aren't these all questions you should have asked BEFORE you put these dogs together?

here we go again.

You can't be a responsible breeder if you are asking these questions. Are both these dogs yours? Did you do any health testing on these dogs? Responsible breeders search for a perfect match when they decide to have a litter.

You have asked some great questions. First try and get the female in ASAP - this should not wait at all. If she isnt pregnant she needs to get fixed as should the male - ASAP..otherwise any number of not great thigns can happen. Intact males often run away due to the urge to mate, this can result in any number of other than good outcomes.
As far as the female goes, as soon as her condition is determined, if she isnt pregnant and she is too young for surgery you NEED to seperate the two until they can have the surgery.
Sorry I dont have the whole story, but if these dogs are related then you might have all sorts of issues with the puppies, due to them being too close in relation to breed.
Next, since you asked - your food choices are not the greatest - Purina is loaded with fat, sugar and fillers, dont buy your pet food at a supermarket of big box store, buy from a pet store. Naatural Balance Limited Ingredient Diets are a great place to start - forget the yogurt and organ meats they may be high in some respects but they process waste materials and I never understood the appeal of eating an organ which processes toxins.
Next if the female is prenant you need to start finding homes for the pups and saving for all their shots and vet checks.
The reason you are getting the type of response you are is because there are over 1 MILLION homeless animals out there looking for a home...that is too many animals needing a home and who will probably never find one, ending up being euthanised.
I happen to think that anyone asking questions is at least trying to better things for their pets....I hope if the female is not pregnant that you take immediate steps to prevent a future pregnancy - any way you can. Good luck

the reason the OP is getting these responses is she regularly posts about her intention to breed her dogs and this is just the latest chapter. Lots of people here have repeatedly pointed out things to her like this "over 1 MILLION homeless animals out there looking for a home..."

but it just falls on deaf ears.... ninapearl said it - here we go again.

The reason I still post questions on this forum is that I always find good helpful answers among the hmmm - others.

Just a few things I should respond to: The male is 18 mos. and the female 3 yrs. Both are from good blood lines and not related in any way. I would never consider mating dogs with known genetic problems. The male will be neutered once the puppies come and the female spayed once she is through mothering.

Purina Dog/Cat Chow and Sam's Club store brand come highly recommended by every vet I have ever taken my pets to. As far as organ meats, mine come from our deer that we get every hunting season and our chickens that were free-range and completely organic. (We no longer raise them because it wasn't financially rewarding. We still have a freezer full though.) I would not eat nor feed organ meats from commercially grown animals.

That said, I welcome any responses from knowledgeable people and those of you who my post offends can simply delete -- I can't imagine why you would want to keep the thread going.

My oldest basset had puppies once.It was not a pleasant experinece for her and she was spayed afterwards when the time was right.In answer to your question about food,our vet said to feed her puppy food as it had the nutrients in it she needed.She continued with it until the pups were weaned.I don't recall what brand it was..

once again, you are ignoring some very important questions. have you health tested both of these dogs? i don't mean taking them to the vet and being told "yup, they're healthy." i mean genetic testing for unknown conditions, testing for good hips, no eye issues, etc.

what breeds are these dogs? unless they have been health tested, shown and well on their way to championships and unless you are breeding to BETTER THE BREED, they should NOT be bringing more puppies into the world which will be doomed to eventually ending up in shelters.

what part of pet over-population don't you understand??

I would love to keep this thread going so that everyone who reads here can see why there are so many animals put to death in shelters every year. It isn't just puppymills who churn out poorly bred dogs who will die from abuse, neglect, or the needle/gas chamberbullet... backyard breeders are a serious problem. You are a backyard breeder and despite attempts of many to educate you about the suffering you are contributing to you still feel the need to not only do it but then seemigly gloat about it. You knew the kind of response you were going to get here. I think you wanted to stir things up, like a troll, so now you have and since you asked for it you will just have to 'imagine' why this thread is still going. As if you didn't know.

