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PAS Syndrome

Posted by silversword (My Page) on
Wed, Oct 1, 08 at 14:20

Someone mentioned PAS Syndrome, so I looked it up to see what it is.

This is the definition of PAS as described by R.A. Gardner who discovered the syndrome and has become an expert in dealing with the issue.Gardner's definition of PAS is:

"The parental alienation syndrome (PAS) is a disorder that arises primarily in the context of child-custody disputes. Its primary manifestation is the child's campaign of denigration against a parent, a campaign that has no justification. It results from the combination of a programming (brainwashing) parent's indoctrinations and the child's own contributions to the vilification of the target parent."(Excerpted from: Gardner, R.A. (1998). The Parental Alienation Syndrome, Second Edition, Cresskill, NJ: Creative Therapeutics, Inc.)

Basically, this means that through verbal and non verbal thoughts, actions and mannerisms, a child is emotionally abused (brainwashed) into thinking the other parent is the enemy. This ranges from bad mouthing the other parent infront of the children, to withholding visits, to pre-arranging the activities for the children while visiting with the other parent.

http://www.paskids.com/

I don't know very much about it, but this is what my mom used to do with my dad. It really is sad how children get in the middle.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: PAS Syndrome

It's also pretty sad how some people refer to other people as mexican dogs. I'm still wondering about that comment. Do you care to elaborate?


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RE: PAS Syndrome

A good friend of mine had this happen to him. He had custody and then custody got transferred to his ex-wife after she cleaned up her act. She had basically abandoned the kids (after cheating on her husband, our friend) and after getting custody she set out to systematically eliminate our friend from the children's lives. It got very, very ugly. He now has no contact with the children.

Many years ago I dated a guy who was recently divorced and something similar happened to him. While he was in the military, away on deployment, his wife moved out of their on base housing without even telling him (he learned when he got back from a deployment, can you imagine?). She moved back to her home state and they got divorced. They agreed she would have custody (the child was young) and he would have visitation where he would go to her home state until the child was a certain age. She then married a former boyfriend very soon after the divorce. The custody arrangement wasn't worth the paper it was written on. She decided her new husband should be the child's father (not just step father). She would disappear with the kid when he showed up for court ordered visitation (he had to fly there). She wouldn't answer the phone when he called to speak to his child. The court (the court in her home state) wouldn't do anything. He eventually gave up his parental rights and her new husband adopted the child. He couldn't take it anymore.

Both of them spent small fortunes fighting to enforce the visitation orders and got nowhere.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

And I don't think that PAS is necessarily one parent against another, although I didn't read the link provided. Just from the explanation, I feel like this is what my DD's adult friend has done. She bad mouths DH and I to DD. Even after going to court, and the woman being found guilty of contribution to the delinquency of a minor, DD still has contact with her. I'm just trying to find proof.

It's also pretty sad how some people refer to other people as mexican dogs.
Where did that come from? I must have missed something.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

It's also pretty sad how some people refer to other people as mexican dogs.
Where did that come from? I must have missed something.

This is referring to another thread that the OP made a comment regarding a little snappy mexican dog. I assume referring to my post and me personally but I'm not sure. I was trying to clarify that.

Let's put it another way. It's pretty sad when people resort to personal insults and calling people narrow minded just because someone doesn't see things the way they do. It's been my experience that if you agree with everyone that is okay. But dare to be different and have a unique perspective on things and you will be insulted, told you don't know what you are talking about, get snide immature remarks referring to your personality the same as a dog's and of course ostracized and ignored.

Keep acting like a two year old and hiding behind your computer. I've had my fill of this boring immature dialogue. Good luck and don't complain too much. It's not good for your health. Either is sticking around here to be insulted.

On a side note. I don't necessarily agree with what mom2emall said regarding downgrading class on the other thread but part of what she said does make sense. Usually in life you would think you would want to improve your life and not go backwards. If you are white and have been discriminated against by those of Spanish or Mexican descent then why on earth would you want to move into that kind of neighborhood? Sorry, but I think that is just setting yourself up for trouble. And you can call me a snob if you want but if someone says "Little Mexico" to me the image I get is a lower class gang ridden neighborhood. You may not like that but it is the truth and that is exactly how it sounds. In my city they have Little Italy and Chinatown and Little Vietnam and those areas are poorer and are crime and gang ridden.

