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snooping

Posted by searching4peace (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 14, 07 at 14:50

wanted to ask just how terrible is it that I have been looking at my husband's email for a few months now. I found a few emails last year right before we were married and before the birth of our baby (figure that timing out) and discovered that he had been email and had called a woman he met at his gym a couple of times. Most of it short and innocent except one email from him read something like 8:00 sharp, won't take no for an answer. He of course who can REMEMBER everything else couldn't remember what this was about. He has a business that he does try to get clients and he says this was his motive, but she had a boyfriend that owned the business he supposedly was targeting for his business but he says he didn't really like the guy that well (from seeing him at the gym I guess) anyway I found it after we were married for a few months in his old email and he acted like I was crazy for "overreacting" and that nothing was going on admitted that maybe it did cross lines and wouldn't "do it" again. I was satisfied with this (especially since I had his email password) but the 8:00 sharp won't take no for an answer thing bothered me and we fought over it for a little while and I finally either had to live with his answer (no proof of anything) or leave with my newborn baby on this evidence that they had spoken and emailed. This woman supposedly has left town with her boyfriend. I have started going to the gym where he goes so at least I might spot her if she is around. He described her to me. so I really don't think she is a threat now, not sure how much of any she really was then but it just has me very suspicious now and if he is doing something he shouldn't (so far just looking at porn pics. his buddies email him) I at least want to know so I can leave with a clear understanding knowledge of the truth!!!
So I looked at his email the other day and saw some pictures of a woman's (privates) and I emailed him something and titled it not a picture of A.W. (p word) but might find interesting anyway. Very dumb of me because this prompted him to change his email password. I can't think of why else on this particular day after all of this time he would up and change it. He must of at least "thought" I might have looked at his email. So I ended up pretending to be him and got the password switched back to what it was. So tomorrow or the next day when he checks his email and tries the new password it will not work, it will be the old one. I'm NOW scared that he will KNOW that I did this. Hoping that he just might think that it didn't go through somehow and then he will just change it again. Hopefully he won't take it any further, if he does, I think I will just come clean and tell him I've been snooping. ORRRR should I hire a hacker to retrieve new password and continue on this snooping path. Need help-probably professional help. Any of you ladies from the other forums--you know the situation, your input is always welcome!!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: snooping

I would dump anybody who reads my e-mails or listens to my messages.

This is plain wrong. I understand you are upset with him and he does sound like a jerk, but I think it is pretty terrible to read anybody's emails unless you accidentally come across one. This snooping path will take you nowhere.

Even if people don't do anything what needs to be hidden, they do have rights for privacy. Even jerks have rights to have private emails.

I would stop snooping right away. It does not solve anything.


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I think that if you start out in your marriage, with a complete lack of trust for your husband, then the road ahead is very rocky.

Why don't you trust your husband ?

Do you have feelings of jealousy ?

You need to stop reading his email, its an invasion of privacy. It is causing you so much angst, when its so unnecessary.

I suggest you put your energies into more worthwhile pursuits, like being the lovely person that your husband married, and wonderful mum to your child.

I would say that most people would not read their spouses emails.

Popi


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RE: snooping

If you want to try to make your marriage work, this is not the way to do it. A good marriage needs to have trust, and if you can't genuinely have it, you need to at least appear to have it, just to minimize the trauma and head off some of his abuse. (You won't be able to 'make' him be good.)

If you want to try to end your marriage and have evidence that will help you negotiate a more favorable settlement, this is not the way to do it. You're tipping your hand and making evidence of whatever may be going on harder to find.


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I would be more concerned with a husband that has a password on a computer that his wife does not have.

My husband is more than welcome to read my e-mails anytime. I guess I don't see it as an invasion of privacy at all; I don't e-mail anything really private... so what are these invasion of privacy things people are talking about? E-mail's not a personal diary or journal with secret thoughts, of course I would stay away from that. I'm just not understanding why e-mail is so sacred to some. My husband and I also both look at each other's regular mail. My husband even wants me to get rid of his junk stuff before passing his other stuff onto him. Again, what are we not supposed to open...the gas bill or reader's digest subscription renewal? If I see something personal I usually leave it for him just so he can have the fun of opening the letter, but really what does it matter as long as he gets it? I just don't get what the big deal is. If he can see and wash my dirty underwear, he can read my e-mails and vice versa.

