Leslie- Oh Roy sounds like a cute little devil- one that could drive you crazy!!!!!!!!
I was originally going to blast you for punishing a cat who, it seems isn't trying to injure but play. But it really seems like you are trying to work this situation out. I know you have already figured out that hitting and shaking him is never going to work- it will just injure him and make you feel bad.
Just gonna throw out some ideas...

Can you keep the girls indoors? I agree to keeping him out of the bedroom at night so the girls can have time away from him.
If your a good shot I would go for the squirt bottle. I was going to suggest the penny can but not if you think it would scare the girls.
When you aren't around to supervise, I would keep them seperated. Either him in a room, or the girls.
If none of these work, there is always Fluoxetine.....

Good Luck and please don't list him on Craigslist. Who knows what would happen to him :(

I find the penny can great for dogs --- for cats a spray bottle or squirt gun works great.

You can buy the plain, unmarked spray bottles in bulk and cheaply at Home Depot. Leave one in the bedroom, kitchen, living, room, etc. I find they throw a pretty good blast of water. All I have to do is pick up the bottle and boy cat stops what he is doing (unless he is really cranked up, which happens one in awhile).

I had another thought for you that has been very pertinent to my energetic guy--

I had read this somewhere years ago, and then was reminded by someone here last year, that cats get increasingly active prior to feeding time. This has something to do with the need to hunt if you want to eat; the result being that they start getting worked up as if they are getting ready to go on a hunt- think about athletes getting psyched up prior to a game. The key to dealing with it is to just feed them when they start behaving that way. Often times when my cat gets into his fits, if you feed him some canned food, he will immediately stop being a pest, and not just while he is eating, but for a long time afterward.

Do you have them on a feeding schedule of some kind? Do you give them special foods or wet foods at some point in the day? Can you see any correlation between when you feed and when his behaviors tend to occur?

Even though you are gone throughout the day, I think it might be worth a try to work on his behaviors the other 13 hours of the day (even the time you are sleeping). He may be able to make some changes, particularly if he values your attention.

My other cat is a very old, very sickly female who weighs very little. He doesn't seem to understand that she is 128 years old, and he certainly doesn't always treat her with the respect and dignity that she deserves. I understand why you feel badly about how your old cat was treated by this one when he was up in years, but let me put this perspective on it for you-- Our sick old girl had been an only pet for 10 months until we got hyper-cat. As difficult as he's been for her at times, he has also breathed some life back into her, believe it or not. I think his antics keep her more alert and present than she would be otherwise even if the attention is at times unwelcome. She also tends to eat better and act psychologically more dominant (though this can be subtle) at times- things that had no meaning to her before he came with all his peskiness. Though it bothers you, justifiably, it may not have been all bad.

All of your suggestions are good, they just won't work in my situation. Roy is a sweet cat, and I want to keep him, I just want my two sisters to get their lives back.

I don't know about your areas, but shelters here are full beyond capacity. We only have one no-kill one in my area, and they didn't have room to take him. None have had room for him.

The big problem is when he's outdoors and one of them ventures out. Once he starts chasing, there's no catching him to spray him with a squirt bottle. He learned that they would each go out around 4:30 a.m. to use the bathroom. He started stationing himself at the cat door and would jump them the minute they tried to go out, every day. One will not go out now at all, period, anymore, and the other rarely does and you can tell that she is terrified the whole time. And they both love going out, climbing trees, and chasing each other around the yard. This has totally altered their lives.

My house is basically one big room, with a bedroom off of which is a laundry room where the cat door is. To confine any of my cats in the bedroom or the big room keeps any of the others from being able to get to the cat door, and Roy and my other two need access to it to go out and do their business.

If I take him to a shelter, I know it's a death sentence. I'm trying to come up with another solution that will finally bring some peace for everyone. After trying everything else I can think of, a little pain when he misbehaves might get the message through to him over time, and save his life in the long run. I figure that's more humane. No other kind of conditioning has worked with him, and I'm simply out of any other options. And I'm finally out of patience after 10 months of this.

I've had instances when I've been outside with the two girls and Roy appears. I stare at him and say "No" very loudly, and I can tell he understands and he won't make a move for them when I'm right there. He knows he's doing the wrong thing in chasing them. Now he needs to learn that there will be unpleasant consequences when he does. I have a pellet gun I use to keep squirrels off my bird feeders, and they just pause and look at me when they get hit, so I know it doesn't really hurt. Maybe I'll try that first, but it has to be something like that so that I can reach him when he's running after them, or running away from me when he sees he's made me mad. A squirt bottle just won't reach him under those conditions.

