"....the only assett is the house and in todays market he owes way more than it's worth. So it's more a matter of getting rid of it even at a loss to get out from under the loan..."

Umm....do you know what you've said here? Even if he sells "at a loss" he does NOT get "out from under the loan". He will still owe the balance.

In this post and others you've described a financial mess that will never change. I hope he's making good money at what he does. Sounds to me as if you're broke with him or broke without him. Except for being relieved of the aggravation, what's the difference? A roof over your head that you don't even own?

Not only don't you know what your financial future will be on the upside, you don't know what you're legally obligated for right now.

Pretty amazing.

Yes Asolo,
It is pretty amazing! I know where I stand as far as the tax liabilty. I'm ok there and not ivolved in that at all. The house he bought a few yrs before we married but I think that is a joint asset now, however I may have forfitted any rights to it by leaving, and thats ok I knew that was a possibility but had to get out.

I am just now really wanting to communicate with Dh and find out what is going on with him as far as being able to finish the house we bought, or just get rid of it. Take care of his tax stuff so he can focus on saving as much as poss for the next 15 year.s. I know what I have & its not much but I would be able to make it. Now I am trying to really dump allmy extra into ira/403b.

I have no idea what he is doing?

-Cat

"I am trying to really dump allmy extra into ira/403b."

These are entirely separate programs with different qualifications and limits. You can't just "dump all your extra" into them.

From what you've written so far, I have no confidence at all that you have any understanding of what your assets and liabilities are or may be or what your legal standing may be vis-a-vis any particular issue. It's almost like you're making it up as you go. Don't know what means but I'm out of gas with this. Do hope you find some peace before you're done.

I'm sorry let me clarify. I do understand the limits of these two programs and am contributing the maximum allowable directly from my paycheck.

I know I am not liable for DH's tax debt I have confirmed with a tax attorney. What I don't know is the house that SS is living in is part mine or not?

One attorney told me because of our length of marriage it was now half mine, but DH bought it two years before we married. Frankly I don't care about whether I'm entitled to that house or not, it doesn't affect me, I don't want to be in DH's life for his possible assets. I would like for us to be able to go into reitrement down the road not in debt and able to live comfortably.

What I would like to happen is DH get rid of it, even if we have to shell out a few bucks or take a slight loss. Sell it to SS for what he/we owe on it.

I guess I need to clarify what I want is to have DH fully disclose to me what he is planning on doing with regards to the house, his tax stuff and be honest with me about the whole big hairy mess so we can plan for the future. And I would like to have an equal say in it or for him to not make big decisions about this stuff without us discussing and planning together because it affects us both, not just him.

Right now I am afraid if something happended to DH and he couldn't work I would not have enough to provide for us both, especially if his medical care exceeded our insurance limitations.

I'm not sure what he makes. He is self employed and it varies, kind of feast or famine. He works very hard, pays the bills, I know that but that's it..

~Cat

"What I want? Love, Stability, comfort, security. "

I don't know if you realize when you wrote this, but stability and security are synonyms. Comfort is nearly synonymous with them as well.

I understand you are afraid to find out how bad it really is. My advice? Find out now. Worrying about it and procrastinating will not make it any better. You're torturing yourself.

DH is feeling guilty. So he's trying to put the guilt on you "why do you care, you're leaving me anyway". This is a common method of distraction. Keep you thinking/acting on that statement rather than dealing with what's really going on.

Cat, straighten your spine and get the lawyer to tell you what your interest is legally in this house. Then, if you can get your name off of it, do so immediately. If it's 1/2 yours, get an eviction notice drawn up for SS. I assume you do not have a rental agreement from him? Call the police and get him thrown out. Then tell DH his son can move back in, but DH has to re-finance under his name only.

Untangle yourself from this mess. When you are completely on your own two feet, look at it objectively and see if there is enough to rebuild with.

If you are upside down on the house, it's not an asset. It's an expense. Houses are only assets if they are making you money, thus they are rarely on that side of the balance sheet. You finding out what is of monetary value in your relationship/asset holdings is not being greedy or involved only for those things. It's being fiscally responsible.

Don't wait Cat. Don't wait. Please don't wait. If you value yourself, if you value him, start bailing water now. If he doesn't pick up a bucket to help you, he obviously doesn't care if you drown. Which would be sad. But what would be even more sad is finding it out after 5 more years have passed.

I hear what you're saying. My name is not on the house, never has been. DH refused to do a rental agreement with his son, he felt very insulted that I asked him too.

" If he doesn't pick up a bucket to help you, he obviously doesn't care if you drown. Which would be sad. But what would be even more sad is finding it out after 5 more years have passed."

