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PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Posted by savannarose (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 28, 06 at 8:37

Just saw a AP news article that says PETA targets live church nativity scenes that use animals. Jackie Vergerio, the "captive animals in entertainment specialist" claimed that these animals are subjected to all sorts of "terrible fates" including slaughter, rape (?), and escaping into traffic.
We used to raise livestock and most eventually were used for slaughter. Some neighbors occasionally lost an animal that jumped a fence and got out on the road. It's reasonable to imagine that this could happen at a church manger scene, too, but rape?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Kinda gives you a frame of reference into their mind.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA also targeted a church in Alaska with a nasty letter about their live nativity... and the church only had people standing out in the cold - not animals! Oops, they made a mistake.

We have a pet sheep who will be part of a nativity scene in a few weeks. He will never leave our sight, and I know he will bring a lot of joy to the kids who get to see him up close and pet him. He loves the attention.

Sher


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Was the ACLU there for support of PETA? Those people have nothing better to do.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Nativity animals have been abused and tortured. SavannaRose, your animals may have been slaughtered for food, but I can remember a few years back that some teenage boys took a donkey from a living nativity in Virginia (my state), and slaughtered it by beating it to death. Not how your animals died, is it?

Then, up in the DC area one of the nativity animals escaped the "stable" and was killed when it crossed a busy highway.

I think living nativities are quite festive as long as the church or organization hosting the event properly secures the animals it uses.

The link below shows the "rape" of a sheep at a nativity scene. Yep. It happens. People are scary.

Oh, and the church in Alaska only received an email "protest" from PETA. There was no official demonstration or anything. Not that I am a big PETA fan either...shame on them for making assumptions without doing actual fact finding.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I remember reading about someone who was arrested for bothering animals at the stockmarket years back. He was probably mentally ill as well but I don't see a link between livestock markets and bestiality any more than manger scenes and animal "rapes."


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA definetly walks a thin line. While I don't doubt their heart is in the right place, I hardly think you gain supporters by going to extremes. In my opinion, that only makes people leary of you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for peaceful protesting. I always protest the circus when it comes through, among other travling animal shows, by handing out informative flyers.

But even just days after Steve Irwin died PETA was making cruel remarks about him. I think they could have been a little more sensitive. Even though they do not agree with how Irwin informed the public of conservation of exotic animals, his life purpose was conservation. You can not enter his zoo without realizing this.

Don't get me wrong, I do not think Irwin was infallible but perhaps PETA needs to realize who's on their team and who's not. When they are fighting for such a great cause (I think) they need to choose their battles wisely.

I have not researched the topic at hand, but if only a letter of protest was sent to the church that seems reasonable. Even if only to make the church aware of the dangers that lurk so they will be more on their toes.


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I haven't researched the topic at hand either,and I won't comment on PETA but I will say this.Our church is holding it's 25th. annual live drive through Nativity beginning Dec. 9th.It includes 18 different scenes spread all around the church property with live sheep,donkeys(cantankerous little critters!LOL),a cow and calf and other assorted animals.A few years ago in the Wise Men scene we also used 3 live camels that belonged to a man in the area that has several species of exotic animals on his property.In all the years that we have done this,no animal was ever abused,raped or slaughtered and none ever escaped or got run over! This is basically because we are prepared ahead of time to accomidate the animals and make sure accidents don't happen.Sometimes accidents are inevidible because these animals aren't pets and can be unpredictible.I think this fact is what most people doing this kind of thing don't understand and that is why accidents do happen.


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Truth be told, whereever there are animals there is the propensity for abuse or neglect.


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PETA makes me edgy. Plus, I can't take them seriously when they use naked people to draw attention to their cause...do you thnk people are showing up at their demonstrations to help animals?... or look at naked chicks? Hmmmm....


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA is a good group but they should pick their battles more carefully.. Circuses should be picketed and PETA got the annual pigeon shoots banned here in PA..You know the ones where pigeons were not fed or watered for a day or two ,then let out of their cages and idiots would shoot them. When they fluttered to the ground if they were not dead, just stunned ,the little boys and girls would run out and wring their necks or stomp them to death..Yeah, just the way I'd spend MY Labor Day !!!What fun..


