What a freaking right wing hang out this place is! I'm a proud leftie, animal rights, tree hugging liberal environmentalist who is pro choice, pro stem cell research, anti guns , anti hunting and anti war...and who hates George Bush w/ every breath I take!..And FF..Clinton's are trailor trash??!! What a joke. Their IQ's combined are in the stratosphere. She lived in the suburbs in an upper class neighborhood and they both excelled at Ivy league schools and Bill was a Rhodes scholar..Contrast his intellect w/ the boob in the WH who can't say nuclear and doesn't read the papers and never had been to Europe till he was president. He is a moron!!And talk about trash..A walking , talking cowboy who spits and drops his "g's". He was a druggie and a drunk and failed at everything he undertook till he found Jesus.

Yeah, but he learned a new word yesterday "foment". When I heard him speaking I was busy working, and thought I had heard incorrectly, but no. He was giving a speach regarding staying the course in Iraq. Unfortunately, whoever is writing his material should take baby steps in making him look literate....

Have to say Lily, it has been quite lonely here on the left until now.

Would having a reverence for life label you politically? I think we can look outside the box and try to come to a consensus on moral issues.

Clinton's are trailor trash??!! What a joke. Their IQ's combined are in the stratosphere.

Most geniuses that I've known didn't have the common sense God gave a GOAT. But that's okay, because most geniuses I've known were also so stuck on themselves they didn't believe in God, anyway.

He was a druggie and a drunk

Oh, that's right-- Clinton didn't inhale. WHAT A CROCK.

Atleast Bush isn't using the Whitehouse to get laid!!

Don't EVEN start comparing Clinton to Dubyah. I'm not a big Bush fan (any more) either, but I truly believe that Clinton played HUGE part in where we are right now with respect to 9/11. If he wasn't so concerned with getting stains out of dresses, he might have been able to think straight with that genius brain of his about what was happening around the REST of the world!!

Bill and Hillary go back to their home town for their highschool reunion. As they're coming into town, they stop at a gas station to fill up. Low and behold, the gas jockey is one of Hillary's old boyfriends. They strike up a conversation and exchange pleasantries, catching up with each other, and promise to see each other at the reunion. As they're pulling out of the gas station, Bill turns to Hillary and says "I wonder what it would've been like if you'd married HIM instead."
Hillary turns to Bill and says "Then YOU'D be pumping gas and HE'D be in the Whitehouse!!"

P.S.
We have Mennonite friends who are pro-life, pro-hunting, and anti-war. They are also non-political and don't vote.
I do think political action is appropriate in a democracy, as well as free speech, but sometimes it's counter-productive to pin labels on each other like "left" or "right." Some issues can be worked on by both sides.

I'm sure Lily316 also voted for that high integrity individual John Kerry, even though his grades at Yale were slightly lower than the President's. I love the hate spewed by the ultimate lefties. Love everything and everybody, unless they disagree with you, then hate their guts with a vehemence that would make Bin Laden smile. Be pro-women but feel Muslim Fundamentalists are just misunderstood, that makes sense.

I would love to jump in here on this stuff, but it's easier to watch Bill handle it.

Bill, if I come to Maine, will you take me fishing? LOL.

Kevin

I like muskies. Preserve the resource, practice CPR-Catch, Photo, and Release.

Hey, the Amish voted in large numbers in the Bush/carry election. A very new trend for such a outwardly apolitical group, and many Menonites do vote also (Of course there arent large numbers of Amish, ohio has the largest population at about 55,000).

even my wife a liberal from a long democcRAT family voted against kerry. I voted against kerry too as did a whole bunch of folks, that doesnt mean it was a vote for Bush, just no other realistic choice.

Hillary might be bad news but at least she is mostly conservative from a Republican family. If we must be stuck with Dums in power, they may as well be the most conservative of the lot .
Absolutly Clinton caused the great divide.
Maybe he isn't trailor trash, just a smart dude with a red nose with no character, and a rapist who aided and abetted the enemy during the viet Nam war.

I may no understand, but, explain this please: How can you stand for animal life, be a tree hugger, yet applaud the death of human infants?? Its all confusing.

try the 'Hot Topics" forum, lefties thick as fleas on a hound dogs hind leg over there!

