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Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Posted by bmh4796 (My Page) on
Tue, Nov 7, 06 at 16:16

Hello. I currently have Behr and SW paint in our home. I LOVE the colors Behr offers as well as the website where you can view the colors in different rooms. But, I must admit that it does not go on as nicely as SW. SW, though, does not have great colors. Ben Moore has beautiful colors, but sometimes I go in there and I'm overwhelmed by all of them.

Anyhow, we are building a home now and I need to decide on a paint store. Is BM worth it? Oh, and how about Devoe paint? Has anyone used this?

Thanks,
bridget


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I have used Frazee, Benjamin Moore, and Sherwin Williams--the last because that was all my contractor and his paint sub were willing to use. I am out in the country now and we do not have a great variety of g.c.'s from which to choose. Anyway, I was upset about having to use S-W, but I am very happy with how the paint turned out. I used mostly Martha Stewart colors and it worked out fine. I have never tried Devoe. I very much like BM and Frazee (my favorite), but the S-W has been a pleasant surprise. It is withstanding pet marks, too. One thing, when I tried to computer-duplicate other brands' colors using S-W it did not work.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Has anyone used Behr?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Hi...my husband loves the way the Behr paint goes on and we have recommended it to others in our family. Great coverage and really nice colors...we've been happy with it (as opposed to the Lowes American Tradition/Valspar paint, which my husband said "gelled" up into little beads all the time while painting -- constantly had to use a cloth to wipe off the gelled paint balls while painting).

We are currently using SW ProClassic semi-gloss on all our doors and trim, and it looks beautiful and goes on great.

Good luck with your painting ...


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

As someone who paints sporadically, I don't notice great differences among brands. I used Behr Premium Plus several times and have been happy with it, except for the ammonia odor. There was a long thread similar to this on the Home Decorating board, and I was astonished to find that many people don't like Behr paint for some reason (don't know if they were using the Premium Plus or not). There was a strong preference for BM and SW.

I have always had good luck with color matching. Sherwin Williams has matched Duron, Home Depot has matched Duron as well. And a couple months ago, Home Depot matched some ICI paint.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

First of all, any paint shop can match just about any color from any other manufacturer. 99% of the time, they can match it by the brand and the color name. 1/2% of the time they will need the number of the color on the color card. 1/2% of the time they will need the color card itself and they'll use their color-matching machine. It works just fine, I've done it a lot. You should not choose your paint brand by color. Color is a completely separate issue.

As for brands, I won't use anything other than Benjamin Moore any time I'm going to be painting with a brush (such as on trim or paneling). I prefer their water-borne Satin Impervo for it's nice leveling (the paint goes on flat, so you don't see the brush strokes as much). The Sherwin Williams paint I've tried does not self-level at all. I bought their scrubbable Duration paint, and I really don't like how it brushes on at all. Duron paint is horrible stuff, don't touch it. I've thrown the stuff away it's so bad. Behr tends to be thin, so you'd need to put on more coats, but other than that I don't know anything wrong with it.

When using a sprayer or roller, you generally don't have to be as picky (thinner paint is better for a sprayer anyway). The Sherwin Williams rolls on fine, as does the Benjamin Moore. The Behr is thinner, as I've said, so you might need to put up a third coat, especially if you're putting up a dark color or a red or something like that. But in general it'll be OK. Don't forget to prime first -- it really helps adhesion.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I've used nothing but SW professionally for years. Never had a problem with Duration, but then again, I'd rather die than use a brush; that's why sprayers were invented.

I personally didn't like Behr; I used it once or twice, but there was just such a startling lack of consistency in quality from one can to the next that it wasn't usable. Then again, that's kind of the problem with those stores in the first place.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I will never use Behr paint or stain again. I learned the hard way. Today, I find that Benjamin Moore (both interior and exterior)is the way to go. I normally prime all surfaces before painting and I prefer the Bullseys 123 for most applications. BM paint is easy to apply, gives excellant coverage and last and last.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Ditto what jasonmi7 says about about Behr. It's unpredictible, and who needs that?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Behr is the better paint for the money. Better coverage and there latex primer is good too. With dark colors I tint it gray or 1/2 the tint of the color. There primer will take 3oz. per gallon. Don't rush your paint job. Preparation is 90% of the job. Let the primer dry for 10 hrs. and if you need a second coat let the first coat dry for 4-6hrs.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

New Home? New walls? Choices between SW, BenM & Behr?

If you were my client, BenM's Aura matte would be the only option given to your builder/contractor.

There isn't a single professional painter that I work with that will go near a can of Behr paint or stain. Has a very poor success rate with my DIYers as well. That's not saying none of my DIYers can paint with Behr because some do prefer it, it's just not a consistent experience as others have stated. For me that makes it very low on the list of a very robust consumer selection for quality paint. Priced out per square foot, that's brushed, rolled or sprayed, Behr may not be as great of a deal as one might think YMMV.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Well, you posted this originally in November 06, so hoping your home is finished.

I am a professional painter and there is NOT anything wrong with Behr Premium Plus paint; 100% acrylic based; great paint. They can charge 20-25 for paint because of the large volume of stores and sells they make, whereas the other individual paint stores may cater more to painters coming in the door and they get a discount % for buying their paint. I have always used BM but there is nothing wrong with Behr premium- just like there isn't anything wrong with wearing a pair of levi jeans verses wearing a pair of designer dolce & gabbana jeans. It's a name game.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

As I previously posted, I was not a fan of Behr due to past bad experiences (many years ago). However, recently I went to purchase some BM exterior and found the price has jumped significantly. I happened to be in HD and saw a promo sale on Behr paint and stain. I bought some exterior premium plus and some solid color stain (both were 50% less then BM). I was impressed. If the Behr holds up - I may be singing a different tune :-)


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I wonder what they learned the hard way?

