Hi Annellis,

Your house sounds like mine - 4 businesses, 2 kids (don't homeschool, though) sports stuff, college info that arrives daily now, and everyday stuff that we can't/don't get rid of for some reason or another. We have only a dirt basement, no garage and no attic, but a large, unfinished, unheated room under the eaves that I can store stuff in.

I wouldn't compare the house you grew up in to your current house if you run multiple businesses out of your home. There is so much "stuff" associated with business, and "stuff" for each business that has to be kept separate.

We have equipment for use outdoors, a whole ton of stuff for making wreaths and selling Christmas trees that only gets used one month a year and then has to be stored away. We have a total of 13 file drawers in our office with another 8 -10 stored at a property we own off site (can't remember if they are 4 or 5 drawers each). DDs ski, so we also have a ski tuning table taking up one wall of the office (no where else to put it). Then, there is the computer, 2 printers, typewriter (yes, I need it) and other assorted electronic stuff. DH has a desk in here, but it is piled high with papers and he uses the dining room table as his desk (more papers in there). My DH sounds like yours.

So, obviously, our house is not house beautiful. But what I have found that DOES work for me when it gets out of control is to figure out what is getting dumped where. Then figure out WHY (sounds like you have done that). Then, if it looks like that is the way it will be, I figure out a way to store whatever in that spot or to make it easier to store it somewhere else. For instance, the only extra storage we have is that unheated room. We have rental apartments and keep extra paint and joint compound, etc around because we are always fixing/painting something. So I have to store it in the office (again - nowhere else to store it) So I got a set of shelves to store all that on and I am no longer tripping over it. When we first moved here, DH wanted his desk set up in here and a bookcase he had with law books on it. Then he proceeded to work in the dining room and have papers everywhere in there. So I finally stored the unused books away, moved the bookcase into the dining room and he can store the papers in there. I could cover up the bookcase with curtains or doors if I wanted, but I don't. Just figure out what you need to store where, and make it happen. If you don't use the desk in the kitchen, can you take it out and put in a cabinet for storing stuff? Or find some way of making this into storage space?

I have also tried over the years to get DH to be realistic about what we have room to save. I now try to get rid of things that I know we will never use again, even if they are still useful. He has actually gotten better about this and agrees to get rid of some things without much argument now. We will be moving next year and I am looking forward to really going through everything - that just doesn't seem to be something I am able to do while living here.

What I also tend to do (for the last few years) is to just gather everyone's stuff and dump it in "their" spaces. That means the kids' stuff gets dumped in their rooms, and DH stuff gets put in a pile on his shelf. If I had your situation, from the sounds of it, I would just put his pile on the kitchen island into his office. While the kids were young, I would never clean up their stuff, then I would be mad that it sat there all day while they were at school. Now I don't have to look at it, and I am MUCH calmer. So I don't mind as much, and they can deal with it as they will.

Sorry - this got kind of wordy. I am actually looking forward to hearing other posts because this is a big struggle at our house as well. Good luck

Silly little comment here, but it is about respecting another language - the word is 'shlepped', not shlupped' :-).

well, actually, the preferred spelling is "schlepped"

And I don't think there's any disrespect involved when someone doesn't know the actual spelling. There's no anti-Semitic discrimination going on.

I'm in a sort of YIKES!! mode right now. I feel like the proverbial ostrich (as opposed to the real sort) regarding all the stuff in my home, and it's time to get my head OUT of the sand and deal with it.

Stuff gets set on the DR table, as a sort of family "in" box--and then just moved off to some other place.

NOBODY ELSE IN MY ENTIRE FAMILY WILL PUT ANYTHING AWAY! Either they don't know where it goes, or they (meaning Dad) don't know where it goes but don't make anyone ELSE put it away (like the kids' clothes, which they *know* where it goes, it's just that Dad moves it instead of having them put it AWAY!)

Useless desk: can you put shelves on it? Just stop thinking of it as a desk, and think of it as counter w/ hutch, or something. Buy extra cabinets and stack them right on top of the counterspace, and then put the rechargeables inside one of the doors.

