I welcome you to the pet forum.I'm the poster that has Sweet Pea and the gang.I come here to ask all my questions and get good advice.I'm touched that you mentioned us in your intro.Again welcome! Debbie

If you knew you'd need your "fire extinguisher", why did you post at all?

"My family has been in the breeding business for 40 years (Toy Poodles and then made a huge switch to Great Danes , and hubby's has bred GSD's for 55yr's"

poodles
great danes
goldens
shiba inus

& you're not a backyard breeder?

sylviatexas, sometimes breeders get tired of the breed for varying reasons, and want to make a switch. I wouldn't consider 4 different breeds across two people over 40+ years abnormal. From everything that cutencuddly has posted, she seems like a fairly reputable breeder.

My father started breeding GSD's and stuck with them for several years, but was distressed at the trends in the breed, and stopped breeding them. He now assists his wife with her line of Scottish Deerhounds. My mother started with Saluki's, and then switched to Shih Tzu's. The principles are essentially the same when breeding dogs, although obviously there are things and points of concern that are specific to each breed. What would concern me is if one breeder was breeding multiple breeds at the same time...but switching breeds over time is not unheard of in the breeding world and is not a big deal.

And by the way, welcome cutencuddly. You're right about wanting to keep out your fire extinguisher. There are unfortunately some people in this forum that are ready to lambaste ANY breeder, and will not make a distinction between those that are reputable and those that are backyard breeders or puppy millers. As someone with some experience in the dog show world, I know where you're coming from, and I try my best to inform others here, but realistically, there are those that just don't like any breeders at all. There's also a lot of false information and misunderstanding about the show world, which is hard to combat.

It doesn't help that we have some members here who are quite clearly backyard breeders talking about breeding their animals; it gets people up in arms, unfortunately.

She & her husband have been selling dogs for 40 & 55 years;
that's not a 'hobby', that's a business.

If she were talking about a real hobby, if she 'got tired' of one breed, she'd, oh, I don't know, learn how to quilt or play video games...
you know, something where she didn't sell animals.

I have no particular opinions about dog breeders but I got the creeps reading the OP's post. Kind of like reading a post that turns out to be an advertisement for something they shouldn't be selling. People who are that defensive with strangers are usually up to something.

We will need to wait and see.............

I don't think OP's intro is anything other than what she says - an introduction. I, too, welcome you and your opinions, cutencuddly. Even if we don't agree with stated opinions, the opinions should be welcomed. Dog shows show the world the wonderful world of dogs and all the different breeds and their purposes. We wouldn't have that without responsible breeders. Of course there are people who breed dogs for the wrong reasons, but there are also people dedicated to breeding the best dogs they possibly can. I look forward to your contributions.

Welcome, I don't have any opinions about responsible breeders ... I just don't buy dogs, I adopt mix breeds. And not the new "designer dogs" either. LOL!

I agree with murraysmom .. since I believe everyone deserves a chance.

to Sylvietexas:

I posted (and it was a joke about a fire extinguisher, maybe some didn't get that but as I said I had lurked a while before posting and had seen other responses!)

To reply to your remark about the many breeds.. we had toy poodles only when my Mother was alive (she passed away when I was 8 years old, my father being 6'5" tall was not a fan of the breed because of his height he felt as walking them he was just walking a leash!) so he spayed and neutered the 3 we had and re-homed them to good families and the one set went to one family lived to be 22yrs old, but I'm sure someone will find something wrong with that too. C'est la vie! They were happy & healthy living out their lives and we did visit with them from time to time! Then a few years later, we visited a local GD Breeder (who's still a friend of the family and guess what she no longer does GD, she does BOXERS!) and we had 4 Danes , My hubby's family ONLY DID German Shepard's, and did so for 55yrs, well into his retirement, some wonderful litters were produced by them. He slowed down, rehomed many of the older/retired dogs who were loves to friends and family who wanted them when my mother in law passed away in '92!

My hubby & I have gone into dual animals (that makes us BYB's?? that's weird I know many very reputable breeders who do 3/4 breeds. I personally think attending to making 2 at MOST breeds better is more than enough, but again c'est la vie.. isn't MY choice!

