Don't we have a member here whose dog was killed by another dog off-leash?

I don't post much anymore, but my heart dropped when I read this. Four years ago this month, we lost our two dachshunds and my DH was severly wounded after they had been attacked by off leash dogs. We never walk our current dogs without taking pepper spray with us. It may sound cruel, but I never want to go through that again. I will never forget the support that this forum provided me during that difficult time.

I am so glad that your outcome was better than ours.

Waving to all the "old-timers".
Linda

Linda, that is so heartbreaking and infuriating. I am sorry to hear of that horrible ordeal. I walk every day on one of several local walking trails, and ALL of them have signs saying "dogs MUST be leashed at all times". And yet, at least once a week, I will encounter someone's unleashed dog, however none of them have been hostile so far.
One woman had 4 huge dogs, ALL off leash. They came bounding up to me and jumped up on me wanting to be petted. At least she was apologetic. It amazes me that so many think those 'leash your dog' signs do not apply to THEIR pet.

I have mentioned on this forum before about a neighbor and his dog being visiously attacked by a loose dog. The neighbor being attacked has a conceal and carry permit and shot the attacking dog dead. The owners of the dead dog called the police and they told the owner that the shooter was in his rights and the ticketed the dog owner for allowing their bad dog to run loose.

OMG Linda. I'm so sorry for your loss. How terrible for your dogs, your husband and you. Are your current dogs dachshunds? As you know they are little fighters and don't like to be bullied despite their little size. I was thinking of pepper spray but someone said it would probably blow back in my face or my dogs. They weigh about 23 pounds each.

I know labs are nice dogs but in the past few months, I've had three run ins with labs. First one lumbered out a few blocks away and chased us into the street. My dogs were barking like mad and he kept advancing. I hollered and a neighbor came and got the dog who had escaped from his fenced in yard. The second time was a few weeks ago. Only had the Dachshund then and in the woods at the doggie park, I encountered a big brown lab who started stalking us with his hackles raised up along his spine. My dog did nothing, was as scared as was I. Again a neighbor hollered for him and said her dog was in her yard but this dog never listens. He kept advancing, she kept hollering his name and finally she grabbed him when he was two feet away. So I started carrying a big walking stick when I walk the woods, but I didn't have it with me at the creek.

Even if the dog is totally friendly YOU don't know that and neither does your dog. You're right, some people think the law does not apply to them or their dog.

Linda, it was you I was thinking of, and I remember they were dachounds. How are you?

And that is why I always carry direct stop spray when I walk my dogs. It's only a deterrent (citronella spray) but has saved my bacon a few times over the years because it has stopped most dogs. Why don't people realize that an offleash dog vs a leashed dog is NEVER a good idea....I realize I am preaching to the choir, but like many of you, it drives me nuts...and it is SO unecessary and tragic when something happens like what Linda went through...I do hope you and your hubby are doing better.
Just last weekend I had a unnerving experience when I left the house to walk my sharpei mix and heeler mix...we were (thankfully) about 2 houses from ours when I spotted a wolf!! Now, yes I realized that it couldn't be a wolf, but then I thought it must be a coyote. Nope, it was a wolf hybrid. I am SO fortunate that the dogs didn't see him and vice versa(I've had so many bad run in's over the years that I am always scanning the horizon when walking the pups). I managed to get mine back home before going back out to access the situation. Ends up ( after a long ordeal) that he was my neighbors new puppy ( 120 lb puppy). That's a whole nother rant...their idea of raising him is to keep him in a dog run all day. Sigh, he's a sweet puppy, but I worry about when he hits his teen years without any training. I personally am not a fan of people owning wolf hybrids to begin with, but then you have idiots like my neighbor that have one and are not working with it ( at least what I have observed). ARGH!!

We have a neighbor who used to have 3 small dogs (now only has 2) - think they're rat terriers. One dog used to walk in circles all the time - when I asked why, she said it had a brain injury from being hit by a car. I suggested maybe she shouldn't just let them run....
She continues to let them run.
Now that my dog is blind - it's an even bigger problem when we walk by - as they will charge Kita.
I've tried talking to her - she says "oh, they don't do any harm - they're just little things...." I've tried yelling at her - as they're charging across the yard.
Another neighbor has reported her twice to animal control.....she continues to let them run.
These little things would be a snack for my Kita. Since Akitas are known for not being dog friendly, if anything, God forbid, should happen, we would be held liable.
I feel so sorry for the dogs because their owner is an idiot !!!!

