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I don't want to be mean and angry

Posted by beeanne (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 13, 06 at 16:01

I truly do not want to be mean and angry. I know it serves no good purpose, so maybe if I vent right now, it will help me. Honestly, I am not an angry person in general.

I just can not fathom how anyone in their right mind can support pet stores that sell puppies and kittens. As another poster said on another thread, we speak with our pocketbooks and wallets. It's such a simple concept. I just feel like screaming that some people just don't get it!
Puppy mills will cease to exist once they are not profitable. I can't blame the people breeding for profit. They are just trying to make a buck. I blame us, the consumer who keeps them in business.
Ok, I'm better now. :-)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I don't blame you for being angry about this. It ticks me off, as well, and for the same reasons. I've seen the newsmagazine reports (20/20, 48 Hours, etc.), and it sickens me to see the way those animals are treated.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I don't blame you either. Anyone who really loves animals would not do anything to keep those horrible puppy/kitten mills in business.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Don't blame you one bit!

You should see the speech I gave about this subject...the audience said it sent chills down their spines and they would never get a dog from a pet store again.

The simple fact is that there are more dogs being born than there are homes.

Your unwavering passion deserves a round of applause!

It is hard not to be so passionate when we really know what is going on out there, huh? It really is too bad that so many people can't (or don't get the chance to) see the big picture. As they say...ignorance is bliss.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I wholeheartedly applaud your post. But I disagree on one point -- I personally CAN blame the people the breeding for profit. They should know better. There are better and more ethical ways to make money.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

beeanne - Don't feel badly. Nobody wants to be mean and angry, but some circumstances trigger those feelings in all of us. I am big believer in venting (just ask DH). I vent then it is over. I am infuriated by the pet store situation too.

While shopping in a mall recently, I noticed a pet store. They had the "bins" in the front, but it being a weekday, all the dogs and cats were in their cages. It was a total freak show. Every single dog looked sick, mangy, etc. I did feel sorry for the puppies themselves because they didn't ask to be milled, and could not imagine anyone putting good money out for those animals. I say this because they were not discounted animals. They were almost as much as I pay for a very well known reputable labrador breeder.

I was incensed. When I finally found the clerk it was a gal with about 30 different piercings in her face alone. She explained to me that they sell so many dogs, yada yada yada... I said, do you realize these are puppy mill dogs? Her reply? I don't know anything about that. These are great dogs. The twit was working in a place, selling $1,000 dogs and she doesn't know where they came from??? I wanted to scream at her. I took a deep breath and went ranting and raving out of the store. I have to admit, the anger stayed with me for most of the weekend. Now that I think about it, it was probably why I just posted on the apricot poodle post. Before today, I just couldn't even look at the posts by the OP without the surge of anger feeling all over. I guess I calmed down enough to day to chime in over there.

I think you are more than entitled to be angry. I don't think mean is good, but at least you are honest with yourself about your own feelings. I think it is hitting you so hard because you truly try to always do the right thing as do most people...

Take a nice long bubble bath tonight:-). It won't fix the problem, but it might make you feel a little more relaxed.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Of course there are a lot of people offering support, but as a single consumer at a single pet store, you really aren't impacting their bottom line, so maybe we need to discuss some alternative solutions.

My experience was that I used to frequent one particular pet store (they had terrific tropical fish and fish equipment) until they expanded to put in a puppy annex. UGH! I told the owners that I could not justify spending money with them when they were supporting puppy mills by peddling their puppies. They were fine with me taking my business elsewhere.

THe unfortunate truth is that puppy mills will continue as long as there are uneducated, uninformed or just plain stupid people that buy from them (or their retail outlets aka pet stores). Maybe the answer is to make yourself a regular presence in the offending store and one by one speak to people who are interested in a puppy and hand them literature regarding the horrendous conditions in puppy mills. It will probably deter a few additional sales until the owners have you physically removed from their store. Maybe work with a local rescue group or SPCA and have a puppy buying seminar on weekend in the parking lot in front of the pet store? The bottom line is we need to educate the consumers who do not know any better. Most of the people who do support puppy mills/farms probably have absolutely no clue what the reality is and are too lazy to do any research, hence the end up at a pet store. I find it hard to believe that once someone is made aware of the conditions that the puppies parents are living in they would agree to financially support the business moving forward.