Totally agree with you on this. Think I'm afraid to know but I'm starting back to school myself and really feel I need to have things resolved one way or another to be able to focus on moving forward. Yes when he does that it totally
putss me on a guilt trip. The house is an expense one the DH is still paying in addition to bad credit reports every time son is late on his rent. The original plan before SS moved in with us was to sell it, even if we had to take somewhat of a loss, so we got this fixer upper, paid cash for it with plans of fixing it, living there for a few yr.s and flipping it or keeping for rental income if the market was still tanked.

I told him this am, we needed to sit and talk about things tonight, as I tried to broach it this am but he was busy preparing for the workday..we'll see.

~Cat

Cat, best of luck tonight. You are not alone! I'll be thinking of you :)

"The house is an expense one the DH is still paying in addition to bad credit reports every time son is late on his rent. "

You know those bad credit reports are your HUSBAND's (and yours), not your SS's....

Yes, I do. Which is partly why this bothers me so much.
SS's is shot, he's a repossession of vehicle, and and BK that he defaulted on. But now that there have been so many late car pyts every one reports to DH's credit as a co signer. His is shot too. So far it has not affected me as I have not signed on anything joint with DH except my car and it's paid on time.

But yes, I know and he knows. That's why I don't know why he has such a difficult time saying know to SS.

~Cat

Cat~~~

I have not been on this site for a looooong time, so thought that tonight I'd just check to see if you happen to still be writing on here and "trying" to hold on to what is clearly not a marriage. WHY? Are you afraid of living alone? Believe me from a prior relationship of mine, you will feel MUCH better about yourself and your health will be out from under all of that stress you permitting him to put you through, if you put a stop to this merry-go-round, that you are trying to call a "marriage"....clearly, it is not.

If he has financial and tax problems, your assets might not be protected as you think they are. As his legal wife, you can be held responsible if you have ANYTHING in your joint names (or at least that is how it is in my state).

The plain fact is that he will NEVER choose you over his son!!!! Realize that...cut your losses, and move on!!! and do it NOW!, while you still have a shread of dignity left. He is an emotional abuser, so why do you put up with it any longer? Didn't you mention that you had parents?....if so, move near them and I am sure they will give you the support you are needing at this time.

I hate to be so blunt....but now is the time!!!! believe it! Good Luck

Cat, I have to say I agree 100% with Phoggie. I really hope you can figure out what it is that is making you stay in this abusive relationship so that you can move on. It seems to me that you are a capable, intelligent, about-to-be middle-aged woman. This is the prime of your life. Enjoy it!!!!!!!

DH has worked well past 11pm the past two nights so I was only able to speak to him briefly,so not all I wanted but put this out there;
I have contacted a tax atty & he will meet with you one of these three days to discuss your situation and how to resolve it. I told him I had discussed his sit in detail with atty and though he was a bit surprised he has agreed to go Tues even. I went to sleep and left it there for a few days. I will ask him to fully disclose the rest of it to me over the weekend and see how he reacts. Gotta run, try to check in from work later. Busy, busy this week cancer never takes break-it sucks, but job security I suppose until the new health plan takes effect.

-Cat

honestly based on your previous posts, and I have been following your life story, I assumed you left him. i am surprised you are still together. I have no judgement in regards to you staying, i stay myself when i need to leave, but i don't think it is going to get better. I am shocked to learn that SS still lives in that hosue but you live in someone else's place. i think even if you do not plan to divorce, you must see your attorney and figure out what to do. moving closer to your son and parents would be the way to go.

you keep saying he is a kind man, but he is not. you love him and he seems nice, but he is not a kind man, judging by his behavior towards you, he is not a kind person.

Goos news Cat --
But I'd ALSO get a report from the attorneys just to be sure the story you get from Hubby is truthful and complete.

Yes one, LEAVE.
He has made it clear he isn't going to change. Porn itself isn't the problem and you have articulated that very well. The problem is yours according to him and since HE is the problem and isn't open to any sort of change or attending to your needs as a women, well there you go.
Run, don't walk to the divorce attorney. I'm sorry its harsh but that's my gut feeling here. You are young, chalk this up to a poor choice and get on with your life. Still attend counseling so you can spot these red flags before you marry the same guy again. Spoiled? I'd say so.

HUH??? And your situation is better than hers in what way?

If you registered today and wrote this thread, along with all your others, people here would call you a troll and question the truth of your post like they always do. I guess they are kind because they know you being a regular here. You have sat "waiting and seeing" for........how long? Offering yourself to his use and disposal. What advice is this you have for someone else?

I don't want to sound harsh Cat, but when I read your response (in italics above from the other thread) I had the same response/feeling that Thermometer expressed.

"Huh???"

Listen to yourself Cat. I don't think you really need advice. I think you already know.

Best wishes.

Advice:
Easy to dish out;
not so easy to take...