We fell in love with the GR Breed and how loving and caring they are, so playful no matter the age. With their larger litters, we try to NOT breed more than once a year and some years we have skipped! The Shiba, I originally got as a pet (with full reg AKC) b/c I loved them, they're so clean and while they are a more dominant dog, they definately are loving.. giving kisses etc. I visited a Shiba Breeder through AKC locally, and learned everything I needed to know, and they have smaller litters.

I'm not advertising, I've got nothing to sell and wouldn't sell in this type of forum anyhow. A legitimate Breeder works on word of mouth, by previous litters/puppy owners! I'm just here to share and gain advice (believe it or not I don't know everything... nor do I claim to be a *know it all*!) I came for friendship, common interests (animals - they are my loves/my babies!), and informational stuff local to me that may help.

If you'd rather I will go back into lurk, but I felt kinda like a nosey-nellie and should be part of the conversation when I feel I can help than sit back and watch!

I'm sorry to offend anyone!

J

Well, i'm mostly a "rescue" person as I see all the poor dogs at the shelters whom no-one cares about but i don't feel that all breeders are bad.

I bought a bouvier from a reputable breeder (i think) and i bought a GSD from a questionable breeder. Both were spayed at 4 months since i take no chances with that stuff.

But each forum has a personality and this forum is mostly for those who are sympathetic to the plight of the shelter animals.

You might be more comfortable with another forum. Maybe a breed-specific forum. I post on the Shar Pei forum and there's a place for rescue and a place for breeder questions.

But i ain't around much anymore anyway so who cares what i think?? no one that i have noticed.

Well, I think it would be our loss not to hear what you have to say from time to time. No one poster is better than another and I like hearing ALL sides of the story. Sounds like you would have experience with a few breeds and who wouldn't want to get your perspective on things. Yes, most of us look to rescues first, but that doesn't mean the rescue you get couldn't be a pedigree dog!! I say stick with us!!

Yes, definitely don't be put off by some of the posters on this forum.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some just express theirs more strongly and unkindly than others. :>)

I mean - really - without breeders, there would be no breeds!

Dogs were bred to assist man - maybe a toy breed or maybe the working breeds. They're all wonderful.

There is a social cost to irresponsible breeding and i wouldn't breed but some do it well.

You sound like someone I could enjoy as a next door neighbor.

I worked for a vet years ago and saw lots of breeders. One raised Pekes. She sold only show quality pups(neutering and giving the others to good homes(through the hospital). She would get several hundred dollars for a pup---in 1962.

Most times she was drunk. 8AM often. I never saw her mistreat a dog or shirk their care. Don't know how she did it.

Just shows how some breeders do well in spite of the norm.

Watch Westminster---breeders often change breeds. Not unusual at all.

I would like to welcome you to the forum as both a pet owner and a responsible breeder. There just aren't enough responsible breeders out there and it sounds like you are doing a great job. Maybe if you stick around long enough, people will learn the difference.

I am mostly a lurker here too, but need to jump in on this one....I have never bought a dog from a breeder, nor will I.....have had all rescues in my life (partial to those retired racing greyhounds!)...but I would hope that everyone on this forum is here for sound advice at different times, and the more opinions and "experienced" opinions we can get here, the better ! So I welcome anyone here who is willing to share tips, opinions and advice!

Hi i`m a lurker also, but need to say something....do you ever think of the poor animals in the shelters that need homes .breeding more is just an excuse for wanting money, I feel that if we all kept getting from shelters we wouldnt have all those poor homeless animals, I have two from a rescue and love them very much

The animals in the shelters for the most part aren't coming directly from the mills. The owners are the ones surrendering the animals or their litters because they refuse to spay/neuter. Why should someone that prefers a particular breed have to take on the responsibility of cleaning up the mess? It's the same mentality of all these people having children they can't afford and dumping the financial burden of raising them on the childless through endless taxes. Why don't you all adopt and support these kids instead of adding to the problem by creating more?