Did you breed her to the really stinky male you tried with in June - around the time of your last litter of kittens?

sigh

Here is a link that might be useful: some of the basics by Ron Hines DVM PhD

How in the world do you know either dog is from "good blood lines"? You got the female from a backyard breeder and the male from Craig's List. Did you at least get the female's hips certified as you stated you were going to do in Feb '10? The male is only a year old according to you, so I know his hips haven't been certified.

I'm going to go pound my head against a wall.... it's more productive.

Absolutely a troll.

Absolutely a troll who only comes here to stir up people, and she succeeds. It's people like her who contribute to the over population of animals and the over flowing shelters. My rescued Dachshund from a kill shelter in WVA was a back yard breeder. When he didn't perform or got nasty with the other dogs, he was turned in to the shelter. He is a perfect specimen people have told me, so we're pretty sure that's what he was. He was neutered by the rescue group. which is what this persons cats and dogs should be.

I agree that she comes here to stir people up, but I figure the responses to her are educational for anyone who happens by and may not have realized how damaging it is to casually breed animals.

Of course, we all know that in her case it falls on deaf ears. She enjoys the puppies and kittens and that's all that matters to her. Only a seriously selfish person would continue breeding after repeatedly being told all the valid reasons why she shouldn't by the true animal lovers here.

Thank you 'kittens'. That is exactly the information I wanted. Good idea to cut out the yogurt but keep her on Purina One. And, no supplemental vitamins necessary --- thought so.

From the comments here, one would think I do this all the time -- the kittens were born from a pg cat we found. All are now fixed. This will be the only first and only litter of puppies and yes, we planned it. My comment about 'blood lines' comes only from the AKC information I have. Both dogs have registration papers.

Thanks again - the articles are extremely helpful!

Stinky male question: No we didn't. I gave that dog two baths in baking soda/peroxide and he still stunk! And the 'last' litter of kittens was the ONLY LITTER.

i could register my freaking goats with the AKC. what is the matter with you???

Carmen - why don't you Google the information yourself? You could have found the link that kittens provided yourself. The Internet is a big, wide world. You can do your own research. Just Google "pregnant dog," or something similar. There is no reason to continue to post your questions on this forum other than to stir up people. You are a troll. Otherwise you would do your research elsewhere instead of asking a bunch of people their "opinions." Do you want "opinions" or the facts? I hope the administrators of the forum see your e-mails for what they are - trolling behavior to stir up controversy. It is controversy because everyone tells you the same thing and you continue to defend your actions. Why do you continue to ask the same questions when you get the same responses over and over? Don't you think by now that asking this question on this forum isn't going to get you anywhere? How helpful is this forum to you when no one gives you answers to your questions?

Again, Google the information yourself. You would if you weren't trolling to stir up the forum.

From eHow - "a troll is someone who aims to cause emotional abuse to the participants of an online forum, someone who wants to ruffle feathers and stir the pot for their own amusement. They do this by planting inflammatory messages against a sensitive topic, disrupting and discrediting members who support the topic."

This sounds just like what you do.

Here is a link that might be useful: Troll

My comment about 'blood lines' comes only from the AKC information I have. Both dogs have registration papers.

Those registrations aren't worth the paper they're written on. It is NOT difficult to get a dog registered with the AKC -- and I speak as the daughter of a highly respected breeder and handler. The fact that you think that having those papers is the be-all and end-all of breeding shows your incredible ignorance.

Did you get their hips certified? Did you do ANY genetic testing?

I have no doubt that the answer is no. People like you make me sick. You make things difficult for reputable breeders like my father, because the general public just lumps all breeders together. You have no idea what you're doing, and you're a backyard breeder who is contributing to the pet overpopulation problem; you should be ashamed of yourself!

I pity anyone who buys any of your puppies.

There are currently 30,105 labs/lab mixes listed on Petfinder, including 16,801 puppies. That's just on Petfinder. There are a LOT more in shelters that don't work with Petfinders. If someone really wanted lab puppies, they are overwhelmingly available everywhere. Now, there will be 4-8 more who will need homes. That means that at least 4-8 more dogs in shelters won't find those homes and will be euthanized. Back yard breeders should be forced to visit their local shelter to help select the ones that have to be put down because of their contribution to overpopulation. Some still wouldn't get it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Petfinder Lab Puppies

Deja vu, T-R-O-L-L. You're having more puppies, more kitties . . . blah, blah, blah. Nice.

