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Need help in eliminating two things please

Posted by smig26 (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 10, 10 at 13:52

I need some input please.

I have a 7 month old puppy. She used to wake me up 3-4 times a night to potty. That since dropped to one time and is gradually going back up to 2.

We go to bed around 9-10pm. First, she would wake me up at 2-2:30am to potty and then sleep until or just about alarm time (6:30ish). Recently, in trying to eliminate overnight trips eventually...I was able to get her to lay back down until 4-4:30am and we go out then. I figured I could make it later and later and eventually she would be able to sleep through the night.

I think it has begun to backfire on me though. She does go out at the 4-4:30am, but is now also up again about an hour before the alarm. The 2-2:30am trip made me sleep better to be honest, but I figured we would never make progress that way. I feel more tired than ever, the mornings are pretty rough. Which way is going to help me in the long run?

The second issue we are having is eating bad things while on walks. My place is near a lake, so there are alot of ducks and geese that linger. With this comes alot of droppings. My puppy loves to eat it. Sometimes she will respond to "leave it!", but most of the time she doesn't. I am reading that puppies grow out of this. I don't want her to get sick from this, so I am considering getting a muzzle just for the walks and continuing to work on "leave it!" with things she gets in the house. Should I do that or try something else?

Any input is appreciated, thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

We have an about to turn 6 year old American Eskimo (born April Fool's Day). He and my husband go to bed at 10:00 p.m. and get up at 5:15 a.m. I am an insomniac so am often still up at 1:30 or so. When my husband is away I will take our guy out about 10:00 - and again before I go to bed whenever that might be - even 3:00 a.m. BUT at 5:15 a.m. there is that tap on my shoulder demanding to go out - and he of course wants his breakfast. I do feed him a snack at 3:00 a.m. or whenever I go to bed, but it doesn't help. 5:15 a.m. is breakfast time - period. I lurk on an Eskie specific board and others experience the same behaviour. Then just before my husband leaves for work at 6:30 they go out again and he has a huge wet. He is also a "hoover" on the street - there is absolutely nothing he won't pick up and scarf down. I can't believe he hasn't choked to death or died of some poison. He weighs 22 lbs. and has a Collie shaped face with GIANT teeth, but geez. I know what you mean about trying a muzzle - I did try a soft type of thing - New Trix I think it was called, but you would have thought he was being murdered. Same with his Muttluks - professionally fitted and his other boots PawZ - he screams "just in case" - and I can't put them on. So out there he stands on one foot, scarfing down snow, ice, whatever and wondering why I can't do something to ease the pain of the salt. So I wish you luck - and I bet you your pup wants his breakfast. With my dog, it is obviously that he just likes to eat - who knew that an Eskimo could have as voracious an appetite as a Beagle or a Mini Dachshund. Keeping his weight under control is a nightmare. Eskies never mature so I have given up on that. He can also tell time and knows when it is time for his mid-morning and mid-afternoon cookie breaks.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

Walking a dog should be exercise and walking, not browsing and bush sniffing. To properly walk a dog, the collar is located high on the neck, ideally with the top(leash connector or leash ) centered between the ears. The dog should be located with its head at or behind the leaders leg. And the leader walks at the most comfortable pace for them as briskly as possible. There is little actual pressure from the leash when the dog is trained to walk properly. Their keys are following the leaders body movements. The break times are simply for rest and or potty breaks for the dog.

Training any dog to walk properly can be difficult. But a month or even six spent perfecting the activity results in a lifetime of obedience.

The potty training is done to most comfortably acclimatize each individual dog. Crating the pup at night can work. But establishing specific times, keeping that routine and gradually lengthening the times are necessary. Illness/sickness can require altering, but go right back to the routine as soon as possible.

As for the Esky, I raised a Malamute without experiencing those problems, but have little experience with Esky's.

I also only fee once a day, and vary the feeding times. I do have a whippet mix now and have seen reports they need twice a day feeding. Molly has to have a lamb and rice diet and I have trouble keeping her weight down on once a day feedings.

I know of no reason to feed a dog twice a day.

