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I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Posted by pinkpeonies (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 21, 08 at 21:29

MIL emailed inviting us to their cabin in July. They get home on the 3rd after being away for close to a month. Then they will leave that day again and go up to their house.

We are not going because there were previous plans. We are hosting a party.

But, I am still just so aggravated that MIL and FIL are acting like nothing happened and that we would gladly pack us, a small baby and spend the entire weekend with them.

I need to let it go. But, it's hard. How do I move on?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Stop
letting
her
control
your
feelings.

I'm sorry, but this is becoming much adu about nothing (don't think I spelled that right). Drama for the sake of drama. Now you are sinking to her level. Be the best person you can be, and let her be whoever she is. One has nothing to do with the other. Too much of your time, energy and thought have already been wasted on this. There are more important parts of your life deserve better than this distraction. Focus on that fact and you'll find a way to clear your mind of this.

Stop expecting an apology you aren't going to get, then you won't be disappointed about not getting it. You could start an honest conversation in which you say something like "Hey, this is awkward, but at the Baptism you said some things that were really hurtful and I can't stop thinking about it. I want to believe you didn't mean it and that you're sorry, but I need to know what you were thinking when you said it. And what happened that made you upset enough to say them?" If you're going to start a conversation, make the goal mutual understanding, not coaxing an apology that might not even be sincere. Unless you are going to do that, you have to stop expecting her to read your mind. Likely she is embarrassed and hopes that if you guys don't bring it up, she will let it lie. It's probably worked for her this far in life...

Stop adding grievances to the pile, get rid of the pile. It is emotional clutter. When something comes up, either learn to respectfully address it, or decide it's not worth it and let it go. Then you won't have a pile of old issues.

I don't mean to defend someone saying hurtful words. I just to remind you that moving on is about your peace of mind, it's something only you can do for yourself. It cannot be dependent on validation from someone else. You have to make that decision to move on for yourself and not feel that doing so makes the offense acceptable. It is totally and completely about your response, your choice on who is going to control your feelings.

My dad used to tell me to never let someone else control my feelings, they are much to valuable to hand over the control to someone else.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Truer words were never spoken, Stephanie. If everyone would assume responsibility for their own feelings, rather than laying the blame elsewhere, the epidemic that is estrangement would be greatly lessened.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I agree. Best to let it go and focus on only the positives in your relationship with the MIL.

I have a mom who sounds similar to your MIL. I spend many years of my life doing what felt like banging my head against a brick wall: trying to get her to understand that her behavior was hurtful, trying to get apologies, trying to be HEARD, most of all.

This type of person will react only with denial. They will not change.

Accept, vent your frustration, and most of all, understand that interacting with this type of person means a you cannot expect a normal relationship. Normal rules do not apply. This type of person must be "handled". Recognize that she is very isolated. I imagine that everyone else around her feels much like you do.

Most of all, let her be herself and don't be fake with her, just pleasant. If she gets irritating, just let her be and walk away.


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One more thing...

One more thing: don't feel guilty about setting the boundaries you need for your own sanity.

You can't make the weekend, so be it. Your family is the most important thing right now, not anyone else. Give yourself permission to do what is right for your family.

Remind yourself that your MIL already had her chance to raise a baby (or babies). She had her time. Now is your time and you must do what is best for you and your family (your baby and you and your DH).


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

But, I am still just so aggravated that MIL and FIL are acting like nothing happened

They're acting like nothing happened because you and your husband (together) have not mentioned to BOTH of them about your feelings of what happened at the christening and about how FIL does nothing to help the situations that MIL makes.

Lay EVERYTHING out on the table once and foreall! No beating around the bush. Both of you should tell both of them together!

We are not going because there were previous plans. We are hosting a party.

Do you know for a fact that she knew that you had plans of hosting a party (they've been gone a month)?

If they are under the assumption "that nothing happened", then there was nothing wrong with inviting all of you for a weekend. Both you and your husband haven't said anything to them about it, so how do you expect them to act?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I agree with Khandi - speak your mind.
Let them know that that sort of behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
They can then either take responsibility and turn over a new leaf, respecting your boundaries; in which case you will be able to have a decent relationship....or, more than likely, your MIL will play the victim card as in "why are you being to mean to me???", completely refuse to own up to her behavior, and not "understand" that you do have boundaries....but at least you will know you tried.

You and your DH need to put your foot down and spell it out. Tell them what you boundaries are, and why. Tactfully, but firmly.

As for your FIL's relationship with MIL and his being an enabler: that's really between the two of them and you won't be able to do anything about it. He's chosen the "path of least resistance," and probably won't change and probably won't even admit what he's doing.

It's his choice; if he wants to ignore her unacceptable behavior, he can, but that doesn't mean you and your DH have to follow suit.

Good luck, you're going to need it.


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MIL's are exasperating!

Hi there! I just found the site and was reading the posts. Since someone else is fed up with their mil, I thought I could say something.

First, I would definitely tell my mil/fil my feelings, or make your hubby do it, afterall it's his parents!!

I am dealing with a mil who claims to be oh so sweet, and even has my husband/her son sold on this. I think she always had him wrapped around her little pinky, and now he can't seem to deal with her or see her shortcomings.

It's time he grew up and became a man and not a mommy's boy. He needs to know that I'm the woman in his life now, not her! He can see her but only when it's a real reason, not just to stop and get coffee or lunch. I also think I should be with him when he visits, just so I can be sure she doesn't try to seduce him back into her control. When I'm not with him & he visits his mom, he always comes home with all these great things to say about her. Yet, when I'm there, I can break down the falsness of her actions so he can see more clearly. He is seeing a lot more of the truth about her then he ever did his entire life!

My mil wants us to treat them as if they are sacred cows. I wasn't raised this way, I was raised as an equal. I was taught I should be respected, and that other people need to earn my respect, not just get for having some silly title like parents, or grandparents.

I truly want her and fil out of our lives as much as possible. They are just so interfering. When my mom calls she treats me like the adult that I am, and I am on a first name basis with both my parents. Why should I be forced to call her Mrs.??? She suggested I call her Mom, but there is no way this is going to happen. I want to call her by her first name, but no, this is to disrespectful in her opinion. So, I just don't call her anything. I don't think she has even noticed that I never say address her by anything, that's how stupid she is.

How do I get this interfering, know it all, controling woman out of our lives? My husband doesn't need her, and would be so much better off without her meddling and peddling her thoughtful pretense. It's so obvious to anyone with a brain what she is doing.

Does anyone else think that their husband should basically remove himself from his family (except of course for holiday or birthday visits?)

Maybe we should move away so that he won't feel guilty about not seeing her or his dad. This is really getting on my nerves, and I'm pulling my hair out. I just never thought I'd be competing with my husbands mother, or so she thinks.

Help, save me from this woman!

becky1_08


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Sorry becky, but to me you sound like the DIL from hell! How dare you dictate to your husband the circumstances under which he can meet with his mother? If YOU wanted to stop in and see YOUR mother "just for coffee, or lunch", would you consider your husband had the right to forbid this as it's not "a real reason" or he's not with you? If everyone is equal, he gets to decide how he spends his spare time, not you.
And, no matter how YOU were raised, many other adults were raised to be respectful (note, I dindn't say "to RESPECT", but to be RESPECTFUL, a whole different kettle of fish) towards older people in general and older relatives in particular. Some of these older people are not comfortable with being called by their first name, or even calling others by their first names. I know one older lady who _always_ referred to others as "Mrs" or "Mr", even me when I was about 30 years younger than her, and at 47 I _never_ call an older person by their given name unless invited to do so by that person. If anyone prefers not to be called by their first name that is their privilege and whining about it only makes you look immature and rude.
Perhaps your MIL really IS sweet, after all, you haven't exactly given any concrete examples of her perfidy, only vague accusations of her "meddling", "pretense" and "falseness". Frankly, your tirade really shows _you_ up as controlling, insecure and childish more than it paints a picture of your MIL as Evil Incarnate.
"...other people need to earn my respect"- that cuts both ways honey. Perhaps you need to work on earning your MIL's respect if you expect her to respect you. If you showed up on MY doorstep with that attitude I sure as heck wouldn't respect YOU.
I think family members should be in as much contact as they like. We are very much in contact with my husband's family- parents, aunt, uncle, siblings and their partners, and guess what? We all LOVE each other. We respect each other's foibles, and listen to each other's opinions (and act on them or not, as we wish) and don't feel the need to control each other as you so clearly want to control your husband.
I agree the OP does have a problem MIL, but going on your post, the problem in your relationship is not your MIL.
Just my opinion, but you did ask for it.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"Just my opinion, but you did ask for it."

She asked for opinions, not the personal attack you just launched.

Becky, you asked if your husband "should remove himself" from his family except for holiday visits --- actually, when a man marries, he removes himself from his family of origin --- marriage is starting ANOTHER family.
So technically, the removal has already taken place.
The problem comes when you marry someone from a dysfunctional family who cannot break away from his mother (or father), and be man of his own house.
Most people these days --- especially members of the same family --- don't expect to be called "Mrs."
That sort of formality went out in the mid-sixties!
It seems odd to me that your MIL would want to be referred to as "Mrs;" yet, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with it, either....if that is how she wants to be addressed, what's the harm in it?
That is her comfort level.
I would just go ahead and call her Mrs.
As far as your husband visiting, it's not up to you to tell him how often to see them --- UNLESS he is cutting into your family time.
It sounds like you're a little jealous when he comes home, singing his mom's praises. Perhaps he is trying to get you to like her more, and that is why he is doing this?

You said she is interfering and controlling, what is she actually doing?

You don't have to like her. You don't have to even go around her, if you don't want to....if you'd rather not go, stay home and let your DH visit.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I totally agree with Colleenoz.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Becky, Becky, Becky.
I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are venting up there and your feelings are not as immature and selfish as they sound. So as one DIL to another, I'm just gonna tell you some truths as I see them. Know that this is coming from the heart, I am not a disgruntled MIL with an agenda (not even a MIL). I say this with respect to you, because you need to rethink your words/actions in order to... form a more perfect union. LOL.

The fact that you wrote the words "silly title like parents" speaks volumes. So, your ILs need to earn your respect. How about the fact that
they raised
the man
you love?

I don't always like the things my MIL does or says, or even her overall attitude. But she is still my husband's mother, and because I love and respect him, I respect his parents. THAT is how adults behave. I don't like golf, but I respect the fact that it is important to DH.

Do you respect your husband? I'm not sure, as I'm hearing you say that you think he is so naive he needs your protection from his own mother, and that he is too stupid to even see it.

You are seeing the negative in things. How about see that his loyalty and respect to the people who raised him shows his quality of character? It's not a threat. Rather, if you respect that, his appreciation for you will be even deeper. If you feel you need to always be present, that they cannot be trusted alone, you have some insecurity that is not their fault. That is a little controlling on your part.

I don't think a spouse should tell the other that he/she has to have a valid reason to see one's mother for the visit to be approved. (And why do you get to define what's valid?) However, I'm going to consider that maybe he is neglecting plans with you in order to have coffee/lunch with Mom, or that they exclude you on purpose. How often does he see his mother "for no reason?" How often do you think he SHOULD see his mother?

If he meets her excessively, like 3 times a week or something, I don't think that's healthy. That would mean he spends less time with you, and limits his friends. And it limits time she is spending with her other family/friends. If that's the case, maybe you need to negotiate.

Aside: I'm of the opinion that this whole "boundaries" stuff is not something you define (as everyone involved would make a different definition). It is something you negotiate, decide what is a deal breaker for you and try to be compassionate with others.

I can see that if visits have become excessive, you would just be ready to cut off communication altogether out of frustration. But that is overreacting. You can negotiate, every other Wednesday, or whatever. We have to drive 500 miles to see my ILs. But even then, I intentionally remove myself from the visit at times, I don't need to supervise it. There is a little part of me that wonders what MIL is saying to DH, knowing that she will say something manipulative and negative. But that little monster in me is getting smaller. I'm learning that it just doesn't matter. I don't have control over what another person says, I've let it go. She likes to take him golfing. I used to see that as a way to go without me, knowing I don't golf and wouldn't follow. What am I gonna do? Follow along? Take up golf just to spy? Seriously. I wouldn't care if he golfed with a co-worker, why care if he golfs with his mother? But, if it was every Sunday for 4-5 hours, I would not be happy. I'd say "Why don't you make this a monthly thing?" And I'd say what a man, who would give up a chance to golf with the guys to gold with his mother. A fine example to our sons. And to keep myself from dwelling on their outting without me, I go find something that I want to do.

If your DH comes home from the visits saying nice things about his mother, and that is your biggest problem, you need to thank your lucky stars. It is not your duty to point out her faults to him.

How do get this 'interfering, know it all, controlling woman' out of your lives? OK, wait a second. You don't want your husband to see his own mother unless you are there; you want to dictate to a grown woman what name she should be called; and you want to convince your DH of what a lousy person his mother is. THAT'S not interfering, know it all, and controlling to you? Are you kidding me? Do you hear yourself?

Does anyone else think a husband should basically remove himself from his family when he marries? Not me. Well, I think he should move out of the house. LOL. But limit visits to obligatory gatherings? Is that what you want from your children when they are grown? (I am assuming, actually, from the 'silly title' comment, that you are not a parent, at least yet.) *I was raised* that family doesn't need a reason to get together, just put out some food and a deck of cards and there's a reason. There are a lot of family customs out there, your life experience just hasn't included them. Doesn't make them wrong.

If you only see your parents for obligatory gatherings, that is your choice. But this is not a matter of right/wrong, it is different customs. Accepting that is part of marriage. As a wife, you do not get to change all those customs. You get to make some of your own as a couple, but it's not all your way.

I am gonna just call this one like I see it. Your behavior is immature and blatently disrepectful when you call her nothing b/c she doesn't want you to use her first name, and then to say that she is too 'stupid' to notice. I'm sure she notices, but she has the tact to keep it to herself, and the self-respect to stand up for herself. It's her name, she gets to choose it. If you can't say Mrs... then you need to grow up. Being an adult isn't confirmed by other people respecing you like one, it's confirmed by you repsecting other people like you are one.

Save you from this woman? You are too dramatic. I'm just gonna remind you:
negotiate, don't control
respect your husband
respect what/who he loves

They don't need to prove they deserve respect from you. They raised the man you married, that really should do it for you. You should not only respect them, you should thank them for doing such a great job. (You do like the final product, don't you?) You can have self-respect and live your own life while still being respectful to others, even those you don't like to be around.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Wow! Most of the wives in my family have to beg our husbands -- "it's been a long time -- please call your mother to see how she is doing!"

It would be a cold day before my DH would let me dictate who he can and cannot visit. He'd tell me to fly a kite!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Well said, stephanie! I think you were right on the money in your post! After reading Becky's post, it's understandable why she would receive some bold responses. The amount of control she wants to exert over her husband is mind boggling. To actually state the following:

"He can see her but only when it's a real reason, not just to stop and get coffee or lunch. I also think I should be with him when he visits, just so I can be sure she doesn't try to seduce him back into her control. When I'm not with him & he visits his mom, he always comes home with all these great things to say about her. Yet, when I'm there, I can break down the falsness of her actions so he can see more clearly. He is seeing a lot more of the truth about her then he ever did his entire life!"

What kind of a person does these things? This is what cults do. Cult members are not allowed to visit their family members unsupervised. It also sounds like brainwashing to me. She must be present whenever her husband is with his mother in order for her to twist everything his mother says into something negative. This is exactly what many posters have been accusing their DILs of doing, and many did not want to believe it. Well, here you have it - proof in writing from a DIL that is actively trying to influence her husband in a negative manner toward his mother. Here is further proof:

"I truly want her and fil out of our lives as much as possible."

"How do I get this interfering, know it all, controling woman out of our lives? My husband doesn't need her, and would be so much better off without her meddling and peddling her thoughtful pretense. It's so obvious to anyone with a brain what she is doing."

Becky thinks she knows what is best for her husband. And what she thinks is best for him, is for him to never see his mother again. She states her husband is better off without her. Why does she get to decide this? Who does she think she is - God?? She even goes so far as to state:

"Maybe we should move away so that he won't feel guilty about not seeing her or his dad."

Who is really the problem here? The husband's parents or an insecure, controlling DIL? In my opinion, the problem lies squarely with the DIL.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"Aside: I'm of the opinion that this whole "boundaries" stuff is not something you define (as everyone involved would make a different definition). It is something you negotiate, decide what is a deal breaker for you and try to be compassionate with others."

Stephanie, you so clearly wrote something I have been wanting to say but have not been able to put down on paper, so to speak. Thank you. Boundaries are totally selfish because they speak to what one person only wants; they are not about others.

Becky seems to be the kind of DIL (SILs too) who is causing so much heartache in so many families.

In reality, it was nice of her to post here because many of us now have confirmation of the way our children's spouses think; their actions are not just a figment of our imaginations. Thank you, Becky, for your post.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Two thumbs up to Colleen, Stephanie, Fuzzy and Colleen for excellent posts.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"In reality, it was nice of her to post here because many of us now have confirmation of the way our children's spouses think; their actions are not just a figment of our imaginations. Thank you, Becky, for your post."

So because this ONE poster said what she did, you feel entitled to condemn your DILs as evil???

Amazing....and scary.

Should those of us who are DILs take the nasty comments from MILs, and use them to condemn ALL MILs?

You wanted an excuse, and you're grasping at straws.....but hey, if it makes you feel better to think that way, have at it -- but it won't get you very far...


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Sirens, you've been reading and contributing, often in an inflammatory manner, to threads on estrangement since you posted your own thread in April about how to prevent an estrangement. Have you learned nothing from your reading or is the belief that it's all the MIL's fault so deeply ingrained in you that you just can't let it go?

Please learn to read poster's statements correctly. YOU are the one who called DILs "evil". All I said was that Becky's statement confirmed how many of our DILs act. Are you calling Becky evil?

If I recall correctly, you are estranged from your mother but I don't recall why. Is that why you are so afraid of becoming estranged from one of your children?

When you have been estranged from one of your children - and the chances are excellent that you will be because you have established a precedent, you may then come back and tell me that I am grasping at straws. I can assure you I am not - and neither are many of the other posters who are going through estrangement. On the other hand, you, my dear, are the one who is not going to get very far with your "it's all about me" attitude (your posts re boundaries). You need to re-read the posts from Colleen, Natalie and Stephanie and learn from them. I hope that Becky has.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I didn't start a thread on how to prevent an estrangement. That's incorrect. The thread I started was asking for input as to how to prevent same - big, big difference.
I also take issue with your statement that my posts are inflammatory - on the contrary, I have tried to keep discussions on the issue at hand, unlike what you are doing right now.
No, I'm not particularly afraid of becoming estranged from my children, any more than anybody else is...and I don't think the fact that my mother and I are estranged means that that will happen with my kids and I - on the contrary, I think that the likelihood is lessened when any issues are addressed early ---- not to say that sometimes, one or the other (mother or daughter) just cuts off contact for no discernable reason, but I think that's rather rare.
Your rather hostile predictions that I will be estranged from my children don't bother me, but if it makes you feel better to wish hurt on someone else, go right ahead.
Believe it or not, you don't have that power.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Sirens, the title of the thread you started is:

"How to PREVENT an Estrangement" in which you wrote "My question to all of you people is, is there any way that a person can prevent an estrangement from happening?"

You are nitpicking but you are correct in that I should have stated that you asked how to prevent an estrangement; you did not write about HOW to prevent an estrangement. I could further nitpick and ask why you did not put a question mark in your thread's title, since it was, in fact a question, not a statement. However, further down in my post I questioned why you were afraid of an estrangement, which should give readers the indication that your post was inquisitory.

I never wished estrangement on you. You have a habit of reading into other's writings things that were not said. I believe you are insecure, frightened and angry. I truly feel sorry for you. Please go ahead and respond that I don't know you, that you are a very happy person - but I have read your writings and your writings say a great deal about you.

If you would read and absorb what others have written here and on other sites, you will see that once estrangement has taken place in a family the odds that it will continue through the generations are very good.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I don't care if you "believe" I am insecure, frightened, and angry. I have posted that my mother and I are estranged, and we are - but that doesn't mean I am unhappy.
That makes you uncomfortable, and so you lash out.
It really bothers some people, to see someone be happy.
I feel sorry for you....and, once again, you do not have the power to pronounce estrangement on anyone. You are angry and threatened at someone who is open and able to discuss issues - perhaps that is the reason you are here.
Instead of concerning yourself with my future, you would be better served to work on your own problems...


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Would you two stop? Play nicely!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I hope you saw Dr. Phil today.....it sounds like you and your MIL~~~and he was not too kind to the daughter for being such a "spoiled brat"....could this be you?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Wow! They do exist!!! LOL

I am actually amazed, surprised, stunned, and somewhat bewildered on how a DIL/wife like Becky could be like that!

I totally agree with Coleen, Stephanie and Natalie!

He needs to know that I'm the woman in his life now, not her!

There's room in his life for two women - a wife and a mother! Your statement makes you sound very, very selfish and insecure.

He can see her but only when it's a real reason, not just to stop and get coffee or lunch.