I painted our entire home over the past year with Behr. I used a decent brush and roller. Colors ranged from light green to beige in an eggshell, satin and Kitchen/Bath sheen. It always covered evenly and in two coats. I probably could have gotten away with one coat in many rooms but I am no professional and figured 2 coats is more durable than one AND sometimes I was painting at night. It is wearing well and not fading. I touched up heare and there a year later and it matched fine. I look at it like this, Behr is the Toyota where as BM might be the Lexus, maybe a little better but you pay big $$$$ for those bragging rights...just my opinion thought. Good luck.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I painted my bathroom with Behr originally. Two years later when I repainted, the blue painters tape pulled the Behr paint right off the wall!!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I have tried Valspar, Benjamin Moore, Behr, Duron, Bennette(a local paint company) Majestic, Sherwin Williams, Pittsburgh, Glidden, and Pratt and Lambert.

Majestic was the worst, followed very closely by Behr. I found the product too cheap in quality and never seemed to cover. Valspar was a good product and was easier to work with than Behr.

Benjamin Moore was the least of the premium brands I have tried. Duron was a great product as was Bennette, available in Norfolk. Sherwin Williams was better than the Pittsburgh Paint Products, but stay away from the Olympic and Pittsburgh Products in Lowe's, they did not work as well as Valspar. Glidden Paint worked well, but not the Home Depot version of Glidden product.

The best was Pratt and Lambert Accolade followed by the Red Seal line.

The absolute best paint and the most expensive paint available in the country is Eurolux Paint. Then again, at $90 per eurogallon, it should be great. It is made by Fine Paints of Europe.

Has anyone tried Devine Paint? If so, how is it?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I did several years ago. Had a client who was hooked on the colors as were several of her friends/neighbors. If I remember right, it was when Miller Paints first started mixing the Devine colors. I have limited experience with it, but initial response was it's no worse, nor better than what's already on your list. Plus, I don't think the colors are anything special. There's nothing in that collection of color that I can't find in Pratt & Lambert or Ben Moore, etc.

Eurolux fans are few and far between. Not because of the product, but because the craftsman who appreciate it and know what to do with it are few and far between ;-D.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I have heard several local paint stores have problems with Devoe Paint. The batches were not consistent and they ended up paying labor to repaint jobs. After a few times, they dropped the line altogether. Has anybody else had this problem?

The Eurolux line is very exclusive. There are only about 40 paint dealers in the nation. The pride themselves on the fact that one of their dealers mixes all Marth Stewart's paint for her personal residences.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Behr is the worse paint out there. We ( after 40 years ) are using it for the 1st time, NEVER again! It does not cover or lie properly. We will go back to Ben Moore! It seems you do get what you pay for!
We found out yesterday that someone else who used Behr and even put on a tinted primer ( BEHR & H D advised to only add cost to the buyer!!! ) needed 3 coats to smoothly cover an off white wall! They too say NEVER AGAIN TO BEHR!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

"better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls"


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I used behr throughout our 2000sq ft home. It went on easy, covered in two coats (if I were a professional, perhaps one in some rooms), it has not faded and has been cleanable. I did prepare my walls by cleaning them. I did use a better roller and brush. I did make sure my paint was stirred.

Please post your experience BM once you are finished.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Professionals don't even try for one coat, regardless of coverage. You need two coats for an even sheen and better washability. Behr sucks because it doesn't adhere. I don't know about you guys, but to me that is about the most important thing a paint needs to do. What good is paint that doesn't stick to what you are painting?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Can we talk again about Aura vs regular Ben Moore vs Sherwin Williams? I have to make decision and am leaning toward BM but the regular stuff. Just don't see an AURA color that lights my fire.
Here in Los Angeles, the painters always push a Dunn Edwards brochure on you. I'm done with that. The last guy didn't prime the trim properly and it cracked and peeled immediately. I'm waiting for his return shortly.
On the current job, I rehired the excellent painter who did our exterior about 1.5 yrs ago. He's costly, but excellent. But even he (and his references were Bev Hills etc) pulled out some Dunn Edwards paints for me to sample. Yuck. Off I went to BM and SW to buy samples and quarts of colors to try. Tomorrow is "D" day. Gotta make my color choice. So, what do you pros recommend? Regular BM? or SW? and if SW? what type for my dining room and entry hall? We're painting over oil based trim ...or maybe latex. Oil based has been outlawed in CA for awhile.
Thanks in advance...


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Aura would be my first choice. Just pick one of the other colors from the color preview deck or the classic deck and have them mix in the aura bases if you don't find an affinity color you like.

You can also opt for BM - Regal 100% acrylic line.
I prefer matte finish or eggshell.

Trim- BM- waterbase impervo

SW- Superpaint
SW- ProClassic for trim


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Thanks so much! We went with the BM colors and I specified the Regal as the painter hadn't worked with Aura before and it's not a high traffic area for hand prints. Good info, thank you!!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Hmmmmm..........

Re: Professionals don't even try for one coat, regardless of coverage. You need two coats for an even sheen and better washability. Behr sucks because it doesn't adhere. I don't know about you guys, but to me that is about the most important thing a paint needs to do. What good is paint that doesn't stick to what you are painting?

One of the knocks I hear against Behr is 2 coat coverage is required and how that is not necesary with SW, BM etc. It's good to know that professionals apply 2 coats either way.

What do you mean that Behr does not stick. I never experienced that...it went on nicely. I have no chipping etc etc. I am curious what you mean.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Yes, I have heard that others have had good experiences with Behr. But, as a pro, my experiences have been bad. Remember that pro painters demand much more from their coatings than a homeowner or DIY'er would. I paint like normal with Behr and it literally crawls off the wall as it dries. I don't know if it's in a bad phase right now, if I got a bad batch or any number of any other things, but it's enough of a reason for me to avoid it. Plus, the service you get from Home Depot is off the charts poor.

