Coleman is STILL dumping the blame on the parents, no matter how he talks around it, if the kids are unhappy with the way they were raised.

Riggins, if you read this, the manner in which you and your husband seem to be planning to handle issues with his parents is BY FAR THE BEST WAY to address the problem. IOW, learn how to get along for everyone's sake.

For the rest of those children who won't learn to ways of coping, I would just say: "Get over yourself." Unless you were beaten on a regular basis or sexually abused or seriously emotionally abused, grow up. No one had a perfect childhood so you're not special in that category.

I've said my piece on this subject, so other posters don't need to try to goad me into arguing with them, because I'm not going to respond.

I for one thoroughly enjoyed my childhood and like the person I turned into. I have my faults like everyone else, but I accept the responsibility for them.

I've said my piece on this subject, so other posters don't need to try to goad me into arguing with them, because I'm not going to respond"

This summarizes the attitude that lead to my estrangement from my family. They get to say whatever they want and I get to listen. If they engage in a behavior that bothers me I have to "Get over myself."

No one has a perfect childhood seems to be the mantra for dysfunctinal families and it is not true. I have many friends who had wonderful childhoods and whose parents have become their best friends in adulthood.

I do blame my parents/family for my sad childhood which is why I am not subjecting my children to them. Emotional abuse, verbal abuse, neglect or indifference may not leave a physical marks but they do leave scars.

I learned to "cope" by leaving my childhood hurts (and family) in my past and building a wonderful future with my husband and children- true-it is not perfect but it is pretty wonderful.

Unfortunately, it will take you years to learn that and by the time you do, it could be too late on many levels.

From the Washington Post in May of last year:

"How do you achieve forgiveness?" asks Philip A. Cowan, who with his wife, Carolyn, headed the study: "If you don't, you can't move on."

Forgiveness, Cowan says, comes when you put a negative relationship in perspective. "Can you say: 'They were doing the best they could. They didn't know any better?' " Those who can, Cowan continues, "do better in their current relationships with partners and with children than people who are still angry."

It's hard to heal old wounds. Some do it in therapy, some by forging a loving bond with a grandchild, some through art. Whatever the pathway, the process leads to a richer experience of love."

I guess what I left out of my post is that even though I blame my parents for my childhood- I assume the responsibility for my life as an adult and I have reached a very peaceful place within myself and with my own family and I have moved on.

I do believe that they did the best they could but I also believe that when the time came that they knew better they chose not to do better- I understand- it is very hard to break patterns. I do love them and forgive them for the things that they did unintentionally that caused me pain and even intentionally. I pray for them and hope they will find joy and happiness but I can't bear witness to their destructive behavior. My resonsibility now is to myself and my children.

I do not worry about "before it's too late" or "what if I made one more attempt" I try to live in the moment and feel internally that I have made the right choice.

Problems with adult children where there is conflict especially with the mother does, I think, rest on several factors - their unwillingness to see the parent as a human being rather than the 'mom' all the media presents; many of these kids need a scapegoat to blame for their own mistakes in life (At an age of over 30 I remember blaming my mum for not correcting a crooked tooth I had - a friend's son blames her for his small stature - my mum couldn't have done anything about my teeth wartime Britain etc., but I know I hurt her. I blamed her for my asthma because she smoked - now I realise that she had been brought up to smoke that when she was young smoking was 'good'.
I wasn't the perfect Mum myself - I was studying when my kids were growing up - I was at home but busy with 'other things' - now I wish I had been more with them.
When my eldest daughter was 20 and the middle daughter 17
my husband was working in Greece - I left these kids in the house over Christmas and took the youngest 10 with me - just for 2/3 weeks.
Because of illnesses and a dreadful event associated with my husband's work we didn't back back until May of the year - -5 months all told.
My middle daughter came out and stayed with us and had a wonderful time BUT now she tells everyone she was abandoned!
and uses this as an excuse to leave her 16 year old son on his own here in the UK while she makes a a new life with a new husband and child in Turkey. This boy needs his mother - she wouldn't listen - eventually she had to be told face to face over the last Christmas when she was here on holiday - it was aweful - she took him,(put him in a flat on his own somewhere!) his clothes, the little boy and everything - told everyone she'd finished with us and I wouldn't see my young grandson ever again.
and that's that - I hadn't known she had so much venom in her.Anyway we are in very thready communication - but we are in communication
and I will keep channels open without expecting anything else.
These kids have to grow up take responsibility for themselves - many kids come from much worse backgrounds than ours and manage to become their own people.
We have all made mistakes as parents and I wish I could start all over again BUT that's the way life is for all of us.
I know wonderful mums who should have perfect kids - but that doesn't work either
Good luck and Best wishes

Now if we could only convince my MIL of this. Her mother was 'cold' to her and she claims she has no self-esteem because her mother was not nurturing and if she gets caught doing underhanded things and being rude and childish and insensitive it's because she just wants to be loved because she didn't get it when she was a child because her mother was 'cold'. She's 70, it's f*cked up her life for 55 years, how do we persuade her to get therapy so she doesn't continue to attempt with our lives?

It's too late - she's already done it - it started the minute your spouse was born.

Maybe you're the one who needs the therapy in order to learn how to deal in a compassionate manner with others.

If "dealing in a compassionate manner" means bending over and taking it, standing by silently while her home and family is destroyed by an entitled, egocentric woman without regard for others...I don't think so.

Cindy isn't attacking her MIL - she is addressing her MIL's behavior, which is as it should be.

She is, quite rightly, is protecting her home.

I did a lot of drinking, with my PTSD and depression. I am not sure I did any thing wrong, but I am very sorry that my son, with a post-doc from Harvard, has a very, very negative opinion of me. He still talks to me once a month, and I guess we are working on it, but it is very hard on me. And it hurts me everyday and night. I would do anything to change our relationship.

Bill

Estrangement really hurts and so many stories are unique...Situations are confusing...

I'm providing a link to a website about Estrangement. It is current and up-to-date and I find it very helpful--the many short articles are worth a look. I'm providing the link below and hope that you may find it helpful too.

Good luck to you both...