't have the time. I think that Solid Gold is a good food, but it is not the best option for them.

If I had cats, which unfortunately I can't because my husband is very allergic to them, I would feed thawed frozen mice and allow them to eat whatever they catch. I would also rotate in Wysong Achetype Buffet.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

So these things happened (maybe) in the past, but not now. That is why there are no statements about this on the ASPCA web site.

Sammy


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I feed a raw diet to my dogs. Google BARF, which is the acronym for Bones and Raw Foods, if you are interested in learning about it. You can also search for websites/groups that promote home made cooked diets.

Linked below is a comprehensive article about pet food. Regardless of whether pet food companies are using euthanized pets or not, the rest of the allowable ingredients and the manufacturing process do not exactly scream "healthy" to me.

Here is a link that might be useful: clicky


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

That list covers every cat food I ever used and am still using..Why hasn't this been more in the news?


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//RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Because pet food is a multi billion dollar industry, and pet owners have been brainwashed that feeding a pet a balanced diet is an intricate scientific process that owners could never grasp. Considering most of us do not have degrees in nutrition, I am not sure how we have managed to feed ourselves and our children adequately without Purina Infant Chow, Kid Chow and Adult Chow for all these years.

BTW, Iams is the sponsor of the ASPCA Pet Nutrition and Science Advisory Service. Hmmmm.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

man,that list doesn't leave much else to feed them,unless you make your own.i am caregiver to a disabled hubby and really don't always have time to prepare kibble or cat chow from scratch.isn't there some safe,reasonably priced packaged food to feed them?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

There's plenty of good foods- Wellness, Solid Gold, Chicken Soup easily come to mind.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I remember reading something about this months ago, but never heard anything more.

The brands listed are pretty much the brands that you can buy at supermarkets or Petsmart and run the gammit of middle to low end foods. I fed my cats and dogs these for years and in the spring, right before the melamine tainted food issue broke I had changed their food to higher grade. Glad I did it, because I see a difference. My dog is now feed Nature's Variety and the cat's get a rotation of Nature's Variety, Wellness, Solid Gold and Innova EVO.

The food costs more, but my dog eats less of it. My cats coats look so much better on the premium food.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I don't know anything about this lawsuit, but the practices of using rendering plant products is not new. Just as we have become more savvy about reading the labels on our own food packages, pet owners need to learn to read the labels on pet food packages. Some of the crap we feed our beloved four-legged friends is just scary.

I switched my dogs to Innova formulas a few years ago and I have had fantastic results. They look and feel so much better. I had no idea they weren't really healthy until I saw the difference. It is much more expensive, but they eat SO much less. My 220-pound Mastiff/Great Dane mix eats only four cups per day of Innova Evo. Eating less means the bag lasts longer, so it doesn't really cost that much more after all. Also, eating less means pooping less, which is an important consideration in a household with three giant breed dogs.

Here's a quick explanation of dog food ingredients that I wrote for another forum. Hope it helps:

Lots of questions about dogfoods have come up lately, so I thought Id post some basics for reading and understanding ingredients lists. There is good information out there on this topic, but there are a few tips that everyone should know that are easy to follow.

Some companies are more forthright than others in listing their ingredients, so knowing some of the basics will help you get through the list without being bamboozled or confused.

Generally, you want to read through the ingredients carefully until you get to the first fat/oil listed. Ingredients listed before this make up the bulk of the food, and those listed after are included in much smaller amounts for flavoring, preservative value, to provide trace minerals, etc. There are some key things to look for among those top ingredients.

First, dogs are carnivores, so the meat is by far the most important ingredient in your dogs food. You want to see specific animals rather than generic terms listed as the sources of protein (chicken/lamb/bison not animal/meat/poultry). "Meal" form is preferred, because it means it is weighed after the moisture has already been removed. You want to avoid foods with "byproduct" listed in the ingredients, because this pretty much means "anything left after all the stuff that is fit for human consumption has been removed."

Let me clarify . . .

chicken meal = excellent
chicken = good
poultry = bad, because it is unidentifiable
chicken byproduct = crap
poultry byproduct = unidentifiable crap
poultry byproduct meal = unidentifiable crap in concentrated form

Second, if your food contains grain (most does), you want to check for both the type and form of the grain. Rice is generally the most digestible grain. Oats and barley are also OK. Corn is the least digestible. Other than corn, wheat is the grain most likely to cause problems because many dogs are allergic. So, generally rice is best, but not all rice is the same. Like your mother told you, brown rice is healthier than white rice. "Ground" or "meal" form is fine, but stay away from other forms of processing because any nutritional value is lost. A common ingredient is "brewers rice" which simply means "the crap left over from the brewery after weve gotten anything worthwhile out of that rice." Stay away from that.

Third, anything that sounds mysterious on your list of ingredients is probably something the manufacturer doesnt want you to know about. For example, stay away from foods with "animal fat" or "animal digest"these are unidentifiable ingredients and often contain rendered animals, which can be diseased animals, animals that died before slaughter, roadkill, and euthanized pets from animal shelters. Eeeeewww!

Finally, anything that sounds like it isnt good for your dog probably isnt good for your dog. Stay away from "lard" or sweeteners (often used for flavoring). Stay away from foods with lots of grains listed among the first ingredients or several variations of the same grain listed early in the list (for example, ground rice, brewers rice, and rice flour? . . . can you say "filler"?). Also stay away from menadione (a vitamin supplement that may cause health problems).

I hope this helps. For a far more thorough and authoritative explanation, I suggest you visit http://dogfoodproject.com/ This post is really intended for those who dont have the time or inclination to sift through all the content on that site. It is definitely worth a read if you do have the time.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I have been feeding my dogs the dry Alpo for years. It was one of the only ones that was not recalled last year. I may have over looked it but I do not see it on the list above. My dogs like it and I will continue to feed it to them. One of my dogs is 12 and the other is going on 8. They may have good genes but neither has had health problems. They go in for their shots and check ups and for their frontline and heartworm meds and that is all.
I hear so much about the commercial food being bad and all but I have always used dry Alpo, and I think it is good. I haven't had problems with allergies or anything and I have had dogs all my life. I take my dogs to the vet regularly. I guess now that I have said all this the next dog I adopt will have health problems out the wazoo, but I won't blame it on the dog food, sometimes it is just in the genes.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I have fed Pedigree(or other Purina brands) dry and canned for over 30 years to all of my dogs---only having to add oil suppliments to two dogs diets for their coats. The vets I use also use those brands---along with others like Science Diet(because they sell it).

My last two dogs lived to be 20(got cancer or would have lived longer) and 15(had two strokes) and were healthy other than that.

Think about this---dogs in the wild eat whatever thay can, entire animals(including internal parts), partially decayed animals, and do just fine.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I have pretty healthy cats. I feed them a variety of foods..Always Purina ONE Salmon&Tuna and IAMs chicken or tuna, or Good Life or Purina Naturals as their dry food. Friskies or Fancy Feast for their wet. One cat lived till 21 , one last week died at 15, I have a almost 19 year old and we rarely have a sick cat. I don't feed treats except ocassionally white chicken to the old guy. None of the food I feed was on the list a few months ago, because I checked. As I recall, some of the real pricey food was.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Holligator thank you for the information. I am printing it out and hanging it next to my pets food in my pantry. I really appreciate it.

Sammy why are you so against investigating information about pet foods?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I wrote that I don't follow links that are posted unless I know the person. The word "hubpages" sounded suspicious to me. I meant no offense to you personally, but I don't know you, and cannot trust where your link will take me. Had your link been to a site I was familiar with, I would have typed it in myself -- for example, Newsweek magazine.

Sammy


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

My Great Aunt Millie, who smoked three packs a day and never seemed to eat anything that wasn't cooked in bacon grease, lived to 88 years old. No one would argue that her lifestyle was healthy based on her longevity, and no one would suggest that smoking like a chimney and eating a high-fat diet would contribute to a long life. Most would agree that she lived that long in spite of how she ate and smoked. One could also speculate that she might have reached 100 or more had she led a more healthy lifestyle--but it would only be speculation.

