This is going to be a long one, laced with sarcasm and hurt and anger. I have lived with this child being this way for about 10 years and tonight I called her and told her that she had a limited amount of time to get her shet together or she was out of here. Her cat too.

I have a disability that prevents me from doing anything at times. It is a very painful sciatic nerve disorder and I have had it for about 11 years. I think that the pain and the meds are two of the main reasons that I have not taken care of this sooner. I think she has taken advantage of that. I have trouble following through with things, get blind sided with the pain and forget about chore situations. She has had her bedroom in the basement since she was 10 and sometimes I can't even go up and down the stairs for days at a time. Hence, not checking to see if she has done what I have told her too.

Tonight I go downstairs to do a load of laundry. At the bottom of the stairs is the cat box. There is vomit or excrement in front of it. It has been there for 2 days. Her bedroom door is open and I can see that you can't even see her floor. There is trash, clothing, dirty dishes, you name it, it is there. I have been giving her deadlines and trying to help her get this done. She is in school full time and works part time. I have not wanted it to come to this but when I called her BF to see if she was there and he told me that she was at a movie with her girl friends I blew. I called her, no answer, she called back and I dropped the bomb. GET IT ALL CLEANED UP NOW OR GET OUT. IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF THE CAT'S BOX AND VOMIT IT GOES TO THE POUND. I DON'T EVEN CARE IF YOU LIVE WITH YOUR BOY FRIEND, YOU ARE OUT OF HERE. The last sentence is a biggie for me because, as some of you know, my religious beliefs don't support that but........too bad.....I'm fed up. When I get really mad all bets are off.

DD has an excellent GPA. She managed a subway at 17 years of age and another store after that job. She can do it if she wants to. Why would she disrespect me so? Other than this issue she is such a good kid! We have a great relationship outside of this "dirty" little secret.

Maybe this is what it will take for her to clean her room. I have offered to help her, offered to do it myself when I felt good. It isn't like I'm being unreasonable about it. At least I don't think so.

Now my DS16 just came home with tales of his GF's SF who is a drinker, being an a$$ tonight. Evidently he is off to jail tomorrow for leaving the scene of an accident. DS16 is afraid that GF's SD hurt her after he left. DS16 has been sitting on the end of our bed talking to us about it and crying. WTH?

Well, there you have it. I have vented and I feel better. I can see what I should have done years ago but what do I do now? I want her to finish school. I know that she is stressed with her school and work load but if I rented to her I'd evict her behind. Have you guys ever dealt with this kind of thing? Could this be a deep psychological thing with her?

Again....I understand that you are hurting and I'm sorry for that.

And, don't think I can't relate. I have a younger kid with a very messy room. I have tried everything. Nothing works; I figure it really is his room so he's in charge of it. Once I changed my way of thinking on it, it hasn't bothered me as much. I simply close his door when people come over.

We run out of dishes and silverware because she will have so many dirty dishes in her room. At 20 years old why in the world shouldn't she be expected to keep her living area clean? We are helping her with school, she has no chores, she does not pay rent. There are pop cans, food containers, food, wet towels, dirty dishes and so on.

It seems ridiculous to me that the answer is to shut the door. This is the only thing that I ask of her. Why would I not have this right?

She is working on it as we speak. She is sick of too. She would have to be.

When I lived at home, at 18, my room was a disaster. There were dishes everywhere. My clothes were all over the floor. I had weeks old half eaten sandwiches shoved under my bed. You could barely get into my room for the mess. I was, as your daughter seems to be, a productive, high acheiver, who excelled at school, and did volunteer work at the nursing home on weekends, and held a part time job in the school library. But I was a slob.

My mother used to clean it up after me when she couldnt stand the mess anymore, but it always returned to the mess in a fairly short period of time, usually within a week.My mom would occasionally flip out on me, and we would be mad for days at each other.

Finally, my mom totally flipped out on me and gave me much the same kind of ultimatum that you are giving your daughter. Clean it up, or leave. She screamed, she yelled, she shook her finger in my face.

I left. I moved in with my best friend and her family, and I didnt speak to my mother again until the birth of my first child, 8 years later. We reconciled then and are very close now, but we both regret the wasted years because of that ultimatum. Ultimatums dont change people.