Better yet. Change your local laws to require all potential pet owners to take a class in responsible pet stewardship that is conducted by a rescue group or SPCA. You cannot change the world without changing your own little piece of it.

Alexa


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

caliloo, I applaud you for taking your business else where, even though you loved their fish.If more people would do that it would make a huge difference.
My own sister use to shop in one of them until I realized what she was doing. She thought it was perfectly ok as long as she didn't buy a puppy. Things she was shopping for could easily be bought anywhere with a pet isle.
As far as getting out there and protesting, I'm no longer able to do that. Pretty much, what I can do is what I am doing. Venting on a message board.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Well said/vented beeanne. I always do my best to educate people about puppy mills and I agree if people keep buying the pet shop pups the mills will continue. It is the impulsive buyer that will not wait for the pup from a Reputable Breeder that is generally less expensive with extensive testing, a health guarantee, return at any time for the life of a dog, thus puppy mill dog is purchase.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

beeanne-- don't underestimate the power of these message boards. If you go to the kitchens or bathrooms forums, you'll see threads there concerning a CBS News story on a tile grout sealer called Stand N Seal (the kitchens forum thread listed below). Because of people who were injured by this product a little better than a year ago coming to a message board that several other tile pros and I frequent, we were able to make enough of a stink to get a nationwide recall made of this product. In addition, we were also able to become a national "meeting place" for people afflicted by this stuff to get information on symptoms, as well as where to go for legal information and representation.

Don't underestimate the power of these forums. People can make a real change with them!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Stand N Seal Follow-up


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

It is o.k. to be angry over a situation. My argurment with you is you seem to stay in that mode and you have such passion about this subject, why don't you take that anger and put some muscle into it? Laws can be changed by people like you. I tried to motivate my students when I was teaching to do something instead of whine. Alot of these forums are just that. Or, am I just not getting it? Is this just a "sound off" forum or a "whine forum"? Stand up for what your believe in, through your local media, newspaper, etc. Expose your local puppy mills, petstores etc. Beanne, this post does little good, well, maybe some, but not as much as it would if you were to put that anger into action in you own hometown. Can you do it?


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Steve, you seem to know me and what I have done in my life to stop the puppy mills. Do I know you? I have stated that I can no longer do much more then vent. I never said I never did anything in the past.I am not a whiner, I am a venter. :-)
BTW my hometown is not the puppy mill capital of the world. Far from it. I don't need to expose anything here. Thanks for your advice anyway, but I don't care only about the dogs in my own little space.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I have to admit, I totally clueless to puppy mills before I bought Cody. Then the word was popping up everywhere. The more I thought of the kennel I bought him from, the more I realized that it was being turned into a puppy mill, too, on a smaller scale. Four years ago they did purebreds but now they are doing the designer doodle type dogs that have become so popular.
I can't imagine not having my dog in my life but I am ashamed to have supported a puppy mill. At the time I just didn't know about them. The dogs in my childhood were beagles my dad got for rabbit hunting and I babied. Later, it was shelter dogs or an occasional stray that showed up and stayed. I had a Peke show up at my house and stayed with us for 6 yrs. Never could find her owners. And we did try.
It would be a perfect world if the puppy mill dogs could be rescued from the horrible living conditions and be shown that humans are not all unkind. Please don't bash me for having a soft heart for dogs.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Nothing wrong with being mean and angry over pet shops and puppy mills.

I do not and have not for years purchased anything at a pet shop that carries puppies/kittens.

I don't ship at Wal*Mart either as their fish are in horrid shape and they don't care to clean up their fish department.

I buy my premium pet food at a local small business that doesn't sell any animals of any kind.

Education and enforcement of existing laws are both key to this fight. Support organizations to take action against puppy mills, let your government representatives know how you feel about them and about animal welfare in general.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

beanne, Yes. points in your post taken.
dirthappy, and all others who have supported a dog in any way, no bashing here. Kudos to you, friend. We learn from our ignorance. Those who have knowledge-- let others learn by your understanding, direction and information with compassion. People will be more responsive.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Venter, O.K. You are one passionate lady. My wife and I were saying we wish you were in some of our classes when we were teaching. Oh, to get those students motivated! Just don't give yourself an early heart attack.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Dirthappy, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. Just keep on loving your adorable Cody. God bless you both.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

10 or 15 years ago puppy mills were being exposed all over the place on national television. I have to admit to being a huge TV watcher, but have to say in these last years I haven't viewed much on this subject at all. So call this a sound-off forum or a whining forum, whatever... it doesn't matter because it brings the subject to light yet again.