Molly is also coprophagic(eats feces). There are several reasons advanced for this trait. Boredom, internal parasites, wrong diet, psychological problems, and other idesas.

Molly has no parasites, and seems only to do so when bored(more in the winter than warmer weather, for instance) Diet seems not to be a factor. She does seem to do it more when her digestive system is upset---she loves chewing on sticks. I always know when she does that, as she will regurgitate late in the day. I try to keep her exercised and monitor her chewing and that usually reduces the frequency of the problem.

With your pup, walking properly will not allow it to partake of the goose/duck problem.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

I feed my dog twice daily and he has access to food at any other time. He is a free feeder basically. But he is also a finicky eater. I have found if I feed him after a walk in the morning it stops him from throwing up bile, I also feed him around dusk...he is regular weight and does nto over eat.
WHile there may be a number of reasons your pup is eating things it isnt suppose to you need to remember puppies explore the world through their mouths. So you are bound to have some issues, it is normal. To get your pup not to eat something on a walk. when you see some offending matter coming up on the walk, and see your dog going for it, tell your dog, leave it and give it a small piece of banana. Many dogs suffer from lack of potassium and the banana can provide that. You should be teaching your dog to leave it anyway. If he is chewing on something you dont want him to say leave it, and give him a toy to chew on, tell him chew your toy...that way he knows what to do and what not to do.
The poster advising walks are not scratch and sniff sessions is correct. You should be walking your dog at least 20 minutes in the morning, when you return and before retiring. When your dog goes to the bathroom, give it a command, go pp or whatever you choose. When your dog dose finally go praise praise praise. One guy I knew used PARK IT, for #2. just pick something you would use one command for each business. PS - the more you walk your dog, the better. Walking stimulates all sorts of good things and helps fight bordom. Good luck and be patient. PS - feed your dog a good quality food. Not a grocery store brand.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

Dogs benefit from eating twice a day just like people do. The only reason to feed once a day is owner's convenience. There is no other reason. And if someone doesn't have time to feed a dog twice I day, I wonder else they aren't doing for their dog. Exercise? Stimulation? Sorry but the cophrophagia is likely hunger and boredom. Nothing else.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

What breed is she? At 7 months old she should be sleeping through the night.

Is she creating good, strong urines? Small, multiple squirts are an indication of a bladder infection, which would increase the need to empty the bladder. It is always good to rule out infections and disease, so maybe a trip to the vet for a urinalysis?

Is she crated? Dogs usually get through the night if they are actually sleeping, and crating encourages sleeping and housebreaking.

How late is she fed in the evening? I have to feed my Wilbur 4-5PM, or else he needs to get up at 4:30 :( I also cut his water by 7PM. So no food after 5PM, no water after 7PM. Last walk is 9:30 -10PM.

Is she serious about having to eliminate when she wakes you? Or does she poke around and try to "hang out?"? She should know that any outings between 10pm and 6am are for business only, not leisurely sniffing.

Is she exercised during the day? Playdates with other dogs? Interactive play with you (catch, fetch, tug, catch-me, etc)? That usually gets the beans out of Wilbur and gets him a good night's sleep. Consider a good evening walk a couple of hours after her last meal and before the last walk.

Hope all this helps.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

cynthia, I tried twice a day feedings, halving the amount. Both dogs tend to eat more and are much more restless when a feeding time is passed.

They are much more calm with the once a day----and I vary the actual feed times since I may not be able to keep a schedule. I can control weight much more easily, by feeding less on days when exercise level is lower and more on high energy days.

Come see my two, I doubt you will find any problems. The vets I use cannot.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

Handymac - really?? Once a day?? I have never heard of this. I am not being agressive or confrontational, I have just never heard of anyone feeding their dog less than 2 times a day!! You wrote you feed less on days when exercise is lower and more on higher energy days - do you mind expanding on that? Do you live in a place with regular bad weather where you can not take your dogs out for a twice daily run? I am curious about this...seriously. Do your dogs have issues with too much weight gain on 2 feedings a day? What kind of dogs do you have? Do they have issues with bile build up or blood sugar levels??? How much do you actually feed your dogs???
Thanks


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

Our dogs have always had kibble in their bowls full time once they were grown and none ever got fat. Our current lab is now almost two and until recently we fed her twice a day. Some days she doesn't eat at all (which I have always found true with dogs) and now we have her bowl filled all the time.