You are the only one that can correct this situation. If he attacks them when they go out then don't let them out. Close up the cat door, at least for now. Or lock him in and let them out while you are in the yard (they shouldn't be going out anyway, it shortens their lives dramatically).

Ignore everything I just wrote. I just got to the part where you are going to use a pellet gun or "something like that" on the cat. Find a new home for him. PAY a shelter a donation if you have to. You are one seriously sick individual. I wish I knew your name so I could report you to the authorities. What part of being cruel to cats doesn't train them don't you understand?

I have a pellet gun I use to keep squirrels off my bird feeders, and they just pause and look at me when they get hit, so I know it doesn't really hurt.

It does not really hurt, huh....

That is sick. A friend's cat developed cancer where pellets were lodged and could not be taken out
Another friend's cat got a pellet in the eye and if you insist,I will post a picture of the cat that had it's eye taken out...

Does not hurt because that squirrel did not tell you so? Bizarre.

Here in Tampabay shooting cats with BB gun (and certainly a pellet gun) is considered torture. A cat was dumped in the bay after being shot 30 times with a BB gun and the community got so rallied up, 11,000 reward for catching the sick dude was offered and he indeed was caught just recently.

Google "Lovey the cat torture case"

Because of the possible infections, it was not certain that the cat would live at first, but she did.

There are a ton of ways to control the cats, starting with controlling the environment (keep them indoors for the time being!) If you were close to Tampabay, I would ask for you to drop off the cat by my house no questions asked, so I could adopt him out. No animal should be left in a carrier without water and a place to poo for 9 hours, threatened with pellet gun, and euthanasia, at the end of it.

p.s. Are you trolling for emotional responses or are you really out to help the situation? I really cannot figure it out.

I also cringed at the fate of this wonderful spunky cat. I have pet squirrels as well as five indoor cats, and it is beyond any rational thought to think a pellet gun would 'train" a cat. And putting him for nine hours in a carrier in a dark garage is torture. Poor little guy. He or any animal doesn't deserve this cruelty. Maybe you could try an experiment. Have someone fire a pellet gun at you and see how it feels.

Leslie77, exactly HOW do you think you would train this cat to leave the other ones alone by shooting him with a pellet gun?? And once you've shot him and he is injured and has pellets embedded in his body, will you then take him to the vet and tell the vet that you shot him because you are attempting to "train" him? Or will you leave him without medical attention so he can die from an infection? Here's a description of pellet gun use, do you seriously think you are just scaring the squirrels and not inflicting injury? Do you seriously think you can shoot a cat without inflicting injury which needs to be treated??

Pellet Guns for Pest Killing & Small Game Hunting

A pellet gun has many uses, from fun to serious. When it comes to the more serious uses, pellet guns are favored by homeowners, gardeners, and farmers to eliminate pesky varmint trouble. They project killing force at short to medium ranges. It makes this type of air gun a good choice for eradicating troublesome critters in and around the yard or farm, as well as hunting small game.

Here are some popular pellet guns and BB Guns for hunting small game or eliminating pests from your property. While you can get the job done with a .177 caliber rifle if it is capable of producing velocities in excess of 900 ft/sec, we highly recommend one of the .22 caliber air guns. You will usually lose some muzzle velocity when you step up from .177 to .22 caliber rifles, but the .22 pellets are heftier and provide a significantly bigger wallop, ensuring a cleaner kill.

>> Please be careful when choosing an air rifle for pest killing or small game hunting. You do not want to leave an animal (even a pest) merely injured and in pain. Using .22 caliber pellet guns that produce high muzzle velocity (800 ft/sec or higher) will result in a clean kill virtually every time, as long as your aim is true and you are shooting from within the manufacturer's recommended distance range.

Wow ... I'm basically speechless.

leslie, you shouldn't have any pets if you think shooting them with anything is a good idea.

Totally agree , Pam

I too find myself speechless at this point. Try to get it in your mind that the cat is just being a cat, just wants to pounce and play. Why in the world would you seek to harm him for this natural behavior? You are an animal abuser and should not have pets--and certainly should not have taken in a stray--if this is your attitude. Please, please don't harm the poor cat!

Leslie
Please do not post here anymore. I ( and I hope no one else) will no longer open any of your posts. As was mentioned above, please come up with some donation money, and bring ALL of you pets to the closest no kill shelter. Once you explain to them your plan to shoot your cat with a pellet gun, I am sure they will quickly remove them from your custody. You are not equipted to own any pets. What a monster you are.............

