I think you just do the best you can while they are young. Once they are grown, they will be the person they want to be - you have no control over it.

I have a sister that can be such a pain - self-centered, drama-queen, constantly having fits about things, not happy unless she is unhappy. I often wondered how and why she is so different than the other three siblings. For years I blamed my parents for spoiling her. So, I think it is 50% parenting and 50% them being who they want to be.

My take is:
a. mental illness. People think it has to be severe - but people can be fully functional. i.e. bipolar or borderline personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder.

and b. As they go through life, people are influenced by others besides their families. And if they are weak-willed individuals they won't stand up for themselves and they turn into completely different people. You will find this to be true in abuse situations.

It is really terrible.

classact, When my daughter was 26, I would have described the relationship that I had with her then as being fine, normal, excellent. In fact, it was when she was about 27 that a friend of mine was telling me about her son who had estranged himself from her. Also, about then the estrangement between Roseanne Barr had occurred between her and her parents. I wondered a lot back then about Roseanne's parents and what the truth was. They passed lie detector tests. The Roseanne Barr story certainly got my attention but as far as my relationship with my daughter then, I thought, "I am so very fortunate. Nothing like that will ever happen to us."

As for my friend back then and her estrangement from her son, I listened to her and sympathized and wondered why he was acting that way. I felt a little bit smug that the relationship with my daughter was so excellent and that an estrangement would never happen to us.

Then within two years, the unthinkable began. At that time my daughter was not diagnosed with any disorder. I had had no inkling that she had any disorder. What occurred was a major shock that I didn't see coming. If I had to relive it, I still don't think that I would have seen it coming. We used to spend hours on the phone talking. Later she criticized me for those same phone conversations. At the time we had the conversations, I had no clue of anything that she didn't like or anything else that she wanted to talk about. In fact I don't think there was anything else she wanted to talk about. I think she just decided not to like me any more. Chances are that the bipolar disorder was already there and maybe other things as well.

sc gardener, I agree that many people with various mental health problems can be fully functioning individuals. I know people like this in my business. On a bad day it is obvious that they have a problem. On other days you can't tell that there is anything wrong.

I agree too about the influence of other people. The influence can be in all sorts of ways. Someone doesn't have to control another. Sometimes spouses and significant others would rather keep the peace in any way possible than get into a fight over someone's bad behavior or strange thinking. So sometimes it isn't the daughter or son being weak and not standing up to a controlling person. Sometimes it is that the other person doesn't have the gumption to tell the person with a problem to get themselves to a therapist because they are not okay. They let the situation go on and on and on as they humor them.

Ginny

You are spot on, sc gardener, except that I would not use the term "weak willed" but rather "those with low-self esteem."

The pendulum swings both ways with mental/self esteem issues. There are plenty of parents who have issues the kids had to endure growing up and still endure as adults. Many adult "children" cope with it and life goes on. But then there are the "children" who cannot deal with it. I don't think all estranged children are mean nasty people who have nothing better to do than to make their parents miserable.

Along the same line I don't understand why a sexually abuse child can forgive being abused and still hang around wanting the parents love. I know many very good parents who's children are estranged over nothing near as serious as abuse, usually the child throws their family's love away because of money. The estrangement with my youngest son happened over a period of years, so it wasn't as painful as one just walking away and never coming back. As a matter of fact I was relieved, nothing changed in their treatment of me. The calls for money just keep coming about every 6 months. The last time I talked to my son, he called for money and he cussed me out when I said no. When I moved I got an unlisted number so he has to go through my Mom, my sis answered the phone and he ended up cussing her out.

I never understood the adult child demanding money from parents. Most people I know who are upset with their parents or estranged has to do with boundaries. There are some parents who feel the need to constantly tell their adult children how they should live their lives. I have a friend who announced to her mother that she and her husband were expecting their first child. The mother looked at them and asked why anyone would bring a child into this world and walked out of the room. And before anyone asks, her husband is great, she was happily married 4 years before having children and they are still married 15 years later...and still happy. Go figure.....

i think it is a lot to do with boundaries. or rather lack of them. when either kids or parents have no boundaries and keep up pushing until one side gives up and estranges themselves.

My SO's older DD has very poor relationship with her mother and it seems like she might be going towards estrangement from mom.

First of all adult daughter (26) gave her mother H*ll for moving in with her boyfriend without asking her daughter a permission. ha Mom is her 50s and is divorced and can do what she wants to in her own house. DD lives two hour flight, out of state!

Then DD didn't like mom's BF, oh well, tough luck.

then she always asks for money (she has a very well paid job, she is paid the same as her mother) so mother says "no". DD asks money and expensive gifts all the time and her mother needs to save for retirement.

Then her DD threw a fit that mom got her cheap gifts for Christams, well mom has poor taste and didn't know what to buy.

Then DD said she is getting engaged. Nobody knows the guy. Mom said please let us get to know him first, bring him home, do not get engaged to someone we have never met. DD threw a fit.

So now mom actually distanced herself from her daughter and limited contact, doesn't call as much etc. DD complains about it, but I told my SO that with the way DD treats her mother no wonder mother distanced herself. DD makes her life unberable with constant demands and drama. Mom has rights to ahve her life when kids are grown.

Needless to say older DD has great relationship with her father because he never says "no", gives all the money she wants and allows DD to run his life. So of course he will never be estranged because he satisfies her every need! But I feel for the mother, how much can she take?

So are those parents who refused to be doormats are the ones who end up estranged?

I don't think being a strong parent is what makes one a likely candidate for being estranged from their children. I was referring to parents who can not let go even though their children have proven themselves to be productive human beings and not mooching off the parents every chance they get. As for doormat parents, I would think they would find themselves at a bigger risk for estrangement. I mean, they give and give and give until finally enough. It's when the doormat quits giving the kids stop calling and turn on the parent. I don't know....there are so many issues involved when people cut off relationships with family members.

I think door mat is right on. My husband could not tell his daughter's no. Most children need help when they move away from home the first time, but it went on until they were close to 50 years of age, well actually until he died at 80. If he had set boundaries up front maybe they would have learned to manage their money. They got their paycheck, went shopping and guess what.....they didn't have enough money to pay their bills. His daughter and her husband both worked at an aircraft plant, together they made twice what my husband did and they borrowed from us.