After getting access to the internet I've learned a great many things that otherwise wouldn't have known, and I'm sure this is the case for many others. There are times I have cringed from hindsight. Not just with pet care, but other aspects of life... not to mention some of the wisdom that comes with age.

I can't really blame alot of people for unknowingly supporting puppy mills through pet stores since many are uninformed. They search for the dog/cat they want, take it home and become attached, love it, care for it, spoiling it, sometimes not finding health problems until later in the game.

Sure, all of us here have computers, know how to research, but many people don't have computers or use it for work purposes and email, not even think to research where a petstore puppy may come from. Especially the younger generation that's busy building a new life and family, complete with family pet. This younger generation, for the most part, probably have not been involved with rescue organizations or the like and need to be informed.

The only way to battle puppy mills is to keep them in the limelight.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

beanne,you are definately not a whiner. I never once heard a "poor little me." It is a big help sometimes to vent. you are not mean,just the opposite,you care for another creature.Ihate that you are so angry but better that than not being able to feel for anything at all. So vent away and feel better.

I hate pet stores too and agree we need to keep the public aware of what is going on. More needs to be done but i don't know what.
oakleif


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Beeanne...from your posts, I can tell you are quite capable of being mean and nasty. What an accomplishment! Good for you!!!!! And when someone calls you on it, you act all hurt and quit.

I was incensed. When I finally found the clerk it was a gal with about 30 different piercings in her face alone. She explained to me that they sell so many dogs, yada yada yada...

Same for labmomma. Yeah, I get it...you're tough. Big deal. What in the heck does how many piercings someone has have to do with selling dogs? Maybe she was a $6.50/hr clerk who had nothing to do with where/how the puppies were purchased? Maybe she just likes dogs. Maybe she could be a ray of sunshine in their lives. Did THAT ever cross your mind? As far as I'm concerned..people who insist on purebred animals are the sole driving force for puppy mills.

How many puppy mills breed mutts?


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

ahughes798,

That was exactly my point, the clerk knew nothing about what she was in charge of selling. SO YES THAT DID CROSS MY MIND. Would have helped if I had made a scene in an empty store, go on an all out rant at the clerk who was clueless? No, so I don't know what you are talking read: talking, talking, talking, ohh its become white noise).

I am sory did I miss something? Where does buying a purebred dog become the sole driving force for puppy mills? Yes, having a purebred animal puts me at the offender of all things that have gone amuck with the bad breeding. No, I have a reputable, well chosen, reliable breeder. I have and will continue to get the dog I want from the breeder I chose. End of that story.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

You would think that the small chains would learn from the big guys (Petsmart and Petco) who refuse to sell puppies/kittens.

A reputable breeder will NEVER use a middle man.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

There are a suprising number of people still out there who have no clue as to where they would get a dog other than at a pet store. They may have heard about puppy mills and are appalled by them but then when they ask the local dog store they are told oh no all our puppies come from local breeder they accept that as the truth but it never dawns on them that small time producers can be a puppy mill just as much so as a large scale producer. After all the the clerk at the store told them the pups were not mill dogs.

Pretty much the only work I have ever done has been animal related because I enjoy it and fortunatly my DH's income is high enough that I am able to do what I enjoy. Most of the staff in pet stores are there for the same reason,they enjoy the animals, but it is a low paying job. Because of that you have the kids that while they mean well they really are not that knowledgeable or maybe someone who is pretty sharp but that person doesn't stay around long, maybe a couple years while they work their way thru school but they move on to better paying jobs.

Lisa


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Unfortunately there are different levels of puppy mills from the small to the multi million dollar Hunt Corporation who follow all the government rules/regulations. The AKC does have a policy on being allowed into the kennels of these high volume breeders but we all must remember that the AKC is a pure-bred dog registry. It does not matter to them if the dogs are good representatives of their breed type or have health checks...AKC will register any litter as long as the parents are AKC registered. The AKC does continue to preach to the public about only buying a puppy from a breeder. During some televised dog shows, the commentators state that the dogs you see at these shows do not come from pet shops. After working my breed rescue for over 25 years, I have finally learned to accept the fact that the high volume breeders will never go away regardless of what the ethical, caring breeders and general public think or do. Neither will the small time backyard puppy millers.