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA is a good group??? bizarre.

PETA = people eating their Animals is good.
But, the other terrorist radical PETA is not so good . They kill animals in the name of saving them. Thats cool, yeh! Thats good!! yeh. Much saving and there won't be any animals left. ALF, thats another good one too. A terrorist group at that, we can really have our children look up to them, yeh!! Maybe even go along for a terrorist outing; Burn barns,burn heavy equipment, destroy slippery bridge deicing systems, GOOD; turn the mink and fox on farms loose to die miserable deaths, thats good, release veal calves to break their legs, good; hard not to appreciate that kind of stuff. Regular GOOD role models.

That "girl" who gets naked and paints stripes on "her" body, now thats really good, maybe the best yet, it aint a girl!!! Its a he/she!! Yeh good huh, it, she, he lives just a few miles from here, I know guys who went to school with him, or her, or??? China thought she was pretty cool too, when they tried being weird over there they got locked up!!

Protest your hearts out, thats ok, maybe good?? do it with a grain of responsibility.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA gives other animal welfare/humane groups a bad name.

They promote terrorism.

They waste money and time and energy that could be used towards doing good.

They are far too radical for me. I've read their websites in depth, recently and I know that many who support them do not realize what their ultimate goals are.

All animals living free, all humans vegetarians.
No leather, no seeing eye dogs, no eggs, no pets, no riding horses, nothing. Total liberation of all animals.


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Yes, and caged veal calves is humane. Give me a break..You people who have no respect for animals make me sick.


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Did someone mention veal? I must have missed that. I won't eat it because I disagree with the way they are raised. That doesn't have anything to do with PETA.

And for your information, this is what Inbred herself wished on livestock. Lovely, huh?

"I openly hope that it comes here." Ingrid Newkirk, PETA
Co-Founder, on her desire for a USA hoof-and-mouth
epidemic. Quotation from:
"Hoping for Disease: PETA Hopes Foot-And-Mouth Strikes in
the United States by Alan Elsner, Reuters, Norfolk VA
4/2/01


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I like veal. Braised veal shanks are one of my favorite things to eat. You know what else is good? Foie Gras.

I know a guy that had dog hot pot in Shanghai. He thought he was getting goat. He said it wasn't bad, but he doesn't want it again. I'll pass on eating dog.

Kevin

CPR-Catch,Photo,and Release


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Veal calves do not live in cages!! What a silly notion.
It helps to be factual, at least to some degree. Veal calves are kept in stalls raised off the ground and fed a high nutrion milk replacer twice daily. The feed is deficient in iron which keeps the meat more white instead of getting red. They are fed for approx. 12 weeks then trucked to the butcher. These calves are not humans and have no human characteristics. What they want is fed and housed; most I have seen acted quite content.
Sure, there are poor managers, as in any enterprise. The ones I have been to were well managed.

Most of those who rail against a given subject have little sense of reality and are poorly informed. usually only perusing propaganda which suits their agenda. They have no interest in learning the total story or broadening their scope.I would not choose to raise veal, its not the way I like to keep animals but they are animals and they supply nutririon to humans.

I actually think it is cruel and inhumane to stack people up 10 stories high in buildings and surround them with concrete and ashpalt with no lawns or trees in sight where they are forced to live a totally un natural life style. They become so depressed that they take drugs and kill and rape each other.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Been off the farm for a few years but we had neighbors who raised veal differently, without confinement. The meat will not look the same but some restaurants wanted that so they could advertise it as "humanely raised" veal.
We raised a few veal calves that way for slaughter,too and the meat tasted great. The calves are healthier and you have less losses.
I believe they actually were able to get a higher price per pound, same idea as "free-range" eggs.
I suppose PETA's against spaying and neutering animals since that would be considered mutilation by humans? It's certainly performed against the animal's will.....


