New but related to thread, obv: the whole flat vs satin for exteriors. Having c.1950s house with original wide siding painted. Agonized (so it seems!) over colors. I raced out to get paint samples, we applied, even took chips around the area to compare colors (ended up meeting fabulous older woman). I digress.

SO finally decided on color, painters are now here-- half the house is done, hubby is now V V unhappy with me (I negotiated bids, contract) b/c they used FLAT paint instead of SATIN [he painted houses for like, one summer? 40 years ago].

I don't remember to be honest, in the flurry of calls and dealing with mother and mother-in-law with dementia why flat seemed to be the way to go.

can this marriage be saved? will the house be filthy and mud covered because we went with flat paint and therefore can't wash it?! fwiw: husband is great, painters are great, life is just hard now and yes, I'm going to call the contractor tomorrow]

IMO flat is a mistake, but I am just a lowly painter who knows nothing.

Help! We just started painting our 1970 Tudor style home. We were away on vacation and when we returned, we found the house to be painted in a satin finish. Everything! Stucco, trim, doors, siding. It seems shiny. Thoughts? I see it will be better in dirt and longevity, but too much shine? I know this thread is old, but it's the best I have found.

Is it real stucco? Or stucco-look boards?

Real stucco. On a wire/mesh backing. We had ripped off all the rotten boarding and replaced, so we got a good look at the whole picture.

Typically fresh stucco is not painted at all. Certainly not with a semi gloss.

Wow my painter just painted the trim semi gloss. :(

If youir trim was in good shape (a soound surface), but only faded, a semi-gloss finish will be fine. My comment is mainly about surfaces that have failed due to peeling paint, especially surfaces that are showing bare wood in places.

Well it was not great but not horrible . . .

For exterior brick, would a flat finish be durable enough? I don't like the sheen of satin. The brick face has a medium texture if that makes a difference. The brick has never been painted before, it's in good shape, 50 years old, and the color would be a dark color.

@reliablepainters- I couldn't tell from your post above, what would you recommend for a stucco house? We have an english tudor house and I don't want any shine.

You definitely want to use a dead flat exterior acrylic (water based) paint on stucco. I would avoid paint that builds a thicker film, as you want water vapor to move easily through the coating. A big secret to painting stucco is to wet the stucco with a garden house before painting the stucco. (Wait until the water has dried off the surface of the stucco before beginning to paint, as you do not want water on the stucco to dilute the paint.) The dampness of the stucco will help the paint penetrate the surface, and it will also make it much easier if you are rolling stucco onto the surface.

Probably one of the worst mistakes I see in painting stucco is the failure to clean the stucco before painting it. "Cleaning" does not mean scrubbing—it means ensuring that there are no microscopic agents on the surface (like mold or mildew) that can interfere with the adhesion of the paint. These agents can survive under the paint and—over time—will push the paint off. I recently painted a previously painted masonry chimney where pieces of paint the size of dinner plates were lifting off the surface. Beneath the removed paint were large patches of green and black growth. You can avoid this by using a cleaning product on your stucco before painting. (This applies to repainting stucco, as well.) You can use bleach or buy a commercial product such as "Moldex" to kill microscopic agents before you paint.

Start by dampening the stucco with your garden hose. Then use a garden spray attachment (or a paint roller) to apply the cleaning product. (Observe safety precautions, as you do not want to inhale these products.) Then rinse the surface thoroughly with the garden hose to remove the residue of cleaning product. Wait for the surface to dry, and you're ready to paint.

I've always painted siding, stucco or brick with a flat paint, and the trim and shutters with a semi-gloss. I've never had a problem with keeping it clean due to gloss of paint - it's the quality of the paint that matters when it comes to washability. Trim is traditionally painted with a semi-gloss. For years, it was oil; now acrylic holds the color and avoids fading far better than oil. But...if painting OVER oil, it typically must be primed first of the acrylic won't stick. I know that SW now has acrylic paint that can be used over oil without priming - I have used it - so far, so good.

Thank you Anglophilla and Reliablepainters. Have either of you used C2 paint? C2 has a Matte finish, which they say is latex flat, but at the paint store they said if we want a dead flat paint I'd need to match the color and use a contractor's grade flat paint. What are your thoughts? With our tudor I don't want any sheen if possible.

I have heard of C2, but have not used it.

