Pinktoes, I have been following this thread since it posted and shaking my head in agreement and feeling you pain along the way. It seems that we are talking about the same man. In my house we refer to him as the "house guest". Now I'm going to wonder each time he is away if he is at your house wreaking havoc.

A few years ago I started using the basket system on his vanity. I just throw his stuff in the basket. He had the audacity to chastise the cat for making a mess on his counter top (the cat had a skin condition).

I like the seal analogy. The other day I showed him his place at the breakfast table (glass top) and ask him to look at it as the sun reflected on the mess he left. I said "does that look like a seal has been flopping around". He said yes, what is that. I explained that it is what I clean up every day after he eats his meal! I said think beyond the table. This means that there is food and grease on your forearms and hands consequently you are spreading this is mess to the furniture, walls you brush against, and your clothes.

I got a desk from Freecycle, it's covered with Formica so it's easy to clean---if HE wants to. I put it on the lanai and set up an office for him. He enjoys the view so I hope this will encourage him to stay out there as much as possible.

He says tauntingly "won't you be happy when I retire?". It's not a joke as I am very worried what direction our relationship will take when that time comes. He has no domestic skills or inclination at house matters so keeping him busy around the house or yard will be a challenge.

With all of that said, he is a wonderful person in the really important things in life.

This thread is way too funny, and hits just close enough to home to be a little scary! I think at least three of us are sharing the same husband.

We have a standing joke at our house; how many husbands does it take to change a roll of toilet paper? Nobody knows, it's never been done..............

Barbara

bspofford: Well the t.p. joke is just TOO funny! Just so you guys don't think my DH has absolutely no housekeeping skills, he is religious about replacing the t.p. roll. Do not ask me why. I try not to look a gift horse in the mouth. Somewhere along the way he must have been traumatized because this is close to an obsession. We have dual t.p. holders in both baths, side by side on the walls. And will have in the new house, too.

BTW, I don't think we're all sharing a husband; I think they may be clones, however.

mustangs: I asked DH's favorite aunt once about the retirement thing. Her household felt exactly like Everybody Loves Raymond on TV. So, I asked her "How was it when Uncle Danny retired?" She said, "Don't even ask. But every man needs a dog." She, old school lady, didn't drive. I think the only time she got away from him was when he had to walk the dog. I myself shudder to think. That's why I'm encouraging/providing space (OUT in the backyard and out off the front porch!) for his hobbies and continued little retirement job. Oh, and going into a 30 year mortgage, a choker of one, at age 60 will help insure that he needs to work until--well, until he can't.

And I say that with all kindness because he is one of the most goodhearted, generous, and tender people I've ever known. I knew I had a winner when we were dating and he expressed that I was being "too strict" with my way-spoiled cats. And he'd never been a cat person. He gets up several times a night now when one comes to our closed door and softly meows--wanting a snack or just a pet. I don't even wake up.

You don't ever get everything in one package.

I apologize for drifting OT. Don't want anyone to think I've gone all soft in the head. It goes without saying that these guys have wonderful qualities or we wouldn't be married to them.

Now, back to the original topic. When DH and I made that deal (the 'hah') one, about him cleaning his Office's half bath, I asked him if he had ever actually cleaned a toilet bowl and a toilet. He assured me he had. So, I asked "When?" Because he hasn't in the 20 years I've known him, including when I was in a walker for several months and still cleaned the bathrooms!

His answer? "When it got dirty." Call me skeptical, but dirt is in the eye of the beholder. And when the beholder is a reluctant cleaner--well, I don't know about that. He also volunteered that HIS bath will never get dirty. When they invent that bathroom, I'm remodeling all of mine with the no-dirt ones. So I take it his plan is to never use his bath. I gotta tell ya, if he sits out there for hours on end holding it in, then he's not coming in the Big House and peeing all over the place. We'll be living in a city; there's plenty of public restrooms within 2 or 3 miles.

Too bad he grew up in NYC, where the men never peed out behind the shed. Cause we have enough privacy for that, at least in the winter.