I was wondering the same thing, sephia. Why doesn't the troll google the info she wants instead of coming here to inflame TRUE animal lovers? The reason is she gets off stirring up trouble. Labs are a dime a dozen and now there will be 6-9 more. She doesn't know any more about breeding dogs than I do which is ZERO. AKC papers..what a joke. All her cats are outside ones and she "lets" them in a shelter when it's zero outside. Doesn't sound like an animal lover to me. I got my first cat decades ago many years before ANYONE was pushing neutering. He was the one and only purebred cat out of the 15 cats I've had..a seal point Siamese. I had him neutered at 5 months old. Why? Because I wasn't an idiot despite being only 22 years old. Everyone of my mostly rescued animals 15 cats and 4 dogs were neutered when very young(except this last one, a stud in backyard breeding who was neutered at 3 years old)

Those of you proclaiming the OPs intentions of stirring things up may be true but dont you see that you guys seem to be the only ones stirred up??
She may be posting to stir things up, get attention or any number of other reasons, the fact is we can not control people no matter how much they proclaim to be doing wrong or how they go about living their lives. YES it is a shame that these stories are a thousand a day - some people dont get it and NEVER WILL. You all know that is why we have so many homeless pets.
I sometimes think it would change people who chose to breed dogs like in this situation if they were the ones having to put a hundred dogs to death every week. Maybe then they would get it. But that will never happen. Lets either concentrate on helping and educating people and hope for the best or just leave it. If it irks you so much go over to Animal Debates to rant and rave.
I dont support the actions of the OP at all, but I dont see how berating her on this forum is going to have an impact on her future actions if "this has all been said before and ignored"
carmen - why wait to fix the male? when he can be fixed right away without issue? Have you had any blood work done or had the dogs x- rayed? If you are uncertain the female is pregnant take her into the vets - they can do a test to tell.
As far as all the vets in your area approving Purina One - seems like the vets in your area might need a bit of education in nutrition.
That you want to feed the puppies the organ meat from venison or organic chickens is fine, I would not give it to them daily though.
As for your comment on receiving comments from knowledgeable people - most everyone on this forum are highly knowledgeable - just because they choose not to answer you in the way you are wanting and they are concentrating on your behavior in breeding does not make them less knowledgeable...it just means they chose to focus on your behavior and it ramifications to the animals in your care. Good luck with your current situation. I hope for the sake of those pups you are willing and able to take the parents and the puppies to the vet for monthly
check ups.

And why does Gardenweb allow troll posts, when they delete so many other substantive posts?

I believe the OP said that they were only breeding the dogs once and then having them fixed. I think there is a market for purebred puppies. I also believe that some of you are going overboard in berating the OP. BUT, if I had a purebred and wanted them to breed than I wouldn't expect this kind of treatment.
I agree that there are too many pets in shelters that need to be adopted, as I am looking for a dog since my Ozzy (Rottie-Lab mix) passed away this past summer...and he was adopted from a shelter. My kids and I have decided on a smaller dog this time, we have checked the shelters but if we have to go to a breeder to get what we want, so be it. There were a couple puppies at local and not so local shelters that we were interested in, but they are already taken. We are interested in puppies so we can have them trained. I know there are plenty of older dogs out there that would be just fine, but we want a pup...I'm sure I'll be flogged for that, but I'm ok with it.
Right now I'm dealing with bringing my (deceased) mother's cat home to "hopefully" get along with my own cat (we couldn't bring ourselves to leave her at the SPCA, especially since we talked my mother into adopting her 8 years ago).
A puppy may have to wait until things between the two cats settle down. Most of the pups at the local SPCA are mixes, so we're not sure what we'd get. I'll try there first, but may end up going to a private breeder like the OP, at least I'll know what I'm getting in a dog.
Tara

GW can't read every message Betsyhac. If you are concerned about the content or intent of any post, copy the URL of the post, then scroll down to the bottom of the forum message page to 'Letters and Comments.' Use that form and select 'abuse of forums' in the dropdown. Then paste in the URL to notify the webmaster of the problem and ask that the offensive posts be removed.

