"Our parties are very casual-usually BBQ's or early beach parties. There has never been a time when the kids have not been there. "

Normally, I would completely agree that adult parties are not for little kids. But it sounds like a neighborhood culture has evolved that includes them -- and for neighborhood parties, this sounds wonderful.

If your planned event is more along the lines of a BBQ and/or beach party than a cocktail party, I'd include the kids. Maybe hire an older teen to coordinate some activities for them and keep them happy and out of the way? Not necessary certainly, but a very gracious thing to do.

I guess it has to be one way or the other. Either EVERYONE can bring kids, or NO ONE can bring kids. If you don't want to step on anyone's toes, that is the only fair way to do it, period.

Personally, I'd opt for providing a sitter and having kids..ONLY if no alchol is involved...and they can have thier own "party".

Vickey-MN

Generally I'm all for adult only parties, but in your case, it doesn't seem like you're really after an adult only party, but rather that you just want to be sure that a particular child is excluded from your parties.

Obviously, it's your party and you can invite who you want to, but if you're having a casual BBQ and the kids used to be invited, I would guess the mom is gonna to be upset if nothing has changed but that the kids are all of a sudden not welcome anymore. And, I'm not sure I've ever been to a BBQ type party where kids weren't welcomed. Even work parties include them.

I have a feeling that if you ever have kids, you will feel differently about your friends boy being a little monster. I have a 3 year old and I don't think any of his friends are really controllable at that age. The fact that you would mention biting as if only a "crazy boy" does it is laughable....more kids try biting at that age than don't. Almost all 3 year olds are uncontrollable. Haven't you heard of the terrible twos?

You can either take your friend...with her "normal"-to-me sounding kids or not. This may be why people with kids and people without them often grow apart from one another, but I would suggest you either invite the children to your family friendly sounding party, plan an adult only type party where no one would take offense if kids weren't invited, or just accept that she may become offended enough to lose her as a friend.

Yes, there are people that seem to have to bring their kids to everything and they get on my nerves (I had a large adult only wedding so I'm not all that kid friendly), but you also have people that are, and, how can I put this...'kid haters' and just really don't want kids around even at family type events. If this kid's biggest offense is letting out some screams at a BBQ and he's not tearing up the house or breaking things in the china cabinet, then I'd personally let him be. There's really no reason to exclude him just because he bit some kid at preschool--LOL

I don't have children so maybe I look at this differently. We have been invited to many functions where it wasn't really stated that it's not a "kid" function but common sense would say it's not and parents bring their kids. I don't have children for a reason and it's not so I can "babysit" someone elses children while they enjoy an evening out.
I have on several occasions been at a function and been asked to watch someone's child for a moment while they are tied up with something else at the time. Or I've been visiting with a group of people and had a child act up and not a parent in site to step in.
This is a huge pet peeve of mine. If we know that it's a functions where families are invited and kids are going to be there it's one thing but when it's an evening for adults then I think parents need to use some common sense.

I guess until now I have only been around "abnormal" children who do not hit adults, purposefully step on flower beds, or tell their parents how it's going to be!. I know everyone has a bad day-even kids, but this is all the time!It's interesting how the responses here have been different from the opinions of co-workers an other friends-all who have kids! Most of my other friends kids are older, but when they were two or three, they still weren't quite as disrespectful. There were always "consquences" for bad behavior. Even when they were little. I thought children were supposed to be taught boundaries and consistency? I think it's a little unfair to say if I had children, I would feel differently. I love kids. This is why I was hesitant to even mention the fact that I'm childless. I know all kids are different, but isn't certain behavior just not acceptable? I will invite my friend and her kids-I wouldn't want to hurt her. I just hope she doesn't get mad at me when I politely ask her son to not throw rocks in my pond! Thanks for some food for thought.

It sounds like it isn't the presense of children that bothers you, just this particular child. Or, really, any child who would behave this way. Parents see their children as an extension of themselves. So if you don't accept this child, your friend will feel you're rejecting her as well.

If you had a friend who's husband was a real jerk, always got drunk at a party, told insulting jokes, had poor table manners... yada, yada, yada.. would you considering having a "wives only" party in order to avoid that husband? (At least the child will grow up. LOL.)

I think if you want to host an adult event, by all means, have one, it's your prerogative. As hostess, your party should be the theme you want. Even if every other party you've ever had was family friendly, it's OK to say "this time, let's do something more grown up."

I also believe your house, your rules. If you do plan a family friendly function and a child is throwing rocks into your pond, stepping on your garden or hitting you or other guests, you have every right to correct him, send him away from the pond/garden, tell him "we don't do that at my house" and lead the little offender to his parents.