Glad to know my DH isn't the only one who keeps the countertop covered with "stuff." I just use the hall bathroom and let him have the master bath. I went in there the other day and counted 8 knives (he loves 'em), and about that many pens (loves those, too). He dumps his change on the countertop to save for the grandchildren to count and divide when they visit. He has pill bottles, todo lists, sales slips, a couple of electric razors, an electric toothbrush and one of those things that squirts pulses of water on your teeth and gums -- for starters. I got him a drawer orgainzer to put the small stuff in and one of those stainless steel wire stands with a couple of shelves and a sliding basket hoping I'd be able to get to the countertop to clean it occasionally, but he just put more stuff on the shelves. Isn't there a rule that says stuff expands to fill the space available to put in in/on?? Maybe I should sick premier on him. After 49 years, I've given up. He's worth it, though. He's such a treasure in other ways that I won't nag him over something like this. I figure when the dust gets deep enough on the counter that he can't find his knives, he'll figure out something. ;-)

Isn't there a rule that says stuff expands to fill the space available to put in in/on??

Yep--there's a rule like that: "a mess expands to fill all available space" (or as I like to sometimes say it, "If you build it, they will come")

You might be better off sometimes eliinating the places to put stuff; it might prompt him to sort through it more often.

Pinktoes, too bad the top won't come off that toothbrush holder; I was thinking, would it be easier to clean if you could put a terrycloth circle int he bottom to absorb the drippings? Then that could just go in the laundry (thought it might get too gunky)

Yep I guess we have to take the good with the bad. I have to say, my hubby FINALLY after being married 33 years started keeping the shelf neat in our master bath.
sorry about derailing your thread. LOL
cindy

cyandjon: Don't apologize; I thought I was the one who got derailed! Girls just wanna have fun and all that.

talley sue nyc: What I'm using now is just a stainless tumbler. No top. For awhile I put those cotton quilted rounds in it (like you remove makeup with). But they got partially adhered to the bottom and then pulled apart when I tried to remove them. Sorry, I know this sounds gross. You're right; I would be better off with an absorbent fabric.

But now that I have that realization, I also have the new holder on the way. The new holder I ordered doesn't have a top either. Just the four criss-crossed dividers, which create their own little problem of access to the bottom.

You know, it just dawned on me that there's a simple solution to this. If I like the new divided holder (oh, and if DH does, too--I forgot to include him!), then I'll buy another one. Every day I'll change them out and dry off the ends of the tools. Then they'll be easy to clean in the DW. Every day. Every day. Every day for the rest of my life.

Daily drudgery, plus one more little meaningless detail to occupy brain cells that I surely could better use elsewhere. Or, the daily task deferred till it becomes a weekly aggravation. Tough to choose between such attractive choices.

I think if you have alternates, and you normally clean the bathroom once a week, maybe you'd do OK just washing the container once a week. How often do you normally deal w/ the tumbler now? If you put it off for more than a week bcs you've only got one (and cleaning it to put it back into service right away is too daunting), maybe being able to switch to the clean one, and soak the dirty one in the kitchen will make it easier to do once a week, and the stuff inside won't get as thick or dry as hard?

I am envisioning exactly what you need, but of course--hey, you know me--it's custom.

When I'm sick of publishing, I'm going to become a metal worker, a carpenter, a leather worker, and a plastics fabricator.

And I'm going to make custom wallets, custom tote bags, custom bathroom organizers, custom CPAP nightstands, custom kitchen-cabinet organizers.....

talley sue nyc: I do it once a week now. So I'm envisioning just adding it to my daily morning routine so it'll be quicker. Like this: spread paper towel on countertop; brush my teeth with right hand while dumping out DH's tumbler with left onto paper towel. Finish teeth. Wipe bottoms of his tools. Reach down into cabinet for fresh tumbler and replace tools into it. Take dirty tumbler to kitchen; rinse out; put into dishwasher; start coffee." And like that!

I wish you would start that custom business, because I really do think with all these professional organizers to funnel you business, you could make a go of it. As well as, of course, direct marketing. Then there's the Oprah appearance--she just loves stuff like that--and you're off and running!

I never believed in that addage. It is interesting cynandjon that you were raised with a father sharing the responsibilities around the house and you raised your sons to be self sufficient and sharing household responsibilities, yet according to what you have posted here, your husband did not share with household responsibilities and cleaning in your 33 years of marriage. Why did you allow this? Why is your husband different than your father or your sons?

Pinktoes, I do apparently think this is a humor thread!! Isn't it? And waaaaaaa, I sadly can't find the "icky house" thread at all.

On the 'men are pigs' front. Hey, they are. They just are. Even when DH genuinely tackles a cleaning thing, well, truly, between you all and me, he is just kinda terrible at it. Period. And sheesh, sensitive to criticism? Don't get me started. And I know a big part of it is that I am perfectionistic and easily frustrated and critical (menopause, anyone?). I have better things to do than to train him. It is just too hard. And given my hoarding issues, I'm hardly one to cast stones.