Stopping by to visit her BECAUSE she's his mother is reason enough for him to do so!

I also think I should be with him when he visits, just so I can be sure she doesn't try to seduce him back into her control.

Paranoid! Insecure! Controlling!

When I'm not with him & he visits his mom, he always comes home with all these great things to say about her.

Jealousy? His mom is a good woman which he loves and you can't stand that fact? Insecure!

Yet, when I'm there, I can break down the falsness of her actions so he can see more clearly.

Rude? Ignorant? Jealousy? Insecure?

He is seeing a lot more of the truth about her then he ever did his entire life!

Wishful thinking!

IMO, you have a real problem with feeling secure in your relationship with you husband. He loves you as a wife, and he loves his mom as a mother. Two very different kinds of love! It's okay! You sound like you are threatened by his love for his mom/relationship with his mom.

My mom always told me that you could tell how a man will treat his wife by the way he treats his mother. It's been proven to me many, many times.

You should be proud of the way he treats his mother... stopping by to visit her, speaks highly of her, etc.

Heck, my husband will stop by my parents house for a little visit whenever he drives by. To see how they're doing and if they need any help with something! And they're his in-laws! He does the same for his mom if she calls for something (which is the only time that she does). I don't mind at all cuz she's his mom! I wouldn't think too highly of my husband if he didn't help his mom when she called. I'd find it disrectful! Sure, sometimes she's annoying, lies a lot, husband thinks she's bipolar at times, etc., but we both love her as she is. She's his mom and she raised a good son despite all the hardships she had while doing so. My husband had an abusive alcoholic father who died at 43. MIL had 8 kids to raise (youngest 2 and 3, and oldest 18 and 16) and with a business that was mortgaged twice over. She made the business a success while raising all those kids. She instilled beautiful values and morals into my husband, which is the biggest reason why I love her and why I think that she's a great strong woman.

She thanks me twice a year (Christmas and birthday) for being a good wife to her son. My entire family have told my husband how much of a good man he is and how lucky that I am to have such a man. My grandmother (94) who actually hates men (had abusive schizo husband, etc.) tells me every time that I see her to hang on to him as there are not too many like him out in the world. She adores him!

So how can I not think highly of my MIL. She's actually told my husband when we first got married that holiday "stuff" should always be on the wife's side of the family. I say no, we take turns. Thanksgiving on one side and Christmas DAY on the other side... next year, we reverse! I couldn't imagine doing it her way if it were reversed.

Not sure how long you've been married but, IMO, if this keeps up, I'd be surprised if it will be for a long time! Not because he loves his mom more, because there's no comparison (different kind of love), but because you "pushed" him away with your negative attitude towards his mother, your insecurity, jealousy, etc.

I'm surprised if you let him have friends! LOL

If you really loved your husband, IMO, you wouldn't be acting like this. You are being direspectful to your husband when you treat his mother like this with your demands!

You should seek counselling for your insecurities/issues before it's too late. It's obvious that something from your life has caused you to feel this way!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Ok, I guess I need to elaborate on the things my mil has interfered with and/or allowed to happen.

Right after we got engaged my mil her son if we were going to send a christmas card out from the two of us. My now hubby said no, so my mil asks if she can include a picture of us when we got engaged along with her card. My hubby says yes that that would be fine (but he never asked me!) HOWEVER, my mil doesn't tell us that she is making up a picture card for herself, and us! She makes a picture card with our engagement photo and puts on it Feliz Navidad!!! What was that about, we're not spanish! Following that, she puts the information regarding our engagement such as our names & date engaged. We were away for the week end and came back to my hubby's condo to find my mil's x-mas card. I was outraged! How could she tell us she was sending just a picture, when in fact she was actually sending a card for us along with her card! I loved my husbands conversation with her too. WHen he asks why she would send a card, she said I didn't send a card. Her son corrects her and says that yes it is a card, and now we wanted to send our own card but we can't. Mil states that it is 'technically' a card, but that that was not her intention (as if!) She claims she put the feliz navidad on ours just to be cute, since she wasn't intending that to be a card from us. The lies this woman conjures up.

My hubby told her that technically or not, it was still a card. Mil actually admitted then that he was right, but she still claimed that isn't what she intended. She claims she was just so happy and excited about introducing me to the family and friends that she just didn't think about it in that way! Yeah right, I believe that one! How selfish is that? Now that took away our chance to send a holiday card as we had now decided to do. She kept insisting that we could still send our holiday card, and insinuated that most of the people on our list were not the same ones on hers! I was too furious to even think about sending out our own card after her thoughtless maneuver.

Eventually she called and apologized for sending it, and tried to claim of course that she meant no harm, and was really just so proud to show everyone who I was. I told her that that is fine, but just not to let it happen again. I think she was angry at that response, but too bad, she has to know her place and she overstepped her bounds. Clearly she agreed or she wouldn't have apologized.

Next, my husband's family has a wedding shower for me. This is very sweet of them, and I was excited. During the shower, I hear two people who happen to be friends of my mil yacking it up while I'm opening my gifts! It gets worse...I then realize that these people are like in a hot discussion over something, since I see my husband's aunt lean over and ask them to be quiet, or at least that's what she must have been saying. My mil just sits right next to her friends and yet she chooses not to intervene! I guess she chose not to control a controllable situation, afterall, it was just her dil's shower, no big deal!

Days later I finally get a phone call from my mil, and she tries to tell me that she hopes I would understand what a difficult position she was in because it was two of her good friends! Yeah, and this was your dil's shower, so waht's the problem? What, she can't control them because they are good friends? They were at a bridal shower, what were they doing arguing like that at that time? I told my mil that I could control my friends if it were me and then, she gets all mad and huffy and tells me to "listen young lady, your not my peer"! Well, that was enough! Imagine her telling me that I'm not her peer, I am an adult, and was an adult when she said that to me! So I hung up on her which was the only thing she deserved me to do! My mil never even said she was sorry for her rude thoughtless comment to me, she just acted like it never happened. I guess that was easier for her then apologizing?

Now the wedding list was to be given to us. My mil's had ridiculous people she was inviting! First, I told her no more then 10-20% over the amount she wanted to come. ALL the magz told us that that was a safe amount to go over. So she goes the full 20% over, instead of being careful and just going 10% like most rational people would. I have my hubby ask her who some of the people were that she was inviting, and she said they are first cousins of hers..blah, blah, blah. I asked my hubby if he knew who these people were, which of course he didn't, so I had him tell her that those people don't need to be there since we don't even know them! This was our wedding, we should have who we want to come, and we should certainly know who the people are that are attending. Besides that, we had friends who worked with me all summer at the restaurant that meant alot to us to invite. In a huff, she removed those cousins from the invite list and actually told her son that his grandfather would be very disappointed if he knew he made her take those people off the list. She tries to guilt out my husband by telling him that the one cousin was very good to his grandpa, and always stopped by to see him. I was so glad my husband didn't fall for that one, though I did have to build him up a bit afterwards reminding him that this is our wedding and we don't need to feel guilty over anything we choose to do.

Now it's time to pick a place for the rehearsal dinner. I tell my husband that the restaurant I work at has a loft and would be perfect for the situation. I was also so well liked at the job, that my manager was willing to give us a discount. So my hubby told her that I could get a discount, so why don't we have the rehearsal at the restaurant. You'd think my mil would be so happy over this, but instead of rejoicing, she says she has to talk to hubby's dad about it. Mil states that she wanted to pick out the place, and she had a few places in mind so she had to think it over. As if! Again she just wants to control everything she can. FInally she calls and says we can have it there, and claims it was nice that I thought of it, except then she goes right into telling me that she wants a 2 drink limit for all the guests! Also, she gets bugged that all the attendants are bringing their dates since she said 'oh this is going to add a lot on to the cost.' My hubby sets her straight that all the attendants do get to have their boyfriend or wife/husband to come along, to which she concedes, yet she is still harping about wanting that 2 drink max. This was totally NOT what we wanted, we wanted an open bar for the occassion, was this too much to ask?

Finally after days have gone by, my mil decides that yes, it's ok to have an open bar but it can only be open for 1 hour! UGH.....she always has to get her way somehow! Though my hubby tried to talk to her and his dad, they wouldn't budge on their 'new' rule. Can't you just feel the control this woman tries to exert?

I tell my husband that I want to make the rehearsal dinner invitations to send out, and that I will do everything needed. He tells his mother who flips out saying that this was supposed to be her job, and starts whining that she hardly has any part in this wedding, and that she at least wanted this part. She claims she had some cute little place that she was going to have the invitations made (I'd like to know where this place was, in lala land!) My hubby tells her that he will have me call her and talk to her about it, which made me so angry. Why couldn't he just stand up to her and tell her that I was going to send the invitations?

So, I'm supposed to call her, but, I forget. My mil calls my hubby and asks if I got her message, to which he told her that I had rightfully sent out the invitations already, that it was too late when I got the message, that I had already sent them before he knew it. It was perfect since she had no business infringing on me doing anything for my wedding, and I was doing her a favor and convinced my hubby just how nice and easy I made it for his mom! I made the invitations on my computer, and addressed and mailed them all for her! You would think she would be happy, but no she was upset with her son and let him know that she thought I was wrong for what I did!!

After that things were really bad, and my mil argued with my hubby over him marrying me! I know all about this because I told my hubby that when two people are married they don't keep anything from each other, ever. So my mil tells my hubby that she wants him to think hard if he was making the right chocie marrying me since I was so disrespectful, rude and selfish! Can you believe this woman, the nerve is so out there. Of course her son didn't listen to her, and knew what kind of person I really was, but the nerve of her to talk to him like that.

Before the wedding, my husband makes me go to talk to his mom. He claims that his mom is really a nice person, and that I need to sit down and try to settle our differences so that we can get along! I am totally against this, but he is so angry that he threatens to break up with me if I dont' do it. He goes to see his brother, and his brother tells him that he shouldn't marry me if he isn't sure, yet my hubby didn't say he wasn't sure. Still, he lets his brothers opinion get in the way, and comes back and threatens to break off the wedding. Luckily I knew pretty much what his interfering little brother was going to do (since they both kiss up to their mother like she was some saint,) so I went through a phone book and had marriage counselors picked out. I told him that anything we had to resolve could be done with a marriage counselor. I convinced him that I loved him more than anything, which of course I did and do, and that we can work this out. I told him not to let his mother interfere with our happiness.

So anyway, my hubby sets up a day and time that I'll stop by to see his mother. I decided to bring my best friend with me since I don't know how irrational this lady might get with me. She lets us in and then start the interrogation! Oh, she tried to act calm and nice enough, but I could see right through it. My mil thinks she is so superior to me that it isn't funny, and I don't have a clue as to how she could think such a thing. She never went to college, and was a stay at home mom her whole life, in fact, she still doesn't work! What a sheltered life she leads, no wonder she is how she is.

WHile we're talking, or should I say while she is interogating me, she asks me why I never talk to her younger son anymore. She claims she has noticed I've been quiet with him for months and months. I tell her that of course I haven't been talking to him, that I was teaching him a lesson. She looks so stupid and actually asks why I'm teaching him a lesson. I know she knew what this was about, but I played along like I believed her. So I tell her that he had to know that the girl he was dating was wrong for him. NOw she asks if I think her younger son knew that this is why I wasn't talking to him. Oh brother, it's like, hello??? I told her of course he knew what I was doing, since he did break up with the girl that was wrong for him. Obviously he got the message, I mean somethings don't need to be spelled out in every detail like my mil would like. She's always saying how we have to communicate more, that she doesn't understand when we're upset and don't talk about it. Egads, she is such a head case.

After an hour of questions she finally lets me go, and tells me how much she likes me and wants to have a relationship with me, like a daughter. I have a mother, and I don't want another one, and if I did, it certianly wouldn't be her. Still, I pretended that I liked what she said, and she actually hugged me good bye. My friend just sat there dumbfounded through the whole thing, and afterwards she agreed with everything I said bugged me about my mil.

At least this got my hubby feeling less afraid of losing his mom, and of us not getting along. Geez, I could hardly stand it, and still can't! I don't get the ties my mil has to her two boys, it's not even healthy to be so close to one's sons. I think she just can't handle the fact that they are grown and leaving her. She told my hubby that she still hopes they can continue their close relationship after he was married, but in a different sort of way. As if he is going to be intimate with her now, when he has me! I had to keep telling him that it isn't healthy to be so close to your mom, that you need to break away from her. I think I have finally made some progress, but he still wants to meet her for lunch or coffee. It's like, hello, we have our own life now. It's one thing for a daughter to be close to her mom, but it's unnatural for a son to remain so close to his mom, especially once he has a wife.

I hope now you ALL can see who voiced your loud complaints just what I am dealing with. I have a mommy's boy for a husband, and he needs to learn that I am his family now, and that it's us, not them.

Becky

PS...You sure all had a lot of opinions without knowing all the facts now, didn't you?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

First, I need to apologize for my screw up in my previous post. I meant to include Natalie.

After reading Fuzzys post, I read the entire thread on preventing estrangements. I have to agree that the author of that thread does seem both angry and frightened, especially when she writes about her mother.

I re-read this thread and see that the poster suggests to Becky that she establish boundaries in her relationship with her MIL. It seems to me that the posters mother had established boundaries, not good boundaries but boundaries nonetheless, with her as a child and that she is angry that she could not get past the boundaries set by her mother.

As a child, I dont recall ever hearing my mother say "I love you" to me. I do know that she never offered to give me a hug or a kiss but was always asking that I give her a hug and a kiss. She was looking to me for the affirmation of her worth that she never got growing up as a child. I, like Sirens, changed that with my children. They were both offered hugs, kisses and told that they were loved on a daily basis. And yet, my daughter has estranged herself because her husband has demanded it. Estrangement is well established in my SILs family and he thinks thats what you do when a family member does something you dont like. You dont talk it out, you just shove that person out of your life.

My thoughts on Becky's situation have not changed since reading her most recent post. YOU are the problem, Becky. YOU want to CONTROL BOTH your MIL and your husband.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Becky, if you don't like your MIL and she doesn't like you, stay away from her.
But your husband should be the one to decide when/if/how much time he spends with his mom.
(Unless she is intruding on your family time; in which case, you have a real problem there but even then, your DH should be able to say "no" if her requests are inappropriate).
I haven't interfered in my DH's "relationship" with his mother (if you can call it that).
He makes duty visits.
He is the man of the house and I don't tell him what to do; it's not my place.
He can see his mother when he wants to. Luckily for me, I'm married to a man and not a whipped boy...


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

PS...You sure all had a lot of opinions without knowing all the facts now, didn't you?

Yep, and now that I know more of the facts, I have more!

I was so glad my husband didn't fall for that one, though I did have to build him up a bit afterwards reminding him that this is our wedding and we don't need to feel guilty over anything we choose to do.

If you had to build him up to feel better about this so he wouldn't feel guilty, it's obvious that he felt it wasn't right to start off with. But you manipulated him into thinking it was for the best. Again, manipulative and controlling!

It's one thing for a daughter to be close to her mom, but it's unnatural for a son to remain so close to his mom, especially once he has a wife.

Where do you get this from? A wife does not replace a mother! The fact that you said As if he is going to be intimate with her now, when he has me! He doesn't sleep with his mother, he sleeps with his wife! Seems you have no idea of what a mother is and what a wife is.

The fact that you need marriage counselling BEFORE you actually get married should say it all!

A person doesn't "let go" of their parents and siblings just because they start a family of their own. A family GROWS! You don't ISOLATE a family. In fact, the closer your relationship is with your in-laws, the stronger your relationship with your spouse will flourish.

Don't be afraid of letting them in. The stronger your family ties are, the better it is.

I was taught I should be respected, and that other people need to earn my respect, not just get for having some silly title like parents, or grandparents.

Silly title like parents or grandparents? Having a child is a blessing because not everyone can be parents. You earn respect by respecting others.

Seems like you have no idea what a family is all about.

I've read your posts to my husband and he says that it's like a script from Hollywood. Quite entertaining, but get a life!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I certainly agree with khandi - and then some!

PS...You sure all had a lot of opinions without knowing all the facts now, didn't you?

Like khandi, now that I have more of the facts, I am even more convinced of how controlling a person you truly are. If I didn't know better, I would suspect your entire post is some kind of a joke. It is unbelievable to me that your MIL took as much abuse as she did! She should be cannonized! There is so much to say I'm not sure where to begin! Let's start from the beginning:

The Christmas card incident. Why on earth would you make such a huge deal out of your MIL sending out the photo of you and her son? As she stated, she was happy and excited about you joining the family. That should have made you happy. And why were you so upset about Feliz Navidad being written on it? Are you prejudiced? It is none of your business what she writes on HER Christmas cards. She asked permission of her son if she could use the photo and he said yes. He also told her that the two of you were NOT planning on sending out your own cards. What do you think she is - psychic or something? She's supposed to know that you were indeed planning on sending cards, but her son just gave her the wrong information? Why would she need to consult with you when he told her you weren't sending them out? Since you have NO trouble speaking for your husband, why then should he not be able to speak for you? Also, nothing prevented you from sending out your own card except for your own anger and spite. You have no one to blame but yourself for that! Even though you received an explanation and an apology, you were still not satisfied! What else did you expect her to do? Get real! How childish and immature to get so angry over something so minor. And, yes, that is MINOR compared to the real problems in this world!!!

The bridal shower incident. This is almost too laughable to even discuss! You get upset because two people are talking during "your" event. I guess you are someone so extremely important that everyone should be focused intently on you with complete and total admiration! How DARE anyone turn their attention away from you, even for one moment! Please!! You are NOT a celebrity, a member of royalty or a saint! Tell me - did the ivitations to this momentous occasion mention that there must be complete silence while the "chosen one" opens her gifts? Maybe your future MIL should have banished "the talkers" to the basement or the dungeon for their "crimes"! You state that she should have "controlled" them. Yes, like how you want to control eveyone and every thing. Not eveyone is a control freak! Then you rake your future MIL over the coals when she tries to make amends to you and you are disrespectful to her. I'm sorry, but NO, you are NOT her peer!! She is the mother of your DH and you are not on an equal playing field. Her position deserves respect. There is even a commandment concerning that - you might want to check it out. Then you hung up on her - and you expect HER to apologize??! What planet are you living on? She was nice enough to host this event for you and this is how you repay her. The fact that she was still speaking to you after this incident, speaks volumes for her character.

The wedding list. Another laughable incident. You tell your mother-in-law not to invite more than 10-20% over who she wanted to attend, and she follows your guidelines and you're still not satisfied. Again, she's supposed to be psychic. If you wanted only 10% over, why didn't you just say that? Why must you play these silly games? Is it because you want to create these problems? There's absolutely nothing wrong with your MIL telling her son that some relatives would be disappointed if they were not being invited to the wedding. Does she have to consult you before having conversations with her son? Maybe you should present her with a script every time she speaks to
her son. Would that satisfy you? And how kind of you to "build up" your husband by convincing him it is alright to exclude his relatives from your wedding.

The rehearsal dinner. This one really is unbelievable to me. The rehearsal dinner is paid for by the MIL/FIL and they get to choose the location. They do not have to consult you or get your permission about it. Did your parents get their permission where to hold the wedding and reception? You should have been happy that they conceded to your wishes and had it where you wanted to have it. You state she "wants to control everything she can." No, that is what you do. In this instance she has the right to choose the location. What is so wrong with MIL wanting to consult FIL (her husband) before making a commitment? Some people actually consult their spouses and do not control everything. It should be a joint decision since they are both paying for it. Also, attendants do not automatically get to bring their dates. Again, this is a decision that the husband's parents get to decide. You might want to brush up on your rehearsal dinner etiquette. I sponsored one myself and I am quite familiar with the rules. As long as the wedding party is invited, it is strictly optional as to whether dates are included. As to the open bar, your MIL/FIL were willing to give a 2 drink max per person. This is reasonable - they are paying for it. How many drinks did you think your wedding party needed? Did they not have to drive home? Did you want them driving intoxicated? This wasn't a wild party on a cruise ship! Yet, your MIL concedes to your demands and you get your open bar. Still this isn't enough for you! You think one hour isn't enough time for your apparently alcohol loving wedding party. How selfish and ungrateful can you get?

The rehearsal invitations. Again, totally unbelievable! You had to control even this aspect of the rehearsal dinner. Your MIL had the right to choose and send out the invitations to the dinner that SHE paid for. Yet, you sneakily went behind her back, against her wishes, and sent them out yourself. How manipulative, controlling and disrespectful! Do you even recognize how deceitful this behavior is? Obviously not, because you are, yet again, angry at your MIL for rightfully being upset with your tactics. You were so angry when she sent out the Christmas cards without your permission (though her son said it was okay), but you see nothing wrong with purposely sending out invitations that you KNOWINGLY did against her wishes. What's wrong with this picture?