Or make it the STORAGE SPACE (not work space) for the homeschooling stuff. Behind doors.

Good infrastructure in your office--build UP UP UP. Think shelving to over your head, not just head height.

You only *think* you added lighting. It's obviously not good enough, so don't stop now! Even if you give up and add bare flourescent bulbs, get that room FUNCTIONAL.

The other thing I'm wondering is if you are storing stuff in the right room. Do you store the homeschooling stuff near where you hold classes? You should. Then putting it away will go quickly and be very logical.

Also, consider having "current project" bins: Maybe you give up and craft at the island; but have a Rubbermaid bin or tote into which you scoop EVERYTHING for the pinewood derby project until the next time you get it out. (Set that tote on the shelves or in the cabinets that you have plonked directly on top of the desk.)

And frankly, I'll tell you: less stuff. Find a way.

Another thought: sorting mail for the businesses doesn't count as household organizing. Don't mentally "chart it to that account." Maybe that'll make you feel better.

(lord knows, I'm trying to!)

Annellis, I completely agree with you about the ''kitchen desk''. Fortunately I don't have to deal with one of those, but I'm wondering...could you re-purpose the one in your kitchen? They tend to be lower than kitchen counters and usually easier to work at if you're chopping or rolling things out. Could you top it with a wooden board or piece of marble and use it as a baking center? (Drawers could house cookie cutters, rolling pins, extracts, etc.) If it's something you need to use consistently like a cutting board with a knife block close at hand, it makes it harder to put unrelated stuff there. Try to utilize it as a viable part of your kitchen.

It sounds like your storage closet would be handy to park the stuff needing charged. It doesn't cost much to have an electrical outlet installed inside a closet to make that easier. You obviously need more task lighting for your work and office spaces, and probably better basic storage to make you want to go in there to use it.

I can't pretend to know what your real needs are, but I find when something isn't working for me, I start there. I list what isn't working and why. (You've done that here.) Then I make a list of ''possibilities'' and try to be realistic about the easiest way to get where I need to go. Talley Sue likes to talk about infrastructure, which it sounds like you could use a little more of. The most challenging thing to figure out is how to make it Easy and Attractive for everyone to use. It helped when my office became less of a hole in the wall and one of the rooms in my home. I spent some time on Beautification - picking wall color, art work and storage furniture, and made certain that anything that lived in there was necessary and important to keep. (I also realized I was keeping a lot of stuff I didn't really need to.) I recently did that as well with the garage, and although things do get ''piled'' on occasion, it's easily cleaned up.

I know I get frustrated sometimes with my husband's piles, but we actually have a place now for everything to live, so it can be picked up without too much venting on my part! Good luck to you...

Just chiming in to say, yes, I live at that house, too.

Clair de luna and Talley Sue I love the desk ideas. I'd never have thought of those. I've given in to it just thinking it doesn't work as is and it's a good place for junk. Great ideas. I'll have to brainstorm those two; shelving or bake or? center. Oh my then what do I do w/all the mail if it's a bake center? ..okay I'll...brainstorm. If I did the bake center I would like a nice mail cabinet/dresser/sideboard for mail outside my kitchen just for that. I have a spot. Otherwise if I did the shelving that could be the hub for mail, cookbooks, etc. I kind of like keeping my kitchen area mail free though. mmmmm. See? I KNEW you ladies would come up with something I never thought of.

The lighting is a trick. We're in a manuf home and even though we got 200 amp power, we're out ... we have a garage/workshop and 2 offices in the garage and we're basically out of power. Adding outlets would mean tearing out the belly. So...that probably won't happen, but I love the idea of the flourescent bulbs. I could put more of a worklight in that room. That I didn't think of.

Homeschool stuff is where is should be and is where it's used. That is a good thing. Sometimes i just get tired of picking up after everyone then Daddy comes home and bam! It's like I did nothing. It's a neverending battle that my parents never seem to have had.