I sometimes report spam posts, but not those that look like troll posts as those can be entertaining :) And yeah, since when does AKC registration have anything to do with breeding healthy dogs or sound temperment?!

Tara- Buying from breeders is fine if that is what you want. I think the issue here is that this is indiscriminate irresponsible breeding without much thought put into any of it. Anyone can get two labs together and the outcome will be lab puppies (hopefully) the problem is where did the parents come from, what are their blood lines, has the breeder taken the parents in for blood work, for x rays and the like in order to guard against medical problems like hip dyplasia, seizures, cancer, heart defects etc... You can go to any breeder and they can tell you anything you want to hear, but backing these claims up with veterinarians reports and carefully chosen blood lines can make the difference between thousands of dollars in vet bills and potential broken hearts and a healthy happy dog and contented owners. You are not necessarily guaranteed a good dog even with AKC papers - which means litle in the world of excellent breeders. Now with so many back yard breeders like the OP and puppy mills being rampant - you can pay thousands for a "pure bred dog" only to find it will grow up sickly or with huge problems. Even the Guide Dogs for the Blind are now mixing breeds and chosing mixed breeds as a regular part of their program due to the health problems of pure breds (most Golden retrievers and labs) which started to exhibit severe medical issues at maturity like seizures, cancer, hip dysplasia etc..they began to realize even with careful breeding these problems were cropping up too often. Imagine being blind and all of a sudden your guide dogs can not walk without excrutiating pain, or worse goes into seizures at 3 years old...they could not have it occuring as frequently as it was. It was costing them a huge amount of money in vet bills for treatments having to last 10 plus years and then they had to start training all over with another dog at a three year interval instead of a 13 year interval.
You are almost better off with a mixed breed dog from a shelter these days. The biggest issue in that respect is a behavioral issue and those can often be dealt with in a reasonable amount of time.
Recently people without care or consideration for any being involved started picking up dog off the streets, cleaning them up and selling them to unsuspecting people - those new owners were often finding themselves in the care of a dog who was knocking on deaths door and after spending thousands and going to extreme measures to save the dog it would die anyway leaving the owner heartsick and thousands of dollars less in their back accounts.
If you are going to get a dog from a breeder do your homework. The breeder should have information from people who have purchased dogs from them previously and those owners should be open to talking with you on the phone about how healthy their dog is. The breeder should provide you with veterinary reports on blood work and x rays and that information should be followed up by contacting the vet. The puppy should have papers advising of its shots and deworming and when it was done, there should also be an agreement if the dog starts to exhibit any medical issues within a certain period of time that monies should be refunding and the dog returned. The breeder should have no qualms about you being on their property meeting the parents - if they insist you pick the dog up at a local McDonalds or strip mall, claiming directions are too difficult - hang up and looke elsewhere.
Buyer Beware should be in the minds and on the lips of anyone looking to purchase a dog from anyone these days, all due to the indescretions of those looking to make a quick buck at the expense of the dogs and their future owners. Good luck.

"I think there is a market for purebred puppies. "

There is a market for purebred puppies but that market is being flooded by backyard breeders and there is no need for anyone to go to a backyard breeder such as this to buy a pedigree for the reasons mazer explained above. There are reputable breeders who know their breed inside and out, they know what genetic problems to test for before they breed the dogs, they know what a quality dog looks like and these are the ones they breed from, and they know what the dogs need before, during and after the birth in terms of diet, vet checks, shots etc. and possible birthing problems.