Leslie, Animals don't learn from pain. They associate the pain with you and learn to fear you, but will not associate the pain with the behavior and stop the behavior. You need to manage boy kitty so that he is separated from the fearful cats. I know you love all of your cats, and I truly don't think you understood that pain does not help animals to learn. You wouldn't have posted your thoughts here if that were the case. If you can't keep new kitty separate from your other cats, please take him to a rescue group or shelter to be rehomed. I hope that you can work this out so that the cats can be separated or boy kitty can find a new home. Take care,

First of all, a thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions and encouragement. This will be my last post to this topic, but obviously I haven�t made myself clear.

What is cruel is seeing what has happened to my two sisters these past 10 months, and how my old Mr. Velvet spent his last days. I�ve spent 10 months hoping Roy would grow out of this, 10 months of offering positive reinforcement, all to no avail. When I�m around and he acts out, it is plain that he knows he is doing something he shouldn�t.

Some of you obviously missed my post where I mentioned that I had listed him on Craigslist 3 times. I had some responses, but none I felt good about. And don�t tell me that you don�t know what is going on in shelters right now � with the recession, there is no room - hundreds of cats get euthanized daily right now.

As to the pellet gun, when I shoot at a squirrel and it pauses, looks up, and goes right back to eating, I doubt seriously that it has been harmed. Maybe there is some kind of dangerous pellet gun out there, but mine is a plastic one that I bought at Wal Mart for $9.99. Roy is a bruiser of a cat four times the size of the largest squirrel � if a pellet gun doesn�t hurt a squirrel, it would be no more to Roy than squirting water on him. It�s just that I can�t reach him with a squirt bottle of water outside, but I can reach him with a pellet gun.

The time I locked him in the carrier hurt me more than it did him. Fifteen minutes after I released him outdoors, I was in a chair reading and he came and jumped in my lap like nothing had happened. But I�ve never repeated that treatment because it just ruined my day.

I have had cats all of my life, and all of my life I have let my cats go outdoors. Knowing how they love it, I would never change that. All of my cats have lived long, healthy lives into their upper teens, so the idea that it shortens their lives is not true. The only pets I have ever had that died before their time was due to cancer or some other organic disease that had no relation to where they spent their time. Granted, some cats get run over by cars, or killed by packs of dogs. But that�s because of where their owners have chosen to live. I have always picked where I live with my cats� safety foremost in my mind, and I have never lost a cat except to old age or some unpreventable disease.

A little bit more about myself as it pertains to cats. For 3 years I have spent $50-$80/month to help a woman I know who lives on disability take care of her many cats. I have worked with several people in my community who manage feral colonies, and have taken into my business and placed over 450 ferals into very loving homes. I have lost much business as a result of that. I take 2 kittens at a time and just let them have the run of the place (after I have worked with them and socialized them myself). People come in to buy something, and leave with a kitten instead. I reach people who aren�t looking, but fall in love when confronted with a kitten. People who go to shelters are already in the market to adopt. I tap a totally different market � people who weren�t even thinking about a new pet. I get tons of Christmas cards each year from people who have adopted my kittens, and people come in constantly to tell me about them. But a lot of people are allergic to cats and can no longer come to my business, and a lot of people don�t believe animals belong in a business, so my business has suffered because of it.

I�m currently working with adult cats since I moved my two permanent store cats home to live about 2 years ago. The cat I have now was supposedly allergic to food, and I had to buy him an expensive prescription diet. I soon learned that it isn�t just food, he suffers terribly from environmental allergies in general. After two different vets, one specialist and over $1,000, I�m just trying to maintain him as best as I can and keep him as comfortable as possible. He�ll eventually wind up at my house, because it�s very doubtful that anyone will take on a cat with his challenges and expenses.

Three of my home cats are kittens that were so shy they would never show themselves to people, they would only interact with me. They became unplaceable, so therefore they went home to live with me. One has come out of her shell and stands up to Roy, but the other two are pitiful. It tears me up for something to drop, and see them almost jump out of their skins and dive under furniture as fast as they can. They were never this way before. My fear is that this has been so hard on them that even if the situation totally changes, I don�t know if they will ever get back their carefree ways.

