Paint adhering problems

9 years ago

I've got a builder grade 80s home and I'm slowly painting and updating it. I'm working on the stairs now. The stringers, railing, newel posts are all stained oak that I want to paint semi-gloss white. I have seen my exact staircase on many blogs and forums, so I know it is a common configuration!

I used TSP first to get the grime off, then a light sanding with 100 grit. I then used Kilz Premium and let it dry 24 hours. I then used Benjamin Moore white semi-gloss (the Ben product). Two days later you can take your fingernail and gently scrape right down to the wood.

I have read so many articles and forum posts about priming and painting that I'm about to go blind, and I still don't see why the Kilz didn't work. I hate to use the oil-based Kilz because I don't want to use oil-based paint because of the VOC odors and clean up, and am pretty sure I'd have to if I use the original Kilz or the BIN product.

I've read about using a sander/deglossing product, I've read about Sherwin Williams Preprite Problock Seals and Bonds, and am not sure what I need here, but I DO know that I'm going to have to get all the paint off and start over, not anything I'm looking forward to, given the angles, curves and corners of the newel post and railing.

Any reason for the Kilz not to work after I used TSP and sanded?

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Comments (8)

geoffrey_b
9 years ago
Apparently the water based Kilz didn't adhere - or you coated before it dried.

I would have used the solvent base Kilz. Actually I would have just sanded and used an Acrylic enamel.
ewrightb
Original Author
9 years ago
Thank you, Geoffrey_B!

I have since learned that the water-based Kilz has some adhesion issues, and I'll use the solvent-based stuff in the future.

What is the difference between acrylic latex and acrylic enamel?
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tim45z10
9 years ago
Does the kilz label say anything about tsp?
tim45z10
9 years ago
BIN Zinnser is $50 a gal. It stuck to food grade plastic barrels. It is a primer.
Tint it to your final color. Start in a low seen spot. Test, paint, wait, test for stick. Start here and learn to use the bin. It dries fast and you cant blend in the next brushfull.
paintguy22
9 years ago
There is no need to use TSP. It needs to be rinsed very well which is impossible when you are washing spindles. I'm not saying that this is the reason your primer didn't stick, but TSP is just overkill for most normal prep for painting. Use Dirtex instead. You need to use a bonding primer. Kilz (oil) and Kilz latex are not bonders. The latex version of Kilz (Kilz2) should just be avoided entirely for any priming purpose. It's junk. Kilz oil based should only be used for killing stains and even for that, BIN is better. The best bonding primer around is BIN. All other high quality acrylic bonding primers should also work very well. I'm even using the BIN synthetic shellac lately and it's fantastic at sticking, doesn't smell and you can clean your brushes and rollers easily with water. You can also use Stix, BM's Fresh Start, C2 One, etc.

I wouldn't go and start removing all the paint just yet though. Since you did use a latex primer, it takes time to cure. As the paint cures, it should bond better. In a week, test it again and see if it is better.
ewrightb
Original Author
9 years ago
I just got back from Lowe's with some BIN and I'm confident if it doesn't adhere after a chance to cure, I'll remove it all and use the BIN. Before I saw your post, Paintguy, I had decided to quit fooling around and use the BIN shellac primer. I'm reassured!

I will also go ahead and use the BIN on the original (stained) spindles and handrails that I haven't gotten to yet, and be more confident the paint will adhere.

I have already used the Kilz Premium on bare pine risers (after sanding) followed by the BM white semi-gloss. It is adhering just fine after 2 days but I know I'll need another coat or two. How long should I give that to cure before adding more coats? I rushed it on some shelves once and they stayed sticky for months.

I very much appreciate the input!!
paintguy22
9 years ago
Well, curing time and time needed to recoat aren't really linked. It's true that it you apply another coat before the previous coat has dried enough you may re-wet the previous layer and create a big wet layer, but usually 4 hours with decent drying conditions is more than enough time to recoat. Always read the can though for recoat times.
LuisHinkle
9 years ago
Well the ideas you adopt is good but once you gather some information about paint on the internet. Once you consult with the painter contractor to know the problems arises in painting walls or wooden.

Here is a link that might be useful: painting contractors

This post was edited by LuisHinkle on Thu, Aug 28, 14 at 9:12