Certainly a dog's genetic make-up has quite a bit to do with its overall health and its longevity. But, diet can also make a very big difference. Unlike dogs in the wild, and very much like our kids, our dogs depend on us to make nutritional choices for them. Most kids would love to eat nothing but McDonald's every meal. We know this is not a healthy, balanced diet, so we don't allow it, and we make sure they eat their veggies. Likewise, although dog foods loaded with fillers and artificial flavoring taste great and our dogs love them, it's up to us to make sure that the nutritional content of what our dogs eat meets their needs.

Poor diet can contribute to a host of health problems in dogs (and cats). The rise of diabetes and pancreatitis in dogs are both due to the ingredients in dog foods. Allergies and other skin problems can usually be traced to a problem with the choice of food. With large breeds, most growth problems are a result of improper nutrition. Obesity in dogs is becoming a huge problem--one that leads to many other health problems. So, yes, many dogs do fine despite having poor nutrition, but many other dogs have health problems due to poor nutrition. It only makes sense to prevent these problems, since it's such an easy thing to do.

Dogs are carnivores by nature. They aren't obligate carnivores like cats, meaning they do eat foods other than meat, but it should be in very small quantities. For example, a dog in the wild while eating a rabbit, would ingest the rabbit's stomach contents, but most of the meal would consist of meat, bone, and organs. Yes, dogs in the wild will eat whatever they can find, but that is out of necessity, not choice. Given the choice between eating a dead animal that had been healthy and a dead animal that was diseased, a dog would always choose the healthy one. We do need to be careful about making too many comparisons with "wild" dogs, though. Dogs in the wild typically have extremely short lifespans--not something we would wish for our pets.

This doesn't mean that we have to feed our dogs the most expensive, all-organic kibble to ensure good health. It does mean, however, that we should put as much thought into the nutritional quality of our dogs' diets as we put into our own. They depend on us to do this.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

None of the food I feed was on the list a few months ago, because I checked. As I recall, some of the real pricey food was.

The 'pricey food' that was on the recall list was Nutro Natural Choice and one variety of Natural Balance. None of the premium brands - ie: Wellness, Solid Gold, Innova, etc., were. They don't use rice or corn gluten to push up the protein levels.

I honestly though my dogs and cats were doing fine on the lower grades of food until I started to research it and changed them over. With the difference I see, I would never go back to a supermarket brand.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I think most of us feed our pets from experience and advice from the vets and so on. I have had cats all my life and now have a 16 yr. old and a 2 yr. old spayed females. I feed them some wet food twice a day and offer them a dry Purina "indoor formula" all the time. I used to offer them Iams and they became very heavy.....I read the side of the Iams bag and the fat content was way more than other dry cat food so I switched and they have lost weight and are much more active! Just my experience; hope it can help someone!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I think most of us feed our pets from experience and advice from the vets and so on.

Good point! I think it's important to know that veterinarians typically know very little about nutrition. The curricula at accredited Vet schools in the US include a single course on animal nutrition, and it includes all species they might encounter, from cattle to birds and snakes, so little time is spent on canine and feline nutrition.

Seminars are offered by pet food companies (Hills/Science Diet is the main company offering these), so the information provided in those is undeniably biased. These seminars, combined with the financial incentives, are the main reason you see so many vets recommending and selling Science Diet products.

So, if a veterinarian wants to know more, he or she must either specialize in nutrition and take additional coursework (hardly any do this) or rely on the information available to the rest of us. My own vet is graduated at the top of her class from one of the best vet schools in the country and, still, she readily admits her deficiencies in her knowledge about nutrition. I have found that most vets I've spoken with about nutrition are more insecure than she is and will pretend to know more than they do.

Regulation of the pet food industry is almost non-existent. AAFCO does little more than make labeling practices more standardized. The FDA's CVM is limited to investigating problems (such as the recent recalls). Companies are left to police themselves with regard to the quality of their ingredients. The smaller companies tend to have more at stake, so they tend to be more cautious. The bigger companies are better able to rebound from bad press through their extensive marketing budgets. With the money some companies spend on advertising, there's no way they can offer food with high quality ingredients at low prices.

Sorry to practically hijack this thread with so many posts, but this is a topic I have spent a ton of time researching.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

i've always fed my cats and dogs purina brands supplemented with canned alpo[9 lives for cats]and i also cook for them.ground beef,pork chops,and chicken;also feed them all leftovers.cats also get salmon.they've always been healthy,but i'm wondering if they'd be healthier if i fed them a pricier food.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

It isn't a matter of pricier food, it's food that has better ingredients. Chicken Soup is a very good food and is not much more expensive then poorer quality food. You also feed less of the better quality food. My GSD was eating 3 cups a day of Nutro, which is a decent food and is eating 2 cups a day of Nature's Variety. The difference in the amount fed would have been greater if she had gone from a supermarket brand to a quality brand.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Exactly, it's the quality of the ingredients that's important. Plus, the difference in amount fed can be dramatic, so the price difference may even be a wash.

We adopted my 220-pound mastiff/dane mix at age 5.5, and he was on a diet of regular Purina Dog Chow. He was eating 15 cups per day (yes, you read that right--15 cups!). His poops were mountains in the back yard that required daily scooping. His coat was dull, his skin was flaky, and his energy level was really, really low. He now eats Innova Evo, which has far better quality ingredients and almost no filler at all. He only eats 4 cups per day now (he was eating about 5 cups, but he kept gaining weight). Without all the fillers, his body uses most of the food, so his poops are as small as my neighbor's beagle mix, and they dry up and disintegrate in two days, so no more scooping is required. His skin is in great shape, his coat is super shiny, and he hardly sheds at all. Best of all, after three years on Evo, at age 8.5 (very senior for a giant breed), his energy level is like a puppy. He runs and twirls and obviously feels just great.


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To everyone, I am so glad we had this discussion. I went this afternoon and brought innova. Sydney still didn't eat it but she will when she gets hungry. I feel I can go to sleep tonight with a clear conscious that I am not feeding her my past pets. The write ups were shocking. I kept searching and reading. I was going to get the evo. Should I get that the next time? Sydney is a 4 years old female golden retriever. I sure do feel better that I also don't have to make my own food for my animals. What cat food should I use. Oliver is a 3 year old Ragdoll, about 20 pounds. He is a beauty. I hope the new food I eventually get will control his shedding.
Thanks all,
Lynn


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I'm glad you've changed foods. It's best to mix a little of the new in with the old and adapt her gradually to the new food.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

"What cat food should I use. Oliver is a 3 year old Ragdoll, about 20 pounds. He is a beauty."

Post a picture!

We have switched to Wellness Core dry and grain-free canned. We are happy with the results. Our three cats' coats have improved noticeably, but I sure wouldn't say they've stopped shedding. I'm thinking of checking into the Dermacaps mentioned in another thread.


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thank you

holligator,

Thank you for the extremely informative and readable posts.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

"I was going to get the evo. Should I get that the next time? "

Regular Innova is a great food, and some dogs do even better on that than on Evo. I have had fantastic results with regular Innova Adult dry. We foster a lot of dogs in rescue, and they come here eating a variety of diets. We switch them all cold turkey over to the Innova Adult formula, and they all do great. Not a runny poop in the bunch! They always leave us looking and feeling better than when they arrived. If your dog does well on regular Innova, there's no real reason to change.

The main advantage to Evo is that it is grain free, which for dogs with allergy or yeast problems is a HUGE plus. It also means you don't have to worry about the issues we've been having with recalls of products with corn, wheat, or rice gluten. That said, Evo is very rich, and some dogs have trouble making the adjustment, since their bodies are used to processing so many fillers. Evo is also not appropriate for large or giant breed puppies or for dogs with kidney problems, because the protein levels are too high.

There are a lot of other great brands out there, too. Orijen, Wellness Core, Solid Gold Barking at the Moon, etc., are also grain free. Flint River, Canidae, Karma, Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul, Eagle Pack Holistic, and Merrick are just a few of the other good brands.

Good luck with your switch to a healthier diet for your pups!