Since I haven�t been able to re-home Roy, and he has not shown any progress in altering his behavior, I have two choices as I see it. Either my two girls spend the rest of their lives in constant fear, or Roy undergoes some kind of behavior modification. Which is really the cruelest route? I would never harm him or any animal. But it�s clear that he�s going to have to start associating an unpleasant result when he charges at them in order for him to change. If I didn�t see that he knows he is doing something wrong it would be different. But he clearly knows he�s not supposed to chase them. In addition, he�s huge, and they�re both very small girls.

Some of you are getting all worked up about Roy, with no thought to the 24/7 torture my girls are experiencing. I want them back on the bed with me, not under it on the floor the minute I turn the lights out. I came here for help, not for the cruel remarks I�ve received from sue36, olyagrove, lily316, petra, pamghatten, marita40, and homebodymom. You know nothing about me or my situation, so go take a valium and keep your thoughts to yourself. And Sue, if you can figure out how I can give you my contact information without having to post it for some weirdo to see and use, I�ll gladly do that so you can report me to the authorities. I would just love to see your reaction after they give you their report. I would welcome that just to put you in your place. Maybe we can pass our contact information to each other through the moderators of this site. Whatever � if you have a solution, I will happily accommodate you.

This is it for me and this topic. I�m done with this and will figure out my own solution. And no one has to worry about Roy being harmed, there�s no way I would ever injure him in any way. Again, many thanks to those who were supportive and offered helpful suggestions.

I�ve received from sue36, olyagrove, lily316, petra, pamghatten, marita40, and homebodymom. You know nothing about me or my situation, so go take a valium and keep your thoughts to yourself.

I and everyone else here judged you based on the information you provided and you painted quite a picture. So do not get nasty back at me or anyone else and do not tell me to "keep my thoughts to myself" if you do not like the genuine response to pellet gun suggestions.

Maybe yours is a magic "no pain" pellet gun, but a normal one will in fact inflict pain and terror.

Poor Lovey cat sure was terrorized ,getting hit with a BB gun 30 times
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If you have a venue for adopting out cats (your business), then why not put the cat up for adoption there?

There are many humane ways to deal with the situation. Separate the cats. Make a temporary set up for Roy to keep him isolated, maybe the female cats need to get used to the sight of Roy. Squirt bottle or a water hose - any of these are way better than a shock collar or a pellet gun.

Want to get the cat into a no kill shelter? Sure, everyone is full - ask to get on a waiting list - cats are coming from somewhere. Offer a surrender donation and a safety net - that if the cat does not get adopted in a certain amount of time, you are willing to take him back. Or willing to take him for cage breaks.
Plenty of smaller groups show cats at Petsmarts and Petcos on weekends. Volunteer with them, ask for the cat to be shown on weekends - volunteer to come out and show the cat.
Leave posters with a sad story and a cute picture at vet offices -maybe someone just lost a cat and is looking for an adult kitty to soothe the pain.
There are ways, you know.

I have 20 cats, most of which are here because I could not adopt them out. I do animal rescue and foster by dozens at a time, but unfortunately, some are too skittish, too imperfect - missing limbs, teeth, hearing, you name it, or too old, to get adopted - so they stayed. Sure, not all got along right away, it took work, time, dedication...and plenty patience.

Good luck.

I absolutely will not apologize to some one who would even consider for a moment using a pellet gun on their pet. Makes me ill to think of it. But I do have a suggestion. I went kayaking with grandson and the rest of the family and he had one of those super blasters. If you are not near the cat , a squirt bottle won't work. I have used them but my cats are indoor cats so not a problem. But these water guns squirt HUGE distances. and blasts a shot of water on the target. Maybe that would work.

Leslie,
You can email me your contact information through GardenWeb.

Just because you have had cats doesn't mean you are a responsible owner, just as having your children survive into adulthood doesn't make one a good parent.

Leslie77, did you really think people here would support shooting a cat with a pellet gun?

JackieBlue's idea to use a vibrating collar is a good one, and certainly won't inflict injuries.

Good riddance Leslie ... totally agree with sue36!

"Just because you have had cats doesn't mean you are a responsible owner, just as having your children survive into adulthood doesn't make one a good parent."

I would also advise against giving anyone on here your personal information. Just because they post here doesn't mean they aren't a wierdo.

. Just because they post here doesn't mean they aren't a wierdo

And that applies to all of us, you and me including...hehe

I use ( well I did) a little gizmo that emits a sound that only dogs can hear but I have no idea if cats can . It stops then dead in there tracks to figure out what it is and after a short while discontinue the behaviour. Worked on the dogs. Now some of you may think this is cruel and will damage their ears. It won't but that doesn't mean I won't get squawked at.