Didn't realize there are Amish that vote now. Thanks for the info. Maybe I should check with our friends and see if they've begun to do that, too.
The Amish and Mennonite families we know tend to have very large families. It would be interesting to see what changes might happen if they all began voting.
I read that folks who consider themselves "liberal" tend to have fewer children and that eventually this will play out in political changes for our nation.

What a freaking right wing hang out this place is! I'm a proud leftie, animal rights, tree hugging liberal environmentalist who is pro choice, pro stem cell research, anti guns , anti hunting and anti war...and who hates George Bush w/ every breath I take!

Feel better Lily? :-)
I see some lefties are hanging out in our right wing hangout. I'm a proud conservative, animal welfare, environmentalist, pro life, pro adult stem cell research, pro right to own guns, pro right to hunt, pro troops, pro war to protect our country and our way of life from terrorists. I don't love our president with every breath I take, in fact he has been a disappointment. He's not enough of a spitting cowboy for my taste :-) He does have morals though, as opposed to Bill Clinton who has none and was a total embarassment to this country. Give me a moral president any day over one who can't keep his thing is his pants long enough to get out of the White House.

By the way, let me get back on topic a little bit here. Lily, you say you are an environmentalist and anti hunting. Those two don't go together.

Does anyone either or the right or the left really believe that Clinton was the only president to ever have "relations" with someone other than his wife?

It was the the independent prosecutor who made a circus of a little sex. Many tax dollar were wasted on that witch hunt.

At least Clinton didn't deceive congress and the American people taking us to war on bad information, if that's really what it was, or perhaps he was just looking to keep the ball rolling in the hopes of a 2 term presidency after 9/11. Seems funny that whenever Bush has something bad in the press an elevated threat level is announced, or "chatter" has been picked up by Homeland Security. Another joke - Homeland Security, they are doing about as good a job as Mike Brown did in New Orleans and Mississipi during Katrina.

I really don't see what someone's sexual prowess has to do with their ability to govern?

Does any body really believe Clinton was impeached for sex acts?? Does any one really care?? Only those with their heads stuck in the mud think that! the only crime that could be pinned on Al Capone was tax evasion. But it got him out of society didnt it.
What I do notice and a good reason why I now continue to lean further to the right is that liberals dont reason with any amount of depth. They are short on facts, on vision, and morals.

In the eyes of the rest of the world, Bush is a much bigger embarrassment than Clinton. Clinton's infidelity was no big deal to anyone but his wife and to the Republicans who were out to get him.

No one is aborting or creating embryos for stem cell research.

Why is it that some feel it necessary to call names? DumocRat etc? This is a debate form but there is no need to resort to acting like a child on a playground....

On August 9th, 2001, President George W. Bush announced that federal funds may be awarded for research using human embryonic stem cells if the following criteria are met:

The derivation process (which begins with the destruction of the embryo) was initiated prior to 9:00 P.M. EDT on August 9, 2001.
The stem cells must have been derived from an embryo that was created for reproductive purposes and was no longer needed.
Informed consent must have been obtained for the donation of the embryo and that donation must not have involved financial inducements.

I'm sorry about your husband, but what more do you want our president to do?

The derivation process (which begins with the destruction of the embryo) was initiated prior to 9:00 P.M. EDT on August 9, 2001.

That date is the problem, those stem cells are almost gone. No new stem cells may be used. Without Federal research grants, much research cannot happen.

I have read a TON of good stuff on this thread, wow! The PETA thing just blows me away, I knew they had a real strong view against animals, but saying no pets? what about all our furbabies that can't take care of themselves? I am sure my 2 lb dog would last a real long time outdoors (owl food) and no riding horses? my mothers horses would be devastated, most of them come running up to the gate when you go out there and practically place their own heads in the halters, now I call that animal abuse. No seeing eye dogs? I guess those people don't realize working dogs LIKE to work, most are uncontent when they are retired, a friend had a retired German Shepard Police Dog, took them forever to get him to eat he was so unhappy not doing anything, her hubby was a security guard and finally decided to take him with him to work, what a difference in that dogs life.

