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Window reno project - hit a wall

Posted by graywings (My Page) on
Mon, May 5, 14 at 18:13

The window sashes in the rear of my house have no pulley systems for holding them open. I call them guillotine windows. I am/was planning to install pulleys and weights, and finally started the project by removing one casing from one window, expecting to see space behind the casing. Instead, there is a solid board there.

Any ideas for what I can do now? Is there any chance that if I drill a hole through that board I will discover an open pocket? I would be willing to switch to spring balances, but even for that, I need some space behind the side jam to install it.

I have eight windows like this. This one that I started with happens to be the only one on a load bearing wall. I don't know whether that matters or not.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

The simplest would Be the pressure springs that attach to the sides of the sashes.
Another is to install the cable sash balances the require removing the parting bead, cutting the space in the jamb, on one or both sides, for the device, which is only the thickness of the jamb.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Could you point me to examples of those two products? The tape balance I found is over 3 inches deep.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Here is the place to look;

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=sash+balances+for+windows&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

While I only used the friction product once and will not use them again, I mentioned them only as an alternative which is available at ACE, TRUE VALUE an MENARD'S.

Either of these two is my product of choice and while the box is a little hard to read, there is an application chart.

http://woodwindowssashbalance.com/duplex-adjustable.htm


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Thank you! I found this catalog sheet from Acme.

If I understand the diagrams correctly, the mechanism spans both sashes. What do you do about the parting bead in front of the mechanism?

I'm searching the Ace Hardware site and coming up negative for the friction product.

Here is a link that might be useful: Acme catalog sheet


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

I called Acme about the parting bead. You put a notch in it where the mechanism goes.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

It appears that the frame has not been painted, which is positive.
The parting may be nailed with larger them a #3 or 4 finish nail, so be careful in the removal.
Prior to the reassembly, remove about 1/2 the depth of the parting bead where the sash balance has been inserted.

Before you remove the parting bead, strike a line in the area of the selected insertion, where the bead meets the jamb.

I know that others here have referenced and used them, but I have not used the friction product on so long I've forgotten their name.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

To Install the tape balances, you just use a drill bit to create the proper sized mortise into the stud. You may find you can still get top-mounted tape balance housings that recess into the head jamb; normally they are used for closely-mulled (coupled) windows with no room for a side-jamb mounting.
Casey


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

According to the CAD drawings, the Acme twin side balances are 3 inches wide, 6 inches long, and 3/4 inch deep. That sounds like a major morticing project.

I haven't removed the head casing, so I don't know what's under there. If it has the same solid wood as I found behind the side casing, that's a non-starter.

Here is a link that might be useful: CAD drawings


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

"That sounds like a major morticing project."

If you let it, or being smarter than an inanimate object, is a plus.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Huh?


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

The Caldwell balances are about 3" h x 3" d x 3/4" thick, just a bit bigger than a pulley. The Pullman balances follow the same pattern.
Casey


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Nail a stick to the lower sash so it will rotate down when you open the window. Safe. Simple. Free. PIA? Zero. Want 2 size openings? 2 sticks.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Casey, I have gone to both the Caldwell and Pullman websites and can't find the balances you referred to. But even a 3x3 morticing job for 3/4 inches deep would be a lot. I have been practicing drilling holes using a forstner bit and it takes forever. I even bought a corded drill because my batteries didn't hold up to the job.

But the Pullman site has given me an idea - maybe I could surface mount industrial balances on the head jamb to lift the lower sash. Ugly, I know, but they would be hidden behind drapes. It's better than the stick idea.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Like I said, if you let it.

I learned this 40+ yrs. ago from a carpenter who's favorite say for people who offered reasons why not;

"There are only two can'ts, if you can't cut it, you can't stay."

He handed me an ACME sash balance and said there's the window, install it flush, figure it out.

I had a sawsall, 3/8 drill, claw hammer, 3/4" chisel a channel locks and a set of spade bits.

I market the jamb, removed the parting bead, Mortised the nailing flanges, drill a 1-3/8" hole in the 4 corners of the marked detail, cut out what I could with the sawsall, removed the blade and holding it with the channel locks
removed the balance, installed the ACME, removed the area of the parting bead and installed it.

Took me about an hour.

Takes about 15min. now. My tools have improved.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

I have been practicing that exact procedure off and on for months, but using a jigsaw in place of the sawsall. It wasn't that hard, and I was ready to start, until I found that beam, which precludes using the sawsall/jigsaw.

So this isn't a matter of my being lazy or not understanding what needs to be done. It's my recognizing how long it takes to drill away 3/4 inch of century wood with a forstner bit times the number of times it takes to get a 3x3 or 3x6 opening. And get it smooth. Trust me, you can't do it in an hour.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

The process that I first used was with the casing still attached.
Drop the forstner bit, pick up the sawxall with a short fine tooth metal blade or cut the blade of the jigsaw off, learn about angle of presentation, speed control and depth of cut.

I can accomplish the original method with the same tools in about 25min.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

So you are scoring the wood repeatedly and then chiseling the loose wood away.

I shudder to think of what could happen if I got the angle of presentation wrong with a sawsall.


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

There's no scoring, just cutting

Drill the holes then cut from hole too hole with the sawzall.

" cut out what I could with the sawsall, removed the blade and holding it with the channel locks removed the balance."


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RE: Window reno project - hit a wall

Mortise for body of the balance does not need to be pretty, just adequate. The 1x4 mortise 1/8" deep for the faceplate should be nicely-fitted.
The top mounted balance is here:
http://pullmanmfg.com/pdfs/Standard_Spec_Sheet.pdf
Called the "overhead" type.
Casey


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