And like others, for me the whole deal is more than OK. He is a successful, funny, open, playful, supportive, sexy partner who works like heck in an intense profession. He knows me better than anyone and totally loves me, "gets" me, and thinks I'm beautiful and brilliant (go figure). I cook; he does the dishes, albeit so-so. I control the money and steer the big ship of our lives, he does the social calendar. He didn't even blink when I walked off my secure hospital job to set up an independent practice. A wonderful partner and my best friend.

So he can't clean worth a darn. I'm still keeping him.

Here's the NO icky houses thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: NO icky houses

Here's the original thread that started it all. People actually posting photos of the disarray they lived in. In truth, most of them were in the midst of remodeling or such, which I thought was a misrepresentation. Nevertheless, a rebel group started a "clean people" thread, which is the link in my post just above.

Here is a link that might be useful: icky houses with photos of same

Okay, if you missed it here's part of one of my posts on the "no icky houses" thread. Amazon should be running out of these books by now.

"Cleaning out my bookshelves for a Goodwill run, I ran across a little humor book, Porn For Women. It will become my first coffee table book in the new house. The format is a photo of cute, sweet looking guy on one page and a caption on the opposite page. Umm, sometimes the guys are wearing an athletic undershirt or have their shirt open or something. A few samples:

* Guy cleaning out cat litter pan. Caption: "Who could object to cleaning up after the cutest thing on four legs?"

* Guy dusting on TOP of the kitchen cabinets. Caption: "D---, I always miss this spot."

* Guy scrubbing the toilet bowl. Caption: "I wouldn't dream of letting you do this job."

* Guy folding the laundry, working on a knit camisole. Caption: "This is the way you like the shirts folded, right?"

* Guy folding laundry. Caption: "As soon as I finish the laundry, I'll do the grocery shopping. And I'll take the kids with me so you can relax."

You get the drift. And there are some more personal ones, but nothing obscene. One cute other topic is guy saying, "I know, let's take you shoe shopping!"

Pink
OMG I love the icky thread.
I really do agree the 50's and before state of mind of the ideal marriage was the woman was the boss of the cleaning standards. Even though my dad helped out, it had to be to my mothers standards. I have to give him credit, he did a good job.

The bottom line is we can pick on our hubbies and make fun but at the end of the day we have to look at all they accomplished. A messy hubby or home isnt the end of the world or a reason to throw them away.

I dont know what made my hubby start to keep his side of the MB shelf clean. All I can say is try to elimate all unecessary stuff from the shelf and ask him to rinse and dry his tooth brush after use. Supply paper towels for him to do this.

I guess after giving serious consideration to this matter, what it really reduces to for me is the issue of setting a standard. I cannot fathom why MY standard should be imposed on him. As it stands now, HIS standards have been imposed on,--or, more correctly, consciously accepted by--me.

If there were to be a change, and I would ask for one IF this were a marriage-ending issue for me, then it would be a negotiated one. My standards would not necessarily prevail.

Most of us operate out of self-interest. I certainly do. What I've observed is that all "tasks" do not parse out equally. On some, I get the better deal. On others, he does. Each task does not end up 50-50 and so if you measure a marriage in that way, then neither DH nor I has an "equal" marriage.

However, if you were to look at the overall picture I think you'd find that we both have an equal marriage. That is what I want and that is what I have worked to attain. I believe my husband would say the same for himself.

And, in all fairness, I think he would also say he would prefer it if he had more elaborate meals, prepared totally from scratch, by me. And that he would prefer it if I were more relaxed about entertaining, so he could invite people over more often. Perhaps he posts messages in jest (and in seriousness) on a men's forum about these issues. He does not bring them up with me, but I know what they are. He has decided to accept my standards in these areas; they are not deal-breakers for him. I shine in other areas that compensate for these deficiencies.

To me, that's what an "equal" marriage is about. There is respect for both the assets and the perceived-deficiencies of your mate.

That said, in designing the new house I have created a challenge for myself: I have intentionally designed the master bath so that we will now share a sink (one less sink to clean, since I clean them anyway). SHARE A SINK, she said! Will I survive this test of marriage? Stay tuned!

hey, here's an idea.

Now that you are sharing a sink, maybe you can find a way to negotiate toward shared standards there.

I understand why you wouldn't want to try to completely remake his standards in this area (too much work, frankly). But maybe you can ask him to bend in one way that makes a difference in some way to you.

(washing and drying his toothbrush, maybe?)
(fewer items always out on the sink?)

