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61tinkerbell

restored old windows.. now they leak awful!

tinker_2006
12 years ago

13 of our 20 old, 6/1 windows have been painstakingly restored. One thing we didn't do was to keep track of where each window went, but all and all - they seem to all fit decent, a couple are a little on the tight side... but they all now operate, and seem to close pretty nice, not too loose or shaky. We are preparing the outside to paint, and had a pressure washing company come and pressure wash the house. Meanwhile, the floor re-finisher was inside, getting the floors ready (they were completely sanded at this point, waiting for first coat of finish. He called us in a panic, as water was coming in at a pretty good amount... thankfully - he was there to clean it up, but still was very, very concerned as to what the strong bleach would do in the areas that got soaked. most of the floors are okay - one area did get a bleached spot. Knowing this, we'll never pressure wash the house again, but now we realize just how untight these old windows are! Any suggestions to seal the windows more?

Comments (21)

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    12 years ago

    "One thing we didn't do was to keep track of where each window went, but all and all - they seem to all fit decent, a couple are a little on the tight side... "

    There iz no cure for teh stupid... I read that on lolcats once.
    The majority of windows and doors will leak if you train a 150 PSI stream of water at the joints for any length of time. A pressure washing pro should know this; you avoid windows and doors, doubly so if they are open.
    You need to go back and put the right sash in the right place. They needed total restoration after just 20 years? What kind of restoration work was done, other than jumbling them?
    Casey

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago

    "One thing we didn't do was to keep track of where each window went, but all and all - they seem to all fit decent, a couple are a little on the tight side... "

    And a like number are probably on the loose side.

    Pressure washers are also a lot higher tan 150 PSI, a decent one can strip paint off wood, a pro unit can cut your name into concrete.

  • millworkman
    12 years ago

    +1 on sombreuil and brickeye's advice there to do but figure out where the correct sash go and start there.

  • tinker_2006
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    well, too late - that's not gonna happen! The windows are in, and finished. Like I said, they all operate smooth, except for 2 are on the tight side, they are not loose, and top and bottom sashes are aligned straight. A mistake, but we are going to have to live with it at this point, because no way in *ell would we start over.

    I said 13 of 20 (total amount) were done, the house is 75 yr old, we'll be sure to make sure the balance is removed and replaced with the same sashes.

    I don't know what pressure they were washed at, we weren't there, but no more pressure washing is for sure.

  • liriodendron
    12 years ago

    OK, so you got the water that leaked in around the windows cleaned up. Have you thought about the water that leaked or was driven into other places (by the PW) that isn't so visible? Perhaps it's now inside the walls or soffit spaces? (PWers in the hands of many workers are very dangerous for houses, IMO.)

    BTW, changing the sashes around shouldn't be all that troublesome and should have been the responsibility of the window restorers. Maybe they should come back and fix that?

    If the pressure washers drove water in, what's a hurricane going to do? (Am I remembering correctly that you are in SFla?)

    You can get the windows so they are better-sealed if you add weather stripping. But the leaks may not be just between the sashes, parting rails and jambs. The PW may have revealed places where the window casing, header or stool need attention and perhaps re-caulking (after sufficient ventilation to make sure you are not trapping water from the PWing.)

    Just so you know, if your siding is dirty it can be cleaned and prepped for painting just with soap and hot water and brushes and careful rinsing with a garden hose from above. I have to do that each Fall on one end of the wing of my old house where the conditions are right for the growth of a little mold on my siding.

    HTH,
    L.

  • tinker_2006
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    okay, I totally understand I made a boo boo having the house pressure washed.. I never even gave it a thought! It's over, can't go back, and neither can the windows! Even if they were not 100% re-installed, I still can't hit the unwind button and put them back into the original window frames.. they were NEVER labeled.. so we are clueless! We removed the sashes and had a restorer take them to his shop, we finished the window jams and casings ourselves, he returned the windows and we installed them.

    What is done is done... but the good advise I got at this point is 1) weatherstripping & 2) mark future windows & 3) DON'T PW! Hopefully this will help someone else avoid mistakes.

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    12 years ago

    I'm curious as to what kind of 20 year old windows do not have a built-in weatherstripping system. It would then be a matter of finding replacement seals,
    Casey

  • tinker_2006
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Casey, re-read my first 2 posts - they are NOT 20 years old, I have 20 windows. The house/windows are 75 years old.

    house built - 1937 - 75 years old
    windows are original - 75 years old

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago

    Tinker- What a mess! Sorry this happened :(

    Hopefully, others will learn from your situation and I had the same problem once, when someone told us to power wash my grandma's house, before painting. We were just using the sprayer on the garden hose around the door and it started being a problem. Luckily, we never got to the point of getting a power sprayer!