Linda that is so sad, I'm sorry that happened as well and it's nice to hear the forum was able to provide you with some comfort.

I'm a lab owner and my girl is a 11 month old loveable 68 lb of fur that doesn't even chase squirrels or birds. Labs in general are instinctively none aggressive dogs and very social which is why I love the breed. I go to a large dog park often and the only Labs that get aggressive there are Lab mixes which more times than not seem to favor their lab breeding in appearance.

Even though I've put a lot of work into her training and socialization, I'd never walk her unleashed outside of a designated dog park. Not only because it's not safe for her, but because it would obviously be scary for a little dog or dog owner who doesn't know her temperament.

We have a member of "Moron" family across the street from us. They have 5 acres of land and a beautiful boxer they never leash. I don't think it's even got a collar or license but he's often out running the busy road or in our back yard. I've had to call the owner countless times to let them know their dog has run off again and is in a road where it could easily get hit. So stupid.

This happens all the time, but it's not one specific size or breed. I've seen dogs of all sizes off-leash. The last dog to approach mine while walking was a very tiny long haired white dog. It was off leash and the owner was at least 30' away as the dog came charging up and barked/ran in circles around my dog.

Last week I watched two women that were too busy gabbing to notice that the off-leash Lab they were walking took a dump in two different campsites while they talked. No leash, no bags to clean up, they left it for others to pick up.

Size/breed doesn't matter, it's the person not at the other end of the leash.

Well, I kind of differ from you Cindy for a couple of reasons. For one, dog poop that's not cleaned up by the owners happens all the time regardless of if dog is leashed or not. And secondly, IMO, an smaller unleashed dog is much easier to ward off than a large dog. My dog can easily knock me off my feet when we play and has an advantage with weight alone that a smaller dog would not have where a swift kick can knock a small dog back.

The dogs at our dog park are all supposed to be friendly and socialized. We have a ranger on duty at all times to help ensure this. Most people there tend to have no fear of all the dogs regardless of breed for this reason. One day my girl befriended a boxer mix who was large and very muscular. They were off running in the field together having a great time and when I called Ellie to come. The boxer thought I was talking to it and charged to me. Once it got about 15 feet from where I was standing it leaped into the air, feet straight forward and hit me in the chest. He was STRONG and knocked me hard enough that I lost my wind. It had no aggressiveness in it's body language and was wagging it's tail when it landed so I knew he was just playing but still, the owner was watching from a bench about 300 feet away and didn't even flinch. By the time he would have gotten to us, it would have been too late for him to scold the dog but if it were my dog who had done that, I would have at the very least gone to see if the person was okay. I think owners have a need for training more than the dogs do.

I agree that owners sometimes need more training than their dogs. I try to be good dog mom. I talk to other people there, but don't get lost in conversation that I forget I'm in a doggie park with two dogs. Our park doesn't have a ranger. It has two side by side parks separated by a chain link fence. All dogs over 30 pounds go to one side, under 30 the other. Some people don't respect that limit and bring bigger dogs over. Mainly puppies that are above the limit but are relatively harmless. Some bring very old dogs in and that's okay because they rarely move.

My one dog is very easy going and is photographed a lot running and jumping for balls . The Dachshund has a little bit of an attitude...doesn't like his space invaded, but he does nothing but bark if a larger dog comes too close. He does like to hump little white fluffy dogs. I always put a stop to it right away. I can see the glint in his eye..and I know his "type" as soon as I see it.

I love the park by our house. It's actually famous in the dog park world as it's 24 acres reserved inside a county park. It has several sections and even a lake for the dogs to use during the summer. I've been told that counties and cities all over the country use it as an example when creating their own layouts.

It's actually so big that when dogs are running around it's hard to keep track of them. I admit I've even missed a pile or two. I'll see her going off in the distance but by the time I get there to clean it up, she's hit the road running again and I won't be able to find it. BUT at least I understand the importance and try. I think that's the issue, a lot of owners don't try or stay engaged enough to care.

Dogs male or female will hump especially after a recent spay or neutering. It's perfectly normal and their way of showing dominance.

The issue the OP was discussing dogs being off leash in areas where they clearly are supposed to be on leashes. My point was that I've seen it happen with small and large dogs, size didn't matter. If there's a leash rule/law, then ALL dogs should be on a leash.

As far as the poop comment: Obviously a dog can poop leashed or unleashed. That wasn't my point. If the woman I spoke of had leashed her dog (as per the rules of the campground) then her dog would not have taken a dump in two campsites that were not her own. Maybe it would have been along the road, but it would not have been a surprise for others who weren't expecting it on their site.

