We have an opportunity to buy an 1800sqft foursquare built in 1916. Its heating, electrical, and roof systems are in impeccable shape. However, the home's been owned by a family since 1960 and is in need of widespread updating. Here's a list of what we'd need to do.

Central AC installed upstairs (and downstairs if we wish, although it's cooled by a single huge window a/c just fine) (est- $4-7K)

Wallpaper stripping and painting throughout (walls are wood, not plaster-- has anybody else encountered this? will this make removing the wallpaper hell?) (no cost est yet)

Refinish wood floors throughout (est $4K)

Kitchen update (needs dishwasher, additional cabinetry) (no cost est yet)

Exterior paint job (no cost est yet)

We'd also like to install a washer/dryer connection upstairs (the current w/d are two stories away from the bedrooms-- in the basement). The plan is to live with the 1.5 baths for now, and in the future, add a master suite/bathroom/office that will give us our "dream house."

We have a 7-month-old baby, so my ability to DIY is pretty limited at this point. We're thinking that we'd need to hire others to strip wallpaper/paint/refinish floors/update kitchen before moving in. I'm still gathering estimates, but we'd spend 20-30K doing so.

The kicker is that, because we're moving from a big city to a small town, this house and its updates would be paid for (no mortgage). This is a freedom that we haven't had in the past, and I think it makes owning an older home (and planning to add on later) uniquely doable for us at this point in our lives. My parents live here, so we're planning for this to be a more "long term" home than any of our previous ones (this will be house #4 for us-- we're in our early 30s). I could see us being here twenty years or more.

Would YOU do this? Our relatives seem to think that we'd do well to just buy a 3/2 in a subdivision and save ourselves the hassle. But you know, now that we've lived with the charms of an older home, it's hard to resign ourselves to vinyl siding and a cookiecutter home.

OOH, another question-- how do you go about figuring a historic home's value in a small town market without many comparables? This is a FSBO home (friend of the family), so it's hard for us to know if it's a "good deal" or not. Coming from the city, it looks like a steal-- but our perspective's off, we know. Has anyone else had to do this? Would a local appraisal be all that we'd need?

Re. pricing, you really need to do your homework here. If you're not certain how to value it, can you take the historic part out of the equation and look for comps of similar size? Then, if that's how it works in your market, add (?) a bit to compensate for the house's age. I put the question in there because I don't know if older houses are worth more where you're located -- in some places, they're considered teardowns or are worth less. So sad...

If you have time, and it sounds like you might, get the best idea you can of how much cash/work/time it's going to take to make this house livable for you. Then how much more will it take to make it your "forever house" (as you say you may be there for 20 years). Err on the side of caution, padding the number by 10-20% as people planning remodels or new construction are always advised. Then, see if you can live with the inflated number.

I hear you on the timing issue. We have a 4yo and a 4-month-old and are almost at the end of what will be a two-year renovation of our 1920s Craftsman. We do have a GC, but I still need to tote the baby all over the Bay Area looking at cabinets, granite, plumbing fixtures etc. I think you're 100% right to think you should get done as much as possible before you move in -- we've been gypsies for the past 18 months to avoid the whole thing. Now that your baby will be mobile, you don't want him/her crawling/toddling around in the middle of all the confusion and mess.

Good luck -- I am intrigued!

Those walls were too rough to do anything with but drywall (yours may be too restoration-worthy to do that). If your walls have the uneven joints ours did, and you want to paper, you may need some old-fashioned papering skills. You might be able to tell if it's stuck on good (hard to remove) or just tacked on (easy) by feeling it.

The good thing is, wallpaper means less lead in the house. Oh, we never had to look for a stud, either. We screwed ceiling fans into the ceiling (we know better than that now, but those things were IN and I have full confidence they are more secure than any fan attached to a junction box).

Newer houses are easier, but you don't really want that, do you? :)

You don't have to be in a hurry....but I think that I would like the place VERY much, too. Good luck.

My friends found their dreamhome where they plan to live for a very long time. It really is terrific. However, there are NO small children within reasonable walking distance. No one to play with unless they take their only child to a play date by car. Sad, really.

While I most definitely prefer older houses in interesting neighborhoods (and the renos needed in your house seem to be mostly "wants" rather than "needs"), the subdivisions do tend to come with playmates included :)

C.