One coat coverage is only important if you are using a flat. Washable finishes require two coats regardless of color. Can you get away with one coat if it covers? Sure, but two coats is always going to look better. When you look down the walls with light coming in from the windows, it will always look flashy and uneven if you have only done one coat. Paint manufacturers market paint to homeowners with that one-coat coverage slogan, but that's only because the industry has tricked the general public into thinking that is important. It's not important if you are going for a truly nice looking, long lasting durable paintjob. A paint should cover in two coats though, and that has a lot to do with the color itself and not so much who makes the paint. I hear so many people complaining about brand A or brand B not covering....they say, "It took 6 coats! I'm never using that brand again!" It's usually the color and not the brand.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

We use sw in our home and the commercial building that we manage. I prefer the duration or the superpaint. As for colors, on the exterior of our home we wanted a rich dark brown for part of the trim, but decided that the sw color had too much red. My dh studied the formula and figured out how to change it so that it was what we wanted. They were game and named the color after our business and keep the formula on file for us. We also brought in a couple of gallons in the first redder color and they altered them to be closer to our choice and we are using them as first coats. One coat of the duration exterior (all we've gotten to on the front porch, eventually plan 1 or 2 more coats) has held up for 2 winters on porch posts that had previously peeled. Matching worked well for us. We brought in a piece of unused aluminum siding that we found in the garage and they matched it perfectly. So we are also painting the faded siding.
The sw paint also mixes well. I don't like to throw anything away (especially at that price) and had a color that I liked but too dark so I hand mixed the ivory trim color in to lighten it up for the walls of a bedroom. Mixed beautifully.
I used BM years ago on occassion. They do have nice colors. Didn't notice that the paint, tho good, is any better than SW.
kathy


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I recently had my new construction stucco painted by a professional using Sherwin Williams, within 2 - 3 months yellow started to blead though. We are 5 months and the whole place needs repainting, the SW rep says that whenever you use someone ele's color this can happen as our formulas very, also, it is Coral (light) and a Benjamin Mooe color, the reds will always bleed out. I think he is full of it! there are fare too many light coral colored home in the keys and caribbean. if this were the case, we would never see this color. Any suggestions? I am over SW (even though they will replace 15 gallons) but not the $3500 labor.
Kristie


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Keysgirl,
Please don't take this the wrong way but my suggestion is to start a new thread on this. And yes, I think your rep is full of it. How long did the new stucco age befor it was painted? Is it portland cement stucco or a premix mastic type?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

paintguy

well then Behr should suffice and save the average non pro do it yourself painter some $$$$.

I know my brother-in law painted the upper half of his wall (above chair rail) some dark burgandy from SW. He used 3X as much as the said he would need...this was on newly primed drywall. He finally got to the color on the chit.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

well then Behr should suffice and save the average non pro do it yourself painter some $$$$.

With a large percentage of my clients being DIY, I completely and totally disagree with that statement. There are so many other better choices besides Behr at all price points.

All one has to do is Google the brands mentioned. What comes up for Behr. There's even YouTube videos about how much their products suck. It's actually funny until you realize that these are real people with real, documented and detailed failures to deal with.

Could be that all those people posting about how much they think Behr sucks are stupid arses who aren't smart enough to master the enormously challenging and brain-bending task of painting a wall. Those people would fall under the oft used excuse on Behr's behalf that it was the prep and something was wrong with previous layers so don't blame the paint. Funny how cans of Behr paint seem to be magnets for people (DIY and pro alike) who don't know how to prep and paint and how uncanny that it keeps being applied to walls with underlying issues creating less than ideal situations for Behr to simply stay on the surface it's applied to. What are the odds.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

This is simple really

If your looking for paint to throw on the wall for a few days and dont care about quality. Then Behr is your way to go.

If your looking for quality and want somthing that will last long then you go with one of the big three (BM, SW, Muralo). Any of these three will do the job.

With the original question about colors. Home Depot does not offer this but BM, Muralo and SW do. They can take a number from Behr and call up the dealer. They will give them the forumla to match there paint.

I am a Muralo dealer and i get asked all teh time to make BM colors. Now i have a book with most of there colors so its easy for me to get the fomula. But Alot of people like one companys color but wants to use another companys paint. Find teh color you want and when you go to get your paint you can ask them to match it.

I hope that answers you question and other questions anyone can e-mail me at babylonhardwareorders@yahoo.com


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Re:Could be that all those people posting about how much they think Behr sucks are stupid arses who aren't smart enough to master the enormously challenging and brain-bending task of painting a wall.....

Actually and logically YES!!! My father-in-law, a union painter his whole life told me the most important part of the job was preparation. Many times it took longer than the actual painting. People do not want to pay for that though AND if they do it themselves they of course use a less expensive paint and then belittle the paint....which likely is not at fault. Give the same folks BM and I bet they have the same problems. I had Pop Pop use Lucite (I think)and such way back when. He said he pref'd the 'good stuff' from the union shop (I think it was called MAB) as he could see a difference in ease application and coverage. Nevertheless, due to his dilegence in prep, anything he painted with that stuff held up great.

I say once again, I prepped properly, used decent equipment and have had none of the issues you describe after 2.5 years in a house with kids.

Re:
If your looking for paint to throw on the wall for a few days and dont care about quality. Then Behr is your way to go.

Again, a few years and my Behr is holding up well. Now if you are going to tell me the BM/SW etc will last 15 years where as Behr will only last 7, I can not yet attest to that..yet. I do know I'd likely be tired of the color long before 15 years and I'd be VERY surprised if any paint held up to kids a full 15 years. I am not belittling the more expensive stuff, just looking for a simple list of why its better. Color selection may be one example. To the pro application may be noticable. To the DIYer, I am not so sure they would know the difference.

Saying its good if you only want to throw it on the walls for a few days is silly. Anything can be found on you tube. Provide specifics. If it came off the walls after a few days HD would be bankrupt from returns and likley selling YOUR brand paint.

Perhaps the SW/BM etc are a more consisitent mix over time. Perhaps a good reason NOT to go out and buy 20 gallons of Behr without painting a room first. I don't know? I was just looking for specifics. I only know what worked for me.

Good Luck all.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

andre, the problem is that it is too many and too much at this point in time. It is very difficult to ignore the data that has been so well purported and finely documented on the www for Behr. The fact that they continue to ignore that there are very real issues with their product can't be overlooked either. I don't have the link anymore but there was actually a recall/refund program in Canada by Behr due to adhesion specific issues. I'm sure if anyone out there takes my advice to do a little Googling, something about it will pop up.

