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roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Posted by msjay2u (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 24, 10 at 10:47

Okay here is my problem. I have a house with additions and the roof is leaking. Here is an old frontal view:
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I was told that this is the source of the leaks and the circled areas were patched with rubber roofing.
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the roof is still leaking and I am thinking it is from multiple sources. He said to use the rubber because of the low pitch. I was wondering if I had the rubber put on all the places where the different roofs join thei have architectural shingles installed over the whole roof if this would fix the problem.
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I fisrt thought of putting that closed cell insulation sprayed in the roof on the underside of the roof and that would waterproof it but I was told that I can only use open cell (useless in my case),on top of that the estimate was $5,000 (an my house is only 875 sq ft, so i decided against that. Here is the inside of the main roof
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looking for ideas before hiring a contractor so I will know he is telling me right.

thanks


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

foam is a good product, but not a solution for a leaky roof. closed cell would trap water causing roof decking to rot when roof leaks..open cell would allow the water to drain out.
that said...
your roof is a low pitch and the valleys (that your arrows point to) have to manage a lot of water.
it could be something as simple as a nail or two (or two dozen..who knows) in the valley flashing. fyi nails are used to hold the valley flashing in place..but should not
penetrate the valley flashing. Or if the problem has been ongoing the valley flashing may have rusted through.
I'm not real clear on what you refer to as rubber roofing.
I know what a torch down rubber roof is..but this is just patches? or some rubber adhesive?
You say:
He said to use the rubber because of the low pitch. I was wondering if I had the rubber put on all the places where the different roofs join thei have architectural shingles installed over the whole roof if this would fix the problem.

If you nail through rubber roofing..you make leaks.

Call several roofers in your area and get comprehensive
ideas of what is available for your area.
You can spend a lotta money and not fix the problem.
Start investigating and you will prolly find someone locally that will suit your needs and give you a warrenty
when repair is made. make sure that you take a hose on the
roof after repair is completed to test for leaks.

Sorry for your issues, and best of luck.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Rubber roofing is also known as a membrane. I paid a contractor to repair it. Each time the leak got worse and the last time he came the leak is back to where it started. I am having a hard time finding a roof guy that will do the job right. This one made it worse and now I have more interior repairs to do. He was recommended and has nothing against him with the BBB and no complaints with the building inspectors. I am at wits end. I can not continue to pay people who will cause me more money. What to do??

The roof looks terrible now:

roof patch

close up of the patch:

roof patch

I had some tiles on the livingroom ceiling that fell in. Until the roof gets fixed the ceiling stays. The first time he came there were 2 tiles that fell and one spot on the ceiling (prior to the tiles falling). Second time a few more spots, third time see below. Now I am back to one little spot leaking. ugggggh!!!

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and as you see the ceiling is those ugly tiles over wood planks
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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

How old is the roof?

KarinL


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

about 10 years and according to the receipts a previous owner gave me they fully replaced the roof every 10 years due to leaks. This is not who sold me the house. another lady sold it to me and she only lived in the house for a little over 1 year


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Replacing the entire roof every 10 years is pretty hard to believe, but I guess there's no real reason to doubt what you've been told. From the pictures, it seems as if the rubber membrane was used as a patch and water is making its way under it especially in the valleys.

About your best option would seem to be stripping off everything that's currently on the roof. Then cover the entire surface with Ice and Water Shield or a comparable product. Unlike a rubber membrane, these products are self sealing around nail penetrations. A double layer in the valleys might be advisable. After that, put on whatever shingles you want.