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Thanks

susanjn, thanks for the complement. I have a hard time talking about this stuff without coming across as preachy. It has become a real soap box issue for me. I just feel like we have all been bamboozled for so many years by the huge dog food companies into thinking that their foods are "high quality." Many very well known brands have so many fillers that we may as well be feeding our dogs saw dust. Most people, once they understand what is actually in those foods, can't in good conscience keep feeding them. Even the issue of cost isn't a good reason any more. The difference in amounts fed usually makes up for, or comes close to making up for, the difference in cost.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Some manufacturers have used sawdust as an ingredient.

" Another meat by-product is sawdust from the floor of the packing house. The sawdust on the floors of a butchering plant catches the blood and viscera during the butchering process and keeps the floors from getting slippery. Therefore, the blood soaked sawdust has become a meat by-product. "


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I fed my Ragdoll Wellness. She preferred the Salmon dry food and the chicken wet food. My new kitten (another Ragdoll) is eating Wellness wet food and I am currently switching him from Iams/Eukanuba mix (the breeder's choice)to Wellness dry.

I have a friend who works for Wellness and I believe they are a great company with a great product. They honestly CARE about your pets.

One thing to be aware of is that you should not suddenly switch food. Fill a container is 2/3 current dry food and 1/3 Wellness. When the container is close to empty fill it with 1/2 and 1/2. The 1/3 old and 2/3 Wellness. Then 100% Wellness. When I do it, it takes about 3 weeks. Sudden switching can upset a pet's stomach and lead the owner to believe the food is the issue.

Yes, some pets can handle the sudden switch, others cannot. You are switching them from a junk food diet to a healthy diet. If you did that suddenly with anyone they might have issues.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

i've started making my own pet food. i've got two dogs,,one of whom is allergic to everything it seems. plus we've got five indoor cats and two ferals in the barn.
we've been buyingcanned mackeral,,a dark and oily fish,for about 99 cents a 1 lb can. i throw a can plus a can of warm water and dinovite vitamins in a glass blender,and pour the remaining disgusting mess over some california natural kibble. all of the animals love it,,coats are shiny and stools small and not too smelly.
i think this is working well for us,,and we've tried every expensive premade food out there over the years. we didn't care for the prep of the barf diet,this seems easier to me.
btw,,it's really important to use a glass or dedicated plastic blender,the smell of the mackeral lasts and lasts in plastic. don't ask me how i know...


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I've been feeding my dogs Nutro Natural Choice for the past five years because it is the only brand I could find that made "lite" food out of lambmeal and rice. The lamb helps keep their coats healthy while the low-fat formula helps me in my efforts to control their weight, a big health issue with corgis, and lets me continue to treat them with their favorite food--raw beef bones (carefully selected for safety, of course).

I'd hate to think I have to change foods. What kind of proof do these plaintifs have? Especially against these specific companies, which looks like laundry list of deep pockets. From what I read above, it doesn't sound like much.

I've always known that rendered animal protein made its way into some commercial dog foods. That's why I've always avoided buying dogfood with any mysterious-sounding ingredients. My sister worked for an animal clinic back in the 1980s. They put unclaimed remains in a freezer and periodically a company came and collected the animals deposited in the freezer.

When my beloved bitc---sorry female dog, Maddie, died overnight at the hospital last November, I picked her up and gave her a proper burial. The hospital, the best and most reputable in my area, did, of course, give me the option of leaving the remains for them to dispose of....


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Corgicamp, I don't know about the lawsuit, but I do have a few suggestions related to the food you're feeding, if you're interested. You didn't ask for suggestions, so feel free to ignore this!

First, something to consider when it comes to feeding exclusively lamb is that lamb contains higher levels of some mineral (copper, I believe) that can cause liver damage through exposure over several years. Lamb every now and then is fine, but I would not limit my dogs to a lamb-only diet. The raw beef bones are a great addition, but if I were you, I'd try to either add more variety or find another primary protein source.

Lamb was introduced on the market as a tool for helping vets determine the source of food allergies. Because most dogs had never been exposed to lamb, it was a novel protein, and a food with only lamb protein was, therefore, not an allergen for many dogs. People caught onto this and decided that lamb was a "hypo-allergenic" diet and it became an extremely popular dog food ingredient. There are plenty of other high quality protein sources to choose from that don't have the dangerous mineral levels. And, because most dogs have been exposed to lamb now, it doesn't even provide that benefit any more. More and more unusual proteins are being introduced in dog foods (e.g., bison, venison, kangaroo, herring), and pretty soon, we'll have nothing that's a novel protein.

Nutro Natural Choice is way better than a lot of foods out there, but there are also many foods better than Nutro. My main gripe with Nutro is that it is so packed with fillers. The "lite" formula, in particular, is mostly rice. The first ingredients are "Rice Flour, Lamb Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Bran, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Powdered Fiber, Natural Flavors, Soybean Oil"--three forms of rice and two other fillers. "Powdered Fiber" makes me especially suspicious (I think "sawdust" when I see something so generic as that). Anyway, the main thing is that there is only a very small percentage of this food devoted to the thing your dog needs most: meat. Even a lot of cheaper foods have enough meat to list it as the first ingredient.

The other thing I don't like about it is that it contains menadione (a synthetic vitamin K). Many dog food companies have removed menadione from their formulas because of some very dangerous potential side effects. I avoid this ingredient altogether.

As for the "lite" aspect of this food, I have had much better results getting weight down with careful portion control than with low-fat formulas. My dogs eat tiny portions, but they are full because their food has no fillers. Think about the difference between eating a cup of shredded lettuce or a cup of shredded cheese. Yes, the cheese has more fat, but you are full when you are finished. With the lettuce, you'd need to eat 10 cups to feel as full. At 220 pounds, my dane/mastiff mix only eats 4 cups of food per day. Also, see my post in the thread about the cat on a diet to see why I don't trust any "lite" pet food formula.

Anyway, I hope this is useful information for you. My best friend when I was a kid had corgis, so I adore them. :)


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Honestly I don't think Chicken Soup deserves to be in the same category as Innova, Eagle Holistic and some of the other really good foods mentioned here. It's better than a lot of foods out there but I wouldn't call it one of the best. When a manufacturer buys ingedients for their foods there are several different grades they can choose from. Anywhere from 3D( dead,dieseased,dying) to top quality. It's still all chicken, beef or what have you but there is a large difference in the price paid for it and the quality of the ingredients. It is also made by Diamond whose products are pretty much mid grade. The price is another reason I'm not convinced, If they can make a truely superior food and sell it for that price then why can't the other companies do the same. When we first started carrying it where I used to work one of the talking points was you can get a better mark up on it. Like I said I think it's better that a lot but I'm just not convinced it's top quality

Lisa


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Lisa, you're right that Innova is better, but I would not distinguish between Chicken Soup and Eagle Pack Holistic. They are both good foods. Yes, there is no comparison with foods like Orijen or Evo, because those are grain free. They are simply in a league of their own. Among the foods with grain, there are some that I prefer (e.g., Innova Adult) due to fewer artificial or otherwise problematic ingredients, but many others (including those mentioned) are quite comparable.

There are no reliable measures or standards in place to know what grade of ingredients a manufacturer is using. Even those that claim to use "human grade" ingredients probably actually use ingredients that neither you nor I would ingest. That said, we can tell some things by what's listed on the ingredients label, even if we can't tell the quality. We know what chicken is, and we know that chicken meal is just chicken with the moisture removed. We really don't know what chicken by-products and poultry by-products are. There are so many things that are allowed to be included as "by-products" that it's hard to discern the nutritional value of a product that uses them. By-products made of intestines and organ meat are far more nutrient rich than those made of chicken heads and feet. There's no way to distinguish these on a label, so it's best to avoid them altogether.

Back to Chicken Soup. The adult formula lists these as the first ingredients: Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, chicken fat. Too much grain to be considered a "great" food, but a lot of decent protein sources, two of them in meal form, and all listed before the grains. The comparable Eagle Pack Holistic formula lists these first ingredients: Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Oatmeal, Chicken Fat. Although EP uses somewhat better grains, there are still too many of them in my opinion. Proportionately, the two foods have similar breakdowns of meat vs. grain, with Chicken Soup coming out a little ahead. They both have a few ingredients I prefer not to see (e.g., flaxseed, pomaces), but overall, they are very good foods and very similar in many ways.