There aren't enough restrictions on breeding and the breeding business. Animal lovers are widely being taken advantage of from the enormity of unscrupulous breeders. There are a few responsible breeders and they shouldn't be chastised because of the irresponsible. It's very difficult to tell the difference between the two, so why don't you give the OP a chance and try to learn the differences? She could probably add quite a bit of knowledge to the discussions, given her background, and maybe save a few from getting a dreaded mill pet. You guys just aren't being fair.

kittens, you're on the right track;

allowing pet dogs & cats to breed is irresponsible & adds numbers to the population.

Breeders do the same thing.

& the pets that they sell take up homes that could have accomodated a homeless animal, so, while breeders aren't *directly* responsible for the deaths of shelter animals in that they aren't killing them, they're a big part of the problem & they *are* responsible for their part in it.

I find this hard to believe when someone tried to introduce themselves as a breeder and she gets jumped on for this. There is nothing wrong with being a reputable breeder. If this is what she does and does it with her dogs being the prime concern please do not make her feel like a low life BYB or PM. If you want posters to feel comfortable posting here with their opinions and what they do make make them welcome and and listen to their opinions even though they me different from yours. Isn't this what an open forum is all about? I'm not sure if I shud even post this as I know it will get a negetive response but I get so tired of having people blasted for not having the same opinions as the regulars on this site. Enuff said. Thanx for letting me vent and have a go at me if you like.

That's not necessarily so, though. If I wanted to adopt a puppy and had a preference for a particular breed, I would seek out a responsible breeder (amongst the sea of backyard breeders) and find myself a healthy pup. It would have all the proper screenings and it's lines tested. It's not one option or another. I just wouldn't get a dog. The shelter dogs are wonderful for people and can make great pets but they just aren't for everyone and that should be recognized. Not everyone gets a dog for the sake of having a dog, they have preferences to what they like. A lot of people don't want to take the chance of the unknown with the health of their animal. A responsible breeder's animal shouldn't ever show up at the shelter, either, so what does that leave up for adoption? I've already done the sick pet thing and it's not an easy road.

I don't believe that most people should be allowed to breed. It's a horrific, unstoppable business leaving thousands and thousands of abused, sick animals and insurmountable heartache for the owners adopting these animals. However, the few that are doing it correctly deserve the support. Isn't that what we all want, healthy pets?

I think the OP has dropped back into lurking mode if not entirely left the forum! That's a shame that her nice introductory post got hijacked this way. Sorry about that, J, and also for the loss of your pets. That must have been very hard for you losing them both within a week of each other.

My breed of choice is the English Bulldog. I have bought two from respectable breeders. My most recent one I bought last year after my old girl died. As much as I would love to rescue a dog, its a tough choice to make. English Bulldogs are known as medical nightmares. The ones that end up in rescues have all been backyard breeder or puppy mill dogs. A respectable breeder will take their dog back no matter the age to avoid it from going to a shelter.

We have been looking to get a friend for my girl. I got a call from the rescue last week. They have a one year old male. Someone was obviously trying to breed mini bulldogs (no such thing). Poor little guy had two bad knees which were ignored until the rescue got him. Because he never had the back legs fixed, he put all his weight on his front legs, now they are bowed out and he will have problems with them for the rest of his life. He already had his nose and soft palette surgery because he could not eat and breathe at the same time. AS much as I would love to take the little guy (I met him and hes sweet), my DH is afraid he will bankrupt us. Most of the english bulldogs that end up in rescue are in very bad shape.

I do not want another breed. For many reasons the English Bulldog fits my lifestyle and my needs. Without reputable breeders we would not have a dog. Dealing with sick animals is not easy.

I do think MOST people should not breed. But I do not lump good breeders in with the bad. I also think that if someone wants a dog, they should do the research so they will know how to spot a backyard breeder or a puppy mill. Its really not hard. Educate the ignorant masses and do not yell at the reputable breeders. They are not part of the problem.

The problem lies with stupid people, too lazy and impatient to become knowledgeable enough when looking for a dog. People that just go into pet stores and pick what they think is cute; without bothering to learn the difference between high energy breeds and lower energy ones. If they did a little research they would know better than to even walk into a pet store or answer a sign that says puppies for sale.

I am so sorry , i didnt mean to hurt anyone ..I just wanted to give my side of the story, I love animals and you do what you want ...so sorry if i made you feel bad....

