My kingdom for a paragraph.

Sorry for the long post without paragraphs, i'm assuming that's what asolo meant.

Hi

Could you some feedback please?

A few years ago I found a secret account my husband had opened without my knowledge.
When I confronted him about it he said
"It's none of your business; that's my money.
I work overtime and put all my bonuses in there."

He is very obsssed and paranoid about money and doesn't trust me, because as a 17 year old I racked up a $3000 credit card bill and my dad bailed me out, and I paid back every penny.

He doesn't get the fact that I was young and went a little crazy but that was many years ago and people make mistakes;
he see it as the way I will always be although I've given him no reason to hide money during our marriage.

We both work he pays for houshold bills and I pay for groceries and gas for the car and my personal stuff, haircuts etc.

After he found out I knew about it he promised never to open an account without letting me know first.

I don't have a problem with him having separate savings accounts besides our joint account but not in secret.

Fast forward a few years and I am emptying his pockets to wash his jeans and I see a bank slip with a different account number and branch I don't recognise.

I again confront him and he said I never promised not to tell you if I opened another account.

Needless to say I let it go only to discover the same thing a few days ago.

I was checking our joint account online and noticed a few thousand transferred to his stock account and another few thousand somewhere else.

In the mean time I had noticed a different bank card in his wallet that I've never seen before.

When I asked him about the money transferred out of the joint account he said he wanted to buy some stocks and that both amounts went to the stock account, which was not possible as it was a different number.

So I said to him, "so you don't have any other savings accounts then?"

He said no.
I said, "then what is that new bank card for?"

Right away he said "that's my money, yes I have another savings account, if I don't take it out of the joint account it will get spent and I'd never save anything."

Not true as there has been a significant amount built up in the joint account and I haven't touched it.

I haven't talked to him about this latest incident as I'm quite angry and dissapointed to find he didn't respect me enough to tell me about his other accounts.

To let you know how controlling he is with money, we were out shopping and I asked him to stop so I could get a latte which is something I don't buy regularly because he goes on and on how expensive they are.

So I was giving him direction where to turn off for the cafe because he'd never been there and he purposely missed the turning which meant we'd have to turn around.

He said oh I didn't realise you meant turn there oh well we might as well just go home then.

I was fuming so I made him turn around and all he did was complain about this latte I was drinking all the way home.

"I can't believe they charge so much for that what a rip off etc" and over and over all the way home, very wearing.

Any advice re the secret bank account would be appreciated......Thanks

Please realize that I'm speaking straight from my experienced heart & that my message is a "been there, done that, paid for everybody's dang tee shirt" message.

I once had an arrangement with my ex, at his insistance, that he'd pay the "big" stuff, ie house payment, & his own car payment, & I'd pay the "little" things, utilities & groceries & my own car payment.

As time went by, the house payment stayed the same, but the cost of utilities & groceries skyrocketed.

Since his income was easily twice what mine was, I really began to feel the pinch, riding the bus to work & carrying my own lunch, while he bought new cars & drove to work & ate out.

& he refused to re-draw the agreement.

I realized, after it was all over, that I should have let the lights & water be disconnected, but, like you, I thought I could *reason* with him.

He had no motivation to treat me fairly, just as your husband has no motivation to treat you fairly or to be honest with you.

When people marry, they should be a team;
each one should want the best for the other & should share.

If one partner is leeching off the other, it isn't a marriage;
it's just another con man/woman using some poor soul who doesn't know any better.

I can just about guarantee that your husband has *tons* more stashed away than you know about, while you're paying your "share" of the bills in good faith & trying to talk him into believing that your one youthful indiscretion really is in the past.

He knows that.

He doesn't care.

As long as he can keep you on the defensive about it, he's in control.

& as long as you don't force his hand, nothing will change.

You're living with a controller & a thief.

The only way you'll ever realize the scope of his dishonesty & disrespect is to file for divorce;

get an attorney & have a forensic accountant search for hidden assets;

this guy has been ripping you off & making a fool of you for years.

Do you live in a community property state?

Didn't any of this show up when you did your taxes?

Hi Scarlett2001
I live in Canada and he does his own taxes so i haven't really been privvy to his finances, although there is one incident that raised my suspicions now that i think about it.

Last summer he said that the bank said we should use our individual debit cards to access our joint account online with separate passwords. I had just sent a friends son a cheque for his birthday, but when i talked to him on his birthday usually he says thank you for it but he didn't.

It made me wonder if i had remembered to put it in the card. I asked my husband since the bank was closed so i couldn't set up my password, could he give me his so i could see if the cheque had been cashed. He said no i'd have to wait until Monday until the bank opened.

I said fine if you don't want to give me the password can you get on the account for me so i can see the if the cheque cleared.Again he said no because he had his private stuff on there. That should have put the red flags up for me then. I didn't like the comment but i didn't pursue it as i didn't want to rock the boat. I should have!!!!!

Yo silvia....you, too, apparently.

Hi Sylvia

Thank you so much for your response. Sorry to hear you've gone through the same experience yourself. I've tried to make excuses for the situation for years,saying he makes more money than i do therefore he should make all the decisions. He's saving for our retirement etc. I think i've come to the conclusion where it's not even about the money involved it's the deceitfulness and the lying about it. When confronted he seems to think he's done nothing wrong as it's his money he's saving in those accounts. I realise he worked a lot of overtime to try and get ahead of all the bills,but i wasn't at home drinking wine and getting manicures. I was at home whilst he was doing all this overtime taking care of 4 kids and a household and doing childcare for other families to bring in an income because he insisted i make some money. Since i felt it was important to be there for our kids i chose to do daycare to allow me to do that. How did you survive those times with your ex ?