We are painting the exterior of our 15-yr-old home next week and are trying to decide on the paint sheen. Most of our home is Hardiplank lap siding but there a few accent areas of wood batt & board and some gables with cedar shingles. It's all in good shape for the most part. My painter recommended Duration Satin but I don't like shiny paint and darker colors always seem to appear even shinier than light colors when satin paint is used. (We are going with a medium to darker gray color.) I'm leaning towards going with Duration Flat. Would this be a good choice for Hardiplank? Does anyone know if Duration flat is a 'washable' flat? (We currently have a flat paint on our house and never felt the need to wash it, but maybe darker colors don't show the dirt as much...?) We live north of Seattle so get a lot of rain, cool temps and humidity. Appreciate any advice on this... thanks!

Duration Flat is a washable flat. Darker colors and really light colors show dirt more. For the cedar boards and the shingles, you should use a solid color 100 percent acrylic stain.

Also, I have used C2. The matte is a washable flat. I have only used it inside and found it to not be washable at all...not sure about the exterior version, but I can only assume it wouldn't be any different from the inside version.

As it happens, I was just looking at the Sherwin Williams website today - they have a "low sheen" option for some of their exterior paints. What is that - midway between flat and satin? Or between satin and semi-gloss?

I would say that low sheen is between flat and satin, but I'm pretty sure that sheen level is only for certain lines of paint so you need to look at that lines individually and see what they offer. And, I think these companies just love to keep us all confused.

Thank you both for your feedback. Question for @paintguy22... you recommended using an a solid color 100% acrylic stain for our wood surfaces. Can that be used when they were previously painted with regular paint? Also what is the 'C2' you mentioned?

We have Hardiplank siding with a definite faux grain texture and I fear it will show too much texture with satin so think flat is better. Would you agree that using Duration flat on hardiplank is a good choice?

I am really horrified I just had my house painted in two coats of Valspar "Reserve" Exterior Satin. Their high end expensive line. It is VERY shiny. I hate it. I am fine with shine on trim and doors, but I do not like shine on Hardiplank siding. It looks like cheap vinyl. No other house in our neighborhood is shiny like this - they are ALL flat. So I am so surprised to see so many posts saying "never flat." Our paint for 18 years (painted twice in 18 years) was flat. Every other house in our hood is flat. I want to coat over it, but I hear I will likely need two coats of flat to cover the shine, or primer first. Not at all happy with this Satin.

tionegan,

I have HardiPlank and have used the Behr Ultra Flat on it. I too don't like the shine on that faux wood texture of HardiPlank. If you decide to "face off" your shiny paint with a lower sheen, the Behr Ultra can go directly over it without a primer. Make sure to lay it out well, as missed areas will show up as a shiny spot. As the color will be the same ( I assume), it would be easy to leave a "holiday", as painter's call such misses.

I having been doing a lot of research to figure out all the variables when it comes to painting my home exterior since it is quite a costly event. I want to make sure I will be happy with it and get longevity (some paint colors have tints that easily fade in UV light and you will have to paint even sooner). I have discovered while the paint co & painters push sheen over flat paint (costs more too), eggshell just looks weird on the outside body of the house where greater light hits it. The eggshell higher sheen paint will appear a bit darker due to light refraction (color more true to sample) than flat which absorbs light and gives a much lighter/softer appearance and that is a fact. The contents of the paint will have more to do with how long it lasts under the sun and water resistant than sheen type. Although wood/ trim/doors should be painted a gloss.. If you buy cheap paint it doesn't matter what it's sheen; you will not get the best performance.

Yep. Which is why I absolutely advise against custom mixed and tweaked paint colors. People get all wrapped up in the cache of a designer or custom color and are completely clueless about the consequences. Cutting formulas by 25%, 50% or adjusting the color formula in any way is a bad plan.

If you know how to leverage all the colors from all the paint brands available in order to find the "right" color, you don't have to do default to custom mixed or tweaked.