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Rose,
yes, the white veal mostly went to kosher markets, tasteless stuff really! There were a couple of the loose housing vealers near here but I dont think there are any veal operators around now. As a kid I used to raise veal calves; would work summers on dairy farms and take bull calves for payment. We only had horses and maybe a beefer or 2.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

savannarose says...I suppose PETA's against spaying and neutering animals since that would be considered mutilation by humans? It's certainly performed against the animal's will.....
...................................................................... .................................................. Actually Animal Rights groups want them spayed and neutered out of existance so there would no longer be a need for people to own and exploit pets. .......................
The cat, like the dog, must disappear
... We should cut the domestic cat free
from our dominance by neutering,
neutering, and more neutering, until our
pathetic version of the cat ceases to
exist." --John Bryant, Fettered
Kingdoms: An Examination of A
Changing Ethic
(Washington, DC: People for the
Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA),
1982), p. 15.


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You can have tons of respect for animals and have NONE for PETA!!!!

BTW, I've never eaten Veal, nor will I.


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It's been so long since I ate it I don't remember what it tastes like. I'm sure it's probably good, but I refuse to eat it too. I really don't care if they are kept in spotless stalls or whatever. The fact that they are fed milk repacements instead of being allowed to eat grass because it effects the color of the meat is enough for me. I also hear, that because of this diet they have constant diarhrea(sp)


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They have loose stools as most calves on milk do. Ones with diahrea are sick. Veal operations do use a lot of pepto. Few dairy replacement heifers are fed on their dams milk, especially in the larger operations. Of course most bull calves have little value if not raised as veal. Some are raised as dairy beef. The lucky ones, usually today, are embryo transplants and worth big bucks and are quite pampered with straws of their semen bringing $$$. Modern farm practices are a looong way from what they were even 25 years ago. its just a matter of economics.
Veal tastes like whatever its cooked in or spiced with, Ive never seen the great attraction??


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Whatever... I eat meat and I prefer it be raised in a decent environment. I like to think the steak I'm eating came from an animal that knew what it was like to graze in a pasture before it was humanely slaughtered and hit my grill. I won't eat veal and I won't eat that goose liver crap no matter how good it might taste.


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I don't really care what people eat or don't eat, but sometimes it seems people won't eat something for ethical reasons, then eat something else, where if they looked into it, the same ethics could easily apply. It's inconsistent.

What about chicken? They are raised in some pretty nasty conditions. I've heard it stated on professional chef forums that corporate chicken farms are far worse than facilities where ducks and geese are raised to produce foie gras. I'm no expert on animal husbandry, but can see how this could be the case. I've only eaten foie gras a couple of times on special occasions, and it can be very, very, good. Foie gras, lobster, truffles, caviar, a perfect oyster, a piece of fatty tuna, these are foods I want to understand and experience. It can't be done everyday, but I'm going to to do it without regrets when I think I reasonably can. Due to their costs, that's not often. LOL.

That's not what this thread is about, however. PETA sucks. They've managed to get their agenda across in Chicago where Foie gras has been banned. Whole Foods has stopped selling live lobsters due to pressure. What's next?

Kevin

Practice CPR-Catch, Photo, and Release.


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I'll take a nice venison tenderloin ANY DAY!!

My mother used to make veal cutlets when I was a kid, but I didn't care for them-- a little too dry for my taste, but that's about the ONLY reason I wouldn't eat veal.


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I don't want to see veal or foie gras banned. I would like to see people stop buying it because they don't feel it is humane. That's the only reason I personally don't eat it. Most people don't even know what foie gras is (is that the right spelling?) Whatever.. I won't eat it because I know how it came about and I don't want to be a party to it.


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Thanks for the explanation re. animal rights views on spaying and neutering. That is bizarre.


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I'm vegetarian for ethical (and health reasons), and support various animal rights issues. But PETA is nutty. They give animal rights organizations a bad name, and make the rest of us who do care about animals look like whackjobs.


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What Animal Rights Groups would you support and what issues do you support?


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I dont believe animals have rights, rights are reserved for humans. Therefore I support no animal rights assns..


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Lobsters are just bugs. Big delicious bugs. Picketing to stop stores selling live bugs is just plain silly. Biologically they are very, very close to insects......