Regardless of size, playfulness, cuteness factor, etc, even dog lovers don't always find every dog adorable. Not every dog owner wants your dog (or mine) running at them. If the rules say use a leash, then just use a leash.

Amen to that,Cindy.

About idiot dog owners - their name is Legion.

About idiot dog owners - their name is Legion.

I have rewrote this a few times. Just because I find what I have to say to very one sided .
I have walked my dogs One time in a dog park very long time ago and found it was something that didnt fit with the training I have provide for my dogs.

When I started to train my dogs I start with them from the second I get them home as puppies. 1st they get a collar and a leash. Next they learn sit , stay , come, lay down. And NO.
Then Its time for them to learn WHO is the PACK LEADER.
(yes Not everyone does this)
My dogs are on leash from 1st thing in the morning to right before bed time. they are hooked to my ankle and where I go they go. If I sit at the computer they lay next to me . If I am in the kitchen they are with me . But then again, I want my dogs to have respect for the leader of the pack and the other pack members in the house hold.
I know that I can turn my dogs off leash and Not have to worry about them walking away from me or leaving the 6 in from my left side. My dogs are trained to respect the rules of walking ,running or working . They learn from day one who is the boss in the house and it is not them.

So back to reason why I have had to rewrite this.
When you enter a dog park you take the "RISK" there are other owners in the park that allow their dogs off leash.
You take the "RISK" even on leash some dogs Dont play Nice with other dogs or maybe other people . You also take the "RISK" that some of those dogs in the park Might Not be utd on shots. Or Might have some other problem that your pet might get. It is ENTER AT OWN RISK.

I shouldn't have to take the risk when it is a clear violation of Park rules . There are sign everywhere stating all dogs need to be leashed. There is a substantial fine if there is a violation. One of my dogs would trot beside me anywhere I went and would listen in a heart beat, but I don't ever take him off lead unless I'm in the fenced area. Then dogs should never be on a leash because it can cause problems in behavior.

I have been a terrier owner for so many years, I forget there are other breeds out there. I also live in a rural area where I have no need for a dog park. I have never even seen a dog park. The whole idea makes me uncomfortable, to be honest. LOL. What I do know is, some of my dogs had a very distinct idea of their personal space and I have found other dog owners, whether their animals are leashed or not, have always approached my dogs as if mine would just LOVE to have their's up close and personal. That is not usually the case.

Mine would never charge after another one, but they also would not react very well to one approaching me or them. Lips curl, and backs stiffen. Mine is never off leash when outside, either. I guess what I am getting at is assumption. When I'm at the vets with them, I do not sit near other dogs, and usually pull mine back or seat mine on my lap when other owners let their dogs approach mine. The owners always seem a little miffed and tell me how gentle their dogs are, and I always tell them it's not their dog's actions I am concerned about.

The worst one was my mini schnauzer. We loved him so much, but he was wired tight and we dealt with that for sixteen years. He was never, ever aggressive with humans, but he just could not be trusted around other dogs aside from his housemates. The reason I'm sharing this is that it's not always the loose dog who is the aggressor. If you let your dog run unleashed in a dog park, it might just find itself face to face with a dog like my schnauzer.

There are lots of dog parks in my city, many of which I refuse to patronise. The off leash ones clearly state that all dogs must be under control, and the on-leash ones require all dogs to be leashed (doh!). But I have never seen a bylaw officer anywhere enforcing compliance. I've come to accept that the only dog I can control in any of these spaces is my own (hopefully). The ones I avoid have the highest density of out-of-control dogs, and out-of-touch owners. In the absence of effective monitoring, I am not comfortable confronting bozo owners, as I don't know which will react badly and make a bad situation worse. So I exercise my dog in surroundings where we are both comfortable, and safe.

Three more instances at the park today. Since it has been unbearably hot and I've been walking the dogs in my town at night, I decided to walk the woods around the park today. Too hot for the fenced area ,and there were no little dogs there anyway and only a few in the big dog part. So Wally, the Dachshund, and I trot down the hill only to encounter a young guy carrying a tiny infant with a German Shepard trotting beside him. No leash even in the guys hands. He grabbed the dog's collar, and we walked by. A minute later I heard frenzied barking and realized it was my other dog with my husband. Husband later told me the guy grabbed his dog again before he got near but still. Then we came to the creek and my dog wanted to go in to swim but there was an unleashed large puppy jumping around. He clearly wasn't a threat but jumped on me and aggravated Wally so we left. A few hundred yards we rounded a corner only to find a medium sized mutt standing in our path. I heard an older man's voice, never saw him, saying ..he's fine , don't worry about him. I just took another path, and I heard the man click on the leash. This is all within ten minutes tops. I was carrying my thick stick with me, and I would not hesitate to use it if a dog attacked my Wally. Since he is so short, he has an attitude. Strangely, I don't have a problem in the actual fenced in area. At least I haven't up till now.