I do have children, 4 of them, and spend a lot of time with other mothers and their children. Some of the children do not behave as I expect my children to behave, and the mothers have lower expectations. Just last week we were at a local site with a gift shop. The child broke something in the gift shop. The mother either didn't see, or pretended not to. I picked up all the pieces, turned the child around and said "Open your hands" and gave him all the pieces. Then said "Take this to your mom and tell her what happened." By then, all the moms were watching me open mouthed. I don't think I was out of line. When that mom wants to go out to lunch, I won't go b/c I know I'll be embarassed by her kid's behavior. So it's not just something that bothers childless adults. Us parents can have little patience for behavior that we know from experience is correctable.

I think if you correct this child a few times, he'll know not to cross you. And regardless of how he behaves somewhere else, he'll start to follow your house rules. Sometimes they are more intimidated by non-parents and listen better. And if makes you feel any better, this is probably not a permanent thing with this child. A year from now, he'll probably have more self control and it won't be so much of an issue. Some children are harder to manage than others, approval just doesn't matter to them and they'll test the line more than their more cooperative siblings. So if you can be patient, work out a compromise for the sake of the friendship, this little bump in the road will work out.

Both of these kids have always been welcome in my house. I have never hosted a party with this particular group of friends, just anticipating on how to approach the situation. I have just been witness to other friends events so far. I know everyone parents differently and every kid is the different. It is hard to explain the particular situation via internet, so many details are misinterpeted and it's difficult to convey the "exact" situation. It's not like talking to a friend who knows the players. That being said, I appreciate the different points of view.

I really think once you have a child or two, you will have a different perspective...especially since you said the older child was so well behaved, it makes me think this isn't a parental control issue, but rather that you really don't know what 3 year olds do.

Some are shy, some are wild, some act up sometimes...A 3 year old can't really understand enough to "purposefully step on flower beds" ..age of reason is like 6 or 7. I know what you meant, he's just out of control...but that's many/most 3 year olds.

And, I know you think your kids would/will be well behaved, never hit anyone, and sit quietly still at a party not making any kind of mess. And, I'm even going out on a limb here and guessing that you're sure you would never ever bribe them with M&M's to go on the potty. But believe me you're kids won't be perfect. They'll probably forget more often than not to say please and thank you, words will come out of their mouths that you've never even said (usually at some place like church), and, yes, you probably will even offer M&M's for a good bowel movement. And there will be childless friends/relatives that too will be looking at you shaking their heads...and you will smile to yourself inside knowing someday they will know.

I just don't want you to lose a good friend over this when you are probably going to need her help and advice when you have to go through the same type of things with your own kids. Believe me, at least on some things, you will be eating your words. If you really, really wanted an adult only type party that's one thing, but don't exclude this kid just because he is being a kid.

What does your friend do when her child is throwing rocks into your pond? It shouldnt be your responsiblity to tell him not to! Maybe that is why you are feeling this way because she isnt disaplining him as she should...and if that's the case I totally know how you feel. I have had many friends whom I love being around~yet they dont say anything to their kids when they are doing things I find very offensive in my home.
Or otherwise...my husband and my daughter and I were at Walmart the other day.This couple came in with two kids.One,a three year old boy who screamed bloody murder the ENTIRE time he was the store (a good hour and a half!) Everyone was giving them dirty looks and wondering why the heck the parents werent trying to stop this! The parents acted like they didnt even notice and chose to ignore their sons screaming rather then either :
1) Have one of the parents take the kid outside
2) Tell the kid if he wants something to cry about he can have a real reason
3) Try to distract him or something so he wasnt bothering everyone else

My daughter who is 9 even said,"Geez,I'm never having kids"
after seeing this kid.
What bothers me is parents who let their kids run the show and act like that. Even at 3 my daughter never acted like that...and if she did,there would be a consequence.
It's really not even the child's fault if the parent is letting them get away with it.Maybe they feel guilty about something or are just being lazy,but they need to disapline their kids.Exspecially while at others houses.They may think being easy on the kid is being nice,but a bad idea when parenting.They need bounderies and structure.
Obviously your friend has one good child though,maybe she just doesnt know how to deal with one who isnt quite so.Still,she should respect the other grown-ups houses and be on top of her kid when he id doing something he shouldnt be.

One should accept all that a friend is and loves, tolerating what they lack or have (even if it's just in your eyes), that's what makes you friends. Knowing children, it could very well be a phase that passes, and you've lost your friend over what turned out to be an insignificant thing.

I think it depends how much you like the friend. Are you prepared to "put up" with the child's behaviour for the sake of the friendship with the parent ?