The only, singluar retort you can find are people who have used Behr and can tell you it works for them. People like you. Me too as a matter of fact. I had a couple great gallons from Behr. It's the ones that weren't so great that's the problem and that I'm talking about. Funny how that works in consumer world.

So let's assume that I am one of those people for whom the task of properly prepping a non-issue wall escapes them. Why was I succesful with two gallons yet unsuccesful with one. If I'm a stupid arse and didn't know how to do it, all of the walls should have failed. Not the case.

Similiarly that's not the case you find when reading the feedback from other's who have experienced adhesion and subsequent failure issues with Behr. Some are right here in this thread. Perectly fine walls with no real oddities or specialness. Substantial history of painting successfully and failure free with other brands of paint -- sometimes MANY other brands of paint.

I am making such a point with this because I think it's a load of crap to say that it's always the prep and NEVER the paint. Sometimes it is indeed the paint. I've been there. I've gotten restitution from paint manufacturers for clients becuase, folks, sometimes it is the paint. If it was not, I can guarantee you there would be no restitution - for product nor labor. The fact that those failures are not acknowledged publicly, does not make them any less real. The fact that someone has not personally experienced failures as discussed does not make them less real. Nor does it mean that those people are *better painters* who know more or are more clever than others. It just means they've been lucky. And it's very likely their sampling and experience with Behr is on a small scale, limited in region, no large volume or geographic range to speak of.

It is necessary on the behalf of others who might not know better to ensure that the OTHER side of the story is clearly and accurately shared.

Behr being a product with well documented and detailed consistency issues it nothing to sneeze at --- it's been tooo long, there is tooo much out there. It's not just the opinions stated on this forum and it's not even just in the United States.

If all one has is a Home Depot, then Behr Premium is your best bet. If you have other options, there's no reason to even give this product a brief consideration. 100% acrylic or whatever standard you want to use can be found across a myraid of other brands. If a brand does not have quality AND consistency AND consistent consumer support, it's got no game in a highly competitive industry.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I've used behr twice, although both were exterior applications. Our only source here for anything is the evil orange. It's the only game in town. On the first house, the homeowner insisted on behr, ( ben moore paint store 80 miles away), because they were having a $20 off of 5 gallons thing going on. It went on nice and adhered fine, two coats. On a garage, the second application, they had already purchased behr. it adhered, but i ended up putting three coats on the project instead of the typical two. I believe in the above posters claims about behr's inconsistency. In both cases, it did take longer to prep the projects than paint and i agree that it's all about the prep along with two coats of quality product as a topper. I dont consider behr a quality product although i cant speak for their interior product. The only other experience was using their fence,deck, siding product on a deck and it was just okay, imo. Nothing to get real excited about although recently visiting the deck site showed it still hanging in there after 3.5 years.


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off topic but by the way....

The reason h.d is the only game in town here is because they ran the mom & pop lumber and hardware stores out of the valley. One in particular carried frazee paints which i thought highly of.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

google: population in us- 301,139,947 , and take all the adults in that number, I HIGHLY DOUBT the BEHR PREMIUM PAINT is at fault (speaking interior only). If it were that bad and not a quality paint I am sure Masco would retire this line of paint to appease all the naysayer's. Sure there are better quality paints. You can get a bad batch of paint from any paint manufacturer. Send it off; have it tested. There are more UNDERLYING PROBLEMS WHEN PAINT FAILS and the best line to use is "BLAME IT ON THE PAINT. You have people stating SW is the worse paint and won't use it either. Hear reports all the time from painters as well as ICI paints. Behr preminum interior paint is a quality paint, nothing wrong with it; but as I stated there are better brands. Open up a can of BM with crud, goobers, & bad smell in it. Paint with it and something goes wrong- hmmm let's see , I bet I could blame it on the paint. That seems to work. There is too much involved in making paint from the chemists and I just betcha they are making all bad batches of behr preminum and distributing to all the home depots just SO A SMALL MINORITY can say it is a bad paint. More people in the US for just a small amount .


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Why would you choose a lesser brand if the option was there for you to use a good brand? Saving yourself $10-$15 on the front end is just not worth the risk. You want to paint your room and be done with it. You don't want to risk having to do it over with a better paint do you? Most pro painters do not like Behr. Isn't that enough of a reason to stay away from it?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I am a professional painter and I use Behr preminum on occasion. I have not had the first issue with this paint. I don't fault any paint when there is a problem with adhesion. THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN JUST BLAMING THE PAINT. If someone knows the background and does the needed prep there shouldn't be an issue with any paint.

Yes, there are better quality paints as I mentioned, but to slam Behr (interior) paints on a small minority is not enough to justify the use of a higher quality paint if someone cannot afford a $50-60 paint and does not or has not had issues with it or just wants to use that brand. I could say there are better quality paints such as dutch boy, ace, sears, kilz, SW, and the list could go on. In other words, if you arent' using BM all paints don't meet the standards.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I can believe that there are perhaps consistency issues with Behr...over the years....not sure. I do not accept that it is as bad as you all make it out to be. Consumer reports would notate that I am sure. $15 a gallon more when you are painting an entire home (as we did) is a big deal.

As far as SOME pros go, they like to use a name brand because they can write up that paint at $45 a gallon while getting a huge discount form the dealer. I am not saying ALL but some do this. I have no problem with this either. It does not make the paint they use better though.

The only actual arument that may have stopped me from choosing Behr was the consistency argument. I'd hate to buy 30 gallons of paint and have it turn out to be bad. Then again, before I jumped into $45 a gallon paint, I'd have certainly tried a few gallons of Behr.

You guys make it sound like Behr is the Yugo of paints. I say its more like a Toyota, maybe not a Lexus. Then again, Lexus gets you more prestiege I guess but at a cost. I'll stick with a decent running car that costs less...so to speak.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Andrelaplume I think you've got it nailed. I've used gallons of Behr wall,trim and exterior paints without problems but I prefer the Valspar line for most work. I'm convinced these products are on par with SW and BM. BM is way overpriced on the retail level.

Paint manufacturing is not an emerging technology, they all know how to make a good product. Stick with a major manufacturer and buy their top of the line products, use them for the recommended purpose, follow the directions on the can. All will be well.

