My kiddos mentioned that the ceiling looks remarkably similiar to the Target logo. Great, just great, and it does. (Sigh) I like your kids. :)

Hmmm, I thought Derby Red was from Ralph Lauren. Maybe they just had it mixed SW. ??? I don't get the neutral beige paint over the red. It's not like the oops paint is primer.

A sagey green, two coats of Duration and I'm thinkin' why would you not be good to go. Course I suppose it could matter if the sagey green was super light or something.

Are you sure that two coats of Duration will not cover the red? I'd be testin' that out before I monkey'd with oops beige for what could be no good reason.

Yep...
Derby Red is a RL color too. This kinda "color name" could be in many fandecks though...
I'm thinkin' Fun-C is right. That RL color was probably "matched" (or a facsimile thereof...) into a SW paint.

Yes...somethin' weird about giving you oops! paint for a primer??!?!?
I wouldn't give anyone oops!-paint for a primer!!!
(I usually suggest they buy ACTUAL PRIMER...)

If your Sagey-green is in a whiter tint-base, it'll hide the Red anyway.
* Primers are primarily for adhesion.
* Chemically, they're substantially different than paint.
* A secondary benefit is visually hiding previous colors, and providing a "Gray-scale" under transparent/deep colors.

Faron

It sounds like somebody was trying to get rid of some Oops paint to me.

i never post on here but! i feel i must! PRIMER, lots of primer. you really need primer! (previous red paint experience)

Based on my previous experience with red paint, I would use primer.

If you were going the other way around (green to red), a tinted primer might be necessary only to achieve complete hide but in this case, the others are correct, you do not need a primer.

If you were going the other way around (green to red), a tinted primer might be necessary only to achieve complete hide but in this case, the others are correct, you do not need a primer.

Listen to the man!

Thank you all for all of your inputs. Just reading the answers themselves has given me an education. I stand corrected, the paint is indeed a SW color match of Derby Red by RL. Boy, is it red...

OK...so the consensus is that the oops paint is now my problem to properly dispose of. I was heading to the 'not suitable for recycling place' anyway with all of the left-over red paint anyway! (smile)

After careful consideration and a realistic evaluation of just how fervently I hope to avoid priming, I am going to give a section of wall two coats of sagey green and see what happens. My husband is currently deployed right now, so I can create huge chaos in the dining room for months and not sweat it. I'll keep you posted as to the rest of the story.

Thanks much!
Jen

I am going to give a section of wall two coats of sagey green and see what happens

That should do it, just be sure that after all this you get a quality roller cover and brush, don't buy the cheapo stuff at Lowe's or Home Depot. Ask at a real paint store and go with a good 1/2 inch cover

Just curious:

Is red somehow less opaque and able to cover? It would seem that it would be harder to cover without primer, rather than easier. I have a soft sage in my bedroom and it seems too placid and submissive (but in a very good way!) to dominate a strong red.

The "strength" of a color and the hiding power of a color are two completely different things. Since lighter colors benefit from the use of TiO2, they tend to hide well anyway. Same goes for deeper colors that use inorganic pigments (like a rust color). But when it comes to clean yellows and reds, these organic pigments tend to be fairly transparent, thus the need for tinted primers and/or more coats.

DIY painting skillset can also come into play. Even if a lighter green has by its very nature good hiding power, if it's rolled or brushed on too thinly, not at the appropriate spread rate, then it could appear so that the inaccurate assumption is made that the problem is that a primer should have been used. When in fact they just aren't getting the right amount, enough paint on the wall.

Not enough paint on the roller or brush is, from my experience, a kinda common issue for DIYers. Usually stems from not knowing how to figure how much paint is needed from the get-go and from the first brush stroke on it's about *stretching* the paint.

It does depend on the technical features of the color per se, but it also matters how it gets put on the wall in order to cover the previous color.

Morale of the story is take the time to figure out how much paint you really need and how much is suppose to end up on the wall with each coat then buy an adequate amount of paint so you don't have to stress about stretching.

There is also this misconception in our society that you need primers when painting over dark colors. I've always wondered how that got started. It's so bad that paint clerks working in paint stores even suggest priming even though they inherently know that it's not necessary. I have even had customers tell me, the painter, that I need to prime because I'm painting over a dark color!

Funcolors~ "DIY painting skillset," what a delicate way of phrasing you have! I shall repeat that as my mantra with every blessed brushstroke.

Paintguy(s)~You two have been so informative and helpful. I bought into that school of thought that red would be all but impossible to cover--probably because the dining room looks so scary!

Christophern~I'll purchase quality tools. Thanks for the tip!

what a delicate way of phrasing you have

That was really nice to say, thank you. But it made me laugh. Delicate phrasing isn't exactly what funcolors is best known for. Slightly acerbic, blunt, major paint and color 'tude is probably more accurate. But at least people remember me, right? (batting eyelashes + girlie giggle)
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. .
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Okay, so for real, I only bat my eyelashes when I'm choking on hot spicy foods and a girlie giggle will happen when hell freezes over. Just because I'll be giddy to finally see it happen since everyone has been talking about it for so long.

girlie giggle will happen when hell freezes over.

Or maybe when priming an enclosed 3 by 5 powder room with Kilz original without your respirator?

Ha! *Paint* humor, it's so fun! lol! :~))

Wow, I can see that I have stumbled across some pretty tough company hangin around here on the Paint board. You guys are seriously fun people!

So...funcolors, help me out here (again please) becauses in addition to realizing that I do not yet come close to posessessing a 'DIY painting skillset' (grin), I now also realize that I do not have the faintest clue as to how to describe a color properly.