Jan


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Jan I pretty much agree with you on that. Good breeders can not nor will not produce enough puppies to put the puppy mills out of business. As I have said in other post tho being informed enough about the breed you chose and dog behavior in general, to be sure that dog is a good fit for your household, along with training will make it more likely that a dog will stay in it's home instead of being dumped. Then the owner turns around and goes and get another dog that will probably meet the same fate. Leaving people that love dogs in general or a breed in particular to pick up the pieces. When more dogs stay in their original homes and there is less demand for mill dogs then the problem will slow down. But I don't think it will ever go away.

Lisa


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

AKC does hear what the public has to say. Just recently they were going to do business with Petco (I think) to expedite the registering. The public wrote, called and were outraged. They terminated the idea.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Not too long ago I got an email about the increased number of class B dealer licenses being issued in Oklahoma.

What I don't understand is you have to get a permit and pay taxes on a garage sale but you could easily sell $6,000.00 worth of puppies tax free? I don't know why the state doesn't get involved in that.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

It was Petland that the AKC had entered into an agreement with. The idea behind it was to make sure the AKC got the money for the AKC registration of each of the puppies sold at Petland. It was not the general public that was outraged at this but the ethical breeders and dog people who care about their individual breeds and who stand behind what they produce that protested. Due to the number of us against this, the board withdrew their agreement with Petland. Bottom line is that it was the money issue, not the idea of AKC puppies being sold at pet shops. AKC registered puppies have always been sold at pet shops. Again because of the millers who supply them.

Jan


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

It does seem there will never to an end to puppies being mass produced for profit with the mom dog being used as a puppy making machine. As long as there is money to be made, they will exist. Many come from the Amish these days, and raised in really horrid conditions much of the time.
The thing is there doesn't seem to be a lot any of us can do. If the animals have minimal care, no laws are broken.
Even protests outside pet stores have been known to back fire. I believe it was PetLand a few years ago that probably sold more puppies because of protesters against puppy mills. They started putting signs up and advertising that their puppies did NOT come from puppy mill.That they only got their's from USDA inspected kennles.Well DUH! That is a Puppy Mill! But most consumers don't know that. Commecial breeders are puppy mills. They are treated no better than livestock. Some are just worse than others.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

"They are treated no better than livestock."

I know what you were trying to say, Beeanne...but the livestock lives high on the hog (no pun intended) compared to the dogs in local puppy mills.

Oh, and FYI, just because the last name appears to be Amish/Menonite, doesn't mean that they are a part of that religious affliction.

Those are common names around here and from a variety of backgrounds.

Culture and heritage just doesn't seem to stick with people like it used to.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Well, I know amish by all those names in Ohio. Not saying they are all Amish, but I heard many of them were in the puppy mill business now. I was just amazed at the number of them on that list.
The thing with using the term puppy mill, is that it includes all kennel breeding numerous dog for profit and selling to places like petstores. To me they are all bad. Some are so deplorable they can be shut down if found out. Others may actually be kept clean. They are still mass producing with no other thought then turning a profit. I've heard of Amish raising every kind of toy dog you could imagine, stacked in cages in old barns with no climate control in winter or summer. And when thier dogs get sick, they won't seek vet care if it's not profitable. It's all about the money.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Too many members of the general public think that AKC registration equates a quality bred puppy.

If a dog has papers, it must be a well bred dog.

Of course, that isn't true by any means and puppy mill papers are likely to be incorrect in the first place.

It is my understanding that many Amish are either backyard breeders or have puppy mills but I wrote about it on the other thread where they were being discussed.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I don't think that most members of the general public have a clue where pet shop dogs and cats come from. We must keep educating people. Perhaps it will make a difference. Educational booths at dog and cat shows might be a place to start.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Most towns have a free newspaper that everyone receives in their mailbox.

What if everyone pitched the idea to them?


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

We should ALL be MEAN and ANGRY.

A lot boils down to ignorance. All (well WAY too many at least) the wrong people have pets and children. (go ahead flame me, I could care less).