Absolutly correct about marking that builder's grade up. Here's a loose rule of thumb - if the paint is "professional grade" stay away from it.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Paint manufacturing is not an emerging technology, they all know how to make a good product.

They might all know how,but do they??( make it)


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

A painting contractor uses BM because of the service. What kind of service are you getting from Home Depot? If a painting contractor is going to markup paint, he's going to markup the Behr too and file it under a delivery charge.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

What service do you get from BM that I could not get from HD..be specific...

I can return anything to HD. The door automatically opens on my way out. I'd hope you could return anything to BM; they likely hold the door open for you when you leave. What do you mean by service?

If I were getting estimates, I'd assume I'd pay a premium for the job as compared to doing it myslef. If they were using BM I'd not be surprised if they were getting a kickback...no problem as I am comparing estimates and its the overall price that counts. If someone quoted with Behr and a delivery charge but his/her price was in line with the others, thats fine so long as I feel Behr is decent quality paint. Thats the real issue. I am still not convinced that it in not.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

By service, I mean that I can go into my BM store or ICI or SW, and expect that the people working there know what they are talking about. They have some knowledge about coatings, how to apply it and how to troubleshoot problems. They will also let me negotiate my pricing depending on how much paint I buy. I can also have my paint delivered for free if I wish or I can call my order in and expect it to be ready when I arrive. Home Depot has a horrible reputation for bad service. The clerks in the paint aisle are not well trained and if you ask them a question there is a good chance that you will be led astray. Also, I'm sure that Home Depot mistints more paint than real paint supply stores.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

By service, I mean that I can go into my BM store or ICI or SW, and expect that the people working there know what they are talking about. They have some knowledge about coatings, how to apply it and how to troubleshoot problems. They will also let me negotiate my pricing depending on how much paint I buy. I can also have my paint delivered for free if I wish or I can call my order in and expect it to be ready when I arrive. Home Depot has a horrible reputation for bad service. The clerks in the paint aisle are not well trained and if you ask them a question there is a good chance that you will be led astray. Also, I'm sure that Home Depot mistints more paint than real paint supply stores.

All good points

If they were using BM I'd not be surprised if they were getting a kickback...

I have never heard of anything like this,kickbacks from a retailer? come on.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I agree on your 'service' point. I admit, HD can only speak in generalties about the lines they sell, like "Behr's Satin runs shinyer than Ralph Lauren's" etc.

You will not get specific infor I guess. I don't doubt they get a lot busier and could mis-tint more paint.

Still, for me, I'll take the risk to save $15 a gallon, especially in this economy and if I need 20 gallons.

Pop Pop still gets a discount at MAB to this day.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Never ceases to amaze me when I hear a select few talk about Behr preminum, there is always THE SERVICE THANG THAT COMES UP. Yes, granted they do move the lawn & garden person or the wallpaper person to tint paint or assist people at times and that does become a problem; in addition to having to wait at times. I don't have any problems calling in an order or knowing when the actual paint rep(s) are working.

Matter of fact I believe I saw that same lawn & garden person at the SW a few days ago. Point being, you can on occasion find a person who just got off the turnip wagon working at the individual paint stores just the same as you can at the box stores.

If a prof. painter used this particular paint numerous times and failure existed, then I could possibly say the same thing; if that be the case put in your contract, won't be responsbile for behr paint failure or put in contract you will not use this paint.

I don't and haven't had any issues using the paint, service on occasions is another story, but I have found this at times with my own BM store or when the wrong paint was delivered. Yep, time is money, but does that mean I am going to look for another BM paint dealer- don't think so.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

or put in contract you will not use this paint.( Behr)

That's exactly what is in mine.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Still, for me, I'll take the risk to save $15 a gallon, especially in this economy and if I need 20 gallons

I understand that 100%.
The thing is, I'm not a painting contractor. I'm a homeowner who is a perfectionist to the point of being a bit over the top. I've used Behr, Valspar, SW in different sheens and quality levels, BM Eco-Spec, BM Regal, and BM Aura.
Most of my interior projects are pretty simple. My home is brand new and well finished. I don't need to do much prep-the odd picture hole, a little sanding, and that's it. Here's what I want-
Deep color that covers in as few coats as possible
Quick Dry Time
Low odor/voc content (I have an asthmatic 3 year old)
Ease of application

The last 4 rooms I have painted required 1 gallon of Aura. There's no way that one gallon of ANYTHING else I have ever used would have given the same coverage or as good a result. I gallon of Aura @ $50 is less expensive than any two gallons of anything else I can buy with the exception of Behr or Valspar on sale. I read up on how to apply Aura and got the hang of it quickly, so it's NOT harder to work with-just different. I can paint two coats in a room and eat or sleep in it the SAME day. The colors look about 3 feet deep even if I use shades that are not Affinity or even BM colors.
I fully understand the resistance of painting contractors to Aura, but for any homeowner looking for a better result with less effort and willing to approach Aura with a clean slate, the experience is unbeatable and NOT any more expensive. It's not for anyone who wants or needs to just slap paint up on the walls, but I'm not that guy. I want my work to look as good as it possibly can-I'm kind of nuts that way, but anyone coming to a place like this for information and advice is clearly looking for a better way too.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

trk65

Great post. All good points and so true. Sure the Aura is more expensive per gallon but as you said,if you only need 1 gallon instead of 3 and it looks better,you've won the battle.As a contractor myself, I have to teach my customers all this but in the long run they win,it takes me less time to apply and the finish is true and long lasting.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I have used the Behr products and they seem fine to me. I found the difference between Behr and Sherwin Williams negligible. However, I did find Glidden and Dutch Boy to be horrible.
I know most of the contractors prefer the specialty brands like Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore but I wonder if this would be true if they were paying full retail like the rest of us. Behr is $20-$25 a gallon. Retail on the others is $40-$50 a gallon. I suspect the contractors are getting the others at only slightly more than the Behr.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

A BM Regal type paint that sells for $46 retail painters may get for $33-$36. The price of a paint is directly related to the ingredients put in the paint. If the ingredients are better, does everyone notice that? Nope.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Paintguy, you say that "The price of a paint is directly related to the ingredients put in the paint". I ask, are you talking about the shelf price, or the 'painter's' price? Doesn't seem to make sense then, because for the 'painter', the BM or SW stuff prices out around the same as the Box store stuff. The real difference between them is not the ingredients, but the marketing, painters discounts, kick backs, retail store costs etc, which BM & SW are happy to charge to the home owner/retail purchaser. All paint companies buy their ingredients from a small group of suppliers and there aren't many secrets out there, box store paints are as good or better (see consumer reports) than the 'specialty' brands!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I found Behr to be just fine. I have only used light shades of Behr paint, and it needed two coats. I would not attempt any dark colors probably. I love their color Heirloom Lace.