Here Ye, Here Ye...
Ladies..... The scoop on schlupping vs schlepping... Haven't you ever seen the series of "Baby Songs Silly Songs? One of those 3 sets of videos has a little girl by the name of Amanda Schlup and she never picks her toys up...so goes the lyrics in the rhyming song. The house is covered in toys, parents and Amanda are tripping on them, the dresser drawers are open and clothing is hanging out and the closets come tumbling down when she opens the door. So...that's where I get "schlup" and not "schlep" and I call my dd "Amanda Schlup!

I think most desks don't have enough elbow room to work as bake centers. Literally, elbow room (or knuckle room, when you need to roll past the edge of the dough).

And those desks are often just a little too far away from the actual work area. On purpose.

Seriously consider stick fluorescent ceiling lights in that room--they'll spread MORE light out across the entire room--fewer shadows, etc.

I love the story of Amanda Schlup!

(I had meant to point out that I thought "schlup" was onomatopoeic. isn't that the noise stuff, especially paper, makes when you sort of sling it over somewhere and let it fall?)

Oh my gosh Talley sue....you must use words I've heard of ...... ROFLOL!!!!!! Good thing my dictionary is close at hand!

I'll fess up. I had to look up the spelling.

I would have gone w/ "onomotopeic," which is wrong.

As far as ''baking center'' goes, a desk would make a great place for a heavy stand mixer. There's enough room to use it as a working counter (think eggs, extracts, flour and sugar, while the lower placement of the mixer makes it easier to look into.

Depending on the proximity to other things (like water) in your kitchen, a desk would also make an excellent:

Coffee or Tea Bar (Include an Electric Kettle)
Breakfast Bar (Toaster or toaster oven, fruit, breadbox, flatware in drawers)
Chopping or prep area
Place for a bread maker or food processor
Cookbook storage or menu planning

If it's out of the main kitchen area, it's easier to keep out of the cook's way to make your own coffee or pour cereal. The trick is to keep it kitchen-related.

Take your mail immediately to your home office space, where there's a trashcan, letter opener and paper shredder. Hopefully, all your other home filing is there as well, and you can update your calendar and store your bills until you pay them, at the same time.

As far as ''baking center'' goes, a desk would make a great place for a heavy stand mixer. There's enough room to use it as a working counter (think eggs, extracts, flour and sugar, while the lower placement of the mixer makes it easier to look into.

Depending on the proximity to other things (like water) in your kitchen, a desk would also make an excellent:

Coffee or Tea Bar (Include an Electric Kettle)
Breakfast Bar (Toaster or toaster oven, fruit, breadbox, flatware in drawers)
Chopping or prep area
Place for a bread maker or food processor
Cookbook storage or menu planning

If it's out of the main kitchen area, it's easier to keep out of the cook's way to make your own coffee or pour cereal. The trick is to keep it kitchen-related.

Take your mail immediately to your home office space, where there's a trashcan, letter opener and paper shredder. Hopefully, all your other home filing is there as well, and you can update your calendar and store your bills until you pay them, at the same time.

I was thinking too Claire de luna, what a great "bar" area! Coffee, goblets, glasses if I could only sneak a little fridge in that chair spot! How cool is that?

But I agree it would be good to keep it all kitchen related cookbooks, mixer, bread machine. Right around the corner I have a bare wall that may be the place for mail and homeschool books. I just need one of those secretaries....something for books and some covered storage, pencil drawer and a surface. Keeping it all kitchen related would free up some of my counter space as well.

P.S. Talley Sue...I wouldn't have know it if you did spell it wrong!!!!!

ok, this is off topic, I just feel a little smug here, as onomatopoeic is actually a greek word and I know what it means without looking it up... only we say it: onomatopoiitiko.

Maria

Maria--are you a word greek?

(get it? word geek? word greek?)

Claire wrote: "The trick is to keep it kitchen-related."

See, I don't actually agree with this.

Just because that area is in the kitchen, doesn't mean somehow you *HAVE* to keep it kitchen related. That's tyranny by architecture, or something. It needs to serve your life. If what you need is a place to put your scrapbooking, put it there.