Is that what you want? When you give someone an ultimatum you risk losing the relationship. GIving ultimatums is a last resort, and only if you mean what you say. If you are content with her moving in with her boyfriend and possibly not speaking to you for years because of hurt and anger, go ahead. Tell her to get out if she wont clean up.

In my opinion, there is nothing more important than the relationship. There is always a way around it. She may never be as neat as you wish, but there is probably a way to get a small compromise, maybe one step at a time. A good way would be to work on the cat issue first, and forget the rest for now until the cat issue is well under control. THen the bathroom.

After I moved out, I had a full scholarship to college. I lived on campus. I was a slob there too, but less of one because I was embarrassed to have other people see my dorm room. By the time I had my first apartment, I was able to keep the place clean for a few days at a time, but if I didnt stay on it, it got messy within a week. Finally, when my kids were born, I got a cleaning service to help me weekly with the big chores, and I was able to keep up with the day to day cleaning. At this point in my life, the house is very neat. My closets are still a disaster though, and even though I fold my husbands clothing and put it neatly in his drawers, I still shove things every which way into my own. I dont mind. I like who I am, and I certainly have other talents.

So people DO grow out of this. My second oldest son, who is 25, was a total slob while at home and all through college. His room made my stomach turn. I cant say it didnt bother me, but I didnt over react. Now, in his own place, he has gone through the same struggle I did. He can keep it clean for a few days at a time, and then it starts to pile up again. He has just hired himself a cleaning service, because he LIKES living in a clean place.

There is hope for her. SHe will most likely be neater as an adult. Dont fracture the relationship over this.

what I would do is insist on the cat box being done, and remind her every day, or leave a note for her every day about the cat box. It takes a month or so for a habit to be formed that wont be broken. After the cat, slowly move to another issue. Dont expect it to be fixed all at once. Small victories deserve applause too.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion and the choices that you, personally made concerning this issue in your own life.

I have done all of the things that you have suggested. I have done it all and then some to try and work this out with my DD. I love her dearly. I have given my all as a single mom to her and DS. I think it is past time for her to comply.

She and I are speaking. Our relationship will not be estranged because of this. I understand and appreciate your points concerning this however I reserve the right to have a certain level of cleanliness in my home. I am certainly not a perfectionist nor do I expect anyone else to be. I feel that I have turned a blind eye to it long enough.

I think it is unfair and unrealistic of anyone to expect that subjecting the rest of the family to this filth is acceptable. Used tampons left out in the bathroom, overflowing onto the floor from the trash can, thrown on the bedroom floor is not a small issue to me. Blood all over the toilet seat.....honestly....who is pushing whom here?

IMHO you made the choice as a young person to push your mother over the edge. You made the choice to disrespect your mother to the point of severing your relationship for 8 years. Unless, of course, you tried to have a relationship with your mother and she refused. To hold out and hold onto your filthy habits instead of complying with your mother's wishes was your choice. If you were as capable as you state that you were and as intelligent as you appear to be I would think that you would have been able to make that concession to please your mother. Perhaps there is a mental block in an intelligent person's mind that will not allow the mind to transfer organizing intelligent thoughts and putting them on paper to organizing a living environment and being clean. I am not being sarcastic, I am serious. If my DD has a problem I would help her. When she has time to socialize I have a hard time thinking that she has put forth her best effort.

How she keeps her own home will be none of my business. I don't feel I'm asking too much. As I have said I am not asking for perfection. Don't you think that she would feel better about herself and feel less frazzled if she lived in a cleaner space?

I go in and whip everything into the trash old glasses with milk dried inside, bowls, cups, silverware with mold on it ... you name it ... it all gets whipped out ... my SD19 is well ... I'll use the gentlier term of "hoarder" she "saves" everything ... (only because she doesn't throw it in the trash) she has trash bags in her room right now full of stuff ... laundry smells moldy ... its just gross ....

I do this with my own and my SC ... "whipping day" is just about every six months ... I toss every thing that isn't nailed down and they know it ... socks stuffed under the bed broken toys school work ... everything. The trash man hates me ... says "oh it must have been whipping day" I toss the signs out too. So they know :).

All the kids have two weeks notice to go in pick up the stuff they want to keep SD19 too then come whipping day no complaints nothing ... not allowed if you wanted it you should have picked it up ... (I do keep the stuff I know they want its not like I have a dumpsters outside although I would love one) My SC go to their mom's on the weekend so I have 2 whole days to clean it and one day of a sparkling room before they come home and destroy it again.