I really don't love SW paint, which is funny. Maybe because I have only used Harmony and Duration. The Harmony went on nicely, but is not durable! Duration went on terribly. Who knows why, but it was terrible.

Ben Moore is expensive, but it always goes on well. You know I have had equally good luck with the Ben Moore colors in Ace Royal paint. Seriously, it is way cheaper and went on great.

I love Ralph Lauren paint. The colors have this dimension that I have not seen in any other paint. It also goes on wonderfully.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

paint guru,

I'm not really going to use Consumer Reports as a guide for anything, especially paint. Of course there are secrets. You act like all paints are made the same. Obviously they are not, or we would all just buy the cheap stuff. I'm still paying $33 for my BM with a painters discount....how much is Behr? $20-$22? That's not the same. Of course BM pays for marketing and that is part of the shelf price, but so does Behr. To me that means that Behr is really cheap to make!

A paint manufacturer can choose how much titanium dioxide to put in the paint. It's not some formula that all paint makers use. More titanium dioxide makes the paint better. More chalk, clay, dirt, talc or whatever other cheap fillers are used (I'm not a paint chemist) makes the paint worse. These ingredient amounts are directly related to the cost. It's why BM's Super Hide line costs less than BM's Regal line.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I've used most of the brands. The ICI the pro's used in my bedroom 12 years ago has held up wonderfully. The rest has been repainted. Over and over again. For the rate I remodel, I use Behr. I have even used, gasp, Glidden! I've also used SW. All with no problems.

I prep properly, allowing a day to wash, dry and another for primer to dry, then paint 2 coats and enjoy. No problems. Then a year or two later, do it all over again.

For the rate I redecorate, I just buy what's convenient. And usually it's Behr premium plus. I use the money I save over other brands to buy a good brush and some rollers and new "stuff" for the room.

I have never watched a video of peeling paint on youtube. I have better things to do, like redecorate ;)


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Don't forget Valspar although harder to spread compared to something like Sherwin Williams gives an exceptional hide (except in gloss it may not be that great) and durability is superb. My parents on the other hand swear by Ben Moore. Really any high quality paint will do with proper preparation and care...just follow directions and know that cure time is a lot longer than dry time.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

sdpada, Valspar is a good one to throw out into the mix. And please understand I am not directing the following at you. At all. :)

But I have noticed something that I find rather intriguing. Across the few boards that I haunt, I've noticed a pattern over a bit of time.

Old threads, like this one, regularly get resurrected. Especially if Behr is mentioned in a less than stellar light by any volume of posters - especially regular, established posters on a forum.

Conveniently, they've always used another paint brand in their home and can compare brands and every time - gasp, what a surprise - Behr is their favorite and they LOVE Behr colors. I kind of look for those posts at this point. It's so predictable and it's funny. :)

This thread had been dead for TWO years until Pat35 registered on April 29, 2008 posted the same day all about how wonderful she/he thinks Behr is and never posted again -- never contributed before and hasn't contributed since.

I've also noticed it with Ben Moore regarding Aura specifically on more than one occassion. Posts resurrected not so much to defend or deny poor quality issues with Aura, more so to remind us of how wonderfully superior it is.

My point of point this is, maybe think about reading with a cautious eye. Whenever an old thread is resurrected by a brand new poster, who has never contributed as much as squat to a forum up to that point and has stories to share that have a suspiciously unrealistic edge, you should wonder just exactly who is posting and what their intent is.

None of us can know for sure but it gets to a point when you have to wonder who works for who or who's family members works for XYZ paint manufacturer and is feeding them information. It unavoidable to be a bit curious about those who are seemingly waging forum to forum campaigns with made-up stories and experiences in an effort to paint a specific kind of picture for a certain product.

In instances where the poster has posted previously, you get a feel for their capacity for vocubulary and how they write. When it's not their own words they're posting, it's not like they're foolin' anyone.

I think it might be a good idea to let this one die off into the history of the Paint Forum.


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What the he11 !!

(what was I thinking when I typed this?)

"My point of point this is"

It's like I'm channeling Yoda. See, thing is, my writing style is consistent and all the typos, poor grammar, and pitiful punctuation are on purpose so there's no doubt it's really me. (it's all a big plan)


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Has anyone used Porter paints? We have a new home and all the builders would use is latex Porter paint. Our problem with it is that you can't wash off marks on the walls or woodwork as it takes the paint off. Also anything that is set on our mantel, shelves, or desktops adheres to the surface. I'm not happy with this paint but I don't want to paint all the woodwork again. We are planning on repainting the walls. I just need to paint the flat surfaces on all the trim. Any suggestions?


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

The paint reps do scan these posts regularly but I think the reason it has come back to life is GOOGLE.

Someone typed in "behr paint" and found a deep link to this thread.

Most of these DIY type forums are full of one time posters.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

j.a.b., now it's going to look like I'm picking on just you. I'm not. It's just ironic because when I was speaking to the Aura situation, I was specifically thinking of how we see a somewhat random poster popping in - always with a link to an on-line store - where we could all go to buy Aura. Wasn't thinking of paint reps or any one representing Benjamin Moore Paint.

I happen to think Aura is pretty great and I actually do like the on-line store the random poster kept dropping links to. I knew of and used the store long before they started dropping in here and I actually posted the link once or twice myself -- could be how they found their way here to this out of the way Paint Forum to begin with. Maybe it was my fault! :-0

I agree that forums get a lot of one-time posters. Usually tho I gotta say one-time posters are looking for discussion and help with specific issues and not so much wanting to share links or very specific paint raves.