I'm very lucky--in all these household-neatness-and-cleanliness areas, my DH and I are about the same in terms of messiness, etc. (that is to say, we both leave stuff out and around, LOL!)

pinktoes, you seem very clear on your reasons and explanations for your lifestyle choices. I try to think threads like this are good for clarification, mostly for ourselves. You know what those are for you, which is most important. No justifications necessary! Living with someone successfully requires compromise, which is different for everyone.

I also believe making good design choices for areas that are problems can do a lot to alleviate stress, which you are attempting to do. I have no doubt in my mind that you'll work it out.

T Sue and Claire: good to see you're both still reading here. The divided stainless Forma tumbler I bought was worse than a regular tumbler (design flaws). I so hate bad design. However, what is working well, in the arena of coping rather than changing DH, is just changing out the tumbler each morning after he uses it. One day's accumulation of gunk cleans up in the DW just fine. One problem solved. And getting into a new little routine change for me--such a minor inconvenience in life, really.

Yes, it is interesting how new opportunities arise (referring to the future shared sink). And, while finalizing the very detailed plans for the new bath's storage, DH said part of his messiness there is because of lack of storage. He demonstrated how hard it is to bend to the sink base cabinet and reach back to get his non-daily stuff. I started to jump in and solve that problem right now, raising his stuff some way. The two of you have been especially helpful on this board, with both your ideas and with all the manufactured organizers you've linked to here, and so now I could redesign our existing space better. But DH said let's just live with it and save a few bucks toward the new endeavor.

He's right. No drawers and only one tiny medicine cabinet in that bath right now. In the new house we will each have a bank of 4 drawers in the sink base cabinet, and a medicine cabinet each (so I don't have to look at how he chooses to keep the interior of his). Off on another wall is another storage cabinet for bigger stuff. Money, and careful planning, goes a long way in resolving these issues. (Except for the drippy tumbler! LOL)

And, while finalizing the very detailed plans for the new bath's storage, DH said part of his messiness there is because of lack of storage. He demonstrated how hard it is to bend to the sink base cabinet and reach back to get his non-daily stuff.

Oh, I love it when you can get a conversation like this going!

I take on the main "organizer" role in my family (are you surprised? LOL!), and try so hard to get feedback like this. How great that you can get it. My DD will enter in the conversation w/ me, so that's fun.

it might not fix everything, but it's great to have it.

Also, the drippy tumbler--if you can explain to your DH what a difference it makes if he rinses his toothbrush & razor well, and maybe even dries them, he might find it an easy thing to add to his routine, once he knows. You might get him to start now, as an experiment, bcs if he discovers he can/can't add this to his routine easily, it might affect stuff like, do you line the drawers w/ a container, etc.

One other reason to fiddle a little bit w/ his stuff in the current bathroom is to see if it will make a difference, and to have him give you feedback about whether it's easy to deal w/ stuff behind the doors, etc. (though it sounds like there's very little correlation between what you have now and what you WILL have)

I'll be interested to hear how things work out in the new place.

(and I'm glad to hear the frequent changing means the tumbler washes clean so easily--that was one of my thought, if you remember--(toot, toot--that's my own horn you're hearing) LOL!)

if you're still looking for a tray, this one is white AND steel.

handwash, though.

http://www.cb2.com/family.aspx?c=230&f=4099&viewall=1

I love trays.

I have no use for them, but I love them. I have some I should probably get rid of, but I keep trying ot find way sto actually use them.

i really only like the kinds like this, w/ the straight-up-and-down sides.

I want one like this so bad, but I have nowhere I would ever use it.

This is a great thread.Humorous and informative.

I am so lucky to have a neatnick for a hubby. I NEVER have to pick up after him. He puts the dishes away after I wash them,laundry always in the hamper unless it is too gross and then he puts it in the washer and tells me it needs special attention. This is OK with me because he is clueless about doing laundry.He does the grocery shopping because it is hard for me to see in the store. He will vacuum if I ask him he will scrub the toilet if I ask him and sometimes I do ask. But he HAS to be asked to do the toilet. I honestly think he just does not see it is dirty. I can not imagine that because he can mess it up in a hurry.

For bathroom tools containers I use old Shawnee deer planters. LOL They are pretty and fun. For my counter clutter I use a china covered casserole dish. I use a basket in the cupboard for the shampoo and other things.

Chris

My Biggest gripe is the bar soap in the bathtub. I hate the mess it makes. Even in a soap dish it builds up.

Talley, I suggested rinsing & drying the toothbrush too, it works great for me. No drips left to make a mess.