Now as to the discussion your MIL had with her son. Frankly, I can hardly believe she waited as long as she did before asking him if he was sure he wanted to marry you. Your behavior, that you yourself spelled out, is exactly as your MIL described to her son: "disrespectful, rude, and selfish." She simply called it like she saw it. Again, she does not have to ask your permission what she can say to her son. Do you ask her permision what to say when you are bashing her to her son? It was to your husband's credit that he wanted you to talk things out with his mother. But no, not you!! You state that you are "totally against this". Why would you be against working things out with your future MIL? Perhaps because you have no intention of ever having a decent relationship with her, so why put out the effort? You only agree to a meeting after your fiance threatens to call everything off. You also manage to bash his younger brother because he thinks his brother should be sure about you before marrying you. I wonder why that would disturb you? If you were decent, caring and nice, why would it bother you?

Of course you can't meet your future MIL one on one. You have to bring a cronie with you who would back you up no matter how nasty you might get. Two against one is always better than standing on your own. That's what bullies do.

Your MIL asks why you've not been speaking to her youngest son and you proceed to tell her that you didn't like his girlfriend so you were "teaching him a lesson". Yeah, like he couldn't survive without you speaking to him! And yet again, you are trying to control everyone, even up to who they choose to date! And you call HER a "head-case"???

Even after listening to this drivel, your MIL is STILL nice to you and wants to have a relationship with you like a daughter? She must be a glutton for punishment!
"Still, I pretended that I liked what she said.."
There you go being deceitful again. You put on a show that you are cooperative when you have absolutely no intention of getting along. It is obvious that you will not be happy until you have managed to get your MIL completely out of your husband's life. I feel sorry for your MIL - but most especially I feel sorry for your husband.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I have to say, Becky, you didn't do yourself any favors in describing your "problems" with your MIL. Your behavior in the those situations was just wrong. I'm sorry you are having so much trouble finding common ground with your MIL. I'm not going to review and comment on every situation, I would only be restating what Nataliehope wrote. That rehearsal dinner conflict, you were just wrong. I'll try to assume it was youthful lack of knowledge and experience and one day you'll look back and feel foolish. The dinner is a gift from the groom's family to the couple. And it was a generous gift, you should say a sincere thank you. Your response to that situation makes you come across as ungrateful. On the rest of it, like I said, Nataliehope said enough to set you straight.

I also don't want to just chastise you and alienate you, because I really want you hear what I'm saying. I simultaneously want to smack some sense into (figuratively, not literally) and hug you (literally). Alas, I can't reach you for either one. I think your hostility is rooted in fear and misunderstanding.

It is clear to me from what you say that your DH loves you very much (or why, oh why, would he put up with this drama). He has given you a very special place in his life. There is no threat to that from his family. Even he was asked if he was sure, he said he is, end of discussion. You have his love, his loyalty, his heart *as a wife*. There is no reason for you to be so defensive. If you don't stop behaving as though you have to fight tooth and nail to keep your place in his life, he is going to grow intolerant, anyone would.

Loving a wife does not stop a son from continuing to love and honor his mother, nor should it change for a daughter and her father. Your marriage is not a divorce from your families.

You are your biggest threat, your own worst enemy right now. Your behavior and attitude are going to put more stress on your marriage than any normal marriage could withstand. Not your MIL, YOU! The sooner you learn to genuinely respect your husband's mother and family the happier and stronger your marriage will be. If for no other reason, you need to change your attitude for the good of your marriage. When he gets the backbone you want him to have, he's not going to use it to stand up to his mother, he's going to use it to stand up to you.

You are not her peer. You do not have the life experiences in common with her that would allow you to call yourself her peer. Your disrespect of her b/c she doesn't have a college degree or a "career" is ignorant. A college degree is NOT evidence of a person's value. Don't make that mistake, you'll exclude a lot of people who could truly enhance your life on this planet. She raised the man you married, is that not a valuable way to have spent her life? Say thank you! There are a lot of lessons to learn in this life, now that you're out of college you can learn some of them.

Don't hold on so tight to this resentment. It's hurting everyone, most of all yourself and your husband. Please, hear me. Please give my words some thought. I don't even know you, but I really do care that you don't mess this up. Lighten up, really. Your husband loves you.. go enjoy it... stop fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Open your heart, your mind.

What are you truly afraid of? I really do think you need to work out some emotions that are getting the best of you right now. I want you to be happy, only you can give yourself that. Talk to someone, objective, a therapist. You need another perspective, someone neutral.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

classic case of DIL from H??ll. This poor woman has to watch her son marrying somone who is so controlling and disrespectful. I wonder if this post is for real because it just hard to belive that there are DILs like this...


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

So my mil tells my hubby that she wants him to think hard if he was making the right chocie marrying me since I was so disrespectful, rude and selfish!

This proves what a thoughtful, loving mother she is because she didn't say "DON'T" marry her, she said "THINK HARD" about it.... like any loving parent would do.

I totally agree with Natalie and Stephanie.

I know that I sound really harsh in my posts, but it's just so unbelievable. I, too, thought that this must be someone who is making up this stuff to get this forum all riled up!

Life is way too short and love is hard enough to find to just throw it all away because of petty stuff, jealousy, manipulation, being controlling, etc.

I would bet a million bucks that if you just relaxed and enjoyed your husband and family, that you'd be so much happier with life. Quit trying to find every negative thing about every situation that involves his parents.

I don't know how a person can say they love their spouse and then treat his/her parents like this! That's not love!

You need to find out why you have such a need to control everything in your life, etc. Everybody deserves to be happy but, honey, this is NOT the way to go about it. You might get the surprise of your life when he does get some backbone, like someone mentioned above, and decides that you are the toxic one in his life.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"I was taught I should be respected, and that other people need to earn my respect...(snip)"
Can we say "Princess"?

My goodness, the drama! What foot stomping and curl tossing! In case anyone was wondering what happens to Bridezilla the day after the honeymoon ends, well, wonder no more.


Then again, IMHO, Becky's posts are just proof that not all Trolls live under bridges waiting for little goats to clip clop over. (You know, like, totally.)


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Ugh!!!! You people just don't understand. I thought this was a place of reason, but apparently I made a mistake! Even now, I don't know why I'm bothering on writing again, except that perhaps if I tell you the straw that broke our back then you'll understand what a messed up woman my husband's mom is (and fil!)

After we were married for just over a year, my mil calls my hubby and asks if we'd like to go to Puerto Rica with them and his little brother. Supposedly she tells my hubby not to give her an answer, to wait and talk to your wife so that we don't know who didn't want to go if you decide not to go. I think my husband so exagerates about how nicely his mother puts things, but I've learned to live with that side of him. He is brainwashed by her, what can I say?

My husband begs me to go, he tells me that when will we get the chance to do anything like this again all expenses paid. Seriously, if it weren't for him begging me there is no way I would have gone. Still, since I don't like them I didn't mind going and having them pay for it all. I thought, I can put up with her craziness for just one week.

Of course the controlling mil had to make a stipulation before we agreed. Mil made her son promise that most of the time we were in Puerto Rica that we would spend with them. I think he made it seem nicer put then it actually was since knowing my mil, it was downright demanding. I told him to tell her anything she wants to hear, but that we'll do what we please once we are there. He gets upset with my answer, so I talk to him and I convince him that this is just his mother trying to control things again. Hubby finally see's what she is doing and why she is doing it, and agree's that we will just tell her we'll spend most of our time with them except for perhaps a night out for dinner, walks on the beach, going to a bar late at night, etc. He convinces her that we will do almost all our recreational activities there together, which is fine with me because I know I'll do what I want to do and I won't ask her permission to do it. If they want to spend their money on me taking a trip with them, then so be it, but I will be myself, and no one owns me.

When it gets to be about six months before the trip, my hubby gets weak knees and starts telling his mother every month that we may do somethings on our own. Hubby tries to tell her little by little that it won't be just the way she asked, but she doesn't get it! She falls for him telling her that we'll still be spending most of the time with them. It's not my fault she is so gullible.

Finally the trip comes, and I am dreading it. Then I realize that once I get there, I'll be able to convince my husband that her demands for our being with them were not right, that no one should do tell anyone else what they have to do.

We get to Puerto Rico late in the day, and I am so tired. Luckily I didn't have to sit by them in the flight, just by hubby and obedient brother. While at the airport my fil has the nerve to tell me to go stand by my mil so that she isn't alone! I couldn't believe my ears, it's like, hello, why should I do that, she is perfectly fine where she is at. So, I hear what he requests but I just sit down on a bench as if I didn't hear a word he said. My fil doesn't say a word, so apparently he agreed with me that it wasn't the right thing to tell me what to do.

Then at the airport they are selling these exotic Puerto Rican flowers, so he wants to by his wife one. I guess he feels guilty not buying me one, so he buys one, but then has the little brother bring it to me - oh, how thoughtful! This infuriated me to no end, so when the little brother got to me, I told him that I'm allergic to flowers. I didn't even bother thanking him since it was so rude that the fil didn't bring it to me himself. I had to laugh cause a few minutes later I see the little brother give it to my mil so now she had two, isn't she special?!

They did get a very nice suite which we demanded had to have two rooms and two bathrooms. I mean there is no way we are going to be forced to share a bathroom. His parents never argued over this, but I know it rubbed them the wrong way. I would have gone stark raving mad if I didn't have a room to run away to while we were there. I would just bury my nose in my books, so that I wouldn't have to talk to them. I mean they are so boring, and have such warped sense of humors, it's pathetic. I don't know how my husband never realized this about his family before I came into his life, however he see's it clear as day now.

We just go to dinner the first night, and it was grueling.I was so happy when it was over, but I told hubby that we are spending the day on the beach the next day. I hear him tell his mother that we all (including the little brother) want to spend our 1st day on the beach sunning and swimming. I know it must have taken every ounce of strength my mil had in order for her to be able to hide her disagreement with our plans (and believe me, she is not strong!) SO she puts on this fake smile, and tells us that of course we would want to spend the first day on the beach, and we'll start some sightseeing the day after that! Oh, isn't she just so sweet! This is why I'm having such a hard time convincing my hubby about who is mom really is. He just falls for everything she does as real. I could see my fil wasn't happy, but my mil probably kicked him or something to put on a fake look.

Now this is the kicker. We're in the condo and my mil is so worried about us getting sun burned (or rather her precious little boys!) My fil gets some really strong sun screen as if we don't want to get a tan! My fil then tells me that I need to put this on my hubby's little brother's back! As if, why should I do that, he has his brother there to do it. So, I tell him flat out that "no, I don't want to do that, that's gross!" I think he thought I was kidding, cause he never said anything to my comment. Later that night my mil & fil are now so upset because her baby got so sunburned, and they asked if he didn't have lotion on. Of course the baby brother says he did have lotion on but couldn't reach his back. I could see my mil biting her tongue not to say something rude to me, and then she asks why he didn't ask me or his brother to do it. The brother just shrugs his shoulders, but I know it was because he thought I should do it because his dad told me to do so! At least he didn't lie about us refusing to do it.

Every day in Peurta Rica was like torture! The only thing that saved it was that I talked my hubby into getting our own rent a car and making up a story about how we wanted to see things that weren't in the plans. I could see the shock and fake hurt my mil gave out when she heard our plans. Oh, poor mil, your son is married now and wants to spend time with his wife alone so get used to it.

Amazingly they didn't try to control us like she usually does, and just didn't say anything about our plans. I was very sweet though and talked my hubby into gettnig some wine that I know his mom loves and bringing it back to the room when we were done for the day. It was glorious! We didn't spend any time that day with them, and when we walked in, they couldn't be upset because we thought of buying wine for his mom! My mil actually ended up thanking us for our thoughtfulness, wow, she is some head case.

As it turns out, even when we were with them, I managed to get my husband to agree that we would sneak off by ourselves. The little brother got stuck doing everything with them, so I'm sure they were happy. I told my husband that it's not normal to be spending that much time with his parents, afterall, we are married and they should have expected this. I know he didn't agree over everything I said, but he certainly must have agreed enough because he went along with it. I know I must have been right.

Finally the night before we are going to come home my hubby and I decide to be really sweet and take his parents to dinner to thank them for the trip. I was so bored at the restaurant but I kept thinking this is almost over. We got outside to leave and my fil wants to take a picture of his wife next to the sign at the restaurant. He seems to think he is some professional photographer or something, but I see that it isn't a good place where he is taking the picture. I tell him you don't want her to stand there, she should stand over by the other sign since it is way to bright where he wanted to do it. You would have thought that I just told him to strip naked in front of us all by the look on his face. He turns and tells my hubby something like "of course, what was I thinking, of course that's a better place to take the picture, what would I know," very smarty mouthed. I just ignored him since he and my mil always over react and have to have it there way.

The entire ride back in the car was terrible. My hubby's parents wouldn't talk, they just drove and looked straight ahead. What was there to have gotten as mad about as my fil did? Gee, I shouldn't give any advice since what do I know, I'm just their sons stupid wife.

We get back to the condo and my fil asks my hubby if he wants to go get a beer with he and the little brother. I can't believe it, they have to have us doing something with them every minute or they are just not happy. What, are they so miserable that they need us to entertain them? I was furious when I heard my hubby say yes, he would go. I gave him some credit cause he tried not to, but my fil with his own control issues, wouldn't let up.

My hubby knows that I was furious, so I go up to the bedroom without saying goodnight and close the door. Later that night or early morning he comes into bed. I couldn't believe he spent hours out having a beer with his dad, it just didn't make sense, but then everything was revealed. His dad had the nerve to take him out and corner him into why I was behaving the way I was? Fil wanted to know why I was so quiet, and moody? Fil wanted to know if there was something wrong that he and my mil should know about so that they aren't getting mad over something they shouldn't. My hubby gets mad now and tells him that he thought all of our disagreements with his wife were over, and that things were going better. I guess my fil looked surprised, but then pretended to nevermind, it was just a concern.

When my hubby told me this in the morning I was so angry that he even talked to his dad about us! I was also still angry that he went with him and left me behind in the condo with his mom! That's why I had to get up to bed so I wouldn't be told next that I had to watch some stupid tv show with her.

When my hubby left to go downstairs, I locked him out of the room because I was mad (rightfully so!) Now my hubby comes up to get me, and realizes he can't get in. Hubby starts talking with me, pleading with me to just forget it, it didn't mean anything and to please come out and not do this in front of his parents (you know, the saints!) I can't believe what happens next! Hubby's voice starts to crack like he is going to cry, and this just infuriates me even more since now his parents will be able to say I made him cry or something stupid like that. Still, I didn't budge since he had this coming big time.

I hear my hubby go back downstairs and now his mom and dad are talking loudly with him. I can really hear his mom having an arguement with hubby, so I get close to the door so I can hear. My mil is trying to tell him that I've never liked her, and he didn't live up to his end of the agreement about spending most of our time together. I can hear my hubby on the verge of crying, but then he starts yelling at his mom that he thought all of our differences were over, that we'd been getting along so well after the wedding (what planet does he live on?) Of course my controlling mil tells him that the only reason things have been going smoothly is that they never say anything negative, and haven't been interfering (as if!) I hear hubby take off out of the condo, so now I"m stuck in this room with both of my in laws downstairs, feeling justified that they are mad. God, if only they could just control every minute of every day, then maybe they'd be happy.

I hear my hubby return, and talk to his dad but I can't hear what is said cause they are purposefully talking quietly. Next thing I know there is someone knocking on my bedroom door, and it's my fil! My fil thinks that he is this perfect person who can make all things right (wrong!) My fil asks me if I'll come out and have coffee with him so we could talk. I'm thinking to myself no way am I going out to have coffee and get some pathetic lecture for things I did or didn't do according to their rules. Fil wouldn't take no for an answer so I finally tell him that I"ll go outside with him so he we can talk, but not go anywhere. He actually agrees (really letting down his control guard!) Outside he starts trying to talk to me all sweet and quiet and says he is just concerned over what is going on. I tell him nothing is going on, that I thought everything was just fine. Now he says that his son is almost in tears, that I've been quiet and moody the entire trip, and he needs to understand why. Finally I just tell him something that will make him shut up! I tell him that I"m just a quiet person, that this is just the way I am and that it isn't because of them (not!) My fil kept pushing, bringing up other things I had done in the past, even during the engagement. Well, I wasn't going to go there and be told what a wicked dil I am, so I just let him lecture, and then told him he must be overreacting since I don't know what he is talking about.

I can't believe it, but his parents actually offer to go home 2 days early, so that my hubby and I can be alone to work out our fight. My fil claims that he doesn't want to be part of why we weren't getting along, so they are going to pack and take another flight. Fil tells us that the little brother can stay and finish the vacation with us, that they will just leave. I think this is great, but then I look at my hubby who looks very upset and angry. I feel like I must be the mature one and solve the issues, so I tell him that no one is going to go home early, that me and their son are just fine, and we're going to spend the entire last day doing everything together. Well, knowing what a control freak my mil is, I was surprised she agreed with no stipulations. Once I said this, then they were all happy including my hubby. At least he didn't have anything to be mad at me about, which wasn't fair to begin with.

After we got home from Peurto Rico we barely talked. In fact, they didn't talk to us at our stopover much, we just sat and ate and it was so obvious that they were mad that they didn't get to have the trip just exactly as they ordered it to be.

I was so glad to be home, and I knew I would never go on another trip with these people who try to suffocate us by being with them all the time. My hubby was very upset, and needed me to continuously tell him that I am his wife, that his parents just can't except this, and they are jealous of my part in their sons life.

Of all the stupid things, my hubby's parents tell my hubby a week after we get back that from now on I have to call them Mr and Mrs! They said it's obviuos I don't respect them so I don't get the privilege of calling them by their first names. I don't know where this all came from, but there is no way I am going to call them mr or mrs, or mom and dad...ever! I convince my hubby how wrong this is, and he agrees they are being immature and controlling again.

Basically my hubby and his parents fight all summer, so we refused to come to his little brothers birthday party. If they can't accept who I am, and allow me to call them by the names I always addressed them by, then forget it.

By October we tried to get together once, but the entire breakfast was spent with my hubby's parents completely excluding me from the conversation! They sat right across from us in a booth, but do you think they cared that I was there! They were so rude, and so obviuosly trying to ignore me it isn't funny. My hubby of course didn't notice it until I told him all the times they excluded me, and then at least he was angry too.

A few days later my hubby called and told them we no longer want them in our lives. They went crazy and just showed up on our doorstep pleading for us to come out and talk. I went in the bedroom and told my hubby he can handle it, though I was very worried he couldn't do it. My hubby goes outside and talks with them on the front porch. I hear them yelling at each other, and his silly mother trying to guilt my hubby out by saying that she is his mom, why would he want to be out of their lives. My hubby does a good job of holding the line, and then I hear my fil ask if they can come in our home. My hubby tells them no, they cannot come in and I hear my fil start this pathetic voice like he was so sad his son won't let him in his house.

My controlling mil of course won't be told that she can't come in and wiggles by my hubby and goes in the kitchen! My hubby tells her she must leave, but she says not until they talk. My mil thinks everything can be resolved by talking, she just doesn't get it! My hubby tells her he is going to call the police to make us leave, and my mil unbelievably tells him to go ahead, call the police and tell them that your parents are in your home and won't leave. I hear him tell her this 3 times and still she won't leave. I decide it is going to have to be me once again to manage his parents, and to make them leave I walk out near the kitchen and my mil see's me. She is such a whacko job, right away she is so irrational and tells me to go back where I came from, that this is bewteen her son and them (as if! hello, I'm married to your son, it's about us now, not you!) I ignore her and open the front door and ask her by her first name to leave our home. SHe is so angry that I can see the blood boiling in her veins, and I don't know how she can justify being angry with me for asking her to leave my home. Right then she turns to me and calls me the B word! I couldn't believe my ears, she finally is calling me what I've told my hubby she has always thought about me all along! I look at my husband very angrily to which he immediately yells back at his mom that she is a F'ing B. It was so sweet, since she so had this coming. She could have just left when my hubby asked her to, but no she had to stay and try to resolve somethign that can't be fixed. My fil at least was trying to get her to leave the entire time, pulling on her arm, talking to her, but still she wouldn't go! But once my hubby said that to her, she starts balling and yelling that he is a Bstrd. God, she is so dramatic! My mil can never see the trouble she causes, and none of this had to happen if they would just leave us alone. His parents could just never learn that it's me and their son now, he is a grown man and no longer needs his parents attention.

My fil gets her to leave, and I hear her crying all the way to the elevator. Talk about a performance, I'm sure she thought my hubby would come running after her and make everything right by telling her he was leaving me. As if!

I wouldn't let my hubby apologize for what he called her. But then she sends me this fake email telling me that even though things were very hot, she was very wrong for calling me what she did, and she apologizes! Boo hoo, as if I'm going to acknowledge she sent me that fake apology! I'm never acknowledging her again if I can help it.

One thing I forgot is that there was a reason I was a bit moody on our trip, and that is that I thought I had a miscarriage. When my hubby explained this to his mom after the trip was over, she asks all these idiot questions as if she doesn't believe my story. My mil has the nerve to ask her son how late I was, why I didn't go to a dr., why we didn't tell them, were we trying to have a baby, and why I didn't cheer up since I didn't want to be pregnant anyway. Yeah, she is this great lady but blurts out all these awful questions and accusations!