By the way, though, I really don't think the e-mail porn thing is anything to worry about. I think most, if not all, guys exchange those dirty e-mails with each other. I could see that they could get out of hand, but an obscene picture from time to time is nothing to worry about. I think lots of woman take porn way too personal... almost all guys look; it's not about something you're lacking; it's just their animal instinct (in other words, they are the weaker sex).


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What a sad position to be in. A newly married woman, with a beautiful new baby, who should feel secure, and loved and safe in your marriage. Instead of enjoying what should be a very special time in your life, you find yourself married to a man who you do not trust. Instead of enjoying this beautiful and sacred time in your life, you are haunted by this fear that this man you loved and married, is untrustworthy. Why? Is he untrustworthy, or is there some reason you do not trust men?
Was your father unfaithful to your mom, or were you in a previous relationship with a married man? I agree with what Popi wrote. Use your energy towards being the lovely woman he married.

Ask him if he is an honorable man. Ask him if he has the integrity to be faithful to you, and to make you feel loved, and safe in your marriage.


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I would read my husband's email if I was suspicious him. I had a very bad first year with my husband because his x wife. She wanted him back, apologized for divorcing him for another man...it was just menopause, she said. Ha......I wasn't about to be moved back to the old neighborhood after leaving it as a happy bride. I did everything I could to get even and when my husband came home he said, I had a right to do everything I did. LOL


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RE: snooping

Searching4peace described on the other thread that she is treated poorly by her husband, so I assume that's the reason for snooping. I kind of see why she would do it, but I still consider reading e-mails to be a violation of privacy. If your spouse shares them with you, it is a different story, but if you do it secretly it is wrong.


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I guess people have different thoughts about the boundaries in marriage.

I would not open my DH's mail, nor he mine, either.


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But you do share the same home phone line, right? And you answer calls coming in for him, and he for you, right? And generally you both know who is calling who, you can both listen to the answering machine, check the caller id, and you probably even both know what most calls are about just from overhearing each other talk. Should there really be that much of a difference between the phone and mail?


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RE: snooping

searching4peace -

I, also, agree that sneaking into DH's email is a violation of privacy. I admit, though, that at times, I have been tempted. You may have justifiable reasons for being suspicious due to DH's behavior. You, changing back the password has just propelled you into the "limelight". If DH finds out, he now has good amunition to use against you. That is why you shouldn't do it. He can now spin everything around onto you.

Wondering, how would you feel if you knew for sure that the DH was up to something? Do you have a plan? How will he react when you confront him, if it is true? Are you ready for that?

If you want to know for sure, then you can hire a private investigator. People do this when they want to gather evidence to support their suspicions about infidelity. It can be costly so you need access to money. If you can't get your hands on money without DH finding out or you don't have it, can you borrow from family?

You can just remain suspicious and check the phones, his clothes, etc. and his comings and goings or do something proactive like hiring a private investigator.

Unfortunately, you can expend money and wind up with no proof. On the other hand, you can also find out for sure that something is going on. Then, what?

If he is fooling around, you will know for sure and if you are not ready to divorce, it will drive you out of your mind.


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I agree with everything Carla35 said on the matter.
E-mail is not some really private thing you're entitled to.

I also read my husband's mail,and he reads mine. It is my opinion that only the people who have things they want to hide are the ones concerned with Privacy.

You can share the same bed and have his children,but you cant read his mail? Somehow that doesnt seem right.


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popi, would your boundaries be so clear, if you started to become aware that something might be going on with DH? It's easy to respect boundaries, if you are certain that you have nothing to worry about. But what if you were a wife whose instincts told her something was going on? Would you honor those same boundaries?