I have two pedigree dogs but I didnt get them so I could breed them or try to make a buck from selling puppies. The breeder of my dogs has produced numerous champions (not that matters to me) but she also knows everything there is to know about the breed and what responsible breeding from quality dogs really means. backyard breeders who put two random dogs together with no testing and no idea how to even feed the mother is someone just winging it and hoping for the best and palming those dogs off as "from good bloodlines" to unsuspecing buyers.

tara, i'll be blunt so excuse me. it's not only back yard breeders who are the problem, it's people who BUY from back yard breeders. you will be putting $$$ in the pocket of someone who should NOT be breeding dogs and therefore, you will be encouraging them to breed MORE dogs because all they see are dollar signs.

and when you buy from someone like the OP, you are fooling yourself to think you "know what you will be getting in a dog." these dogs are rarely, if ever, health tested. all you will be getting will be a cute puppy. period. you won't know about genetic issues and you certainly won't know about temperament that this cute puppy will inherit from it's sire and dam.

unfortunately, this problem will NEVER go away. it is a vicious circle because of people like the OP.

Many on this forum feel the way you do, 'singleton' but must private message so not to be flogged. When people come here, they will see extremely friendly, well-adjusted parents of the pups who were born in our family room. They will see them interacting with children and cats and will see they have the great outdoors to play and socialize in before they are adopted.

We will screen the adoptive parents: One couple who is very interested in our pups if and when we have some available are recently expecting so definitely won't be considered. (getting a pup to grow up with a new baby isn't wise -- attention to the pup will suffer - that is why our male was available to us at just 10 mos.)

Anyway, thanks for the help whether or not it appears on the forum.

tara, a good breeder will have few puppies for sale and you will usually be on a waiting list to get one. This is because they only breed dogs who have been proven healthy through testing and through knowledge of the health of other dogs in their line. They will be good specimens of their breed which is determined in the show ring and their reasons for breeding will be to improve the breed, not to make money. That means there will be few puppies available for sale.

People like the OP are the opposite of good breeders.They know nothing about the dogs they breed and are breeding for their own enjoyment of the puppies or for money. As others mentioned, it is important to avoid them so as not to encourage more irresponsible breeding.

There are lots of puppies to be found that others have adopted and decide they don't want for whatever reason. At that point, that puppy becomes a rescue regardless of where he originated. I would be careful getting a purebred from a situation like that because if his original breeder was a good one, the new owner would be required to return the puppy if it didn't work out. You may find a nice mix that would suit you, though. I got my papillon/maltese mix that way. I wanted something small and low shedding and when rescues get dogs like that, especially puppies, they usually have lots of people who apply for them. This was a good way for me to get a puppy I wanted without encouraging the backyard breeders.

mazer, this is why many of us respond to carmen. It's so people like Tara who read it can learn from carmen's bad behavior. If only supportive people answered carmen's posts, other readers might think indiscriminate breeding was acceptable. You never know how many people read here that don't ever post, so it's important to spread the truth.

Theres nothing worse than a backyard breeder, poor puppies!!!!

My last post on this thread. These two dogs are bonded to each other as best friends/companions and now are giving themselves to each other to extend their genes. There was absolutely no mechanical copulation here -- no stud brought in -- no artificial insemination as happens in the 'show dog world'. I always heard the term 'animal sex'. I now know that happens as it does in the human world, but there is also the other kind. 'Real breeders" have probably never seen this.

There is real affection between these two. They have their (foreplay) sessions where they run/wrestle/play. Then, and only when the female decides, they lock. After, they don't have a cigarette but they sure do enjoy each other -- licking ears -- and finally snuggling down together for a nap. We are surprised at the caring and affection these two are exhibiting because that isn't what we always thought animal sex was all about.

So, there it is. Thank you all and good night.

Carmen, that is the most laughable (if the result wasn't so sad) excuse for your irresponsible, selfish behavior you've given yet!

Too funny. So they are in puppy love. And that will guarantee healthy pups? What a joke. Backyard breeders are a dime a dozen, and any one with smarts avoid them like the plague. >>Tara..Go to Petfinder . There are many purebred dogs there given up by their owners. I have a gorgeous purebred standard dachshund who is the best looking one I've ever seen. I got him from a rescue group who makes trips to the south to kill shelters.>>And thanks for taking your mother's cat. I hope my kids would do the same if something happened to me.

The quality of affection between these two dogs would not be lessened in any way if they were spayed and neutered.