I posted a similar question awhile back, I was asking about flat vs satin for exterior brick. Just an update on my situation, I have decided AGAINST traditional paint for the exterior of my brick home. I've done a lot of research and have decided to go with ROMABIO mineral paint. From their website: "BioDomus I & BioDomus II are Organic, breathable mineral based paints that do NOT seal the brick, but rather the natural ingredients calcify to the brick. This creates a long lasting paint that is extremely durable, and won’t peel or flake off." I like the idea that this is not just coating the brick and sealing it, but rather it seems to almost become part of the brick. It also supposedly allows the brick to breathe, which is important to me. We are going to be doing our project in the Spring (2017) so I'll come back and update once it's done. I got a sample of it last Fall and I really liked it. The Romabio has a ton of colors and they match colors, however we are just going with white.

co3,

it sounds like the product is describing "stucco". It too is"breathable mineral based...that do not seal the brick(which )calcify to the brick". Stucco is periodically re-coated with a top coat which is basically a slurry of Portland cement.

Acrylic based paints are also breathable, that is why they are the paint of choice over oil based products.

It sounds like the ROMABIO product is hitting the critical notes, being breathable and non-sealing. While all acrylic paints may be "theoretically" breathable, I can tell you from my decades of experience, that their breathability can be questionable, depending on the resins in the product. I have seen some acrylics that could be peeled off a deteriorating exterior window sill in solid pieces 18 inches long. A product—like this—that has so much structural integrity that it maintains a continuous film 5 years of more after application is NOT what I would call "breathable."

Ideally, I want a product applied to masonry (or to a questionable substrate) to not form such a structurally sound film. I want moisture to be able to pass through it in both directions. This is what I call a breathable coating.

On a side note, the questionable "breathability" of many acrylic paints is why it is inadvisable to paint a wood deck surface that is less than 18 inches above grade. The moisture that accumulates under such a deck will certainly bubble the acrylic paint, even if there are gaps between the deck boards for moisture to escape. This happens because all acrylic paints are NOT breathable. In fact, if a surface coating is bubbled by moisture, you can be assured it is not sufficiently breathable.

The "perm" rating of an acrylic paint can easily be checked on the manufacturer's website specs. I would caution that not all "latex" paints are created equal. Many are not acrylic at all. Pure acrylic paints are considered state of the art for most home coatings presently.

Reliable Painters,

I would not recommend ANY paint on decks. I am not a fan of acrylic based stains either. Oil based tansparent stains will still give the best results, although requjiring more frequent refresher coating.

Those are good points, David. Although in checking for a perm rating of a few Benjamin Moore Aura products, I was unable to find any such rating in their spec sheets. (It may exist, but I couldn't find it.) Even with 45 years of experience in the painting business, I also have to admit I am not sure I would understand the rating if I saw it. I guess it's a void in my painting education.

ROMABIO is potassium silicate mineral paint. No solvents, no fumes, etc.

Every paint has a solvent, be it mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, alcohol or WATER. Obviously, water is the less objectionable to most humans. Every paint has some form of resin or binder, that which holds the pigment in suspension until it dries. I suspect the function of the potassium silicate is that of the pigment. Many paints have silicates in them, mostly functioning as inexpensive pigments.

Reliable Painter,

Perm ratings would not normally be of interest with interior paints. Many primers, which claim to be moisture barriers, would carry such a rating. Exterior paints are also concerned with perm ratings, as not trapping moisture within a wall cavity is a very desirable feature. this is the main reason "latex" paints are a quantum leap over oil paints. Oil paints don't breath well!

A perm rating measures how well a barrier, such as a paint film, passes water vapor. The higher the number, the moret vapor it will pass. Numbers below "1" i.e. .01 , are generally impermeable, "10" is very permeable.

"Every paint has a solvent"

oops. I did say "no solvents". Why on earth did I say that? lol. Thanks for correcting that.

We are having our house repainted. Our house is brick and wood. House was built in 1995. Our painter is suggesting a satin paint/finish instead of a matte finish. I have been reading through this thread, but a lot of the information is old. What do people recommend? We live in Michigan, so we have all four seasons. Based on the age of our house, location, and wood siding, what is best? Our painter said most people use satin. However, I am nervous it will be too glossy/shiny. Thoughts? Also, we are having our painter restain our deck. Any recommendations for stains/colors? Thanks!

Satin. I'm from Ohio so I get the Michigan thing.

Stain color is an art all by itself. Seek advice from the colorist at the paint store that mixes the stain - every store has one.

Satin does clean easier and literally is better at not catching airborne dirt. However, I believe textures siding, such as T-111 of rough cedar, just don't look good with a lot of sheen. It does not look natural. It terms of durability, I believe a quality flat finish is just as long lasting as a higher sheen. I have Hardi-Plank on my home and chose to use Behr Ultra Flat house paint.