And just because it would make a good coffee bar, doesn't mean AnnEllis (using her as an example; don't know if it's true) *needs* a coffee bar, or could even USE one.

The buffet may be in the dining room, but it might be the perfect place to store your sewing supplies (bcs you sew at the DR table, perhaps), or even the spare shoes (bcs the front door is by the DR).

Look at how your LIFE functions, and make the spaces work for how you live, not for some generic formula created by an interior designer or architect.

Talley Sue,

I must admit I didn't get it at first glance... I'm not a word geek, although words ARE important to me, I am plain Greek - but you know that!

Maria

For the useless desk area - could that become the charging station for everything that needs to be charged? Plug in a power strip and all the cell phones, pdas etc. have a designated place. You can even convert a box to hide all the cords and the power strip. I included directions for one in the link below, but if you search I think there are probably several sets of directions out there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cord & Charger Organizer

I was responding to the idea that stuff gets cluttered in the kitchen that could probably live in other areas. Most kitchens (unless you're blessed with a huge space) could usually benefit from another counter, which a ''desk'' could fill nicely, as there are so many tasks that take place in the kitchen. If the clutter/stuff is an issue, it's just another option. Obviously, you have to make the space fit your needs.

It's been my experience that it's easier to relay the purpose of the room to other members of the family (and keep the clutter/stuff in check for the household organizer) if the room doesn't suffer from multiple personalities.

I posted pictures (I hope) on the Home Decorating forum if you'd like to go over and see for yourself the disaster area!

Everyone has given you good ideas. I looked at your pictures and the only suggestion that I think will help is to organize the books on the bookshelf. If you don't want to organize by subject now, I think you'll feel better and less disorganized if the books are straightened and just look presentable.

That's funny marie26. They're in dissarray because I just finished adding them to my Readerware library system on my computer. LOL! Yep....gotta do that!!!

I had no idea you were organizing them. LOL And I know how messy everything looks when I start on one of my organizing ventures.

I think Clair de luna's ideas are great. Right now I have a fairly new kitchen, with a small desk area (hidden from view from the dining room, thank goodness). I'm using it as my phone center, with phone books tucked below and my daily planner right next to the phone. It's perfect for now, but some day when I get bored with it,I may move the phone into the dr, and turn the desk into a coffee bar. Thanks for the ideas!

Just out of curiosity, why don't you like the desk in the kitchen? I have never had one, but I am designing a new house we will build next year, and that is one thing I want in there. What I find in my office now is that "my" desk becomes the computer desk, which is where everyone hangs out. So I end up with no desk at all, and end up on the dining room table. I am in the kitchen a lot, and it seems like that would be a place I could do some work while waiting for something on the stove, or whatever. Just wondering as I'm still planning the new place.

RJVT:
I don't like it because 1)too small. Can't fit a full fleged billing center complete w/printer and computer. 2) not enough outlets and they're all in the wrong place. It's hard for us to relocate and add outlets...we're in a MF home. 3)location is right where everyone can see and it tends to be a dumping ground. Constantly a disaster, because we don't know what to use it for. 4)horrible lighting and not enough outlets to put computer AND lighting AND phone. But we are going to dump our hard line phone anyway.

I had a computer there once and yes, it's handy, but it's not a workable space. It took up the entire space. It wasn't deep enough either. A hutch attached would work really well, but it still can't house a printer. A larger desk would be optimal. It just misses all the NEEDFUL things. If we have a computer and printer there, we're out of outlets. Our mail would also get mixed with other things to tend with that need attention, due to space issues. Sometimes we just need to clear off and bring back out after eating and there's not enough room w/a computer there.

I can't make it "useful" bigger because the wall ends. It's just funky. It would be perfect if it was 1960 and we still wrote letters. It's basically a letter desk.

I wouldn't mind having a little tv there either. I can never watch the news while cooking, because none of our tv's are able to face the kitchen. But then it would still be a dumping ground! At least w/a hutch and a larger desk everything would have a place.