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It is OK to read each other mail and each other e-mails if you do it openly. However if you do it while your spouse does not know about it, it is a different story. It is not a violation of privacy if he knows about it. He does not though! As some other posters said if you are snooping with intention to find some evidence of infidelity to file for divorce, maybe it is justifiable but still it would be better to hire private detective.


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RE: changed my mind, maybe...

Now when I thought for a minute, maybe I am wrong.

My ex-husband just left his second wife for another woman who he knew for a long time (friend's wife) and who was coming to their house on numerous ocassions. There were obviously emails and phone calls and other signs all along, but his wife had no clue. So when he announced it to her, she was devastated and still is. First of all they work together so now she had to immidatelly leave her job with no other job in prospects. She is shocked that it was all under her nose for a long time and she had no clue. My ex-mother in-law, whom i am very close to, said his wife wished now that she had a suspicion so she would be financially and emotionally prepared for a blow. So maybe if she would snoop around, she would know.

My BF's ex-wife left him unexpectedly however she had it planned for a long time. He had no clue but after she left, he found numerous signs of what was going on-including stuff on a family computer, the fact that she rented another place so she could move, receipts etc. If he would snoop around, he would be at least prepared. So I guess maybe i am wrong...


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I get all of the points. I would gladly share my emails with him, he could care less what I do, or at least would NEVER show that he did. I do not trust him, I know that is a very big negative when there are already so many negatives to deal with. I thought about the email thing last night on my own and maybe just the idea now of getting caught by changing the pw back but it at least jolted me into knowing that it is wrong, it may be wrong on his part to HAVE TO HAVE THE PRIVACY- privacy for what?? It is however, wrong to snoop and the one question above presented was I prepared to "do" something about what I did find. Until I know the answer to that it is most definitely best that I don't snoop and actually find something. I agree, there are other ways and things usually do get found out eventually. There is a saying that I heard somewhere like what doesn't come out in the wash comes out in the rinse, I suppose this is true. I can't imagine anyone, not even he could live a lie for a long length of time. I felt guilty all night about what I had done and had been doing, for my sake really, not even his, I will stop.


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RE: snooping

Tough situation, to be sure -
Trust is the responsibility of both partners - 100% your responsibility to trust, 100% his responsibility to be trustworthy and vsvsa.

That said, here's a suggestion. Just DECIDE today that you are going to stop being a super sleuth - that's just plain exhausting. It doesn't develop into anything good. If there is information to be found out, do so the old fashioned way - talk. Instincts are good, and you should listen to them, but you should also weigh that with listening to him -

If there is funny business, you'll find out eventually. Until then, consider doing your part to make it a postive, open, talking, truthful (not secretive) relationship.

Good luck


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You know this post reminds me of a discussion I was having with an acquaintance friend of mine just a couple weeks ago. She was talking about her daughter, you know normal teenager stuff and she mentioned she read her daugther's diary. I think I almost gasped out loud; thankfully, though, as she talked further I understood her invasion. Her daughter was currently going through the process of maybe being diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and there had been serious talks of suicide and such. Of course I understood at that point where the mother was coming from and thought it was not only her right, but her duty to keep on top of her daughter's thougths no matter how personal they may be. There are times when things are more important than privacy.

I guess I just really don't understand privacy issues between spouses. I in no way expect my hsuband to tell me everything... I seriously don't want to hear about the old girlfriend dream my husband had last night last night or hear his thoughts on his sexy co-worker's new boob job, but I really can't imagine anything in the mail (e-mail or phone) that I could not know about. And, if there was something, that should be kept private in those avenues... chances are those 'private' things are things that I REALLY, REALLY do and should need to know about.. be it a suicide thought, a gambling or porn problem, or an affair.

If anyone seriously thinks their husband maybe having an affair, they owe it to themselves and their children to find out for sure. It's not just financial issues, but you could be dealing with serious health issues of STD's and even AIDS. I'm not sure why hiring a PI isn't really considered an invasion of privacy but checking out your husband's computer activity is a big no no. There's trust and openness in a marraige, but there can also be just down right stupidity. If you have a hunch, and generally aren't a jealous nuerotic type of person, chances are you may be on to something that really needs to be looked into.