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Maintaining should be easy without to much struggle. It seems if you have to work at putting stuff away, its easy to throw it to the side when your in a hurry. So I understand your hubbies complaint about not having enough room to put stuff. I'm concerened about that in the new house also. Our current house has very little storage space so Im trying to make sure that doesnt happen again.

cynanjon: I thought DH HAD to have bar soap, but he said he didn't. We use liquid soap now, in pump dispensers, hung in a shower organizer thingie inside the tub area. SO much nicer. When using bar soap I tried everything. The best solution I had was to tuck a Buf Puf (the fat ones) under the bar soap. It is very porous and drains through. But the soap will stick a little, so the Puf gets yucky and I replaced it every couple of months. YMMV.

shades of idaho: Lucky you with a neatnik DH. I dated one of those for 3 years. Total bliss in the tidy area (uh, and in some other areas, too, but this is not the place for that discussion). I would've married him just for that trait, had it not been for his tendency toward depression and his little drinking habit. Too bad!

talley sue: DH has been quite interested and helpful in planning the new master bath. Discussing where he will store what; how far away can this storage space be from the sink; how deep should this drawer be, that cabinet be.

And I'm a tray convert. (BTW, I bookmarked that site. How neat!) I never knew I needed them till I had them. WARNING: If you acquire trays, stuff will come to fill them.

Here's what I'm currently doing with trays. Part of these needs will go away after we move, but the trays will get hung inside closets on the walls for future needs:

Kitchen: Atop the microwave is a huge tray with all my ripening fruit. DH is half-Italian, makes his own sauce; I have lots of tomatoes ripening to perfection for that.

3 different kinds of cat food (some is rx from vet) require 3 different stainless canisters. They get corraled in a tray (trays always need short sides.) As do their various bowls.

Great Room, a/k/a architectural drafting space for now: Big plastic tray from Crate and Barrel holds all the drafting supplies, with some drawer dividers set inside it to corral tools. Lightweight and easy to move to another room to tidy up. I kept reading about "project baskets/trays" and had no idea what that was till I started the new house planning. Now I know.

Master Bath (the one with no drawers!): Countertop has all my daily stuff in a hammered brass tray. Sides higher than 1" prevent fallout/tipovers. DH's counter is too narrow for a rectangular tray, so it has the uncouth hospital emesis basin (with the perfect shape echoing the sink's curve so it will fit between sink and wall). It corrals all his stuff, including the formerly-nasty tumbler.

Office: Legal-size wooden letter tray holds all mail, with a small sorter inside the tray. Plus, for now, hot files of work in progress for new house.

Closets: Trays corral supplies sorted into various categories. Gives a firm surface on my ventilated shelving and keeps things tidier. Easy to pull out a first-aid tray, etc., if needed for use.

I just don't know how I could live a meaningful and productive life without a house full of trays!!

Pinktoes,
"And I'm a tray convert. (BTW, I bookmarked that site. How neat!) I never knew I needed them till I had them. WARNING: If you acquire trays, stuff will come to fill them.

Oh So TRUE!!!! Hehehehe I have also found this out. I also bookmarked the site.

I love trays and use then in my craft storage areas. I bought a stack of tiny useless kitty litter pans at half price at the dollar store and use them as storage drawers on shelves for my glass. I also use trays in the kitchen and laundry room.

As far as my hubby being neatnick. He just is that way I had nothing to do with it. He is not insane with it though ,driving me crazy like a Felix Unger kind of neatnick. If it comes to having fun dust can wait.

Chris

Pink
I use liquid soap in my upstairs shower. I find it to be much neater. Hubby likes bar soap. I gave him a disposable container that I can replace if it gets to the point it cant be cleaned.
cindy

On the subject of liquid soap, I have had one of these dispensers in each shower for at least ten years and find them to be very convenient and a way to keep bottles to a minimum. I keep shampoo, conditioner, soap, dandruff shampoo in the four chamber model.

Here is a link that might be useful: Shower Dispenser

I have one tiny bathroom, and it has a tiny sink (day-care sink, actually). DS was always knocking the soap dispenser on the floor.

SO I got a SINGLE of those shower dispensers ("The Dispenser") and mounted it on the wall above the sink. (I think that even if I'd had a mirror that went all the way down, I'd have mounted it.)

It made a HUGE difference--the soap stays in place.

As for size, it looks just right.

I sometimes think of mounting one in the big bathroom, just to make more room for setting the toothbrush down temporarily.