I don't know who decided that dogs must be fed twice a day, but I bet it wasn't a dog.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

I firmly believe a dog should walk by your side. I have won ribbons in dog obedience in the past. My problem with my new Chow Chow puppy is when I walk her in the afternoon in our development [it took awhile]she was starting to heel with me pretty good. BUT when I take her to the State Park I let her have her way cause I want her to sniff and enjoy the outdoors using the whole 6ft of leash and let her do what she wants without being so strict. Now when we walk in the afternnon at home she doesn't get the difference that I want her to heel. If I stay in my neighborhood I can have a well behaved dog but I do want her to enjoy the park. Can you enlighten me on some new ideas?


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

She is a miniture schnauzer. I think she is creating good and strong urines. I have thought about a trip to the vet just to be sure.

She is not crated at night, because I crate her while I am at work...so I wanted her to have the most freedom possible. She sleeps at the foot of my bed. I have begun to consider the crating at night though, because I haven't gotten a full nights sleep since October. I have tried a couple of times, but since it is different to her at night...she doesn't like it of course and barks/whines for hours. There are breaks, but she can go until at least 1am. Needless to say, I lost that battle. I don't know what to do, because I can't really keep having the barking/whining at those hours. I'm in an apartment and I don't want the neighbors to be disturbed.

She is fed between 5:30 and 6:30pm. I take the water away 1-2 hours before bed.

She's pretty serious about needing to go when she wakes me. Now that she can jump off the bed, one time she did so to go on the carpet. When I take her out overnight, it is strictly business. It is just everynight.

I do play with her and take her for walks. When the weather is nice, I try to make the walks as long as possible (within her limits), so she will be tired and want to sleep.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

mazer, I will be happy to expound.

First, I have had dogs, cats, and horses for half my life or more. Snakes, lizards, rats, and a couple birds for shorter times.

I worked for a vet for three years(early 60's) while in high school. I even performed the spaying operation on one of my most favorite dogs under the watchful eye and guidance of the vet. I have extensive experience in treating horses/dogs for various injuries.

My current dogs are a GSD/chow mix and a whippet mix. I am not able to walk either dog. So, I have to invent ways of exercising them. On bad weather days, when walking or exercising would be near impossible, it is a fact they do not need as much food. In fact, Molly(the whippet mix) often does not finish her food on days like that. Max, the GSD mix) has a much lower metabolism and does not need as much food, since his activity level is much lower.

When we got Molly from the pound, she was about 20 pounds underweight. It was actually painful to pet her, much less look at her condition. The pound was feeding her Pedigree, which is my dry choice. She has terrible issues with elimination. I wondered if the problem was just the instability of her circumstance, she had been difficult to catch, was afraid of literally everything and everyone.

Turns out the problem may have been some of that, but was mainly her inability to process beef/chicken products. We had her on twice a day feedings to put the necessary weight back on her, which very slowly occurred for about two weeks. I finally recognized her distress was digestive in nature(the only time in my experience with my dogs I had seen this) and put her on a two a day diet of lamb and rice.

In five days, she had put on too much weight! So, I cut the amount in half. The two a days had Max causing a problem when he did not get fed(he is the Alpha dog) and Molly was reluctant to eat when he did not. I started feeding Max along with Molly---halving his amount.

Both started gaining excess weight on a diet of Pedigree dry/canned mix. So, I went back to once a day(evenings) feeding schedules and they have no more anxieties or weight problems.

They both have lots of energy in the mornings, both vets I use feel they are at optimum weights and are in prime condition.

I run the house as a pack. I am pack leader, Max is second, Molly bottom. Nolly will not start eating until Max is almost finished, which is normal pack behavior. If Max were to attempt to take her food, she would( and did early on until Max accepted) fight for it. Again normal pack behavior.