I hope the OP is just paranoid and that her husband isn't fooling around, but I just don't know enough about the whole situation to tell her she's the bad guy for invading his privacy. If she followed one day and it lead her to to a hotel and she caught him in bed with another woman... would she still be the bad one for not trusting in him and invading his privacy by 'following' him?


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If he's a doctor, lawyer. or other business/professional person that corresponds from home I'm in favor of confidential accounts for those purposes and would consider that confidentiality inviolable. Typical personal e-mail accounts in the household, no.


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Reading all of this makes me think about animals and how we as humans will observe someone and make statements like someone acting like an animal when in reality WE are the animals and seems as though some of the things they (animals) do that seem primative they mirror us humans. Maybe men don't come up from behind and grab our necks in their mouths like the Lion and mount us, (some of us wish they would) but it sure feels like in their "human" way they are NO different than a real animal!!! Wondering these days what our differences are other than a little more advanced brain and posable thumbs! Cynical thinking this afternoon. Sorry.


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I can understand the points about the emails, brought up by Carla and Bnicebkind.

I guess I don't want to be a person who reads other people's mail and emails, thats just the way I am. But maybe that would change if I had the suspicions of an affair going on. If this happens I will let you know !

You have got me thinking now !

P


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Thing is, nobody likes a snoop. From time-to-time, I ask my SO if I can look in her purse for something. Sometimes she asks if she can look in my wallet for something. The difference is in the courtesy of asking. I would NEVER look in her purse without asking. If she found me doing so, I would expect an upbraiding. If I found her looking in my wallet without asking, it would feel insulted. People do have different ideas of appropriate boundaries. These appear to be ours. Trust and courtesy are where its at, in my opinion. If we didn't have both of those, I don't think we would stay together.

Back to the OP....if I became suspicious of inappropriate behavior from a spouse (or my SO) I'd put it on the table right away. Without trust, nothing else matters. That's not a cloud I would live under. I would resolve it or leave.


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Well,now I can see the side of popi and asolo that if the person doesnt know it may seem wrong.
My own husband and I have always had an "Open door policy" regarding the mail and stuff though.I guess if we didnt,and I snooped,I would feel guilty to some degree.

I DO believe in that saying that if "You go looking for trouble you usually find it". But,if I had a true feeling my husband was up to no good,I dont think I'd feel bad about snooping.
I guess the question is,Does Op have a true gut feeling something is going on? I have never been one to deny my instincts,they have never steered me wrong.


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I was once married to woman who was big on intuition and "instincts". A source of some pride within her, actually. Unfortunately, what it actually was was inherent baseless jealousy and suspicion with zero basis in reality. I posted elsewhere that I might as well have actually done all the things she was suspicious of my doing because the price I paid was the same. We divorced. I was the instigator. No way I was going to go on living with daily interrogation, suspicion, and accusation. Really impossible.

Not saying that's like you. Just saying "gut feelings" of many people are way off the mark. And when they're wrong, they can poison everything.


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There are instincts and then there is PARANOIA.Paranoia is thinking something is going on with no real evidence to support those feelings and thinking everyone is out to get you.
Instincts,for me anyways,is getting a bad feeling because someone is acting out of character or doing something they wouldnt normally do.
An example for me is~ anytime I'd go to my parent's house,even if they tried hard to hide it from me and act like all was dandy,I could sense they were fighting.Later I'd ask my mom and she say,"How did you know?"
Just because they were acting weird.Bad vibes.

I have never had a bad feeling yet about my husband.I'm sorry you had a bad exprience with someone excusing you of everything.I agree that that kind of paranoid obsession can be poison.


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Asolo said....

.if I became suspicious of inappropriate behavior from a spouse (or my SO) I'd put it on the table right away. Without trust, nothing else matters. That's not a cloud I would live under. I would resolve it or leave.

Well said.


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I think many who are suspicious "put it on the table". And I imagine in the vast majority of those, there is a whole lot of denying going on. I imagine that those who admit it, are the those who want to move in with the person they are involved with. I imagine that the ones who deny it either are innocent, or playing around and have no intention at this point of tearing apart their life and marriage, or of actually wanting to be with the person they are involved with.


