How sad... You don't really give a good indication of what your relationship with your DD is like. Do you think you could contact her when her boyfriend isn't around, and tug on her heart strings? I think if you make it clear that you are not there to interfere with their life, or anything, you just want to be a grandma to her baby, maybe she will listen. She probably feels guilty about never paying you back, and for all the decisions she's made -- so I would NOT bring up any of those things right now. Just tell her you love the baby and want to see her, and you want the baby to have a grandma... I agree that they SHOULD pay you back, and get married, etc. etc. etc. but right now those issues will probably drive you farther apart. Good luck!

It sounds like you may need legal and psychological advice in this matter. If you think you do or might, then make sure to get it.

18 years old is a 'magic' number of course but it does not convey in one shot all the maturity of an adult. It also does not imply adult competence in the world or good judgement.

A person can have problems which interfere with their capacity to exercise good judgement. Some of these, maybe most, by themselves could be minor 'quirks' of no real problem. It is important to get an idea for whether these could be at work because it means your daughter and/or the father of your grandchild won't think or act 'normally.' Your own stress levels might benefit from seeing a counselor. You might be able to try to mend your relationship with your daughter some by working with a relationship counselor (with or without your daughter). They might be able to help you figure out if there is likely some problem requiring careful intervention of some sort.

Sometimes that cut-off approach works with young people. If their quirks are just quirks of individuality and not impediments to life accomplishments, they might begin to make progress and be able to get and hold jobs and the usual normal minimal required things. Try to detach a bit personally, and think about whether these things are now apparently being done adequately (if not better). If they have been successful let them know you have noticed that. The effective social transition to 'adulthood' isn't usually easy and people will generally make some mistakes. Some types of mistakes are more indicative of a real problem that won't go away than others are but in general that's kind of a developmental truism. Before the baby for instance, your daughter may have had a self-concept that was based on or included certain things relative to her role in the world and in her family. After the baby, and after the male friend and after behaviour which would predictably alienate other adults they were made to be more independent. Could they have predicted that seemingly (to an adult) obvious consequence? If their behaviour suggested that they really truly didn't anticipate that consequence, then you can probably conclude that they did not. That they didn't could indicate that one or the other or both has a real problem.

As a parent to one of the parents of your grandchild it sounds like there came a point where someone had to prod them a bit toward independence. It really does, and when people get poked and their sense of being supported is removed, they are often going to feel angry. It's predictable as a consequence that they might do what they've apparently done. They might not even view it as 'doing' anything on their part. Their experience has been that they were 'cut off' so to speak, and maybe not as diplomatically as possible. That may or may not (think about how things are for them now) have been effective in helping them to be more independent and 'adult.' If it was effective, then you and your husband probably have made what could be seen as a 'good' decision for the long term benefit of your child and especially your grandchild. That is, the trade off of this painful consequence will likely have been worth it when you can see your grandchild later.

basically, unless you opt to impose with the legal system (which will probably have it's own set of social consequences which may not be pretty), learning how to re-build a separate and more adultified relationship with your grandchild's parents will probably be a good way to earn their trust and good will (and have the natural result of you and them all having a more open mutual relationship) and it will also give you a chance to be a good adult role model for them as well as for your grandchild

P.S. Focus on your relationship with your daughter and how to let it develop to accomodate the level of independence she now has and has demonstrated (even if there was some questionable judgements involved). Be careful not to overfocus on just the grandchild as if they were an object, or as if they were independent of their parents. Young children are very sensitive to how others feel about their parents, and they are so identified with their parents that that hurts them and their development.

You haven't said if you also want to see your daughter. I think you will have to convince her that she is the most important person to you. Her mind may work along the lines of..."mother wants to see the baby, but she doesn't care about seeing me"

It's difficult, I know, but I feel that the situation must start to heal from the top....that is, with her. Then, and only then would you be welcome to share your granddaughter.

How are your relations with the BF's parents? Is there any hope of making friends with them? I know it's probably not much chance of that, but it may be worth trying. Have the whole bunch over for a cookout or something.

My rellaship with DD was not great but OK. She was the one that gave me the most gray hair. She would never stand for anyone telling her what to do. If I said the sky was blue she said it was red. Relastionship with boyfriends parents was OK just on speacking terms. They would never come over for a cookout. BF father speacks no english. We speck almost no spanish. BF is 31 now to DD 21 yrs of age. I almost know it is on his word that We are not allowed to see GD. Either he has lied to us from the begining or he is a real S----head . When his dd not our GD But was treated as same.
was with us noone could give her anything without asking him first. She could be crying for a drink but We had to find him and ask first even DD had to do same. But let his parents drive up and say We are taking her fron week . It was Ok. He says dd is his but We belive that when he was incaretted before he meet DD He lost custody to his parents.
From all this what do you think?