A week after our fall out, she write a 3 page letter of everything she can think of to complain about what I've done, even back to just meeting her son. SHe tells my hubby that he doesn't stand up to me, that perhaps my story of possibly having a miscarriage was a ruse! She probably thought I wouldn't know what that meant however that did it, when I read her letter accusing me that just because I found out I didn't have a miscarriage, that I was making the whole thing up, well that sealed their fate. I don't need that type of attitude, I don't have to justify my feelings or actions to them. IMagine being told by your mil that you might be lying about thinking you were pregnant? She states that that maybe it was just an excuse for my moodiness, and really I don't like being around them. Well, she got that right about not liking being around their controlling and manipulative actions. She tells my hubby that there were so many things I could've done if I was worried I had been pregnant and lost it. Then my hubby comes to me asking why I didn't do a pregnancy test, why I didn't call the dr., why I didn't ask to go to the ER, why I didn't talk to his mom since she would've been able to help me. I looked at him and told him that he was letting his parents twist the entire thing out of proportion. I repeated to him that I thought I was pregnant and it was very upsetting, afterall my mother had 2 miscarriages before she could get pregnant. Hubby knows that this has always been a fear of mine. My mil thought can't understand how I could be one day late (when I am always on time,) and be worried I was pregnant? Then when I get it, and it's different then usual, I pretty much know that it is a sign of having a miscarriage. I also tell him that I think I saw something in my bleeding, like tissue, to which he finally believes that perhaps I was pregnant and miscarrying.

My mil then has to stick in her two cents once again and ask when I found out I wasn't pregnant, to which my hubby should've told her it was none of her business! Still, he tells her not until we got home from the trip. She can't stop at that, she has to go on interrogating him and asks who I talked to when I got home, and if I went to the dr. My hubby answers the question like a good mommy's boy, and tells her that I called someone and found out. This of course wasn't good enough for her, or at least this is what he told me. Hubby could tell she thought he was making it up, but she finally just hung up the phone and amazingly didn't ask anymore of her nosey questions.

So, right now we have not seen my mil for 9 months! My hubby will get weak and start saying he wants to try and resolve things, and I ask him why, so that things can be the way they were again? I tell him she won't change, and neither will his father, so does he want to continue being treated the way we were? I told him that my hubby is his father's puppet on a string, and that his dad is happy as long as he is in control of his son, just like his mom!

There is way more to this story, but I gotta go, so I"ll have to write later.

Becky


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Holy cow! She just dug the hole even deeper! Becky, you'd better quit before you get even further behind.

As others have said, it's hard to believe that people like you exist and that you are not coming here just to stir the pot. You're either a troll as Bloobird suggests or someone who really, really needs a great deal of help. If you are for real, stop posting here and GO GET SOME HELP!!!!

And if your husband chooses to remain married to you, please, please, please don't have any children. They don't stand a chance.

Stephanie, I'm not going to address Sirens again. She doesn't want to understand and its not worth my time.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

WOW, just WOW!!!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Becky and her stories cannot possibly be real. I'm more and more convinced that she stays awake at night thinking up stories of what would be outrageous daughter-in-law behavior (or outrageous PERSON behavior, at that!) just to get us going. Regarding this supposed mother-in-law that she has? Give ME that mother-in-law! She sounds like a perfect gem!

Becky, please 'fess up and tell us you're not for real. You're scaring us.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I'm done, Becky. So done. It is getting so deep, and I don't have a shovel. You either need a therapist or a creative writing class. If you are for real, you need the therapist (get a phsychologist, one who can prescribe something). If you are trying out your writing skills on us, don't quit your day job. While you have solid skills in writing conventions, you lack cohesiveness in your plot line. Either way, your biggest weakness is character development. It's really hard to believe anyone over age 12 would behave so selfishly.

Good plan, fuzzywuzzy. You'll be a happier person. I hope you read my tone as light, friendly.

How are things for pinkpeonies, the OP whose thread was hijacked? Sorry about that!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloobird and fuzzywuzzy,
I agree with both of you. I especially liked this from bloobird:

"Then again, IMHO, Becky's posts are just proof that not all Trolls live under bridges waiting for little goats to clip clop over. (You know, like, totally.)"

That is pretty funny! LOL I also think this is sage advice from fuzzy:

"And if your husband chooses to remain married to you, please, please, please don't have any children. They don't stand a chance."

I really think this person is not for real and I just don't think it's worth my time or effort to respond to her anymore. If she were for real, I would think she would have made SOME response to my previous very lengthy post or the other posts from stephanie, khandi, sirens and sweepersmom. It's not natural to not address the many issues that were brought to her attention, and to just continue on with more trumped up situations. As fuzzy stated, why would she continue to dig the hole even deeper?


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wrong word

phsycoTRIST, that's the one who can prescribe something. I knew that. ;o)


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

If your story is for real, I would have taken your return ticket and left you in Puerto Rico!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I am tempted to say that this is made up. troll. phoney. spam. somebody makes stuff up to stir the pot here. not real.

at the same time I remember having neigbours awhile ago. This couple lived in DH's parents' house and DIL was so awfully horrible to her in-laws. She ended up beating her MIL and giving her bruises. they were the nicest elderly couple. DIl used to go in a neighbourhood talking bad about in-laws. now listen to this DIL was a phsyciian. so i am not talking about some ignorant people- but educated ones. the only person who stood up and defended poor elderly in-laws was DH's older brother. Needless to say eventually this guy divorced his wife. no surprises here.

so there are some awful people out there. could easily be a real story.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Well, I should be offended that you think my stories are made up! As if I don't have better things to do then create false stories regarding me and my controlling mil.

It's funny that one of you recommended a therapist/counselor since this is something my mil most recently put out an offer for. This woman has been desperately trying to get us back in their lives even after what her son said to her. She left us a message months back stating that she has ideas of how we can put everything behind us, accept all of us for who we are, and just move forward and not discuss any of the past hurts. I got a chuckle out of that one, but I think my hubby took it a bit serious. His attitude did't last long however, since then I reminded him of all the interfering things she had done, and how she didn't want us to run our wedding the way we wanted it done.

Anyway, some time ago my mil calls and talks to my hubby and says she is concerned that if we are to resolve this, that we won't be able to do it ourselves. So she gets my hubby to agree to think and talk about going to a family therapist, ALL of us together! My mil is so desperate that she is even willing for them to pay for the treatment!

I made my hubby wait over a week to call her back on it, and then I had him call her on her cell phone because he was afraid to tell her no person to person. She hardly ever hears her cell phone, so it was a very good bet she wouldn't answer and he could leave a message. Well, it worked perfectly for him. I told him what to say and how to say it since he desperately needs help in this area. Hubby left a nice message thanking her for the offer but letting her know we are not ready at this time. I told him to tell her that we aren't saying no, just not now. Otherwise I doubt she'd quit harassing us to go, or she'd read us another riot act because we turned her down and she makes the rules.

I told my hubby when she made this offer that there is nothing wrong with me, and I'm not going to a therapist who is going to sit down and criticize the way I behave, or worse, give us ways to change our interactions with each other. I'm not falling for this psycho babble. I told him to leave on the message that if his mom and dad want to go to therapy he encoruages it. I feel it is them that need to adjust to us, and our married situation, not the other way around. I was happy that my hubby remembered to say that in his message. He told his mom she could call him back if she wanted, or he'd call her at some later date. Well, miss control didn't call back so I guess she got the message that perhaps she is the one who needs help, or at least we think so.

I realize after reading some of the posts (since there are so many, I just skimmed them all,) that people think I'm not giving my mil a chance, and oh how my mil sounds so nice. Please...you don't know the situation, you only know portions of it. You weren't there for the christmas card thing, yet you all know that I was over-reacting? My mil conned us into letting her send a card for us, when she told her son that that wasn't what she was doing. It was just a way for her to be in control, and take the reins. She can claim innocence but I know better.

I teach high school kids, and I'm very savvy with people in general. I have a great reputation as an educator, even though I'm barely out of college. The faculty and principal all respect me and my methods. I devoted so much time and energy to my teaching certificate, I really take it very seriously.

nataliehope, you state that "You get upset because two people are talking during "your" event". Your so wrong, I wasn't upset that they were talking because it was my shower, I was upset because they were arguing at my shower, and she could't step in and control them given the situation. Yes, my shower was important and I did think people should be paying attention. I always pay attention at the showers I've been to, and this is my mil's friends! She did't take control because it wasn't important to her, but had her little boy been the one up there doing it, it would have been a different story!

Stephanie, you state that loving a wife doesn't mean he has to quit loving his mother or honoring her. See, that's what I don't get. What is with this honor thing? It must be an older generation thing. One gets what they deserve in life, and why should I honor his mom? I can't even respect the woman, and just because she is his mother means nothing to me. So she got lucky and he turned out to be a very nice guy, who doesn't try to control things.

I don't know who said that I couldn't meet my mil one on one but that is so stupid! I didn't have to bring my friend with me, she wanted to come. She had heard about my mil from me and thought it would be a good idea if she came to witness the talk so that my mil couldn't make things up that weren't true. I agreed with my friend and brought her along for that reason only.

I guess I don't see why so many of you don't believe someone 'like me' can exist when I so plainly do. You know my friends all agree with me, but I thought I'd get someone elses opinion since I'm so open minded. My mom agrees with me completely about my mil, and she knew it almost as soon as she met her. My mom has been instrumental in helping me handle this woman. My dad hardly ever see's or visits his mom, since now his family is my mom and kids. She lives in another state, so maybe this makes it easier for him to ignore her, or to move on in his life with his own family.

I don't know if I will continue writing here, since so far none of you have seemed to relate, and have gotten very mean with your statements to me. I think it has to be your generation, since all the people who are my age think that my hubby's families involvement is way over the top! We are married, we have our own friends now, we are not their little kids anymore. I hardly see my parents and I'm a woman! If I can get by, then certainly my macho hubby can handle it? I'm sure my mil is just having empty nest or something, but she has to get over it, and I'm helping her adjust to the change that she must face.

Becky


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do not feed the troll.

People, "Becky" is a TROLL. A T-R-O-L-L. It is NOT REAL. "BECKY" and the entire "story" they are posting is FAKE.

Read the Becky "story" again; this poster is pulling bits and pieces out of outer people's posts, changing details, and writing as though they were some DIL from h3ll. I agree, they ARE an awful person, but they are NOT the person they are pretending to be.

"She" is here either to make fun of several people who have posted here writing about how they can't seem to get along with their DIL/Son's girlfriend, or perhaps "she" is a MIL pretending to be someone they are not so they can watch everyone "scold" the evil DIL. Either way, it is a complete crock of sh!t.

As an aside, I wonder wonder whose ISP is going to show up as the author of the "Becky" posts? Yes you pathetic little Troll, you can be tracked on good old GW. Like they say in that George Clooney movie "You're exposed!"

Now, go change your pants "Becky". You're starting to stink up the forum.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Becky, don't you even realize by your own posts that it's all "I", "I", "I". You're always telling your husband what to say to his mother. Is he a wimp? Doesn't sound like a man to me!

You keep complaining that she's always trying to control things when you're the one who does the controlling. I don't understand how you can't see that!

Also sounds like you're just like your mother.

You have NO CLUE what family is all about. I hope you don't have kids cuz then there will be more DILs just like you!


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Bottom feeding troll

"I guess I don't see why so many of you don't believe someone 'like me' can exist when I so plainly do."

Oh, I have no doubt you "exist", even if you are full of BS. Why you aren't using your regular ID?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Well, more meaningless responses. Perhaps I don't use my real id because I don't want my mil seeing things I write. Even if she is uneducated, she is very sneaky with the computer, and seems to excel at doing searches. She has bored me with all the things she can find on the internet, even about people. This gave me a heads up before I decided to post on this forum.

If you don't believe my story, ask me to go into more detail any of the events I've stated. If it's a lie, I doubt I'd be able to it so that it all matched up. Everything I've told you on here is true, and I really don't know why I'm worried about my mil reading it, since I dont care. I just don't want my hubby getting anymore grief from her about what I've said now.

Becky


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I Think I've Figured Out Who Becky Is

Hey all,
There were some things about Becky's posts that sounded familiar to me - like I had read some of the situations she talked about before. So I decided to go back and re-read the Estrangement threads, and I came up with something I thought everyone might be interested in knowing about. Here are a few passages I clipped from posts that were made by anniebal. I think you might be surprised at the similarities between their stories:

RE: For discussion of parent/child estrangements (Follow-Up #122)
posted by: anniebal on 05.27.2008 at 12:04 am in Parents Forum
For a year, my dil was very cool to my son when she came over or was with us. She wouldn't greet him, and rarely if ever talked to him unless forced to. When we had a heart to heart talk before the wedding (which was brought on by my dil sending the rehearsal dinner invites out w/o consulting me, when she knew I wanted to send them.) I think my son told her she had to come over and discuss our differences so we could get along

While talking (which was mostly me,) I asked her why she'd been giving my youngest son the cold shoulder. What she told me, I will never forget! My dil stated that she was 'teaching him a lesson!' I was astounded, and followed up with 'teaching him a lesson for what?' She told me she was teaching him a lesson that his girlfriend was wrong for him!!!! I asked her if she thought my son understood what she was doing, if he got the message? My dil replied that "yes he got the message, afterall, he isn't dating her anymore, is he?" Now that really takes the cake, doesn't it?

Here is another passage:

RE: Continuing discussion on estrangements (Follow-Up #65)
posted by: anniebal on 01.15.2008 at 01:14 am in Parents Forum
They gave me so many people I could invite, & told me to go 10-15% over that amount for no shows. Yet when we did that, I received a call from my son asking me why I was inviting people he didn't know! These were first cousins of mine that I never get to see anymore except at weddings and funerals, but he just didn't get it (or should I say his wife?) I had to change my list and take a cousin off that was very kind to my father while he was alive. My son knew this too but it didn't matter.

And another:

RE: For discussion of parent/child estrangements (Follow-Up #79)
posted by: anniebal on 03.19.2008 at 02:45 am in Parents Forum
Even regarding the rehearsal dinner which was our big contribution, my dil made all sorts of demands that we gave in to to keep the peace. I'm not sure that was a healthy way to do things either, since it just gave her a stronger sense of power in controlling us. I made it clear to my dil that I wanted to pick out the invitations to the rehearsal dinner since that was my only big role, and yet she slyly pretended not to get my message and didn't contact me until she had sent them out! My son had told her this too, which is the real conflict in her story. All I did was tell my son how disappointed I was that I didn't get to do at least one personal thing for his wedding, that was in fact mine to do.

More passages:

RE: Continuing discussion on estrangements (Follow-Up #9)
posted by: anniebal on 12.23.2007 at 04:10 pm in Parents Forum
Just like you, we didn't have many if any say in the wedding, even the part we paid for exclusively such as the rehearsal dinner! I didn't even get to send out invitations to the rehearsal dinner since she went behind my back and did it herself and then claimed she didn't know. I knew she was told because my son told me so, yet when I talked to my son about it he offered up a stupid excuse stating she didn't get my phone message! He had told her this himself I know.

For some of my first cousin on the wedding list, I had to eliminate because I went over my alotted amount. However, we had told them one can go over by about 10% to account for people who wouldn't come. It didn't matter, I had to remove them mostly because my son stated he didn't know who they were. Even though I explained that this was my list, and that the people on it were my first cousins and the only way one see's these people later in life is at weddings and funerals(unfortunately).

And some more from the same post:

Right before the wedding my son went to see my younger son at college and told him he was going to break up and wanted to know what his brother thought. My younger son told him he thought it was the right decision, and one of the things he told my older son is that no one he knows does not get along with mom and dad. My younger son told him what to expect when he got back and told her he was breaking up. He told him that she'll cry and carry on, that she'll make promises, etc.etc. so that my older son (with less experience,) would be more prepared. Well, when my son got home and went to my now DILs house, she was waiting with a phone book open of marriage counselors they could go to to resolve any issues. She promised him that would go to counseling and that their marriage was right and could be worked out.

Some more:

RE: Continuing discussion on estrangements (Follow-Up #114)
posted by: anniebal on 03.02.2008 at 03:40 pm in Parents Forum
IF you read my posts, you would know I have never said anything negative to my son or DIL to their face other than the night my son and husband and I had a blow up and I out of complete irrational angry behavior called my DIL a bad word. However, my son replied with an even worse bad name to his mother, for which he has never genuinely apologized for.

And finally, this one:

njrealtor, obviously you didn't read the whole book (Follow-Up #15)
posted by: anniebal on 12.26.2007 at 12:03 am in Parents Forum
njrealtor, first off I feel you are being very judgmental without having read the entire book I wrote. I stated that we changed the rules to her calling us by our first names after she ruined a $6000 vacation. However, after a summer of arguing and getting nowhere, I told my husband that this was a bad idea and that I was telling my son she could call us whatever she wanted.
You sound young, and obviously would have a problem if your in laws requested that you call them either Mr & Mrs or Mom or Dad, or Mom M, or Dad M? Tell me honestly that if your in laws preferred you address them this way that you wouldn't do it just to appease them?

Now, am I the only one who finds the similarities between Becky's and annibal's stories to be too much alike to be merely coincidental? What do you think?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Has your husband read these posts? I'd like to know how he responds to the way you've talked about him. Called him a little boy, mommy's boy, bragged about what you "made" him say or do or understand. Wow. Show him what you've written and how others have responded. Might be a big eye opener for him.

Honor: honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions (source: dictionary.com)

See, it doesn't mean worship, or bow down to. One honors their mother/father by remembering special days, small gestures of gratitude for having provided a good upbringing; also making their well-being (emotionally and physically) a concern (not the only concern, but on the radar screen).

So honesty, stop lying or deceiving them. Fairness, stop judging every little move she makes and every word she speaks, looking for the insult that isn't even there. Integrity, behaving in a way that makes you proud of yourself. You do talk like you are proud of your behavior, but I hope the day come when you see clearly that this is not becoming behavior for any one.

It's not a generational difference between us. I am 37. I also have a teaching degree, high school English. But I sacraficed the last 15 years of that to raise my children (worth every single minute of it). I have a MIL, one I've known for 22 years, we've had our ups and downs. But the absolute bottom line for me is she is my husband's mother. I love, honor and respect my husband. I care deeply about how my actions affect his feelings. Therefore I honor - deal with her with honesty, fairness, and integrity- the woman who raised him. He knows she can get under my skin, but I know that if I act on it I cause him a lot of stress. I do not need to win a contest with my MIL to win my husband's love. I want him remember where he came from, a person needs those roots in life. I would never cut him off from those roots.

Do you really want to have a peaceful relationship with your MIL? Is there anything you have done that you regret? Do you see anything about your behavior that you would change? Aside from cutting MIL out of your life, have you thought about what you could do to make some changes in this situation? It really is not "normal" to stop visiting with one's mother/father just because of marriage. You've heard that from all of us here. Do you think we're all just nuts? Pushing a spouse to do that is a controlling thing to do. We've all said that. Do you think we all just failed to teach our husbands the right way?

Good luck to you Becky. I'm sorry you didn't find the sympathy you were looking for here. But I think everyone was straight with you. You might not have heard what you wanted to hear, but you got the truth as we see it, which might be more helpful in the end. I hope you think it over and try to approach things differently with you MIL, and that you continue in your marriage with more respect for you husband.

Darn it, I said I was done, and I wrote again. Am I wasting my time, or are you thinking about any of this?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Hmmmm, you know, I was just thinking, "We haven't seen that Annieball around since, oh, since that thread on estrangements was removed." I wonder how everything is going for her up there in Illinois?

"Now, am I the only one who finds the similarities between Becky's and annibal's stories to be too much alike to be merely coincidental? What do you think?"

Just check the ISP; the numbers don't lie.


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omg

oh, natalie! You did a lot of work. You go girl!

Becky... anniebell... you got some 'splaining to doooo!!!

Now I really am done. LOL.


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ip address?

bloobird, how do you check an ip address? (I need to learn something new every day.)


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If you don't believe my story,

Oh, I believe it, just not that it happened the way you're claiming it did. You know, the saddest thing was this offhand comment annie, er, uh, becky tossed out about that ruined vacation:

"One thing I forgot is that there was a reason I was a bit moody on our trip, and that is that I thought I had a miscarriage. When my hubby explained this to his mom after the trip was over, she asks all these idiot questions as if she doesn't believe my story. My mil has the nerve to ask her son how late I was, why I didn't go to a dr., why we didn't tell them, were we trying to have a baby, and why I didn't cheer up since I didn't want to be pregnant anyway."

So the truth finally comes out. Your DIL had a miscarriage, they have lost their first child, (your first grandchild) and you are still whining about the wedding and your vacation and how she didn't come and stand next to you at the airport? I've been reading THS and GW for years, but I have to say that is the most shallow thing I have ever seen anyone write on these forums. I believe this makes you the new Toxic Queen.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Stephanie, I'm already a happy person, quite content with my life. I do get riled up sometimes, however, as I have the knowledge (and experience) that allows me to quickly get to the core of what is written, to read between the lines, to know from where one is coming with their posts.

Last night, it occurred to me that there is a resemblance between Becky's "stories" and Anniebal, including the length of the posts and the times of posting.

That having been said, the similarities in true estrangement issues are simply amazing. I've read more than one narrative that included a family trip with a DIL that has gone oh so wrong. There are many similarities in estrangements where daughters are married to controlling men. Indeed, what I find quite fascinating about estrangements are the similarities between and among them.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

LOL.