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That is true Benicebekind.If someone is cheating (which in a way is already lying) then of course they will lie to cover their tracks and deny it.


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Put what on the table? Hopefully some kind of real proof of an affair (like copies of some printed out e-mails or cell phone records or pictures of them in the act). Otherwise, I'm sure in most situations all you're doing is informing your spouse of your suspicions so they will be able to cover their tracks better. I think if you check real statistics about confronting spouses having affairs only like 5% come clean and that's often even with some evidence. Cheating spouses almost always deny it.

Bottom line, if your relationship is such that your spouse is cheating, it think it's gonna take more than putting it all on the table.


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My suspicion...my feelings of possible betrayal...are what would go "on the table" for discussion. They would be the "cloud" I would be unwilling to continue with.

If there was "evidence", it wouldn't be a discussion. It would be an announcement.

I understand Carla's point. Even the suspicion is terrible. And cheaters, like errant children and felons, almost always deny. And the suspicion is nearly as toxic as the actual betrayal. Ugly topic, isn't it?


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You can "announce" all you want, but WHO owns up to the ultimate betrayal?? Most everyone's instinct is to lie. Even if you don't care if you lose this person or not, you still don't #1 want to deal with the confrontation of it, and #2 if you suffer from NPD you wouldn't want your peers to know you were a rotten cheater. So..... mine would never come clean and announce anything. I could find him on top of a woman and he would deny deny deny! So what is WORSE- the cheater or the nosey privacy invader???


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If the trust has gone from the marriage, then it doesn't matter who is worse. No trust, no marriage.


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No trust, no anything. Very big deal. And very hard to repair when broken.


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RE: snooping

The only way to stop the suspicions is to find out for sure. You have other issues with the DH besides this, right? Even if you find out that DH is not "cheating" at the present time, you still suffer in the relationship. If you find out for sure that he is "cheating" you can use it against him. Thinking rationally, yes, it can be applied to a reason for divorce. But, so what? If you live in the USA, equitable distribution is the way most states deal with divorce. Fifty/fifty on the property, if you have kids you get child support and if the spouse (cheater) makes a lot more money, depending on how long you have been married you might be getting some alimony. If DH makes good money, then it can financially work out in your favor. That is, of course, if you really want to end the marriage. If you don't want to end the marriage, then what is the point? Finding out now that he cheats will give you some leverage. You can call him the bad guy and he won't be able to argue his way out of it. It will be a horrible situation.

Are you sure you really want to know?


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And if you should learn you were totally mistaken, you'll still be suspicious. Before long, something else will come up and you'll go 'round again. How to break the cycle?


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here's how you break it. You sit down with spouse, and say, I have a problem. i don't trust you. I need your help. Let's try something - transparency. You be transparent with me, I'll be transparent with you. I promise not to snoop, but if i ask you to show me, will you agree to do so? Also, Please offer me any information you can without me asking so that i can be comforted. A trustworthy, loving spouse will hopefully be open to a path towards change, especially if you do your part to stop the snooping.

Then, after a certain amount of time of transparency exercises, it is on the distrusting spouses side to DECIDE to trust. it is as simple as an overnight decision to trust the other person. Who wants to live a life of crazed suspicion? If the transparency eases your mind, then take it the next step and decide to stop. trust that if there is truth, you will be shown that when it is necessary.

It is the responsibility of both to create trust. You can only be in control of your part. If you are incapable of trusting, either because the other party is truly untrustworthy, or because you are not willing to trust, then your relationship will be unhealthy and miserable.


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Hackers? Private investigators? Is this is a made for TV movie? Sit down and talk it out. It can only go two ways: either he is cheating or the wife is paranoid. Wait, there's a third option: both!

Once when I was searching for a piece of paper to take a phone message, I happened to open my then-husband's brief case. I found out that he was not divorced from his previous wife and also a love letter to him from another man! When we talked about this, he said I was in the wrong for snooping! I don't think so.


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