Yes I suppose it IS easier to dish out than to take. And as I posted it I

a. Wondered the same thing and
B. Thought I wonder how many here feel I have nothing useful to contribute to anyones posts given my current life situation.

Guess that answers that question.

However let me point out this poster has one year in, so I still stand that she would be better off to leave him. Not saying I wouldn't be better off fdoing the same and had I known at one year in it was going to turn out like this..well hindsight is 20:20.

I don't think anyone sugarcoats it for me because I've been posting here awhile, I would hope everyone would be comfortable telling me as they see it.

As far as the appointmet, I am gonig with, so I won't be hearing anything second hand.

~Cat

Of course we can contribute to anything even if we make mistakes in our own life. i just wish you take your own advice. i hate thinking of you living this way, you don't even have your place to live. when you are single, at least you know it is yours, owned or rented place. you don't even have that. I just don't see the point. you are married yet lived 8 years in a house that never even belonged to you and now you live in someone else's place. at least being single you would have your name on things. and at 45 you can still find someone else if you don't want to be alone. ;)

Thank you Finedreams. I'm not happy with the way the living situation shook out either. I still feel I was pushed out of our home-even though I eventually chose to leave-rather than him telling SS to get his own place. Now I am not near any of my friends and SS is living in our home, fixing it up the way he wants it(I wasn't allowed to paint the walls!). I recognize I am still resentful over it. Not sure if it's worth mentioning to DH or not. I'm not sure we could discuss this without it turning ugly.

I really feel strongly that I want to lay out all my cards on the table to DH one last time.

I started with the Tax stuff, now onto the whole house debacle plus the fixer upper is next. I am trying to do it kindly with him ,his pride is easily hurt. I think the sticking point is going to be he will not want to stop giving SS so much $ on a regular basis.

Lets face it the kids have a LOT more time to sock money away than we do. Not saying never help but if you give it all away for piddly stuff all the time when there is an emergency there is nothing left to give.

And he certainly doesn't want to "take orders" from me. Though that will not be how I put it to him, more
like "Hey, lets both lay it all on the line here, I want to know exactly whats going on money wise(he already knows what I earn and where it goes) and what we can do to plan for the future together and if he is not willing to disclose everything to me and be completely honest then what can I do, but my own thing and get on with it. I think I'll know if his is not being totally forthcoming as when he feels on the spot and doesn't want to discuss he becomes very defensive and either walks away or blows up about something I did that upset him to put me on the defensive. I'm hoping for a better response if I approach gently & in a positive way. I did that last night and it worked out ok but no "hot buttons" were addressed.

I'm not concerned about being alone, really I spend a lot of time alone as he works long hours and goes out of town for his job often through our entire marriage. I have my animals to take care of and I stay pretty busy. Just wish we could get past it all and could either sell SS the house so we could get a house of our own and have a normal married life. You know, travel, have fun, make plans. Just enjoy being together-which we do when all the rest isn't pressing down on us..

~Cat

be careful with pension plan. in my state you would have to give half of what you saved in case of divorce. my SO gave his X half of a large amount of pension plan that he contributed since young age. his ex moved out with TOM, she never paid for pension plan because she comes from rich family and her parents are leaving her several millions of dollars, she figured she can live on that. but she always encouraged SO to put more and more aside for retiremnent so they both can live comfortably.

now he knows why she encoraged him, she kept enouraguing him while having an afair wiht the same guy she moved out with. he gave it all up by our state law.

unless you have a prenup, be careful, you put so much money in 401,403, you will lose a half of it. and since DH has no savings, you'll get nothing from him. worry about your old age. your name is not on the house, you'll get nothing out if it.

Well, we talked a little last night. DH just gets so defensive when I question ANYTHING. It makes it really hard for me to talk with him. Anyway we were watching TV and he said he wished he had a cabin to go up north too ( my family has a cabin that we all share and DH & I go up a lot, several times a yr, however I did stop lending it to SS's because I got tired of being used for babysitting and my cabin yet having no place or rights in the family). I said yes, and I would like a little shack in the keys where I could go in the winter. That opened the door, he said he was just struggling to pay the bills. I said that we needed a good financial plan to get where we want to go. He said he just didn't believe in that, how can you make a plan when you don't have any money to get ahead. I disagreed and said how do you think people get ahead? They make a plan, a budget and stick to it and work towards it. He was negative about that.