You are now free to lash out at me and call me any dog breed you want including head b**ch if it makes you feel better about yourself.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

mommybunny - okay, but this is a different thread.


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RE: 'Mexican Dogs'

Posted by mommybunny (My Page) on Wed, Oct 1, 08 at 16:05

"It's also pretty sad how some people refer to other people as mexican dogs. I'm still wondering about that comment. Do you care to elaborate?"

Mommybunny, I looked and looked for where I posted that to get my exact quote and the context but I can't find it. I'm sorry you thought it was directed toward you. What I remember is someone said something about how you can't train a chihuahua to be a guard dog, the worst thing they will do is bite your ankles and it doesn't matter if you have boots on. What I was saying (and obviously my humor didn't come across very well!) was that people (not you personally) were on the attack. I think it was something like "they're releasing the chihuahua's, ladies put your boots on".

I was trying to be funny. It wasn't, because you got hurt. It wasn't directed to anyone in particular. I'm sorry if I hurt yours or anyone's feelings. I'm not here to hurt anyone, I'm just trying to discuss like everyone else.

Why didn't you say something there?


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Do You Like Mexican Dogs?

Hello silversword:

I did make a post referring to this on the estranged post as follows:

* Posted by mommybunny (My Page) on
Tue, Sep 30, 08 at 16:58

There seems to be a post missing or else the last two don't make any sense at all.

I presume that someone didn't like what I said, again. Oh, well. Some of you guys need to grow up and look at yourselves. If you don't like someone's opinion then you don't have to accept it but making false accusations is just plain sick.

It's not uncommon for people on message boards to make up stories and play mind games with people. Guess they have nothing better to do.

The mexican dog post seemed to be out of context and since it was after my comments it would seem that it was referring to me. It is kind of obvious to me that some people need to get upfront and personally insulting when someone doesn't agree with them.

I do give you credit for responding regarding the mexican dog comment. But, I still would be more the poodle type in my opinion. And yes, some people probably do attack if they feel singled out and antagonized because someone doesn't agree with them and is not able to agree to disagree.

Not everyone agrees and thinks the same. Not everyone likes everyone. Just like dogs there are all types of people and some of them just don't mix. It probably would be best for people not to falsely accuse people and personally insult them just because they don't agree.

You've answered my question and I consider this issue closed.

Thank you,

mommybunny


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RE: Anything but PAS Syndrome

Mommybunny, you could have at least given me the chance to explain before assuming that I was doing these things to you: "insulted, told you don't know what you are talking about, get snide immature remarks referring to your personality the same as a dog's and of course ostracized and ignored".

I didnt call you a dog, nor did I imply your personality was that of a dog. I never said you dont know what you are talking about. I disagree with some of your statements sometimes. Its a forum. Its for discussion. Would you care to discuss this further, or would you like to continue to make assumptions and lash out?

You wrote "Usually in life you would think you would want to improve your life and not go backwards. If you are white and have been discriminated against by those of Spanish or Mexican descent then why on earth would you want to move into that kind of neighborhood? Sorry, but I think that is just setting yourself up for trouble. "

I dont think I am going backward. And I have never been discriminated against by Mexicans, nor have I said I have. When I was growing up there were very few Mexicans in the islands. My home here is very nice, and I live in a nice neighborhood, which I have stated numerous times. And what kind of neighborhood are you referring to when you say "that kind"? Because my town is majority Mexican you feel free to assume my housing is sub-standard and there are gangs running around rampant and violence in the streets?

"And you can call me a snob if you want but if someone says "Little Mexico" to me the image I get is a lower class gang ridden neighborhood. You may not like that but it is the truth and that is exactly how it sounds. In my city they have Little Italy and Chinatown and Little Vietnam and those areas are poorer and are crime and gang ridden."

That doesn't sound snobbish, that sounds racist to me. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.

Did you know that Chicago, the third largest city in the U.S. is home to the second-largest Mexican population in the U.S.? That they call themselves "Little Mexico" for the simple reason that THERE ARE A LOT OF MEXICANS IN THEIR POPULATION. Not because Chicago is lower class or gang ridden, which is beside the point.