I have never eaten foie gras, I have no desire too, anything made with liver or any kind does not appeal to me.


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Lobsters are just bugs. Big delicious bugs. Picketing to stop stores selling live bugs is just plain silly. Biologically they are very, very close to insects......

Let PETA try that crap up here (in Maine)! I know more than a few lobstermen that'll show them the "door". LMAO


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Animal Rights is not so much about giving rights to animals, but taking rights away from humans. The right to eat meat, the right to hunt and fish, the right to breed animals, the right to wear fur or leather, the right to have pets, the right to ride horses, the right to show dogs, on and on....


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I am for animal rights. What makes one animal more desirable than another? Would you eat your cat? Would you eat your dog? Well, they do in China and it's uncivilized. And does anyone know how many horses are slaughtered every day for their meat in this country?? How about a nice horses leg? Why not? The pig is way smarter than dogs or cats and yet are eaten w/ not a thought about their right to live. I have a a real problen w/ FFA kids. They raise an animal like a lamb or calf which grows to love the owner like a cat or dog would, and then the kid sells it for slaughter. They are no better than your average sociopath..An aninal is an animal is an animal and if you love your pets, you should care for all warm blooded animals.


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Why am I not surprised.

*shaking my head*


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Equating kids involved in raising animals for food (slaughter)to sociopathic behavior?

The behavior, I believe, you are speaking about are the little Jeffrey Dahmers who torture and kill small animals and keep them in a little box under their bed as souveniers.

ROTFLMAO:))) What's the next "target"?


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Dogs and cats are food items to certain societies, isnt it silly to condemn them for their culture without trying to understand it? Silly for Americans to enact laws making eating dogs and cats illegal, yet accepting other of their practices which may be harmful to other humans.
There are not that many horses going to slaughter at this time, cant even give some away now, some bring $20- $50. A good slaughter market would reduce the national herd which would raise the average value, this in turn would help to ensure more human care for existing animals. Many animals were food items before draft and pets. Horse meat is big in some countries. I have yet to see one reasoned anti argument.
Animals do not experience love as do humans, there are those who are not able to make some distinctions between animal behaviour and human.( I know, some humans act like animals)


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"Why am I not surprised.
*shaking my head*"

Weird, Bill, I'm not surprised either.

Kevin

Practice CPR-Catch, Photo, Release.


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Well I see Lily wants at least one of our rights taken away. The right to eat meat. What do you bet she would be all up in arms if a woman's right to kill her baby was taken away though?


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Unfortunately, that's about typical, though. Save the animals and kill the humans. And that's exactly how most of these animal rights groups feel, too. They seem to forget THEY'RE in the group they're looking to screw!!

As for me, you toucha my steak, I breaka u face!! :-)


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I think PETA is an extremist group. Most people agree with me and consequently PETA doesn't have much influence.

I support rights for humans. Humans should be able to eat meat, hunt, fish, own pets, etc., just as long as they do so in a responsible manner and don't interfere with the rights of others while exercising their rights. All of these activities and more have rules, regulations, and laws to help prevent people from violating the rights of others.

I would not oppose a someone eating something I might consider strange such as a cat, dog, horse, crickets, or who knows what, as long as they legally obtained that food and are not endangering people's lives. If they served to the public or to other people that food must be safe to eat, conforming to health standards and people must know what they are eating.

I think torturing animals should remain against the law, but we need to be reasonable about it. Microwaving a stray cat is torture. Catching a fish with a hook or shooting a deer while out hunting is not torture.

I also think cruelty to animals that are owned by humans should remain against the law. I would expand the current definition though. I think it is cruel to own a pet and not take care of that pet. I think it is cruel to let your animals loose to roam about other people's property, to allow your animals to howl and cry in distress without providing aide or comfort, etc. Basically it is cruel to ignore your animal's physical, social, and emotional needs.

My main concern however is the animal's effect on human beings and only secondary to me is the animal's well being. I am not one of these people who equate animals with humans or believe animals are more important and deserving than other human beings.