Sadly the people buying these pets from dog stores do absolutely no research on what kind of breed is best for them. They havent a clue about raising a dog. All they see is "awww! Look at the cute puppy".

It makes me sick. I too had a relevantly good pet store that sold only supplies. And then they were bought out and have new owners. They always have a big sign outside of their store advertising that they "HAVE 30 NEW PUPPIES". (I've secretly wanted to re arrange the sign in the middle of the night to read "GET YOUR PUPPYMILL PUPPIES HERE!!!)

Lets also not forget that this same store will push hard during the upcoming holiday season. Great! Lets get little Johnny a puppy fro Christmas! And the months afterwards, because clueless family has no idea how to train a dog. So the dog chews everything in sight, has accidents in the house and by March the poor thing will probably be in the pound.

Its amazing how if you what to adopt a dog from a shelter / rescue, you are screened, in depth. But the almighty dollar makes people shut up and look the other way. As long as they have money for the dogno questions will be asked.

There was recently a news story of a break in at a pet store. The thieves stole two teacup (that whole disgusting breeding process is a whole different storydont get me started)
Two teacup dogs that sell for $2,500. Do you think these thieves are going to give a rats ass what ignoramus theyll sell them too? Give me a break.

Jen
(who should really go take a breather. Its Friday after allbut this subject boils my blood)


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I thought I was one of the lucky ones with a town that did not sell kittens and puppies at any of the pet stores, but golly gee!!! there is a brand new pet store coming to town, right down the road from petsmart in fact, called petland. MO. is just upping the puppy mill stakes. I will NOT shop there and I will be sure to educate everyone around me.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

"All they see is "awww! Look at the cute puppy"."

In rescue, I call this the "cute and fuzzy puppy syndrome".

I won't adopt an adorable puppy if I think they are experiencing this...sounds pretty picky, but I have gotten a couple back after they grew up a bit and started chewing on things. Nipped that right away...if I have to, I tell them the puppy is still in a holding period...if they walk away, then I know that was the case.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

This all falls on deaf ears mostly. I know two people who did not heed my advice on buying dogs at these "box stores". I told them to get the "paws to consider" book and research on what breeds are safe to buy. i.e. not ruined by overbreeding.

They did not heed my advice, and both got dogs that totally have behavioral problems that I suspect may be due to inbreeding.

"cute and fuzzy syndrome" is right. They paid big bucks for these dogs too. They could have gotten the same breeds from a reputable breeder at less cost. And those puppies would have been just as cute. They just couldn't be bought "instantly". You might have to wait for a litter.

Comes down to it, most people want instant gratification. Dogs are like purses.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Yes, Jen, we should all be mean and angry. I know I have been for years yet the problem with pet shops has increased rather than decreased regardless of what the well meaning breeders/dog show enthusiasts/general public have done or tried to do. As I previously mentioned, the Hunt Corporation, a multi-million dollar business, has entered into the breeding of dogs to supply to pet shops. The bottom line is supply and demand and money.

And it's very true that AKC registration does not guarantee you a well bred, healthy puppy as it is merely a registry of pure-bred dogs.

Most people who purchase dogs do it on impulse without doing any research into what breed is right for them. Even the ones who do the research are sometimes turned off by the rules, contracts, questions, etc. that some breeders use. And because of this, they turn to the pet shops or backyard breeders who will take their money and hand them a dog. Yet the reason the good breeders make you jump through hoops is because they don't want any of their dogs ending up in backyard/puppy mill breeding situations. It's a vicious circle.

What is the answer to pet shop puppies? I honestly don't think there is one.

Jan


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Jen- I wish I could give you a big hug right now. So sorry to hear about your pet store selling puppies now. You are so right about pet stores advertising about what great gifts puppies make. The truth is the holidays are the absolute worst time to get a new pet. Besides that, pets should never be bought as gifts. If someone wants to add a puppy to their family and want it to be a surprise at Christmas, there are ways to do that. They can buy everything the puppy is going to need, toys, bed, crate,books,gift certificates for puppy classes. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. The puppy can be added later when things have calmed down from the holidays and the whole family can participate in the selection of the right puppy.
Micke--sigh..sorry about your new store too. Doesn't it make you want to gag?