Was it not obvious to most that A was a little "off" from the beginning?

Be careful who you keep company with. People who spew nonstop anger tend to be a bit imbalanced. Now she makes her colleagues look foolish - good reason to sit back, take stock, and make changes in life.


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so what is the deal?

so did Anniebal made up Becky and her posts to justify estrangement? to portray how awful is her DIL? she pretended to be her own DIL so we can all atack vicious DIL? what is the deal? is it all made up by MIL? or anniebal just wanted us to see the same story from a different perspective? or this whole story was made up from the beginning/ there are no MIl or DIL no wedding no trips no miscarriages, just made up stuff?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

finedreams,
These are all good questions - and the same ones I've been asking myself. Why would someone do such a thing? People on this forum have always genuinely responded to anniebal's/Becky's posts and offered help, opinions, and thoughts in a sincere manner. Though they may not have always agreed with her/them, I felt that they were always on the level and genuine with their responses. I am disgusted that someone would take advantage of other people and prey upon their sympathies in such a manner. We took time out of our busy lives to sincerely respond to someone who most probably made up everything that was written. It really makes a person cynical, and to want to think twice before making an effort to repond so quickly to posts from people we don't know. How sad that this person had to stoop to such a low level just to get her/his jollies!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

FWIW, I think she is real, I think she's really estranged from her son, and sadly, I think she really does blame it on her DIL because of course, she could never, ever be wrong. About anything.

I think the Becky posts were her way of projecting the flippant personal attitude she has toward others onto her DIL. Because she is controling, conniving and manipulative, she assigns an ulterior motive to every little real or imagined slight. Nothing is ever forgotten or forgiven, so it no doubt gave her a wonderful rush to post the minute detail of what she sees as years of grief she's been getting from this young woman who dared take her place.

Is she ill? I have a feeling she is a functioning sociopath, but not "mentally ill" in the sense that should you ever meet her in real life you would automatically think "This woman is nuts". She's just one of those people who would rather be "right" than happy no matter who or what has to be destroyed to get her way. Can you imagine what a lifetime of living with someone like that must be like?

Is she sorry? No, she's only sorry that she got caught. Remember, once she knew she'd been "discovered", she posted yet again trying to justify her deception. I'm sure it made her very happy to see people finally taking "her" side and "advising" and scolding her Horrible DIL, or more accurately, her own hateful attitude that she had projected onto her DIL to get everyone worked up.

But I wouldn't worry too much about Annie, she may be down, but she's not out. Think of the guy handing out the lit torches as the towns people gather to confront the monster; being the instigator behind the mob has got to be a pretty powerful rush. I expect she'll sign up with yet another user ID and post again.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I "kinda" disagree with you Bloobird on the mental illness issue: sociopathy is a mental illness, a personality disorder. If Becky and Anniebel are the same person, she is mentally ill and can't help herself; it takes a real crisis to get these people into treatment. I feel truly sorry for her because she can't be happy and she must be wreaking havoc in the lives of everyone she encounters.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Um, wren, sparrow, blue jay, robin, oops, I mean, bloobird (sorry, birds are all the same to me)...projecting is something I've seen in many posts, I probably even do it myself. We are all expert armchair analysts on this website, so I'm sure we all understand each other. Projecting is one of our favorite things to do. Words like "manipulative" and "mentally ill" can usually be applied in spades to the person using them, don't you agree? This is just an objective observation, you understand.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I've been reading but not participating.

I'd like to point out a few things that some of you are not taking into account regarding recent posts on this board.

Many of you were appalled at the behavior of Becky when you thought she was the DIL from hell. Rightfully appalled.

You castigated Becky.

Then you realized that it might not be the DIL who was posting. So most of you turned on her as though she had made it all up. Some of you chose to believe that the dil was actually pregnant and had miscarried and then tried to shame the mil.

You then call the poster a liar, choosing to believe that a dil whose existence you question had had a miscarriage, ignoring the possibility, the real possibility, that a real dil lied in order to get sympathy and how horrendous that would be if someone lied about such a thing. If she had miscarried, the husband would have known at the time. This is not something he would have learned later. If he had learned it later, that would have been very strange indeed. From the things that the dil had done previously. lying seems to fit right in. Especially when the lie was told at a time when a lie was most needed to explain away things that were done.

Does anyone here see how someone might feel when they come to a board like this and they talk about their feelings about the loss of their child and then they are attacked? Some of you call the poster mentally ill. Really? You can't see that someone could be so frustrated at not being able to get their point across that they would try another avenue to make their point?

So what changed from when you thought that Becky was the DIL from hell? The facts may be the same. Becky may exist. Everything that was described including lying about a miscarriage may be pretty close to what happened. You were appalled. Now you are no longer appalled. Why" Because you think that the poster wasn't telling the truth. Why do you think it isn't the truth? Maybe the fact that it is the truth is why the person did what she did! But now she is the villain?

Before you all go pointing fingers at her or anyone else about being mentally ill because someone would resort to deception to get a point across, I would like to point out something to you all. There are several people here who are posting under several names. You know who you are. I know who some of you are but there are undoubtedly more that are doing it than I have figured out. If anyone pays close attention, they will figure it out too.

I have a question for those of you who are so self righteous and outraged that anyone would post here and play a different role than their real persona. What if magic granny is not ninety and not a granny? What if magic granny is one of you? What then? Is magic granny still marvelous or not? Or are you going to call her mentally ill too? Are you going to be outraged at the deception? Or is it only mothers who are much less than ninety and who are in pain for whom you reserve your condemnation? They never get a break, do they?

What about those of you who are posting under multiple names? How is it that some of you who are posting under multiple names find it so easy to throw stones? I also know that some of you who are posting under multiple names are sympathetic. So I am not criticizing anyone for using multiple names and posting here. I am saying that those of you who are doing it and then are giving someone else a hard time are being hypocritical.

For those of you who find it about as easy as breathing to put down despairing mothers whenever you catch the scent of anguish, you are behaving like sharks circling the prey. You smell blood and you attack. It is disgusting.

From the way things have been going here in recent months, this board is becoming more and more like the Family Rifts group. That is really sad. Because there aren't many places for mothers to discuss their pain of loss in public groups like this. This used to be a much gentler kinder place. Some are coming here apparently to cause others more pain than they already have. Then they get surprised and angry because one of their prey does something that they didn't expect.

I say, "Bravo!! to the person who wrote the Becky posts! It's a big improvement over the attempts to appease and get understanding from the sharks.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Bravo, anonymous!!!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Thank you!

Who was it that said, you can say anything you want about me but be sure to spell my name right?

Proudly Amomymous


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I understand that unless they write fiction for a living, most people are only able to speak from the standpoint of what they know, thus MOL "projecting" their experience into their replies. That is not what the author of the Becky posts was doing.

I'm not sure why you'd question those "Becky" posts are manipulative, as the author's clear intent was to use the sympathy and concern of others for her own advantage. Look at how many people believed that she really was this self centered, superficial, controllng young woman, and in spite of that, offered their heartfelt advice. In a way, the "Becky" posts have eroded some of their trust.

As long as someone isn't posting with more than one user ID in a forum, or using a different ID to be deceitful and hurtful, then I don't see how having more than one user ID is a big deal.

But, (and this is important), using a different user ID in order to deliberately fool someone else is being deceitful. The posts were written to give people a false impression of another person. That is lying, pure and simple, and you can't sugar coat it or rationalize it away. If the poster was called a liar, it's because they were caught lying.

As for projecting, since she's not here to speak for herself, we really don't know what the DIL is like, but thanks to her own writing, we know that particular poster is capable of being controlling, glib, and self entitled, (not to mention a liar), which just so happen to be the very same things they have been accusing someone else of. This is just an objective observation, you understand.

"You can't see that someone could be so frustrated at not being able to get their point across that they would try another avenue to make their point?"

Like I said, this is a person who would rather be "right" than happy, no matter what they have to do or who they have to tear down. If the poster is so genuinely frustrated and heartbroken at the estrangement, why are they wasting time lying to complete strangers to get a "point" across rather than trying "another avenue" like a different therapist or a pastor/priest - and keep trying until they can repair that relationship? I can't help but wonder if maybe because it's not really about the loss of the person from their life, but the loss of control?

I am a parent myself, and I will tell you it is mighty hard to muster sympathy for someone with so much venom in their heart that they would write something about their DIL like "...why I didn't cheer up since I didn't want to be pregnant anyway." Since we KNOW the DIL didn't write it, why should anyone believe that ever happened at all, or that it was the callous attitude of anyone other than the person who wrote the post? That's what happens when you get caught lying; everything you say is suspect.

"What if magic granny is not ninety and not a granny? What if magic granny is one of you? What then? Is magic granny still marvelous or not?"
"one of you"? What does that mean? When did we choose up sides like grade schoolers?
Haven't you figured out that unless you are required to list your real name on an internet forum, it's not WHAT NAME you use but WHAT YOU SAY that is important. If tomorrow I discovered that Magicgran is not a 90 year old woman, but a mere teenage boy of 15, it would not change the fact that s/he has not written one word that is disrespectful, or unkind, or anything other than helpful. The day Magicgran starts impersonating someone else in order to tear them down, then I will have lost all respect for her, just as I no longer have respect for the author of the "Becky" posts.

"there aren't many places for mothers to discuss their pain of loss in public groups like this."
By "discuss" do you mean posting like an adult who is trying to make sense of life and discovering how to cope with the permanent changes you're facing as your family dynamics shift by becoming a better parent/child/sibling/friend, or do you mean moving in an alternating cycle of self pity and venom, resorting to childish theatrics and outright lying if you don't agree with what someone has written? There are plenty of places for the former, absolutely none that I am aware of for the latter. Not on the internet, not in real life. Wonder why that is?

"I say, "Bravo!! to the person who wrote the Becky posts! It's a big improvement over the attempts to appease and get understanding from the sharks."
I'm curious: in your opinion, is the purpose of discussing an estrangement to try to gain wisdom and insight on how to improve the relationship, or get "understanding" (you mean like, sympathy?) from complete strangers?
Which is more likely to make you happy?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I am a bit mindboggled by all this reading, the pros and cons for Becky, but I have to say that as I was reading Becky's blog it was as if my own dil was writing it. Oh, we never went on a trip or I haven't a clue whether or not they are even trying to get pregnant, but my dil was unbelievably demanding as their wedding came closer (would spend no time with us to get to know the parents of her future husband, but demanded, yes, demanded, money and more money, my son never said or asked for anything. Now because I/we didn't give in to her every whim, our son will no longer speak to us. Some friends ran into them and the guy's comment was "whoa, it is sure obvious who wears the pants in that family!" And they haven't even been married a year.

So - whether or not Becky is writing for Becky or someone else, I felt the sting of a self-centered, self-rightous, all-about-me (and very insecure) young lady.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloo,

You have lied in the post you wrote. But, since it is ostensibly not to hurt anyone, in your mind it is okay. I won't point out the particular lie as you know when you lie. I don't need to point it out.

I am curious what you think you are doing here. To gain wisdom and insight to improve a relationship? To get understanding? To get sympathy? To vent? To stalk someone? You have claimed elsewhere, not here but elsewhere, that you are happy. How happy can you be to be doing what you are doing? You do not sound happy. You sound bitter, mean, angry, and, at times, sadistic.

As for the purpose of anyone discussing estrangement, that varies with the person. Speaking for myself, I have not been discussing it much for a while because I accept the estrangements in my life. Overall I am a happy person. Discussing estrangement won't change anything for me and right now I am happy with the way that things are. In fact, when I think of the alternative, I am aware that things could be very different and I could be in an ongoing stressful relationship with someone who is bitter, angry, manipulative, controlling, self centered, and delusional and who projects their own feelings onto others rather than owning them. I feel badly for that person and concerned but it is out of my hands. It is up to them to get help. I could say that I wish that those who were closer to them than I am would have an intervention with them and get them to get help. But it is out of my hands.

So how about you share with us all what you are doing here, bloo? Protecting the world from anguished mothers? This is your mission now? To try to control what anguished mothers do on internet discussion boards?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I am a MIL who was outraged after reading the antics that the supposed "Becky" person was acting out upon her MIL. I was especially shocked at the absolute callous way she described her "feelings" toward her MIL. I then found out the whole thing was a lie. Yes, a lie. As bloobird stated:

"But, (and this is important), using a different user ID in order to deliberately fool someone else is being deceitful. The posts were written to give people a false impression of another person. That is lying, pure and simple, and you can't sugar coat it or rationalize it away. If the poster was called a liar, it's because they were caught lying."

After discovering this lie I felt betrayed, and foolish for believing "Becky's" story and for taking my time and effort to respond. I am someone who sympathizes with MILs who are treated disrespectfully by their DILs/SILs. When I discovered this shameful deception by "Becky" it made me want to sympathize with the DILs/SILs. In my opinion, her tactic (pretending to BE the DIL) was underhanded and sneaky - the same thing she was accusing her DIL of doing. By doing this she played right into the hands of the so called "sharks" and set us MILs back - not forward. Speaking for myself, I know that I am quite capable of standing on my own and defending my own posts against those who disagree with me without having to resort to using "another avenue" (impersonating my DIL) to make my point. I would rather take my chances with those who might disagree with me any day rather than resort to using such underhanded tactics in order to gain sympathy. Unlike "Becky" I am aware that this is a public forum and there are many people who do not share my opinions and beliefs. I realize some will agree with me and some will not. This is not a forum for "Stepford" people. I do not have to have 100% compliance.

Also, just to be clear, anniebal had many supporters who backed her up in the Estrangement threads. She was not some poor, pitiful, misunderstoond MIL that was "attacked" every time she posted. Go back and read the posts for yourself. There were many posters that she cooresponded with who sympathized with her and responded in a positive manner to her. There were even discussions of possibly getting together with some of these posters to further discuss their similar stories. Just because not EVERYONE agreed with her does not give her the right to impersonize her DIL in order to get the ones who disagreed with her to change their minds by "seeing" the cold, callous way the DIL plotted her moves. She has no way of getting into her DIL's mind and describing her feelings. She does NOT have the right to say what another person is feeling or thinking. She can describe their actions but NOT their thoughts and feelings. I find it difficult to believe that someone could be so presumptuous as to think they KNOW what another person's thoughts and feelings are. She crossed the line when she chose to deceive others by "becoming" the DIL and then proceeding to proclaim the DILs thoughts and feelings in long, elaborate deceptive posts.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I read these estrangement posts to gain insight that might be helpful in keeping my own DH on good terms with his parents. I post to reach out and help, when I think I might have some useful insight to offer, or just to share in a light, friendly way.

I don't care who Becky/Anniebal is, or what motivated her role play game here. (Because I am convinced the posts came from the same source.) I read back over my own posts and I haven't behaved in a way that I regret.

If I was duped at first, so be it, no harm done to me. Not even my pride. I still spoke with compassion and wisdom (if I do say so myself LOL), not with any hard feelings. If not Becky, maybe someone unknown read something helpful.

The drama of the whole thing is not worth getting my panties in a wad, not worth one point rise in my blood pressure. ;o) It just doesn't matter.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

natalie wrote: "I find it difficult to believe that someone could be so presumptuous as to think they KNOW what another person's thoughts and feelings are."

That's true. It is presumptuous. Which is not a crime. Or if it is a crime, then there would be a whole lot of women in these forums who would have to be arrested for their daily presumptions about their relatives.

If you are angry at Becky for her presumptuousness, then where is your anger at the others who are presumptuous about their relatives every day here? Who talk like they know exactly what is in the hearts and minds of their relatives? Do they have that right to talk that way while you believe that Becky does not?

why is it that you have much less anger at those who offer their presumptions in a different form?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"If you are angry at Becky for her presumptuousness, then where is your anger at the others who are presumptuous about their relatives every day here? Who talk like they know exactly what is in the hearts and minds of their relatives? Do they have that right to talk that way while you believe that Becky does not?"

The difference between the people who post about their relatives every day and talk like they know exactly what is in their hearts and minds is that they don't pretend to BECOME the relatives they speak about. When you pretend to be someone else, you then take away all doubt as to what that person is thinking and feeling - you state their feelings as fact. When others post their beliefs about their relatives thoughts and feelings, you can understand that it is merely their opinion about what they think the relatives are thinking and feeling. Yes, they have the right to express their OWN beliefs and opinions.

"why is it that you have much less anger at those who offer their presumptions in a different form?"

You keep speaking about what "Becky" did as someone who offers her presumptions in a "different form" Why don't you just call a spade a spade? She wasn't offering presumptions "in a different form". She was impersonating someone else. She was lying about who she really was. If she lies about something as basic as that, how then can you believe anything she says?


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Empathy deficit disorder

There was an interesting article on the CNN site about empathy. There are a lot of people who are not able to imagine walking in someone else's shoes. Trying to imagine what walking in someone else's shoes is like is not the same as presumption. I mention that because presumptuousness was raised as an issue and that being presumptuous is thought to be objectionable, even though so many of us are presumptuous a lot of the time.

There are times when it makes sense to try to walk in someone else's shoes. Is it presumptuous to imagine what it is like to walk in someone else's shoes? We don't usually think of empathy as presumptuous. We do try to imagine what it would be like to be this person or that person. Except for those who have no empathy at all and can't manage to imagine.

"Becky's" postings were very much a walk in someone else's shoes. Not the DIL's shoes.

Whatever you feel about "Becky's" posts, the CNN article titled "Empathy Deficit Disorder" is a worthwhile read. There is one part of it that I don't agree with and that is the part where the author doesn't take full responsibility for her problem with a lack of empathy. But other than that, I like the article and want to share it with anyone interested. So here is the link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Empathy Deficit Disorder


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Natalie

natalie, You are a very kind person. You have written many great posts. You did excellent research.

I will mention that several times I have been fooled by people on the internet as to whom they were. I was extremely angry at what they did. Like you are now. I'm not going to try to talk you out of your anger. I felt the same way when it happened to me. In fact I reacted in a way that made it clear to them how angry I was.

As far as "Becky" goes, my perspective on it is a little different than the other times I've seen it happen. So I don't feel angry at the person and I believe I can understand why it happened.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"There are times when it makes sense to try to walk in someone else's shoes. Is it presumptuous to imagine what it is like to walk in someone else's shoes?"

It is always a positive thing to want to see another person's perspective and to imagine walking in their shoes. However, the purpose in doing so is to gain new insight into how the other person is feeling. To try to understand and empathize with their point of view. It didn't appear to me, as "Becky" was taking a walk in another's shoes, that she understood or sympathized at all with the person she was pretending to be. She portrayed this person as selfish, immature and controlling. Did you sense she was gaining any understanding or empathy toward this other person's point of view whose shoes she was walking in? If she did, she certainly didn't portray that by the posts she made. If she was sincerely trying to feel and understand more fully what the supposed DIL was feeling, why did she portray her as being a cold blooded, insensitive sociopath? Surely, there must be some redeeming qualities to this person. Is her DIL really that terrible of a person? It kind of defeats the purpose of walking in someone else's shoes when you think of them in such an unfeeling way and refuse to acknowledge their point of view, feelings and thoughts. The purpose of walking in another's shoes is to gain empathy to the other's point of view. I didn't see this at all with "Becky's" posts.

Please understand that I too, have had issues with my son and DIL. I can understand and sympathize with other mothers here who have been through the ringer with their DILs/SILs. I am just disappointed and disallusined when I find one of my fellow MILs stooping to such a low level to gain sympathy. She doesn't have to do this! There are many here (myself included) who will support her for who she is - not who she pretends to be! And thank you, amomoymous, for letting me know that you felt the same way I do now when you were fooled by others on the internet. Thank you for understanding and validating my feelings! You see, you walked in my shoes and you understood how I felt!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"You have lied in the post you wrote. But, since it is ostensibly not to hurt anyone, in your mind it is okay. I won't point out the particular lie as you know when you lie. I don't need to point it out."

My my, what a poker face you have amomy! But I'm going to call your bluff. Please do point out exactly what you think this "lie" is, because I have not lied about anything. Not here, not anywhere.

As I said before, I have an interest in estrangements. That interest is my own business. I am in no way compelled to explain my private life to you or anyone else. What a strange, controlling mindset you must have if you think you can demand information from complete strangers.

Suffice to say I am here looking for worthwhile insight about the best way to handle the family dynamic involved in an estrangement if the goal is permanent reconcillation. After reading a couple hundred posts on the subject, one can't help but notice patterns. There are people who freely admit they have made mistakes, and are working to correct those mistakes. They are looking for advice, not on how to further hurt their children or parents or In-Laws, but how to cope and heal, and after reading their posts, I say a quiet prayer for them. There are people who write over and over that they have never, ever done anything wrong, every bad thing that has happened to them has been someone else's fault. After reading their posts, I say a quiet prayer for their families. But best of all, there are people who post here offering such lustrous pearls of wisdom that when I read their posts, I tend to clip them in my private file, and say a quick prayer asking God to bless them and thanking him for sending them across my path. FWIW, they are not all on one "side", they are not the same ages, or even having the same problems. But they all offer wisdom and insight.

