When I was working, I had the messiest desk around. That's because all my projects were on-going, never finished. And I was the "go to" person of my office. If any manager wanted something done, they gave it to me, and it was added to a pile on my desk. And I did accomplish a lot. I just never got to a point where I had nothing left to do. Anything one does has a ripple effect and causes other tasks to appear. And I was the one who never said "no". I can do it, I can do it all was my motto. I had a sign once, "an empty desk is a sign of an idle mind". Thanks for an interesting side of clutter. I agree it's not all negative.

"I say, It's all about balance. "

I agree with you there. Why should a naturally neat person try to create clutter in their lives? Just so those guys can sell a book, I guess.

All I know is that if I had learn neatness and organizational skills 40 years ago, my life would have been a heck of a lot easier most of the time.

I think no one wants to look at lost productivity due to lack of organization. So, balance? I don't think it quite applies in this situation like I would apply it to eating cake vs. apples.

I'm on an art quilt list and this discussion crops up fairly frequently. The messy crew just won't quite accept that the neat crew is as creative as they are. I'm not sure why the need to justify either behavior.

I just know from growing up with a messy mother, I'd take a neat and organized one any day. It wasn't fun.

Gloria

I know that I feel better, more efficient, more in control when there's less mess. But there are other times when I am glad I did not take the advice of the folks who say throw out anything you haven't used in a year.

For example: I am still working making on my 3-year old grandson's Christmas gift (nothing like waiting till the last minute, eh?) -- a puppet theatre that can be hung in a doorway on a tenion curtain rod, and an assortment of hand puppets. I'm glad I didn't throw away that red tablecloth with the dark stain in the middle. It was the basis for my hanging theatre, which I lined with blue fabric inherited from my MIL's stash when she got too old to quilt anymore. The shiny black "stage curtains" I fashioned from fabric left from when I sewed a pair of fancy slacks I needed for a cruise we took a cruise five years ago. The stage that gave some rigidity to the whole thing I made from wood I scavenged from the garage -- leftover baseboard from our living room remodel. And the ugly, garish jungle print curtain from a rental house we bought three years ago, that's one of the interchangeable backdrops for the stage. I made another backdrop from some old unholstery toile scraps. The puppets I made from among other things, single socks, rick rack snippets, odd buttons, felt, leather, pieces of ribbon, broken earrings, and pieces of a now-threadbare blanket my parents brought back from the Southwest in 1968. I'm recycling, and having fun, setting a good example for him, and saving money.

It is difficult if you like to be creative to keep an uncluttered home. That's why I say there has to be a balance. I keep "junk" but I keep it organized. Everyone's different. I do agree with Gloria because I know life can be hell for people who never learned the satisfaction and ease of an organized home.

I think the "balance" point is wherever is comfortable (and healthy) for each household. I could make everyone crazy constantly policing every item out of place. I could also make our lives more stressful by being completely disorganized and overwhelmed by excess stuff. Unfortunately we're tipping toward the latter just now. The key is being able to find things, and not wasting time moving things around. That neatness balance point may be different for different families.

I was the "neat" and my ex was the "messy" (we never changed in that regard). That did not create a balance. "Neat" had "issues" with "messy" forgetting to pay bills because they were who-knows-where and weren't seen in time, and "messy" hated being nagged by "neat" to do something about the "visual noise" that was her nightstand, her closet, her desk, ...

Both of us have learned to tolerate the opposite behavior. But it took a long time and that tolerance is not natural for either one of us. I think there's a continuum between making sure all the spice bottles are placed in size order and facing forward ... and leaving them (including duplicates of the ones you couldn't find last time) all over the kitchen counter. I'd be hard-pressed to say one is "more creative" than the other.

Interesting article.

I do look at co-workers with CLEAN desks and wonder WHAT they do all day besides organize their desks. LOL There are a couple guys there who could get far more done if they'd quit spending so much time organzing and just DO THE WORK (we have more than our fair share of obsessive-compulsive employees with tidyness issues).

I thought the part about "messy kitchen" meaning no home cooked meals was an odd comment. My kitchen is CLEAN when I cook, since I clean as I go. DH cooks "messy" but doesn't clean as he goes. My way is better. LOL (Truly it *is* better, because by the time we sit down to eat, the only mess left is the dishes we're using at the table.)