This was my point in bringing up the topic of the racial majority in my town, although I have said it several times, it doesnt seem to be getting heard. Someone made a comment about my daughter playing with the right people and not the little special needs boy with the alcoholic parents next door or else she would get fleas. (I may be combining a few statements from a few different people.) I said that sticking with ones own brings up a whole different topic, that I want my daughter to be able to play with a variety of people and get to know differences, thats why I chose to live among the majority in my town rather than segregating myself into a white ghetto (and in case you get offended about that word, ghetto means a portion of a city in which the minorities live). Calling my town "Little Mexico" may bring those images to your mind, but to me meant nothing of the sort.

California was a part of Mexico until 1846, just over 150 years ago. Its the third largest state, with the highest population and the largest minority population in the U.S. Of the Mexican immigrants in the U.S. 44% of them are in California and 25% of the population is Mexican. It has one of the ten largest economies in the world. Forget my town being "Little Mexico"-Southern California is "Little Mexico". Other towns also call themselves "Little Mexico" without the any negative connotations, such as Newport, Kentucky in the 1940s and Ontario, California in the 1980s due to the high population of Hispanic/Latin American immigrants.

Regarding your statement "It's also pretty sad how some people refer to other people as mexican dogs."

If I were to call you a dog, would it be more offensive if it were of Mexican origin? Chihuahuas are one of the oldest dog breeds, are extremely devoted, excellent companions and their temperament and personality is considered to be clever, sweet, loveable, swift, graceful, and alert. Or is it that theyre from Mexico that bothers you?

"You are now free to lash out at me and call me any dog breed you want including head b**ch if it makes you feel better about yourself."

To that, Ill just repeat your words back to you: "Keep acting like a two year old"


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RE: How to explain...

Mommybunny,
I don't know if there's a way to post directly under the post you mean to comment on, or if the way I have been doing it is the only way. I click "post a reply" and my post goes to the bottom of the pile, so sometimes my post doesnt go directly under the one Im referring to. Please let me know if Im doing this wrong.

Below is what I said, and it was because there was so much "ankle biting" going on. Not by you in particular, but as Straycat said "emotions are running at full speed" and I noticed people were getting snippy. I meant it as humor. I see it was anything but humorous to you, because you took it personally. For that, I'm sorry.

This is the origin of my Chihuahua comment:

Bloobird wrote:
"You can teach any dog to attack and act aggressively, it's just some are going to be more effective at it than others. (I mean, a Chihuahua can be a non-stop, vicious little fiend, but if you're wearing boots, who cares?)"

I thought that was funny, so I wrote:
"(I mean, a Chihuahua can be a non-stop, vicious little fiend, but if you're wearing boots, who cares?) Put your boots on ladies, they've released the Chihuahuas! :)"

THEN, IN REFERENCE TO AN EXCHANGE BETWEEN THREE OTHER PEOPLE I WROTE:
"Am I the only one who's confused? What is this all about?" and then I posted the conversations I was confused by.

Posted by no1name (My Page) on Fri, Aug 29, 08 at 18:03
Straycat, don't let yourself fall prey to the gallimaufry of certain "participants." Ignore them. ("Gallimaufry" from Medieval Dutch maffelen, "to open one's mouth wide.")

Posted by bloobird (My Page) on Fri, Aug 29, 08 at 20:47
Oh look; a new userID. It just makes me get all fuzzy inside when when I get a chance to learn a new vocabulary word. Here's a new word for you: disapprobation. I won't spoil your fun by giving you the definition, but I will use it in a sentance. "I have nothing but disapprobation for so called "adults" who hide behind multiple user IDs like a nerdy 8th grader in computer science class." (Don't you think it's about time to grow up and knock it off?)

Posted by bobosfriend (My Page) on Sat, Aug 30, 08 at 10:55
Ah, bloobird, you fell for that one even better than we had hoped. Now we all know who has appointed herself the internet police. You see, folks, when someone responds to one of her posts in a fashion she does not care for, she gets them banned.