my political views are kinda odd I guess, I don't believe in abortion, do believe in guns, do believe in animal rights (as in no animal abuse, hunting in fair terms, not hunting something tame in a pen, would you actually consider that hunting? where is the sport in that?) but I do believe in hunting and fishing (LOVE Crappie) I don't like to actually go hunting, but I fully support my husband and if both my boys would like to do so they are more then welcome to with the understanding they have to learn the CORRECT way to hunt, the stem cell thing is touchy, my moral belief is no, but if they really could find cures for diseases with it thereby saving lives I would say yes.
so I just don't vote, mainly because don't keep up with all of this stuff and I would be afraid of voting for the wrong thing or for the wrong President (just haven't found a canidate I am comfortable with yet) but I also don't complain about our president, I didn't vote so I don't have the right (I just grumble alot under my breath)
no one else is scared witless by Mrs. Clinton? she scares the crud outta me.

"It was the the independent prosecutor who made a circus of a little sex. Many tax dollar were wasted on that witch hunt."

As the father of a brilliant nine year old daughter, I find it interesting that people on the left think it's no big deal that the President of the United States can have a young woman INTERN under his desk performing an oral sex act on him while he talks on the phone and smokes a cigar.

Maybe it's just me, but if my daughter at sometime during the course of her life and education has the opportunity to be a Whitehouse intern, I'd like to think the man in the top job wouldn't think a blow job was part of her duties.

Kevin

I like Muskies. Preserve the resource, Practic CRP-Catch, photo, and release.

fancifowl: I am not short on facts, visions or morals at all. What I am, is informed. I haven't had any of the republican koolaid that you all have been drinking. Apparently it must have something in it that allows you to see the world through rose colored glasses rather than from a clear lens for what it is.

Buyorsell said it best: In the eyes of the rest of the world, Bush is a much bigger embarrassment than Clinton. Clinton's infidelity was no big deal to anyone but his wife and to the Republicans who were out to get him.

Micke, I believe you are an advocate for animal welfare and not animal rights. I've posted the difference below. This will be an eye-opening site, if you're not really familiar with what Animal rights really stands for.
http://www.sover.net/~lsudlow/ARvsAW.htm

You'll be shocked to see some of the quotes by AR groups and where the money goes.

Animal Rights Goals

To end all human "exploitation" of animals -
this includes, but is not limited to, raising
and slaughtering of livestock for human or
animal consumption, eating meat, hunting,
using animals for any medical or veterinary
research, zoos (regardless of how well
managed), circuses, rodeos, horseshows,
dogshows, animals performing in TV
commercials, shows or movies (regardless
of how well treated any of the above are),
guide-dogs for the blind, police dogs, search
& rescue dogs, and the practice of owning pets.
PETA (People For The Ethical
Treatment Of Animals)

HSUS (Humane Society Of The
United States)

*****************************************
Animal welfare
To prevent suffering and cruelty to animals. And to
provide care and good homes for pets in need. This
often includes, but is not limited to, the funding and
running of animal shelters (to provide a sanctuary for
abandoned, abused, homeless, or unwanted pets, and
to place them in good homes where possible, provide
painless euthanasia for those that cannot be adopted,
and to educate the public about the need for
spaying/neutering their pets to prevent more surplus
animals ending up in shelters), enforcement of
anti-cruelty statutes (where their authority permits),
initiating, lobbying for, and monitoring enforcement
of legislation to ensure more humane standards of
care for livestock, laboratory animals, performing
animals, and pets.

Hey, Bush is defanged, we hope. See what I mean, IT WAS NOT ABOUT SEX. It was about SO much more. such as , selling secrets to China, renting the Lincoln bedroom, my golly, it could go on and on. What if monica had been a Chinese spy and held the "sex act" over his head-blackmail. How bout that Madeline A. dancing the jig for old kim in Korea? How about the staff wearing blue jeans and Ts in the White House. The reason the rest of the world is worried about bush is that he just might hold them responsible for what they do.
I dunno, maybe its you labmomma who drinks the coolaid! I'm more of a Bourbon or good Port wine man.

okay I stand corrected, I am a animal WELFARE activist:)

Welcome to the club! :-)

No, I prefer a vodka martini straight up.

Last comment on Bush. I do not think Bush has the right to "police" the rest of the world. Besides not having any money or troops left, how would the American citizens feel if another world leader took it upon himself to tell us how to live our lives, what kind of government to have, etc.