Beegood, the "squawks" were mostly a result of the pellet gun intention, I doubt anyone would condemn your gizmo.

Beegood, the "squawks" were mostly a result of the pellet gun intention, I doubt anyone would condemn your gizmo.

Yeah! Common people, it is common sense, and no need to be overly dramatic.
Pellet gun == cruelty -> hence, animal lovers got genuinely rallied up. Would you want it any other way? I am not lying when I say, a cat my friend cared for got shot in the eye and lost the eye (former feral living on the streets ow living in a sanctuary environment due to disability). I am not lying a cat my other friend had got shot and later on, had cancer where the pellet was lodged...

We have used the "do not jump on counters" gizmo that reacts to vibrations (cat jumping on the counter) and emitting a rather annoying sound for both cats and humans. Did work.

And seriously, a water hose can do wonders. I have two females semi ferals who occasionally get in the mood for petting, but for the most part are fearful of people. Both spayed and both very territorial to the point of spraying ...And while they share the yard - one gets the pond, the other one - the orchid house...they still duke it out occasionally on the border. I get the hose out and that sends the girls running to their respective territories...

Leslie -
I was well on my way to training a cat to attack other cats when my ex noticed that I was actually rewarding the aggression by trying to calm the cat down with petting. The cat was learning to attack others whenever he wanted attention.

Build a large cage of 2x4s and hardware cloth. Put food, water, and shelter from the cold in there.

Cage him overnight so he can't attack the others while you sleep. Every time he makes any sort of aggressive move towards the others, put him in the cage.

Do not talk to him, do not pet him to calm him down ... pick him up by grasping his body around the chest, give him one GENTLE shake and say NO! in a medium sharp voice. Hold him facing away from your body at arm;s length and dump him in the cage. Walk away.

Attacks get the cage, and no physical rewards.

Beegood,I would like to know what the gizmo you used that emits a sound that dogs can hear.This sounds like something I could use with Annabelle(lab/7 months)to get her attention..

I bought this thing from INVISIBLE FENCING About $60.00 I think. Right now my friend is using it for her insane boxer who jumped at every one non stop. Plus other problems of not listening. In 3 days the dog has pretty well stopped that crazy jumping. I find you shud only solve one problem at a time or the animal gets confused and also lots of praise if they stop when you alert them. It is not a toy but used properly does work well.

Install a cat door on an inside door in your home, only use the kind that require the electronic key fob thing that attaches to your cats collar. Give all the cats but him access through the door. This way they can all come indoors and stay safe and warm but all the other cats have refuge from him in areas of the house that you choose.
Good luck!

Hi Leslie:
I have 5 cats. 4 girls and 1 boy. He's a big guy that I adopted from my neighbors when they moved, after I'd had my girls for several years. The neighbors left him outside, day and night. When my dog died, Tigger started hanging around my house, bc I'd give him the attention he didn't get at home. Pretty soon, he was living on my side porch bc I couldn't stand that he was outside in the cold winter, and one night, coyotes had him cornered and I had to run out in the middle of the night and rescue him. He's big, part Maine Coone, and needless to say, tough. He'd chase any other cat that came around. He'd stalk my girls. He couldn't be in the house bc he'd peed all over. That all started about 3 years ago. For the past 2 years, he's been part of our household. What changed? Time passed and everyone got around to getting along and used to each other. I did intervene if I thought he was picking on anyone -- "No No No!!" -- just like I teach my dogs. He learned. When I wasn't there to intervene, I kept him separated from the girls. They took turns outside. I adopted two little dogs a year ago. The dogs are not allowed upstairs so that the cats have a place to go to get away from them. 3 of the cats had no problem getting used to the dogs right away. The dogs chased them, the cats swatted at them, the dogs learned. It took the other 2 cats a little longer, but all of a sudden one day, they're coming around and it's like there never was a problem. Funny thing is, now, when Tigger occasionally chases one of the girls, the other girls all rally together against him. It's really quite amazing. Tigger IS older than your boy, tho, so your boy probably needs to be played with. I've always found that in order to get the animals to get along, you just have to let them get used to the idea that they are all permanent housemates, that you're there to be top cat, or top dog, or I've even been top pig, and that everyone is loved and safe. I downsized to a little house, with a tiny yard that is fenced in for the dogs and pigs, as well as a cat fence for the cats. I have a pet door that allows the dogs and cats to run in and out. Everyone gets along great, whether I'm home or not. It makes me feel good that I was able to make that happen. Also, and I know, believe me, that sometimes this is easier said than done, you have to be the calm in the storm - firm and in control. If you're all freaked out, it might exacerbate a bad situation. BTW, do you let your cats out late at night? You do have to be careful of great horned owls, you know. Good luck. I hope your situation can end up like mine.