    I'm interested in your experience, because I'm thinking about replacing our windows (not in great shape, old but not original, and I don't really want to do storm windows). Your experience is just another plus, in the replace column. Thanks for sharing and I hope the rest of the windows are easier :)

  • mccall
    12 years ago

    did you replace the Spring bronze on your windows before you reinstalled them?

  • tinker_2006
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    lavender, yes - I sure wish I read or tested before hiring a PW company... you would have thought they would have mentioned this to us!

    mccall, there is not any Spring Bronze on the windows. I just had to google this to see what they were! These cooper strips are on exterior doors, but the definitely were not on any of our windows.

  • oldhousegal
    12 years ago

    tinker- have you considered replacing or adding weatherstripping to your window frame stops? I am in the process of restoring my windows, and found the Easy Stop system from Advanced Technology. I just installed them - super easy to do, and they really tighten up the old sashes. I have to admit that they are rather spendy at $75 per window, but they do work and were easy. I also found some 'This Old House' videos on their website that talk about routering the rails and adding weatherstripping, and of course, someone already mentioned spring bronze. Both together provides a much less expensive way of tightening them up.

    Before you do anything though, you might want to look at John Leeke's Historichomewoks.com and read through all the information he has. As I've discovered, this can be a complex job and requires a bit of painstaking attention to every detail- but so worth it! Good Luck.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Easy Stop

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago

    Resource Conservation (Baltimore, MD) has all sorts of seals for windows.

    Many are not very expensive, but may reacquire sash removal and the routing of small (3/32 wide) grooves in the edges of the sash to anchor the 'flipper seal'.

    They work very well.

    The meeting rail can use a felt type seal in the face of the rail on the inner sash so it never shows from inside the house.

  • tinker_2006
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks for the info, I'm going to look into the options. I'm not ready to remove the sashes at anytime soon.... it is a giant step backwards for us right now, we need to keep moving forward and move in! Meanwhile, I'll gather the info and at least work on the remaining windows so that they will be as good as we can get!

  • motoguy128
    12 years ago

    You could add storm windows. Low-E probably wouldn't be a terrible thing in your climate. Although you might get condensation between the panes on the shaded downstairs windows.

  • dirt_cred
    12 years ago

    With all the talk about weatherstripping, here and elsewhere, I don't understand why there isn't more mention of the interlocking kind. It's original equipment on my 1913 windows and have heard mention of it here, google it successfully and it is the best thing I've ever seen or heard of.

    It's exactly what it says - interlocking. There's a folded piece of thin metal (zinc?) nailed along the length of each side of each sash and the stops. The top and bottom sashes interlock and slide up and down inside the strip on the stop. There is also interlock on the meeting rails and at top and bottom where a folded strip actually fits into a metal lined slot on the top/bottom of the sash. There's no way wind can penetrate.

    I don't know why it's so hard to find photos rather than drawings of them but if I ever get back to restoring windows I'll try to remember to make a point of posting a photo here.

    I have ancient triple track storms on most windows - I've only been able to find an old storm for one of my 28-30 windows (don't remember if I included the two attic windows in the original count) and no clue when they can be replaced. How old are they? How long does it take for aluminum to rust? They are heavy and tight, though and the combination produces no frost, no condensation, no air movement. I visited a neighbor who had just had "top of the line" replacements installed and could feel cold and plenty of air penetration (an honest to pete breeze.) I tried not to be too visibly smug but it redoubled my commitment to my old windows.

    Here is a link that might be useful: the best illustration I found

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    12 years ago

    I think this illustration (link) is clearer. They sell it in zinc or brass.
    Casey

    Here is a link that might be useful: interlocking window weatherstripping

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago

    There are times when plastic is a better answer.

    See resource Conservation's selection of plastic 'flipper' seals.

    Felt seals for the meeting rail also work better tan interlocking metal.

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago

    I love the various metal weatherstrips, and have used a lot of the copper V-bronze along the sides of the sashes. But the stripping that's worked by far the best for me, given the unevenness of the old frames, is wool "mohair" brush. You can rout it in (or find the adhesive kind, although that's surely less durable).

  • columbusguy1
    12 years ago

    I'm not fond of the v-strip types--my doors had it and in each case it has broken off and left me only with the nails--of course, it was probably put in at the time the house was built in 1908.
    My windows all have the 'integral' metal strips which mount to the window opening and fit into slots routed on the sashes--also done originally. Unfortunately, I didn't discover how to get it out to fix sash cords until I had ruined about six of them--now need to find replacements. What makes them different from the modern ones I've seen is that the side pieces are in two parts, while the top and bottoms are single pieces--many of the ones I took out had roofing felt underneath, and seem to have been held in with tiny screws rather than nails!

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    12 years ago

    The felt paper was to shim the strips so it all fight just right.
    The link in my previous post will lead to one vendor.
    The only two-piece I know of is for check rails where a J-shape receives a flat strip in its crook, but this type is not generally used vertically, except on swinging doors and casement windows.
    Casey

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