One big advantage that CS has is its price. It is much less expensive than EP, and it is much, much better than other foods at comparable prices (e.g., Iams, Science Diet). If someone is limited to foods in that price range, I would much rather see them feed CS than Science Diet or Eukanuba. Unlike other foods in the same quality range as CS, it can rely more on volume sales to keep prices down. It gets similar name recognition as Iams and SD because of the Chicken Soup books, so it can spend more money making decent food, rather than the huge amounts those others spend on marketing.

I hope this makes sense.

Holly


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Makes perfect sense. Like I said I just hate to see it put in the same category as Innova and the like because it's just not as good but it's way better than Science Diet and the like but if someone is trying to feed better and watching their pennies then I'd go for it. Are you familiar with Timberwolf Organics? I've been using that as training treats and am thinking about swiching to that as a primary food.

Lisa


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Timberwolf is a great food! They changed their formula not that long ago, and I was a little disappointed, because I actually liked the previous ingredients somewhat better. It is still very good stuff, though. What would you be switching from?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I've used Eagle for years. For a long long time it was the best you could easily get around here. I've tried Wellness and the dogs didn't eat it well plus it had to be special ordered so that was a pain, sometimes it took a while to get it. We've had a store open tho that does carry the better foods and I tried a small bag of the Timberwolf and Jerri is nuts about it. I've been using it for training treats but after she finished the current bag of puppy food she'll be ready to go to adult so I thought I'd change then.

Lisa


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Many of the owners in my Dog Training School use Wellness. I have switched to it, and feel that my dogs are healthier, and that they get more nutrition than on the Science Diet. I hear many good arguements for that brand, but this is a subject that I have not researched much.

Sammy


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Wellness seems to be one of those foods that dogs either do really well or really terribly on. I know some people who swear by it and others who say it caused runny poops. The amount of grain and fillers in it is a bit much for my preferences.

And, yes, Sammy, Wellness is MUCH better than Science Diet.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Stay away from Meat "by products" corn, wheat these things are fillers or junk meats- remember the more you spend on dog food, the less you will have to feed your dog and the healthier it will be - plus you have to pick up after them less, since they are eating less and their bodies are processing more food. My dog is on a high protein diet. I have always given him Natural Balance dog meat sticks, dog kibble and dog food. He also likes Trader Joes dog food mixed with hamburger from Costco.....I feed him three to four times a day - smaller meals more frequently....he is 8 and hardly has any gray hairs.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Some of those high protein foods is overkill.
I know Innova and timberwolf are favored by those who do agility but for the ordinary housepet, it's like putting jet fuel in a minivan.

I'm extremely disappointed that even with the whole mess of recalls in '07, the store shelves are still lined with bags of $#!% and people continue to buy it. The cost of decent food is not becoming any easier to find. I am lucky to find ONE bag of wellness in the whole city. I will be even luckier if it is not torn! The price of the wellness has gone up about $1.00 per month for me. Now is about $57 with tax. That is only for a 30lb bag!
The dogs have done well on it but they are too energetic after eating it. Much more so than with Solid Gold which they were previously on. I really liked solid gold. It was relatively easy to get at PETCO, it was a reasonable price, about $1/lb, can in a vacuum packed mylar bag that are impossible to open much less rip, and the kibbles are not all greasy and they don't smell foul like most kibble does.
Unfortunately one of the dogs didn't do so well on solid gold so I switched both to wellness because it was more convenient to feed the same thing. And the other dog likes the wellness better.

If it weren't for this I'd be feeding solid gold instead of wellness. I know that is not a comment you commonly hear. Usually it's the other way around.

Anyway every shipping company has just raised their rates effective 1/8 so buckle your seatbelts, it's going to get on average 5% more expensive to feed these foods shipped by ground in small quantities to boutiques or sold over the internet.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

We are lucky in that we have a well-stocked boutique pet food/supply store very nearby. We have been feeding our new kitties Blue Buffalo dry food (about a cup each per day) plus a few teaspoons of assorted wet food once a day (Weruva is one brand, but I'm trying a few others so they don't get addicted to one type). These foods are a bit more expensive than the stuff you get at the grocery store, but the ingredients are much better, and our cats seem to like all of it. Our girl is more interested in people food than our boy -- she will jump up on the table or counter and do some sampling if we don't watch her, but he is content to eat the cat food.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

The price of the wellness has gone up about $1.00 per month for me. Now is about $57 with tax. That is only for a 30lb bag!

Quirky where are you buying dog food. My local store sells 30 lb of Wellness for $43. Heck, even Core is only $45. My dog eats Nature's Variety Instinct. Yes, its more than she needs but she loves it and does well. Even that I'm paying about $44 for 30 lbs, and the store always has coupons.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I feed my dog Solid Gold,,it's dry and comes in different formulas but it's a great real quality food. Very happy with it.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

What a great thread. Holly, your post prompted me to get my printer working again so I can take shopping with me and have some idea what I'm buying.

We just adopted my deceased SIL's 8 yr. old border collie mix. From the looks of the food we found there (no bag) it looks like Nature Life. Dog doesn't seem to like it much, but don't want to switch too fast so I bought another bag.

We fed our dogs Joy Special Meal or Chunks for years--vet said thats what she used too. Now that I've read ingredients with "new eyes" I'm less enthused about it, although they were healthy and energetic into old age. Lab hunted until she died the following summer at 18. But then again, if I remember correctly, she was 70 lb. and eating 3-4 cups daily. Sandy


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I pay $42 for a 30 pound bag of Wellness.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Do you pay that price online and if so how much is shipping?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Some manufaturers offer free shipping. Merrick does on any order and Timberwolf does on orders over $15. Timberwolf also has some formulas that are not super high in protein, the one Jerri likes is not.I think it will actually work out cheaper for me to ship it instead of buy it locally. The very high protein formulas like Evo kind of make me hesitate too.

Lisa


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I buy it at the local Saluda River pet store.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Dobesrule, I checked out timberwolf's site and even if they do have free shipping the price of their 33# bag starts at $56.xx

For example, Nutrient Dense Lamb, Barley and Apples Canid Formula 33lbs/15kg is $61.19 for a 33lb bag.

I would however wind up with an extra 3 lbs of food and it looks like it comes in those vacuum packed indestructible bags. On the other hand it makes me nervous when the only place I can get dog food is online since I tend to wait until the last minute.

Bumblebeez, I will check with the saluda river store to see if they will ship it because shipping from greenville wouldn't be that bad and I wouldn't have to pay sales tax.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I wouldn't call Merricks delivery free! I pay $48 for a 30lb bag at my store,and its $62.85 online! Anna (dog) loves it!!

Anyone have any info on Blue Buffalo cat food?? Gave it to my cats for awhile, they seemed to enjoy it. Used to always feed them fellidae but they grew tired of it! As well any info on taste of the wild cat food? Suppose to be all natural, no grains. Found some info on Blue Buffalo and taste of the wild on the net, but not much.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

The wellness website shows that pet supermarket carries wellness. I just got off the phone with them and they have a bunch in stock for $43.99
The store is really out of the way but if we go to one of the dog parks we go to then it is near that.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Sign up for email from Wellness also. I get coupons from them. At Christmas they sent out a five dollar off coupon and earlier in the summer a ten dollar one.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

What does everyone think of Canidae? This is what my puppy was eating when we got him. We have continued to feed him the Canidae dry. How does this food compare?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I have fed my dogs canidae in the past with great results! I was feeding it to my current dog, but decided to change things up!! But it does have top notch ingredients. With talking to a store owner --all he sells is the top end foods-- He considered it a very good feed.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Very long but very interesting and horrifying article about pet foods.