Like I said, none of us really knows for sure and it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things -- it's just this post was started almost THREE YEARS AGO for corn's sake.

I'm wondering if it's simply time to move on with new posts and new thoughts whether someone stumbles here via Google or otherwise.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

All paints are actually very similiar as long as you are matching premium to premium and so on.

One thing I've found is that Sherwin-Williams is way overpriced vs Behr or Ben Moore. I try to use the local distributors to support local businesses as much as possible.

I've had a few bad experiences with S-W service and young kids selling paint to me. Rather not use their overpriced material. They really know how to gouge the customer


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Was on the bus today, sitting behind some guy who had some painters in to paint apparently a rental property. He was complaining that the guys had gotten there early and the painting was done by the time he got there, and that they had used Behr paint which he said was just the pits. He was thinking of having a redo using BM.

I think the guy is full of baloney, and if he hadn't stayed on the phone while he got off the bus, I would have told him to reconsider. I've used Behr high gloss porch floor paint on my stucco porch, have painted now two apartments with the flat, eggshell, and semigloss, and I've gotten good coverage, the paint lays down smooth, dries beautifully, and cleans up well even 3-4 years after painting. I've never used BM or SW, but I never needed to look further than Behr.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Sherwin Williams has worked well for me in the past. I thought that any popular brand paint would do, so I tried Behr: It takes 3 coats every time to cover and its inconsistant! I am painting a bathroom Burgandy that was Peach. I put on a primer coat. Still, I am having to put on a 3rd coat to cover. It looks like I will be putting on a 4th. That's 5 coats total. Booo on Behr!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I used bm aura and then I used behr premium plus ultra . I like the behr better. Both are self priming. I painted the behr over pink walls in a bedroom and I could've stopped after one coat that's how good it covered, plus its 34 dollars a gallon cheaper than aura. The aura I painted over peach walls and it def needed 2 coats. Very immpressed with behr premium plus ultra.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I know everyone says that good paint will cover better, but usually when a paint covers poorly, it's because of the color itself. A burgundy will generally not cover well unless you are using Aura because there just may not be any colorants in that particular color that will have any hiding power. Even a burgundy color made in Fine Paints of Europe may take 3 coats. Aura is the only exception that I know of.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I can't speak on Behr, but I am in the process of doing a sampling of SW versus BM trim paints. I have to say, the BM Regal semi-gloss is blowing all competition out of the water. It is an amazing finish, even with a brush on my sample boards. So rich and with a lot of depth, even with just one coat. And smooth as butter. For my trim and mantles, I am thinking it is well worth the money. It's also comparable to the pro-classic products in price.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

We are in the process of painting our new house. I read the reviews regarding Aura and Duration paint. We have a level 5 finish on the walls and want a matte finish for the paint. SW is having a sale this week, so I figured I'd buy a quart of each and try the Duration and Aura side by side.

I'm far from a professional painter, but here is my review. The Aura was easier to apply. The Duration wasn't bad, it just didn't seem to cover quite as well. The Aura is a lot more matte than the Duration. I was really hoping to save some $$ by going with Duration, but I think we will stick with the Aura.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I have not read one posting on ingredients. Percentage of Titanium Dioxide, Zinc, and with water based paint, Acrylic%s. These key materials play a role and can vary from brand and quality. Titanium keeps going up in price and may be the most important item to read on the label.

There are of course proprietary factors in how these basics play together; check the label, first.

I have had good luck with Behr and their water base enamels flatten out pretty good. In the 70's I was dedicated to use Sherwin Williams oil enamels, but their water base enamels did not measure up back then. Gloss Latex on wood can be a real no no, too. Had to strip moldings that had used cheap latex glosses. --Sometimes peal off like food wrap and roll into eraser balls when sanded.

Sherwin Williams Oil based paint has me sold, along with a good brush, too. SW transitioned well after the lead was taken out of paint.

Often thick paint (one sign of good quality) often benefits from adding PENETROL brand products for flow and thinning. No one has talked about this great old brand and experimenting with it often makes for best results. Curious?

There are lots of techniques one should consider before making too general an assumption statement. I'm about to paint some cabinets that are primed with water base flat and shall cover with oil base enamel. Oil spreads a lot further than Acrylics, something else to think about in making comparisons.

Good luck to all...these comments come from my 30+ years of relative knowledge, now find someone behind those counters that can add to them. --Knowledgeable paint mixers can be hard to find while making the difference in avoiding big mistakes.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Often thick paint (one sign of good quality)

Really????


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I am a paint contractor. I paint every day of my life. We do high end custom homes all the way down to apartment move outs. Just from what my experiance tells me is. You normally cannot go wrong with benjamin moore paints. Sherwin offers a great product as well just dont have one in my rural location. And valspar also offers a good product. I really like valspar medallion line of paint 100% acrylic and has become my goto paint on exterior jobs. Just my two cents worth.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I used berh this past spring. We wanted a nice rich red red! Living room ,hall and Kitchen..It took one primer coat and 3 coats of red. I thought it would never cure! Its been 4 months ..last week I was mixing cake batter and abit went on the wall. So I took a slightly wet paper towel no soap to wipe it off. The paper towel turned pink!! Whats going to happen when I really need to give the walls a spring cleaning? I wish I'd never ever heard of Berh paint!!! It is still tacky.Bump it and off its coming..This will all have to soon be redone I can clearly see it happening..And It will not be with berh!!!!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

As someone who arrived here via Google, let me point out a recent article in the NY Times about how often people are paid to write reviews - and this is on ALL sites - TripAdvisor, Amazon, Yelp. The article was about how someone developed a computer algorithm to identify the posts that are shills. Very bad ratings can also be shills.

These days, I read reviews that are 3 out of 5 stars because I think they ate the least likely to be faked.

That being said, I don't believe that colors can be accurately matched across brands because the color of the bases vary. I just did a large amount of testing because I wanted to duplicate a standard BM paint in Aura and couldn't I am extremely sensitive to color and can see differences that maybe other people can't.