My self described sagey green paint for my dining room is actually very similiar to EK's Tulip Leaves, although admittedly not quite as lush. It is the same color that is in my family room and adjoining kitchen and I adore it. We have lots of floor to ceiling windows and our house is situated with wetlands/woodlands behind us. To me, the feeling of being enveloped in 'green' is delicious. Serious question, how would you accurately describe EK's Tulip Leaves in terms of color? Inquiring minds want to know...

Jen

PS--I probably wouldn't have bet the farm on your girly giggle or batting eyelashes, but a color 'tude? Oh yeah!! That bet I'd take...

It's not me. It's Chirs. I swear. He's the ornery one. (he loooooves Behr Paint, btw. Just ask him.)

The short answer: The goal when I mixed Tulip Leaves was to make a color that was alive and snappy and that people could actually live with. It's a hybrid green with what I think it the perfect nuance.

The long answer: It started out with a yellow-green provenance and I shifted it to a bluer green but not so far that it lost it's yellow, warmer edge -- ergo, hybrid.

Tulip Leaves is about balance. (insert typical funcolor's voice that always pushes color balance and balanced color). Tulip Leaves speaks to what I think an authentic, natural, earthy green should speak to. It's the right balance of everything important and pays proper respect to the *kind* of green you see, experience in nature.

To my eye, Tulip Leaves is not so overworked that all the vibrancy has been sucked out of it, but it's not SO vibrant that it's intolerable for a wide variety of color tolerance.

And it's built full spectrum. I like to imagine and pretend in my head that Tulip Leave's spectral curve could look like a pleasant, satisfied grin belonging to a person of lovely demeanor who can get along with anyone. And like that person of amicable demeanor, Tulip Leaves gets along famously with many as well; people as well as all different wavelengths of light, spectral power distribution of inherent light, that beams into a room -- any room.

We need more hybrid colors with spectral curves that make sense, not just anti-metamer. Even tho pretending they're all grins is fun, it's not practical. (that last statement might not make sense to everyone, I know.)

Here is a link that might be useful: What the heck does spectral curve mean?

Didn't someone once say, "Me thinks thou doth protest too much..." And what of poor poor Chris? I have a sneaking suspicion that if he were here, the finger would be pointing right back at you, Missy. Yes ma'am, I can sense there is mischief afoot on this board, right here in River City! (wicked grin)

The short answer reply: Thank you.

The long answer reply: Seriously, I can never thank you enough. What a 'user friendly' answer to a rather complex (once you delve below the surface) question. Now I have homework to read in the form of that amazingly detailed link you provided.

You put it into words. Balance and nuance. Those are the fundamental reasons why I adore Tulip Leaves (and the somewhat similiar faux SW color that I have 5 gallons of.) Oh dear, now I wonder if I need to just bite the bullet and order Tulip Leaves before I even begin this endeavor. (Sighing again) It is quite simply a luscious color. Very natural, very serene, very livable. Altogether amazing. Love it!

Oh, and you solved the mystery for me... After reading your reply, I now know why I find the RL Derby Red so disturbing. It is SO vibrant, that it is intolerable (to me.) Just waaay too much punch for my senses coming at me from all four walls (and the Target logo on the ceiling!) By the way, my kids think it is wonderful that a color guru enjoys their humor. (They are a threesome of teen daughters with wry, witty, and wicked ways.)

Try to stay out of trouble. Maybe go create some more hybrid colors. Pretty please?

Thanks.

Jen

This thread has been very interesting and informative!! I currently have painted my hallway 'spicy bananna pepper' from Home Depot. I think it is a Behr paint. Anyway, it looked great in the ad I saw. Probably needs a MUCH larger room!!!. The result is awful. It is a very bright yellow!! Would I need a primer first or would two coats of a good paint-any color, cover the yellow? My floors are ceramic tile-white with a little blue and beige threading threw it. ANy suggestions on a new color? My family room which opens into the hall is a medium blue so I would like that to co-ordinate. Thanks in advance!

Primer is a must to get a good finish over red paint. I would not try it any other way

I would agree with that if the best grade of paint available is not an option, accessible. Cheaper grades and quality of paints could very well have hiding issues over the red.

If using a top grade, top quality can of paint like Aura from BenM, for example, then after one coat the red would not be distinguishable thru the new sagey green color.

I have this same problem and am wondering if Kilz will do the trick? Will I have to do 2 coats of primer? Sorry to be such a neophyte painter. My red is a RL red...Stadium Red and it is dark. Also in a bedroom. Big whoops. Used to be with cream/red toile, but even then a red bedroom? What was I thinking?

Good luck with the dining room. Do the primer for sure.

No. You won't need two coats of primer. You won't even need ONE coat of primer if you're using a top quality paint.
HOWEVER, It can depend on the new color -- you should ask the paint store about the hiding ability of the new color you select. The focus in determining if primer is needed should be on the new colors going OVER the red, the condition of the walls to be painted (the substrate), and the quality of the paint chosen for the new, recolor/repaint.

Just because red is often difficult to paint *on* and get an even opacity, doesn't mean it's going to be difficult to cover when you're done with it.

There are some dark greens that telegraph more thru a first, new coat of color more so than any red ever could.

The issue is not the color, the current RED color, that is currently on the wall that would cause a need to use a primer. The factor of "red" is actually a moot point.

Okay. Thank you. I prefer BM Aura. The paint will be a light stone color.

I prefer BM Aura

Oh, should be perfect then. Aura + the usually great support from a BenM store and you should be in great shape.