Garden60, I want you to know that I am copying your letter to forward to my hubby's email! He just has to read this for himself, because it is so like my situation with our dil that it's surreal. My dil wasn't quite as nasty as yours, but she was right up there, nearly neck and neck. Yes, it is the groom's parents who get to pick the place for the rehearsal dinner as well as any plans for it. Yet, my dil also took that small part I had to play away from me, on the sly! She lied to me, & my son, and of course he bought it as he buys every single thing she tells him. It's as if he is hypnotized....or more accurately, brainwashed! It is going to be a tough month for you! However, with your younger sons b-day now also, I would focus all your attention on him. I can't believe the way your son snubbed his brother at the wedding! My son also couldn't choose my youngest son to be his only best man, so he chose two best men! I had never heard of this, and it infuriated me that my son would not just have his younger brother be his only bestman, which is certainly usually the case. I know it was dil. In fact my son told me that dil told him that many grooms choose two best men! This is when I expressed surprise about him doing this. We had to tell our son hours before the wedding that his brother should at least be the first down the isle, and not his best friend. Imagine that we had to tell him to do that?!! At least he listened to us on that one. I'm surprised dil didn't step in and put her foot down that it wasn't going to be that way. My son still had part of his brain in his possession at that time. The similarities between our two sons is hard to believe! I know I've said this over and over again, but I just can't get over it. There are many similarities with all of our stories to be sure, but ours is the same sex, with a younger brother, a NPD dil, etc. I imagine many of the children being talked about on this forum are NPDs too, or else their mates are. They can also have a mental illness such as Ginny's daughter. Garden60, as far as your husband goes, here are my thoughts. I've never heard carrots or raw vegetables are not good for them! They are some of the best things they can eat, and especially in between meals since the carbohydrates are so low! Fruit has a higher carbohydrate than most veggies, so that will need to be worked into the diet, unless of course he is having a low blood sugar. If he's having a low blood sugar, that is an excellent time to have a small glass of juice followed up by a piece of fresh fruit. Fruits have a wide range of variation regarding carbohydrate too. For instance, Strawberries are very low in carbs and high in fiber. As a fruit exchange, one can have lots more strawberries than say grapes. I'd be happy to share my knowledge with you if you'd like. I've been doing this for over 20 years and know it all too well. I just wrote a person today giving them information and advice on how to handle a newly diagnosed little girl. I volunteer to do this since I remember all to well how difficult it was when our baby was diagnosed. It is my chance to help others. A cheese stick or beef stick is certainly not a bad choice as long as it is not the snack he has every time. The biggest reason behind either of those two snack would be the fat and salt content. Protein has a very small effect on the blood sugar since it is digested very slowly, thus avoiding any spikes. In fact, when my son was very little, we would always give him a fairly high protein snack to make it through the night since it lasted so much longer than anything else. He still does this after he has worked out, or just been overly active. With all the low fat and low sodium items out there, I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't get the beef sticks with less sodium. Even if you don't, one beef stick is certainly low enough not to worry about it, it's only if he intends on sitting down and eating a handful or more that would cause concern. I know you can get low fat cheese, which would eliminate at least some of the problem. Is your husband on insulin, or just diet? If he's on insulin, there are many things I can recommend to help his numbers improve. If he is on diet only (or using pills that boost the amount of insulin his pancreas makes,) then I can still give advice, however it's much harder making your numbers good with diet alone. When he does have higher readings, tell him to drink plenty of water since this help flush the glucose out of his system quicker. Even modest exercise makes a huge difference, such as a stroll right after dinner, or leisurely bike ride. Let me know some of the details and I'll be happy to give more advice. If you'd like, you could post your email and I will send you the advice that way. I do understand if you don't want to post it at this forum though. The only reason I don't want to post mine is that I'm afraid that my son would find this site by doing a search for my yahoo address. This is exactly how I found out all the information about him, and I certainly don't want him reading anything I write here. If you have an email account that is less used, such as google mail, that would be a better choice. That's entirely up to you though. Hang in there with the difficult month you have. I think your making the right choice with the b-day card. From what I've read on this site, it doesn't seem to matter how many cards, phone calls, or other methods of communication we make, they are all rejected, ignored or not acknoweldged. anniebal