I'm right there with kittens and beegood... While adopting is a nice thing to do,IT IS CERTAINLY NOT FOR EVERYONE! Some people do have preferences,or prefer a puppy to an older one and that is THEIR CHOICE.
I bought my Chi puppy from a reputable breeder and I will not apologize to anyone. He is the most joy in our lives to have!
We tried the adoption route but couldn't find one who really suited us.We wanted a pup who we could bond with from an early age,and who would be just OURS from the start and no one else's.
People need to realize it's not always "their way or the highway".Different strokes for different folks.So long as they are responsible and not hurting anyone.Lay off the guilt trip people!

No, sorry I had stepped away for a few days as I was unwell, no one "drove" me away! I'll put my input in where and when I can, but I won't bring up anymore breeding's. I know you all want to blame ME for the over-pop in the shelters, but I've truly never seen locally a true *purebred* dog that was up for adoption! We've tried (and had a couple at one time 2 spayed female lab/shepard mix pups) but adoption around here you have to jump tbrough loops and pay fees with no garantee they'll pick you. I have kids, I've gotten a no way they're too young (at the time I had two and mine were 4.5 & 3.5 and we'd be fine w/a puppy but answer always no, over an acre almost 2 of land fenced so they can run while we're our with not good enough(this was a home inspection where we were turned down by shelters when we tried to help an unwanted dog, even a puppy where we'd pay a deposit for spay/neuter if not already altered, rescues of pure-breds are even more strict and basically have to give a pint of blood for a rescued dog (they usually don't get puppies.. generally what we saw we owners who should've been shot on site for what they'd done to these sweet innocent things!

I went through very reputable AKC breeders, not puppy mills, or BYB which turn my stomach knowing the conditions in a PM and lack of knowledge w/a BYB. Someone said I do it for the money, honey.. I offer a lifetime guarantee w/my pets sold, and anyone close enough to bring a puppy back to me even middle of the night... should they be very concerned about something going on with the Pup and I'll take it to MY vet's and eat the Bill (I won't pay costs should they go to their own vet however as they had the option to bring it to me!) I raise my dogs & Puppies on good wholesome food, no junk kibble. Icelandic Salmon Oil, Nu-Vet Powder/tabs(treats) for their long term health and add joint plus as they get older as a "just in case!" The nursing/whlping Moms are supplemented with scrambled eggs, cottage cheese, steak, venison, salmon,what ever left-overs we're having that's aren't "bad/unhealthy" (think years ago Dogs LIVED off table scraps and they lived long healthy lives.. longe before"kibble" started! - which is a rarity - most try to feed some of "lesser quality/cheaper brands"/ wevfeed Merrick Whole Goods to the Puppies, and Merrick Before Grain Salmon generallu.. but have switched it up w/ other BG Flavors.. etc and are soothed by music and me (and/or hubby who works a full-time job to pay for things because a GOOD and PROPER Breeder makes little or none, and I've even lost income making sure everything is properly cared for w/ my OWN dog as well as puppies brought to me, but I brought them into this world, carefully and they're MY responsibility and I stand BY it! I offer micro-chipping as a service, but am seriously considering making it part of my program unless someone objects! Then that's their choice! The place I got my Shiba's from was VERY helpful in helping me learn even more (every day I take as a new learning process!) in pampering my own babies as well as making sure THEIR babies also reap the benefits of it all!

J (who's glad she came out of lurking mode even if my choices don't make everyone happy.. I've learned I can't make even 1/2 the people.. I am who I am and do what I do. And AM a Pet Owner don't make my animals live outside in Kennels like most kennels do, they're part of our family and are treated as such with hugs, kisses, lovin', and lots of care'

2

cutencuddly, you make a very good point. I don't have a fenced in yard and I would be very limited as to the rescue/shelter that would adopt to me. I am home most of the time. My dogs get walked at least four times a day, more when it's nice. They have dog friends and the neighbors who love them too. Some shelters are just too strict when it comes to letting their dogs go. I have a friend that lives on 100 acres and they wouldn't let her have a dog because they didn't have a fenced in yard. That is nuts! So while it would be great to adopt from a shelter, they don't always want YOU. What can you do?