My sons tend to live in messy bedrooms, but they do know HOW to clean them. It's their choice NOT to clean (until mama can't stand it anymore). I was the same way as a teenager, it's just part of growing up and finding their own identity and learning to deal with their own space. I see no reason to enforce strict rules on THEIR space (unless company is coming LOL). My very-messy college age son is finding it hard living with 10 guys and living with other people's messes. He's learning that it's not as "fun" or "free spirited" or whatever he thought it was.

Pink Overalls brings up a good point about defining clutter. What I would consider "clutter" is what she considers "craft supplies". There's a difference--she would use them, I wouldn't. To me, clutter is what serves no purpose.... like this shelf over the computer I keep meaning to take off the wall!

Very interesting article. I used to do medical billing and one morning the office manager and I had a "special talk". I got a lecture about my messy desk. Keep in mind that I was in an office in the basement that patients never saw. I guess it wasn't important to her that I billed 3 times as much as my predecessor with the neat desk.....I gave my notice shortly thereafter and found another office that valued productivity over appearances:)

I have had a housekeeping company for 15 years.

I think finding a comfortable "balance" is key to keeping a house in general.

Some people are neat naturally, some are messy. Some can function looking at a mess, others can't.

I also think that the "balance" must coincide with "what gives you comfort". How can you have peace and comfort looking at a mess??? You can't. If you think you can, you need to see a therapist, something I would recommend for the people who wrote this article for NY Times.

SG

I didn't read the whole article, just the quotes posted. If my only experience with the issue was my MIL's home, where even the 150 empty margarine tubs were stacked neatly in a drawer, and nothing could be left out of place, and everything had to be done RIGHT NOW, I might have a bit more sympathy with the author.

But having lived many years with DH, who covers every single horizontal surface with messy stuff, and having paid bills late myself because I didn't know where they were, I see the issue quite a bit differently! I think most of the clutter-busters out there are encouraging us to get organized enough to have a life.

I once worked for a company where the Chairman of the Board was notorious for insisting on a perfectly clean desk. (He was a former submarine captain.) Since I worked in a different city I didn't often see him. But one day he was in our office and our President stopped by and introduced him to me. I was a bit mortified over the huge numbers of open files on my desk at the time. It had been a day of non-stop phone calls, and I never had time to close up one file before starting on another problem. Later someone explained to me that a working mess didn't bother the Chairman - it was just supposed to be tidied up at the end of the day. A very sensible philosophy, imo.

How can you have peace and comfort looking at a mess??? You can't. If you think you can, you need to see a therapist, something I would recommend for the people who wrote this article for NY Times.

Ah, but here you uncover a perception issue. I like things neat and I like them simple. A kitchen like this Poggenpohl one sets my mind at ease. A living room like this "eclectic" one gives me figurative hives. But others would see my ideal kitchen as cold and uninviting and the makes-me-edgy living room as a soft place with lots of comforting objects.

I agree that people would find it difficult to enjoy peace while looking at a mess. But sometimes what one of us sees as a mess is another person's comfort zone.

( Studies are piling up that show that messy desks are the vivid signatures of people with creative, limber minds (who reap higher salaries than those with neat "office landscapes")

Really? and who did the studies--really messy people? Because if so, their statistics may be in question.

But, Steve, would you agree that while the eclectic has more "stuff" it isn't dirty or a mess with items out of place or strewn all over? Nothing to trip over or have to move in order to use the furniture.

To me, a mess is more defined by the function of the area. If I can't walk across a floor without kicking something out of the way, it's a mess. If I can't sit without moving items, it's a mess. Same with my desk, if I can't write without moving papers, it's a mess. I can have visual calm even if a room is full of items. A bookcase can be totally full and I'm ok with it. Once the shelves start sagging and items start falling out, is when it hits the mss level for me.

Gloria

Again, I think it's a matter of semantics. I think we could all agree that a room without a clear path on the floor or one with decaying food or laundry truly is a "mess". I would agree with most of your definitions of a mess.