Get legal and psychological advice. If your daughter is in a relationship with someone who has to be asked permission, before anything happens which may remotely concern her partner the first thing to always keep in mind is that her relationship and her partner are not 'normal.' What that means is that, effectively it is not safe to assume anything in terms of what will or what will not be their (or his) response. You need to be very careful because there are people you love and value involved.

The problem is your daughter is 21 and she gets to be in charge of her relationships generally, even if her choices may seem unwise or even dangerous.

It's difficult to know how to respond. If he is controlling, and requires people asking permission does that also apply to his partner/your daughter? He might be that controlling, or to phrase it differently, his inner world might be such that he feels a 'need' to remain in control of all things (to him). If he has that kind of thing going on, he could react really really badly if he felt like he was losing that control or if someone tried to take it away. People who feel 'in need' of things can react violently and in desperation to prevent the loss of those things. They cannot be expected to know or to obey limits and this kind of reaction needs to be planned for and guarded against.

Can you, just as her mother and with no other agenda just meet with or talk to your daughter? Is it her choice or is an answer imposed by her bf? If you thought it could help your daughter to establish a relationship with anyone outside of her bf would you be willing to see the sky as being able to be any colour the viewer felt it was (whether they shared this or not, because different people can have different perceptions of the same situation)?

it's important to only act on probable, known information and with caution against any 'worst case' possibilities; you can verify facts of the past, or try to but be careful because if he is a danger to others those nearest him are people you probably want to keep safe

P.S. If what you want would entail your daughter no longer being in that relationship prepare to have her as a dependent for a while, and to treat her like an adult. If he was that controlling of her at home, she would end up having been conditioned to be more childlike than normal or healthy for a 21 year old. One predictable result is that she probably can't be expected to act like a 21 year old or an adult for a while. She might well need access to special resources like counseling and/or medical care for support and for healing. She will need to re-learn or maybe learn for the first time how to make a transition from 'dependent' to 'independent with support' to 'independent adult;' and even though it will be work for you because you both have a history of a challenging relationship, you should be ready for this eventuality. She may have some mental health issues that were unknown or unsuspected at the time due to her adolescent stage. By itself that is when people normally become quite challenging, but some people also have behavioural symptoms of mental/mood disorders which arise at that same time which makes everything even more chaotic than usual. Odds are more likely than not that something could be wrong simply because 'most' people don't get involved with or stay involved with partners who are generally socially obnoxious or obnoxious with one's own family... that includes people who make unrealistic or bizarre demands of them (like making them or having them ask permission to give a thirsty child a drink; or other things like that if they occur).

Well, there is a lot going on here. First of all, you guys should not have been so hlepful and neither should have the boyfriend's parents. I was 18 and I moved in with my boyfriend, got pregnant and we had a son. It's 4 years later and we struggled and had our families support but they did NOT hold our hands and help us through everything. It was hard and yes we got frustrated but you know what? I'm thankful we had to fall on our face and grow up. We did it fast and it was because we had to not because someone else was saying we needed to and doing everything for us. The only way I think your daughter and her boyfriend will ever grow up and appreciate what you're saying and have done is if they are forced out on their own.

As for your grandchild, I'm sorry you don't get to see her. There is some resentment going on that is forcing your daughter to keep her from you. I guess all you can do is try to call your daughter and apologize and be there for her. I know you're probably thinking, "Apologize? For what?" well, I'm pretty sure that you said or did something that you're daughter did not like. It may not be something you think was wrong but it upset her. Like did you maybe put her boyfriend down? Maybe he's not perfect and what you wanted for your daughter but that's not your choice. It's her life and her choice. She's now an adult and a mother and sometimes that's hard for a parent to realize. It took my Mom about a year and a half to break down and cry and tell me I was doing a great job and to apologize for doubting me, my fiance' and questioning his intentions and everything. Just try apologizing and approaching the situation differently. Be there but don't help too much. Don't let them rely on you for money or babysitting or stuff like that. They may get angry because you said no, but they'll learn and someday down the road, they'll wake up and realize you weren't so bad after all. Good luck...

~Leslie~

I know she is an adult and its her choice. I am not saying their are not treating her right. As I said in the first post all We said was that he needed to get a real job an support his own family. Why do we need to apagise for that. And we can't make his parrents quit helping them. We will galdly suport her and the GC but not BF & his other child also. She has been told this. I can not see DD unless I need medication for someone then I will shop at the drug store where she works just so I can see that she is still alive. She doesn't call her grandmother either. I think it is just her side of the family that he doesn't want anything to do with.