As for political slamming, we will to agree to disagree. I need to shake that drink.

Does anyone either or the right or the left really believe that Clinton was the only president to ever have "relations" with someone other than his wife?

No, there was one other-- Kennedy. Oh right-- he was a democrat, too!! (also Clinton's confessed idol, for what seems obvious reasons)

At least Clinton didn't deceive congress and the American people taking us to war on bad information, if that's really what it was

Lets put it this way-- if it WASN'T bad info, then The Brits, Russians, and Germans were ALSO all fooled by the same info. And before anyone starts saying that Germany was against the war, that was for financial reasons. They were getting kickbacks from Sadaam.

I really don't see what someone's sexual prowess has to do with their ability to govern?

You're right-- it has NOTHING to do with it. However, trying to get your fanny out of the fire after getting caught literally with your pants down has EVERYTHING to do with it, because while he was busy LYING and trying to cover his ass, Bin Laden was allowed to LIVE when we HAD HIM PEGGED!!

Kevin-- Bet on it!!

Clinton's infidelity was no big deal to anyone but his wife and to the Republicans who were out to get him.

On the contrary. It was a VERY big deal to Bin Laden, who would not be breathing right now if it weren't for that stupid moron being distracted.

Labmom, thats my drink, I prefer mine slightly dirty(als FDR) and stirred tho!

The UN is trying to dictate how our country should be run,(world courts, disarm Americans, etc.) when Bush 41 bought into the 1 world order crap is when I lost faith in him.

I knew somebody would yell The Kennedys. Clinton's confessed idol was Thomas Jefferson. Any event, I am sure there are as many Republicans who behave in the same manner. Not saying it is good behavior, but I do not think it is exclusive to one party or the other.

I don't think I would be bragging about our Republican representatives' behavior, does the behavior George Allen, while knowing he was being taped, continued to use racial slurs, inspire confidence in his leadership? There are so many Republican examples of much worse and detrimental behavior that affect our County as a whole both on foreign and domestic homefront, that I could write a book.

"Lets put it this way-- if it WASN'T bad info, then The Brits, Russians, and Germans were ALSO all fooled by the same info. And before anyone starts saying that Germany was against the war, that was for financial reasons. They were getting kickbacks from Sadaam".

Difference is our Country is supposed to be a democracy. Mr. Bush mislead both the Congress and the citizens, and went to war without the necessary congretional go ahead. I don't really care what the other countries did, I care about what my Country has done. Also, where are those WMD's? Do you really think they are all hidden away only to be brought out on the off chance that we can ever get out of that situation while we still have some men and women who haven't sacrificed their lives?

"Clinton's infidelity was no big deal to anyone but his wife and to the Republicans who were out to get him".

"On the contrary. It was a VERY big deal to Bin Laden, who would not be breathing right now if it weren't for that stupid moron being distracted".

I guess Bin Laden got a memo that Clinton had his pants down, so go ahead and plan 9/11? Don't think so. Unless, of course, you know something I don't. Please show me where you have gotten this particular bit of information. I ask this because I don't think you are correct.

The pending terrorist attacks were imparted to Bush by Clinton personally during the transitional period between the election and the Bush inauguration, and then by Richard Clarke to Bush's brain, Condy Rice and Cheney.

The events of 9/11 were predicted one month prior to same through a urgent memo from the CIA which was ignored by Bush, well either ignored or he couldn't read it, since he was on his month long vacation in Crawford.

Compare the number of days worked Clinton vs. Bush, I bet you will be surprised at the number of days actually worked, and by worked, I mean leading our country, not campaigning, vacationing or fundraising.

Monica Lewinski was NOT a "young girl" who was taken advantage of.

She was a grown woman who bragged to multiple friends before she moved to DC that she was going to try to have sex with Clinton.

I do not agree with infidelity but I do not think it was a matter of national security!

The whole thing was a joke in the rest of the world where many men of power have mistresses or even more than one wife.

The whole sex thing is a waste of time. There is no party line on lies and deceit and behaving like scoundrels. Its what could have happened, like blackmail or worse. What if Monica had been an enemy agent?
Boy, lots of similarity , clinton and Jefferson!! laughable at best!.

