Another thing - it has been sitting empty for at least 20 years and perhaps a lot longer.

Yet one more thing (sorry) - the location is wonderful, in the historic district of the town. Best street in the town by far. The house is on the national historic registry.

would sell for no more than $200,000 in this town. I think I can purchase it for around $60k.

and

I already know it will be $30k to fix the roof that has to be done right away. Then I need to fix the electric, plumbing heat, etc and all that is before ever touching the rest of the interior of the house

and

has the original knob and tube wiring, boiler heat, original plumbing, all original fixtures.

===>>> i dont see any chance.. that you will ever profit with this list of basic needs ...

especially with what sounds like.. no experience in the field ...

and i bet.. if you had the experience.. you would be running away from it.. like everyone else has.. for the last 20 years ...

best idea... hire a contractor to do on onsite inspection and ballpark such ... BEFORE writing the offer.. and if seller is not willing.. then walk on by ...

ken

Hi - thanks for your reply. You are probably right :(

I don't really care about making a profit - I just don't want a total money pit. I don't want to put more than $200k in it to get it decent and liveable and I want to keep as many of the original features as I can.

I don't have experience with renovating houses but have a lot of experience with buying/flipping newer properties, farms, and acreages on my own. My dad (now deceased) was a contractor.

It is on a double lot - from what I have researched, single lots on that street sell for around $25-30k (of course those are empty lots).

The house hasn't been on the market until now (actually won't go on the market until next week). I know the owner though.

"Historical Register" Speak with the town about what that means as to your ability to modify the building. You are in a $traight jacket in this type renovation.

Having just about finished the restoration of an 1860's house I can tell you that you are absolutely looking at a total money pit. This will especially be so in the historic district. They will determine what you can and cannot do as well as the materials you will have to use. I would suggest that you get an architect familiar with the requirements of the area. At least have a consultation with the architect prior to moving forward.

I think you will be well north of $200k in this project. I know I am and I did all the plumbing and htg myself as well as working with the crew.

I think I would budget around $300k for the renovation plusthe price of the home. That may be low. Can you take that kind of a hit? How does it modify your lifestyle? As I told my wife, she said she really likes the house. I told her it is a good thing, because for what we spent on it we are going to be spending a lot of time in it.

Thanks so much for your reply. Definitely a reality check. I guess I was seriously underestimating the big-ticket items (I was budgeting about $150k for replacing electric, plumbing, HVAC, and roof). $300k is too steep and nobody in this town can afford to put that kind of money in a house that will not be worth over $200k when finished. It's sad because this house will probably never be restored and eventually will fall down or be torn down.

I guess I am baffled as to how so many of these old houses are kept up. How do people afford to do it?

Part of the cost of replacing plumbing depends on how accessible it is. We're in a 1-story house with a basement, so it was easy to work from below.

Most old-house restorations are a labor of love. If you don't DIY a lot, you can easily get way over budget. So the short answer to your question is that old houses are kept up by people who don't care about the cost.

Prices can be so variable by geography, it would be best to have a few contractors give you an idea. You say it's in a small town, but a small town near a big city? Or a small town in a rural area?

I don't really care about making a profit

==>> though i used that word ... perhaps you miss the point ...

if you invest 200,001 ... in an area where it will be worth 200k ... then.. by my definition.. its a money pit ...

because we both know.. it isnt going to be one dollar ...

many peeps would suggest.. you never invest more in a house than it is or might be worth ... and that is what i was meaning.. when i said profit ...

if you had experience in renovating houses... it might be worth the risk ... but as a novice.. i highly recommend walking by ...

BTW... i live in an area with the old painted ladies in rural MI . ... as you say.. i dont know how peeps do it... a typical 5 color victorian paint job can easily be 10 to 15 THOUSAND dollars .. MINIMUM ... every ten years or so ... it boggles my mind.. and many of them are 3 stories.. its not like most of us will be painting it ourselves ...

run.. dont walk away ... think of it this way ... there is a reason its been vacant for however long you said.. 20 years????

good luck

ken

and don't forget how the taxes will go up on you. If you buy it for 60 and put in 200 the town will find a way to tax it at 260. even if you cannot sell it for more than 200.

not every structure built by man needs to be, or should be, forever preserved.

the original owners did not update it for a reason.

this is the difficulty I had in the midwest. It was much less expensive to start over than to renovate, and the land was not worth much.

thanks everyone.

