The Truth Tree

17 years ago

This is a debate forum. Therefore I thought posting this link may be beneficial to those who choose to read it!

The link below is to The Truth Tree, a forum for rational and scientific debate and discussion.

"If we don't want to live in a dictatorship, we must be vigilant to preserve our freedoms. If we wish to preserve our freedoms, we must be informed on the issues. Being informed on the issues requires that we become acquainted with alternative points of view. The history of the development of civilization can be seen as the history of debates on issues. In democratic societies, there must be public debating. Newspapers have served this purpose and still do to some extent in this country. However, we seem to have lost awareness of the importance of debating since the days of Thomas Paine. The sixty-second sound bite has created the illusion that the important issues are all brief and cut-and-dried. The importance of debating issues is fading from the public consciousness. One principle aim of The Truth Tree is to increase awareness of the importance of rational debating. But constructive debating is an art. With all this in mind, the following suggestions are offered." Click on link...

Here is a link that might be useful: The Truth Tree... How to Debate Effectively and Rationally

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Comments (13)

sable_ca
17 years ago
Why don't you take this over to the Hot Topics forum on the Garden Web. They are probably better suited to your interests. This is a forum about issues concerning pets.
the_adams
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks for the info!

I know this is a forum concerning pets. I just thought some might be interested in the article I found concerning debatin tips. I really enjoyed it!

Cheers!
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YR, I grow all my clethras in a such shady conditions that clematises will not bloom there, so I never even attempted to try such combo, but I think that clethra with its suckering habit might not be a good host for the clemmi. Another possible contra to this idea is that clethra's lateral branches are not thick enough to support a massive vine. On another side I think this could be a lovely combo, especially considering the fact that clethras leafing out very late and clematis foliage will decorate it early in a season. Hmmm...now when I start thinking about your idea, I think I might try Jacmanii on one of mine C.barbinervis which is approaching 12' mark and have top 6' in a full sun. Thanks for idea.
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Great post and discussion. From what I've experienced, read, and been told everything in the article right one target. The article is online at http://www.oldhousejournal.net/magazine/2007/oct/Truth_about_TreePlanting.lasso I have witnessed seedling growth rates much higher than larger b&b and potted trees. After a couple years of developing roots, the bareroot seedlings show unbelievable growth rate. I had a post a couple months ago about watering young trees and the effects of drought on trees. I had been told by my grandfather (who studied botany for his PhD) that my 6000 seedling that have gone now through 2 years of record drought will have a better root system and future potential than if they had received good rain. It didn't make sense to me at the time. After thinking about it, if the roots are fat and happy with a lot of water, they have no incentive to grow. I was told something similar by a horticulturist when discussing amending backfill around trees - don't do it because they will have no incentive to move outside the "good stuff". He also told me to "water trees good at planting and from there on out don't water again unless it doesn't rain for a month". See the link below. It is a study that proves water stressed seedling result in more root growth than well watered seedlings. My seedlings went a month or more without water multiple times over the past 2 brutal years. I admit some died, but the large majority that made it are now doing really well. According to the study, they have a better root system, and over the next couple years will likely show accelerated top growth due to the superior root system. The accelerated top growth achieved by a lot of watering is easy to see, however the more long term effects of growth rate (early root development) cannot be seen from the surface. The fact that we normally cannot see and compare this root growth makes this idea is difficult to understand. Look at page 4 of the link below. The graphs are worth 1000 words. They consistently show approx 25% increase in root length for water stressed seedlings compared to well-watered seedlings. This proved to me that my grandpa was right, even though I thought at the time, he was crazy. Morale of the story is. plant smaller trees, and after initial watering, let the trees find water on their own while developing a good root system. DonÂt use early top growth as an indicator of future/potential growth rate. I admit these ideas don't seem to pass the common sense test, but it's hard to argue with documented research. This non-common sense advice is probably why the article heading in Old House Journal states "Tree Planting 101 Hint: It's Not What You've Heard - To ensure beautiful trees for years to come, youÂre better off ignoring some popular gardening advice". The research quoted in the article is from the International Society of Arboriculture. I'm guessing they know a little bit about trees. John
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Of that list I'd vote for the Honeylocust. Fall color, flowers, and nice light shade that won't kill the grass. Less to rake up as well.
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Tom: When I was a freshman in college I took an introductory course in logic, and the first thing the professor said was "post hoc, ergo propter hoc." Funny that I, who never studied Latin in school, should still remember this. The professor began his discussion of logical fallacies with this. Basically the idea is that people commonly ascribe a cause to something that happens before some supposed result, even though there may be no causal connection. This logical fallacy, he explained, causes an incredible amount of grief for mankind. In this case the observed root deformations, and the death of the trees, happened after the wire basket was placed around the root ball. But the does not mean that the wire basket caused the root deformations, or that the root deformations caused the death of the tree. In this case I can think of other things that could have caused, and in my mind, very probably could have caused the root deformations. First, of course, the roots were cut at the same margin where the basket was placed to enclose the root ball. Second, the tree may have been stored for a time in the wire basket before planting, causing the ends of the cut roots to die back from drying out at the surface of the root ball. Third, the roots would, naturally, reverse their direction and begin growing towards he moisture in the interior of the root ball, where there would be more moisture. This may look like the roots were somehow repelled by the wire, but in fact the cause was something else. Finally, the tree could have been planted in a soil that was very different form the soil from which the tree was dug, also affecting the growth of the roots out of the root ball and possibly causing them to grow even more unnaturally. The problem I have with the idea that the wire basket theory of root deformation, is that I canÂt identify anything about the wire that could cause this. Nothing I know about galvanized wire, and nothing I know about roots and how they grow, suggests any possibilities to me. I have not read any of the studies about this issue. I can imagine that any good study would have to control for a number of factors to ensure that what was discovered would be clearly an effect of the wire basket itself, and not other coincident factors.. When I have more time I will try to find out what I can about these studies. Maybe Nate could explain more about the study he cites and how it was designed and the factors that were controlled. I take the observations about the synthetic twine to be a separate issue. --Spruce
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rivkadr
17 years ago
Frankly, I think some people in this forum could stand to read the article in question. This is an "Animal Debates" forum, not a "forum about issues concerning pets" (I think you're thinking of the Pets forum). Too many people here don't even know what a debate is, and seem to think it means sharing your feelings and opinions only with no rebuttal. God forbid that you ever disagree with someone else's stance -- that means you're judging or criticizing them! Too many people here don't know how to use logic or rational debate methods. I applaud the_adams for trying to point people towards proper debate methods...not that it'll actually do anything.
the_adams
Original Author
17 years ago
rivkadr - Thanks for posting, atleast someone saw what I was trying to do! Someone posted on another thread on this forum "May i suggest you join a good collage debate team and learn the rules."