Don't forget you always have the option of the local Chinese take out. You might be able to trade Roy in for some fried rice :P

From your posts it sounds like you own or work at a retail store. You mentioned that one or some of your cats were 'store cats' and lived at the store. Could you not relocate your troublemaking male cat to the store and bring home the present 'store cat' or cats to live at your house? Just an idea. He might be popular with the customers, given his outgoing personality, and your 'home cats' would have the peace they all need.

This thread has outlived its shelf life. Playful fun Roy is either dead or in a 'no kill shelter' which in itself is torture for an animal. Animals don't do well in cages. Maybe, just maybe they are better off dead.

Our prisons are full of caged animals. How well do they do in society once they are out? Go to any zoo and tell me those animals are happy. Strange life we have when we try to do good.

Leslie,

I'm sorry to hear about the trouble you're having with Roy. I hope by now you've had some sort of resolution. I would also like to say how sorry I am to read the negative (and just plain nasty) comments made here regarding your efforts to change his behavior and keep him. You have tried EVERYTHING and you're at your wits end. I can understand that. Maybe some of your methods have been harsh, but the cat is not dead nor will he be forever damaged as some seem to want to point out. I also know the pellet gun you are referring to. Just plastic. There is nothing "magic" about it at all. It's perfectly legal. Kids use them all the time. It's not pleasant to be hit with one, but no damage will be done. They don't peirce the skin as the x-ray suggests. Please ignore them and listen to the people who are actualy trying to offer some help to you. I don't know if you've resolved your problem. I hope you have. If not, it seems like separating the animals when you're not around is a good idea. From what you've stated I think you are a good pet owner and I wish there were more like you around. Good luck to you.

sue36, olyagrove, lily316, petra, pamghatten, marita40, and homebodymom

You appear to be incapable of coherent thought and reasoning. It's a sad condition some humans have as soon as they are exposed to the internet. I love that you get on his case for the pellet gun but say nothing about the person suggesting giving the cat Prozac? How is drugging the cat until it's liver fails any worse than a light tap from a toy gun.

Which brings me to my next point. You automatically assumed that he was stupid and meant a BB gun which uses metal bb's. However you completely ignored the context. What he's most likely referring to are the cheap plastic guns that shoot rubber or occasionally light plastic pellets, we used them a lot when we were kids and they wouldn't be any more annoying to a cat than a squirt of water. They shoot about 3/4s as hard as your average rubber band gun..They aren't going to lodge anything in the cat, or do any permanent damage, hell they probably won't do any short term damage, it just feels like someone tapped you on the shoulder unless they held the thing right up to your arm.

Pay attention and do some thinking next time before you belittle someone. And read the whole post, don't just pick and choose key words like some stupid search engine for any reason to troll someone.

Now, that said to the little girls here who like to overreact, I still wouldn't use the toy gun on a cat. It wouldn't hurt it directly but I'd be afraid of it eating one of the little rubber pellets. Not to mention it would cost a lot less to fill a small super soaker and squirt him than to buy more of the little rubber things. Just keep it right inside the door since you've illustrated most of the issues occur out there. (don't wanna keep it outside cuz the cheap plastic will become brittle from the sunlight.)

I can't explain how irritating some of your replies are to me. I read through these, shaking my head almost the whole time. Sometimes I wonder if I'm one of the few folks left on the planet that firmly understands the fact that as pet owners, we make a conscious, deliberate decision to provide for the animals we take in. I am of the personal opinion that given the natural outdoor life yours or my cat would normally have, both the quality and length of their lives in our homes are better and longer respectively. They don't need to hunt for food, they don't need to fight off other cats or animals and they have a firm sense of security, which would otherwise be impossible.

Now, not that I would ever say that a cat consciously understands that it "owes" you its good behavior, but allow the above reasons to justify reasonable disciplinary action if necessary. Remember folks, cause and effect, just scale it to the situation. If the cat is on the counter, snap your fingers at him, tell him to get off the counter or do something mild - shoo him off, water bottle, whatever. If the cat lunges at your face? Wad up your fist and show him why that course of action is a *really* stupid idea (No, I'm not telling you to pin the cat down and have an MMA moment - just show him that it hurts to attack you). Let me assure you that although many of you have the misunderstanding that cats lack the cognitive ability to relate reactions to actions or associate your behavior with disciplinary action, this is most certainly not the case. For instance, if I snap my fingers and point at my cat, he will literally stop anything he's doing and exit the room promptly. My cat also as most cats has gone through that experimental stage so to speak where he has in fact lunged at me and did in fact learn quite quickly why he shouldn't do that. The point? They learn. Teach them, or suffer.