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You people should all spend one day in the slaughter house. See how you feel at the end of the day..And I stand by my dig to the FFA kids. I have had about ten psychology courses in college so I know all about the "Jeffrey Dahmer" syndrome and it is a proven theory that when children love to torture and have no compassion for animals , they could turn into a serial killer..I was being facetious,about the FFA kids but they have to be cold hearted kids to bottle feed this pet and it is a pet and raise it for one year and be w/ it every day and groom and wash it and feed it and then kill it. Why are many sobbing their eyes out when their pet is sold. ? .


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they have to be cold hearted kids to bottle feed this pet and it is a pet and raise it for one year and be w/ it every day and groom and wash it and feed it and then kill it.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, ABSOLUTELY WRONG. You couldn't be more off the mark if you were blindfolded. It's not a matter of torturing the animal. It's a matter of having enough respect for the animal so that it's killed humanely, and as much as possible of the animal is utilized so its death isn't for nothing.

Here's the REALLY strange thing- you'll find more respect for animals among hunters than you will among animal rights groups. For the animal rights groups, all the animals are, are a banner for them to carry. For a hunter, the animal's spirit means something, and as a result the hunter has much more respect for his quarry.

As avid a hunter or fisherman as I am, I HATE to see ANY animal killed needlessly. Hell, I even get a sick feeling in my stomach if I run over a squirrel when going down the road! But I have no problem shooting a deer and eating it. The difference? The squirrel was killed needlessly. There was a purpose in the death of the deer.

The same goes for livestock.


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FFA/4H kids are taught hard work and that animals should be raised humanely. They know where their meat is coming from and learn appreciation for that first hand. It's called reality. Kroger's does not make their own meat like so many city kids think. Maybe you should study city kids as opposed to farm kids who raise animals for food. Then see who has the more compassion for animals. These kids know when they start out their animal isn't a pet. Does that mean the animal shouldn't be well cared for while it's here and before it becomes our dinner? I'm sure it does hurt them knowing that animal will someday be dinner, it wouldn't be normal if it didn't hurt. It's called real life and not some video game.
As far as slaughter houses go, if the animals aren't killed quickly and as painlessly as possible they should be fined out of existance. There are laws ya know, and don't believe the crap PETA dishes out.They've doctored videos more than once and there's even been strong evidence that they've participated in torture themselves just to get certain videos they couldn't get otherwise.


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my grandfather was a butcher, I have been to slaughter houses. we have our own hogs and beef butchered and many times do our own; its not an enjoyable experience that one just cant wait for but, if you eat you need to process the food!
My kids were in animal 4-H, they seem normal today with no tendencies to harm others. bunches of kids in theis rural area are 4Hers and all are good kids and become good coitizens.

its my experience that most who take psyc have a need to better understand themselves,somrthing they just cant work out by themselves, most are kinda weird actually. Thats just my own observation growing up in a university town amongst some odd characters.


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Thats just my own observation growing up in a university town amongst some odd characters.

I'm not going to elaborate and really start a stink, but I grew up just off campus from Yale in New Haven, Connecticut, and I couldn't agree with you any more!! LMAO


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To the person who said I have a real problem with FFA kids you might want to get your information strait before saying things. I am an Alumni of FFA and 4-H. I have been doing FFA for four yrs now and this will be my final yr. Sorry to inform you I have no mental problems and am into animals right I have done several debates on PMU foals. We go into our animal projects knowing that our animals are not pets and our intentions are to give these animals a loving and caring life until their slaughter date. I have raised two veal calves and yes I have cried each time loading my animals on the slaughter truck, but at the end of the day I am happy to know that my two calves have lived happy healthy lives. Would you rather an FFA student let their calf run in the back yard feeding on grass and milk or would you rather a veal farmer purchase that same calf and have it live suspended off the ground or in a small box where they never see the outside? The whole goal in FFA and 4-H is to show children where their food comes from not from a box in the groceiry store. I hope you can learn a bit more about a subject before you make such a harsh comment next time and I hope you have learned a bit from me.


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Bravo! Amintz,you give young people a good name. Bless you.