Molly devils Max constantly when playing/exercising. H3e takes most of it, maintaining the Alpha position, but joining in for running/chasing/fun stuff. I have found Molly can do the running/prey drive activities by chasing soccer balls I am able to kick for her. There is enough room in out yard for her to reach full speed for short distances. She can 'catch' the balls, and pick them up to fulfil her instinctive drives. Shew ultimately destroys them and can play even more with the pieces.

Max is first a guard dog, and second a member of the pack. He needs Molly(he actually picked her out from several that were auditioned at the pound) to keep his protective edge. He was also a rescue, before the local police could get a warrant to seize and euthanize him as a danger to society. I rehabilitated him as a guard dog. The area in which I lived at the time made it advantageous to have a guard dog. My previous guard dog had finally made it to the end of his 15 year life.

I know what I am doing, Over 50 years of raising/training dogs proves that, at least to me and the vets I use. I raised a Malamute, a poodle, and a handful of mixed breeds of all types and sizes. Shorty, a chihuahua mix my wife fell in love with when he was a puppy made it to 20 on the same diet and feeding schedule I use now. Might have lasted longer, but cancer of the back end made it necessary to put him down.

There are many ways to train/keep/use/love dogs. I have never had free feed dogs. My DIL does. I never crated a dog until I got Molly. She no longer needs crating, but often sleeps by choice in hers(with the door always open now. I have had two a day feeding dogs. I always see if that is the best option. For the last several, it has not been necessary.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

smig,

Your dog should easily be sleeping thru the night. I'd have her tested for bladder infections and then do as elly suggested. Control her food and water intake in the evenings and then crate her when you go to bed. Put the crate next to your bed and give her a new chew toy.
Don't feel guilty about crating at night. She's had freedom all evening and there's not much difference between sleeping in your bed vs the crate since she's not moving around.

I have a gut feeling you're not being very firm enough with her. Work on obedience training, or take a class, and teach her that barking/whining isn't accepted.
Do you talk to her when she whines/barks and try to comfort her? If so, you need to stop and change your tone to a stern 'no'! The more you lovingly talk to her when she's misbehaving, the more you're reinforcing what she's doing.
Don't make the potty breaks playtime, but do give her praise when she goes. Also train her to go on command.


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

Handymac - thanks for the info. PM sent.
OP - good luck with your pup, keep us posted as to how things are going!!


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RE: Need help in eliminating two things please

Hey Mazer, I totally understand your question. But I only feed once daily as well. We did at one point feed twice daily, but we've found that they are sleeping better and more comfortable with a once in the evening feeding. We do give them snacks on occassion as well. We also chose evening rather than morning because Mocha (if he has a seizure - maybe once every 3 months now) has it in the early morning. Thus, we want to keep his blood sugar levels up through the night.

Note that even when it's feeding time in the evening, they don't just run toward the food bowl. Ginger goes and sniffs it to see if she's interested, and the other two eventually mosey up to their bowls as well. We think we've gotten to the point where we can guage how much is the proper amount over the past 8 or 9 years for each of them. Also, all 3 eat within 2 ft of each other, and never ever get "snappy" about their food.

Free feeding does work for some, but with Mocha's epilepsy and constant hunger from the phenobarbitol, it won't work for our gang. He would eat until he bloated -- simply he will never be "full". He would eat whatever the other 2 leave, and still want more.

It's not an uncommon practice at all. Some also feel that occassionally skipping a feeding is also not a bad thing.

In addition, I've read that if you feed twice daily, only feed them what they will eat within 20 minutes, then remove the food - especially during housebreaking training.

However, Mocha would scarf down anything left after 10 minutes by any dog in the house, and it would again lead to him bloating himself.

I guess they do also get a "snack" in the morning in the form of a slice of cheese. I use that as a pill-pocket for Mocha. Since at 10 am we yell "cheese!", they all 3 come running for "pill time". Only Mocha actually gets pills in his, but of course the other 2 expect something as well. Pill-time is a welcome event by my 3.. lol.. Same thing at 10 pm each night as well.


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