There are good ideas out there to educate people like some of you have mentioned. However, I think some people just don't want to be educated. I've had friends like Klimkn's and it's enough to make you want to just give up. If the people you know personally won't listen, what makes you think strangers will.
Yes it is too bad that in todays society people want instant gratification, and the puppy pays the price for that.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I think the pet stores that stick to selling pet supplies and pet training must feel like they are swimming upstream. I think we all just have to make sure we support the ones who stick by their guns, by shopping only at non-PM stores.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Trekaren! I believe you are so right!
The problems that come up against the Petcos and PetSmarts are that they are not perfect in the eyes of some extreme animal rights activists. They still sell other small animals,birds and fish etc. Instead of being commended for their fight against puppy/kitten mills they are vilified for still selling live animals by those like PETA. We need to shop in the non Puppy/Kitten selling stores. They both Petco/PetSmart offer space free of charge to rescues to find homes for homeless animals.
When I hear stories of PETA wanting to close them down because their bettas are in tiny cups, I want to throw up. Sure, they may not be perfect, but little in life is. We need to show that any petstore that has the balls to say "NO" to selling puppies and kittens, deserves our support. Speak with your purse, and spend your money there in a way of saying "THANK YOU"


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

There is a pet store that sells puppies around here that I refuse to go to, for all the obvious reasons. The puppies come from the Hunt Corporation, and I used to see them frequently at the Vet Clinic I worked at a few years back. The people who bought these dogs were SO CLUELESS, it boggled my mind. Some of them didn't want to spay or neuter, because they had a purebred with "papers". Of course the loving vet I worked for had a great speech she would go into on how only educated breeders should breed, and how, yes, the puppies would be cute, but then a shelter dog might not get adopted. Nine times out of ten, they would make a spay/neuter appointment after this. They just needed someone to TELL them what they were about to do was wrong.

But, the worst was this one lady who had bought a particularily sickly and ugly Bichon from the pet store. She came in (with the Hunt Corp. papers, and the papers with all the vaccines and worming that the pet store did) and she said, "do you think he came from a puppy mill? I'd hate to support something like that!" My co-worker gently told her, that considering we are in Rhode Island, and the dog came from Missouri and the Hunt Corp. that is was basically a guarentee that the dog was from a puppy mill. And that she had already supported the business of puppy mills when she forked over her $1000 (!) for the dog. She just shrugged and said, "well, at least he's cute!" I was literally screaming inside.

Bottom line, people buy the puppies at pet shops on impulse. And plus, there is always the allure of "fiancing", so you can afford whatever dog you want!!! *rolls eyes*


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Oh geez Emmhip, I'd forgotten that many pet stores would allow you to charge or finance a puppy, making them that more appealing. Thanks for that, not *rolls eyes back at you* And the Hunt Corp. (gag) They used to be huge and probably even bigger now. (sigh)


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Its not just the pet stores. A lot of puppy millers have really slick web sites and sell puppies from there. The way the web sites are designed with music, cute backgrounds and cute pictures of puppies, they make the unsuspecting public think they are legit.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Oh yea, that's true. There are many red flags on sites if people know what to look for. Do they have more than one or two breeds? Do they always have puppies available? Are they willing to ship anywhere? Do you have to fill out any kind of application or do you just need a credit card? Is there a money back/replacement guarantee, such as 30 days? (like you're going to ship a puppy back, that you've grown attached to) for you money back or replacement like it was a toaster or something. Yea, it's sad but you are correct. Avoiding petstore pups doesn't mean the mills will be put out of business completely. They will have to work a bit harder and deal with individual buyers instead of selling large quantities at a time.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

PETA = PITA

It is not ideal to sell small animals, birds or reptiles but Petco and Petsmart are much better than places that sell puppies and kittens and they do help shelters by having adoptions.

IF an independant pet supply store that does not sell animals at all is NOT available then Petsmart and/or Petco certainly will do.