And as for the staff in specialized paint stores being more knowledgable, I would not count on it. The amount of MIS-information I received about color matching and the fact that the bases are a major concern was news to too many staff at 4 different paint stores in NYC.

BTW, I am not a paid shill - just someone who is kicking herself for forgetting about the importance of bases when I ordered the paint for the jredo of my apartment that was just completed. I'll just have to live with it.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

That being said, I don't believe that colors can be accurately matched across brands because the color of the bases vary. I just did a large amount of testing because I wanted to duplicate a standard BM paint in Aura and couldn't I am extremely sensitive to color and can see differences that maybe other people can't.

Aura has a completely different tinting system than anything else.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I hate to "continue" a somewhat recent thread, BUT there's SO many misconceptions about "bases" & "tinting-systems"...

First off-
* I've had my hands in paint for nearly 10yrs, at an upscale Hardware/Furnishings, etc. store.
* We have ACE-Royal, Ralph-Lauren, & C2 paints.
* I've therefore been matching colors/tinting for a long time now, and have developed a good "base" of paint knowledge.

Chrisn is right concerning BM's Aura. It's colorants are VERY different than the normal Glycol-colorants that 98% of paint-lines use. Aura uses Acrylic colorants that are very opaque...you could actually PAINT with the colorants! Is the system cheap?!?!? Lord no!! The specialized tinters for Aura alone may approach $20K for some models. These colorants require a tinter with humidifier caps/lines so they don't dry out.

Taureg is a little too concerned about the "bases" issue.
* Yes, every paint-series/brand has its own tint-bases.
* Some are "whiter" than others, and transparency enters into this too.
* TECHNICALLY....there is no such thing as a perfect match between two different brands. It's just not possible, no matter HOW GOOD the scanner is!!
* I can get DAMN-NEAR perfect sometimes though!!! Mainly thru the scanner, and some intuition developed over the years!

Our C2 paint has SIXTEEN colorants to choose from! It's easy to match INTO C2 because of that.
However....we DON'T match C2 colors into lines/brands that have fewer colorants. It's just NOT possible with some of the more "complex" colors.

I know EXACTLY what the issues are with Gardenandcats red!!
(as does Chrisn I'm sure...)

Faron


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I know EXACTLY what the issues are with Gardenandcats red!!
(as does Chrisn I'm sure...)

Oh ya!


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Can you guys believe this thread was started November 7, 2006. Five years ago.

It's still a relevant topic - this amazes, yet never bores me.

Faron and Chrisn -- you can't leave us all hanging. Please -- do tell what are the issues with gardencats' red?

And I agree with Faron - color matching can't just be about what the computer spits out for a formula. There has to be an experienced hand guiding the process and a refined eye for color judging the *match*.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Oh Fun-C!!

YOU know what's goin' on too!!

You're more eloquent than I besides...;-)

Faron


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Drove by the local Home Depot today and they had a big sign outside that said they would beat any Sherwin Williams quote by 20%. Thought that was interesting.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

That is easy if THEY get to decide what is comparable paint.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I'd like to suggest that Home Depot is not the same as Behr. They sell Behr but they also sell other brands. i.e. Glidden and most recently Yolo Colorhouse.

So, ionized makes a great point - make sure they are comparing apples to apples. Beat a SW quote for Super Paint by 20% at the Home Depot with Yolo or a can of Glidden Professional - feasible. Beat a quote for a top tier SW grade of paint like Duration Matte. . . not so sure about that one.

As far as the red. 1) You need a high quality base as the vehicle to hold an abundance of colorant - like what is needed for some colors of red. 2) Even with a high quality base, some reds are very shear due to organic vs. inorganic *kind* of colorant required to achieve that particular red. 3) If it's a shear, organic red and a low quality tint base, there's nothing good about that situation. A quality tint base is defined by ratios of binders, fillers and titanium dioxide.

A general rule of thumb is you get what you pay for in a can of paint. There are a few sleeper brands out there that just kills it when it comes to value as defined by spread rate (like 400 sq ft per gallon) a.k.a. coverage priced per square foot - not per gallon. Like Diamond Vogel's Permacryl Eggshell and Ace's newest product line, Clark & Kensignton Eggshell.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Titanium dioxide is too white and opaque to produce a rich red (or dark) paint. All the brands I have looked at use little to no titanium dioxide in one of their bases, the base used for darks and reds. You can't mix titanium dioxide with any red pigment and get anything other than some shade of pink.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I'd like to mention that 'can't get' is a sissy reason not to have good paint. What with the expense and prep and all the stuff you got to do to get a house, inside or out, painted, you might as well use a quality paint so you don't have to do it so often
There are online stores that will send you paint via UPS ground. There are paint stores in the next town if you don't have one in yours. There are husbands and/or teenagers that can be sent out to get paint in return for appropriate incentives.
Don't settle for something you don't really want just because the paint store is not within walking distance.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

Try justifying that "philosophy" to clients who in no way would pay ups, fedex or any other delivery charges. They cetainly are not going to pay a "teenager" to grunt their materials with gas out here @ over 4 bucks a gallon on top of a days wages with the nearest paint outlet 80 miles away. It's area specific.


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another thought

Also meant to say that your attitude is dead on. Quality paint coupled with proper prep applications and all applied by a reputable, experienced finisher(s) = quality paint projects that will save money in the long run. Not all clients can be convinced of that.


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

I wanted to mention that SW is having their paint sale this weekend (20-23) -at least in our area - my friend received it in an email and passed it along to me. 40% off their paint. I don't know how often their paint goes on sale, but considering we're about ready to repaint our inside -it might be a good time for me to try SW


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RE: Sherwin Williams vs. Ben. Moore vs. Behr

It's so much fun to read all these comments. People saying "cover" when they mean "hide". Sprayers were invented so you don't have to pick up a brush? Behr is good paint, yes but is HD good too? People [painters?] who won't use anything but a certain brand. Paint that won't lie properly, as if paint could really tell the truth? Blaming the paint when the tape pulls it off?
Very entertaining!


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