The Risk I am talking about is that I am Sure there is not an officer or more then one walking the paths to make sure people are following the rules of the park. So when you come into a park you are taking the risk that there might be someone in there that does not follow the rules of said park and keep their pets on leash.

You're right. There is not an officer on foot patrol. It's a huge township park with 100's of acres and many pavilions, ball fields, and other recreational areas. It's a gorgeous park with woods, meadows, the large creek running thru it . I see the officer patrolling in his jeep but he doesn't get out of it to check the dog's behavior. It is what it is.

Calliope - I hear you. My Akita does NOT like other dogs at all. We tried very hard when she was puppy to acclimate her to other dogs - went to puppy school, etc. She just doesn't accept other dogs. She is NEVER off leash except in our fenced back yard & we have never been to a dog park.
But, I too worry when we're at the vets. I will sit as far away from others as I can & hold her collar. Unless it's an emergency, I will schedule her appointments for the first one in the morning - in/out before they get busy. Other people just don't understand that they can't let their dog check out the other dogs there.
Kita has never been agressive towards a human (except when the vet wanted to check her eyes)- but I do worry about loose dogs and leashed ones with stupid owners.....

I've actually never seen a dog park where a leash was required, we live in an area that's more rural and the park is owned by the county. We pay an annual fee to use this park and the fees help pay the costs involved for on site supervision and permit enforcement.

I doubt very seriously that I would ever use a park that was leash only and/or not controlled by the municipalities because there ARE a lot more risks involved. I have actually witnessed the person on duty tell people they have to leave the park when their dog has not behaved in an acceptable manner.

I wish all dogs had access to a park like Orion Oaks, dogs and owners alike all have a good time there socializing and enjoying the amenities the park has to offer. That's what I think a park should be like.

Mountain Lady We too started early training with the simple commands and I think that is so important to do for lots of reasons including their own protection. While in a lot of ways I agree with the concept of the owner being a pack leader, I've never heard of the method you use in regards to leashing the dogs to you. For me it seems more like you're creating an environment that is very constricted and more like prison than a home for them. While setting boundaries is always important, like humans, dogs need to have the ability to move around freely within their environments. That's how they learn and grow. There are other proven methods to ensure a dog knows he must listen to his owners commands and they don't require strict limitations on their movements or even punishment. The way I'm interpreting your post by forcing them to sit at your side at all times, you're basically caging them without the bars. You obviously are very happy with the results of your method but sometimes the results aren't justified by the means by which they are obtained.

Here is a link that might be useful: Orion Oaks Park

Nice park but your rules are just like ours. Here as with yours ,dogs must be leashed on the 100's acres of woods, meadows, and creek. In the couple acres of the fenced area , they are off leash and shouldn't be leashed.

My pet peeve is to see a dog bounding towards me and my dog, and hearing the owner calling "Don't worry, he's friendly". Yeah, well, how does he know MY dog is friendly?

It is a wonderful park but the pictures don't do it justice. The unleashed areas are huge. There are leashed areas as well I guess so people can walk some trails but the way it's organized it's very separate and I've never seen them. The only time I see leashed dogs (or our dog is leashed) is when we are either coming from or to our car. The gates to enter each section are doubled so it's more difficult for a dog to get out and we are not allowed to unleash the dogs unless we are completely inside the yards which are huge.

My pet peeve is to see a dog bounding towards me and my dog, and hearing the owner calling "Don't worry, he's friendly". Yeah, well, how does he know MY dog is friendly?

I am totally guilty of doing this because our dog is still less than a year old, very puppy like but rather big. She loves to run up to people to say hello and that often startles other owners. When a dog comes towards me I too appreciate an assurance that it's friendly and assume someone else in that situation appreciates the same courtesy. Your the first I've ever heard of who doesn't. Different perspectives I guess.
I've found that dogs have their own way of communicating and quickly creating the pack order and have seen this process 100's of times at the dog park. Once in a blue moon an owner will have to step in, but never once have I seen an aggressive fight where any of the animals were harmed.

