This is the survey for Parents who are Estranged from their Adult Children:
Click here to take the survey now

This is the survey for Adult Children who are Estranged from their Parents:
Click here to take the survey now.

If you don't acknowledge that some people benefit from estrangement, you can't truly understand what's going on to prevent or heal them. How can you heal an estrangment when on party believes 'my life is happier without you'? When one party doesn't want a healing?

I also doubt that anyone who comes to the conclusion that estrangement is their best option, or that their life may improve without the estranged party makes that decision lightly. They may have concluded that there are no other options, given that you cannot change other people's behaviors. It's not always a matter of that one party doesn't want healing.

Also, they may not be able to fully articulate why they reached the decision to estrange and more importantly they may not feel emotionally safe in discussing it, especially since there is so much judgement around the issue.

I fully agree with bucyn's statements. "If you don't acknowledge that some people benefit from estrangement, then you can't truly understand what's going on to prevent or heal them.

You said: "If you don't feel that it applies to your situation, then of course, there is no need to waste anyone's time!"

Idiocy. In this single sentence you've obliterated any hope of meaningful results from the survey. The curse of every such study: Anyone who doesn't fit the pre-conceived model is eliminated via frustration and/or refusal before the tabulation even begins. The result will be, as it almost always is, lettered academics professing knowledge gained from survey-studies that is shallow and bogus.

The problem is two-fold. 1) the voices being heard that either don't know how your question should be answered in their particular case or are lying to you for fun and/or 2) the voices (probably most of the desired group) that you'll never see or hear because they don't know you exist or, if they do, don't trust you and won't talk to you.

No matter. In the end, the author's name says "PhD" after it and somebody somewhere uses it to order other peoples lives for a fee. Value is assumed for the survey and its results before it's ever undertaken.

The beat goes on, apparently. But not with any cooperation from me.

Here's a story my stat prof used to demonstrate the difficult and subtle manipulation of survey questions:

Two priests were arguing about whether one could smoke and pray at the same time. After almost coming to blows over the question, they decided to write the pope for his opinion. To both their surprise, when they compared the pope's response they both claimed that the pope agreed with them. How could that be?

Then they looked at how the question was worded: "Sir, is it appropriate to smoke while praying?" the first priest had written, and the answer was strict and stern: "Absolutely not. Praying is a serious business and requires one's full attention and respect."

But the second had written: "Sir, is it appropriate to pray while smoking." and the answer was: "Certainly, prayer is appropriate at any time."

With all due respects to Bucyn's PhD ;), there are undergrads who could have helped construct a bettr survey.

I appreciate your comments...
Is there something that you think is missing?
I know people always have additional ideas, but I would love to have a general direction of something you think should be included.

None of us is here to do free high-value consulting for you, though I daresay I'd edit R. M. Gilbert's books for a steeply discounted fee.

THanks so much for asking! Conference isn't until next week, but I think I am ready. No I didn't discover that parents are unaware or that children are angry for valid or for petty reasons.. basically.. everyone has a point of view and it's interesting to see how many people have the same thoughts and feelings. What I learned is that contrary to some professor's/professional's beliefs.. this is not a "blip" on the radar screen and it is also not just a temporary hitch in life.. for many it is something they have dealt with for a long time.
I don't agree with you about it "running" in families.. I wouldn't call it that, but there is a whole study of family systems.. it's called Bowen Theory... you can look it up, but basically, if you look at a 3 generations of a family, in some way or other you will see "cut off" somehow repeated.. whether it's cut off between parents and children, siblings or divorce, etc.. Bowen also talks about "mates".
I am reading and understanding more about what he is saying and when you talk about "influences".. who better to influence you than the patterns that exist in your family ...after all .. that's what we see and how we learn early in life about human interaction and relationships.. for better or worse..
Of course, everyone's situation is different, and I certainly am not a therapist but I will tell you that to my surprise.. the majority of people who answered the survey, both on the adult children and the parents sides... were married.. and not divorced or divorced and remarried.
I agree that there are people who just don't/won't get it and will not be able to reconcile on both sides, and it is truly a shame. I know there are many on this site that feel that estrangement has been a good thing for them, and that might very well be true but it appears that there is a lot of fallout beyond just the few people that are in the thick of it... ie, Grandchildren, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc..
That being said, I totally acknowledge that each situation is different.....there is no one size fits all.
I guess that's why we are all here...

I did find this response interesting or how it was worded, "Did you discover that the parents are unaware and the children angry for valid or petty reasons?"

How would one go about defining whether a reason was valid or petty and who are they to judge? Maybe the reactions of judging someone's reasons as petty is part of the problem--not being open to really hearing what another person is trying to say. Who is going to open up to someone who dismisses and judges your feelings as petty and not valid. An attitude like that doesn't convey sincerity about desiring to resolve a problem.

Also, what someone may want to dismiss as petty could be the straw that broke the camel's back, when unaddressed problems and issues have really been simmering for years.

It doesn't surprise me that there is repetition of behaviors in successive generations. I would agree with the comment, "who better to influence you than the patterns that exist in your family...after all...that's what we see and how we learn early in life about human interaction and relationships...for better or worse."

Some people go through their lives thinking that because they were raised a certain way, that they are normal and everyone should behave and feel as they do. That demonstrates rigid thinking and a very narrow perception of what motivates other people. How someone would be able to reason with this type of unyielding and stubborn behavior is beyond me. My guess is that people give up and don't bother and that it just creates more distance. It's another reason contributing to poor communication and the resulting emotional distance. People who exhibit that type of behavior just want their way at the expense of everyone else and eventually the people around them will come to resent them. Sad to say it creates a lot of distance.