"Becky's" postings were very much a walk in someone else's shoes. Not the DIL's shoes."
I absolutely agree 100%. The author of the "Becky" posts was giving the whole world a wide open look into just what kind of a superficial, self centerd, controlling, manipluative, grief collector they really are. The "Becky" posts reflect nothing on the DIL, but they speak volumes about the lack of character of their author.

I am not in any way "stalking" anyone, but I do know a worm when I see it. Read again what I wrote about the author of the Becky posts being a Troll. I suggested that it might be someone making fun of people who have posted here about having problems with their MIL,or it could be one of those MILs themself. I made no claim either way, but I did warn the Troll how easy it is to be caught. Had their motives been simply to try and show everyone "their" side of the story, at that point they could have come forward and 'fessed up, and explained what they were trying (in their very clumsy and obvious way) to do. But no, the Troll actually tried to continue the deception, until enough was posted that there was no doubt it was all a vicious lie.

While your staunch defense of them is curious, I am not the least bit angry about the troll. I had not even posted to the OP because they were already getting very worthwhile advice. But when the Troll started posted and disrupting the conversation with lies, I saw no reason to allow them to continue unchecked.

Although I suppose you could say that the only effect that person has on my life is to clearly demonstrate what NOT to do, they (and their lies) can offer nothing of importance to my own goal of maintaining a good relationship with my own multigenerational family. (In Laws cheerfully included.)


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Natalie,

Yes. Been there. Felt that too.

I did not say that the poster who posted as "Becky" was empathizing with the dil. That wasn't my point. I was saying that by her having done that, she offered an opportunity for others to see how she herself felt about her dil. How deeply she felt about her dil's actions. How much feeling she has about the dil's husband.

I don't know if you've ever gone through a divorce. A divorce can make people feel many intense feelings. As you know yourself from how much you miss your son, estrangement from a child, or loss of a child for ANY reason, can result in feelings that are much more intense and longlasting than what occurs after a divorce. You know what people do when they are going through a divorce. We read about the things that recently estranged spouses do every day in the news.

The first years of a parent/child estrangement are extremely tough. People are not at the top of their game when they've lost a child. Some can stay relatively calm and handle their grief in a way that no one else knows. Not everyone is like that. Some want to take the world and shake it and make their child come back to them. Some want to take their SIL or their DIL and shake them when they feel that the DIL or SIL has had something to do with it. People aren't perfect. Parents aren't perfect. Mothers who have just lost their child and fear that they will never ever ever have them back in their lives don't always do things according to some book of etiquette. As they say, "All's fair in love and war." The love for a spouse is intense. The love for a child is also intense.

I can't answer your specific questions about why "Becky" did things the way that she did. You would have to ask "Becky" that.

I can say that it is common that parents do blame DILs and SILs for driving a wedge between them and their child. Sometimes that is the problem. I can say that when someone is angry at another and feels that they are responsible for the loss of their child, then they are not at their empathic best. They are not going to be capable of much empathy for that person for a while, if ever.

I've known people who were so threatened by their spouse's friends and even by their spouse's grown children that they try to disrupt their spouse's relationships by making up stories about their spouse's friends and by criticizing their spouse's kids and refusing to spend time together with them. I know these things happened as I witnessed them. They were not my relatives. There are people who do these kinds of things. If you are the parent of someone who is in a relationship with someone like that, I think you might be forgiven, at least by me, for thinking of them as a sociopath. Some of the people that I knew who have tried to separate their spouse's or girlfriends from friends and family were at best candidates for the label of NPD and at worst candidates for the title of Sociopathic Poster Boy or Girl.


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bloo

bloobird, If you are not whom I think you are, then I apologize for saying that you lied. If you are not that person, then it is possible that you have told the truth about yourself and I am wrong about you. But I am not convinced that you are not exactly whom I think you are. In fact with every post you write, I become more convinced that you must be that person. They say that there are no coincidences. There are too many coincidences here.

I won't continue to address that conviction of mine. I have stated it and I will leave it at that. Time may tell or maybe I will never know for 100% sure.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Well, all I can say is that it didn't hurt me at all. I don't really care. It just makes me wonder the emotional turmoil this person is dealing with in "real" life that would make/want her to do this. I also feel it "mocks/insults" the MILs that are going through these estrangements and post here.

What was her point in doing all this? Why hasn't she posted again? LOL I guess we'll never cuz she'll come back under a new nick. Oh well! What can you do with people like that.

IF such a DIL like Becky would/does exist somewhere, I would still feel the same as what I posed above with no regrets.

My opinion of someone who would do this type of thing is that she must be so consumed with sadness/angry/hate and also makes you wonder what her part in the estrangement she did, in fact, have! It takes TWO!

It also makes me feel like... Thank Gawd! this DIL was fake cuz I couldn't imagine having the strength to deal with someone like this... whether it be a DIL or a MIL.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"As they say, "All's fair in love and war."

And "they" are dead wrong. All is not fair in love and war. If it were, then the man who murders his own children rather than allow them to live with his ex wife is entierly justified. After all, he just "loved" those kids, right? If all was fair in love and war, we wouldn't be outraged when we hear about a soldier who rapes a civilian. If it's all fair, then the woman having an affair with a married man that results in the breakup of his family would be someone to emulate. We would be instructing our daughters that the way to true love is to find a married man and do everything they can to "steal" him.

You aren't given a pass on socially acceptable behaviour just because your adult child doesn't want you in their life, no matter how much you claim to "love" them.

That's the heart of the matter, really. So many people have confused "love" with control, or dependance, or neediness, or "winning". No matter how intense those feelings may be, that's not love.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloo,

okay. All is not fair in love and war.

Good grief!


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My dear amomymous

"I won't continue to address that conviction of mine. I have stated it and I will leave it at that. Time may tell or maybe I will never know for 100% sure.

There is simply no reason to live with such uncertainty. I invite you to check my ISP against whoever it is you are "convinced" I am. If you need some help with that, I'd be happy to send you an email and 'splain how it's done.

The numbers don't lie.

And neither do I.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloo,

1. ISP numbers for visitors to Gardenweb are not visible to those who post here unless you are receiving the messages in some other way than I do. Or you own Gardenweb or you are the Gardenweb webmaster.

2. An ISP number is only a number that indicates what service provider someone uses. It does not tell whom somone is. In fact ISP numbers can be used to obscure an identity. ISP numbers do in fact lie all the time.

3. Your fascination with ISP numbers is shared with the person who stalks me.

4. I would not give you my email address. Although you may already have it.

5. The word "splain" is also used by the person who stalks me who loves to try to explain things to me.

I am happy for you that you do not lie. That is great. Terrific! Wonderful.

Have a most terrific day!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

1. ISP numbers are visible to anyone, registered user or casual, one time guest, who loads any page on these forums. No mystery, no special privledge. You just have to know where to look.

2. yesterday's Troll wasn't able to hide behind an ISP.

3. Lots people know about ISP numbers, they're not a secret.

4. You'll notice that GW offers registered users the chance to accept email from other members without making their own personal address public. (It's also kept a secret from the person who is sending the email) That is what I was talking about. But for the record, no, I don't already have your email address. Really.

5. I claim no authorship for the word 'splain. It comes from the old B/W I Love Lucy Show. It's become a pretty common slang term.

I have no idea why anyone would want to "stalk" you, but it ain't me. As for finding the ISP on a GW post, maybe someone else will offer to fill you in. FWIW, I will continue to have a terrific day, thanks. And same your way.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Ah, bloo,

Take a look at your words "The author ...was giving the whole world a wide open look into just what kind of a superficial, self centerd, controlling, manipluative, grief collector they really are."

My belief that all of us are guilty of projecting still stands. My estrangement from my daughter (and NO, I'm not your mother), which has thankfully ended in a very close relationship with her, was filled with emotional ups and downs for both of us. However, never did I feel the vitriol against any person in this world than you've expressed in the above quote, so I am very sorry that your feelings are so bitter towards anyone, especially an anonymous person you don't even know. We all have emotional problems, especially if we are on this website and could all use some help coping with them. I got help for myself and I wish for you peace in your heart as well.


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On ISP numbers

I figured out where the ISP numbers are, Bloo. Interesting. I picture someone out there peering at their computer sorting through all that code looking for GW members' ISP numbers. It never occurred to me to do that. I am not sure that I even found the ISP number that you use. I'm not going to sort through all the code to find it. I managed to find my own ISP. I did not find the ISP number that I was looking for. Thus, there is some chance that you are not that person. I am sorry for saying that you lied. I don't know you. You are a stranger. You have an amazing online resemblance to someone else. I won't go into specifics.

For the rest of you who are wondering what the heck ISP numbers tell anyone, the ISP number tells what server the member is using when they access GardenWeb. However, more than one member can use a server. For example someone might access Gardenweb from Georgia by a Verizon server. But there are a lot of people who live in Georgia and a lot of people who use Verizon. So finding an ISP number in the code of a webpage does not mean that your friend in Georgia who uses Verizon is posting on Gardenweb.

A lot of people use Comcast. A lot of people use Roadrunner. Some people use ISP's that cloak the real ISP that they are using. So it offers some limited amount of information on visitors.

If you want to see the code that I am referring to, then choose to view the source code for this Gardenweb page. There will be tons of text in various colors and numbers. Among the numbers are the ISP numbers of visitors. It is hard to look at and not particularly interesting.

I am stunned that someone would have so much interest in the ISP numbers of people on Gardenweb. I can think of someone who might have that level of interest if they knew about it but bloobird says that she is not that person. So I will accept that bloobird is not that person. I do apologize for mistaking you for someone else, bloobird.


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RE: I am trying to move on! Stalkers and code source reading...

LOL,wow, that was fun. I think I need my 15yo to translate all of that!
Honestly, this info could come in handy, if I enjoyed getting a migraine!


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Regrets for my posts

To ALL who have been so kind, sweet, undrstanding, and angry! I'm writing to apologize for me coming on GW and posting as if I were my dil. The idea was to hopefully get people more interested in hearing it from the horses mouth. I was looking for true opinions, and I certainly got them. I truly did not mean to hurt anyone, be deceitful or waste your time. I feel terrible that it went as far as it did, when I originally intended to place only one post. I have to admit that i got caught up in the responses to my post as my dil, which were very enticing indeed.

I hope you'll accept my apology. I want you to know that if the roles were reversed I doubt I would feel any differently than Nataliehope describes. Stephanie in ga you were great, and all of the time and thought that went into all of your responses meant to much to me, you'll never know. It is very lonely trying to get people to understand how someone is treating you, when they don't exhibit this behavior elsewhere (or to any other family...yet.)

Yes, this was me posing as my dil, but everything I said is what I have indeed encountered. It was difficult not to portray her the way she was and still get how she has behaved, in a question like format. I tried to make the mil seem as bad as my dil thinks I am, but because my dil's behavior is so outrageous, I know I came across as an angel. I am not an angel, and I have accepted the fault in this relationship that I have contributed to. Though I tried deserperately to just have a simple relationship with my dil, and not step on any toes, it doesn't seem to matter what I do, she can find fault with anything I do.

I know I was deceitful, and believe it or not this was/is very out of character for me. I came close to just saying it was me when I first got accused of being a troll. I don't really think it would matter that much when I did confess, but as they say 'oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

Amomynous and sevearl others were very understanding, probably much more then I would possibly have been. They are truly an inspiration to me to be more kind, and thoughtful of what a person may be experiencing that would cause them to go to this length. It's just like someone being crabby with me at the grocery store, now I stop and think 'maybe they are just having a bad day, and it's most likely not personal'.

I hope you'll accept my apology and that I can someday post here again since the the great majority of responses have been so very thought out, constructive, sensitive, and understanding. Again, I'm sorry I wasted so much of your time, you truly were wonderful.

Sincerely,

becky1 / anniebal


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

It took a big person to come back here and write that. I for one will never speak of it again.

But for the record, should we call you Annie or Becky? ;^)


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Yes, thank you Anniebal. I honestly didn't think we'd get that post from you. I don't know if I'd be strong enough to come back and apologize like that. So it is accepted by me. Thank you for letting me know I have said something that was valuable to you, I know my time was well spent.

I also sincerly hope that in time you, your son and DIL will be able to give each other another chance. Your son and DIL are young, maybe life experiences and learning will make them ready to try again someday soon.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloobird, please refer to me as anniebal :) From now on when I post here I'll use my regular sign in, becky is being retired for good reason.

Thank you for being understanding and stating you'll never speak of it again...it is greatly appreciated.

anniebal


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Regrets

Stephanie in ga, you were great with what you wrote. I couldn't get over how good you were at attempting to correct 'becky' but still staying within boundaries. You are certainly a very patient, understanding person that anyone would be proud to be friends with.

I do hope someday that my son can at least realize he can see us, with or without our dil. I hope he can realize that I don't want to rehash the past, I just want to move forward. If they come in our lives again, there won't be any talk of bad times, it will be learning to accept each other for who we all are and moving on.

I don't see that happening with my dil. She is beyond what I can describe, but you got a very reasonable glimpse into her mindset. Of course I don't know what she has said to justify her actions, and perhaps she didn't justify some at all. I always thought it was insecurity, and once she saw that we had no intentions of interfering with her and my son, that she'd get over it. But, just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it can't, people do change.

anniebal


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A thank you for the ISP tip

bloobird,

Thank you for the ISP tip. I see the utility of it now that I took more time with it. I don't know why you didn't explain about it in the thread but that's your call.

Very interesting. Although I don't intend to be looking at it much. But when one has a question, yes, it does lead to some probable answers. Amazing that it is that simple!

I should have fewer cases of mistaken identity thanks to you! :-)

Thank you!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Anniebal - how wonderfully mature of you to come and admit your posting actions and purpose. My hat is off to you. Of course, we're still seeing only one side of the estrangement, but that is totally separate from the fact that you have admitted, apologized, and asked for forgiveness. My very best to you as you continue through the interactions with your son and DIL.

Suziequ


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I'd like to say how much I appreciate everyone who has responded to my apology. I wasn't sure how it would be taken, and I can't complain if anyone is still angry. I only hope that those who are still angry will know how bad I feel about this whole thing, and how much time I wasted. There is far too little time in the day, to be wasting anyone's time responding to the type of request I posted. I wish I had been more thoughtful when I started, Unfortunately, I was too focused on me and my feelings to see the bigger picture. I won't repeat this behavior ever again.

anniebal


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I read all the posts and as a mother who has an estranged adult son for almost three years, all I can say is that just about every issue is simply too petty to worry about. I would do anything to have my son back in my life again. Material things, stupids words, advice, the need to be right or superior, are all just petty. What it ultimately comes down to is how badly do we want a particular relationship and under what terms? Would I rather have a certain person in my life or would I rather have things said and done my way?
In my opinion however you answer those questions determines your decision. This is just my opinion and I realize that some people just don't want you in their life and won't give you any options, but if you have the option, then you have to choose between the relationship or being right. This is big---as there are times when you can lose your adult child forever just because of a misunderstanding or something you don't like about a person important in their life. They may just cut you out of their life and you may never even know what hit you or what you did wrong! Personally, I would do, say, just about anything to understand my son's thoughts and be given the opportunity to know what happened and what proable petty thing we did as a family to cause the estrangement.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

A -
It's not a matter of being mad about this - rather, it's just information...for us about you, and for you about you. Looks like you're big enough to look at it in the face, rather than get defensive. I wouldn't have guessed that about you. That again is information. Fortunately, hopefully, as we humans discover darker sides of ourselves, it makes us humble, maleable - this is what lends to healing relationships with others. Perhaps it will apply here.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I just returned from a wonderful weekend out of town and I thought I'd check this thread to see if there were any new developments.

Wow, Anniebal!! I was shocked to read your apology! I didn't think we would hear from you again. I am pleased that you owned up to what you did, and were "woman" enough to apologize!! I know that took a lot of courage to do so, and I applaud you for admitting you were wrong and stating you would not do this again. Of course, your apology is accepted by me.

I just want you to know that though I was quite upset at your tactics, I wasn't upset with you personally. As you can tell by my stern responses to "Becky", I was a staunch ally to her MIL (you) and was exasperated at her callous, insensitive regard for her MIl's (your) feelings. I guess I got so irritated when I found out about your pretense at being "Becky" because I felt that we, as MIL's don't need to resort to such tactics in order to get our point across. I also thought about how irate I would be if I were to find out that my DIL were posting on a public forum impersonating me. Put that together with the feeling that I had played the fool for falling for your ploy of being "Becky", and you have the perfect storm of emotion!

Please know that I will always be here to lend my support, offer advice, or just plain listen if you ever feel you need to vent. I have a DIL who sounds eerily similar to yours, so I understand completely what you are going through. Thank you for coming forward and opening up to all of us!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

nataliehope, I appreciate your understanding very much.

I'm not one to shy away from apologizing for things I've done wrong, and believe me there have been many in my life. I've always preferred to just face the music, rather then go around feeling awful about it. There is no way I can just let something like this go, so it would just keep eating at me forever. I just need to do right by my wrongs.

You raise a point I hadn't even considered, and that is a dil impersonating us! There is another reason this was a terrible idea. As I stated, I didn't give it enough fore thought before posting, which is always a mistake.

Though I relished the support regarding "Becky's" behavior, I soon realized how much time everyone here was putting into their very sincere answers, and I felt like an idiot. Even if it gave me some much needed support regarding my dil's actions, it was short lived, and simply not real, so in the end this was going to happen.

This is what I have a hard time understanding about my dil. Of all the infactions my dil feels I committed, I never avoided saying I was sorry. The only time I didn't apologize for something was when I had told her she wasn't my peer, and she hung up on me. Of course I had called her to apologize for my friends behavior, which I did, but when she went on about how she can control her friends, I gave up. It was so snotty to me that the words just jumped out of my mouth "young lady, you are not my peer." I didn't yell it, or even say it very harshly, much more low key, matter of fact. Still, my dil does believe she is my peer, and has a very hard time being respectful to others, especially those who are holder then she is (but overall, she just as a hard time being resepectful, period.)

Amyfiddler, I'm glad I surprised you by my actions, but I think if would just realize that some of our behavior on here isn't exactly how we normally behave, things would be much easier between you and I. Emotions get very tense when one feels they are defending their position, and I don't believe I have ever stated I have no fault in this situation. However, I don't believe that any of the infractions I have committed come close to deserving the reaction I have received from my dil. I just simply don't know what else I could do to make her like me. I gave in on every issue.

Penbyrd, I so agree wtih you about waht matters in life, and doesn't. When we first almost reconciled with my son and dil, I had told my son that none of what we had been arguing about was worth us not seeing each other. I asked him if we could just try to move on, and forget the whole Hawaii trip and accept all of us for who we are. This didn't seem to matter, since after our first get together for a 45 minute breakfast, things had already gone astray. We left breakfast thinking that it was very pleasant, and a good start, however my hubby and I did both say to each other as we got in the car to leave, that we wondered what our dil would come up with now that we have done.

Sure enough, 3 days later, we get a phone call from our son, reading us some riot act about how we didn't include his wife in conversation at breakfast. Now, mind you, we were sitting in a booth, and we were directly across from my son and dil. Aside from putting up some physical barrier in order for us to avoid having the conversation directed to her at all, there was just no logical reason to think this. When my dil would give an answer, she would state it to my son, who would then in turn say it to us. I don't know waht that was about, but we were conversing with both of them.

I feel for the short term, that she has no plan on allowing us into their lives. I can only hope that my son grows more secure in their relationship, to the point that he will be able to put his foot down about being able to see us. If she doesn't want to come, that's fine, and I understand. But I don't understand why and he and his dad and I cannot see each other. I've often thought that if we could resume some sort of relationship with our son that in time, perhaps our dil would see that we do indeed want her in our life. Perhaps she would start relaxing a bit about our role in our sons life, and realize that we have no intention of butting in, dropping by unannounced, etc. Only time will tell for sure.

I miss my son terribly, and every day it is painful.

anniebl


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"But for the record, should we call you Annie or Becky?"

Or Amomymous?

Sheesh. Please get a therapist. These kinds of games and this obsession cannot repair your relationship with your son or produce happiness. This kind of behavior is scary. Your whole life is focused on your estrangement and you are completely amoral on your approach. Who's got the time or energy to deal with you; I'm not surprised he's fled from your life.

Please get some heavy duty professional help and don't play these games with your therapist. Your protrayal of Becky indicates you know very well what you've done to cause your estrangment with your son. Instead of playing mind games, try strict honesty and some humility. Your impersonating was an awful thing to do, not to us, because we are strangers on the internet and how can you hurt us, but an indication of how amoral you are in your relationships. If you'll do this to people who don't matter, what won't you do to coerce your son, who does matter to you? All that this kind of behavior can produce is distrust and rejection. Please get help for yourself. There's really no way to spin this kind of thing to make yourself look noble, clever, or decent.

OMG.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I agree, Cindy. Makes you wonder what the DIL has been dealing with.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

cindylouwho and magicgran and forms,

Speaking of getting professional help . . .