Lostmama, I completely agree with garden60! Don't call, write, etc. since he won't reply and it will jab that knife down even deeper into the wound. I reached out 3-4 times to my son, and yet he told me he wanted no contact, nothing. Finally in February I quit trying. I'm still pretty miserable, but I am getting better. I'm very involved in my younger sons life right now, which helps a great deal. I have my garden and pond to attend to regularly, which is a great stress reliever. I haven't posted on hear yet that I have heard from my son. My son called me yesterday, and left a message. I truly didn't think he would respond to my request for him to call us when he was back in the country (in the birthday card I sent him, which was only sent because he did send me a mother's day card stating 'we could now call him.') I figured that after I put the ball back in his court to call us, that he would make us wait a few weeks to show us who is boss. Anyway, he called and left a message on our house phone as I was busy in the yard. I called him back and got his v mail (on his cell phone, not home!) My son called relatively soon after my message. We had a cordial, but awkward conversation. My son was pleasant, and asked about his dad's skin cancer. I was very low key, sounding laid back, happy to hear from him, but not bubbling over. We talked about his upcoming trip to Italy, his trip to Mexico for his job, about a visit to the cardiologist for high blood pressure (gee, I wonder why?)whether he got my card for his b-day, etc. He thanked me for the b-day card. I told him about my garden and pond, suggested he have a home tester for his blood pressure (even though all his tests came out normal, and his blood pressure has gone back down.) I could hear my dil in the background putting dishes away, or at least I believe it was her since we know men can't multi task :) My son told me after about 10 minutes that he should get going so he could help his wife with dinner. I said ok, and told him I loved him. This is where it got interesting. There was a distinct hesitation before he responded that he loved me too. At first I thought I was being paranoid thinking that he didn't want to tell me he loved me in front of my dil, but now I know that that is what had to be true. Two people I've told that to (my hubby and a very good friend,) both stated that that is why he hesitated, even before I could tell them what my opinion was. So what, this girl won't allow him to say he loves me in front of her? Boy if that's the case, I bet he caught all heck once he hung up the phone. I guess i have to be happy that he felt he needed to say it back to me, regardless of whether she was there or not. Maybe that's a positive sign of things to come.....eventually! I didn't say anything to him regarding calling again, when I'd see him, nothing, zilch, zero!! He didn't say anything to me in that regard either. I also let him wonder whether his dad was home and not talking to him, or that his dad was out of town on business. I felt that if he wanted to know where his dad was, he should ask. Let him think his dad doesn't want to talk to him, afterall, he has it coming. I know that sounds mean, but I've reached a point that he gets what he gives, and he has given so much hurt in the last 4 years that I am amazed I've survived. I've finally reached a point where I don't expect to see him. It's truly amazing. I go out to do my thing outside, and some days I'm not even thinking of him until later in the day. This is a huge improvement. I no longer expect him to walk up behind me, put his arm on my shoulder and tell me how much he loves me, and how wrong he has been. I guess I tired of that fantasy...it just hurt too much knowing it would never happen. Lostmama, Garden60 and sarahsmom, we all have major head cases as dil's that have poisoned our sons minds with lies and emotional abuse. It is so hurtful to think that the boys we loved could reach a point where they could be turned against us, but I guess we can't ever underestimate the power of evil women over nice guys. What's that old saying, 'nice guys finish last.' I really don't believe that, but I do think there is a lot to be said for it's meaning, all the same. I do think we may have our sons back someday, in a way that is similar to what they once were. It is going to be a long time coming, but something's gotta give at some point. Boys take a long time to really become men, and some much longer then others. Our boys found love, and think that the only way to keep it is by obeying their girls every demand. I think most will reach a point that they tire of having to behave exactly how she tells them to. I only wish that time was sooner, then later. Still, I do have a smidgen of hope now. However, I have no delusions that my dil will be any different. My husband and I have already made an agreement that we will never be mistreated by her/them again. If they can't love and accept us for who we are, then they can be out of our lives. We are not bad, awful people. We raised our kids with nothing but love, support, kindness and being there. We don't deserve the over dramatization of every single thing we do or say. I will be me, and my husband will be himself, and if we say something that she finds offense with, so be it. I'm done groveling. I swear I will never be taken advantage like that ever again. We've agreed to keep each other in check in case one of us slips up. Afterall, we are nice people, we do not think the way our dil does, so it would be easy to slip up. I'm so tired of caring right now, I have truly reached a point where I can say good riddens (at least for the most part.) anniebal

WOW- what to hear what the "other side" says about us on this side? It's amazing how someone who states we should welcome their advice (even though they are not and have never) been in our shoes speaks about our posts... Over in the "singles" section is a place where adult children estranged from their parents has someone who posts here and there actively making fun of our heart felt emotions. I was amazed. One person said "they say they (us) didn't do anything wrong unless they loved to much" and goes on -how ridiculous we are to "think that." I really do not understand how people post deliberate painful words-taken out of context and then expect people to listen to their "words of advice." Or to take our post once again out of context and subject them to ridicule... This is not high school for me-a competition- or certainly a way to expose something so precious to me-to anyone's hateful remarks. Many of us are women who are hurting and personally I just can't imagine someone would posts our remarks in such a way to inflict more pain upon us...Wow- I guess I'm through- That is just too much for me. I'm hope you all have a good Christmas-take care everyone and Thank you for all the support you have so freely given. I really appreciate your kind words, and believe me I've hung on to them all. stray