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What you need to realise is that alot of people who protest things like FFA and 4H-- all they know is what they've read on left wing blogs and off animal rights tracts and fliers. They have no knowledge of what they're talking about. Unfortunately they're also usually the most vocal. Kinda like my father used to say-- those with the least to say are usually the ones flappin their yaps the most.


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Can we stop with the generalizations?

I have never seen nor heard any protesting about FFA or 4-H on any Democratic political blog or platform or by any Democratic candidate.

Whomever that was earlier in the thread is upset at FFA and 4-H on their own, not because they are a Leftie!

I was in the FFA in school and have taught classes for 4-H kids and know they are both wonderful organizations. I've employed kids that were in both several times over the years and they were responsible mature kids and I picked them over others when hiring.

Junior Dahlmers they were NOT!


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my apologies.


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I'm not able to find the referwence to Democrats?? I did see a reference to "left wing" blogs which do seem to be ultra liberal with knee jerk type responses, not more central minded.

It would be silly to think Democrats in general are anti meat, hunting, 4H or any other populat American activity.


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I have been accused of being a "leftie". I don't care if people want to hunt, never would think of trying to take that right away. I am not anti-meat. I just don't want hunters on my property hunting, this past week has been a nightmare. I don't want them there because they could accidently kill me, or my child, or my pets. That is the only reason I don't want them there. Has nothing to do with their rights to hunt. My dad and brother are age-old responsible bow hunters.

Many other rights that us lefties are being accused of wanting to take away, I don't want to take away either.

What I don't want is to stop research, and those progressive types of science, I guess that puts me on the left since I have a child who could benefit from that research. I guess I am in a different position than those of you who have not had a family member or friend affected by a serious health situation. It is very tough to watch your child suffer.

I am, however, being pushed further to the left by our current resident idiot in chief. UGH what a disappointment. This is what is representing all these intelligent Americans in the 21st Century? What is our Country coming to? Granted, I didn't vote for him and always thought I needed to support our leader, but come on, how much can one stomach? If he uses his new word "foment" one more time, I am literally going to vomit. Sorry, Tourette's LOL, back to topic.

As for the gal who thinks the 4H/FFA kids are cruel, get a grip. Please go back to your psych classes and ask your professor to explain the Dahmer Syndrome to you again. The FFA/4H kids aren't torturing their animals, quite the opposite.

Thanks amintz for posting. Also, it is wonderful to hear of a young person who has participated in something good, rather than hanging out at the mall or worse.


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Thanks Bill

BTW, told my DH about your boat incident, he thoroughly enjoyed it.


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If God wanted us to be vegetarians He wouldn't have made cows out of steak!!!


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And not given us canine teeth.


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And not given us canine teeth.
Weeeelllll....not so much. Horses have canine teeth too. I suppose the purpose in horses for these teeth is battle, since (as best I can recall) only male horses have them.

BTW, I am a meat eater too, just wanted to point out that vegetarian-beings can also have canines.


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cindyb_va,
I believe your refering to what is called "wolf teeth" on a horse. Those were at one time, very long ago "tusk's", not teeth. Both sex's have them, but they are usually removed, as they no longer serve a purposed in todays modern horses. Much like wisdom teeth in a human, can cause more pain than they are worth.
I too eat meat along with my veggies and fruit, as did my forfathers, the cave men. :O)


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But which are our "brownie-eating" teeth? LOL.

Oh yeah -- PETA SCHMETA!


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I once had access to an office building PETA occupied. Everyone there smelled. Why? Because they didn't want to use any kind of soap that had anything to do with any type of breathing creature.

They also didn't want anything to do with honey. Why? They didn't want to disturb the bees.

This group is nutty.

SG

P.S. PLEASE don't lecture me about saying something negative about nutty people. I know it's not spiritual, but it it's a fact.


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No lecture from me, that's for sure!!


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Guys...just because PETA is nutty doesn't mean that vegetarians and vegans are nutty. ;) You may not support anything/everything that PETA does (and trust me, I rarely support anything that support PETA does), or everything that vegetarians or vegans do, and you may not even understand why the latter do what they do, such as not wanting anything to do with honey...but calling people who don't want anything to do with honey nutty is extreme (vegans, generally by definition, do not eat honey). It just shows your ignorance as to what veganism is or means.

