Hey, Carmen Grower 2007, I was going to respond nicely to your previous post about breeding your dog.......but then I saw this post and just think that you are an A**...get a life

I don't think anybody has ever made the claim that all dog show breeders are reputable breeders. Most reputable breeders are show breeders, but the reverse is not true.

People return these expensive dogs at some point when they realize they are flawed. What do you suppose happens to these little problem puppies?

A reputable breeder keeps those "flawed" puppies and raises the animals themselves, if no suitable owner can be found. No reputable breeder would EVER dump a dog in a shelter; the people doing that are crappy owners, or crappy breeders.

Many people would love to have a pure bred dog because of the characteristics of the breed but want a dog they can afford.

Then they need to realize that buying cheaply gets you what you paid for. You're more likely to get a dog that is poorly bred, and has health and temperament issues. Well-bred dogs come with a price, and for a reason -- the breeders breeding those animals put a lot of time and money into testing, stud fees, and health care. And the ultimate goal of such breeders is to create puppies that are as close to the ideal of the breed as possible. Breeding two pet-quality animals and calling the resulting animals "pure-breds" is quite laughable; it goes completely against everything that reputable dog breeders are trying to accomplish.

You seem to be confused about what a reputable breeder is, and why they do it. Just another sign of your ignorance and why you should NOT be breeding animals. And just because other people do crummy and irresponsible things is no excuse for your own behavior.

Carmen - where in the world are you getting your information on "probably half of all sheler animals are pure bred dogs coming from reputable breeders????" Do you have someplace you can site where you got you got your information?
Yes there are incidents of buyers of pure bred dogs dumping their dog at shelters and there are a number of reasons for this. Some people hit economiic problems, and yes sometimes there are defects *my buddy works for the sheriff and picked up a pure bred German Shepherd who was flown in to the US from Germany - he was dropped off because his lower lip stuck out too far making him less than show quality - the people who dropped off the dog should have contacted the breeder because most reputable breeders will take back an unwanted dog, the buyers were negligent not the breeder which brings up another issues, finding quality people to take your puppies. In most cases when there is a defect the buyer is the culprit not the breeder....Many of the returned dogs are sold to people wanting a puppy from a reputable breeder and are more intersted in a pet quality dog or an agility dog.
So yes there may be problems with breeding in even the best of cases - which makes what you are doing even more upsetting. I find it very interesting you chose to create a new thread instead of posting your retort on the the other thread..

Purebreds who end up in shelters are dogs sold as pets to people who ran into financial troubles (in these bad economic times these numbers are growing) and families who tired of their pet because they were not responsible enough to make a lifelong commitment to it. Also some purebred pet dogs end up homeless when their owners die. Most breeders would put down a pup with serious genetic defects if they were bad enough to preclude placing him in a pet home, but I know of none who would abandon a dog in a shelter.

As one who has volunteered in a shelter, I would say the number of purebred vs mixed breed dogs is probably closer to one purebred in ten mixed breed dogs. For puppies the gap between mixed vs purebred was larger with nearly all the pups we took in being mixed breeds. At least it was so at our local shelter when I volunteered there.

The AKC and UKC accept mixed breed dogs now in their comptetition. It is only one small part of the competition that the imperfect dogs are used -- Conformation.

I bought our dogs form reputable breeders. Ricky, the sweetest dog ever had feet too large for a golden retriever, so he was sold as a regular dog since he would not make the cut.

A reputable breeder may sell the "perfect" dogs for a huge amount of money, but many of us can afford the imperfect dogs. The ones that are larger or smaller than the breed should be is a good example.

My Humane Society, HSMO, has more pure breeds than most since we are in the puppy mill capital of the United States. But is not half by a long shot. Would you like a Shih Tzus, Pekingese, Silkies and Maltese dogs?? They will be ready for adoption soon. Did you see the Oprah show with the Yorkies last year? Yep, they were from the HSMO. Most of the puppy mill dogs they take ownership are from unlicence breeders and they get some other pets from hoarders. Would you like horse? Yep, they have them too. We just pasted a law to regulate licenced breeders. I wish Jefferson City had written the law better to punish the unlicenced puppy mill breeders. So until they do we will still will be the capital!

Here I am responding to the troll again. No good breeder ever takes unwanted puppies to a shelter.They find "pet" homes for these dogs and sell them at way reduced prices. My first dog was an Afghan hound of remarkable parentage. He had Canadian and English "relatives" and his grand father was the USA grand champion of the year., However this black dog had a few tiny white whiskers on her nose which could breed into a white spot I was told. I had to sign papers that I would get her neutered which I did. I like mutts and was looking for another one when I came upon this purebred Dachshund. A rescue group got him in the south. He didn't come with any papers although he was un neutered when rescued. We speculate another backyard breeder dog, but he's in perfect health and temperament and is gorgeous.