Hi to everyone, I found this forum with google and I can just say I am so happy to have found a place where I feel less alone... I relare to everyone, especially to sage121 as I'm too in the process of estrangement from my parents and only brother after 32 years of denial that anything was wrong of out of place... when I first confronted them I felt like the ground was opening beneath to swallow me, but after that and a long work on myself, I am finally beginning to enjoy life as I deserve... I wanted to cite this sentence from silver: "I can forgive someone, meaning that I no longer hold something against them. Forgiving them, doesn't mean I trust them. Trust needs to be earned. A simple "I'm sorry" doesn't rebuild trust after years of emotional and sometimes physical abuse. Especially, when their bad behavior continues after they have said they are sorry." that is expecially true. at first you are so angry, also because you're disappointed that yours are not the perfect parents, but just human persons with their defects. then you come to terms with their humanity, and start to go on with your life; but this doesn't mean that you trust them back: no matter they said they're sorry and want to make amends, when all they believe is that they have done their best and you're just being difficult about silly things... and they go on as before. they keep telling that mine was not an abusive family and for most part it's true, they didnt beat me, or come home drunk, but I remember-and this is the first time I talk about this ever to anyone-that a friend of my brother who's 5 years older than me use to be abusive of me from 6 to 10 years old, touching me and making me touch him... my mother became aware of that and instead of kicking the boy out, spoke to me telling that "I had to stop letting him do those things or she would be forced to tell dad and he would make him leave"...I was 6 or 7, and had no means to make him stop... but he was best buddy with my brother who of course is parents' pet, and at the time I was just so focused on getting the love of my big bro' that for years I endured his abuse in secret for fear of him being kicked out and my brother put the blame on me. I felt, god, still feel so dirty and ashamed of this that I've never told anyone, but that was just a big situation in which my parents (especially my mom) refused to side up with me, leaving me with the weight of doing myself what should have been their job, protect me. my brother, on the other hand, has always been the sicky mommy's boy, so even through his adulthood, they've felt their responsibility to shelter him from any thing bad... while I was the tough one who could do by herself, and they take for granted every thing that I accomplish. which they say, is because they have great esteem in my abilities, and I say, ok it's flattering, but hey, your're my parents, it would be nice to have a little cheering from you from time to time. moreover, I choose academic research while he's in industry, so he has a fairly easier life than mine: a permanent, secure job, a house, a wife in the same condition while on the other hand, I have a fellowship which last a year, my partner has a temporary job and obviously we are in a rented house 'cause we can't afford to buy one... but HE is the poor one, the one who needs their help, while we're tough and somehow, we'll manage.... they also started to take big life (and economic) decisions which favoured him (for example, they're having a baby soon-first grandchild) and they're deciding to sell everything at home to buy a house to be near to him, in case he needs any help with the baby... leaving me by myself, for the future too. and I can bet that once they are old they will "offer" (cause obviosly, they say it's them who offer, not the golden boy who asks) to move in bro's small house, leaving them the big hose with the garden... I tried to talk them out of this madness, but they refuse to think that it's wrong, keep saying they would do the same for me, if I were in his shoes... but I know it's just b*****it. we talked about is some time ago (as they're getting older and live some time from here) telling them 'why dont you come to live closer?' (also to try being the perfect little girl and please them) and they kept stalling the decision to look for houses, and then, weeks after my bro told them they're expecting, they merrily announced they were making plans to sell their house and they were looking at new ones near him.... I feel so bad, angry, frustrated, disillusioned...guilty when they call me and seem so sad, and then angry again with myself for feeling guilty.... my partner too is involved as they treated him with poor respect in some occasions (and he doen't want anything to do with them) and every time they keep saying that they've done nothing wrong... I've been in this trap for years, until I realized that I had started to hurt him in order to avoid confronting my parents as it would leed to their disappointment in me, and because I refused to aknowledge the truth of my dysfunctional family... I also felt so ashamed of this situation (of me barely talking to them)....also because here (I'm italian) it is almost a public disgrace not to feel bound to one's family, something people should never know about. I am trying to keep my head up but it's hard. it's good to know that I'm not alone... big hug to everyone!