I asked him why wasn't what I wanted important to him also? I told him I did not want to winter where it is warm why couldn't we stay up here in spring/summer/fall and winter south? (Not meaning now but in the future)he cited he would be unable to find work dsown there at his age-mid 50's. I said even if you worked anywhere at a hardware store whatever I could handle the rest but NOT supporting everyone that you are supporting now. He said it wasn't as much as I thought it was and so I asked him how much, no answer. I asked him how long SS was going to be staying in the house, he said he didn't know that he was fixing it up. I asked if it was ready to be put up for sale he said no. I asked when would it be and he said he didn't know. I told DH I felt he was not being completely honest with me which he denied. He did tell me he was suprised I hadn't gone down south for the winter because I talked about it so much the past 3 yr.s I said I wanted to but I have to have job 1st as I carry our health insurance, I can't just up and leave without a job. I asked him why he was so negative about that and he said because he would miss me.

I told him I wanted to go and spend time with my son, couldn't he understand that? He sees his kids a lot and even the one out of state has been back 3 times this yr and DH just went out to his place a month ago. I have seen my son once the past yr. He said of course he understood and I should just go. I told him when he pulls that guilt trip stuff it makes me feel really bad. He denied he was doing that.

I said "Of course I would miss you too but you said you would come visit me. You are self employed and make your own schedule, how different is it from when you have to travel for your job?" He said he didn't travel that much and for that long, true but he has been gone for 2-3 weeks at a time. He said I could have came to the job site and visited him. I said "Really? What would I do with the dogs and what about my job?-I work too!"

We just totally were not on the same page. I told him if he wanted a future with me he needed to be completely honest about what's going on, he said he was. He mentioned if we both left state he would lose everything, I asked him what was everything, seriously what assets do you have? None, aside from his customer base that is slowly going away due to either age or econimc reasons.

So I never got a clear answer on how long SS is staying inthe house, or when & if he intends to put it up for sale. He mentioned letting it go into forclosure again & I told him I felt that was extremely foolish to do at his age but he should consult a professional before doing something so drastic. I asked him how long he could keep up paying part of the house payt for SS and the rent here if he was so broke and he told me he isn't paying rent for this place but rather doing work for in exchange. Several months ago he told me the rent here was $700. I asked him if SS would be interested in just purchasing the home for what is owed on it and he said no. So it is obvious even though we married two years after he bought this house he feels I have no rights or say so in regards to it. I wish I could just get over my anger about the whole house thing and get past it. I feel like if he ere completly honest with me I might be able to but because he is so evasive and negative about any of my suggestions it is so difficult to let that anger go.

So we are going to the Tax atty this week, I'm not sure how it will go but I'm sure DH will be relieved to deal with it. But as far as the rest of it towards the end of the conversation when I was asking what the plan was with selling the house and how could we make a plan going forward if we can't even talk about that he told me "don't push it". Meeaning talking about SS in the house , buying it, or leaving it was not an option any longer. Sigh.

Today I am left feeling very frustrated and wonder if the situation were completely reversed with DH put up with this from me? I'm having surgery on my knee shortly and part of me feels like cancelling and just leaving and doing it later when my life is more stable. Sorry for the length of the post, just trying to remember it all, even though it was only a 20 min conversation, when he tells me to not push it, that's the warning sign he is about to blow so I stopped but the conversation ended with me feeling very unsettled.

~Cat

Adn now I feel bad. DH was going over to the house and once again asked me to go. He has asked me several times the past month or so & I've declined. I told him today, "No, I am not going to that house. It would just make everyone uncomfortable." He said, "it's not going to make anyone uncomfortable." I said "Yes it will, that is why I left." He kind of shook his head and walked away. He came back to give me a kiss goodbye & I asked when he was going to be home and he said he wasn't sure he wanted to spend some time with GS which is totally fine with me, I just said let me know so I can have dinner ready, he said ok and left. Now, I know I hurt his feelings and that was not my intention but it WOULD be very uncomfortable for me and I'm sure for SS too.

I think DH feels if he can just get me over there and show me all the cool stuff/improvements SS made to the house and get me to spend time with GS etc everything will fall back to normal. But in reality it will just piss me off more because when we lived there I wasn't allowed to paint the walls, but now the walls have been painted new counters and carpet installed..no, I can't do it.

But I do feel badly he has hurt feelings about it :0(

`Cat

Not to quibble Catlettuce, but "I don't know" sounds like a very honest answer to me.
I can see why you don't like that answer, but it seems 100% truthful.

And since he's self-employed, financial questions like "What's our income? What can we afford?" just aren't that simple to answer like they would be with a steady paycheck. Plus, somehow, I expect those kind of questions feel quite a bit more personal -- more judgement-loaded.

That doesn't help you, I know, but maybe it puts Hubby's responses in a better light.

Yes it does help Sweeby,
Thank you.

Although I didn't ask him what we could afford. I was speaking more in terms of what are you doing with this house and how long can you keep helping to support your grown son when we can't even finish the house we bought.