A second more elaborate option would be creating a new roof on top of the old one. A friend did this last summer. Old roof stripped down to the deck. Sleeper/rafters and closed cell foam added on the exterior surface, then new roof sheathing, Ice and Water Shield, then shingles. It would be possible to increase the roof pitch without too much trouble, also. Drawback is, of course, the cost.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

yeah the cost. This is a 875 sf house I plan to spend no more than $2000 on the total job.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Best solution: strip off the entire roof and do it right, including replacing any damaged planks. Ice and water shield is not necessary except for the valleys and first three feet of the eaves. Based on the leaks, it looks like this was omitted. For the rest of the roof, 30 lb felt is more than adequate under the new shingles. I doubt $2,000 will cover materials and labour. But the assorted plug ugly patches certainly aren't helping.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Had a similar situation w/3 skylites. During the worst storms no leaks light to moderate rain leaks in one, other storms other sky lite would leak. Third skylite never leaked , have pictures of the installation process could never find leaks after many trips up on roof. Every thing was done properly. The final straw came last winter with ice dams that leaked into soffits , this coupled with skylite problem convinced me to reroof. We have almost the same snow as last year , no problems. The old roof was 2nd roof on house , about 15 years old. It was put over the existing , not to mention the shingles were of poor quality.
I bit the bullet and had the whole roof stripped re roofed using ice and water barrier. The contractor owns that roof for another 6 months. This may be your only recourse, or should I say wisest


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I think the clear message from the roof's history is that shingles are not working on this roof. If the house has a reasonable remaining prospective life span, I'd also be inclined to bite the bullet and put on a roof of a different sort; I tend to like metal but there are other modern options. You don't have to strip off the existing to put metal over, and the old shingles will help with keeping rain quiet and with insulation. That keeps the cost down, though of course you can strip them off if you prefer.

But honestly, every 10 years? None of those POs were doing it for fun and not all their contractors could have been shysters. Shingles just weren't working, so fixing them is a waste of time and money and even repeating them from scratch isn't going to help either.

KarinL


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I would have found it hard to believe had I not seen the receipts for myself. The last roofer I had look at the roof said that the architectural shingles would work better for me because of the lower pitch. I am at a loss. What alternatives can I get for around $2k?? I could stretch that to $3k but certainly not beyond that! has anyone used that roofing material that looks like tin but is really rubber? I believe it is called ondura. what is ice and water barrier? is that the same as the membrane stuff I mentioned is used on the patch? I would like to see what an entire roof looks like with that...do you have a photo jonnyp?


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Ice and Water Shield is the brand name for the product made by W. R. Grace. It is not the same as the rubber membrane used on your roof as a patch. Ice and Water Shield (and similar products with different brand names from other manufacturers)comes in a roll and has a very aggressive adhesive on one side. Its great virtue is that it self-seals around any nail penetrations. Costs about $120 for a roll that covers 225 square feet. You can save a little money by using it only on edges and valleys,but given the history of this roof, covering the entire roof deck would be pretty cheap insurance.

What goes on the exterior whether metal, architectural shingles or common ones seems to me pretty irrelevant. I can't believe that any shingles could have deteriorated so badly in just ten years that they need replacement. Water is getting under the shingles (your photos seem to show no ridge cap where the patch was placed, for example) - this needs to be corrected and you need the backup of a waterproof underlayment like Ice and Water Shield beneath the covering.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I have nothing to add for the roof, but I wanted to say your house is very beautiful, I love the stone fireplace, the windows, and the lovely cottage proportions. I can understand why you have problems where the three roof planes come together, but it is a lovely house.

Is the interior ceiling damage picture showing a dropped panel ceiling below the original board ceiling? To fix the water damage (after the roof is dealt with, of course), would you consider removing the dropped ceiling and going back to the original? Just wondering; I thought it looked interesting.

We have an intermittent leak in a small room off my daughter's bedroom. we plan to replace the roof, but as a stopgap measure I bought a roll of textured wallpaper and stapled/glued it to the edges around the water damaged place in the ceiling. I plan to rip it off and attach a fresh piece whenever the water makes it look ugly again. It's a ridiculous, doily-over-the-hole stopgap measure, but for less than $20, it made a huge visual improvement, and it's held up for months. Sometimes doing something minor like this can help you feel better while you're trying to grapple with the bigger problem.

Here's a nice one for $22:

Here is a link that might be useful: Ceiling wallpaper


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

What others are calling "membrane" roofing does not appear to me to be synthetic rubber (EPDM) but ordinary asphalt roll roofing in 3 ft wide strips overlapped or woven across the valley. Integrating this kind of "patch" into the shingles is difficult and is usually only temporary.