Posted by bloobird (My Page) on Sun, Aug 31, 08 at 1:06
Hey, if the shoe fits, wear it Cinderella. I didn't even have to bother looking anything up, as the snarky hit and run style of the uh, "newest" poster was such a good match for someone else already known for their multiple IDs. (But thanks anyway for confirming a lucky guess.) FWIW, believe me when I tell you, not only am I not the "internet police", I have no authority or position that enables me to have anyone "banned" from this or any other site. I'm no expert in these things, but you know, if someone really is finding his or her self "banned" from THS or GW, rather than trying to blame others, they might want to look at changing their behaviour. I'm just sayin'..."

I think Bloobird was saying that someone (NoName1) has assumed a new identity and has multiple user IDs, but Im not sure. And then I think Bobosfriend was saying that Bloobird was just reacting because NoName didnt like her post. And I think Bloobird responded that its someone known for multiple IDs. This had absolutely nothing to do with you.

Now that I read further down I see that you made two references to it:

First: "There seems to be a post missing or else the last two don't make any sense at all. I presume that someone didn't like what I said, again. Oh, well. Some of you guys need to grow up and look at yourselves. If you don't like someone's opinion then you don't have to accept it but making false accusations is just plain sick. It's not uncommon for people on message boards to make up stories and play mind games with people. Guess they have nothing better to do."

I dont know if you were referring to me, but I wasnt making any accusations, making up stories, or playing mind games. Again, why didnt you ask me what I meant instead of making little snarky comments?

Second: "This is just my opinion and anyone is free to disagree if they choose but there is no need for immature posts referring to small mexican dogs. If I were really a dog of which I'm not I would choose to be a poodle since they are intelligent and dignified."

Ok, well, I think its silly to anthropomorphize dogs at all but being a "poodle" is an insult used to say someone is obediently or passively following the lead of others, ie a "lap dog". Perhaps if I said that someone would take offense too.

Since the modern breed of poodles came from France, and there is so much Franco-phobia around today, should I be making reference to "French dogs" instead of writing Poodle? In other words, why cant you write Chihuahua? Is it the "dog" reference or is it the "Mexican" you take offense to?


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RE: PAS Syndrome

Moonie,
I didn't think of it like this, but you're right!

"And I don't think that PAS is necessarily one parent against another"

I have seen this happen as well. It must be really hard to deal with your individual situation because this is probably an older, "cooler" person than your DD and she must look up to them. It's hard to see sometimes, especially as a teenager, that your parents really have your best interests at heart and aren't just trying to keep you away from your "good friend".

I remember my mom telling me one of my friends wasn't a nice girl, and I didn't believe her. In retrospect, she was right.

I only hope this girl removes her tentacles from your daughter before more damage is done.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

Silversword two left to go and hopefully no more.

You Said: I didnt call you a dog, nor did I imply your personality was that of a dog.

I already got that. Next?

You Said: Because my town is majority Mexican you feel free to assume my housing is sub-standard and there are gangs running around rampant and violence in the streets?

You were the one that referred to it as Little Mexico not me. That is the impression I received based on what you said. I never said your housing was sub-standard or that your neighborhood is full of gangs and that you are ducking bullets. You said that. I only made reference to the impression regarding the Little Mexico comment. Little Mexico obviously doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

You Said: That doesn't sound snobbish, that sounds racist to me. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race.

Totally b.s. I am not racist nor were my comments racist. I take great offense at this false accusation. The three ethnic neighborhoods I was referring to, namely Little Italy, Chinatown and Little Vietnam are more centrally located. It is the ethnic groups that for whatever reason decided to live in these areas. That is not to say that these same ethnic groups don't also live in other areas of the City and outlying areas but I'm only referring to these three specific groups of people.

Since these groups are living closer to the City's core there is more of a crime rate and there are also more social problems. The areas are more poor economically and there are ethnic gangs in these neighborhoods. That is the reason the crime rate is higher. How on earth you would interpret that as racist is beyond me. I was just stating the reality of the situation.

I never said that any one race is superior to another race or that one race has more rights than another. That to me is the true definition of racism. It is a lot more than just attributing certain characteristics to certain races of which I did not do either.

You Said: If I were to call you a dog, would it be more offensive if it were of Mexican origin?

No it would not. I don't like being referred to as a dog period. But if you must I would prefer to be called a poodle like I explained to you before.

You Said: Chihuahuas are one of the oldest dog breeds, are extremely devoted, excellent companions and their temperament and personality is considered to be clever, sweet, loveable, swift, graceful, and alert. Or is it that theyre from Mexico that bothers you?