Also I wish he would think how it would make me feel to go over there and see all the nice new updates that I wanted to do for so long but he always said no it would decrease the value to paint the walls or get new counters in the next house, but not even 3 days after we left he told ss it was ok to paint.

And I don't want to go where I'm not welcome. His kids have no use for me unless they want to borrow the cabin or something I have. I seriously never hear from them. And they never even ask me directly they ask dh if they can use/borrow whatever of mine they want. So after many years of giving til it hurts with no reciprical frienship even, I'm done.

But I don't want to hurt DH. Ss is fine with it & so am I. So I wish dh would just let that fantasy of us being one big happy blended family go.

Cat

Cat....I am going to be very blunt.....but in the last two posts you made, you felt "so sorry" about hurting your H...but why in the heck to you really care about hurting HIM?....my gosh, girl, how many, many, many times has he hurt YOU? Now is not the time to show him pity...it is time to think about where you are headed in this marriage, (if you want to call it that). If you don't want to divorce him, at least separate yourselves from each other's lives. This constant tension and stress is killing you...is that what you want for your own family?
Just listen to your own posts...they are filled with so much unhappiness that no one needs to endure....MOVE ON! and best of luck!

Cat, I do respect your opinion and your personal situation does not detract from your good advice where others are concerned. Of course we do not know the whole picture or all of the nuances of your relationship. Sometimes it's the little things that really really matter.

I'm just concerned for you. Your husband may be a really good man, one who really loves you. And being together for so long... it's harder to walk away. I get that.

Perhaps you could disengage financially and legally, and go back to dating? If you really love one another?

I sense a lot of misrepresentation ($700 for rent/trade for rent) and that kind of unwillingness to be a "team" is something I could not (personally) live with.

You seem so nice. And I really hope you take care of yourself.

"Also I wish he would think how it would make me feel to go over there and see all the nice new updates that I wanted to do for so long but he always said no it would decrease the value to paint the walls or get new counters in the next house, but not even 3 days after we left he told ss it was ok to paint."
You know, hurt his feelings or not, you should tell him that. You can say, "DH, for years I wanted to repaint, get new counters and fix up the house when I was living in it, so I could enjoy the improvements. You always told me "no". Now you want me to go over and look at the improvements you approved days after I moved out. Don't you think I would find that hurtful?"
As far as not knowing what his income is, perhaps that is so, but he must have a fair idea of what his expenses are and how much he needs to earn to cover them. Not having some kind of plan and just letting it all drift is a surefire way to the poorhouse. You are entirely right when you point out that people who get ahead plan, budget, then work towards it.
Frankly, I think it's time you stopped caring about his feelings and whether he's hurt or not. Clearly he doesn't give a toss about YOUR feelings, or he wouldn't even suggest you going over to see the improvements YOU weren't allowed to have in the house where HE let the situation become so intolerable to you that you felt you had to leave. Insisting you play happy families with people who wreck your stuff and terrorise your pets is also not very caring towards YOU. Using "blowing up" as a tool to shut you up when you start telling him there are problems is not caring about YOU.
Why you think this man loves you is beyond me. Clearly you are way down on his list and while you say "oh, he must love me, he looked after me when I was sick," I also remember you posting that he was pretty unpleasant about you not working while you were sick and not having an income.

You all and she keep pointing out various things he does or says, but everyone seems to ignore what those things mean. He has told her over and over and over what she means to him and her place in his life. She just keeps harping on the superficial statements and behaviors instead of examining their meaning. He never meant for the house to be hers or for her to feel at home in it. It was his son's house all the long, intended for him. That's why "SHE" made "HIM" uncomfortable there. That's why she was not allowed to make improvements. It may be that the house belonged to the son all the long, but she's so in the dark about this man and his finances that she knows nothing about that and just assumed it was his house. Whether it belonged to the son or not, it was promised to him, and nothing she did or wanted to do would change that, not even temporarily. Her husband has not been inconsiderate of her feelings. He has been himself - the person he keeps telling her he is. She means nothing to him. She is not getting the message from the numerous ways that he says and shows it to her. She translates all of it to love because "oowee, he changed my oil!"

She made some kind of complaint, and his response was to shut her up with some kind of remark about all she needs to do is show more boobs. I don't remember the statement precisely but that's the gist of it. I also remember her complaining that he ignores her needs in bed and ignores her complaints/pleas about it, while he's obsessed with her breasts. There's no telling how much/often he makes those kinds of sexist/misogynistic remarks, and she allows herself to be viewed as nothing but a sex object, while laughing at his sexist jokes. Yep, it's all real funny. Even funnier that she advises other women what to do about their sorry circumstances or advises them to leave their husband.

"she allows herself to be viewed as nothing but a sex object, while laughing at his sexist jokes"

huh? I don't feel I "allow" it, I verbalize complaint and confront him on it every time he has done this. I certainly don't laugh at his sexist jokes.