Here is a link that might be useful: Get the facts


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

hi, I like 'solid gold barking at the moon' but where I live it is $2 a lb!!!!!!!!! 15 lb bag $30!!!! I have used canadae, some of my dogs dont care for it. just got some evo by innova. think they all like it, but too high protien for little pups. Innova, with the shipping and handling, turned out to be around $1.17 per lb, which is still very expensive. I am trying to find something that I can slowly cook less and less for them. Dont mind cooking, but with 5 dogs it's alot. And expensive. I also go to Walmart and get the 5lb rolls of cheap hamburg for $6. and also the 10lb bags of leg quarters for .43 cents per lb. This is on par with canned dog food, and sometimes cheaper, except that I cook it, and debone it. In nice weather I like to feed raw, but in winter there is no place for raw chewing. Not in kitchen, and outside it's usually to snowy, icy, cold.
Sherry


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Interesting article but I can find several debatable subjects in it. I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to prepare fresh meals from scratch for their pets seeing as how most of America relies on the multinational junk food conglomerates to feed our own selves with unhealthy garbage.

You have to start somewhere, but they haven't even improved ingredients.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

My family has always fed our dogs a mix of cooked and commercial food. In the past it was rice and chicken (or other meat) mixed with dry foods. Since the pet food scare I started feeding my terriers based on the recipe by Veterinarian Dr. Michael Fox, and Vita Bone dog biscuits, plus occasional tiny portions of table snacks and veggies for treats. The recipe is available online. I can post it if needed. I make 2 batches of the recipe and it lasts my 3 terriers about a week.

The other day I was cooking a batch of dog food and decided to analyze the nutrient content. I used a program called Dietpower which allows you to enter recipe ingredients. The program then shows a nutrient profile for the recipe. I also went online and checked on RDA's for dogs. I was happy to find the recipe supplied the RDA's. It is basically 1/3 protein, 1/3 fat, and 1/3 carbs. The recipe recommends varying the ingredients to help insure getting all the micro nutrients. The Dietpower program indicated a human could easily live on this diet with added vitamin c & d.

RDA's for dogs is pretty interesting because some of the nutrient requirements haven't been studied all that much.

Since putting my dogs on this diet I've noted they seem to be healthier. Their coats are shinier, etc. and their moods have been much happier and loving.

The drawbacks are the prep, obviously, and that you feed at least twice a day, which could be a problem for some people. It's also more expensive than dry or canned.

I'm very happy with the results so my pet food purchases will be limited to dog biscuits (too much work to make at home, imho).
-Hal


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Please post the recipe hal lets take a look at what is involved in cooking a meal for your pets.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

daggett, Canidae is a very good food. I know a lot of people who have fed this for a long time with great results.

sherryinmaine, a couple of things about Innova Evo... You mentioned that it has too high protein for puppies. That is true, if you are talking about a giant breed pup, whose growth rate needs to be carefully regulated. Most other size dogs would do fine on it. Also, be careful comparing foods on a price-per-pound basis. The amount of food fed per meal varies considerably from brand to brand, based on the ingredients. A food with fewer fillers will be served in much smaller amounts. That is, if one food costs $1 per pound and you feed 1 pound per day, and another food is $2 per pound, but you only feed one third pound per day, the food that costs more per pound is actually far less expensive to feed. Perhaps a price-per-meal or price-per-day comparison would be a more valid way to judge how expensive a food is.

quirky, I disagree with the idea that foods like Innova and Timberwolf are overkill with ordinary house pets. It's not like the ingredients are supercharged or something, it's just that the unnecessary ones have been taken out and only the useful ones are left. My big guy (dane/mastiff mix) is a lazy slug of a dog, and he always has been, but in relative terms, he has much more energy now than when he was on a different food. He also poops SUBSTANTIALLY less, which is a very important consideration with a pup this big. :)


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

holligater, thanks for the warning about the copper. I was originally advised to go with the lambmeal and rice because one of my dogs was having a skin problems with the chicken formulas I tried. I needed a low-fat food because she had a tendency toward obesity as do most corgis. To keep weight off, I had her down to about half a cup a day. She would look at me so reproachfully when she saw her bowl so empty that I stretched out her kibble with thawed greenbeans. Without the greenbeans, she had so little to eliminate that she had a hard time pushing it out past her fluffy white butt. I blame it on those thrifty Welsh farmers who must have bred their dogs for efficiency. It seems that I have the opposite problem with poop that you do.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Hi all, I am the original originator of the question. I put my dog on Nova and she looks like she got fat. She is so wide now. She is only eating it about 3 weeks. The bag said 3 cups but I never feed her that much. I gave her 1 1/2 cups and she eats veggies. Do you think the food has a lot of calories. Now she has the same problem as her owner.Should I put her on the weight maintenance if they have it?
Lynn


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I always enjoy reading about what others feed their pets, it's so interesting and I always learn something! That said, we feed our 3-year-old rough collie Canidae dry (the all life stage formula) and she does super on it. She is 50 lbs so she gets 1 cup in the a.m. and 1 cup in the p.m. Her weight is stable and her coat is drop-dead gorgeous. Her stools are firm and seem quite appropriate, "quantity-wise," as far as poop goes!

When we first got her as a 14-week pup from the shelter, we started her on Nutro until she was about a year and we (and she) liked it well enough, but ultimately opted to move to Canidae because we wanted to give her something we felt strongly about, nutrition-wise, and haven't found a need to change since then.

(As an aside, we feed our cats Royal Canin dry kibble (the indoor formula) and Felidae wet (only on occasion, not regularly) and they all do well. Their weights are stable on it and they love their mealtime. Our male could be in a commercial, he does those silly circles around and around until his bowl is set down - so cute.)

fivemonkeys


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

We use Wellness, and I give mine one cup twice a day. If you think the dog is large, I think you should cut back on the food until you think it is healthy.
Sammy


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Great thread, although rather disturbing at times to think about what I may have been putting in my dog's bodies in the past! :-(

Any thoughts on AvoDerm? We feed our 5 year old German Shepherd the lamb & rice.

Also, just got a new Samoyed puppy. Any suggestions there?


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Woohoo, I just went to my favorite pet boutique, and they have both Wellness & Canidae! I bought a 5 lb bag of Canidae for $8.50 to try out, as my sheltie likes treat-dispensing puzzle toys, and I thought Canidae would be better for my carpet than green beans and spinach (part of her usual meal). She had been eating Nutro Ultra before I got her (her long coat looked awful), and I got a free bag of it when I adopted her, but I only give it to her as a treat. It's not on the Whole Dog Journal's list, so goodbye Nutro, hello Canidae!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I admit, I've been avoiding really reading this thread because I thought my furbabies were just fine on their current food (Nutro Natural Lamb & Rice) but after reading through and doing a little extra research I can't believe all the filler crap that is in their food! The news about bad amounts of copper being in the lamb is really troublesome too!

I saw a big (good) change in my BC's coat when I changed her over from Purina to Nutro which encouraged me not to change, but after all this I'm going to try Canidae. I like the meat content of the Innova Evo, but since my other dog is only 6 mo old it sounds like it's best to wait on that until I can switch them both over. The way they are going through their current bag of Nutro I think I can start switching them over ASAP.

I'm linking a website that has a lot of really great reviews on dog food. It helped me make my choice - maybe it can help others! :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Dog Food Reviews


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

When my dogs were on nutro, their poop was very soft and hard to pick up. Also one had digestive issues and was either throwing up or having diarrhea all the time. They got switched to Canaidae. Poops are firm and hard and they are doing well.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

lgiorgi, you said "I put my dog on Nova and she looks like she got fat." I am not familiar with Nova, so I did a Google search and came up with the "Nova Foods Fitness Trainer" line. Is that what you switched to? If so, I would recommend switching back to whatever you were feeding, because almost anything would be better. The main ingredient in that brand of food is corn, one of the worst ingredients of all. I will, however, assume that if you switched because of this thread you would not have chosen that food. Perhaps you meant "Innova" instead of "Nova"? If so, that would make much more sense. Innova food is extremely calorie dense. Before my Great Dane mix puppy was old enough to switch to Evo, we fed her regular Innova Adult formula. At 100 pounds, she only ate about 2 or 2.5 cups per day. If your dog is smaller than she was, less food would be appropriate. I have recommended Innova to several friends who had underweight dogs, and it solved the problem quickly. You have to be very, very careful with portion control on Innova.