Kennedy was no honorable dude by other means. Papa Joe bought him the presidency, after his chosen son was killed. He ordered John to appoint Bobby as AG. He didnt have a lot of hope for Chappaquidi Ted. He spent fortunes getting his boys elected for business reasons(money). He wanted to control the nations wealth but he He couldnt run for office because every one had his number, he was dirty and the entire country knew it.

I do think he did some good things for America, we'll never know the rest of the story.

It is true that many great/powerful leaders kept sevice women and men, some like Alexander the Great kept young men for sex before a great battle. It gave them a feeling of power over other men. They were not queers or homos. Been the down fall of more than a couple of them too.

The Republicans have far many more sex scandals than the Dems..Just two off the top of my hat..Mark Foley and the Reverend Ted who had weekly phone calls to the WH discussions about their right wing agenda..Then there's Newt and Rudy w/ their three wives each, and Bob Barr and Bob livingston..and my brain hurts from trying to remember them all. Bush was a falling down drunk w/ two DUI's and was a coke head and you make fun of Clinton's "didn't inhale"??? The Shrub was stoned for 20 years till he found Jesus..Laura was going to divorce him if he didn't straighten up. So you honestly think if his name wasn't GB, he would be anything but the failure he was till elected Gov..And by the way, Bill Clinton NEVER drinks alcohol...And the rumor is Bush has started again. Boy, is he getting old and stressed looking. It must be weighing on his puny little mind all the thousand of people he is responsible for killing and maiming. Where's your pro life now?? What about Iraqi babies and pregnant women and children???Instead of worrying about a few stem cells which will be discarded , what about living breathing people???

Lily, I dont know what planet you are on? You can find equal dirt on either side, the dems are just not held to as high a standard by the press. How bout Gary Studds, remember him, a Dem, how bout Ted Kennedy, you know him, the list continues.
You seem to gather information and trudge thru life wearing blinders.
Iraquis are killing women and children, thats what arabs/muslims do, kill and hate.

You seem to be filled with such hate and so little facts, its not a healthy situation.

Rumors, yeh, good argument there.

She hates Texans and cowboys. They walk and talk funny, and they spit. She needs to eat some great BBQ beef brisket in Texas. That would calm her down a little bit.

It's a well known fact that good BBQ loosens up tightly wound people. It's science. The lip smacking smokey flavor of slow cooked fatty meats makes people see things more clearly.

I know a great place in Taylor, TX, if anyone's interested.

Kevin

I like Muskies. Protect the Resource. Practice CPR-Catch, Photo, and Release.

Kevin, it might be that Jack Daniels in the bbq and the glass beside you that loosens one up a bit!!

I'm more of a blended whiskey man myself, though I don't refuse Jack if offered.

Long neck bottles of beer out of ice filled coolers is the way to go with BBQ in my opinion.

I do believe that some people need more pork and beef fat in their diets. It would relieve some of their stress and prolong their lives.

CPR-Catch, Photo, and Release.

LOL, these posts are cracking me up. Husbands work called off today. SNOW and ICE in TEXAS! Not so bad that he didn't go out and pick up some cold beer, Jack and some BBQ though. It's a good day. :-)

Posted by muskyhopeful (My Page) on Wed, Nov 29, 06 at 15:02

"It was the the independent prosecutor who made a circus of a little sex. Many tax dollar were wasted on that witch hunt."
As the father of a brilliant nine year old daughter, I find it interesting that people on the left think it's no big deal that the President of the United States can have a young woman INTERN under his desk performing an oral sex act on him while he talks on the phone and smokes a cigar.

Heads up, Monica Lewinski was not a 9 year old. She was a grown woman able to make her own decisions.

I too am the parent of a beautiful, brilliant 16 year old daughter. However, I, unlike you, have no illusions that I will be able to have control over her behavior once she is an adult.

Also, what does that have to do with the glut of tax dollars spent on that witch hunt?

Does no one on the left have any concern about the message that was sent to our young people? "Well, it was ok for the President of the United States....no big deal...it wasn't sex....only republicans had a problem with it....clinton's infidelity was no big deal.
Well, maybe it wasn't a big deal to some adults, but I think it had a negative impact on our young people. Yea, Clinton was some kind of role model, that's for sure.