If you can't do it ... hire a company and tip well :) ... give it to her for her christmas gift and if you are lucky maybe her birthday is in june... twice a year get it to your liking. :)

The other day I was telling my neighbor that my DD had to finish folding and putting away her clothes. She looked at me and said "______ does her own laundry?" I told her that she is responsible for putting it in her basket and bringing it to the living room. I wash and dry it for her, then I call her out and she folds and puts it away. She said that she wished her 12 year old would do that. WHAT? 12 years old and not putting away their own laundry? I was washing my clothes from the time I was 12. Sorting, folding and putting away at age 8.

My mother liked to tell the story of going to college and finding a girl in the laundry room crying. She was 18 and didn't know how to operate the machine. My mother said she felt that was child abuse. I'm inclined to agree. By the time children are 18 they should know how to keep a house, go grocery shopping, cook, change a tire, etc. My dad made me take off all four tires and put them back on before he'd let me get my driver's license. Ohhhh I hated him and cursed his name behind his back to my friends, but the first time I got a flat I was blessing him up and down!

Believer, tell your daughter the truth. Tell her you're sorry for blowing up but that you are frustrated because you're worried about her health (the cat feces can have e-coli, toxoplasma parasites and other nasty germs) and you are concerned about bugs/vermin (vermin can carry awful diseases too, like leptospirosis, which killed a friend of mine in high school). Tell her that the common areas of the house need to be kept clean, and that includes having all the dishes returned to the kitchen so others can use them.

Tell her how proud of her you are, that she is working, that she is going to school, that she is making the right choices about living by the morals and values you taught her (ie, not moving in with her boyfriend even though she is of age to do just about anything she wants).

But guests have to be able to use the bathroom too. Maybe start a "cleaning day" (at my house it's Saturday) where the house is cleaned from top to bottom. Put cleaning supplies in her bathroom. Get a nice to/from box to carry dirty dishes/other items back and forth from the kitchen. Maybe a breakfast tray?

Do you charge rent? Perhaps you should volunteer that (if you don't already charge) if she doesn't want to clean you will need to hire someone to clean, and she will need to pay for it. Perhaps there's a neighborhood teen who would like to make some pocket money changing the litter box?

You owe her nothing. She is an adult. You have the right to expect standards in your home. Tough love. If you do it with love and respect, she will eventually understand that you had such high standards from her because you love her, and you want her to be healthy and succeed.

the thing is she does not live at home. when she visits me or her dad, she makes the same mess again. lol that's who she is. maybe she will change one day, maybe not, probably not. i don't care. that's who she is.

your DD will not live at home forever, she will be gone one day. you'll have a clean house but she won't be there.

as about not taking care of the cats, this is wrong. this needs to be done. Dd is messy but she takes care of her rats (yes she keeps gross rats eewww).

on the other hand sometimes when people suffer from depression they refuse to clean up. maybe you need to look into that.

Whatever you do, please don't throw her out or send her cat to the pound.

Those things can't be "undone".

Anyway - I think a big part of the problem is going from "turning a blind eye" to "You're outta here!" in no time flat. That's extreme, and unfair in the sense that you've conditioned her to ignore your previous warnings. Never, ever issue empty threats. If you threaten something, you have to be parpared to back it up. If you back her into a corner now, you might not like what happens. Do you really want her to move out? Not when she's successful in school and moving out might mean moving in with her boyfriend.

Philosophically, I'm in the camp that says "Pick your battles" up to a point, but also that "Minimum standards must be upheld." And clearly, things have escalated below the 'minimum standards' point.

Personally, I have used and can highly recommend some variation of the 'whipping day' strategy. A few years back, I bought a cute red trash can at IKEA, and told the boys that every Thursday, I would go through the house and toss 'discarded stuff' into the red trash can, which sat in the play room. And that they had until the next trash day to reclaim and put away anything they wanted to keep -- anything left in the trash can would go out in the trash or to Goodwill. I swept through the house as promised, and never had to do more than publically peek into the can and remark "Gee, I'm surprised." before the stuff got put away.