Apparently their is someone else out their who thinks that formal debate rules should be followed. I had already posted this link it hopes of helping others learn rules.

Thanks again rivkadr!
oakleif
17 years ago
the_adams, I like you and hope you don't get upset. I read the Truth Tree and it was interesting,in fact amusing. It's been a long time since i've read so many contradictions in an article.
I especially loved the paragraph on evidence. Why don't you start a debate on Schrodingers Cat, using only the rules listed under evidence. That is a good debate item for animal debates.

I noticed there was a lot of latin(sp) quoted.The Romans were very good debaters,yet i beleive they were defeated from within and hordes of half civilized germanic tribes.

I'm really looking forward to a debate on a cat in a box.LOL
have fun
vickie
quirkyquercus
17 years ago
T H A N K Y O U
for posting that!
I have been looking for a site to debate stuff for a long time and haven't found any site to do that except for this one and unfortunately people here get too emotional.
the_adams
Original Author
17 years ago
quirkyquercus - Glad you're enjoying the website. Here is another debate forum that I love...

Here is a link that might be useful: Volconvo Forums
oakleif
17 years ago
I looked at your debate site. To debate "if a black woman is undesireable." Is not a subject for public debate.
Am sending link to appropiate groups.
vickie
the_adams
Original Author
17 years ago
Oaklief - That is certainly a bizzarre debate! The person apparently wasn't making a racist comment - just posing a stupid question.

I usually do not look under general or miss. in that forum. And even under the other topics I choose my debates wisely. Freedom of Speech will inevitably lead to uninformed/unintelligent people saying things that reflect just that! :-)
oakleif
17 years ago
Sorry, That was definately sexest and racest and on the front page.
the_adams
Original Author
17 years ago
Hey, no need to apologize to me, I didn't post or respond to it! :-) The title does sound bad and the post really is stupid. The post is the OP's attempt to make a genralization based on their own experience. Basic sociology will teach you that genralizations made on ones own experiences are generally inaccurate.

I certainly wouldn't respond to the post, not really worth my time.

I like the Volconvo site for their Philosophy, Breaking News, Politics, Society, and Science forums. I have found sites with such a broad spectrum of debate forums can attract some really, uh, uneducated people. That is why I choose my battles wisely! :-)

Here is another debate forum I enjoy, although this one may not appeal to everyone because it is more genre specific. Earlier my reply was to Quirky who showed interest in debate forums.

BTW... On this forum, under the "Health & Medicine" section, there is a post that is of paticular interest to me that is entitled "A Hot Cure for Diabetes", with a link to an article in "The National Review of Medicine" entitled " Canadian team cracks type I diabetes code." (My DH has Type 1)

Here is a link that might be useful: The Science Forum
oakleif
17 years ago
the_adams, Hey!!!! thanks that is a great site. i really mean it.
Do you ever read Lancet?
the_adams
Original Author
17 years ago
Oakleif - Finally, got one you like! :-)

Are you speaking of The Lancet Medical Journal? If so, that's obviously a Yes! I don't have a subscription but I frequent their website.

The Truth Tree

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