I think this house should be preserved. I just don't think I can do it.

I make about 4 times the mean family income in this town (as a single woman) but still, I am not independently wealthy and could not justify putting in more than $100k+ over what the house is worth.

To specify, when I said that I wondered how others did it, I really meant not the restoration part but the updating the electric/plumbing/HVAC/possibly foundation parts. Those are what would potentially be the killer (the hidden things), not the rest of it.

But most of this dumb little town (and it's in a rural area an hour away from any town over 7k, for the person who asked) consists of houses of this age or a decade or two newer - most not this "fancy" but still... someone had to update the big ticket items like electric, etc. But these houses already updated sell for $60k and the buyers have no resources to do more than pay the mortgage.

Offer bottom dollar and see what happens. If I had a house sitting empty for 20 years, I would take about anything!

A couple years ago, we looked at a lovely Victorian that had been on the market for a while. The price had been reduced and reduced again. When we had it inspected, asbestos was found so we told the realtor we were no longer interested. Her reply? "Make an offer. I think they are so desperate to move, they'll take anything". We didn't.

Linda

Subtract the value of the land, then divide the remainder by the square footage to see what the asking price is that way. I bought my house in '95 for about $35 sq ft, and you cannot build a freestanding garage for that amount.
Some of the work required will be specialized, IOW outside the experience of the majority of contractors or subs, but a lot of it will be the same as any remodel, like replumbing and rewiring, and new heat.
The fact that it's brick should count favorably, as once the repairs are made, you will have an almost maintenance-free exterior.
I didn't see if you mentioned the sq ft; don't saddle yourself with too much house, a 3000+ sq ft place for a single person is really too much. And a waste to heat that much volume in a cold climate.
You could get a preservation-minded pro to evaluate it, and then decide if making a lower offer is worth pursuing.
Casey

Wait a minute...have you had any actual inspections or estimates at all, besides the roof? Don't give up so quickly!

I am also looking at a small town and houses are way below market value...but those values will go up again. Not as much as in town, but they are crazy low right now.

So, figure out what it will cost and what you can afford. Then decide if it's worth the gamble (because that's what any investment really is) to buy the house. You don't have to go overboard and you can do things without getting THE most expensive option.

Again, don't give up so quickly...house renovation is going to be tough. But then, so is life. Challenges make life more interesting, as long as they don't overwhelm us :)

I was budgeting about $150k for replacing electric, plumbing, HVAC, and roof.

If the foundations are solid and the roof joists are solid (if it's just replacing worn out shingles, not the whole rafter structure) AND there has been little water damage from leaks and broken windows, you might be able to do it. That needs inspection by someone who is familiar with old houses.

A huge factor in that is the way the house is built. How easy is the access to get inside the attic and basement and walls and run new stuff?

Another factor is where you plan to install any new bathrooms.

We paid thousands less than most of our neighbors when we upgraded plumbing and wiring in an 1890s 3-story (5 apartments in what had been a single family house - awesome place).

1 - We still had the original "bell chase" - a sort of enclosed box where the old servant's bell wires ran. And we had full access to a walk-around basement where the bell wires ended. (sitting in the basement waiting to be summoned, it must have been wonderful)

2 - The conversion to apartments had been done rationally, with the plumbing in two "stacks" and kitchens and bath water-using fixtures sharing a common wall.

And the electrician and the plumber were smart enough to look for the bell chase and figure out the best way to get close to what we wanted.

And that brings up the third factor ... if you want "X" and the house says "nope", listen to the house.

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/room-of-the-day-storage-attic-now-an-uplifting-master-suite-stsetivw-vs~33057208 is an attic addition where the house was calling the shots for much of the project. But it works.

How did they keep it up? They didn't let things slide. It got fixed/replaced when it should have been. I could never have done all the upgrades in my house if I had to do them all at once. Thankfully each owner did it along the way. About 45 years ago I read in a magazine, don't wait to do the things to your house you would like to do just to sell it. Do those things so that you can enjoy them. The next owner will have different ideas anyway.