"You seem to be confused about what a reputable breeder is, and why they do it. Just another sign of your ignorance and why you should NOT be breeding animals. "

I totally agree, carmen you have no idea about how reputable breeders behave and that is very evident from your posts. I've known a number of show breeders over the years and these breeders care a great deal more about their dogs than any backyard breeder. You're idea of reputable breeders is so ignorant that you shouldnt be commenting on it because you just don't have a clue.

"Many people would love to have a pure bred dog because of the characteristics of the breed but want a dog they can afford."

Carmen - If they don't have a few extra hundred dollars to go to a responsible breeder, how are they going to handle the vet bills?

"Many people would love to have a pure bred dog because of the characteristics of the breed but want a dog they can afford."

so by making the dogs cheaper you think you are making them less or more disposable to some people? think about it.

Someone looking for a bargain priced dog, is also likely to be someone who can't afford the long term costs of owning a dog, or someone who is tight with money and won't spend the money on that dog when they realise how much it can cost. These are reasons why many dogs do end up in shelters - they get sick so they get dumped so how is supplying bargain priced pedigree dogs to people who can't afford the full price a good idea

Shelters are full of purebred dogs for many reasons - sometimes, it's due to owners who didn't do their homework before picking out a puppy. They brought home a herding dog and get upset when it nips the kids. Bring home a mastiff and get upset it drools all over everything. Buy a JRT and get upset when it won't calm down. Buy a lab and can't handle the first two puppy years. Yup, some people think dogs are disposable.

I've had a pet-quality doberman given to me by a great breeder because she had a few minor cosmetic flaws. Her paperwork was impressive but she was spayed and given to me as a pet - which was what I was looking for. I've also paid a fortune for a Shiba Inu I fell in love with. My latest rescues were relatively cheap (in adoption fees) but then I spent 2K on vet bills saving one's life. Pets can be very expensive, no matter how much you pay for them at first - so that's no excuse.

Carmen, you are just trying ways to justify being a backyard breeder. Labs are known to have hip and eye problems, but you didn't bother to get certifications. Yes, those two tests won't prevent epilepsy or other problems, but will reduce the chances of the most likely inheritable defects. If you had a true love of dogs and wanted the best chances of healthy lab puppies, you would know that.

To the OP, incorrect information you stated. A "reputable breeder" sells pups they are not keeping on a spay/neuter contract and dog must be returned to breeder if for any reason they can't keep the dog. The pure bred dogs in the shelters come from puppy mills and back yard multipliers.

Our male came from a very reputable breeder and the family who bought his ended up putting him on Craig's List in less than a year. May be anecdotal, but it happens often.

Not a reputable breeder if they sold the dog intact.

Today our newspaper listed 4 male lab puppies, 11 weeks old, free of charge.

Enough said.

Carmen wrote - "Our male came from a very reputable breeder and the family who bought his ended up putting him on Craig's List in less than a year. May be anecdotal, but it happens often."
The family who took the dog to craigslist in this case was the most negligent. The dog ALWAYS goes back to the breeder - period. The breeder should have been more careful in choosing the family and should have stayed in touch with them....
The point being, there is a whole lot more to breeding a dog then just appreciating their love making abilites and selling puppies. Finding loving responsible homes is a HUGE part of breeding. Keeping in touch with those families and making certain everything is goig well is a part of breeding. If the puppy the breeder sold is not doing well or the family has hit on hard times, it is the responsibility of the breeder to get that dog back if possible.

There is a forum for this:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/petdebate/

In our Sunday paper today ,there were 32 lab puppies for sale, and three older dogs were for free.

Plus the 30,000 available on PetFinder.

A responsible, reputable breeder has a waiting list. They do not need to advertise.

The shelters near us are not full of purebred dogs, they are full of pits, beagle-mix, lab-mix, terrier-mix.

My nephew bought a purebred puppy from a backyard breeder. It was 20 degrees out and the puppies were outside. He knew it wasn't a good situation, but he wanted to get at least one puppy out of there. The puppy had fleas, worms and now they've discovered it has a parasite. It had not had shots when they bought it, the "breeder" "hadn't gotten around to it". He seems otherwise healthy, fortunately. The puppy was sold intact with papers.

Responsible breeders (of dogs or cats) do certain things. They only sell "intact" animals with papers to other proven breeders (papers on animals too young to fix have their papers held until proof of neutering is shown to the breeder), they get excellent vet care, they are bred to minimize genetic issues and inbreeding, they are screened for issues where screening is possible (my cats' parents has their hearts scanned by ultrasound), they don't sell to anyone who walks in off the street, they require the animal be returned to them if for some reason it can't be kept, they do not breed their animals until there is nothing left of them.

Sue, In addition to withholding papers most Reputable/responsible breeders I know register pups they are not keeping with "Limited Registration". That means no offspring will be registrable. Also a number of breeders will rebate some of the purchase price upon proof of spay/neuter. Responsible breeders are not like multipliers their concern is for the breed.