I'm saying this from my own personal experience because I've had a biting and mean dog before so take it for what it's worth. But if your dog is not properly socialized, unless it's muzzled, it has no business being out in a public setting where it can hurt another person or animal. Regardless of whether another person or animal approaches you, if that dog hurts someone, you are the one at risk of being sued.

Nobody said anything about their dog hurting a person We're talking about an illegally unleashed animal, not under its masters control....... approaching a leashed animal, who is under its master's control. I don't think a suit would go very far if the leashed dog reacted to the unleashed dog in a negative manner. The regulations are meant to protect both dogs, not just the leashed ones and the owner, who thinks their dog is just so, so cute and even if he's big is just a doggie toddler and everyone should exempt him is the negligent party. This is exactly the mindset this thread is all about. There wouldn't be a problem if the people who let their dogs off the leash in a regulated area didn't feel exempt from the rules. I see it all the time at the vets. Signs on the walls asking the patrons to please keep their dogs on a leash and owners letting the pooches down to explore everybody and all the other animals. My cat doesn't appreciated it either as those dogs approach in innocent curiosity and she leaves my lap and climbs up my body, terrified.

"But if your dog is not properly socialized, unless it's muzzled, it has no business being out in a public setting where it can hurt another person or animal."

Some dogs just don't socialize well...regardless of how much you work with them. I have a sharpei mix, which their breed is not know for great social behaviors. However, just because she doesn't get along well with other dogs doesn't mean she shouldn't have the right to be walked on a leash and not have the threat of dog owners who think "oh anyone/dog will like MY dog," who is off leash! Part of the reason my sharpei has not socialized well is because of too many loose dogs approaching her in a way that made her fearful ( yes, we've worked with a behaviorist over this). Does she get along well with some dogs? yes. But not all dogs.
I should have the right to walk my dog(s) on a leash safely (and most towns have leash laws anyways) without having to deal with dogs owners letting their unleashed dogs traumatize mine. Yes, you may think your dog is friendly and maybe it is, BUT MY dog may not see it that way. It comes down to being respectful and courteous of ALL dogs and their owners by respecting leash laws in public areas (sans dog parks where it's permitted).
Off my box now.

Exactly. If the law says ALL dogs must be leashed, that applies to everyone of them. My dogs are very sweet, especially one of them, but they are barkers when unleashed strange dogs approach them. WE, my dogs and I, do not know if it's friendly or about to rip my dogs' throats out. The dog last month who was stalking my dog very slowly with his hackles raised up was a definite threat, and my Dachshund was scared and not barking. ..My question, would I be justified if that neighbor woman would not have grabbed him when he was a foot away, to pound him on the head with a stick or spray him in the eyes with a substance?

Inside the fenced area where all dogs run free, I have not encountered any problems. They all feel equal off leash.

So, last night, as I'm taking my blind dog out for a walk, there's a woman with a baby stroller (baby included)coming down the street with 3 unleashed dogs......a medium size cocker mix, a bichon & a rat terrier.
She's calling to the bichon as he's entering my yard - he's ignoring her. Kita's hackles are up - so we immediately went back in the house......with the bichon not far behind.
As I'm looking out my closed door - I see her leave the stroller along side the road to cross my front yard & grab her dog from my front steps.
Granted - this is a very quiet residential street - but really.....SHE LEFT HER BABY AT THE ROAD!!!
She had no control over those dogs - doesn't matter whether they were friendly or not. Apparently wasn't too concerned about her child either.

NO ONE should ever let their dog run loose in public - whether there are leash laws in place or not!! If you care at all for your animal, how can you let them run loose like that? Don't you worry about them getting hurt or hit? If you don't worry - then maybe you should find someone who would care more for your dog that you do.

I was so upset about this last night, I wasn't thinking straight.
But - should she come back down my street like that, you can be sure that not only will I say something to her...I'll also be making a few phone calls.

Now - I'll get off my box!