I curse the person who invented the vase with the plant on top and the Betta in the bottom, that person has cause the death of thousands of Bettas but waging war against Petco/Petsmart isn't going to help.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

ohhhh..... I love my betta that I got from Petsmart. Couldn't wait to get him out of that little cup.( not the vase thingy)bad idea. He's doing great and is actually becoming a member of the family. I'm glad there was a place I could buy one where I wouldn't feel guilty.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I love Petsmart and buy all my cat stuff there. I go visit the rescue cats even when I don't need anything. I have gone looking for litter two times and ending up adopting a rescued cat. I admire them for giving the thousands of unwanted dogs and cats a chance at life..And I bought my betta there. I don't like to see them in small containers but since I bought one, I can't be too hypocritical. We had a "lovely" Petland here. The owner served jail time on cruelty charges. He took a sickly kitten and put it in the freezer. When a young employee found it, it was still alive. The owner then took the kitten and bashed his head on a trash can and killed it before witnesses. There were protests for weeks in front of this place. They changed their name and opened another store when he got out of jail. So I go in every once in ahile and say in a loud voice.."Is this the pet store where the owner killed a little kitten??Then get out of there in a hurry..Some of these dog purchases are made spur of the moment w/ o any research into what they're getting which is usually a sickly animal..And I live in the heartland of Amish country which is the number one offender. Gov. Rendell, a huge doggie person, signed legislation against them recently.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

Yea, I wrote Gov Rendell a thank you Email. He's definately not to my liking on other issues but on this one YOU GO GUY!


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I have never bought a puppy or kitten from a Pet store....gerbil,hamster,fish and rabbit,yes,I have.
My cats I have always gotten from a resue place or someone who was giving them away.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

how does the plant in the vase kill the betta? my in laws keep theirs in a vase like that, and they have had it two years at least. I was always afraid to do that because all of my houseplants have fertilizer ran through the soil, so didn't want to chance it with my fish.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I agree with the original poster. Knowing what I know now I would never buy a dog or cat from a pet store. However, I did do this once, when I was 24 years old and getting my first pets (I bought two kittens who were with me until the last died this year at age 20). I really did not know any better then. Well, I did know that humane societies existed, I guess, but I didn't know at all about puppy mills, etc. This issue is on my mind this week because a young co-worker of mine, also in his 20s, just proudly announced to us that he had bought a dog from a local pet store. I was taken aback and really put off because no one I know in my social circle or age group would ever consider this. But then I realized that this guy, like my younger self, really didn't have a clue. My point is that a whole lot of people are completely uneducated about these matters, especially the many who treat animals only as commodities and/or want a "designer" pet.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

I was up at my local convience store chatting with the cashier (one of my neighbors) about the Miniture Chihuahua that she just got, and we went on to talking about my Shi Tzu, the guy that was standing there waiting for his C.C slip to print, told us that he just got a Shih Tzu puppy from petland, said he paid 1,200 (!!!!) dollars for this dog, said it has already had 2 seizures, and he was suppose to get lifetime vet visits, now they told him it is 6 well check visits, liars! I felt so bad for him. I told him to get on the internet if he could stomache it and look up all the negativity on petland. I told him the Shih Tzu puppy can be bought from any where from 300 to 500 dollars in our area. I can't believe those people are getting people to buy their puppies at those prices! He said they asked him if he would like to get a loan to buy the dog, he said it was as if they was trying to push the loan issue with him. Fuddruckers is in the same shopping mall as PetLand, now I do love my hamburgers, but I won't even eat there just because they are next door to that place. I am getting worked up just thinking about it, he showed me a pic of his puppy (a guy that carries a pic of his dog in his wallet!) and he looked like such a sweetheart (the dog not the guy:) what a shame.


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RE: I don't want to be mean and angry

You know - I have told so many people the same thing about the pet stores - and to read the book "paws to consider" about which breeds to avoid. And it is like talking into the wind. People just fall in love with those puppies behind those windows and just "have to have them". And the petshops that carry these doggies cash in on that instant gratification personalities that we all have.
So many people I know have gotten doggies at those places and their pups end up with problem dogs. (usually health).
I keep telling folks that you can get a dog CHEAPER from a regular reputable breeder and those places are ripoffs, but they want the dog NOW. Don't want to do the legwork associated with getting to know a breeder and getting on their waiting list and picking the breed most suited for your lifestyle.
AND I personally think there is a certain status to tell people that you are on the breeder's waiting list and have one on order.
The one person who DID take my advice ended up getting a chocolate lab from a reputable breeder whose labs had english bloodlines and it is an awesome dog with no problems whatsoever so far. She is very happy. It was so funny, she was SO excited when her puppy was born she announced it to us in the office. He is a gorgeous dog.


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