I'm planning to have my 1959 concrete block home professionally painted in Florida. One painter says to go flat, another says "no way" satin is the only way to go. I'm so confused. Also, 1 uses SW a-100, the other Behr Premium Plus and the 3rd SW Resilience. The Resilience is of course the highest bid, but I've read it's not as good as SW Super Paint. Read that Behr Ultra Exterior is pretty good. Can anyone advise on finishes and brands please.

I personally feel that textured surfaces look better flat, that said, satin will be easier to clean and actually resists dirt slightly better than a flat. either way, be sure that your painter is using top of the line paint. Don't simply settle for "I'm using Sherwin Williams or Ben Moore", but ask specifically which grade of that brand, then call the dealer and ask if it is the top of the line. To use less than top of the line is penny wise and pound foolish. It is the same amount of the labor for the painter, but the difference will show up in the long term endurance of the paint job. The painter giving a flat price has a vested interest in using the cheaper paint.

I agree with David. Use a flat paint for best appearance, a satin for easier cleaning. If a masonry type of paint is available, I would consider using it, as it may contain ingredients which will bind better to concrete blocks. My biggest tip is to make certain the surface is clean, because no matter what paint you use, if the surface is not clean you will be shortening the life of the paint job. Personally, I would wash the surface down with a solution of bleach or a solution of TSP. Either way, rinse the surface thoroughly after washing and before painting.

@Brenda I'm in a similar paint situation. (Hardie plank with texture grain) What did you end up deciding on paint type? Thinking about Duration/flat.

We ended up using a satin finish (Benjamin Moore paint). House looks amazing!

I have a aluminum siding that has some dents. With any sort of sheen it will make those dents highly visible & that is worse

We are in the middle of painting our lakeside cedar shake home Hale Navy by Ben Moore. I can tell you this their Aura Low Lustre paint is very shiny in the sun... don’t do it! Our Painter had had very good results with it in the past on other homes.. but had not yet used it on a deep dark color. He even commented it sometimes can have an annoying sheen to it it was making some of our shingles look almost plastic in the sun. Yuk! We are returning the low lustre exterior Aura paint and replacing it with BM Hale Navy Aura exterior FLAT! Hope it covers the sheen in one coat! It might take two. Onward we go...

The extra colorant needed for darker colors adds some sheen.

Sheen exterior dies down in a matter of a few weeks. It won't look as shiny as is does now. Something to keep in mind.

I agree with Reliable Painters.

The flat sheen, because it's not high gloss it hides a lot of imperfection in the wood thus making it the best choice in the event the house is old, paint is peeling etc.

SW duration is one of the best paints available. It cover wells, last longer and it's easy to work with.

SerpaPro Painting

Trying to decide on satin SW super paint or SW Duration matte for painting exterior brick house. help

You couldn't PAY me enough to put Flat on my house!!!! Good luck keeping it clean.

Why do think there's almost ZERO Matte/Flat paints on Cars?! There's a very obvious answer......

I suppose it’s a choice… paint with a gloss and have your poor-condition siding look even worse… or peel. Or paint with matte and have it look better, but get dirty. On cars, you don’t have paint peeling off a wood substrate. You don’t usually have a half dozen coats of previously applied paint of dubious integrity. I don’t think comparing the paint on a car to paint on a house stands up very well

Many paint selections involve compromise.

satin SW super paint

Arguably one of the best values for what you get in the can. I also love the final look/hand of the exterior satin. It's pretty. Don't let the initial shine scare you because it does dissipate a bit over 2 to 3 weeks. Not so noticeable with lighter colors, more so with darker

Good luck getting SW paint at the moment. They had one of their main plants in Texas go down during the February deep freeze and it apparently is still not up and running. They also got themselves into a disadvantageous contract to supply Lowes, which is biting them in the butt. So what did SW do? They raised their over priced paint once again! The whole paint industry is really disrupted at the moment. Fortunately, Behr is in relatively good shape as to production. They even came out with their new super premium Dynasty line this week. Super paint in the MId $50 range.

Both SW and PPG have been in buy out the competition programs for the last couple decades. In retrospect, maybe they should have been paying better attention and investing in their own core operations.