While that approach was good for the 'whole house creep', it didn't really do much for bedrooms and bathrooms. For bathrooms, I've found a plastic pail or basket with each kid's toiletries to be a fantastic solution. Anything left out on the counter triggered a "Sonny, your toothbrush and toothpaste weren't put away this morning." [pause] "I'll just turn off the TV while you go take care of that." [TV off, bland smile] And if necessary, "You can turn the TV back on once you've taken care of your business." [Stand and wait until they get up to do it.]

For clothes and stuff all over the bedroom, I'd try a 'modified whipping day' approach. Right now, her room has got to be overwhelming. Reclaim the dishes yourself and drop everything else into large heavy duty trash bags. Tell your daughter she has one week to put away the stuff she wants to keep and that anything unclaimed will go to Goodwill on this date. If you're like most American families, part of the problem is probably that she has too much stuff! Giving half (or more!) of it away will make it easier for her to keep her room clean. From then on, I'd try to agree on a once-a-week 'sorta clean' day. Keep your 'tidiness bar' low, but hold her to it using TV, car priveledges, computer access -- whatever necessary.

As far as the cat goes, you have the right to insist that your home be kept in a reasonably sanitary state, and overflowing litter boxes and cat puke just don't cut it. I would flat-out state that changing the litter-box weekly is a condition for keeping the cat; if she doesn't care that much about keeping the cat, you will find it another home.

Good luck --

It's a respect issue, IMO.
I believe it is disrespectful to leave a mess. No one else wants to put up with your filth anymore than you want to put up with theirs. It's rude of DD to have all the dishes in her room, and to leave the bathroom so filthy that no one else will use it. It's inconsiderate to those that live with her. It's selfish and shows complete lack of thoughtfulness to the family (and her cat).
I don't know how to make her understand this... Sorry.

Maybe you could have a "basic standards of cleaniness" list that she has to live up to, or she has to pay rent / can't use the car / you don't make her meals / something else that would work?
I know it seems like a chore chart you'd use for a young kid, but she's not acting like a grown-up here...

I feel pretty ill today. I have diabetes and getting that upset can make me sick. I haven't checked my blood sugar today but I feel pretty awful physically. I have to do some things to get ready for tonight for my SD10 so I need to get into a different frame of mind.

Your responses have been great and I want to address them when I have time.

Thank you everyone...I am able to think now instead of just react.

Can you say something like "I am not well and I need your help" regarding her room. Could you use your loving relationship with her, to just ask her for help.

Minimum standards are what you should aim for. Anything that is a matter of hygiene should be included in this. I think you should definitely use the close the door policy when the minimum standard has been achieved.

Perhaps you should get a cleaner in every fortnight to clean the bathroom. Maybe she could contribute funds for that.

Never loose focus on the good things about her. That is number one.

I know all this is hard, because I have confronted these issues myself, on this very forum.

In the end, after advice from these wonderful people, I decided to use the "close the door policy". I realized that my relationship with her was far more important than my distress at her messy room.

In the end we paid for her to live at college, and now she lives in an apartment with two other uni students. Whenever I go to visit, her room is immaculate ! It's just amazing the transformation, she even complains about the other girls being messy!!

My DD is 21.

This is a mere blimp on the big picture of life, focus on the solution to the problem and not on your daughter's personality.

Take care you yourself.

Popi

I've read all the posts here and they all sound reasonable, both sides. I am going to try to think outside the box, to help you find a happy medium, and ask a few questions.

Pseudo's trick of 'whipping day' won't work for you because of your disability and the labor might further hurt you, yes?

Can you move your daughter to another room in the house where she can't hide her stuff as much. That may make it easier for her to bring dishes to the kitchen.

What have you negotiated with her? Negotiate, not dictate....sometimes when we 'own' something, it gets done. Carrot, stick - carrot is she gets rewards, stick is she gets priviledges taken away. If they are agreed upon ahead of time, with her having as much input as possible, would that work (why do I already know the answer)?

Sometimes its easier to clean up someone else's mess than your own. Can you find someone to match up with her (local college/students? Craig's list? A friend of yours?) where that person comes in and cleans for her, and she can do work that is distasteful for that other person, be it running errands, cleaning THEIR house, walking their dogs, etc. Drives my DH crazy - I have my own piles of mess in the house, but one time I mentioned that I wanted to help my friend with her even worse piles - LOL - that did NOT go over well. That kind of psychology might apply here.