The rest of your post Thermometer although quite unkind in tone is pretty insightful to me. I will however try to refrain from commenting on anyone elses posts since a few have voiced that they feel it is not my place to do so currently.

Thanks a bunch, you've made it crystal clear I've not much to contribute to anyone else about anything now.

~Cat

Cat, you're not getting my message like you don't get your husband's message. I'm not talking about anything being your place. For that matter, it's not my place to police these boards and determine anyone's place or contribution to it. I'm talking about the hypocracy of advising people when you are in a rather compromising situation yourself. You have repeatedly stated you aren't going to do anything and just wait and see what he does or what happens or what materializes. Each time, you've said that in the midst of posting about yet another affront to your dignity and position as his wife. Moreover, you turned this thread into being about his finances, which he keeps from you and refuses to discuss, while thinking you're going to get him to discuss it. What for, is what I don't understand. What difference does it make after all these years you have been married and putting up with it? You don't do anything about your own life, so how can you tell others what to do? You don't understand you will never get what you want from him, and none of it is too much to ask but he is not capable. You don't understand what he continuously tells you because he doesn't spell it out in "quite unkind in tone." Now your feelings are hurt because I spelled it out. I'm not crazy about your boobs, so I have no interest in stringing you along like he does. Speaking of which, you did so laugh at it. You'll have to find the thread to prove me wrong, but it seems to me you blew off any assertions that his statement was insulting and he only meant it jokingly.

Thermometer,
I think I am getting your message loud and clear
. "I'm talking about the hypocracy of advising people when you are in a rather compromising situation yourself"

I think that could apply to most here because most of us are here for support/advice relating to issues in our marriage. We can't all be as perfect as you are. If so, there would be no need for this board.

"Speaking of which, you did so laugh at it. You'll have to find the thread to prove me wrong, but it seems to me you blew off any assertions that his statement was insulting and he only meant it jokingly."

I think you are taking it out of context. I may not remember word for word and I am not going to take the time to look it up, however I was saying that when i confronted him about that HE said he was joking. I did not & do not find it funny, nor did I laugh about it.

I am doing something about my own life, I am attending counseling and trying to see if there is some way to repair my marriage, if not so be it. I DO get what you are saying, and perhaps you are correct that I won't get what I want from him. I realize it's down to the wire. That's why I am grateful to be able to come here and talk about whats going on so I can get others feedback-even yours.

However if I read a post from someone in the same position as me only they are in just a year as opposed to 10 in the relationship I WILL tell them what I think because I CAN EMPATHIZE with him/her because I am there too. And if you think I'm a hypocrit for daring to answer a post when my own life is in turmoil at the moment, well frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

~Cat

"You all and she keep pointing out various things he does or says, but everyone seems to ignore what those things mean. He has told her over and over and over what she means to him and her place in his life. She just keeps harping on the superficial statements and behaviors instead of examining their meaning. He never meant for the house to be hers or for her to feel at home in it. It was his son's house all the long, intended for him. That's why "SHE" made "HIM" uncomfortable there. That's why she was not allowed to make improvements. It may be that the house belonged to the son all the long, but she's so in the dark about this man and his finances that she knows nothing about that and just assumed it was his house."

And now THAT is something that really resonates with me. And sums up how I am feeling about it all pretty well right now. Contrary to what you may think I have been examining closely what it all means, a lot lately. I honestly don't know if DH puts that much thought into the meaning behind all those things or if that's just the way it is.

~Cat

((((((BIG HUGS CAT))))))))

And if you think I'm a hypocrit for daring to answer a post when my own life is in turmoil at the moment, well frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

Cat, you continue to be offended by what I said, but I don't know why your husband hasn't offended you or why you're still there for him to keep doing it. It is hypocracy to tell someone they need to do something you haven't been able to effect in your own life. I stated a fact, not a judgment. Facts may hurt sometimes, but they're not offensive, while judgments may be offensive. As it is not my place to police these boards, I am also not going to judge you. I didn't call you any names because that would be judgmental. I didn't reduce you to less than you are or represent yourself to be. I have no desire to judge you, so you don't have to be offended by anything I say. But, I also didn't write the dictionary. The meaning and acts of hyprocracy were not invented by me. I don't want opinions from people in the same boat as me. I prefer the wisdom from those who have been there because they have wisdom to offer. What they did to get out of a bad situation and improve their circumstances no matter the difficulties to overcome is what I appreciate hearing and find encouraging. I think the lady you told to leave her husband and anyone else new to the board might appreciate knowing you weren't exactly commiserating. It's only fair.

How do you know I'm not offended by what my husband said? Obviously I was or I wouldn't have posted about it.