I don't like that breed of dog due to their personality and tempermant. I prefer the poodle personality, intelligence and tempermant. I find the other dog snappy and slightly vicious. No, again it doesn't bother me that they are from Mexico. Does it bother you? The only reason that I referred to it as the Mexican dog is because I have trouble pronouncing that name let alone spelling it without looking it up in a dictionary. That is the only reason I referred to the dog as the Mexican dog. No racist comment was either implied or meant by that comment.

You Said: To that, Ill just repeat your words back to you: "Keep acting like a two year old"

Okay, if you say so. Sounds like fun to me. It's not good to take life too seriously.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

Silversword:

You Said: This is the origin of my Chihuahua comment:

Bloobird wrote:
"You can teach any dog to attack and act aggressively, it's just some are going to be more effective at it than others. (I mean, a Chihuahua can be a non-stop, vicious little fiend, but if you're wearing boots, who cares?)"

I thought that was funny, so I wrote:
"(I mean, a Chihuahua can be a non-stop, vicious little fiend, but if you're wearing boots, who cares?) Put your boots on ladies, they've released the Chihuahuas! :)"

I got that. But who is the dog?

You Said: "Am I the only one who's confused? What is this all about?" and then I posted the conversations I was confused by.

I think Bloobird was saying that someone (NoName1) has assumed a new identity and has multiple user IDs, but Im not sure. And then I think Bobosfriend was saying that Bloobird was just reacting because NoName didnt like her post. And I think Bloobird responded that its someone known for multiple IDs. This had absolutely nothing to do with you.

Kind of gives you a headache doesn't it. Probably some internet board trolls that have nothing better to do. Not uncommon on message boards considering users are basically anonymous. It's called playing mind games and making entertainment at someone else's expense. Kind of sick isn't it?

You Said: Now that I read further down I see that you made two references to it:

First: "There seems to be a post missing or else the last two don't make any sense at all. I presume that someone didn't like what I said, again. Oh, well. Some of you guys need to grow up and look at yourselves. If you don't like someone's opinion then you don't have to accept it but making false accusations is just plain sick. It's not uncommon for people on message boards to make up stories and play mind games with people. Guess they have nothing better to do."

I dont know if you were referring to me, but I wasnt making any accusations, making up stories, or playing mind games. Again, why didnt you ask me what I meant instead of making little snarky comments?

My name's not snarky. And no, I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to whomever has nothing better to do and finds it entertaining to make up stuff and play mind games at the expense of someone else.

You Said: Ok, well, I think its silly to anthropomorphize dogs at all but being a "poodle" is an insult used to say someone is obediently or passively following the lead of others, ie a "lap dog". Perhaps if I said that someone would take offense too.

They probably would if they didn't like poodles. But I don't see it that way. I happen to like poodles and I have a miniature poodle that is simply adorable and loyal. She is not obedient except to the family members and certainly not passive. I also have a Shitzu Poodle cross but that dog is more outgoing and friendly than my pure poodle. Nevertheless I like my poodle and think they are highly sensitive and intelligent dogs.

You Said: Since the modern breed of poodles came from France, and there is so much Franco-phobia around today, should I be making reference to "French dogs" instead of writing Poodle?

I have no idea of what you are talking about here. And actually the poodle is Russian in origin not French. But of course this could also be up for debate. I have no trouble spelling poodle so I don't need to write French dogs and since they aren't originally from France I wouldn't write French dogs anyways.

You Said: In other words, why cant you write Chihuahua? Is it the "dog" reference or is it the "Mexican" you take offense to?

The reason I didn't write it is because I have trouble pronouncing that name let alone spelling it. But I believe I already stated that somewhere else. I take no offense to the Mexican reference of this particular breed of dog since that is where it originated from.

I'm glad this is finally over. I don't think I will be entertaining your posts in the future. Too much work for much too little reward.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

Mommybunny, a "snark" is a "snide remark". I feel that your hijacking this post with your snide remarks was snarky. Not your name.

I'm relieved you feel this is finally over and you will no longer be responding my posts.

Thank you for sharing your opinions and values, this has been a good experience for me.


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RE: PAS Syndrome

Sirens?


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