Or you may just have to pay someone to come in and clean. You could offer her the money if she'll do it herself. But you are going to hurt yourself if you keep agonizing over this.

In Sylviatexas's words, 'I wish you the best'.

In retrospect, I don't think you should have to walk on eggshells around your daughter in fear of saying something that will make her mad and possibly estrange you from her life. But unfortunately, that is the way it is nowadays.

In my experience, I have learned that if a person wants to become offended, they will become offended no matter what you say. I didn't always take the best approach and my daughter would get mad at me at the drop of a hat. But I was raised in a "my house, my rules" environment. So, I was using that same mentality with my daughter. BIG MISTAKE!

Anyway, I like the "I need your help" approach. Maybe over a cup of coffee or something. Tell her how much you enjoy having her at home. I have learned that if you start a conversation with a compliment, people are more likely to listen and be receptive to the rest of the conversation.

I wish this was the approach I had taken with my own daughter instead of the "black & white" approach I had when she was still living at home.

Unfortunately, the days of "my house, my rules" are long gone. This generation of children have too many other options available. Once we no longer become of "value" to them, they can and will discard us.

I don't want another parent to ever experience the pain and hurt I have experienced. It is pure emotional hell, day and night. It never ends. So please, please approach this situation carefully and with much thought.

I hope this helps,
kmttsmom

I wanted to mention that I had cleaned the bathroom myself a couple of weeks ago...organized, scrubbed etc. She is a cosmetology student and brings home every kind of product known to mankind. That really needs to stop. I have purchased one of those automatic bath and shower cleaners for her also. I have one upstairs and find that they really do work well.

To show her support and to let her know that I feel this way about the entire family and the clutter I have started a total house purging program. I am getting rid of everything that is not used or has duplicates or someone has out grown. I will be giving it to an organization in town that gives things away for free and at this time of year this stuff should find a much needed home. We are talking games, puzzles, kitchen items, clothing, home decor and all. When DH and I married 3 years ago he and SD brought a huge amount of "stuff" with them. We have gotten rid of a lot but not enough yet. I just went through SD10's closet yesterday and reduced things by 1 large garbage full. She visits Ca. every summer and her moms family sends home hand me downs with her, whether she can wear them or not. Most of them are going to a friend. I am going to work with her on toys and clutter and try to cut back by 1/3. DS16's room is next. By doing this DD20 should not feel alone in her efforts.

I may have to do the cat box every few days myself. That I can't shut the door on. We will keep the cat until they both can move out. I could not get rid of her....sometimes I wish I could but I can't.

Your suggestions were great....loved the whipping day and may use that in the future. I can't afford and neither can she to hire a cleaning service at this time. I can see doing that in the future though for health reasons for myself. I have to pick and choose what I am going to do because I pay a physical price for everything. I hate not being able to do what I want to. I once worked side by side with men and did a 6 day a week physical job. I like to work hard and when I get started it is easy for me to over due and then I pay. I am paying right now for yard work done last week. Funny to now have diabetes also where I am suppose to keep moving and then having the sciatic nerve disorder where the only relief is to not move. God has a sick sense of humor some times.

I was amazed at how many of you had similar problems or the characteristics of being slobs yourself at one point in your lives. The confession of "....I was a teenage slob...." made me laugh. It's like confessing "...I was a teenage werewolf" or something! I agree that making empty threats is wrong and I don't want to do that any longer. It is a respect issue with me and I think I have been hurt because of the lack of respect that DD20 has shown me on this issue. She doesn't see it that way....someday she will.

My kids are everything to me. I love them dearly and for the most part we have an exceptional relationship. I have always talked honestly with them about life and have humbled myself to the point of tears when I have hurt them or when I have been wrong or mistaken about things. To me I think one of the greatest things that you can teach your kids is how to apologize when you are wrong and how to forgive others and yourself. I have told my DD that she is my hero....so smart, so funny, so quick witted and kind. I was not half the woman that she is when I was her age. I would do whatever I could to mend a hurt in our relationship. I was disowned by my mother for 3 years and it nearly destroyed me. I would not do that to any of my kids.

Thank you all again for helping me and talking about your experiences with me. Thank you for understanding also that I was not exaggerating about things. It was embarrassing for me to tell it all but I had to give the full picture so that you could understand my delima. Sorry this response was so long.

Believer - I totally agree with you !