I think "J" is here to sell dogs.

Funny betsy, I find your post humorous as /i currently have no animals bred, or in the near future or have any litters waiting, I'm not sure what gave you that impression! I have no intentions on even trying when i; have no one here I want to sell to if and when I have some pups to share. Why because I share my guarantee etc?

Think what you want as I've said before but like I've said I'm here for friendship & take each day as a new learning experiences and this is what this is for! Nada more..

J

Take it with a grain of salt J...You don't have to defend yourself to anyone.There is no law against what you do.

Hey there , Cutencuddly

I do animal rescue, but I have also come to understanding that there ARE responsible breeders, and their services are indeed desired by the public.

Although I care about shelter animals and urge everyone to go adoption route - especially since the shelters are full of not only adults and animals with medical issues,but babies: kittens and puppies. I have seen the most beautiful pups and kittens at the shelter, and I myself fostered Siamese mixes (all kinds of points!), Himalayans, Maine Coons, and so on and so forth. I personally do not understand the desire to have a specific breed - but I cannot speak for everyone, and I cannot judge anyone based on my choices and preferences...

I grew up in a country (Russia) where people are rather superficial towards animals - having a mutt is just not cool..It is heartbreaking going there, with puppies and kittens everywhere, getting dumped. People do not spay and neuter, and discard their often purebread animals to fend for themselves. It is disgusting - having had this experience, my heart and soul is with rescue animals. No creature should suffer as much as some of these poor animals do...

BUT, but, to each their own. People in this country are just as interested in mutts, and a good percentage still goes to the shelter, looking to adopt.

I think we all jump to extremes and like to judge others. As an example...Rescue people are quick to blame the responsible breeder for every animal in the shelter, same way the regular folk love to blame ALL feral cats on TNR people (who try rather hard to bring the numbers of feral cats down) Same thing - both groups are easy to target and to blame.
And interestingly enough, the common variables for both of these examples is....STUPID IRRESPONSIBLE people discarding their animals,and not fixing them (and who have nothing to do with neither responsible breeders nor TNR people)

In any case, hello and welcome

I know you all want to blame ME for the over-pop in the shelters, but I've truly never seen locally a true *purebred* dog that was up for adoption!

I wouldn't lump all of us regular posters to this forum into that category. I think most here have been very welcoming. You seem to have started out a bit defensive, but that is understandable.

I don't blame all breeders or "you" as you put it, for the overpopulation of shelter dogs. However, I do blame many. Having managed an HSUS shelter for a number of years, I can absolutely tell you without a doubt that there are an extremely high number of purebred animals in shelters up for adoption - over 40% of all animals turned into shelters are purebred. That is a nationally published statistic. I have had to track down tattoo numbers, phone numbers, microchips and call the breeder (yes many were AKC registered breeders, and many of the dogs were surrendered with papers). Most of the time they would NOT come and retrieve the dog.

That is usually where a breed rescue steps in. There are several very good breed rescues with great reputations. There are others who are not "legitimate", and there are some breeds who have NO rescue at all.

I DO fault the AKC for not having very stringent sanctions against ANY member who will not retrieve a dog they bred from a shelter. I think their membership privileges should be revoked. Any group that forms, and has "Club" in their name (AKC, CKC, take your pick,) absolutely has the ability to set standards and membership bylaws.

I don't care what condition that dog is in. If they bred it, they should come retrieve it. If the breeder won't, they should be kicked out of the "Club". I think the AKC should require that all of their local breed clubs provide a rescue group for any surrendered registered animal. If the club won't provide one, the should no longer be allowed to bear the AKC name.

However, that being said, that does not mean you are the AKC. I've met a few reputable breeders in my time they have a lot of good advice to offer as far as animal welfare. As an AKC member, you do have voting rights. I would encourage you to encourage all of your co-members to create and support new club bylaws to tighten club memberships.

You're right, I don't like you because you are a backyard breeder. People like you contribute to the suffering of animals and yes it is horrible.

Personally I think every backyard breeder ought to have to be present when a litter of puppies is put euthanized along with their mothers at the pound each and every time they sell a litter they've bred on purpose.