I'm on the left. I sure do worry about what kind of impact role models have on children. And who do you think sets the biggest example for our children? THE PARENTS!

With that said, I think that Britney Spears has a bigger impact on what a young girl does then an old man on TV, president or not!

Infact, in the Monica/Clinton scandal both parties were highly ridiculed. Children also see that. And trust me NO 16 year old girl wants to put herself in a position to be ridiculed.

I worry far more about the example that young female celeberties set because that is who young ladies look up to.

I'm 27 years old and was raised with very high morals. I NEVER looked at Monica and said "Well, if she can do it..." And as a wife, nor do I think for one second that infidelitey is no big deal.

Parents are so quick now a days to blame the media for how their children are acting. If a child is raised correctly the media should not make them consider dropping their moral standards.

I LOVE Texas BBQ Brisket, LOVE IT.

I agree that Britney, Paris and other young celebs have far more influence over today's teens than any President.

Children should be looking to their parents, families and those close to them such as teachers, coaches or pastors to be role models. Instead they took to MTV, whose fault is that? Partially their parents and partially sick pedophile teachers, coaches and pastors who have given good ones a bad name or fear to be close to a child because they might be accused. It is really sad.

Have to agree, parents reap what they sow with their children.

But I am having trouble with the example set by Bush, coke snorting, alcoholic, lost driver's license, draft dodging, daddy's alum position assuring GWB entrance to Yale, etc. Would you want your child using Bush as a role model?

What about the message sent to young boys? Hey it's OK for the President of the United states to get a BJ outside of his marriage and no one thinks it's a big deal.
Yes the Adams the parents are the ones who need to protect their kids from the likes of Britany Spears but GEEZ, after the Clinton porn, they have to protect them from the evening news too? Shouldn't our President be someone for our young people to look up to? We can explain to them why Britany Spears is not a person that they should want to be like. Now we have to say "I want you to grow up with morals, so I don't want you to grow up to be a cheating, lieing, scumbag like the former president Bill Clinton?

I would have been protecting my kids from the evening news long before the Clinton/Monica scandal!!

"We can explain to them why Britany Spears is not a person that they should want to be like. Now we have to say "I want you to grow up with morals, so I don't want you to grow up to be a cheating, lieing, scumbag like the former president Bill Clinton?"

Or most the other people in congress for that matter.

But what I am talking about is the values that parents place in their children throughout their life. If those values are within a child/teenager/young adult the "I don't want you to grow up to be a cheating, lieing, scumbag like the former president Bill Clinton" or other members of congress and our society goes without saying! They already know it!

Wow!

I'm away from the forum for awhile and we're off to radical tightie righties bashing the liberal loosey liberals? and vica versa? When did this become a political forum? And for the most part with rhetorical name calling? Come on folks, I left that behind for a couple months with the mid term elections. However, since you all threw the door wide open.....

I, like our families and friends, were raised as Barry Goldwater Republicans. Agree or not, as we matured all but one out of seven children is now a Democrat, Christian, gun toting, hunter, fisher person and a lover of the out doors, this country, our troops and America. All of us are conservative when it comes to economic matters and liberal when it comes to social responsibility, which we consider our Christian imperative and obligation. Our careers include a CFO, two CPAs, three high school teachers, an insurance agent, plant manager and a nurse. Oddly, the Republican is a social worker, athiest and pretty much the opposite of the foregoing ... go figure. So much for stereo types. Like our collective siblings, I'm proud to be called a LIBERAL. But in all fairness, I'm more similar to the liberal Republican as personified by Nelson Rockefeller than I am to Ted Kennedy or John Kerry.

As a parent (baby just turned 21) we limited television, encouraged reading of anything and everything, encouraged independant thought and discouraged accepting anything a politician, teacher, friend or television said. I couldn't agree more with the_adams that parents have much more to do with how their children turn out than do politicians, sports heroes or tv shows. If my kids are any indication, then there is hope for all of us.