You sound like you have sorted out your problem, get the children to help you, whenever you can.

I wish you well, you sound like you have a really special daughter.

What is an automatic shower and bath cleaner ? Sounds intriguing, I am sure I could use one of those !

Popi

I have a cleaning day every 2 weeks... top to bottom for the house, and laundry is done EVERY weekend and only other timesd if it is a very good reason...

My kids and husband (16, 14, and 9) are told on EVERY Friday evening during dinner to make sure any and all laundry and empty hangers they have are in the 'laundry" room (2nd floor bath) before I return home from work on Saturday afternoon. I start the laundry upon my return from work... occasionally... but not regularly, I will do a 'check in' when I get home... 'you all put you laundry in the laundry room right?' typically if they haven't when the hear the washer or dryer start going... they come flying with what wasn't brought down... :(

Picking up... Every other MONDAY I clean the house from top to bottom... again at dinner on the prior Friday I will add to the laundry 'reminder' that THIS coming Monday will be cleaning day... so 'make sure your rooms are ready'... they KNOW this means anything I find where it does NOT belong is fair game to never be seen again... this means under the beds, under the dressers, piled in a corner, on the closet floor (a favorite spot for the 9YO) I enter each room with trash bags first and do my own 'straightening up' when I start out my cleaning process... clothes get put in a bag of their own... to see if they get 'missed'... if not after about a month I wash them and send them to the shelter nearby... other 'belongings' get their own trash bag... and that gets put in the basement/garage... waiting for trash day... Thursday... if they haven't gone down to 'resurect' things by then, they go out.. only exceptions are certain things I am unwilling to just trash... for example, the ipod, american girl doll stuff... those get a bag of their own and they must see me to retrieve those... (locked in my spare room)... dishes/food... they are 'fined' for dishes or food as they are NOT suppose to have food or drink in their rooms... $1 per item I locate in their room... over a certain number of items... the fine is doubled...

They have 2+ days warning to get their acts together... interestingly enough they alway seem to get their acts together in those rooms by Monday morning... AFTER once or twice having things 'disappear' and then melting down over it...

Now I understand you are not physically able to do 'major' work... but it might be worth hiring someone to help you once or twice to get this under control... another child or friend of yours perhaps???

BTW... my 9YO DD and 14YO DS are by far the worst, and they compete for which is worse... to the point of whoever finishes first in their room helps the other... 16YO DD is OCD like her mother :) and typically does not take long at all to get her things together... actually some days I don't do much to 'straighten' up in her room at all... her bath on the other hand is a totally different story... :(

Does her boyfriend or other friends ever see her room/bathroom? Is there a way they could be invited to see her room (in advance of course to give her some notice) so that she would want to have a clean enough room to not be embarrassed?

The bathroom thing is gross but I have heard other parents complain of the exact thing. It sounds like she probably really doesn't notice the mess. Some people are so into other things that they just don't pick up on stuff. I'd nicely talk to her about it if you haven't already.

It is made by "scrubbing bubbles" and it has a cleaning solution bottle that fits into a battery operated dispenser. You push the bottom after you have showered and are out of the shower. It sprays the cleaning solution all around the shower. If you start out with a clean shower/tub it really keeps it that way. I was surprised but it works for us.

Her friends haven't been to the house for quite sometime and her boyfriend hasn't seen her room for a very long time either. I have a problem with involving any of her friends or her boyfriend in this. She would be so humiliated and I don't want to do that to her.

She is working on things and I will stay on her. I think what you said may have something to do with it. She can't see the forest for the trees. Like I said, I'm staying on her and she is trying. I told her last night when I said that she needed to empty the cat box and she said she would....just later....that she needed to stop whatever she was doing and do what I told her to right then. She waits, forgets and doesn't do it.

I've made the no food rule. She just does what she wants.

I have a new mantra at my place "Just Do It", (not wanting to draw attention to that brand of shoe).

I find when something needs doing, I think of reasons not to do it, to myself, and end up not achieving things. So, now, I say to myself "just do it", and that gets me motivated and focused. There is always something more interesting to do, and doing some chore is - lets face it- boring.

Perhaps you daughter can try this, she probably wants to be more focused on the bedroom issue.