I've told this story here before, but since it's appropriate to this thead, I'll tell it again. My first 'real' job was as a postal carrier. When I approached a house a beautiful GSD came at me and then leaped on me, growling and snapping. We were equipped with mace and that was a joke. I had it stowed in my pouch and it was dead of winter, and when I aimed it to spray, it just trickled down my arm. I had a small stack of magazines rolled up in a leather strap and used it as a baton more to wave in the dog's face to keep it at length, before it decided to jump up at me again. Owner comes bounding out of the house, screaming. I thought she was coming to save me, but her words were 'DON'T YOU HURT MY RINGO!' It was pretty obvious that she thought Ringo had no intention to have me for lunch, but nobody thought to share that bit of info with Ringo. Next day, Ringo was loose and guarding the front steps again, so she didn't get delivery and when I got back to the post office, the postmaster was waiting chew me out, because she called and complained about ME! When I told him the circumstances, he called her back and told her there would be no more mail delivery until she secured her dog if it was outside. Yeah the next day it was secured alright. It was chained to her mailbox pole. This is the reaction of indignent dog owners who think their fur babies can do no wrong and everybody else is just unreasonable. It's only common sense to ask permission to approach a human with a dog on a leash, and enquire how safe it is to approach their pets by your own body or your dog. It's only courtesy not to unless invited. Yes, Kita's mom.......how can any person expect to have control of three dogs not on a leash, and a baby in a carriage simultaneously?

Maybe I didn't make it clear in my original post but with as much as I adore my dog and know she would never bite or hurt any one, I would never walk her unleashed. That said, she's almost a year old now and very strong. When walking her, if she sees someone coming her first instinct is to go say a very exuberant hello pulling me along as she goes. Sometimes it's impossible to keep her from pulling towards them and that in my opinion is an appropriate reason to warn an on comer that she's friendly. You can agree or disagree, that's your prerogative.

Lady - If you had read my previous post you would see that I too do not believe in unleashed dogs in public areas unless of course its a dog park with the proper fencing. And while I do understand there are some breeds who are not chemically made to be as friendly, I personally believe that YOU take the added risks for having that breed and anything that can happen when walking them. People who own other aggressive breeds like Pit Bulls for example share those same risks. You can say since your dog was leashed the law would be on your side, but my experience with it has been very different and I urge you to call your local authorities to confirm whether your assumptions are correct. There are so many elements outside of ones yard that a pet owner cannot control, that if you have a dog that is not able to be socialized, it's better to keep it in a more contained situation so EVERYONE with their PROPERLY SOCIALIZED DOGS who also have a right to be on the streets are protected as well. I say this with the thought that leashed dogs can at times become excited and difficult to control as well and just because we may have the right to do something doesn't mean that there are not certain expectations that come with those rights. I personally get quite annoyed when I see someone walking a dog that snarls at people as they walk by. I'm not saying your dog does that, but we all know there are dogs who do.

Years ago, I had a wonderful Australian Shepard mix. A real sweetheart when we got her as a puppy but some immigrant kids next door would constantly tease her through the fence and by the time she was a year old she had turned a little mean and snappy. I had caught the kids doing it on several occasions, tried talking to the parents (who didn't speak English) and eventually called the authorities to file a complaint. However, during the conversation, I was advised by the authorities that I should probably find the dog a new home because irregardless of why she was mean, if she were to bite or harm someone or even another animal I would be held liable. Obviously, the environment was no longer conducive to her needs and to avoid a law suit or worse, I took their advise and had to relocate her to a more appropriate home. So I do get your frustrations, I just don't agree with your perspective about them.

OFF MY BOX NOW TOO.

Again, you are talking about dogs harming people. A leashed dog won't harm people, if they stay clear of it and if you are attached to that dog, you have a pretty good chance of keeping it clear of people. You don't have a good chance of keeping it clear of another dog, unleashed, who doesn't understand your warnings, and will follow you if you try to go away. That's a whole other ball game and if the unleashed dog was injured by a leashed one.....I really doubt the owner of the unleashed dog would have a leg to stand on as far as complaints or injuries. They put their own dog in harm's way and their dog, whether it started it or not, would be the aggressor. Humans and kids and aggressive dogs are a whole other ball game. You are ALWAYS at fault if a kid or human gets hurt, whether you are or not. Dogs who are not friendly to other dogs are not necessarily aggressive to people.

Lukkiirsh - just to reiterate, we are talking about unleashed dogs vs leashed dogs. For the record my dog is well socialized with people, she's never met a stranger...it's lose dogs that are an issue and alot of that issue is BECAUSE of her being traumatized by lose dogs over the years when she's been on leash.
I agree with calliope's post above...well said.

First of all, Lukk, if your dog is so strong that it is pulling you towards other people and you feel the need to let people know that she is friendly, your dog needs training. Your dog should NOT be pulling you like that. Nor should you allow your dog to get that close to someone without that person's invitation. If your dog pulls hard enough that you feel you need to warn people that your dog is friendly, you need to re-evaluate your situation, and train your dog better. Having a strong, young dog is no excuse.