While you were away doing whatever you were doing, bloobird gave some great tips on ISP numbers. Bloobird figured out that becky was anniebal with her ISP number detective work. I was impressed!

bloobird may know whom else I am. She would know who I am not. No, I am not becky nor am I anniebal. As bloobird says, check the ISPs.

I did check your ISPs. Today.

And then YOU talk about playing games!!!!!!!!!

Amazing! Now you'll probably try to explain yourself out of this.

The good thing about this is you never have to feel lonely. You can always have a three way conversation with yourself. Or maybe there are more? Sybil perhaps? An infinite supply of personalities?

I mentioned in a post up above there that there were those who were throwing stones at glass houses. I hear the sound of glass breaking!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Sirens, 1st let me remind you of conflicting opinions you offered Becky:

"The problem comes when you marry someone from a dysfunctional family who cannot break away from his mother (or father), and be man of his own house.
Most people these days --- especially members of the same family --- don't expect to be called "Mrs."
That sort of formality went out in the mid-sixties!
It seems odd to me that your MIL would want to be referred to as "Mrs;" yet, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with it, either....if that is how she wants to be addressed, what's the harm in it?
That is her comfort level.

How did you form the opinion that the family was/is dysfunctional? Your assuming that 'he' can't break away from his family because they are 'dysfunctional?' WOW, what an opinion to form and so quickly too.

Also, "be the man of his own house?" My son is not the man of the house, he is unlikely to even be the man of his own car! dil is the one holding the reins, cracking the whip, and calling the shots. You call this being the man in his house?

But then you state:

Most people these days --- especially members of the same family --- don't expect to be called "Mrs."
That sort of formality went out in the mid-sixties!

That opinion is contradicted in your next statement:

It seems odd to me that your MIL would want to be referred to as "Mrs;" yet, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with it, either....if that is how she wants to be addressed, what's the harm in it?

So is it or is it not ok to call you mil by Mrs? If that's my comfort zone, you say it's ok...but right after you proclaimed it was completely out of fashion? SO what is it?

Who else but members of the same family would be dealing with this issue being sensitive? Did manners, respect, accountability, and work ethic also go out of fashion after the 1960s? That would certainly explain a great deal.

You know you, forms, and cindylouwhoonly2 certainly sound an awful lot alike, but then you could just all be born after the 1960s and be 'out of fashion' (i.e., no manners, poor work ethic, no accountability, self righteous....)

anniebal


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Cindylou....and magicgran have apparently disappeared from this thread but reappeared yesterday in the thread entitled:

It's a Shame

The last two posts, one right after the other. :-)


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

fuzzy,

Yes, one right after the other. Yup.

Magicgran has been undergoing a personality change. Very different in tone and attitude from the first long post by the apparently compassionate computer-using ninety-something woman that charmed so many here.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Okay, I think you have just about worn this out....
In your original post you said you were trying to move on...well JUST DO IT!!!...rehashing this every day (hour) is not healthy....get past it and get on with your life and be thankful for what is going on that is right in your life. Help someone else who is less fortunate and quit dwelling on yourself so much.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"How did you form the opinion that the family was/is dysfunctional? Your assuming that 'he' can't break away from his family because they are 'dysfunctional?' WOW, what an opinion to form and so quickly too."

I didn't say the family was dysfunctional; learn to read and - more importantly - comprehend what you are reading.
I said that problems occur when one marries a person who cannot break away from their emmeshed role in a dysfunctional family.
That should be obvious; yet, I am having to clarify.
Let me get this straight....you're offended because of what I said to "Becky," your troll alter-ego??
Talk about gall.

Woman, you need help.

"Also, "be the man of his own house?" My son is not the man of the house, he is unlikely to even be the man of his own car! dil is the one holding the reins, cracking the whip, and calling the shots. You call this being the man in his house?"

I was making the point that a man should be the man of his own house. Whether or not your DIL is "really in charge" is open to question.


"So is it or is it not ok to call you mil by Mrs? If that's my comfort zone, you say it's ok...but right after you proclaimed it was completely out of fashion? SO what is it?"

You poor thing.
It's perfectly clear that I was saying most folks don't prefer to be called by "Mrs.," but if her MIL does prefer that, what is the harm in going along with it?
Some little customs are dated, but so what...it's really not a big deal - but your hysteria suggest otherwise.

"Who else but members of the same family would be dealing with this issue being sensitive? Did manners, respect, accountability, and work ethic also go out of fashion after the 1960s? That would certainly explain a great deal."

Manners? I hardly think manners would ever go out of style. Same for respect..... And as I said, if she (you, as it turns out), prefers to be called "Mrs." there's no harm in it.
What are you complaining about? Or am I just a convenient target for your rage, in the absence of your DIL???

"You know you, forms, and cindylouwhoonly2 certainly sound an awful lot alike, but then you could just all be born after the 1960s and be 'out of fashion' (i.e., no manners, poor work ethic, no accountability, self righteous....)"

Considering that you've been outed as a TROLL, I hardly think you are the one to sling mud. Born after the '60's, I was born in 1955.

As usual, your assumptions are WAY OFF BASE.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

YOUR QUOTE SIRES: "The problem comes when you marry someone from a dysfunctional family who cannot break away from his mother (or father), and be man of his own house." Sirens, I don't have any problem reading or comprehending, but it sure seems you do, or a very selective way at looking and understanding things.
I stated Sirens said:: "Most people these days --- especially members of the same family --- don't expect to be called "Mrs."

And Sirens Entire quote is:

"That sort of formality went out in the mid-sixties!
It seems odd to me that your MIL would want to be referred to as "Mrs;" yet, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with it, either....if that is how she wants to be addressed, what's the harm in it? That is her comfort level.
I would just go ahead and call her Mrs."

YOU DID in fact state that "a person is from a 'dysfunctional' family," that WAS your assumption, and YOUR quote!

You state a 'man should be the man of his house' yet, dil can be the one in control? How does this make him the 'man of his house'??

Any man cowtowing to his wife's commands, or any woman cowtowing to her husband's demands is not a whole person, they are weak, and suffering from a lack of self esteem, and self worth.

You state in one sentence how outdated calling anyone "Mrs" is, a thing of the past, from the sixties, yet now you want to have it both ways?!! Now you want to say, well even tho it is old fashioned and no one does it, if that's what your mil wants, then it's ok?

Sirens, it doesn't matter whether your answering to 'becky' or 'anniebal' your answer is still your answer...period.
, it didn't change because of who the person was asking the question. So you change your opinion based on who is writing it? This would make sense since you definitely side with the poor, misteated dils. You seem very insecure.

Yes, I can sling mud because I admitted what I did, and why. Where is the admission from all the other hypocrites on this site, that have been more then one person for who knows how long! Now they want to take the high road, I don't think so.

Obviously my assumptions are not way off base, or you wouldn't be defending them so ferociuosly. Everyone can see through your contradictory statements, and see what type of person you really are.

I wonder what your other IDs are on this web forum? I wonder how many other sites you frequent, or "Troll?"

Sad that some people can't admit their faults.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Woah, anneibal/becky, back up a minute lady, I haven't really been following all this mess other than to get my laugh for the day, but I certainly don't think you have much room to talk. I expect other people to jump down someone's back, but with your history, I certainly wouldn't be calling out people or referring to them as trolls after what you did. Plus, I'm not seeing anything that points 100% to sirens being a troll. It may just be wishful thinking on your part.

Admitting you did something wrong, (after you had been called out) doesn't make you a saint, of give you any more entitlement. People may have forgiven you, but not all is forgotten, and when you treat other people harshly for doing what you did (or less), it just doesn't sit well. Just because you got caught, and admitted doing something, doesn't mean you can't be considered a hypocrite when you attack people you "think" are doing something similar.

IMHO, If you were truly sorry, you should be acting differently and showing others the same compassion that was shown to you.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Just so everyone on the board can see the post Anniebal is RANTING about, I am pasting it, here.

"Becky, you asked if your husband "should remove himself" from his family except for holiday visits --- actually, when a man marries, he removes himself from his family of origin --- marriage is starting ANOTHER family.
So technically, the removal has already taken place.
The problem comes when you marry someone from a dysfunctional family who cannot break away from his mother (or father), and be man of his own house.
Most people these days --- especially members of the same family --- don't expect to be called "Mrs."
That sort of formality went out in the mid-sixties!
It seems odd to me that your MIL would want to be referred to as "Mrs;" yet, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with it, either....if that is how she wants to be addressed, what's the harm in it?
That is her comfort level.
I would just go ahead and call her Mrs.
As far as your husband visiting, it's not up to you to tell him how often to see them --- UNLESS he is cutting into your family time.
It sounds like you're a little jealous when he comes home, singing his mom's praises. Perhaps he is trying to get you to like her more, and that is why he is doing this?"

Now, everyone can see what I wrote; although when I posted to "Becky," I had no idea at all that "Becky" was YOUR TROLL....seems you've been caught with your hand in the cookie jar, and you want to take it out on me?
Pop another pill, or whatever gets you through your day, and chill out.

It's very obvious to anyone with half a brain, that I was making a blanket statement: "The problem comes when you marry someone from a dysfunctional family who cannot break away from his mother (or father), and be man of his own house."

Now, I posted that, and I stand by it. It's always a problem when ANYONE married into a dysfunctional mess, where the family members are emmeshed and there are no boundaries, etc.
Do you disagree?
Odd that you would take my general statement, SO PERSONALLY. Some would even say, your hysterical overreaction just proves the statement to be true, or at least, very telling (in your case).
And, MOST FOLKS DO NOT want to be called, "Mrs."
Most people ARE more casual these days, with "titles" -- sorry if that boggles your brain.
However, I *don't* see the DIL calling the MIL (you, in this case), BY WHAT SHE PREFERS, to be a big issue....which is why I advised "Becky" to go ahead, in the interests of getting along with her MIL, and to promote good will.
Yes, it may be a bit old-fashioned; but on the other hand, it is a hill to die on?!

Try to read and comprehend.

Think about what you are reading.

You asked,
"You state a 'man should be the man of his house' yet, dil can be the one in control? How does this make him the 'man of his house'??"

I never said the DIL should in "in control;" in fact, I said the opposite; that her husband should be in control of his home.

Is that so difficult for you to grasp?

"Sirens, it doesn't matter whether your answering to 'becky' or 'anniebal' your answer is still your answer...period.
, it didn't change because of who the person was asking the question. So you change your opinion based on who is writing it? This would make sense since you definitely side with the poor, misteated dils. You seem very insecure. "

I've never changed my opinion, and I don't "automatically" side with anyone - I read and respond. Sometimes the MIL, sometimes the DIL.
If DISAGREEING WITH YOU means I am "insecure," oh well...guess I'll need to continue.

Yes, I can sling mud because I admitted what I did, and why. Where is the admission from all the other hypocrites on this site, that have been more then one person for who knows how long! Now they want to take the high road, I don't think so.

You didn't admit SQUAT!
You were OUTED.
Owning up to stealing cookies when you're caught with your hand in the cookie jar, doesn't exactly prove your honesty!
And I've never posted here as anyone except Sirens.

Obviously my assumptions are not way off base, or you wouldn't be defending them so ferociuosly. Everyone can see through your contradictory statements, and see what type of person you really are.

Oh, so I'm just supposed to sit by, while you accuse me of doing what YOU did? Don't think so, lady.

What do you mean, what kind of person are you alleging me to be? Are you so hungry for blood and drama, that you will continue to attack an anonymous person on a message board, because you cannot get to your own DIL????

My God, I feel sorry for that poor woman! Lord only knows what you have put her through.

GET SOME HELP.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

This argument is getting painful to read. I'll bet it's getting painful for others to read too. It isn't accomplishing anything. If it continues, I'll bet that someone at GW will pull the thread.

I've been on the internet participating in discussion boards for 15 years. How time flies! When I first would get involved in vigorous debates, I found that certain people targeted me. I would react. They would say something else that got me going. I would react again. Eventually someone told me that it was because I reacted. It was fun for them. It's not much fun if someone doesn't react. Especially on the internet.

So you two are bouncing off one another like crazy. Yes, there are misinterpretations that are contributing to the mess. Yes, it is unlikely that you two are ever going to agree about the causes of estrangement. But it is possible for two people who disagree to participate on a board without creating a situation where the moderators have to pull the thread. It is possible to agree to disagree. But to do that, then the questioning of character has to stop. The inflammatory statements have to stop. Someone has to stop reacting. If there is no reaction, then there can't be a counter-reaction.

It is inflammatory when someone calls another person insecure, hysterical, unable to comprehend, hungry for blood and drama, and questioning someone's character. You are both guilty of doing this.

Years ago when I was involved in those arguments, the way that I reacted created a lot of fun for some strangers. But it isn't much fun in threads like this which were not meant to be hotbeds of heated debate as some of the boards that I once was part of. I'm not enjoying reading this. I'm sure others are finding it painful to read. It is accomplishing nothing.

It is possible to discuss emotional issues and not react like this. If you stay off of calling names and assaulting each other's character, it would be a good start.

Please consider the options and try something different!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

All I have to say (I think I said that before? LOL) is when you wrote as your DIL, it was YOUR THOUGHTS about what your DIL did and how she thought about things. It wasn't really her so, again, it's just your side of the story. To say you did it so that we can better understand or whatever just doesn't "fit the bill" cuz it's what YOU want us to believe!

All this scenario did for me was to prove that one should take what you say with a grain of salt as you are known to exagerrate issues. Also make me wonder if there wasn't more to the stories than you're willing to say... on your part!

You made your DIL seem so vicious, hateful, and controlling! Maybe she is in YOUR eyes only because there might be some itsy bitsy truth somewhere in your stories about how you really are??? How are we to believe what you say about your issues now? YOUR thoughts about your posts as the DIL might just be what's in your head and not hers! So in reality, you didn't accomplish anything by doing what you did. To even think of doing something like that, makes me wonder how vengeful of a person you might really be towards your DIL.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Carla35, who are you? Ive never read one post from you here, or in other forums before? I do find it curious that all of a sudden you jump in on the conversation (so to speak)and never, ever commented during the entire becky incident! You voice very harsh opinions to me, but not of sirens? Sirens who has nothing to say in a constructive manner, unless you consider pointed, harsh, negative comments constructive?!! I certainly would not consider that method of reply helpful or understanding, nor would I consider your angry comments any differently than hers.

Who needs to get help here?

You state: "I expect other people to jump down someone's back, but with your history, I certainly wouldn't be calling out people or referring to them as trolls after what you did."

Really, I'm not entitled to give my opinion? I certainly wouldn't call what I did jumping down anyones back. I NEVER called sirens a troll either, that is what sirens continues to spew at me or anyone else who disagrees with her. It is sirens immature way to try and taunt people back into getting angry.


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Really????

Well, Khandi, I guess everything anyone says should be taken with a grain of salt. Had I never admitted my mistake, I can certainly see your attitude, but your don't sound like the very forgiving type, that is for sure.

I apologized and explained. I don't need to do anymore groveling to earn back someone's opinion on this forum that I truly don't care about.

Are you here to help, or start arguements?

I'd have to ask the same question of Sirens, Forms, AmyFiddler, magicgran, cindylouwho2.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

anniebal,

I've been on these boards for a very long time (check my page) -- way longer than you have and I have posted a lot more on these forums probably than you ever have or ever will, so please do not even try to insinuate anything about me.

I have been reading this post because I was following pinkpionies's story and posted on her other post (you can even check that out). Why your drama is on her post in beyond me...

Just because I didn't get involved in all your personal drama doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about how you are treating people now.

I thought you were implying sirens was a troll with this comment:

"I wonder what your other IDs are on this web forum? I wonder how many other sites you frequent, or "Troll?""

Maybe I got that wrong?? But, to me it just seems like you are the pot calling the kettle black.

PLEASE DON'T EVER CALL ME OUT AGAIN AND INSINUATE ANYTHING JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHO I AM-- I don't play games, and don't like playing your type of games. If you don't like my opinion, attack my opinion -- your tactics of going after me the way you did are just wrong in my play book.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"Really, I'm not entitled to give my opinion? I certainly wouldn't call what I did jumping down anyones back. I NEVER called sirens a troll either, that is what sirens continues to spew at me or anyone else who disagrees with her. It is sirens immature way to try and taunt people back into getting angry."

Anniebal, you *did* call me a troll - you posted:

"I wonder what your other IDs are on this web forum? I wonder how many other sites you frequent, or "Troll?"

You'd better watch yourself; you are revealing *who you really are* with every single post you make on this board.
I'm not taunting anyone.
I'm refuting the lie that I troll this board; I have one username, and one only; and that is Sirens.

Personally, I'm happy to ignore anniebal; I'm not here to argue with someone who's always "right;" I'd prefer to use my time addressing sincere people who want feedback and unbiased options/comments/suggestions, as to what could possibly help their situations....the only reason I dignified her posts with a response, is because she said that I was posting as multiple usernames, which is a bold-faced lie.

Any other forum would have already banned her for trolling.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Carla35, it may be that you've been posting on other issues, but my point was that I haven't seen you post your comments on any of the threads that I have visited. It does seem strange tho that you waited to now to chime in on what you thought of the becky situation, and only after sirens posted very harshly as usual.

Don't tell me what I can or cannot insinuate, since I'll say whatever I believe to be applicable.

As far as the pot calling the kettle black, Hmmm.....I think that would apply had I not sincerely apologized for my indiscretion, but I did apologize and explained, which is more than I've ever seen anyone on these forums do. I will take the high road because that is my personality
to do so. I am not self righteous as some in this group are.

What exactly are the games you are referring to? Please be more specific? Just because I question who you are, and the timing of you getting involved in this subject, certainly doesn't indicate I'm playing games.

Personal Drama? Should I go back and quote some of your personal drama?

Carla Drama:

"I expect other people to jump down someone's back, but with your history, I certainly wouldn't be calling out people or referring to them as trolls after what you did." -- MY HISTORY,-- would that be of apologizing and facing the music, or hiding like the cowards so many on this forum are?

"Plus, I'm not seeing anything that points 100% to sirens being a troll. It may just be wishful thinking on your part." -- WISHFUL THINKING? I don't think it takes a brainiac to see similarities.

" admitting you did something wrong, (after you had been called out) doesn't make you a saint, of give you any more entitlement." -- A SAINT, ENTITLED? Please quote where I referred to myself as a saint, please do tell? As far as entitled, I am entitled to post my opinion on these forums as equally as anyone else here is.

"People may have forgiven you, but not all is forgotten, and when you treat other people harshly for doing what you did (or less), it just doesn't sit well." -- FORGIVEN, FORGOTTEN: I can see your not the forgiving type, and would much rather judge harshly as so many do.

"Just because you got caught, and admitted doing something, doesn't mean you can't be considered a hypocrite when you attack people you "think" are doing something similar." --GOT CAUGHT?? -- I would say it is closer to being revealed, and accused but certainly not caught. Had I not come back to apologize for my actions, and try to explain how I got into the mess, no one would have known for sure if it was me or not.

"IMHO, If you were truly sorry, you should be acting differently and showing others the same compassion that was shown to you." -- OH CARLA, the wise one, please let me know how I should be behaving so that I can properly show that I have compassion?"

Carla, you have a "HUMBLE OPINION"? I don't see anything humble about any of your posts, but I do see accusatory, coldhearted, and self righteous.

Care to post more drama?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

No, not really. I'm not going to play that pull apart every sentence thing you do, when it's pretty clear to me that we speak different languages and that you're not going to understand what I'm saying anyway.

If you don't see the difference between my posting and your drama (posting under different names, and then bashing others who may be, your name calling, etc), then I feel for you. And, I do mean this sincerely, and you can pick it to pieces and call me all the names you want, but I really think you may need to talk to someone. I think it may really help you.

I wish you and your DIL well and hope you can come to some peace. I am sorry my words have hurt you. You are right I should have read all your postings to get a better impression of the kind of person you (and becky) really are before I posted anything. If I had, I doubt I would have decided to get involved at all. My bad.

Take care and may I suggest you tone it down a bit. Generally I don't mind a strong tone but I would guess if someone got mad enough at you they may report you for using more than one name and you could get booted off these forums. I believe it's against the forum rules to use more than one name (not just a common courtesy) but a real rule here. So it may be best to keep low key for awhile. Just a friendly suggestion, please don't jump down throat for it.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Carla,

It if were a real GW rule that posters could use only one name, then that would decrease the number of posters in the GW Parents Forum by a surprising number, especially in the threads on family estrangement.


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Speed this thread to its demise!

Since the limit to the number of comments in each thread is 150, I am doing my bit with this comment to move this one along to its demise. This thread is terminally ill! Only 33 comments left after this one! Soon to R.I.P.!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

It befuddles me why people would want to create more than one account. I mean, I can understand why... I would just never resort to doing it. It sort of defeats the purpose of discussing things in a forum setting if you bring in an invisible friend or two.

Anyway, if you look under the "Terms of Service" section at the very bottom of the page, you can pull up the rules everyone agreed to when they signed up. They include:

"You agree not to create multiple memberships and/or memberships for another individual. Each individual must create his or her own membership."

I'm not sure how they can prove you have set up multiple accounts, but I would think if someone admitted to it, it may be proof enough. I guess it's really at their discretion how they want to handle, but if enough people complain about someone doing it, I wouldn't think it would sit really well with them. Who knows though... Someone was recently thrown off another forum I visit (for something else) so I guess it's fresh in my head.