No matter what you're feeding, if your dog starts to look fat, you need to adjust the portion. With my dogs, I use plastic cups as scoops, and I've found that something as simple as filling the cup to the ridge a quarter inch from the top of the cup instead of all the way to the top can make the difference between pudgy and trim pups. I would strongly suggest going the portion-control route instead of the "low-fat" formula route. Diet formulas are simply alterations of the main formula and, in most cases, have not been through any real testing to determine whether they are still "balanced" diets after the fattening ingredients have been removed. I had a problem with this with a cat who died because of a low-fat food I had him on. It affected his taurine absorption, which led to heart problems. So, if your dog gets chunky, feed less.

jmzms, don't feel bad about what you have fed your dog in the past. We were all bamboozled by the skillful marketing of the big dogfood companies for years. It's what you feed now that you know better that matters. You asked, "Any thoughts on AvoDerm? We feed our 5 year old German Shepherd the lamb & rice." I have heard of AvoDerm, but I had never checked it out for myself, so I went to their web site to check out their ingredients list. Here are the first ingredients in the lamb and rice formula: Lamb Meal, Ground Whole Brown Rice, Ground Whole Rice, Oatmeal, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Ascorbic Acid). Looking at all the ingredients listed before the first fat source gives you a good indication of what the vast majority of the food is made of (pretty much everything after this is there to add flavor or vitamins/minerals). The thing that jumps out at me on that ingredients list is the old trick of listing several forms of the same ingredient (Ground Whole Brown Rice, Ground Whole Rice, Rice Bran). It's quite likely that, combined, this means there is more rice (i.e., FILLER) than meat in the food. That, in addition to the concerns explained earlier in the thread about the high copper content in lamb, makes me a little leery of this food. Overall, the other ingredients look fine and there doesn't seem to be anything harmful, but I suspect you could find something much better for the same price.

moonbyte5, thanks for providing the link to the dogfoodanalysis.com site. That's a really good place to start to see where your food ranks, and it's one I refer to frequently. I will say that their review process is a bit simplistic and ignores some important issues about certain ingredients. That said, it does provide easy-to-read and unbiased reporting of what is in foods. It's hard to tell any more who we can trust. I have even been surprised by the quality of some of the foods included on the list put out by "Whole Dog Journal." I am really puzzled how some foods get on that list.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

This has been a very informative thread.I just wish I had read it 3 days ago! I have a Chihuahua that is 6 months old.I actually think she is a mixed breed.The kid we got her from had her advertised a "Teacup" Chihuahua but I think she is actually a Coffee Mug size.LOL anyway,when we got her I started feeding her the same brand of food that I have been feeding my other older Chihuahuas for years,(PMI Nutrition) only in the puppy formula.She fattened up and her coat is sleek and shinny and she has all kinds of energy but from the beginning she has had gas reeealy bad and really stinkie poop.I thought it might be from the fact that she was not well cared for and had worms when I got her at about 8 weeks of age and a new diet may have upset her a bit and that she might possibly just outgrow it.In spite of improving her health she still was gassie and stinkie.LOL Poops are always firm though,no diarrhea. So I decided last week that maybe if I changed her food it would improve the problem.I bought Iams puppy formula but after reading all the posts I think I shouldn't have!LOL She is actually DH's baby and he is the one who feeds her and walks her.I told him to start mixing the food with her other food and gradually wean her off the old stuff but you know how men can be sometimes! He just started feeding her the new food,cold turkey.I told him he could clean up the messes if there were any.Luckily she has adapted to it very well.I don't know about the smelly poops because he takes her out but she doesn't seem to be quite as gassy.I was thinking maybe she was allergic to the corn in the PMI but the Iams also has corn,and they both have those dreaded chicken by products! As I said,my other two Chihuahuas are on the PMI but have never had a problem like the one with the puppy. They are and always have been healthy.One is 11 years old and her daughter is almost 10.They act like much younger dogs and are in very good shape with sleek shinny coats,and as Holligator mentioned the poop dries up and disintegrates quickly.I hadn't planned to change their food but after reading all the information here I may consider it.I'm off to check out some of the brands everyone is using.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Someone way earlier in this thread said they had switched their dog to EVO, and wondered what to feed their cats. EVO makes cat food, also.

I feed my cats Healthwise dry food, which is the low end of Natura's (the makers of Innova and EVO) line of pet foods. It's still a very good food. I feed that to them because they like it better, and will eat it. I do occasionally get them Innova or EVO, but they leave a lot of kibble in their plates, uneaten. I also feed them the Eagle Pack canned food. Again, it's what they like the best. I have in the past fed them Eagle Pack Holistic, and Solid Gold, but they got to where they just wouldn't eat those foods. I've tried them on Wellness, and they really didn't like that. (Can you tell it's cats I'm trying to feed?) There's actually one of my 7 cats that will eat anything we put in front of her, as long as it's food, but the others are a bit more picky.

Their coats are very shiny, and when I took one of them into the vet recently for her shots, the vet said she wished all "her" kitties were this healthy. My niece and a friend of hers came by to visit recently, and her friend was amazed at how good their coats look. I'm so used to their coats, I hadn't really thought about whether they were good coats or not. (except I do have one short haired cat whose coat feels like rabbit fur, it's so thick and soft.) I guess I'd have to see a cat that ate grocery store food to compare.

I work for a place that sells some of the brands I mentioned. I had a customer give a testamonial about the Innova. He adopted a long haired dog, a Sheltie if I remember correctly, that was a rescue situation. The dog's coat was a mess, he was fat, and his skin was bad. The previous owners fed him grocery store treats, such as snausages, as his primary diet, along with table scraps. Anyway, when the man first adopted the dog, he took him to the groomer to clean up the coat. The dog's coat was so bad the groomer wanted to just shave him. But the man said to just clean him up as best you can. After 6 weeks of eating Innova, the dog lost weight, his coat and skin improved, and the dog was full of energy. The man took the dog back to the same groomer, and the groomer commented, "Oh, you got another dog." The groomer couldn't believe it was the same dog. The man had a hard time convincing his groomer that yes, it is the same dog.

So, there you have it. Just like people, a good healthy diet can do wonders for your health, or your dog's or cat's health.

(I hope this doesn't come across as spam or advertising. I apologize if it does. Many of the good quality dog and cat foods, such as Wellness and Canidae or Felidae are brands I would highly recommend, even though the store I work at doesn't sell them)

Sally


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Some more thoughts and questions . . . I decided to try Evo because I've heard so many good things about it, have foster dogs and small dogs of my own - got the Small Bites formula, and NONE of them will touch it. I've tried Wellness in the past, they didn't like that either. I have a new vet who has done a lot of work in nutrition and he thinks Canidae (which I was feeding when I started with him) is not a good food at all. (he doesn't sell any dog food) Who knows - every time you hear something you hear something to contradict it elsewhere. I do think to some degree aside from common sense and not feeding your dog the worst junk on the market, that it really varies from dog to dog what they do well on. I'm not sure where to go from here. This vet actually likes Royal Canin, which I had not even heard of before. I think I'm going to return the Evo, but am wondering what to try next. They need small size, and one of them has a sensitive stomach. Should I try another version of Evo? Should I try Timberwolf, Nature's Logic? Merrick? .......


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

blueiris24- A vet I worked for recommended Royal Canin to me and she sang high praises about it to everyone. It is costly and not that good of a quality. My dogs health issues did not improve with it and she had constant urinary problems while on it (6+ months)-this food was supposed to help prevent them.

I put her on Solid Gold and have had no urinary problems since then. She quit smelling like Fritos, too. My shih tzus eat the Holistique Blendz- it isn't mini kibbles but smallish, flat type kibbles. They have no problem scarfing it down.
Cost wise I pay about $25 for a 15lb for the Solid Gold. The Royal Canin was a 3 pound bag and it cost me about $14.