If the poster wants to inflame others on this forum, you are just giving it all up to her/him...
Tara, find a breed you might like and contact a rescue.

gee, my 2 female danes are bonded. they love each other very much. they eat together, sleep together and clean each others ears. they're both beautiful dogs with wonderful temperaments. too bad they can't have puppies together.

carmen, if your comments were not so ridiculous, they would be funny.

"There was absolutely no mechanical copulation here -- no stud brought in -- no artificial insemination as happens in the 'show dog world'. I always heard the term 'animal sex'. I now know that happens as it does in the human world, but there is also the other kind. 'Real breeders" have probably never seen this."

carmen honestly how do you know what "real breeders" do? and as far as the affection you see, it's hormonal, a female won't let a male mate her until she is ready and the foreplay is what they do, it doesnt mean they are soulmates.

"now are giving themselves to each other to extend their genes"

but the problem is you have no idea what is in their genes because you haven't had them screened and you have no knowledge of the previous generations of these dogs. Just because your dogs appear healthy does not mean they are not carrying the genes for genetic faults that can show up much later in their puppies lives - it's not you who will have to deal with that it's the new owners who will go through the expense and heartache down the road

Here's some really good information for the aftercare that you can be printed out for perspective buyers.

Here is a link that might be useful: by Drs. Foster & Smith

Did they have a glass of wine and a cigarette when they finished "making love"?

"Did they have a glass of wine and a cigarette when they finished "making love"?"

LOL! I have a female in heat right now and she is showing this same type of affection to my other female. she is putting her front paw around her and licking her ears, dancing and wiggling her butt in front of her, and doing anything she can to get her interested. she's hormonal and randy as all get out, and totally "in love", and is pulling out all the stops to get my other female interested. Carmen this is not some deep love affair she is experiencing and as soon as her hormones settle down she is going to be fixed and Im sure my other female will be relieved not to have to be the focus of this type of attention in the future. If she was a male, they'd be at it like bunnies.

Did they have a glass of wine and a cigarette when they finished "making love"?

OMG i hope not!! that would NOT be good for the puppies!

carmen, to give you an example...my male corgi was a finished champion when he came to live with me. he came from a breeder who bred ONLY finished champions. i got simon when he was 3 years old. when he was 9 years old, he developed the symptoms of degenerative myelopathy. this is a GENETIC disease that does not affect a dog until later in life. it is 100% fatal. early symptoms are lack of coordination in the hind legs. eventually, over a period of months, the dog will become completely paralyzed. it is a slow, agonizing disease that ALWAYS ends in death. ALWAYS. simon was my heart dog. putting him to sleep was pure agony. i will never get over it. and this dog came from a REPUTABLE BREEDER who simply was unaware of this disease affecting her dogs' bloodlines until her own stud dog died from it. obviously, after so many years, she could only contact those puppy buyers who stayed in touch with her. i was one of them. when i got the e-mail from her that simon's father had died of DM, i was frantic, for good reason. the DM gene was passed on to ALL of her stud dog's offspring. i, along with many others, had to suffer because of it. now, any corgi she has that she plans to breed is DNA tested for this gene.

if this can happen to a responsible, caring breeder, just imagine what could happen to dogs that come from back yard breeders such as yourself.

these human qualities that you are placing on your dogs are laughable. dogs mate. period. they don't give themselves to each other, they aren't falling in love, they aren't making love. they are having sex BECAUSE THEY CAN. and YOU are adding to the problem of the millions of dogs that are killed in shelters every year because there aren't enough homes to go around.

if you have any brain cells left, think about it.

I suppose they spooned afterwards, huh?

This has turned way too hysterical. Not the topic but Carmen's stupid description of doggy foreplay.

Carmen, Thank you for posting. As much as I was sickened reading what you have done. I believe this is a perfect example for what not to do. I wish this post could stay on top of the threads forever. I hope any one considering back yard breeding will see this and think twice before bringing more dogs into the world. I believe from my heart what you are doing is criminal. You know you cannot feed or provide proper vet care for the animals you have now.
You are a troll and animal hoarder!! I will pray for the poor animals.
This thread implores me to ask why animals are not required by law to be spayed or neutered before getting into the hands of someone like the OP?

this thread deserves a bump.