Regarding the shock collar: I have 2 mentionables for this. The first one comes from my perspective as an electrical engineer. The capacitive discharge from shock collars, tasers, etc will not physically injure your cat - these devices deliver voltage in high amounts, almost no current whatsoever. I would suggest one with the beep function if you're going to do it. Give the cat a beep every single time before you shock him, he will eventually associate the beep with the shock and much like me snapping my fingers at my cat, he will stop whatever he's doing at the beep.

The second mentionable: If you are among the crowd that believes the cat has no cognitive ability to associate the beep or the shock, what does it matter anyway? Blast him from afar, achieve your objective and the perk? To him, it's not you doing it, so very little behavior implication.

But anyway, I cannot imagine the flood of "omg animal abuse" posts that are on their way, hopefully you got the point I was trying to deliver. You're feeding him, cleaning his litter, giving him a climate controlled place to live and things to play with, heh - I don't know many humans who wouldn't be thrilled with that. You've earned the right to smack him upside the head if needed, just don't abuse it. (The just king is the loved one).

This post is over a year old WHY start it up again ?????

Seems to me the cats who are getting chased need to grow a spine or two! I would let the situation play out as long as no one is getting mutilated. If it is coming to that, then time to get rid of the cat.

Hi Leslie,

I'd have to definitely recommend against getting a shock collar for your cat. While it can be a tempting idea to provide quick discipline, there are much better ways to deal with a cat displaying bad behavior.

In all actuality, a cat shock collar will give you more problems down the line. Physical punishment will only instill fear in your cats, causing them to act out in other undesirable ways. Use positive reinforcement to train your kitty instead.

Here's a good article on the subject: http://catsmeouch.com/cat-shock-collars-everything-you-need-to-know/

Hope this helps!

I could have written your post myself. Roy appeared at my house, chubby and neutered. During a 12" snowstorm he found his way into my basement via a cat door and just started living here. I fell in love immediately at his friendliness and thankfulness in having a home during the winter. Vet also estimated Roy's age as 2. My cats were smaller ex-ferals, and he stalked them mercilessly. I, too, live way back in the woods, my drive is about 1/8 mile long to the road, so I use a cat door. My other kitties also used to be carefree trouble-makers. loved being outdoors, especially when I was outside, too. They also now live under my bed, and haven't slept on the bed with me since Roy arrived, nor do they hardly ever go outside anymore. I, too, tried all the things that you did, even putting him in a cat carrier in my dark garage for almost an entire day. I tried the shock collar also. I tried it on myself first just to see how bad the shock was, and it was almost nothing - just enough to startle him. But you can't leave it on for more than 8 hours, so many of the times it was useless. Plus, he would run out the cat door when I did have it on him and he misbehaved, but the behavior would stop for just that particular moment in time, he would be right back to his old ways within hours. I keep the collar in a bowl, and when he hears me pick it up, he runs for the cat door, then comes back inside in about an hour and starts his torture. But as I mentioned earlier, the crate time-out has been the most successful thing I've done, it will usually cause him to behave for weeks at a time after I've put him in isolation for a long period. He eventually will misbehave, but I just yell CRATE and he knows what's coming. Because it hasn't completely solved my problem yet, my other cats are still just as fearful and wary of him, I don't know if they will ever return to their happy lives pre-Roy. But I will mention one other thing you might try. My sister recently died, and her a**h*** husband was just going to put her cats down (2 female ex-ferals). I had them flown here and I've taken them in. I know a woman who has MANY rescued cats, and she swears by the Feliway diffuser. I knew I was just asking for more trouble by taking in my sister's cats, so decided to buy and try the diffuser. All I can say is that he has shown virtually no interest in the new cats whatsoever, he certainly has not harassed them at all. So you might also try that and see if it makes a difference. I know exactly where you're coming from, and it's a horrible place to be - having once had carefree, loving cats who have been turned into fearful, hiding, isolated and miserable kitties. And I'm approaching 5 years of this. Good luck to you, and let me know how things evolve for you.

