Thanks Carla. I just wish we could edit our posts. Even this last one, I wish I could, but I will not ask Garden Web to do it again for me. Of course the above post is a close copy of the last one that I had posted here on the subject. I copied it from the one I posted to my friends on our B&B board. I should have edited it first I guess. I did have one reply from Florence on this particular post, but as I said, it was pulled. Anyway our grandson did come at Christmas to us and we had a great time with him, as well as some good visits with our Daugher Louise and Ryan's cousins. It was a great Christmas. His dad, our son also got permission to have a visit with him at our house. It went very well. Neither Ryan or us had seen him for a few years. We keep in touch with him (Ryan) by phone and a couple of weeks ago visited the foster parents in Victoria who had come to the island for a short vacation. Anyway, after my first posts on this subject, which was received with encouragement and kindness, I just wanted to update you. Will tell more aftr the JDR in Edmonton on 13th March. Pauline

I know there is a lot more to the story than you could possibly ever tell us and that sometimes you have to be there to actually understand. I just tried to look at what you were saying and tried to offer help. When I said about them going to court and taking the kids~I meant to also add that they could also just come and get them. Going to court was of course the extreme. It does make the situation a little different when I know they had you take them so they wouldn't totally loose them. Most people in they're situation would be in denial of a problem and keep the kids until the state did step in and even then they're in denial. It is good that they realize to some extent that there is a problem. What happened with your DIL that she is the way she is? Did her mother do the same as she's doing with her kids and that's why she never learned things? Or is it that she had a problem that they didn't accept was there and this is the end result? Most of the examples of things that she couldn't do are simple things that can very easily be learned, as you said. I guess it makes you realize just how lucky we are. We take advantage of being able to every day little tasks that are VERY hard for others. After reading your last reply I have a different out look with your situation. I can see that your son isn't really trying to be selfish. He made a few mistakes (like getting her pregnant this time) but he has to really love her to deal with all of this. I guess from what I read previously I just thought he thought it was easier this way and didn't care if he had the kids or not. Does he call and come see them and does your DIL also? I would think this has to be hard on them, too. Has anyone tried to contact your DIL's parents? Maybe just to ask them what her history was and so on. I thought it sounded like she just disowned them but why? Like if the sexual abuse story was all made up, what was the reasoning behind that? (Just went back and reread and I saw about her mother calling SS when the daughter got outside while the mother was asleep. I can understand why she called SS~the child was in danger. I wish my MIL had the guts to do that to SIL and BIL. The kids about 2 years ago~they were 4 and 2~packed a bag and decided, well Eric decided, to go get Mommy at work. They were outside in t-shirts and diapers and/or underwear in the middle of winter! Meanwhile they're father was in the house sleeping away. They were too cheap to send the kids to a sitter so BIL worked 11-7 and then had to stay up with the kids until his wife got home around 3pm. The kids were forced to nap or stay in they're rooms most of the day while he would sleep! They got out twice! They happened to live across from the school and one of the teachers saw these two and took them inside and called the police. BIL just happened to think he better call the police and report them missing. Later that day they were laughing about the whole thing!!!) Her past may be of great help for you guys now to deal with all this. Did she come from a very loving home? Would all the attention and love and support be something that could help her greatly? I know you said she would make things hard if she came to live with you but would the outcome be better for her and your son and their kids? Would it be any harder than it could be to care for 3 kids until they are adults? I don't know if I am any help. I guess talking about it and getting this out helps a little more than anything. Taking it one day at a time will help also. You can't really worry about what will happen when the baby comes until that day comes. I'm sure you'll do alright no matter what happens. It truly does sound like your grandson is doing much better with you and you're teaching him so much. I hope you're enjoying this time. It also is great to know you took in Caroline because she's not really your biological grandchild and many people are different with step grands. Maybe you can help her out before it's too late, also. Many of the "problems" that you have with her may just be because of her age. It's that pre-teen age and you think you know it all. Also I don't know if you had daughters but some people will say they are harder at this age and if your other children were boys, that will make it harder for you. It's certainly going to be different. Also, she's older and had more influence from her mother and others in her life. It also sounded like she had to take care of herself a lot of the time and maybe she thinks she doesn't need help now? Plus she probably wasn't used to having rules or someone at least making sure she stuck by them. Zachery was pretty small and young when you got him so he's learning most of his stuff from you. YOu and your husband will be in most of his memories as a child and you'll have a great effect on who he becomes. I just greatly admire you for what you have taken on. Good luck with the future!

Ok...well I thought I would give my thoughts...you are so right...there is no reason for jealousy because how could any parent not want the grandparents to love their child... But here is where the reptile...a snake in this case spits venom....when a DIL sees that her children may lean more favorable to their husbands mother...that is a no-no.....in my case, I am the more fun grandmother...my grandchildren gravitate to me when around both grandparents.... My DIL hates it and likely me as well...and for this reason...she just backed off in our lives...our son basically goes with her flow...so we are grandparents with a lot of love to give but only when we initiate a time with them....my son only comes over with his family on a holiday or a meal is involved...but I have had some foot issues in the last couple of years...not as active...and just had surg. To correct these issues...no visit...DIL or son has not gone out for a card for the kids to send...nothing ever nevrr... This got worse when DIL's mother left her husband and moved to the area...she used me for years as a babysitter...hated to see any attention her children gave me or me to them...she did not seem that interested in her own grandmother...so maybe that was the telltale sign of who she is.. While it takes a village, I am no village idiot...I know when I am being rejected....now my other DIL is expecting and I can tell it will be the same way...she knows how close my grandchildren were to me...she has a mother..she will protect her mothers best interest...I have decided to just let it be.... I am not going to put myself out there for anymore hurt...life is too short...and I am dealing with other issues in my own home to worry about someone elses....she is the most controlling person I have ever seen...she is even trying to control what people buy the baby for the baby shower tomorrow...which thankfully I am not attending.. I refuse to show up in a boit cast and crutches only 3 wks from surgery for this woman...its not the babys day yet...its still hers...I bought some great gifts for the baby, but was told that she told her own mother if she did not get the right item, she would take it back... I even hesitate to give these items to her....for fear it will not be to her liking....never mind they are very nice items....this is just what my sons went out into the world and married...the total opposite of their mother....

I have wonderful memories of my Grandmother. Unfortunately, I came along fairly late in life and didn't know the others. You know what I remember? The time she spent with me. I use to spend the night with her and we'd play cards for hours. she didn't have much money and lived with her friend in the upstairs of her home. It was a small upstairs and just right for the two of us. I'm getting warm all over just remembering :-) I have a son that hasn't had the benefits of good Grandparenting and I feel bad for him. His step Grandma is so busy volunteering and doing good stuff for others that all the Grandkids seem unimportant. Her and my Dad have never even had him spend the night and he's 18 now. Too old to care. My husbands side was even worse. From the day he was born they made it clear they were never going to babysit and they didn't. They never built a relationship either. I don't know if your retired or still working, but how special it would be to make time for them during summer vacation or other holidays and spend special time with you. I know when our son was little the pool at the hotel was the greatest entertainment, and it didn't have to be fancy. A walk, an ice cream, etc all willl make memories for that child to hold for the rest of their lives, and it will make them both feel real special. Perhaps you could even be a catalist for the relationship between the grandkids if they don't get to see each other much. I don't have years of wisdom to pass on, just some stuff I appreciated and treasure and regret in the life of my son and his cousins. How wonderful that you cared enough to ask on this forum. I bet your going to be wonderful Grandparents!