I have a really cool bamboo basket I found at TJ Maxx, I use on the side of my hubby's sink to put his shave gel, razor, colonge, etc in. It's easy to just pick up the basket and wipe the counter. He's not a neat-nik but he always puts his stuff in the basket.

Talley Sue, I followed your postings on your closet re-do and I thought you did a fantastic job. It's so hard to keep young ones organized and they are lucky to have a mom that cares and helps them. I was impressed with your pictures and your organization skills. You rock! :-)

Just a comment here. When I turned 12 my mother insisted that I no longer share a BR with my older brother. He slept on the sleeper sofa in the living room till he moved out on his own. No big deal was made of it; mom just said at the time that he wanted his own space. He tidied it up every morning and I had forgotten that he slept there till long after we were grown and he mentioned it.

I know that some families have feelings about opposite-sex sibs sharing rooms once they enter their teens, and my mom did. She used the only solution available to her. It worked fine.

As to younger kids, in a lot of subcultures and families it is PREFERRED that they share rooms. Mormons commonly have "boys" rooms and "girls" rooms. DH's stepsisters grew up sleeping in the same bed and, in their late 30s, while visiting us, they refused to "dirty" two guest bedrooms. They shared one bed here.

We're all very different. Many arrangements can work. I do know that, in working with kids living in public housing projects, many children of all genders and ages shared a BR. There was a high frequency of incest among those sibs. But that's not necessarily due to sharing a BR, which is what I think we all (including my mom) get queasy about. It could well have simply been a difference in subcultural norms. There are, after all, cultures where incest is not the taboo it is here. I think it is this taboo that might be underlying some of the discomfort here about the shared BR--rather than the fear of mistreating an otherwised privileged American child by giving them less space for their excessive acquisitions than they might prefer.

OTOH, if a teenage girl gets personally uncomfortable sharing a bedroom with a brother, then I would find a way to honor her discomfort and provide for separate sleeping quarters. Teenagers are pretty private and one never knows what's actually going on with them. So, it's probably a good idea to be sensitive to her feelings here. Otherwise, let's not create a problem where none exists except in our own minds.

Chris: I'm with you. I wanted storage space in vanity drawers much more than I wanted another sink to clean. We don't get dressed at the same time either. The only thing that might bother me is having to use his messy sink before I clean it up. You know, hi-ho, off to brush my teeth. Egads! Toothpaste globs, hair, whisker shavings in the sink. Do I stop, and clean it first, then brush my teeth? Or, do I train myself to not see it and brush teeth first, then clean it? Oh, the minutiae of life. This will be new for me. Right now I just turn my head away from his sink while I use mine. Then when I get to it, I clean his.

My master bathroom has a counter with 2 sinks. Both DH and I use only 1 of the sinks since I found it easier to clean up one than two all the time. I'd rather have more counter space than an extra sink. But we don't need to use the sink at the same time each morning, either.

I thinks it's up to Talley Sue to figure out what's best for her family. From reading her posts for years, I know that she would always have her kids best interests at heart but it really is none of our business to judge her or anyone else on this forum.

My boys shared a room until they moved out. BTW I raised 3 boys in a house that is about 1100 Sq Ft. Not everyone lives in a huge house.
Those are good points about the second sink. Now Im going to give it some thought as to whether I really want one.
Does this forum have an ignore poster button?

cynandjon: I was thinking about that. I grew up in a 950 sq. ft. house; family of four. Just heard Clark Howard say this week that in the past generation the average price of a house has doubled. But so has its size!

What would you like about a second sink?

Greetings, all. This is Talley Sue's DH posting under her log-on.

A few things you should know about our apartment, just to help sharpen your assessments: it is a classic "pre-war" apartment building. It is actually roomier than your average NYC apartment, with very little wasted space and three closets. The third closet, which my wife cleaned out, used to house a murphy bed long since removed. That opens up a storage space roughly 10 feet long, nine feet high and about 3.5 feet wide. In Manhattan, this would qualify as a studio apartment (just kidding).

Storage space is further augmented by a storage bin in the basement measuring nine feet high, about 10 feet long and 4-5 feet wide, fully stuffed. Children's stuff can fit into the big closet in our kids's room because our storage bin can take other things, like christmas decorations, fans, air conditioning units, beach toys, folding tables and chairs, and all the other stuff we don't need all the time.

We try to be aggressive about keeping down the amount of stuff that we have. When everything is put in its place, we have a lot of space. When it's not, we still have a lot of space but have to step over a lot of stuff. Our preference is to keep the place neat, but children are adorable agents of chaos who must be prompted to keep their spaces neat. They are pretty good natured about clean-up once you force the issue five or six times.