Maybe mentioning the rules will keep others on their toes and keep them from posting under numerous names too. I think most would agree it's just common forum courtesy to use only one name. If you can't get your point across by yourself or it bothers you that no one seems to agree, then maybe you should think twice about posting on these forums.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Let's all sing to the tune of Ninety-nine Bottles of Beer:

Thirty-one comments left in the thread,
Thirty-one comments are left!
If you write a comment and submit your message,
There will be thirty comments left in the thread!

Thirty comments will be left in the thread,
Thirty comments will be left!
If you write . . .


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Well, since we're talking euthanasia here....

I'm not sure where GW HQ are, and frankly, I think they outsource alot of the day to day maintenence. (Deleting posts, banning disruptive posters) But I do know there is no official "Playground Monitor" cruising the forums making sure everyone obeys the rules. GW won't do anything about any thread or any poster until they receive a complaint.

Apparently GW doesn't send anyone over to read the posts or the thread, they just take it at face value that someone, somewhere is offended, and pull it. When you look at the number of posts on GW and THS in a day, that makes sense. It's not like they can employ someone to babysit every forum, and even using a volunteer for the job would naturally result in an eventual bias. GW figures who is going to bother complaining unless it's really bad, so they rely on self reporting.

That's the easy way for them, but a crabby, controlling poster can have a serious effect on a forum. I've seen people who had been involved in strong disagreements have almost every post they made (for days on end) deleted from several discussions on a forum. You know the posts were originally there, because other people are responding to them. GW can pull one post out of 100, and leave the rest of the thread intact, or they can simply take the nuclear option and pull the thread. I've heard of posters being given "warning" via email that there have been complaints, or that they are violating the rules, but what I've heard more of lately is posters given a form of temporary "banishment", that is, they find themselves unable to log in to post. But - if you write The Powers That Be at GW and simply state that your password for xyz user ID isn't working, they'll reinstate you, no questions asked. Still, repeated often enough, the net effect is that poster being targeted looses interest, and the complainer ends up driving them away from the forum. That's certainly understandable: how much fun can it be to have what you've written end up deleted without explaination over and over and over?

If they're determined enough, they can get a new email address and a new ID and come back to post again (like you did). FWIW, that's why I didn't publicly explain ISP info; it makes "stalking" too easy. But maybe now GW will give this entire thread a merciful death?


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Two questions

bloobird,

Two questions:

What does THS stand for?
And are you referring to me when you say "If they're determined enough . . ."

Because if you are referring to me, you are incorrect about my being "determined enough". I have never been in a situation here on GW where I would be removed. My other id, as you should know, is one that was never used for insulting or objectionable posts. My only reason for using amomymous is because of being stalked. The person who stalks me has used multiple names on another group to which I once belonged but quit due to being harrassed.

I can post at any time under my other name on here. I am choosing not to post under that name. I have nothing to be "determined" about. Perhaps you are referring to someone else and I am taking it personally?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Ivillage divides it's forums into different websites.

GW is Garden Web: Gardening, landscaping, plants.
THS is That Home Site: House and people. It's where we are now.
And The Nature Net: birdwatching, camping, the great outdoors.

I tend to refer to GW when I mean iVillage because that's the section I've been on the longest, but really, this is the iVillage carnival, and if you want to ride, or need to complain about a bully on the merry go round, that's who you talk to.


Yes, I was referring to you, but not the way you think. That's my mistake for not 'splaining myself better. When I wrote determined, I meant a poster who has become the target of someone's personal vendetta can simply get a new ID and loose the stalker. In that sense, the poster with the new ID is determined not to let the stalker silence him/her.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloobird,

Thank you for explaining that. I appreciate it.

Even by using this new name I am silenced in some ways because of my awareness of being stalked but in other ways I have more freedom. So it's not all bad.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Carla, I may pick apart some of the things you state, but I haven't called you any names.

As far as bashing others for something I myself did, I don't believe I was bashing anyone. I was pointing out the hypocracy of people complaining about me (only a few,) and waht I did, when they themselves are most likely doing the same thing. I'm tired of this discussion. As I stated, I felt badly for what I did, it was out of character for me, and I apologized once I realized what a bad idea it was. I wish I would have realized it before I ever did it, but that is history. Do you think I ever planned on doing this? It was a very spontaneous reaction, which is why it turned out so badly. Remember, never say never since it will usually come back to bite you. I have done things since the estrangement began that I would never have thought possible. The emotional roller coaster is overwhelming, and I have no say in his cruel, cold hearted, cowardly decision to cut us out of his life. I have yet to read anyone here posting an apology for having more then one id. The one's doing it, still act as if they haven't been discovered.

I think this discussion is over.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Amen to that!

I admit to using 2 ID names, but I stopped using the first before starting the second, so I am still only the same one person. My reason, in case anyone cares (which I doubt) is that, as bornintheusa, I'd been becoming too abrasive in my posts, too reacting to some of the mean things people were saying. I decided not to continue that and to try to hold more to what I've been through estrangement, how I coped, how good things are getting now that it's over. My main goal is to try to bring support and hope to parents whose children have estranged themselves. If I have opinions different from others on the forum, I am trying not to attack, but to discuss positively or ignore, if necessary. This does NOT mean I'm going to turn into Ms. Perfect. It only means I'm trying to be a better person. Under my new ID I am trying to work on that, and I have no need to hide who I am or who I have been in the past (one and the same).

Anyone else, including Anniebal, Bloobird, and others, who are also trying, I applaud you all.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Two other posters seem to be gone in addition to the triumvirate - and they both had the same writing style as forms and cindylou...... lots of shouting through use of capital letters. Were there possibly 5 personas coming from one person?

I never truly thought magicgran was 90, but I did think she had some worthwhile thoughts until she went too far in one post. I always believed the other two (now possibly 4?) were either the same person or someone who had recruited friends who would support his/her position.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

I thought that recent events were very educational. I am sure that everyone who reads these threads has learned something that will benefit them.

We all make mistakes. We have the opportunity to learn from them.

My take on anniebal's adventure as Becky was not negative because I had been reading the threads for some time and had felt dismayed at the discord which was in fact made worse by some of the posts written by the triumvirate poster and then by others who felt supported in their own positions by the triumvirate poster. A gang gets to be a lot bigger when the ranks are swelled by the apparent presence of more who agree than actually exist. When Anniebal presented us with "Becky", there was an entirely different reaction to the clear outrageousness of Becky's actions and thoughts. This took the thread in an entirely new direction, one very different from the negativity towards the mothers here. One of more sympathy. I suspected very early on that Becky was not real but I enjoyed reading the different reactions than had been the norm on the board. Suddenly almost everyone was united against Becky. But then Becky turned out not to be Becky and everyone was mad. Including a member of the same triumvirate that had given anniebal a hard time in other threads. I didn't know till bloobird told us about ISP's that cindylou was part of a triumvirate. Bloobird knew but none of the rest of us knew.

So I am glad that anniebal had her Becky adventure. I understand that she feels uncomfortable with it now and regrets having upset anyone. I think that she is a very emotional person and that she tries to do the right thing and occasionally goofs up as we all do. I can see that things bother her easily.

I wouldn't be posting now under amomymous if it hadn't happened. I had created amomymous's name in case I needed to post but hadn't used it until this occurred.

I am glad it all happened. I never would have known about cindylou/magicgran/forms if this hadn't happened. I like to know if someone is somewhat real or not. I don't know what,if anything, was real in the cindylou/forms/magicgran posts or if that person is capable of being real. Maybe we would have liked her if she had been real. Maybe she can't be real. Maybe her behavior is a metaphor for her life.


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One other consequence

One other consequence of my learning about the ISP numbers and the existence of the three headed poster is that I am suspicious now of any new poster who subscribes to GW and whose ISP number shows them as being from a certain geographical area.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

amomymous -- fyi -- an isp number only shows where a particular server is located, not where a poster is located. And the fact that many isp numbers are dynamic, i.e., they can change, some more often than others, complicates matters.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Actually, based only on the outrageous coincidences, I suspected a troll, and I did warn them that they could be caught. But at that point, I hadn't looked at anything other than what was posted. The story was obvious enough. All I did was point out that it was easy to prove the authorship. Natalie did the real decetive work, pulling the original incidents out of different posts.

After all that, I can't help but laugh at the way the pot is still calling the kettle black. I guess that fine line between what makes using multiple IDs on a thread right or wrong gets a little blurred for some folks...

BTW, isn't signing up for a new ISP a bit drastic?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Yes, amsunshine, you are correct. In addition, most computers at a business will reflect the same ISP number; therefore, if there are multiple employees registered to and posting at GW from that address, all could show the same ISP.

However, having today off and time to waste - what a blessing - I think I've figured out the triumvirate is not made up of who most of us assume. Of the 5 individuals I've looked at, 2 seem to be from the West Coast and 2 are from the south; can't find any postings from the third individual.

Also, amomymous, your writing style gives you away. Unfortunately, I think the person stalking you will find you again through your style.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

amsunshine,

Yes. I do know that about ISP numbers. Thank you for mentioning it. I took that into account.

That is why it took me a while to research the ISP numbers. Because in some cases the same names use more than one ISP number. In some cases the ISP numbers change slightly based on things like routers. I'm not sure of the exact right terminology so if not routers, it is something else. But the numbers, the ending numbers do change in some cases. And the person can sign on from different locations with different ISPs. So if you spend the extra time looking, you find all of the ISP numbers that the names use and draw logical conclusions. In fact by seeing that, it makes it even more clear which names are the same person. I know about the different locations for servers and how some servers do not indicate where the user is located. But some servers are tied to geographical locations. So if someone uses more than one server and one is tied to a geographical location, then you can figure that they are likely in that area.

So it is not a simple case of: if x, then it is y. It takes some observation, knowledge, and interpretation. When bloobird mentioned ISPs, they weren't new to me. They were just new to me in connection with the pages of Gardenweb.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

fuzzy,

Yes. I know my writing style gives me away. I expect it.

But I would rather be harrassed under this name if my stalker wants to try to harrass me than under the other name. Which may make no sense to anyone here. I think that my stalker was hoping that I would respond to posts on Gardenweb without my knowing that it was my stalker.

When bloobird responded to my first post at length, in my mind it confirmed what I thought I already knew -- that the name bloobird was being used by my stalker. There were other coincidences involved in bloobird's postings (and name) prior to that which had made me suspicious. So I assumed, when bloobird posted at such length to my first post, that my stalker had been watching for me to reappear and jumped on my post. Which shows you how wrong someone can be about someone else when you make assumptions from someone's arguing style and the position that they take and odd little coincidences. But that was good that it happened that way or I would not have learned about the ISPs and the Gardenweb pages.

I have noticed in years past when I did research trying to figure out whom someone was that there are endless amazing coincidences on the internet. Just amazing! Don't bet money on anything that you think you know is true because of things that you find on the internet that lead you to a conclusion! Just when you think you have found a hot trail, it turns out to be a major wrong turn and it is nothing at all.

BTW I looked at the source code of other discussion groups that I participate on and can not find the ISPs in the code. So not all discussion groups have the ISPs of the posters in the pages.

I am quite sure that the triumvirate that I have mentioned does include the names that I mentioned. More than one ISP is used but the ISPs are used by the same names. I can't explain it better than that right now. And yes, one of the ISP's has a location that is different than the other location. But that is a big server where the user is not necessarily near the same location as the server. The other server used by the triumvirate names has a geographical location that would not be used by anyone in, say, San Francisco or Boston or Michigan.

In other cases of people using multiple names on GW, I am not saying anything because no harm is being done. So my lips are sealed and if someone else wants to figure all this stuff out, that is up to them. I already knew about those so when I saw confirmation by ISPs, I was not surprised. No big deal!


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test message

bloobird,

This is in response to your question about whether it is drastic to sign up with another server. I have used this other server for years. I don't use it any more for discussion groups. If it does what I think it will do, there should be another ISP shown for me with this post. I am going to sign off and sign back on with my usual server and see if it did that or not. I am actually on both servers at the same time.

This is not difficult. Someone just needs access to more than one server. But maybe I am wrong. I'll be back to check my own ISP and give a report in my next post.


 o
and the answer is yes . . .

Bloobird,

if you check the code, you will see that my ISP number for my previous post is different from my usual ISP. I didn't have to do anything fancy. That ISP number is the one for AOL. Which doesn't give any information about the location of the user and can be the same for many users (maybe all). Plus it is free if you use another server to access the internet. A piece of cake!

Which is why I can't tell if the ISP numbers that I found with the names that I suspect of being my stalker are being used by my stalker because they are AOL ISP numbers.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Lenoret and amomymous, thanks for your great posts, and your understanding.

Lenoret, I certainly can understand wanting a fresh start. I'm tring very hard not to take criticism so personally, since no one here actually knows me. I need to reflect more on what is being said, before I decide to post. This is a challenge for me that I'm hoping I can complete.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Bloobird:

In addition to what amomymous described about how to use different ISP numbers, as I said before, many ISP numbers are "dynamic" instead of "static", and they change from time to time. So the same user can have a different ISP, even using the same internet connection/account. Sometimes this can be done by just refreshing the ISP number on your computer -- sometimes it just happens overnight after you sign off.

Just doing my part to put this thread to rest! :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Static and Dynamic ISP addresses


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

amsunshine,

When the ISP numbers of the same server change, they only change within a certain range. It is usually the last one to three numbers that change. So when you find that happening and you want to search for that ISP number in a thread. you just knock off the last few numbers and search on the first part of the number.

For those who are interested and want to find out more information on specific ISP numbers including their ranges, here is the ARIN WHOIS link:

Here is a link that might be useful: Quetyiing ARIN's WHOIS


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

amsunshine,

IP numbers or Internet Protocol numbers, are not exactly the same as ISP numbers or Internet Service Provider numbers. I am not geeky enough to try to explain. My impression is that IP numbers refer to specific computers while ISP numbers refer to the Service Providers and can indicate many computers. Like the AOL ISP numbers are used by millions of users but those users would have IP numbers that would not be the exact same as their AOL ISP number. But the last few numbers of some ISP numbers can change. I guess the word is dynamically. Some people do use IP when they mean ISP and vice versa.

Good job trying to put this subject to rest! :-)


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PS. About that link

PS. to amsunshine,

The link you provided on Wikipedia was about IP numbers, not ISP numbers.


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Whoops -- you're right -- I was referring to IP numbers this whole time, instead of ISP. But actually, I thought the IP numbers were what this conversation was all about in the first place - those are what I would look at if I wanted to see if a person was posting under two different names.

How many now to go? 8 more posts?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

amsunshine,

LOL

After this one there will be eight posts to go. :-)

This conversation is about ISP numbers. We aren't able to see IP numbers. We don't have access to the IP numbers. Which is why the information has to be understood to be interpreted correctly. Otherwise someone could come to the wrong conclusion about what they have found.


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Seven more to go....

Ok, this is my last contribution for the day b/c I really have to go now -- only 7 posts to go!

Fascinating stuff -- I do actually think we are seeing the IP numbers. I look up my IP number (various ways to do it, but people can do it by going to the website below). Then, if I look at "view page source", I see my IP number on every post.

Here is a link that might be useful: Find your IP address


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

amsunshine,

The link that you provided is a Wiki link. So it is written by someone who is volunteering the information and they may not have written it correctly. I think that they are using the two terms interchangeably.

The ISP number (several including the Comcast one that I am on now plus an AOL number if I choose to use it plus a regional ISP that we use if we dial up instead of using broadband) that I have would be the same as what many other people have. If I followed the Wiki directions that you linked, I would probably come up with my ISP number which does not identify me personally and does not identify my computer specifically but would indicate which server I was using. That IP number would not be visible to anyone other than the ISP companies and not be available for others to see except by court order. Your individual IP number would be private.

The servers can tell when you or I go online because they can see an IP number for you or me that would identify each of us to them so that if we did something wrong and they needed to find us, they could do so.

If you look at this other Wiki page linked from the page that you gave, it talks more about these numbers and what they mean. I do think that the author may be using IP and ISP interchangeably.

If all of the IP numbers were in the code of the GW pages, then each name would come up with the same number every time. They don't. But the ISP numbers are in the code of each page and depending on which server the user is on, the numbers change. If they're on AT&T the number will indicate AT&T. If they are on Comcast, the ISP number will be a Comcast number. If it worked the way that you are thinking it works, then the number would not change no matter what server you are on.

If you go and try it by using different servers with your computer, you will see that the ISP number will change when you change the server.

I am beginning to overdose on geek speak.

When you did that search on your own computer, you came up with the ISP number. If you put it into the search box for the ARIN WHOIS database, you should see your server's information come up.


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Solve this puzzle

Okay, Before this thread dies, here is a question that I can't figure out the answer to. Why do some member names, like mine for instance, come up in GW member searches and some GW names do not?

I can't see anything in the membership settings for people to opt out of member searches. The membership pages are there for the names. But when some existing member names are searched in the membership of GW, they come up with no results?

Is there someone here who knows why and will tell us?


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

Yes, I'm aware that those numbers can be static or dynamic. I am also aware that it's possible to look up someone's address right down to the city and state, even for the mega servers like AOL. Amomy, I'm sure you can see that if you're trying to determine if an AOL poster is "your" stalker, narrowing down their geographical location comes in mighty handy, even if they do use multiple ISPs. I like to call that a "tactical strike". ("If you look right here, we can see this poster driving over the bridge...") LOL I mean seriously, who needs 5 user IDs?

It all comes down to a question of common sense and probability. Even with the national ISPs, ask yourself, what are the odds that out of the millions of people using a particular ISP, and living in one state, posting through one address, going to the same website, sharing an interest in one forum to the extent that they will register in order to be able to post, focusing on one specific thread, that they'll all agree with each other? If you want to also add that they all just so happen to work at the same building, heh, well, they're fooling themselves if they don't understand how transparent they are. It's not rocket science.

If you are onservant, it doesn't take long to pick up on the peculiar quirks and unconscious markers everyone has when writing. For example, along with frequently shunning the use of contractions, I get a bit dyslexic when I'm in a hurry. Meaning that although I am a decent speller, I tend to transpose ceratin letters. Some people go crazy with ellipsis......., some frequently CAPITALIZE, there are lots of little clues.

You can spend all kinds of time down that rabbit hole, but in the end, if you want to get rid of an abusve poster or a cyber stalker, the best way is to just write the Admin listed in the contact information for the server and file a complaint. All you need for that is the ISP number and the date/time the post was made.

"Why do some member names, like mine for instance, come up in GW member searches and some GW names do not?"
The short answer; because the GW search engine is clunky. ;^) But there are some things you can do to refine a search that might help you find what (or who) you're looking for. I'm sure you already know about it, but GW does have a search help page available. http://ths.gardenweb.com/search/help.html


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

bloobird,

About the AOL ISP numbers, the AOL numbers in the code that I see do not indicate the location of the user. Unless I and several other users all happen to live in the AOL offices in Manassas, Virginia. I can state with complete and utter confidence that I do not live in Manassas, that I do not live in Virginia, and that I do not share the same identities with the others here on GW who are signing in using that ISP number. There is no way to tell from that number anything about the user other than that they are using AOL. Sometimes an AOL number will indicate that the user is in the state of Washington. Something connected to AOL is in the state of Washington but it doesn't mean that the user is there.

(Note, if you didn't read my earlier post about my going online and posting with AOL, then this might not make sense to you, bloobird. So you'd have to go back and read that post and look at the code.)

To determine where an AOL user lives, you'd have to know their AOL user name which the ISP number does not give you. It doesn't even tell you that it is an AOL individual. It tells you that the person uses AOL. That is ALL it tells you. Even if you knew the user's name, if they hadn't filled out an AOL profile, that doesn't tell you where they live or anything about them. They can be quite anonymous.

I do NOT know that my stalker uses AOL. In fact I thought that they did not use AOL. I do know that they know enough about ISPs that they know that using AOL obscures their identity. And AOL is free if you access it by using another server as I do. So it is easy to sign up for AOL and use it if someone wants to for any reason. It is not good for being on the internet at it tends to kick you off. So someone could write a post and get kicked off before they submit it and then they'd have to write it again. That would be annoying. So I doubt that many use it for this purpose unless it is their only access to the internet or they want to obscure their identity.

As for my stalker, I don't think they are intending to harrass me if they are here or they would have done it by now. It may be that if the person is here that they are content just to have located me and to read the threads. That might be sufficient for them. It is someone whom I know and from whom I am estranged. I would not report them to anybody unless they did something pretty horrendous.

So I may go back to my other name. I haven't decided yet. I kind of like this name too. Decisions, decisions!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

YEAH....just a few more posts and this thread will be removed....it has gotten so far off of the OP subject that is it pitiful!


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RE: I am trying to move on! But, I get so mad.

"To determine where an AOL user lives,..."

Nah, all you need is the right software and an IP address. But since I don't plan on giving lessons for would-be stalkers so in the words of Forrest Gump: "that's all I'm going to say about that."

And either name is good, though I like the "Mommy-mouse- ness" of your current ID.


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