I'm still up in the air on what to do with it....I doubt my dd will use it as a desk as she's one to have to be central. I know she'd hate to be facing the wall.

I would put a desk in the kitchen. Just make sure it's one that fits your needa.

Put a hutch on the top. one w/ room for a TV there.

Every single kitchen desk I've ever seen looks way too small to me. I wouldn't necessarily want a computer there (since I don't keep recipes on a computer), but it looks too small to have 2 pieces of paper and 2 cookbooks, plus my elbows.

I know if I were building a house, I wouldn't bother w/ a desk. I don't use one THAT often; I can do my menu planning, etc., at the eating table.

I'm not really in love w/ creating a permanent place for short-lived jobs. I plan big menus maybe once every 3 months; I pay bills twice a month. Why have an entire desk for that? I *do* like having a computer area, but honestly, I don't do paperwork stuff while I'm at the computer. I do paper *handling,* but not paper *work*.

I might have storage there--cookbooks, maybe some filing, maybe even a bill-paying box that I can pick up and carry the 4 steps to the DR table, and then put away.

TS - that's why I really WANT a desk. I originally had it in the office, but that became DH's desk. I need a place to do paperwork. I don't have room at the computer desk, and in the new house, I want DH using the office for his paperwork and meeting clients (which would mean I can't work in there when he has clients, so I want to have a desk somewhere else). I want a desk where I can keep MY STUFF because here the whole family uses the dining room table as a desk and there is paper everywhere and my stuff gets mixed all up in it.

We will also be using this new house as a B&B for at least some of the time, so I want NO PAPERS sitting around the house, and I am trying to plan it so that everyone's paperwork has a logical place to be put away.

But I will make sure it is big enough to work at. Thanks for the tips!

I can so relate to this. Especially that no one else in the house ever puts anything away! Geesh. I get so tired of picking up stuff! My DH will rearrange and put things at an artisic angle, really! That is not putting away!!!

Our office/sewing room, junk room, is my pain in the side. We have decided that to do it right, we need to take everything out. Furniture, storage, paper everything. I need a big trash can and lots of time. What is that!?

So now I will try to focus on getting this organized. Find the right storage solutions, so that when we are ready to purge and organize we have everything we need.

Need a new functional desk, one we have now has no drawers, been using rolly carts.

I have things I stockpile too, school supplies, fabric, some health and beauty products have worked there way into my closet storage.

I try to be organized, but there is just too much STUFF!!!

Ok, deep breath, count to 10. Throw 10 things away, you will fell better, you will feel better.

Laura

My DH will rearrange and put things at an artisic angle, really! That is not putting away!!!

that sounds like a guy who doesn't know where it goes.

My DH is like that--his idea of "clearing off the table" is to move stuff off to the corner of the room. And since whatever's in the corner gets ignored (hey, I think of the table as my inbox), the piles add up, and i can't find anything.

I've been sort of screaming (ok, ok, not really screaming, but truly sort of hysterically raising my voice) that people (read: he) should put things "all the way away" instead of just MOVING THEM!! And that if he doesn't know where it goes, you can bet the kids do.

I've also tried to make it clearer where stuff goes, so he *can* put it away. But then, he needs to PAY ATTENTION and BOTHER TO REMEMBER IT.

Can you tell, I'm having some equilibrium problems?

Lauraella: Get a *really, really, really good* FILING CABINET. One w/ full-extension drawers. Don't spend too little (here's a guide: if you were buying a two-drawer one, don't spend less than $125). Go to a true office-supply store (not Staples; the ones they have on display are too flimsy); it will have some quality "low-end" ones that should cost around $150. They'll be sturdy, and the drawers will pull out all the way.

Or go to a liquidation place if there is one where you live. I got a "professional" 5-drawer filing cabinet there at a reasonable price because there is a small dent on one side that has always faced the wall (at least until this house).