Popi

"My kids are everything to me. I love them dearly and for the most part we have an exceptional relationship. I have always talked honestly with them about life and have humbled myself to the point of tears when I have hurt them or when I have been wrong or mistaken about things. To me I think one of the greatest things that you can teach your kids is how to apologize when you are wrong and how to forgive others and yourself. I have told my DD that she is my hero....so smart, so funny, so quick witted and kind. I was not half the woman that she is when I was her age. I would do whatever I could to mend a hurt in our relationship. I was disowned by my mother for 3 years and it nearly destroyed me. I would not do that to any of my kids."

Believer, I just had to tell you --- you sound like an awesome Mom!
I'm reading this thread carefully, as I'm dealing with the same issues. My DD is a total slob. She's 14 and her room's a pigsty. I'd love to just shut the door and ignore it, but we have to talk through there to reach the bathroom!

Glad things are better for you!

My mother left this life at the age of 68, I was 40. She was a proud, hard working woman who was never at a loss for words when it came to expressing her bitterness and anger towards someone. It was impossible for her to say "I'm sorry, you're wonderful, you are so good at that and so on." Almost as impossible for her to say "I love you." I have suffered so as an adult and since she died because she was not able to express her love for me. Her inability to be a loving mother to me and my brothers has driven me to not ever leave my kids/step kids with the impression that an action of theirs has anything to do with my love for them. As hurt as I still am by my chilhood and relationship with my mom I now understand that she was the one that suffered the most. Her life must have been very sad.

Being given the opportunity to impact a child's life with love and encouragement is one of the greatest blessings I have known in my life. To be a part of a miracle is something that I don't deserve and something that I don't take lightly.....I make a lot of mistakes but like the saying goes...."if you never make mistakes it is because you're not trying..."

Give her a hug !

in a few yrs she'll be out of your house so enjoy it while you can. but still i'd set some rules of acceptable behavior:

the dishes and silverware and glasses need to come back to the kitchen to get cleaned. the next day is ok, but why doesn't she eat with you and visit?
send your son to collect trash bag from the bathroom/bedroom/laundry room every week. expect them to be used.
close her bedroom door-- if her clothes are messy/dirty
its her problem.
a weekly/everytwo week bathroon cleaning is enough. but she needs to limit her samples she bringing home or share!!
and as you've noted having storage space helps.

diggerb

I'm tired of it. My home is my investment. I worked hard for it and nasty habits invite vermin into my home. It shows a lack of respect for my home and for herself. Who the heck does that? Get dressed every day, lip gloss, the works and lives in absolute filth.

Its time to go. She has a job and needs her own space to abuse. I'm too old for this crap. Humans are the only species who try to keep adult offspring around. This is not what God intended and it is time to shake up the nest.

Watch me...............

The biggest suggestion I have: -----make firm clear boundaries and guides BEFORE they move back in. And stick to them. Have very little flexibility at first. The first 3 weeks are the most critical. Then one can set a bit of relaxing at times so that the adult child will know the guides and patterns and understand exceptions. Shame but it becomes like treating them like children. But it must be done or the problems will happen. My daughters are now 21 and 25 and a story in itself. I commiserate from different and similar perspectives. My eldest daughter was in the slob habits. Some can be attributed to a very busy activity and school schedule. But much is a constant voicing that : " other kids are doing it, and even my husband (her father) turning on me saying that other kids (teen and adults)rooms are like that too." ?!! Yikes.

Problems to consider:

1. This day and age of overindulged children/teens, young adults.
2. Adult children staying home longer.
3. This generation having way more privileges and "things" in their rooms.
4. Some problems come from the constant drumming society/media (t.v. movies, magazines) and yes even teachers - telling parents that kids have more rights than parents. e.g. had one teacher tell me that my 11 year old daughter had rights to her own life and thoughts and did not have to listen to the parent? Um,??? no, the child has to listen to the teacher's concepts but - not the parent who is spending mega hours and money and energy on raising the child? Yes, true story. This went into other levels in our children�s activities.
6. Other issues arise when parents are not in agreement with each other how to parent. Which can get very bad when kids know how to "play" the overindulgent parent. And that parent then undermines the parent who is willing to WORK at raising children.

Oiy. One cannot make light of it. This generation for the most part has grown up to believe we OWE them a privileged (waited on ) lifestyle. Unfortunately, there are many obstacles to parent as we were once parented.