Hi Leslie77

i kinda know your frustration. and i have no advise. It sounds like your trying to make everyone happy. and unfortunately as with people that just can't happen someone is going to get mad or hurt. Good Luck.

i have a cat that has learned to use the electronic dog door. She knows the sound it makes when it pops open. So she waits and goes through before it closes. I've done the spray bottle and can of pennies but those only work when i'm around. She has learned to go out at night or when i'm away from the house.

Though i'm interested in what JackieBlue said about the vibrating collar, NOT A SHOCK COLLAR but one the just vibrates. Any info would be greatly helpful. I don't what her going outside and either getting killed by a dog, raccoon, possom or a car.

The collar has buttons that allow you to administer a shock, or just make a warning sound. After the first time I gave him a shock (it's really very minor, startles him more than anything) I've only had to use the sound solution. And actually at the first sign that he's becoming aggressive, just putting the collar on him is all that is usually necessary - he immediately calms down and behaves. I've had the collar now for probably 5 years, and only had to shock him once. It's been a life saver. And it's not that I'm trying to make everyone happy. The situation was that only one cat in a house of 5 had any freedom. The other 4 lived in fear 24-7, and that was not acceptable. One cat had literally lived under my bed for 7 years - I even kept her food and water there. Now she sleeps with me again and is enjoying going outside again. It's been life-changing.

Thanks Lesliezz

That's what i was thinking that she would learn after just after one shock, which one did you use? I'm not there yet. Right now i've been locking the dog door at night. I know which defeats the purpose of the door. It's leaving for work, and then i'm stressed all day thinking about her going out. I just haven't made the decision yet. Thanks again for the advice.

I use the small dog collar made by PetSafe. They don't make one for cats, but the one for small dogs works fine.

I know this thread is nearly 9 years old, and Roy has probably moved on, but I want to point out one thing that was never suggested (or either I missed it) and hope it can help someone else in a similar situation.

If we take the time to look at the layout of our home, one can usually find a solution to separating cats.

Leslie78 said, "My house is basically one big room, with a bedroom off of which is a laundry room where the cat door is. To confine any of my cats in the bedroom or the big room keeps any of the others from being able to get to the cat door, and Roy and my other two need access to it to go out and do their business."

Even with this house layout, Leslie could have simply added a litter box in the main living area, and then closed off the bedroom. That would have allowed the bedroom cat(s) access to the outside, after x number of hours the cats could be rotated from one area of the house to the other. If Leslie didn't want to deal with a litter box in the house, then a cat door could be installed in another wall/door of the house. As the cat goes thru the new cat door it could lead into a dog kennel. This would allow the cat to spend time outside without harrassing the other cats....plus a litter box could also be put in the kennel. IMO, there's always a solution if you're willing to step back from the frustration and truly analyze the situation.

But, the easiest answer for Leslie77 may have been what was suggested earlier......take Roy to the store and let him be the store cat.

I'm retired now, but at the time was commuting 35 miles one-way to and from work. On the days that I could come straight home without running some kind of errand (rare), I was gone from 8:30-7:00 each day. Time was always a premium for me. While the above suggestion might have worked, the ability to control the situation by simply popping on a collar was both a time saver, and much, much cheaper than the alternate suggestion. Most of the time when I would see that a problem was starting, I would only have to yell Collar and that would do it. If that didn't work, just popping the collar on him always completely solved the problem. It was both a simple and inexpensive solution to a horrible problem.

Thanks Leslie. I apprediate the feed back. I'm glad that all you have to do is put it on or even just say the word now. I know that decision was a hard one to make. We all love our pets and just want them to be healthy, happy and safe. I will do whatever it takes, spend my very last dime on my four legged children, and i have. If comes down to me eating or them, i will always choose them. i've been trying everything i can. I just don't want to come home from work and see my Lalo dead in the street, because she got through the dog doorr, even with thoughs thoughts i'm still debating. Thanks again Leslie.

I think I know of a solution for you. The company from which I purchased my pet door makes one that is controlled by a collar. If your dog is wearing the collar, he/she can come and go freely anytime it wants to. But your cat, without the collar, can't access the door at all. Unless your cat parks itself right at the door to be there when the dog uses it, there's no way your cat can get out through the door. The name of the company is Pet Doors USA. If you're not able to find them with an internet search, I'm sure I have one of their catalogs lying around somewhere.

The fact that you yell at and HIT your animal leave me with no curiosity about your desire for a shock collar. Give your cat up to a shelter. It's better than being abused.