Also, for further reference, yes, Queens is in NYC. So is Manhattan. Typically you can get an 800-square foot apartment in Manhattan for approximately $1.3 million. That is an average price that may vary by a few hundred thousand, depending where in Manhattan you go. In our neighborhood of Jackson Heights, a two-bedroom averaging about 1,000 square feet will sell for anywhere from $200,000 to $450,000, again, depending where in the neighborhood you go. If you leave the landmark district, you can get cheaper space with one bathroom for a lot less than the going rate on our block.

Talley sue,Your absolutely right I think its important to remember that there are people with feelings on the other end of the thread. Noone can judge anyone without walking in their shoes.

Pink
I was considering giving hubby his own sink in the MB. He has gotten better about cleaning up after himself but sometimes Im impatient about waiting my turn for the sink if he gets there first. LOL Maybe its not necessary, Im seeing it from a different perspective since reading this thread.
Something for me to consider.

Hi, ya'll from Atlanta, GA. My DH grew up in Flushing, Queens in a 3 story Brownstone with a double lot! Three apartments there: grandparents; his nuclear family; and his aunt & uncle's. He loved having the freedom to choose where he was going to eat dinner depending on which menu he liked best, running up and downstairs. He moved to Long Island around 1970 during college, then in '76 on to Austin, TX. Later to Atlanta, GA where he was SO fortunate as to meet up with a southern belle (that be me).

Fond memories and he loved growing up there. Went to Tech High. They were pretty short of both bathrooms and storage, but long on love!

My daughter lives in NYC and just moved from Manhattan to Brooklyn. She is renting and for a small 2 bedroom, the going rate is in the $2500.00/month range. She's lucky to have a roommate who is also a very good friend.

Talley Sue, you are a very important part of this forum and I wouldn't want anyone to make you feel "unwelcome", especially on your turf. I do feel better now that you and your DH have chimed in so eloquently. For me, the subject is now closed.

Am I gonna lose everybody here if I say one teensy thing about the "olden days"? I spent summers with my grandparents, who lived in an old Victorian within the Atlanta city limits. At that time you were not required to install indoor plumbing or hot water. They had neither. My happiest days were those times with them in the old house. Using a chamber pot, which g'ma emptied outside in the fallen-down outhouse. Running the one gas heater in the house--in the Dining Room, to heat it up for bathing. Bathing behind the sheets hung off a clothesline there (a "shower curtain" for privacy).

Grandma heated enough water on the stove for those galvanized wash tubs we bathed in. (Cold water in the house only. The kitchen was a later add-on. Originally kitchens were too much of a fire hazard to attach to the house.)

Bedrooms had fireplaces (talk about a fire hazard!) no longer in use (this was the 50s). We slept under loads of g'ma's handmade quilts. In between her chores she taught me to run the treadle sewing machine, make doll clothes, and hand embroider. Ooo--and there was NO TV.

And NO CLOSETS! Houses didn't have 'em. Would such deprivation get you locked up today? LOL.

It was not tobacco road. Actually, the house was more interesting and fun than our own family's standardized post WWII tract house. The loving environment and adventures with them, learning about g'pa's business (next door)--it was as much a broadening experience and part of my education as the excessive years I later spent in school.

I think it helps to study architectural history, social history, anthropology, and other areas of inquiry into human behavior. It broadens your notions about what we take as "the way things must be done" now. Just look outside our own country, today. My gosh, we get full of ourselves!

Personally, I'm not much interested in hearing a recitation of how I or anyone else "should" behave. Or of what is "proper". Aside from boring me, I haven't found that approach particularly instructive, nor does it lead to creative problem-solving. That's where this old lady is coming from.

PINK
LOL Sounds like you had fun and had a wonderful GM. I think today in the modern world we take a lot for granted of what should be. It never ceases to amaze me how our lives vary from each other(let alone in other parts of the world). Its amazing what each family endures through out a life time is so different from others. Even in my own circle of friends and aquaintances there is a vast difference in life style and expections depending on income.
I think your a very intelligent/fun person and I enjoy reading what you post.
Without a sense of humor, and the ablilty to laugh at ourselves & with others life is sad,dull & empty.

Very Well Said Tally Sue. And Welcome DH of Tally Sue.

We are 50 miles from town where we can shop so it is 100 miles round trip. Actually a little over but 100 is close enough.