It sounds like he is completely controlling her. Is he perpetuating stories about you and your husband to control/influence her? Sure sounds like it to me. But yes, at that age, they think they know it all, so you'll just have to wait for something else to happen - like she'll get pregnant again and he'll do something stupid. Does he have several children with different women? I would not offer to support them at all - at 31 years old, I would think he could figure it out by now. He has a responsibility to his two (or more) children and your daughter, and he obviously is not living up to it. Sadly, she cannot see this. (or maybe she can but can't/won't get out of the relationship)

He's probably used to getting catered to by his parents whenever he wants something, and when the cash flow stops on your end, unfortunately so does visiting rights. What a load of crap. I'm sorry you have to deal with this and I hope you get this worked out.

the BF has one other dd that he claims is his. ( I think his parents have custody) He has two boys that he3 does not claim. He says his ex says they are his but he does not belive it. Have you every heard of a divorce degree where both parents must live in the same town. Boys are suposed to live with mother one year & with him next except he hasn't seen them for 5 years, BF has been maried and divorced once , has had a live in grilfriend one other time that we know of. Also something else has happened DD is PG she called GM first phone call to family in 5 mo. Over a year if you don't count the time they lived with us. craftmom_9

Well geez - didn't I say she would get pregnant! I should be a psychic. (No I'm not saying "I told you so," I'm just surprised that it happened after I hypothesized it might.)

Anyway, it sounds like this guy goes around getting women pregnant. How many kids does this guy have (or think he has)? How disgusting. And he is 31 years old! Unfortunately, if your daughter doesn't see it now, she will find out sooner or later how big of a loser this guy is. Sounds like he has her just where he wants her. Like Leslie said, I would support her emotionally, but not financially. They are both old enough and should be doing it for themselves and their children. From what your profile says, it sounds like you have enough to take care of with nine children! :) (Is she the youngest?)

Craftmom,
I haven't checked in here since my last post until now. What you said was true and I agree that he needs to pull his own weight and care for his family, however, if you ever want to be close to your daughter again, you need to make some sort of step or you're going to have to sit and wait until she decides to come back to you. You want help with your situation and we understand but we can't make her come back and you can't make her see that you only spoke the truth. No matter how you feel about her BF, she obviously loves or cares for him on some level and she will stand by him for however long. I was suggesting you apologize to clear things up so you can be with her again and try to remain neutral with things. Don't discuss money or their situation too much. Keep your nose out of it and allow your daughter to learn on her own. The bf may change and straighten up and be an okay man or she may see him for what he's worth and leave. I know it will be hard to keep out of their personal life, but wouldn't that be better than not seeing your daughter or grand baby again? Or even the next grandchild that's on the way? Just love your daughter and grandchildren and be there when she needs you but don't offer advice or too much help. We learn from our mistakes and choices and they make us who we become later in life.

~Leslie~

More info I sent DD aletter asking her to meat me at the library just to talk. She called me there at least. Would not come talk. With are without GD. Did not tell me about being PG. Would not give me new address. Just complained that Hospital still has her & sister mixed up & she is getting sisters bills. Would not tell me where she was working now.

It started over again. More problems with DD. A family friend was at DD house babysitting. She called Brother to another Dd's BF. He called and told us Friend was at this phone call her. Other DD did we all talked to friend. I asked if she could find out what went wrong. DD called me this morning mand cursed me out for even calling. (which I Didn't) Said if I or anyone else living with me ever Phones
again I would be prosecuted and she would change her number again. She said that they DD & BF had suported us while they were living with us. By buying food once or twice a mo. I don't belive that pays for all baths extra electric & water they used. Also that she was outside & heard what DH said to BF. IF so I wonder who was sitting in the house with me & baby. When BF came to door & told her to pack his & his dd clothes. Doesn't that sound like he was leaving her to you? I guess when DD grandmother dies are gets ill and has to be put in a home she won't know about it since I can't call her. The rest of the family does't have her phone number
so they can't pass the word. I appreciate everyone for listening to me, and beliving me, I know you really can't do anything else but that much helps. THANK YOU craftmom_9

It sounds like all you can do is cut her loose. I'm sure it really hurts, but you have no other choice. Your DD is an adult.

It's craftmom again. If I start sreeming about this
By the time I am finished with this post Oh well thats nothing. I've been in tears since fathers day.

Next post on new tread will explain better.
My younger Dd has had sexaul abouse done to her. This DD heard about it and got CPS involed. I had already taked her to hospital & reported it. DD is now trying to take younger Dd away from us. Still not talking to us. Be sure to read new thread. & put us in all your prayers.Which is about all that can be done right now.
Thank you craftmom