That must be a guy thing. Just shifting stuff somewhere else. I gave my dh an entire armoire because I couldn't stand the mess anymore. I figured I could close it off and be free. I can't even begin to tell you what is in that armoire, tools, bits, paperwork he can't find, brushes for ???, It is full! Then he starts piling on top. I put a stop to that! Then he complains that he only has one room! (And a 30 x 36 garage and 2 sheds) You would all die if I posted a picture of that room. I close it for fear of what would run out! The thing is, he's good with clothes and bathroom. Thank goodness!

I have to say in response to Talley Sue's..."get a good one". Had I done this from the beginning...buying what I really wanted instead of going on the cheap, I would have saved so much money!!! The item either didn't work as planned or fell apart...just wasn't quite up to par.

On another note....where do I get a hutch to fit on top of my desk? I don't think my bookshelf wall unit is wide enough ...meaning I have 3 people and need 3 baskets across and it won't fit. Maybe just go to the oak store (cabinets are oak) and find a hutch?

Ann Ellis, can you find a custom cabinet maker or woodworker or carpenter near you?

That might be your best bet. Even an "unfinished furniture" place could probably make something really nice looking, just the right size, for not a terrible amount of money.

Esp. if you're willing to paint it (take a drawer front in to the paint store, and have them match)

If you go that route, buy your baskets (or boxes or cloth bins) first, so you can get cubbies the right size.

I wanted to do the same thing in our office - get a hutch for the desk. We have a place here that is kind of like a year round garage sale - old cast off furniture, etc. that they fix up and sell. Anyways, I found a hutch, it fit, I bought it, but didn't like it. I had a little extra space next to my desk that would have been hard to get to if a hutch was blocking the way. I ended up with standards and shelves over my desk which works much better, and I actually have more storage space than I would have with a hutch. FYI

Thanks Talley, it is good to know I am not alone. It drives me crazy when I do spend hours cleaning, only to have DH come home and move something centimeters. Or I haven't touched something all day, and he will come home and move it. AAARRGH. Just leave it alone!!!

Now to the office. I do have a good 2 drawer filing cabinet I think we got from an office that was moving, but it is full! Although I am sure it needs to be cleaned out. Right now we have a corner computer desk that has really no storage. Everything is on the top of the desk, cubbies, in baskets, paper, paper everywhere! I do research for a coupon website and am the secretary for the music boosters at the high school, so there is a lot of paper. Just need a better filing system.

I do have in the closet a cabinet that right now houses lots of craft stuff that I haven't used in forever. I am thinking about taking that out, cleaning it out and repurposing it. Maybe paint and a little molding, a cork board on the front, baskets and labels inside...

I need a real desk with drawers to put stuff away. I have 4 different rolly carts with different size drawers for various and sundry things. One holds kids school supplies I try to always have on hand so there is no running to the store in the middle of the night! Buy them in Aug/Sept when they are cheap!

Then I have all my fabric, I make flannel rag quilts for friends then use the scraps to make blankies for preemies. Have lots of flannel remnants, need to get that in line.

Ok, now I am stressing, just need to concentrate on one thing at a time. Today it is the paper work on the floor. Once I can get through that it won't be so bad.

Thanks again,

Laura

RJVT, thanks for mentioning the standards and shelves. That would be easier, cheaper, more flexible, etc.

And AnnEllis, if you went that route, you could really dress them up--paint the standards the same color as the wall. Buy shelf brackets that are a little bit shorter than the shelves are deep, so you can attach molding to the front edge of the shelf; use a decorative molding that's wider than the shelf is thick, and have the top edges align. The molding that extends below the shelf will help to cover the shelf bracket, so it won't be as noticeable. (You can paint the shelf bracket to blend, if you'd like).

You can have the shelves cut to the size you want out of 3/4" furniture-grade plywood, and cover the cut edges w/ iron-on edgebanding or w/ molding (front AND sides, if you'd like).

If you find a molding that blends well w/ your cabinets, they'll look built in, even if they aren't.

You can even up a top shelf up at the same height as the top of the upper cabinets, and attach crown molding to it.

Doors are a little harder on those sorts of shelves. Not impossible, but harder.