Don't get me wrong -- I know that to a lot of people, vegetarianism/veganism probably seems "nutty". Some of you think it's fun to crack jokes in here about how God intended everyone to be meat eaters, and you probably don't think about how that might make those of us who are not meat eaters feel, or...maybe you just don't care ;) And I fully recognize that vegetarianism/veganism does tend to attract the "fringe" element. But there are quite a lot of normal people that are vegetarians/vegans...our beliefs may not be as standard as yours, but we're not nutty.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Rivkadr, good post. I am an omnivore married to a mostly-vegan. Vegans eat no meat, fish, fowl, insect, dairy...

Each person has choices (if they live in a wealthy society like ours) about what they chose to eat, and why. DH avoids meat and dairy for two reasons: health and ethics. He does not want to get clogged arteries. He believes in studies that say that if we all ate vegetarian, there would be a food surplus, because so much biomass goes into feeding the animals that we later kill for food. If we used those resources to grow food for people, politics and disasters would be the only two reasons that anyone would ever have to go hungry. We all know that the human race is not so advanced that we could solve our problems enough to share resources equally. DH does too, but he lives his beliefs, and that can be a hard thing to do. DH does not impose his diet on me, his father, or our two dogs. He does not lecture or belong to any groups that promote his lifestyle to others who do not chose it.

As for growing an animal that you raise to slaughter, it is the reality of rural life, and only two or three generations ago, reality for all of us. One can raise an animal humanely, love it as it grows and know that it will be slaughtered and eaten in the end. It teaches us humility and to honor the life of the animals we eat for food.

Think about how the native peoples of this continent lived before Europeans came. They did not decimate the buffalo herds, we did. They had a philosophy that one should honor and thank the animals that die so that we may eat. They did not waste the animal, but used as much as they could. I heard a native american man once describe the soft-footed way that his people danced. They did not stomp on the earth, but set their feet down gently on the earth that gave us life. That always has seemed like an excellent metaphor for the way we should strive to live.

My DH thinks that PETA are nutty. He wears leather shoes, so technically, is not a true vegan, by some definitions. PETA's most radical beliefs are that we humans have been the worst scourge on this planet, and we should die out so that the animals, plants, viruses, fungi, and bacteria (I hope I didn't leave anybody out - LOL!) could have the planet back to grow naturally.

As for me, I eat meat and strive to be able to live my own ideals better than I am doing now. But I have a right to decide what those ideals are, and so do all of you.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

We have canine teeth to eat meat with-if we choose to. We have reproductive organs to reproduce with-if we choose to. We're equipped for both options. It seems like it would be a simple fact of anatomy.
Peoples' diets are their own business but it's a major
step away from reality to think we are not descended from ancestors who ate meat when they could get it. How much more "natural" could you get than to eat a primitive diet which would include game? But then PETA's against hunting, fishing, etc.
Where does PETA get its facts/ rationalizations from?


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Vegetarians are fine with me, I grow veggies for sale at market. We have vegetarian friends who are perfectly normal in every way, they just dont eat meat. Anyone who doesnt fir the mainstream is open to joking, most take it lightly.
Indians were not the great environmentalists mant think they were. Some times they would run an entire herd of buffs off a cliff for a bit of meat, or kill a buff and take only the hump. If they would have had more modern arms and equipment they would have used it. It was the wonton killing by market hunters that destroyed some species and they would have continued if given the chance. Hard to believe the numbers of animals killed and shipped to new York city alone of just pigeons.

proud member of PETA(people eating their animals)


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I've read that about Indians, too but do think overall they seemed to have had a different philosophy re. hunting, nature, etc. than Europeans did.
What people choose to eat is completely their own business. Just wish PETA respected that-and alot of other choices-too.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA isn't about respect. It's about fascism.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I see no reason why you should be inclined to pay any attention to what I think.