I haven't tried the other brands you have mentioned, but I recommend checking out the Solid Gold line. Good Luck!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

blueiris24- I use the Timberwolf black Forest venison as part of my GSD's diet and she is nuts about it. I even use it as training treats for her. Have not tried the Merrick dry with this dog but the two I lost within the last year or so really liked it. Current dog does love their canned products tho. Jerri, current dog, also gets one raw meal a day. I use the frozen raw just because it's easier to feed.

Lisa


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

blueiris24, I'd be really curious to find out why that vet thinks Royal Canin is better than Canidae or why he thinks Canidae is not a good food. If he has really done 'a lot of work in nutrition' (I wonder what that means, too), he would see some very problematic ingredients in Royal Canin. All the evidence points to Canidae being substantially better than Royal Canin.

It's unfortunate how little most vets know about canine nutrition. It's even more unfortunate when those who don't know much pretend that they do.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Not stating this pertains to all vets--but when I resided in Victoria my Vet said their nutrition "class" was a Science Diet rep coming in!! So to learn about nutrition, they had to do thier own homework!!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I bought Evo to try this past Saturday and none of the 3 dogs has or will touch it. They said I could have my money back if the dogs don't like it, so I'm heading back this week in search of another option, maybe I'll try Solid Gold or Timberwolf.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Blueiris, you might check the expiration date, and make sure it's not old.

Sally


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Sally, thanks, I checked and it's fine - but none of my dogs will touch it. I returned it today, and the store owner gave me some sample bags of Solid Gold and a bag of Life4K9, which I had not heard of before. One of the dogs has a sensitive stomach and she said those dogs generally do better on baked food (Life). I gave them the Solid Gold samples for lunch and dinner and they devoured them, so I think we're finally on the right track -- I will try the other too and see what they think. Thanks for your help.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I've never heard of that one, either.

Sally


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

We have a 7 year old lab mix and got a 2 year old boxer from a rescue group a week and a half ago.

We've been feeding them Canidae, and I'm hoping it will fatten the skinny boxer up. The lab mix already started to gain weight on it, which she didn't need, so we cut back on her portions.

They both seem to have good energy with this brand and their BMs look normal.

I thought we could change flavors occasionally, so our picky lab mix wouldn't get bored with it. It comes in lamb, chicken and fish.

The raw diet that Weed and some others use is probably ideal -- I'll research that for dogs and cats as well.

Our three cats want Purina One mixed into any of the pet store brands we have tried, and it's probably not the best.

Here is a link that might be useful: raw food pet diet


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Janine, email me if you have any questions about BARF!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Thanks in advance, Gina!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Isn't Inova made in China ???
salbwil


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Isn't Inova made in China ???

No.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Interesting thread. I have a 17 month old Yorkie (spayed) that has very dry skin. I have been reading online about premium dog foods being much better for their overall health and skin. She has been eating Eukanuba for Yorkies, but doesn't seem to like it very much and it hasn't helped her skin at all. After doing some research I had pretty much decided to go with a grain free kind and chose Nature's Variety because it had a high rating and said it was good for the skin. I found a feed store near me that sells that brand. I went there and all they had was a LARGE bag of it. Well her being only 5 lbs, I didn't want to spend that much on something I wasn't sure she would eat. The lady there told me that I needed to be careful of a high protein food that it might not agree with her. She suggested Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream with Smoked Salmon (a little lower in protein) but a very good grain free kibble. She said it should be very good for her skin. She told me how to integrate it with her regular food so as not to upset her tummy, until she was finally eating the new food by itself. She had told me of a dog she knows that had very bad skin and hair and after being on a diet TOTW his skin and hair are great. After I got home with the food I went online to check out this brand. Seems everyone that has anything to say says that the food itself has wonderful ingredients. But several of the people reviewing it were very disappointed that it is manufactured by Diamond which is one of the companies that was on the recall list from the scare a while back. By the way, Eukanuba was also on that list. TOTW is their newest product and it is grain free. I take it that the recall list was for tainted grain? Some said that you should give this new food a try because of the good ingredients and accept that Diamond learned it's lesson and would be less likely to do anything wrong. Others said they would never give their pets anything that was manufactured by Diamond EVER. I am a little leary of what to do. I did give my baby some of the food tonight mixed with her Eukanuba. She passed right over the Eukanuba and ate all of the TOTW. With the mixture I prepared the TOTW was 1/16 cup. Any comments would be very much appreciated. Has anyone used this food yet? What results did you have? Thank you,
BW


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I feed my cats taste of the Wild, and they both love it, and they are picky eaters!! Well the female is picky, the male will eat almost anything!!
Ya, we must have looked at the same websites, lol everything is fine, EXCEPT made by diamond,lol Feed my dog Merricks.
I may start purchasing Taste of the Wild online, same price (including deliver) as from the store. And I dont have to drive 10 miles!! But then again, I like to support the smaller family owned pet stores


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Well, compared to Eukanuba, TOTW is a huge step up, but it is nowhere near as good as many of the other grain-free formulas available. For a grain-free food to be that low in protein (25%), it means that there are a lot of fillers. In the case of the "Pacific Stream" formula, there are three different potato products listed (potatoes, sweet potatoes, and potato fiber). I also question the wisdom of an all-fish diet for dogs, except in the case of a dog with allergies to other protein sources. Finally, I'm not a fan of canola oil as the main fat source for dogs. I'd much rather see an animal fat, such as chicken fat or fish oil.

For what it's worth, TOTW's other formulas all look better to me than the Pacific Stream. I'm not sure why that would be the one recommended to you. Pacific Stream does have slightly lower protein levels, but given the reason, that's not necessarily a good thing.

I wouldn't worry too much about Diamond at this point. As much money as they lost during the recalls, I suspect they are at least as cautious now as any other manufacturer.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

airforceguy and holligator,
Thank you for your information. The lady that recommended TOTW said that the salmon would be good for her dry skin and that the lower protein would be less sensitive on her stomach. I only bought a 5lb bag, but considering my baby is only 5lbs herself, it will last a while. I hear some people saying they rotate with different foods. Could you explain to me exactly what this means? And if it means that I could rotate the Pacific-Stream with another product would it be wise to use up this 5lb bag that way? How would I do that and do you have any suggestions on what food to give her?
BW


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Rotating foods: is exactly that, changing foods. But one should not if all possible, make the change instantly to the new food. It should be done in a gradual manner. Start off mixing just a small portion of the new food with the old one and adjust the ratio, until it is just the new food! Some dogs stomachs can adjust instantly, while others can't and they will have loose stools! Personally, once I find a feed that I am happy with, and as long as they eat it, I don't change. Why mess with a good thing if they like it and they are healthy!! My 2 cents!!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

If you rotate from one super premium to another, there should be no need to gradually change. If you are changing from a low quality food like Eukanuba, to a grain free food or one of the other rich, super premium foods, then you definitely need to do it gradually.

Sally


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I had very little problem switching my dog (chi) over to Natures Variety dry and my cat to California Naturals dry and canned. I plan on starting to give the dog some of the NV canned/medallions since he is constipated alot. But I did some research, checking ingredients, and both are good food. If you email NV, they will send you a coupon for a free 5lb bag ($10 value) and that is plenty to decide if your dog likes it.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Thanks ines99 for the info on the coupon for NV, I'll have to give it a try.
Since I already bought TOTW pacific, I started my yorkie on it. I did as the lady said and am mixing it with her regular food gradually. Only problem I have is she really likes this new food and picks it out and leaves the old. No dummy here, lol. So far, no problems with her stool. I compared the pacific to other premium foods, and it seems to me it's not too bad and very comparable. But I'm no expert. I guess time will tell if her skin and coat start looking better. I will keep reading about different foods to see if there is anything better for her. Finding places that sell the 5lb bags of premium is kind of hard though.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I am new to this forum and have read this thread with much interest.

I have a male Keeshond (Casey) and a Boxer/Shepard/Chow mix (Hana). They are almost 3 and 2 1/2 respectively.

I have been feeding Purina One Natural Blends Chicken and Oatmeal. I am thinking of changing over to Innova. I am worried about over-feeding my Keesie though as he had surgery at 9 mos. for luxating patellas (both legs). Right now he eats 1/2 C twice a day. How do I make sure I don't over-feed with the new formula? It is very important that I don't let him gain alot of weight. Also, Hana sheds alot...is it possible the change in food will lessen that problem?