Hypocrit or not you don't get to decide who's posts have merit here.

-Cat

"I prefer the wisdom from those who have been there because they have wisdom to offer. What they did to get out of a bad situation and improve their circumstances no matter the difficulties to overcome is what I appreciate hearing and find encouraging. "

Wow, that's great. When have you ever offered that to me? Your posts to me are full of what you would and would not ever accept in a relationship but I can't recall you ever offering a piece of advice based on your experience in your marriage, present or past to me. Your posts seem very judgemental, venomous and not in the least encouraging on any level-whether I choose to stay and work it out or leave. They are just extremely negative and so yes I suppose at times they do offend me, but that's okay too.
I can't recall you ever sharing anything about your personal experience or wisdom based on that. At least not with me.

But I don't take it personally, I think that's just your demeanor.

~Cat

Again, I wasn't trying to decide anything. I thought I already confirmed that.

What would you have me offer, Cat? What is left? Everyone has/had said it all from thread and post after another as far as I could tell, but you ignored them all to post more of what he did and to say you're just going to wait and see what happens. People have repeatedly tried to get you to make some decisions, rather than again avoiding having to make any. People have repeatedly tried to get you to take some control of your life, rather than leaving yourself to him and his sons' scrutiny and control. People have repeatedly pointed out important aspects of your posts, but you tell them you already know. People have repeatedly tried to make you know you deserve better even though you don't think so yourself. You never heard them like you never heard your husband shouting from the rooftop. What more was I supposed to add? You want coddling, but I don't pamper like that. You want support, but I don't stroke egos for doing nothing. You're right that it's my personality, and it happens to be sometimes people need to hear it straight. Sometimes it takes more than the kind words and joining in on the pity party. They have been kind because they feel they know you. Asolo ripped a new member a brand new booty after she did similarly but less than you did, yet he said nothing of the sort to you. So do you expect everyone to coddle you?

Your posts to me are full of what you would and would not ever accept in a relationship but I can't recall you ever offering a piece of advice based on your experience in your marriage, present or past to me.

Because it had all been said by others, but you heard what you wanted to hear from my posts to you. Again, I didn't call myself being judgmental. And no, I didn't call myself trying to encourage you either. Everyone else failed at that, so I called myself trying to wake you up and kick you into gear. You read what I "would and would not ever accept in a relationship" as mean, nasty, and judgmental. But it wasn't. You were supposed to read it as me telling you if I wouldn't accept all of this, then you aren't supposed to either and no woman should. You were supposed to know if I think so much of myself, you are supposed to think more of yourself. You were supposed to read it as being okay to have self esteem and place your own worth above his. You were supposed to know there is no better support system than your own two feet. You were supposed to understand your happiness does not depend on him. You were supposed to realize your own power and that only you can move the mountains of your world. Alas, you didn't read any of that. You just kept looking for everyone to play nice and coddle you. Because I didn't, then I'm mean and nasty. Okay, I'll be that. I'll be whatever you say if you just tell me you finally got the message.

Cat-

I've found this forum is a lot like group therapy with brass knuckles....just like group, the regular responders have seen and heard most varieties of marital conflict, they have strong opinions about those conflicts, and they aren't afraid to share their opinions....for what it's worth, when I brought my own issues here I got my ass kicked around pretty well, but I'd rather have my ass kicked by a stranger in an anonymous forum than have a friend dance around the subject.

In your case, I'd have to agree with thermometer, you've done a good job of laying out the fundamentals of your marital conflict, and the responders have given you their (strong) opinions on the fundamentals. All the detail you continue to provide is just filling in and confirming the fundamentals of the situation....at this point, it seems that you are just "blowing off steam" about the situation, which is fine, but I think this is the wrong place for it.....the regulars seem more oriented toward "problem solving", and lose patience with endless "steam blowing".

Best of luck-

"...endless "steam blowing"..."

My view also.

Gotcha, thanks.

Then, again, "steam blowing" is legal, too. Write what you want. Unlike some, you seem to have no problem dealing with your responses.