Second, I don't understand your post about the Australian Shepherd. Why didn't you just put the dog on a chain while she was doing her business instead of letting her run around your back yard and be tempted by the children on the other side of the fence? Or why didn't you install a privacy fence instead of a chain link fence once you found out about the children teasing her? I don't get it. There is no reason, with the information provided, that you had to get rid of that dog.

It's not the children's parent's responsibility to make sure your dog doesn't bite them. No matter how wrong those little children were, it's your responsibility to make sure that the dog does no damage, and it's your responsibility to not allow the dog to get mean and snippy.

Back to the subject of idiots that think it's OK to walk their dogs without leashes, they are just that, idiots. It just doesn't occur to people that 1. It's illegal in many jursidictions to not have your dog on a leash, and 2. It's just plain wrong. A man walks down our street occasionally and his dogs run behind him. His dogs are well behaved, but nonetheless, he should have them on leashes. They run into our yard, and then our dog starts barking from the window because they are invading his territory, and it's aggravating. Especially in a dense urban environment like we live in. It's stupidity and it's just asking for his dogs to cause drama of some sort.

About a year ago I opened my back door and found a pit bull on my deck. It decided it wanted to run into my house (or at me). Luckily I had quick wits and slammed the door as fast as I could. Even more lucky, I didn't have one of my beagles with me on a leash. That dog could have killed my beagles, and/or injured me. I now keep a baseball bat by the door. I called the city animal warden and they took the pit bull away. He was probably put to sleep, mostly from the ignorance of his owner. The owner probably would not even step forward because most people in this city are not compliant with pit bull rules (high fences, etc.) and would be fined.

Kryeck my dog is a Labrador puppy. They are smart, naturally friendly and STRONG. She's less than a year old, been to 2 training classes, has been going to puppy day care 2 times a week for socialization and is now fully trained thank you very much. I used to date a Vet, and have owned dogs all my life. I am educated on how to take proper care of all our animals and don't need you to tell me what my dog needs.

Secondly I would NEVER chain a dog. That not only endangers the animal but it is cruel. Makes me wonder about your ethic and how you care for yours. And maybe you weren't responsible enough to teach your children how to treat animals but I made sure to teach mine and believe those parents, all parents absolutely have a responsibility to teach their children how to treat animals properly. And who are you to say so judgmentally what I should have done? Do you know all the facts and measures I took to protect my dog?? Were you there? You sure are presumptuous. FWIW, I had a full sized fenced in back yard and that should have been sufficient to protect my dog from those ignorant kids. It was an 8 foot privacy fence not a chain link that these children were climbing. I was a renter and purposely rented a place with a PRIVATE back yard to ensure my dog would not get out. When I moved there she was a baby and as gentle as a lamb. The fence was to protect her from getting out, had I known about those kids I wouldn't have moved there. FWIW, I AM a responsible pet owner and would never own a dog I couldn't train and/or has a mean tendency. I did what I needed to do to protect the dog and the children by finding a better environment for the dog. I made the right decision but I can't say that other owners with dogs who have a mean tendency do the same. I would happily sue anyone who's dog got aggressive with me or my VERY SOCIAL DOG and harmed us in any way whether their dog was leashed or not. IMHO aggressive dogs don't belong in public places where they can harm others. Don't agree? That's your prerogative but don't get arrogant or judgmental with me.

It's not unethical to use a chain when your dog is using the bathroom and taking care of it's business?. I've never heard of such a thing? You get a 20' chain, you put the dog on it while they run around and do their business, and then they come in. It takes all of ten minutes. Just because they are on a chain doesn't mean you have to leave them there all day?

I know labs in general are sweet loving puppies/dogs. However in my last four encounters(the 5th was a benign looking older mutt), all four charged my dogs barking and growling menacingly. Three were mean and snapping, but the 4th was downright scary with his hackles up and stalking us in slow motion never taking his eyes from my Dachshund. I totally feared for my dog's life as I was unprotected against this very large brown lab. Before these experiences I never worried about labs but now I do.

I have two small dogs and even a friendly large dog could do permanent harm by jumping on my dogs. Dogs must be leashed. Period.

I personally do not think labs are friendly dogs. I have had lots of run ins with unfriendly labs. There is no such thing as a "friendly breed". Dogs are what their owners make of them.

Ug! Yes dog owners can be so very bad!!