As for the message sent by our presidents to our children, I would much rather deal with a picadilly in the oval office for Clinton or an affair such as DDE and that lesson (of what not to do) than I would with W who lied about why we are in Iraq and then proceed to kill our grown babies (another example of what not to do). Both are moral low ground and if I have to choose between the two as to which is worse, I would choose the latter. But if you agree wrong is wrong, then they are equally bad. After all, is the murderer worse than the rapist? Or is is the other way around? As for whether W was mislead or not, let's not forget that Colin Powell was unable to make a convincing case in his presentation to the UN. Many Americans, myself included, were never convinced that Iraq possessed WMDs. If we're going to invade any country with an evil leader than why not Korea or Idi Amin? Arguably, both as evil or more so than our disposed dictator there.

Soooo, rather than continue this political rant.....is this political debates or animal debates? If someone would like to continue a friendly political dialogue, I am ready and willing to do so. All we risk is a new way of looking at the same issues. But may I suggest we carry on off forum and allow this one to be dedicated to its stated purpose?

"I too am the parent of a beautiful, brilliant 16 year old daughter. However, I, unlike you, have no illusions that I will be able to have control over her behavior once she is an adult."

I get it, it was Lewinsky's behaviour. Sounds like maybe you're another liberal woman in love with Bill Clinton.

I have no illusions as to the control I will have over my daughter's behavior once she is an adult. What I find interesting is that anyone that has a daughter (or son for that matter) can think Clinton's behavior was no big deal. When our daughters are 23 or 24 or whatever Monica Lewinsky was at that time, regardless of their own personality deficiencies, I'd like to think if they are exposed to men in power, much less the President of the United States, those men would have the common decency to not participate in sexual acts even if one of them crawled under the desk and begged for it. It's okay for old Bill, however, to just kick back, light a cigar, and talk on the phone to another world leader. Then the coward didn't even have the balls to admit it to the grand jury.

If you think that's acceptable, I'm sorry for you. In the next presidential election you'll be able vote for another woman that found it acceptable. If she had any respect for herself and this country, she would have walked away from the Whitehouse. Then maybe people wouldn't find her so creepy.

As for Foley, the Kennedys, weird evangelists, or any of these other arrogant bastards, they're all a bunch of losers, on boths sides of the aisle.

"Also, what does that have to do with the glut of tax dollars spent on that witch hunt?"

Clinton committed perjury, that's why those dollars were spent. That money wouldn't have been spent if he would have had the guts to admit he's an idiot. But who gives a crap, right? It was only a little fellatio, all the world leaders are doing it. Everybody lies about sex, why should we care if our President does it?

Believe me, if it was Bush with a young intern under the desk, and the Democrats were running Congress (like they are now), the pitchforks and torches would be out in force. It would make the investigation of Clinton look like an Easter egg hunt.

Now you and the rest of the liberals can come back and tell me blah, blah, blah, Bush lied, Bush this, Bush that.

You know what? I'll admit Bush isn't the guy I hoped he would be. Things have gotten very confusing in Iraq, though I don't think we can stop taking the offensive against fundamentalist terrorism.

Will any of you admit the Clintons are scumbags after honestly assessing their characters? I won't hold my breath.

Kevin

Practice CPR-Catch, Photo, and Release.

Thank you Muskyhopeful, You were a breath of fresh air. I was feeling like I was being suffocated from the left.

I don't know where to even start. I saw three or four long posts since the last time I posted that I'd like to tear to shreds. But I know the people who need to listen to it will be turning deaf ears on it, and those that DO read it, it'll be preaching to the choir, so I'm not even going to bother.

Bush is no boy scout, no doubt about it, and he's exercised some pretty bad judgement. But ANYONE who would take the likes of Clinton, Kerry, or Ol' Teddy over Bush, I really feel sorry for. And as for Gore, I'm SO thankful he didn't win the election in 2000 I don't even want to THINK about how he would've handled 9/11!!

He'd have been another ostrich, like Carter-- hiding his head in the sand!!

Damn you bill vincent! You are going to cause me to make a confesion here. I VOTED for AL GORE! I HATED BUSH because of environmental issues.I actually cried tears of sorrow when Bush won. When 9-11 happened, I got down on my knees and thanked the Lord that Bush was in office. I've loved him ever since. I get mad at him and think he needs to cowboy up, but thank God we don't have a Gore, Kerry,or Hillary yet. They will not protect our country.