I must admit, over the years, I have just stopped asking certain parents and children to my house because the children where not behaving like I would want them too.

We all clash with other parents because they dont control their children the way we think they should.

If you like the parents and want to continue with the friendship then I would "put up" with the child and just relax and enjoy your day. Remember to enjoy yourself !

BTW my son also used to bite, its quite normal but is annoying ! I think he was about three.

Popi

When you invite the couple with the offensive 3 year old....just say "hey...we thought we'd keep this party just to adults this time. Do you mind?"
Linda C

I feel bad when I see the comments, just wait until you have kids and you would feel different when you have your own kids. Boy those comments just steam me so much. When I was teaching full time, I used to get those comments from parents everytime a problem came up when dealing with students. Just because a person doesn't have children doesn't mean that they can't see when a child is out of control and not want to deal with it when they are socializing. Anyone could see when a child is tromping through the flowers, hitting and throwing rocks, and know that it isn't behavior for that setting. The bahavior might be normal ( biting, running around) but it still a party with others is not the setting.

Just to let you know that I do have 2 children one almost 4 and one almost 2 with another little one on the way so now I do have kids. I also know that my monsters will pick the time when we are out shopping or at someones house to show off their "other" side LOL. But it isn't fair to say "Just wait until you have children", just because you don't have a dog doesn't mean that you can't recognize a dog peeing on your guest's leg is wrong.

Stacie

Stacie,
Well, I understand your opinion, but I personally still do disagree with you. I can't really believe that you don't feel at least a little differently about things after having kids. :)

I just don't think people without kids can really know what it is like to have kids and discipline them. And, granted, sometimes it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell if a kid is a problem child... but IMHO "problem children" don't usually start so young and the examples she gave didn't that suggest to me that he was a devil child (I didn't see the words fire or hospital or microwaving cat in any of her examples--LOL). He sounds to me like a regular 3 year old...

"He has bitten not only his brother, but a little girl at pre-school" (oh, no, call the cops!) and she suggested he "tells his parents how it's going to be" (yep, looks like Juvy to me). Ummm, don't all/most three year old act like this? These are the things I think she will "get" as being normal after she has a child of her own.

And, if she doesn't want as much as a rock kicked out of place or any kids at her party for any reason, that's her perogative. But to suggest there is something majorly wrong with the child or the parenting so much so that they would have to be discluded from the party whereas if he were more mannerly he would be welcomed, is just wrong, IMHO

So, yes, I still do believe she will think differently when she has kids. And, I'm sorry if that hurts her, your, or anyone; maybe there's is a nicer way to say it, but I would bet big, big money on it.

And here's a funny one for you, I remember my friends little boy peed in the yard at a party once. Most people without kids gasped, the adults with kids were laughing. You just see a different perspective to things when you have kids. It's just a little easier to see things as laughable and cute, rather then annoying. Hey, I was childless once, too...I know how annoying kids can be.

FYI:

People always malign the "terrible twos" I have always thought in my experience that 3 is WAY worse. I think that is the only problem with this kid. He'll grow out of it hopefully.

I still think if a child is being deliberately destructive or violent that is is unacceptable whatever the age and the child should be disciplined. And you should call such behavior to the child's parent's attention if they are too clueless to notice.

Esp. at parties, the parents might be too involved in talking and may be drinking, and not notice their kid's unacceptable behavior.

Stacie,I feel much the same way as you do...and yes,I DO have a child as well.It seems like a cop out kind of excuse for a parent not wanting to igknowledge their child is misbehaving by saying "You dont have kids so you dont understand,or wait until you have kids"
All little children do things that they arent supposed to.My point isnt against the child...it's the parent who either ignores the behavior because they are in denial,is too lazy to correct the child,or cant even be found because they are sitting on their rear somewhere expecting other people to correct and watch their child.

First children seem to be little angels. Second child are usually a lot more active and get into more things. From what little we know, I think the mom is worn out from being the caregiver all the time and the little boy is a lot more active than his big brother and probably gets into more stuff, but doesn't get corrected by mom because she tunes it out.

Like someone else said above, set the rules for your own house. The little boy will follow your expectations if you let him know what they are.

I don't think this is a case where not being a parent is an issue. I'm a parent and there are children I don't like to be around because they are undisciplined or whiny all the time. All kids act up, but if a child is doing it all the time, there is something wrong at home.

I appreciate everyone's opinions on this matter-now let's just let this post drift to oblivion-OK? The bottom line is-we all have to agree to disagree. Plus-you never know who is reading these posts in the first place. Maybe it's the person who is the subject!! Thanks for the insight!