What kind of "cookies" are best? I have been giving Milkbones...should change those also.

I have attached a pic of my babies!!







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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

caseykees, I couldn't find the calories/cup on the Purina web site, but you should be able to find that on the bag. When you switch to Innova (and, after reading the ingredients on Purina's "Natural" formula, I strongly recommend that you do), you'll want to compare the calories and adjust the amount you feed accordingly. Innova is a high calorie food, so you'll need to be careful with your Keeshond's weight concerns.

And, yes, the switch may very well make a difference with the shedding. Ours shed noticeably less.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

can anyone enlighten me on the pet food Precise for adult less active dogs? The man at my store kept pushing it. He seems to only carry the best lines of dog food. Thanks


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

lgiorgi, I responded on the new thread you started, too, but just in case anyone didn't see that reply....

I'm not familiar with Precise, but here's their ingredients list (off their web site), along with my quick analysis:

Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Chicken, Ground Whole Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Ascorbyl Palmitate), Beet Pulp, Ground Oats, Flaxseed, Dried Egg Product, Fish Meal, Chicken Cartilage (source of Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate), Alfalfa, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Carrots, Lecithin, Dried Kelp, Fish Oil, Dried Cheese, Brewers Dried Yeast, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Dried Cranberries, Chamomile, Dandelion, Peppermint, Rosemary, Tumeric, Dried Lactobacillus acidophillus Fermentation Product, Dried Streptococus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, DL-Methionine, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6), Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate.

Starts off pretty well with chicken meal as the first ingredient and chicken in the first few. Has several grains (rice, barley, and oats), but they are less processed than in many foods. This means they do offer some nutritional value as opposed to simply being filler. Still I prefer grain-free foods. I'm not a fan of beet pulp (filler and unnecessary sugar). Nice to see fish meal for a little diversification of protein sources. Nice to see chicken cartilage. Nice to see chelated minerals. The rest of the ingredients are in extremely small quantities and are there for either flavoring or as vitamin and mineral supplements, so for the most part, they are of little consequence.

The only ingredient I really don't like seeing is "Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex." Most dogfood companies have removed this synthetic version of Vitamin K because of concerns over potential side effects. It has been banned in human foods due to these same side effects. A food like this one, with fish meal, alfalfa, and kelp (all natural sources of Vitamin K), does not need this potentially harmful ingredient, so it's puzzling why they still use it.

Overall, it's a decent food, but Innova is much better. And, as runsnwalken points out, Evo is even better.

Hope this helps!


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

When I was a kid (about 35 years ago), my dad fed the family dog all sorts of junk food. My dad fed our cocker spaniel Oreos and Fritos all the time and the dog lived to be 15. I'm not advocating this kind of diet, but it's funny the kind of foods we fed our dogs and that they did okay.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I feed my cat raw, IMO its the best possible food, but not everyone nor every cat should be on this diet,

I think its sick the way the big- box companeys do BIZ and money shouldn't be an excuse for what they do, a CHILD!! could die from ol roy and other brands of crap dog food just as easily and just as quickly as pets from the recall , I ate dog food when I was little. Gray wolves in a zoo setting have been fed Science diet, and its one of the icker brands, animals wild or domestic are very adaptable.

What about the homeless?... I'll bet they eat pet food from time to time not by choice either, we are all connected, if animals eat this food WE will somehow eat it too has been that way ever sense before people were people. It just doesn't happen as MUCH as it used to because of stricter regulations thats all.


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RE: Good food

BTW when I mean"stricter regulations", (I mean for people not pets)


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I wish I could feed my basset any of those good brands of dry dog food but I can't.She eats chicken/rice meal everyday after being hospitialized twice overnight in a five month period from being dehydrated from gastritis. That was on the week-ends both times and that was a considered a emergency vet visit.Gastristis bouts are not something new for her its been going on a couple years.So since Jan its been rice/chicken with a little vegetables for fiber.I don't feel this is exactly a great diet but any changes causes problems.The vet believes she has a ulcer and is being treated for it.Before this she ate a homemade diet and has for several years due to skin allergies.She has ate nutro dry food as a treat and commercial dog treats(Iams)but any changes to commercial foods(you know how you will have bought it for awhile and then next time you buy it they have made a change,it can be the size of the nuggets or the color of the treats are brighter)well any change cause a stomach upset for her so commercial dog foods/treats are off limits for her.Debbie


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

I wasn't going to post the recipe since the thread seemed
to be discussing commercial pet foods. But since DebbieP already is cooking chicken and rice, and someone else also asked, I thought the recipe might be helpful. I cook double batches in 2 big steel enameled pots. The downside is time and cost. The upside is my terriers are very healthy on it.
Also, I thought it would be interesting if others respond about the nutritional content if they notice something amiss.

2 1/2 lbs ground beef (or other meat)
1 1/2 to 1 3/4 C rice, dry
1 T garlic paste
1 T wheat germ
1 T cider vinegar
1 T brewer's or nutritional yeast
1 t dried kelp
1 t bone meal
3 large carrots, grated
1/2 can green peas, mashed
1 small crown of broccoli, finely chopped
4 eggs, beaten
1/2 cup nonfat dry milk
1/2 t iodized salt
1 T flaxseed oil (add to mixture after it has cooled)

Begin by boiling the ground beef in a large pot. Add garlic. As it cooks grate and add the carrot
(A salad shooter is perfect for this job), chop and add the broccoli. Add water as
needed to prevent sticking or burning. Stir often throughout the recipe, and add water as needed.

Soak and rinse the rice several times. Add the rice and add more water. Continue to boil.

Mash and add the peas. Beat and add the eggs. Add the other ingredients. Add dry milk when cooking
is nearly finished. Add flaxseed oil when mixture is fairly cool and ready to be refrigerated.

For variation use different meat, cottage cheese, well cooked lentils, garbanzos, lima beans.
Vary the vegetable, use sweet potato, yam, spinach. Rice can be varied by
using oatmeal, other grains, etc.

Feed 2 times a day.
---------------------------------
The Vet, Dr. Fox, recommends giving a human vitamin at the rate of 1/8th tablet per 30 lbs of body weight.
I also supplement one of my dogs 125 tab of vitamin c and find it clears her runny eyes, and seems to
have healed wart-like growths on her back that my vet said were common
and not something to worry about. I suspect due to her age her liver is not producing enough
vitamin c. My 2 other terriers appear very healthy on this diet.

As I said in an earlier post, the dogs get lots of dog biscuits to keep their teeth clean.

A word about poop - Since I walk my dogs nearly every day and pick up after them (I use paper lunch bags
and pages torn from old telephone books), the diet makes their poop somewhat soft but still firm,
and moist. It doesn't smell bad, relatively speaking.

A word about breath - This diet has given my dogs a really nice breath scent.

When I analysed the recipe using Dietpower and compared it with RDA's for dogs and humans, I only found problems with
human RDA's. These were easily made up by adding spinach. Alas, my terriers have told me
they do not like spinach...


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Debbiep not to be mean or rude. Maybe you should ask a friend to give you dog food money. EVO isn't too much more than neutro and STAY AWAY from Iams they do animal testing and stuff, plus a lot of pet foods have along with cancerous tissues from slaughterhouse rejects, dead dogs and cats in them, they cart off all the PTS animals that shelters and vet offices have so unless you want your hound to become dog food hamburger WITH the PTS drug inside along with the possible collar or leash! do not let the vet 'take care of it' when the time comes to part ways with your dog.

Why on earth would you want to support that anyway? Your money goes to it if you feed bad brands.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

runsnwalken,

Where did debbiep say anything about money? She said her dog gets sick on anything but chicken/rice.


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RE: Good Dog and Cat Food

Been reading all posts with great interest. I am wondering why no one mentioned Canine Caviar. I can't find anything questionable on the ingredients list. Is it just sold in Alaska maybe?

My bichon is SO picky, I have to make it almost a matter of starvation for her to eat any dry food. (But I love, love, love her)


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