I also lived in NY when I was a kid. We lived in the Brooklyn Naval Yard and as a child I played on the Saratoga Aircraft carrier when it was I think being built. About 1954-1956. Correct me if I am wrong on that I know it was the Saratoga. Maybe it was in Dry Dick being repaired.

We lived in a converted hospital on the third floor.Address R4C. I always thought it was a sort of weird house but did not find out until years later it had been a hospital conversion. We had a solarium and I used to watch Micky Mouse on the TV out there and thought it was all great fun even if our house was laid out like freight train room running into room long and narrow hall down the center. Looking back the master bedroom living room and dinning room must have been wards and the other two bedrooms private rooms and the front hall the nurses station. So funny now I understand what the place really was I can see it perfectly in my minds eye. We had one HUGE bathroom , One sink, Heheheh with weird hand bars which I understand now but made good towel hangers then. LOL

Not sure why I even mention all of this. Just this thread took me down memory lane.Also lived in West Hempstead.(SP?)

Chris

This has nothing to do with some of the evolutionary branches of the thread, but back when we were talking about cleaning the stuff out of the bottom of the toothbrish glasses etc: drop in a denture tablet or two-- cleans almost any crud off. Drop your rings in there while you;re at it-- they are great for cleaninfgjewelry as well. I always have some on hand b/c they are so darned handy. I have been using them for years and have no dentures....

skatiero: Oooo. Thanks, a bunch! I've heard that mentioned before; I forget for what. Putting them on this week's grocery list.

FWIW, I love denture brushes, also; use them everywhere for things that need a sturdier scrubbing than a toothbrush gives, plus the pointy end reaches into crevices well.

Ohhh good idea, tooth brushes seem to wear out quickly!

I hadn't ever read this thread because I knew that I couldn't contribute to it and I don't have to worry about my DH's countertop mess in the bathroom because our bathroom is sooooo small that we don't even have a bathroom countertop LOL (PLEASE don't open the med cabinet or vanity door or cupboard doors over the toilet because that is where EVERYTHING is shoved)

I just wanted to let most of you ladies (and Talley Sue's DH) that I just love and respect everything that you post. The majority of it is posted with humor and love that shows what type of person you are... the type I would love to have as friends on the internet and in REAL LIFE! I wouldn't ever knowingly judge another person and wouldn't want anyone to judge me!!

That said-- I hope I am not in too much trouble with the "household police" for "not providing proper living space", since I still have a storage or closet problem even though we have a 4500 sq ft house (that includes the scary basement)...5 bedrooms, 3 closets, 2 tiny bathrooms with no storage but HUGE rooms. House built in late 1800s, what more can I say!

iasheff
You sound like someone I would also choose as a friend. KUDOS to your post.

I guess its time to stand up to the person in my house who leaves the mess and tell them that if it isn't clean then I will throw it out, or kick myself out, to teach ME a lesson. LOL :)

Yes its me (a woman) who leaves the stuff out on our bathroom counter all the time. I only pick it up when it gets cleaned (by my hubby or me) 1 time a week, it or if there is company ( though sometimes I just leave the door shut) and it is our masterbath. I do have one of those cleaning supply carrier things with a handle that I put all my stuff in ( dryer, brushes,makeup etc..) that way when I do put it in the cupboard Its quick. but I still leave that out all the time and it bugs my hubby.
I do have a double sink and I wish I just had one sink with more coutertop space.. I am thinking of when I get a new coutertop getting rid of one of the sinks.

Because of our recent addition we did a little switcheroo with bathrooms at our house. I get the new master bathroom, dh gets old master bathroom and dd gets the same old bathroom minus darlin' daddy. I'm not sure how I always get my own bathroom but, I'm not complaining!

It's been interesting to see how dh handles the new situation. There is a very long vanity. It's a double vanity with only one cut out. There are, however, no drawers. His stuff is everywhere. He had always complained that MY stuff was always out. lol He never realized, because he never used this bathroom, that there was no convienient place to put everything.
In many areas he is a setter. He sets things here and he sets things there so he can easily find them. I'm a puter. I put things away right behind him normally. It drives him nuts but having everything out drives me nuts too. :~) Our styles are completely opposite. I suppose I could find some kind of under drawer thing that could provide drawers in that bathroom but we haven't quite gotten around to that yet. We need other things like, finished walls in other places first.
My new bathroom has lots of storage and everything is put away all the time. It's wonderful! The old masterbath is as it always was with different stuff; cluttered and disorganized.

BTW I *think* we have "proper living quarters" if everyone has their own bathroom and closet. Only 2,200 sf but there are only three of us skin folk, and the two fur folk.