Discussions of repetition in successive generations is a very common theme addressed in psychology.

What I noticed on many of the parent's forums regarding this issue, is that so many parents, and even siblings tend to make sweeping generalizations and judgements blaming the spouses for the estrangement. It's probably much easier for them (the parent's) to blame a spouse as controlling or manipulative than to look at their own alienating, controlling and maniputive behaviors. It's very sad that they don't get it, or maybe they do get it, but refuse to take any personal responsibility. I think some people just cannot empathize with others and their need to be right at all costs is far more important than cultivating quality relationships with others. It is all about them.

These are very common themes in books dealing with family dynamics and you are right there is no one size fits all. I chose not to participate in the survey as I felt it was too narrow in scope and didn't fit my situation.

With that said I would still be interested in the findings.

Best of luck to you at the conference.

Just wanted to clarify the numbers..

260 Adult Children have looked at the survey,
121 have COMPLETED the survey

221 Parents have looked at the survey,
216 have COMPLETED the survey to date...

I agree with what you said about "validity" .. I am not here to judge what is valid and frankly.. that isn't what the survey was about...
The survey was simply a pilot survey.. yes, flawed I am sure, but there isn't a study out there about estrangement. I have contacted several researchers who have done some studies and some of the answers I got were things like.. very few people have this problem and if they do it's just a short phase... this survey on both sides reported that there are a good number of people who are experiencing estrangement and it doesn't appear to be a short phase...
I know that some complained that I didn't offer an option that allowed people to say that estrangement had been good for their well being, but I did offer the option to say that estrangement had not affected their well being. According to the survey reports.. across the board, both surveys reported that 70 -80% felt that their well being had been adversely affected on a number of levels.

As for the repetition in generations, either you subscribe to Bowen Theory or not, but multi-generational processes and triangulation are outlined, described and discussed. I realize they are common themes, that's why they keep coming up. If you agree with Bowen then these areas are explanations that need to be considered.

This survey was not designed to do more than establish that estrangement seems to be a growing problem, whatever the cause.. and the hope was that it might show the psychological community that there is a need to take a look at this.. there is a lot of pain on both sides. It also outlines some of the demographics..

I feel very fortunate to be chosen to present something like this and I am hopeful about the outcome. I thank everyone who has taken the time to respond and everyone who has written and supported this effort.

Thank you so much for your good wishes.. I hope I have something good to report!

Thank you for clarifying the numbers and the intent of the survey.

The comment about validity was directed towards reinventyrself and others who may have read her post. I've seen similar types of dismissive comments in estrangement posts.

I don't disagree with the Bowen Theory. My observation was simply that the theory is a common theme that crops up in family relationships and dynamics, which I'm very well aware of. However, other people who visit these boards may not be aware of it.

I also agree that these areas are explanations that need to be considered. With that said, it is doubtful that people who subscribe to making dismissive judgements about reasons being either valid or petty will open themselves to exploring explanations of family dynamics. Dissmissive attitudes convey someone seeking to blame and side-taking rather than cultivating an attitude of problem-solving. In my experience it is counter-productive.

Also in my experience, estrangement doesn't appear to be a short phase either. People are reluctant to open up and talk about hurtful relationships, especially when they frequently encounter unhelpful responses exhibiting stupid cliches, judgements or zero responsibility quick fixes.

"I know that some complained that I didn't offer an option that allowed people to say that estrangement had been good for their well being, but I did offer the option to say that estrangement had not affected their well being."

I cannot speak for others, however there is a world of difference to me between stating that estrangement is good for my well being as opposed to an option that says that estrangement had not affected my well being.

The distinction for me lies with an observation that Bucyn wrote above when she made the following statement, "...and that's why the wording of the questions is usually the weakest point of any survey."

This was an insightful observation as well, "Here's a story my stat prof used to demonstrate the difficult and subtle manipulation of survey questions." I would place greater emphasis here on difficult and subtle manipulation.

With that said I am not trying to be snarky or critical in a negative way. Wording and perception of intent, which I definitely would perceive from how something is worded does tend to influence whether or not I would choose to participate and also if I feel that it applies to my particular circumstances. I'm unimpressed with credentials and am not swayed by the self-importance of those who claim to have them. It's not indicative of self-awareness or the ability one may have for rational thought.

The only reason I decided to respond to your last post was that you took the time to clarify your intent and the numbers more fully and that was helpful.

I hope you have something good to report too and best of luck to you at the conference.

Flower

I couldn't complete the survey because question 31 requires an answer and I could not honestly check off any option.

Flawed survey.

I'd like to know how many lives have been limited or ruined via the original MMPI (Minnesota Multi-Phasic Inventory) believe copyright maybe 1936. Psychology/Psychiatry remain infant sciences yet they already control a huge portion of what any particular individual will be permitted to do. You do not have a broker or banker or teacher who hasn't "passed" their "test". "Surveys" like this one are their very-poor cousins. Pretenders to knowledge. Pretenders to protection. Pretenders to benefit for any particular purpose that may show up later in a courtroom.

What's left is ass-covering boilerplate the decision-makers can point to when something doesn't work out. In the event of failure, the line is: "We had no way of knowing. All the tests indicated..........."