However, on the few occasions I've had to visit my ex's place, I see dozens of kitchen appliances and gadgets on the counter and "stuff" on just about every surface of the house, stopping just short of occluding those surfaces. It looks like the "eclectic" room I linked to above, without the style.

My ex obviously is quite comfortable with things this way -- she has no one else to please with home decor and if it really bothered her -- I would think -- she would do something about it.

I view several non-picture books and bric-a-brac on the coffee table and clothing on the bed and a cluttered countertop as "mess" even if it does not meet your definition. One of our longer-standing arguments was over her wanting to leave the bedroom closet door open to permit easy access at all times. Well, it was no showplace closet, and I preferred not to see the clutter. That looks "messy" to me -- even though the closet was fulfilling its function completely.

I believe in balance plus comfort. Because we are all wired differently, those two things differ greatly.

My house is not what I consider immaculate (I've got three large dogs) but other people seem to think it is. I guess compared to theirs, it is.

My house is my refuge. A sense of calm comfort or (warm fuzzies) as I like to put it, is simply a must both inside and out. Clutter interrupts that.

SG

I think "messiness" IS very relative. I posted earlier about my messy desk. I didn't think it was messy. I had piles organized on my desk. One for office visits, one for clinics, one for hospital visits and one that I needed to research in order to bill. I had an immediate handle on what needed to be done and I was able to prioritize and organize my day more effectively and therefore be more productive. There was no extraneous crap on it, and I filed every day before leaving. All my office manager saw was "mess".

As a naturally messy person, I would love to agree with the opinion of that article. But even I cannot. It just seems to make an excuse for not trying harder.
I am most comfortable with a "lived in" look. Steve's kitchen pic is pretty, but, to me, it looks like no one uses it. So if I were a guest in that home, I'd be afraid to get a glass of water. Even as a teen at home, when I cleaned my room I would finish by turning down the bed covers, laying a book on it and putting some papers and a pen on the desk. Like life was in progress there, then it felt right to me.

As a mother, I need a certain amount of organization in the house. But the effort to keep it perfect cannot consume my mind, then I'd be the housekeeper not the mother.

When my kids are grown and on their own and someone asks them "Did your mother keep house like a neat freak or a slob?" the best I could hope for would be "I don't remember." I don't want my housekeeping standards to be what they remember about their childhood. I don't want them to remember that it was so perfect they weren't allowed to have fun or have friends over. (Like DH remembers, and no pets b/c they're messy.) I also don't want them to remember it as so messy they couldn't have friends over for embarrassment.

So anyway. I'd like to celebrate my messy side like the article encourages. But I know there is a time for both creative messiness and peaceful organization. There is value in keeping both in your life, not either or.

Well, I guess I'm more anal than I thought!

What others consider a mess, I consider filth. What others can't be bothered with, I would have trouble sleeping if I knew it existed.

If you were to take a photo of my kitchen at any given time, you probably wouldn't think it is ever used. (it is, there is always something going on there).

If you were to do the same with my dining room table, you would probably think the same. I can't stand having it cluttered, at meal times, nothing but lit candles and meal items.

I spend huge amounts of time making my surroundings look nice. Others spend little if any.

If living like that gives you comfort,,,,,,,,,,

SG

Well, SG, I hope no one reading here looking for inspiration feels like having a kitchen which doesn't look used or a table which doesn't look used is a standard all of us agree upon. Or even like. Organization and home decorating don't have much to do with each other IMHO.

One reason I sought to be organized was that I did NOT want to spend huge amounts of time on my home. Looking nice is pretty subjective. I haven't read anything in this thread where people are OK with filth. Haven't even seen anything I would call filth mentioned. A pile of something is just a pile. It' not evil or makes someone a bad person. Just that most of us know it gets out of control pretty fast.

Gloria

How can you have peace and comfort looking at a mess???

Ah, but perhaps "having peace and comfort" aren't always the goal. People who are comfortable sometimes aren't "creative" or productive, or "whirring away"--which are the characteristics highlighted by the authors.

I have a phenomenally messy office. I would be a bit more productive if it were neater. But I will also say that piles of stuff, etc., can be energizing. and part of why it's messy is that I sometimes see the time spent tidying it up as nonproductive. When it gets so bad that the mess IS anti-productive, then I straighten it up.