We were coming home from a camping trip with 2 little kids, spouse and I, and our dog. I had the dog (80 lb mutt) watching the 4 year old on the playground when he had to go potty (kid not dog). So we three walk toward the parking lot where I can give one of them to the spouse who is at a picnic table with the 7 year old.

A car pulls up and three dogs bound out and start peeing all over. Two yorkies and a dane, all unaltered males. They come running at me and my kid and dog. I asked the owner to please keep her dogs off my kid and leash them (signs all over of course). She actually waved her leashes and said she had leashes. I try to shoo off the dogs and this idiot owner tells me to be submissive and relax and chill out. So I might have yelled and told her to get her dogs off my kid and use a leash...etc.etc.etc.

She used many expletives in front of my children's delicate ears insisting that her dogs wouldn't hurt anyone and we were bad for being unhappy at her lack of leashing and then told us we were terrible for having an F-ing "pet bull" when we had children. Why the heck would you allow your yorkies to approach an effing "pet" bull on a leash if they're so bad anyway?

So your dogs are friendly. Well my %&*%# ^%$(* pet bull might not be and that's why he's on a leash!

(Actually my so-called pit bull is a dog lover and would have been delighted to meet those dogs. But not with my little kid in the mix thank you very much!)

So, pepper spray? We had a lot of run-ins with unleashed dogs on this trip and I don't want to be mean to them but I do get protective around my kids. I guess I might have "accidentally" used it on that woman if I'd had it though.

kreycek, you obviously feel it's okay to chain a dog and are entitled to your opinion but so am I and I would never chain a dog up, not under any circumstances.

Lily and Murraysmom, I'm sorry you have both had such awful experiences with labs. I was just reading an article regarding labs the other day and it said that as with many breeds in breeding is a problem and this can affect their dispositions, maybe this is the situation you are running into. The only time I've ever personally seen an aggressive lab is when it was a mix. Most recently this was at the dog park, a lab "looking" dog was playing a little rough with the other dogs and I asked the owner how old his lab was, his response was it was a lab mix (rescue) and he wasn't sure of the exact age, but thought it was about 3. Other than having a longer thinner tail, the dog looked completely like a lab.

It is quite simplistic to attribute biting behaviour to dog breed. Any dog with teeth in its head can, and may bite, and those which do, usually do so for similar reasons - fear, insecurity, or indifferent/ineffective training. My city keeps a breed database of reported dog bites, and the most oft cited breeds happen to be the most common family pet breeds - golden retrievers, shih-tzus and bichons. (There - I had to stick up for lab crosses, one of which thinks I am a supreme goddess!)

Legally, dog owners are held responsible when their dogs misbehave. Too many fail to realize that responsible ownership isn't just a polite way to treat nameless strangers in the park - it also protects you and your own dog. An acquaintance witnessed an off-leash dog run into the street adjacent to one of our dog parks, and get run over by a car. Not only did the owner lose a beloved pet, but the motorist sued and won for the damage done to his vehicle.

No lab encounters at the park, but I had a discussion inside the fenced area where my two and about five more were playing nicely. One guy had a JR beagle mix, 30 pounds, and he was encouraging my ball loving dog to interact with his dog. They played awhile and I told them the problems I was having with unleashed dogs and that I carry a club now. About 15 minutes later I was walking the Dachshund and sure enough his dog Molly and a huge German Shepard were running loose on the walking path. I had no idea who the Shepard was and never saw the woman before. Guy said ..it's okay, they were just in the creek. No dogs came near mine and there was no barking ,but I said to them...you are breaking the law and walked on. The GS was large but apparently okay, but how the hell was I supposed to know that?

The thing about idiots, they think everything is not their fault.

I'm sure the woman with dogs I encountered thought I was nuts and mean.

I guess I'm spoiled. People in my area tend to keep their dogs leashed (and would probably get ticketed if they didn't). I don't do the dog park at all--I prefer controlled dog-to-dog interactions because I'm a such a dog newbie. (My dog does get dog play when he's boarded and he's very good with all the vaccinated personality-screened dogs.)

It's about to get worse. Shock collar "trainers" are lobbying to try to get shock collars allowed as leash alternatives.

One shock too many (dogs mostly learn by association) and a leash-less dog walking by might have had enough and latch onto the perceived cause of their pain (whatever they associate the shock with). This could be you or your child or your dog. Not to mention a shock collar isn't nearly as reliable as a leash and the poor shocked dog might run in front of a car.