Chris, the neighborhood is mixed-- older unfixed up homes with older renovated homes-- but in general it's one of the best older neighborhoods in town (ie no crumbling homes with cars on blocks and scary folks lounging 24/7 on the porch, etc). I imagine there are fewer children in the neighborhood than the newer ones, but as the whole town has about 12K people, you can get anywhere in five minutes. I'm not sure that I'll be wanting our little gal to walk around alone for quite a while anyway-- the world's a much more dangerous place than it was when I was skipping off to my friend's house a few blocks away at age 6.

vivian- you've got a good point on the kitchen. I took a second look at it this week, and I think we might be able to just paint it and make it work while we figured out what we really needed. It's hard to know until you've tried to move your own kitchen stuff into the space. (At least there's a basement to store our extra stuff if there's not enough room.) My concern on the wallpaper removal, etc. is mostly for our baby daughter-- I don't want her breathing clouds of cockroach droppings/coal dust/lead paint refuse as we peel loads of painted wallpaper off the walls. I'm not sure how I'd keep her out of the mess once she starts crawling (which will be in the next month or so)-- and I'm especially not sure how I'd get anything accomplished on doing it myself with her at home with me every day. Plus, my husband's tolerance is lower than mine for living in chaos. If we're going to buy the house, it needs to be livable when we move in.

Thanks for the input-- I'll let you know what we decide!

You've received some great advice. I just want to mention a couple of things...One, if you can afford to include the downstairs in the central air, go for it. Window units can be unattractive, and I discovered this week what a nuisance they are to remove and dispose of when they break (just after the warranty ran out). And secondly, I wish I could send you my floor refinisher. He would do the job for half your estimate. But maybe he's unusual....:-)

Have fun with your house!

Susan

You didn't elaborate on your fortunate financial situation. I would just caution you about taking out no mortgage at all, unless you really have big bucks in savings after buying the house to cover any and all repairs that you want to do now (20-30K, as you estimated) and in the future. I have no experience with no mortgage on a new purchase (who does, really?!), but can you apply for a HELOC (if you were to need it) after you have owned the home if you have no original mortgage? You probably can, as that would be 0% Loan:Value; it's just a good idea to make sure that zero mortgage will allow you to make all the changes that you want.

Another poster on the Buying/Selling board posted about a friend who could afford to buy their house in cash, but then had just a small cushion left over, not counting retirement and certain funds. The consensus of posters was that taking out a small mortgage and 'wasting' the interest money was worth it for the financial security of not having every cash egg in the house basket. This may or may not apply to you, of course!

Very exciting, fuzzy; I look forward to pics and such!

Unless they don't have to cut the house up for additional ductwork. Well, at least live with it for awhile to see how it goes. Often old houses w/their higher ceilings and large windows stay cooler... or maybe a house fan is all you'd need. Why spend mega$ unless you have to.

Have heard of alternatives to removing wallpaper - various coatings and such.

We're getting estimates now for the work we expect to do, so hopefully we'll minimize the unpleasant surprises.

Of course, I still have to convince my husband that he wants to buy it. (Working on that...)

Also - the exterior painting could run as high as 5-10k.

What about plubming and electric? These could easily run 10k in upgrades.

We got into every light fixture and found it wasn't done properly and have had to have every junction box redone.

What about porches/landscaping/garge - these could each be 5k each?

Are the floors refinishable? We have found in some rehabs that the floors were beyond refinishing - something to consider.

Roof/chimney - these are all things that may go in the near future.

Windows - do these need rehabbed?

I find that normally when we've flipped homes the estimates are usually about 2x what we estimate. I know our original estimates were 50k and it seems like it's going to be 100k this round because there were some things that were not discovered for a few months.

Also with a new born in the home are you going to feel comfortable/safe with all the dust/mess?

FSBOs historically are reported to sell over market value based on stats. I'd consider having an agent do a CMA for you - it's a terrible time to overpay for a property no mortgage or not.

Very long story made short: We bought it, and we're still glad we did. We've done a ton of restoration/updating work in the three years we've been here.

Entire downstairs, plus one bedroom: carpet/linoleum removed, hardwood floors refinished
Kitchen: rewire electrical, add outlets
Living room: New ceiling fan, blinds (paint coming soon)
Dining room: New chandelier, a/c unit (only one in the house)
Stairway/hallway/entryway/office: Removal of nasty dated paneling with thin drywall installed throughout. All woodwork removed and re-installed after drywall. New carpet and blinds. Made an ungodly mess for months. Looks great now!

That looks like a big list when I write it all out, but there's an even bigger list of things yet to come. You all know how that goes, I'm sure. :)

It's still hit-and-miss on the inside, so I won't share interior pics just yet, but I thought you all might like to see some before-and-after shots of our exterior paint job-- this year's big project. Click to enlarge.

Exterior before:

Exterior after:

Thanks so much for your help! We adore the house and plan to be here for a very long time.

I do hope you'll relieve the poor house of that hedge soon though...:-)

KarinL

I would get the lead paint issue resolved before you move in, but other than that, this is just the cost of owning a home. I've never moved into a house, including a custom home we designed, without wanting to make changes. Maybe you can use this logic with your husband.
Diane