So you're the person who wasnt invited to the party because of your kid then??? Hey,dont take it personally.I havent been invited to parties because I have a child before.It is less about how my child behaves and more about how people without kids dont always want them there.
In fact,it's a huge debate in the "is it rude not to invite children to weddings?" topic or something.

I'm sure you are a lovely mom.Why would you post saying you are the person throwing the party though? To get your friend's perspective?

Ha Ha!
Thanks for saying I'm a lovely mom-but this post IS about a friend of mine! I don't have kids-I wish I did! I haven't had any parties yet. Just anticipating how to deal with it!
Coolmama-I thought your response was as close to my own opinion regarding the situation. I guess my last post made you doubt my intention on asking this question. Maybe I'm afraid my friend will SOMEHOW find this post. Doubtful-but possible!

I know how you feel,I often worry about someone finding things I write,cuz I have posted many family issues. I wouldnt want to hurt anyone's feelings...but sometimes ya just need an outside perspective from people not close to the situation,ya know?
I hope it works out for you.

I think you have every right to deem certain functions as adult only. Considering the vast majority of your group do not have children, I think everyone has been very generous in allowing the children to attend every event. It's perfectly acceptable to tell people with kids that it is adult's only this time, then it is up to them to attend or not.

Having said that, one set of children cannot be permitted to attend an adult only function while excluding others. The only exception, IMHO, is a wedding where space and budgetary limitations are evident.

I had an adult only wedding. The only children invited were my niece and ex's nephew b/c they are family. Kids over 13 were also welcome, but no one under that age straight across the board.

ugh. Some peoples' kids. LOL!

Actually, my tolerance is low, not for the kids per se, but for parents who don't teach their children how to behave. Sure, laugh if you want to that Billy just peed on my lawn, but by golly I'd expect you to then stand up and walk over and explain to him clearly that the p goes in the pot.

Parenting is about teaching and developing, not just observing and defending!

Well, in the kid's defense, the peeing incident did occur in his own yard--LOL. I sort of thought that maybe it was 'allowed' at times because the family had a pool and I'm guessing the parent didn't want to have to bring in all the kids whenever one kid needed to go, so maybe they allowed yard peeing. (I don't really know???). He was only like 2. I'm just glad that most people laughed; to tell you the truth if the parents would have started sermonizing the kid in front of everyone, it would have been a downer for the entire party. I think the mom may have pulled him aside to talk to him a little later, but she didn't do it in front of people.

Looking at it from a different perspective...I have to admit, I often find a lot of parental disiplining worse than the kid's crime. I just don't think guests should have to be subjected seeing parents spank and "keep their kids in line" at all times. I would rather see little Jason throwing some rocks out of place, then spanked and throwing a tantrum and crying frantically from being disciplined. Sometimes you have to weigh what is really most respectful for the other guests/host. I'm guessing some parents may wait until they get into the car to go home to start their disciplining.

Yeah,but what if the crime the kid is doing is the frantic crying and screaming for NO REAL REASON as I said the kid at walmart was doing? Should everyone else have to be subjected to that cuz the parent cant control their kid?
I agree little things arent worth the effort if it will cause a scene.Unless it is at someone else's house and they are doing something the owner of the house would find very offensive. Like,grabbing an expensive vase or something and throwing it around...or,jumping on their furniture...hitting their dog...

Do you really want me to answer--LOL

OK, I once let my kid cry at the store and just stood there waiting for it to pass...I just didn't care...you know why I did nothing? I just had a D&C for a miscarriage and wasn't allowed to pick him up and just didn't have the mind set to really care. I bet no one there knew that.

I have a nephew who often acted up in stores. You know why he did? He had a cleft pallet and was unable to eat and sleep properly and was in an out of hospitals more time in 6 months than anyone could imagine. He was a very fussy baby. And, yes, he yelled in stores regularly.

What about the kid who is sick but whose mother has to take him out to get the medicine, milk and essentials that he needs. Maybe she's single, maybe going through a divorce, maybe her mom just died. I don't know.

I can honestly tell you the last thing I want to hear when I go to the store is a crying kid. I cringe because when I shop alone, it's often the only time I am without my kids so I really need the peace and quiet. But, still I don't judge what is going on. If I can, I do try to distract the kid myself to help the mother of the crying kid out and I pass her a "it will be ok" smile. I guess I could give the mom a dirty look instead, but why? I'd rather give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and try to help them and the situation than just judge without knowing what is going on in her life.

Now adults that let their kids climb out of carts, and whose idea of disciplining is hitting, dragging or shouting at the kids may get a dirty look from me. I guess in general I just feel that a small kid acting up at a store has more to do with a child's temperament, age, health, or nap time than it does his parenting.