I don't know how old you are cat, but I'm an attorney who is seeing more women whose husband/boyfriend has died leaving them absolutely destitute, and with bills. I don't understand why women without small children, no savings and a husband who controls the money don't get a job. Any job. Because if he dies--you are really stuck if you live 20 years longer than he does:
I recently had a client come in whose husband of 27 years had just died. She didn't even know how much debt her husband had but her car was not paid for; she didn't make enough money from her social security to get an apartment and had to move from the house as she couldn't afford the house payments. He had refinanced their house and given money to his kids. His theory was she didn't work and had no say. Now she needs a job to survive and has never worked.
I don't get it, why would anybody put themselves in that position--and be unhappy all along. I could understand it if you were blissfully happy and the guy had some terminal illness.
You only live one time, and now that I am recovering from surgery and a bad fall I can tell you that as you get older life gets tricky enough;and painful, you don't need to complicate it with bad financial decisions.

i think spouses do have to disclose financial situations as well as decide together how much money is reasonable to give to the kids and where should they live and stuff like that.

after that many years of marriage you still do not know how much money he has, how much he gives his son, and how much he saved if any. even if we ignore his overall treatment of you that is frankly pretty pathetic, i would worry about finances...with your job that is probably OK paid, you can afford renting a small apartment closer to your son and save for old age living modestly.

also think about this: you would have to take care of your DH in old age. after his treatment of you i wonder why would you want to spend your old age taking care of him? he probably relies on it...he knows his kids are losers so you will be taking care of him and you are younger...is that how you wantt o spend your old age?

also if he is not willing to have normal spousal relationship with disclosing everything etc why did he marry you? he could just date you and in that case you would maintain your freedom. what is the point of marrying and then do his own thing and never share? maybe if you don't want to break up completelly date him, but don't stay legally married, what for? i see no benefit in it?

I do work full time, and save for retirement, but there is no way we will be comfortable on what I am able to put away.. That is a concern I have verbalized many many times to him. I love him so of course would care for him if he became incompacitated However if he needed around the clock care I would be unable to manage it financially as would he if something happened to me.

I have no doubt he does not want me to know how much he is shelling out to the kids. Though I have seen an attorney this week and have done a good job of protecting myself, so I do feel better about that.

No, I had hoped to spend my "golden years" with him enjoying traveling and spending time together. Now I am just unsure about everything and just not sure which way to move next but I'm having surgery this week so can't do much right now. I know he senses me frsutration and I think he feels the same, but can't really comment on that because I don't really know his situation.

We haven't had further discussion since last week about this and right now I'm really, really, really anxious about my upcoming surgery.

~Cat

I know how much money he has-none. Trust me I'm not in this for the money. But I do not know how much he gives monthly though I know it's at least $350-400 probably more, it's been a sore spot for me because he could be applying it to his debt.

It's not that his kid/s aren't capable of making it on their own. It's that DH doesn't want them to want for anything. So they don't. They live beyond their means and he helps them. Then we do without. I think a lot is guilt related but I really don't care why anymore.

But, he does not tell me what to do with my money. I contribute, get most of the grocery/household stuff, pay our life ins, health ins, car pay & ins things like that. I would like to be able to send that kind of money to my son who is working himself through college, but I can't do that much.

So we each pay to sustain the household, but I guess I look more long term and wanting him to get his finances in order so we won't be destitute and he thinks if he has no money there is nothing to budget..it's like beating your head into a wall. I honestly don't know to get him to sit and work a budget/plan for our future. He will not do it and becomes angry/frustrated when I "get pushy". I really just don't think it is realistic to even hope for it anymore. On the upside I'm sure he will take good care of me this week, as he always does when I am under the weather. But that's what couples are supposed to do. Blah, whatever.

_Cat

Okay Cat, I am going to try this one more time. You said you wanted to hear from those who have been where you are...well, I told you that I have been. I believe rather than "loving" your H (I won't even call him DH)...you are afraid of being alone. He has made your self-esteem rock bottom. He doesn't love you in return and when you take off your blinders and see that, you will realize that it is MUCH better living alone than with someone who treats you as he has.

When I decided to leave, I didn't look back and it was the best thing I ever did for myself. I think your H might be like the one I had....a manic depressive...and believe me, I can attest to to the fact that you never know which mood he is going to be in. Is he on medication? Has he been tested for it? That is HIS problem and not yours anymore.

When I left, I had only my meger job, but I had a good lady friend who let me live with her until I got myself together.....but I made it and so can you!!!, but you have to want something better for yourself, and take action!!!
It isn't the end of the world....so what if you "planned" to travel etc. with him...that is what they make bus tours for...you don't need him....culivate your girl friends...men come and go, but they won't......that is, if you are a good friend to them also.

I have read your posts for so long....and nothing changes...and nothing will, until YOU take control of your own life~~~~so get your things together and get yourself out (that is if you are living together now)....burn those bridges and do not look back!!!!! You will not only feel better physically, but emotionally, as well.....I PROMISE YOU!!!

So take action NOW!!! You have had good advice on these posts, but I think some are getting tired of hearing about your woes if you won't take that first step and get out.
Good Luck....and I hope the next time I stop by here, but have said that you have left him for good and never to see him again.

I was married 33 years to my second husband and I was lonely for probably 30 of those years. Let me tell you something...being single and lonely and being married and lonely two very different things. I'll take single and lonely anytime, it's heaven compared to being married and lonely.