I do not ever advocate spanking to raise children. But the basics of gritting teeth while they pout when doing chores or balking is necessary when they are young. Or making chore lists and fun out of work - works too. It does not hurt a child (even a grown one) to learn how to care for THEMSELVES and do basics. But most children - teens usually require a parent working alongside them. Adults should not.

It does HURT a child/teen and eventually adult - to NOT learn to care for themselves and take on more responsibilities. Who likes housework or the knowledge that cleaning up is a never ending cycle?

But as Kathy, the last poster mentioned. We created a beautiful home. Worked since age 17 and renovated homes and then built our custom home in out late 40�s. Hard work almost daily in many respects. That is something that is GOOD for a person. WORK before PLAY was our motto and it should be for children too. We work, then play. Work, play, community work and so forth. Movies - do NOT happen with slob like rooms happening. But�my husband (when we were separated) allowed our girls to do whatever they wanted and did not enforce rules or guides. So eventually they played and no work was done.

So the first poster gets upset her daughter is at movies and her "LIFE" is actually totally obliterated. No wonder she is seeing red. What kind of life is that? A chaotic and wild life. (My eldest was like this many times).

I had hard issues with our eldest because my husband (her dad) undermined most of my efforts and that was and still is a huge issue in our lives. Yet this daughter was a great kid growing up. IT was a brief separation with her dad and I that caused the breakdown in my parenting authority. This daughter is angry and gone - angry at me her mom, not her dad. This would have been solved long ago, if he had not overnindulged her and made it seem as if she was hard done by to respect our home and her belongings in our home. Which was only one issue.

My youngest - I caught on time. And she is happy - I say what I mean, mean what I say and do it without being mean. She is grateful to live in a beautiful home and have meals, and be able to SAVE money for school and HER life. We only ask for our home and persons to be "respected". That is NOT too much to ask. And if anyone thinks it is? They have PROBlEMS - big time.

It does NOT serve them to let them be slobs as adults in ones home. It is SLOTH - which is a deadly sin if one thinks about it. Because it is negligent of ONESELF and belongings which leads to apathy and waste in ALL ways. Emotional, physical, intellectual, social and spiritual. Mild slobbishness, is not what I am talking about. The author of this thread has described a young woman who is in real chaos in all ways. But it can be worked out as she is attempting, but it will rear up again. At 20 years old? that means it is already pattern setting and becoming chronic. But another poster mentioned their is hope eventually.

But in ones own home, there are limits. It is very critical to set boundaries and communicate clearly when adult children come home for summer to work between University or when they move home for any reason after having set out on their own. We had no one handing us anything as kids or young adults and that can be a GOOD thing. We have respect and pride in our home and accomplishments. Many of these adult children who are NOT pulling their weight are NOT happy and the emotional and psychological problems are very telling of this generation.

Work, we NEED to work. IF we do not, we are NOT fulfilling all our basic needs as a human. Then a person is unfulfilled and searching and blaming others. Nothing replaces working for ourselves and stepping back and knowing we did it. Can we relax if things get messy or behind and not worry? of course. But don�t let it hang on too long. It is our home for peace, harmony and organization so one can find things, not waste and actually ENJOY ones home. So one knows the home does not have foodstuffs or messes that could cause problems.

We (the obstacles I mentioned above) - this society is taking AWAY - that need and feeling of satisfaction for our younger generation. It is NOT the parents obligation to be the KEEPERS of our children when they are adults. But that is exactly the expectation it seems of our grown children. When we don�t do it? They stomp, yell, get angry or shut us out of their lives? That is 2 year old behaviour and blackmail in place of genuine love we are providing.

My mom told us kids when we left, don�t come back home to live - but we could "visit" - for the day or so. (She had 7 children - I left at age 17). That is NOT a bad thing at times. It forces kids to GROW up.

I am not saying things are swimmingly for me, but my University student daughter who lives with us for 4 months a year - is great. The eldest? Well, she lives far away, but is still very angry with me, for other reasons in addition to my rule of not allowing disharmony/disrespect and my home to be destroyed. (Something similar to original posters daughter was occurring).

Here is a thought: If we do things with resentment - it is NOT counted for our soul or well being, nor for our childrens well being. So if we grudge through things that are intolerable? We are doing no favour for us or them.

Collaboration only goes so far when it is ONES own home and the adult children are now in effect "guests" but family guests. I hope all the best to you all.