If Gore who won the presidency actually made it to the WH winning by over a half million votes, we would NOT be in Iraq. We would have gone to Afghanistan and 3000 of our soldiers would not have died. Bush is a stupid loser whom the world thinks has lost what little mind he has. The worst president in our history..Can you tell I hate him??

Have you looked at Gore lately? Every time I see him I think , Dear Lord, Please forgive me for voting for that man. I look at Bush and say Thank you Lord he won. Best President in our history. I can't figure out why I hated him so much first time around.

The things young boys are gleaning from the current administration is that a long term congressman has been able for years to have sex with his pages. It has been pushed under the rug and the side joke of all. Talk about putting your head in the sand. Finally, one page had the courage to come forward and expose this guy for what he is a PEDOPHILE not a drunk who needs rehab.

We would have gone to Afghanistan and 3000 of our soldiers would not have died.

Lily, I don't like what's heappened with regard to Iraq, either. But let me tell you something-- the thought of Al Gore as president when 9/11 occured is enough to keep me awake at night. He reminds me very much of Carter, who happened to be MY commander and chief when I was in the military, and Carter proved just how inept he was as a C&C during the hostage crisis. Gore would have been no different, except that it would have been worse because it was on such a larger scale, and it happened on our own soil. I also firmly believe that HAD Gore been president, there would have been other attacks since 9/11. Iraq was a mistake. No doubt about it. But it was a mistake based on bad intel and advice from terrible advisors (I'd LOVE to see Rumsfeld croak!). But all this left wing hogwash about how he's turning back into a closet lush and the rest of it, is just that-- hogwash.

Also, if you think the way he's aged since in office is an indication, it's been said many times that ANY man will age 20 years over a four year term as president. ANY man. Look back. You'll see what I mean

Talk about putting your head in the sand. Finally, one page had the courage to come forward and expose this guy for what he is a PEDOPHILE not a drunk who needs rehab.

Labmomma, I couldn't agree any more on that issue. ANY man (OR WOMAN) who molests kids should die a slow painful death. But here's something to think about-- don't just look at the repblicans. What about these liberal judges across the country who are giving pedophiles a free walk when they come to court? The most recent one-- a man who sodomized a 6 year old little girl-- GOT PROBATION!!

Democrat or Republican it isn't about political affiliation with regard to this particular issue of crimes against innocent children. We need to elect judges who will do exactly what you propose to the pedophiles.

That means, however, that everyone who is eligible needs to exercise their right to vote. I personally know several people who will tell me, "I am only one person". It makes me furious. If everyone took this tact, no one would go to the polls. I ask these people, well if you don't care, please go to the poll and vote again for me. I try and explain to someone who doesn't vote, who and why I am voting for. It does make people think about things. If nothing else, you have sparked a thought in an otherwise silent citizen.

We also need to let our lawmakers know what we want. It is very easy to do over the net. You go to either Senate or Congress it allows you to type your State in, it then gives you the links to email anyone who has anything to do with your State/district. I've done it several times and I am so computer illiterate, it's not funny. It takes literally 2 minutes to draft a short email to your lawmakers voicing your concerns. They do listen, I have received written responses, email responses, so I know that someone is reading the mail. May be an assistant or intern, but our concerns will be heard if you take the time to do it.

It makes me sick to my stomach to think of a child, anyone's child in a pedophile's sight. Each state elects or appoints the county and state level judges. The federal judges, however, at all levels, get their jobs based on their political affiliation. Sad but true.

So, yes things can be changed, one small step at a time.

It just doesn't make sense to me to give up, and not try to make things better.

Hold on here! Have you forgotten about Gary Studds for cryin out loud, a Democrat! Reelected even after admitting being a predator; the dems do not hold their own to very high standards. Its kind of silly to argue who is the worst of the lot, there are good and bad on both sides of the aisle.

Look , even gore knows he lost the election, do you think for one second he would have dropped it if he really thought he'd won!
Carter, the easiest person to forget, without a doubt the most failed President in our history as a nation.
I was sick when bush got the nod, my image of him improved for a while but now, I am very disappointed. Now we are looking at a new crop of pres. hopefuls who I am not too hopeful about.
Its not hard to see we are headed for great trouble, the 1st muslim has been elected in the United States, he demands to be sworn in using a Koran!!