You need to strip the roof, repair the deck, install Ice & Water Shield over all of it (there would be little left uncovered if all edges, valleys, penetrations and ridges were protected) and install reasonable quality asphalt shingles.

The low slope part of the roof might need a membrane depending on the slope; I can't tell from the photograph.

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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

You need to strip the roof, repair the deck, install Ice & Water Shield over all of it

I build in a cold environment with relatively high snowfalls and have never seen a need for covering the whole roof in ice and water shield. Indeed, when I had cottages with low slope roofs north of here where the snow can be hip high in April I didn't do it either. If this were a no-holds barred luxury home for an owner with deep pockets, "let 'em spend." In this case, overkill.

But maybe I'm presuming that the roofers would understand how to handle all those valleys and you're suggesting covering everything with the shield to make up for their lack of demonstrated skills.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

You need to strip the roof, repair the deck, install Ice & Water Shield over all of it

I build in a cold environment with relatively high snowfalls and have never seen a need for covering the whole roof in ice and water shield. Indeed, when I had cottages with low slope roofs north of here where the snow can be hip high in April I didn't do it either. If this were a no-holds barred luxury home for an owner with deep pockets, "let 'em spend." In this case, overkill.

But maybe I'm presuming that the roofers would understand how to handle all those valleys and you're suggesting covering everything with the shield to make up for their lack of demonstrated skills.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

From what I see in the photographs I would make no assumptions about the competence of a roofer for this house.

The additional cost of covering the entire roof with Ice & Water Shield is probably between $100 and $200. It would be cheap insurance IMHO.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Thanks for all your suggestions. I have someone coming over today to give me an estimate. The roof is covered with snow right now so I am hoping he can see exactly all the places in the roof that water is coming in. The previous roofs were put on by the same person and it could be a case of using 10-15 year shingles which would explain all the roof work. They were older people so they might have figured they would only get 10 more years out of the house?? They might not have been able to afford anything more OR the roofer could have ripped them off. That is all speculation. My concern is getting it corrected.

As for the patch, I thought that looked like plain tarpaper myself. I guess when someone comes to look at it (after the snow is gone) he will be able to tell me if that is plain tar paper or not. (It better not be!!) I specifically asked the contractor and he said no it was membrane.

How much is a reasonable price per square to replace roof with architectural shingles (south east region) with the ice shield in the valleys including labor? Any idea?

THANKS


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)


an average price per sq is about $175 labor and material.
i would say your house is around 12 to 15 sq.ice gaurd is not included in that. this roof re-roofed with ice gaurd on the low-slope&up each side of the valleys/with new valley metal should be in the 4 to 5 k area.hope this helps good luck.also i would say that your patch is definatly just felt paper,which will work temporarily


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

slateberry I did not mean to ignore you. Thanks for the compliments on the house. I love it too. On a side note I am about to paint it red. I think that will make it even cuter. As for painting the ceiling I thought about that but if you notice I have wood walls and I thought that the wall and ceiling being wood with lines it would be too busy and also I thought the air in the summer would escape into the roof because of the gaps in the wood.
I had the guy come and look at the roof and he said he thinks it should be about $3k with architectural shingles! He could not comment on the tar/membrane because it is still covered in snow but he is coming back next weekend and crawl around in the roof and see if he can put an end to these leaks once and for all. FINGERS CROSSED!!! Construction work is getting scarce so I guess the prices are good right now. I am not complaining. as long as he does not do a switcheroo.

I have a truck for sale and I am hoping to sell it really quick. That way I can get the roof fixed right.