I don't particularly care what you think of me or my vegetarianism. What I DO object to is that vegans/vegetarians are being equated in the same breath with PETA people in previous posts. PETA people are nutty, IMO. They also are almost all vegans or vegetarians. But the converse is not true -- not all vegans or vegetarians are PETA-like people (or nutty). That's the point I was trying to make :)

The problem I have with people like PETA is that they demand that we ALL live THEIR way.

Yes, that's the biggest problem I have with PETA as well. And that so many of their viewpoints are so extreme as to be unreal.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Personally I think PETA has nothing better to do with their time on this one.
I own donkeys and you can bet they are not abused! I loan them to the Church to be used each December for the Live Nativity. That is how most Churches get the animals they use. They are loaned to them. My animals are loved, tame and it shows. Anyone who tried to hurt my girls would have to come through me. Here is a link to other people who use animals for Live Nativity Scenes and they aren't abused!

http://www.orednet.org/~jrachau/defined.htm


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Good for you! Thanks!
We're going to try and go to one of the live Nativity scenes here this weekend.
Wonder if there will be any PETA protestors?


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

The little village down the road has a nativity thing in the lawn in front of the post office, they have asked to use our animals in the past. They have plastic critters and people in it except for 2-3 nites befor Xmas. Pet reps tried to cause a ruckus there 1 time some years ago but were kind of ignored and pushed aside. They actually increased public participation in the event instead of causing folks to quit or leave.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

>PETA definetly walks a thin line. While I don't doubt their heart is in the right place, I hardly think you gain supporters by going to extremes.

Um. PETA believes in total animal liberation. The organization's position is that having pets is evil, nevermind eating meat. THey aren't in the least interested in safegaurding dogs and cats--they think that they should not exist. Oh, and they support extremist borderline terrorist groups and kill animals.

Heart in the right place? Hardly.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

I would never eat veal.How cruel for the baby cow to have such a short life.
And I think that everything bad you people say about PETA isnt always true as well.They have done alot of good in certain causes.Like the KFC thing.If people actually knew how horrible and cruelly those chickens were tortured,it kinda would make you not want to eat their chicken (at least if you have a heart)
I love all animals and support them any way I can,even if I cant do much.We live in a day and age where animals are NOT needed so much for food! To the person who said if God intended us to be vegitarians he wouldnt have gave us cow for steak.Besides the fact that Red meat is extremely bad for you...hmm,God couldnt have wanted us to eat cow that much if it is so bad for us.Heart disease anyone?


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

LILLY- do you eat honey?

PETA is a crock. Plain and simple. Ingrid Newkirk is your psychopath, not the FFA kids. She is contradictory in her words and does nothing for the well being of animals. I refuse to support any company or celebrity that is affiliated with PETA. Why should I buy a product that will donate a % to help her crazy notions?

If you haven't seen Penn and Tellers BullS&I* on PETA, check it out!


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

Got a url?


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

We borrowed the dvd from a friend, if you have limewire or another "sharing" site it should be on there.
I don't know if you can rent them from netflix or not, but it is worth it!


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

PETA is crud. They go much too far in their 'protection'. As for a comment about eating meat, meat is not bad for you. All things, including being a vegatarian can be bad for you. Most doctors would agree, putting fad diets aside, eating everything in moderation is just fine.


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RE: PETA Protests Live Nativity Scenes

A sheep got loose from a local nativity scene in my area yesterday. They packed up all the animals and didn't even notice, and were heading back to wherever they're all kept. A friend of mine found the sheep, half-alive and attemptingn to drag itself out of the road. It had apparently been hit by a car and left for dead, with a severed back leg. Animal control had to call the company/church who was responsible for the animal to even let them know the sheep was missing. Of course this animal will now be put down.

My question is WHY is it necessary to have live animals for these scenes? I can not count the amount of times I've seen them tethered up outside, no food or water in sight, in freezing temperatures alone. And yes, we had snow this weekend when the animals were tied up outside. And how many stories do we hear about them escaping and meeting similar fates like the sheep from my area? Why is it necessary to subject the animals to it? I don't get it.


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