All the examples you listed were serious ones though.I guess you dont know anyone who the parents just let the kids go buck wild. I know too many,and they dont have any serious issues.
The kid at walmart was screaming because he wanted OUT OF THE CART.That was all. For an hour and a half the parents let the screaming go on.
My point,Most parents wouldnt let their child scream like that over something so small. The mom and the dad did nothing.I wasnt judging,but when you have the people who work there all looking upset too and making comments about it,there is a problem.
Having a D&C or a sick child is totally different. A lady made a comment to me when my daughter was crying because she had poison summac real bad while waiting in line for her prescription at CVS. You can bet I told her to mind her own business.
Yet,when it is just an average day,nothing is wrong.maybe you are at someone's house,and the child wants to throw a fit,I think the parents need to do their duty.That's all I'm saying.

Kids at adult parties is an oxymoron.

It's very simple really. An adult party is for ADULTS ONLY. No kids unless the hosts say to bring them during the invite. The host's kids are the only exception and the proper thing would be to have a sitter for them if they are young or pack them off somewhere for the night. Period.
Weddings are are for the persons named on the invitations. NO one else is invited...not kids, not your sister, not grandma. If the name is not there then the person isn't invited. Period.

Stores are business facilities. They are not playgrounds nor daycare centers. If your child must come with you then you must be in control of said child. When a child is in an adult environment for any reason it is up to the adult in charge of that child to be in charge. Period.

I get really tired of all the posts trying to twist and turn things to suit their personal desires regarding their children. It's not about you or your kids...grow up.

I had kids and I raised them to have respect for the environment they were in. Out in public or at someone's home they were to behave. If they didn't....we left. Yeah, I missed out on things but that's what parents do.

My first had really bad colic and would start screaming at some of the most inopportune times. I've had to walk that mile. I never stayed where others had to be exposed to that. Even in a restaurants the food was packed to go while I waited outside.

With the exception of a sick child waiting in line at the pharmacy their is no excuse what so ever to force other's to cope with your children being children.

If you want them to be able to run around and be kids take them to the playground, a kid's pizza place or a playmate's home. When they are in a public or private space not specifically set up for the needs of children YOU deal with it or don't bring them in the first place.

wildchild - what you just described is exactly how I was raised. We did not raise fusses at a person's home - when we were invited - because most functions were adult only and we stayed at home with a sitter. When we were included, you bet your sweet patootie we were on our best behaviour.

wildchild,

I guess I could be reading the wrong post. I didn't think this post was just about kids going to an adult only party. I think that is another post. Did you read this one? I thought this was about a certain individual child being excluded at a family type party where kids have always been involved and where there could be other kids --big difference to just one day decide to exclude that one child in my book and not think your friend will be mad.

Not sure if your comments were directed at me, but since I seem to be the main one siding with the child, I take it they may be. Just for your information, I have never brought my child to anything that was even remotely for adults only. I had an adult only wedding reception. I even prefer adult only parties, etc.. This post isn't just about kids at adult parties; I'm sure if you check other posts, you'd see my opinion on that is much like yours. You can check the below link if you don't believe me.

And, I must be blessed with my 3 year old, because he has never screamed or created a fuss in a restaurant where I would have to pack up food...guess I just raised him right; sorry to hear about your problems with yours, though. It's nice you cared enough to leave; I would do the same if mine acted up. Just thankful that he is so mannerly and well behaved, as many here would put it. I always thought it was his temperament, but hey, I guess I can "act" like it has everything to do with me and nothing to do with him even if I do know better :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Adults only thread

This post is NOT about excluding ONE child.

The post is titled Kids At Adult Parties. Adult party says it all. What part of that do those of you who defend uninvited kids attending adult parties not understand?

The OP stated the hostess implied the party was for adults. She was being polite. Too polite IMO. It is perfectly OK to say "adults only". The friend complained to the OP because her lil darlin's will be left out. Oh BOO-HOO.

Then the OP goes on about the behavior of the younger child as opposed to the older one. Apparently the parents have gotten away with dragging the older one to previous functions and his presence was overlooked because he is well behaved. Still doesn't make it right. It also set a bad precedent for those others like the OP who wish to hold parties without kids.

Well this should not be about behavior. It was stated that this group of friends are for the most part childless. The fact that they are including the parents in their functions is a nice gesture. But is primarily a group of adult friends and to bring your child is selfish and rude. The dynamics of a group change depending on who is present. Men change the dynamics of hen parties and women change the dynamics of men's outings. There is a time and place for all or both but children never belong at adult parties. Mixed neighborhood parties yes but when a host says adults that means no kids.