Oh and I live in NC so we usually do not get a lot of snow. usually one snow a year and less than 3"..... this year though 6". Worst I seen in a long time here.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I know a little about roofs and am dealing with a new leak that has sprung up. Our roof is 16 yrs old and the new leak appears to be where the dormer (not new) and the roof meet. It seems the roofer who put on the roof should have used copper flashing all the way around the base of the dormer and did not. I thought these roofers knew what they were doing. Maybe they did knowing I would be developing a leak at some point and probably calling them back. Any way, I guess I would look for a reputable roofer and get it done right. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I'm sorry I can't help with your problem, but I might be able to prevent another I see you don't have any rain gutters on the roof. our house didn't either and now our basement walls are coming in. even if you don't have a basement it will rease heck with your foundation. It will cost over $15,000 to fix ours.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

My 2 cents is that the gentle slope is always going to be a problem in a snow area as when the snow builds up, the 'downhill' snow can easily be higher than the top edge of the shingle just above it, allowing the melt water to gravity flow 'down' off the snow and still reach the top edge of the shingle, overflowing it and getting beneath the shingle where it can then search out any hole in the felt or flashing beneath. I agree that the only real cure will be to use the ice shield on the entire roof. Regardless of the shingles used, the snow problem will remain. The ice shield will at least allow the water to flow beneath the shingles and down to the drip edge without getting past the roofing. A metal roof would be best but the assorted valleys would sure make that a costly option. Ice shield = that black, adhesive, gummy membrane that sticks together.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

That black, adhesive, gummy membrane is Ice & Water Shield made by W R Grace & Co. (or it's second rate imitators).

It consists of a modified bitumen (rubberized asphalt) layer with a sheet of polyethylene on top resulting in a flexible self-adhering flashing.

This basic material is sold in many thicknesses and top finishes and there is even a Butyl version for high temperature environments. It's primary advantage is that it does a reasonable job of sealing around the nails used to install roofing materials and the laps are waterproof.

When it is adhered to a rough or porous surface (like concrete or masonry) a water based primer should be applied first. The primer will make it stick to virtually anything that holds still.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Did that tree rub on the roof and cause damage to the lower section?


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

If they used EPDM membrane it is going to fail over and over in a short time.

EPDM cannot touch asphalt or tar.

If the you used bitumen membrane it should have lasted longer, but the leaves and such that are in the valley may be part of the problem.

If water cannot run off easily it can spread on the roof wider then the membrane.

You might consider using a cut valley with a layer of ice & water shield on each side of the metal flashing.

The low pith is going to cause issues with keeping valleys clean and tight.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Thank you everyone for your help. To follow up and tell you what eventually happened....I had someone tear the roof off, make some repairs in the wood and put up a dimensional roof. Thank God not a leak since


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

msjay, if I had seen this when you first posted, I would have suggested you have the roof rebuilt, but I see you have it under control now. That's good!

We had a leaky roof and we rebuilt it and raised the slope. Fixed that issue!


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Glad to see the OP got an effective repair.

Two years later and I'm sticking by my advice, which included starting from scratch where necessary.

I would have been interested in seeing the cost.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I need to hijack this post with a "simple" question. There are several professionals on here and I thought it was the best place to ask. I want to add a white layer of something onto the black rubber flat top roof over my kitchen. I presume it was once a porch back in the day. In a house I used to own I used some white stuff I painted on over a -fiberglass mesh stuff. Am I remember it right? It's been a long time. What can I DIY over the black rubber to make it reflect the heat instead of soak it up? After the kitchen remodel, removing the false ceiling, the kitchen is noticeably hotter in summer.


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

I am sorry...I did not see the last couple of questions until now. I spent about $1k in repairs and I would never recommend doing that again. I wound up redoing the roof at a cost of $3500 I believe. The problem was the slope. They put in metal corner thingys and then the rubber membrane over it and bam...everything came out great, although this morning
I noticed a small spot in my ceiling and I hope it is from inside the house not leaking from the roof. I do wish I would have gotten a whole new roof. If the pitch was higher I could certainly use this attic for storage!!!


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RE: roof is pissing me off!! (photos)

Replacing the full roof each several years is actually very challenging to believe, yet Perhaps there is not any true motive for you to skepticism what you've got already been informed. Through the images, this indicates like the rubberized membrane layer seemed to be employed as being a plot and also h2o is actually doing the means underneath it especially in the valleys. Here is a link that might be useful Masters WA

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.masterswa.com


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