I survived it through divorce...

during which he came over one night railing at me that I wasn't about to get any of the money in his credit union account (money he'd been able to bank because I was paying all the bills), that that money was for *his* retirement.

It was a nightmare.

This is about the money & so much more.

"he makes more money than i do therefore he should make all the decisions."

which means that *all* the power is in his hands.

which means that there is no "our" retirement.

If he were saving for the two of you, he'd have shared the facts;
when a spouse keeps hidden assets, he isn't planning on you sharing in any retirement funds.

The fact that he insisted that you go to work, even though you had small children & he was well able to afford for you to stay home with them, says that he cares more for monetary assets than he cares for his wife & children.

I feel for you all.......and not sure I have any real advice.

My husband of 33 years told me he Made the Money, therefore, got to spend the money,

I also worked all but seven years of child bearing years, finally woke up one day and decided if I wanted a bra or a permanet, I would have to run it past my husband. I went through a brutal divorce, believe me even your own lawyer doesn't necessarily stand by you. I had one daughter on her own another preparing for a wedding, another first year of college and a mother just moved to a nursing home. Lawyers tried to go after my Mother's money and I was no longer working as I had been caring for my in laws.

Time passes and you moved on, but in my decree it is stated that my ex is responsible for my health insurance. Over the past 15 years he has changed this some, and then insisted I go on medicare before I was of Social Security age. Now with this new medical change in Mass. he is trying to turn my medical over to me and says that he will reimburse me. My problem is I have no proof that he will continue with that as he ages and I am afraid that I will Null and Void the original decree. Men always seem to have that controling need.

I am not saying get a divorce but certainly get professional help (perhaps a mediator) and get this straightened out now. Therapy goes on for ever and not particulary in favor of it.

Good luck to all.......Jacque

Sylvia....Glad to hear you survived although it took divorcing to do it.Your situation sounds a lot like mine, although you were strong enough to go through with the divorce. I've tried to leave a couple of times but have chickened out at the last minute thinking i could have been more understanding and blaming myself for the way he was. He laid it on really thick with all the promise of change and how things were going to be different. I guess in some ways things did change a little in other areas but the secretive finances have always stayed the same. When i think of him retiring which isn't far away, it scares the heck out of me as i know i'm going to be under his thumb as i won't have a work pension like he will as all my work has been done out of the house as a business.i know in my heart i can't live like this but i lack the confidence and self esteem to do anything about it. He will never change regarding money, i realise that now so i guess i'll have to either live like this and be under his control or gather some self confidence and do something about it.Easier said than done. Thanks for your reply.

*Everybody* chickens out a time or three.

& as jleek says, controllers never stop trying to control, & misers never stop trying to get you to relinquish your right to your own money.

Be brave & be careful.

Marriage is not only an emotional committment but a financial and business arrangement as well. I have no idea how Canadian law works, but it's time to put aside your emotions and secure your financial future for yourself and your kids. You need a lawyer and I wonder how you will pay for that. Probably start at a women's center or call your legal referral service for a pro bono arrangement. And you must see your past tax records. You have a legal right to them. Don't let this slide. Now that you have been "awakened", you cannot go back to sleep.

My former husband, a man I knew for some time before I married him, turned out to have a different name, age, education and financial situation from those he represented to me. He also turned out to be still married to another woman. I understand how you feel. It isn't easy but you have to do what you have to do.

Figure out the paragraphs later. Tend to business now. Do it secretly. If he finds out you're doing it, the hammer will drop.

I suggest clandestine gathering of information and then YOU be the dropper of any hammers dropped.

I was going to say exactly what Asolo said. You need to start making copies of these deposit slips, bank statements whatever and get a saftey deposit box and gether all the financial info you can get.

Then, see a lawyer. Oh, and btw..I wouldn't be paying for jack-sc**tt anymore except my Latte.

~Cat

Hi...Thank you all for your kind words of wisdom. The worst thing about all of this is he doesn't think he's done anything wrong.

"....he doesn't think he's done anything wrong."

They never do...even when the injured party confronts them with the obvious. Don't worry about it. Just do what you have to.

"....he doesn't think he's done anything wrong."
Uh huh. When I found out my then-husband was still married to his previous wife (I had just given birth to our child and thought our marriage was valid) he told me it was "none of my business".

I know people on here are probably sick of hearing this, but:
Women who are married, whether happily or unhappily, need to have some career skills so they can get a job and support themselves if the unthinkable happens. Don't wait until you are older to get those skills. Community colleges have lots of classes at all times of the day or evening, but don't go to the vocational schools advertised on daytime TV, they're usually a rip.

What ever happened to marriage being a "union" of two people? Emotionally and financially.

Is it so hard to put all the money into one joint checking account, pay ALL bills out of that account and also put X amount of dollars into savings each month (after figuring out what your "budget" is) Husband and wife each get a certain amount monthly for their "extras".

I know this is pretty basic but him paying some bills and her paying others is crazy in a marriage. If two people can't sit down and discuss money and expendatures then they have no business being married to begin with.

glad you've found a system that works for you.

It troubles me, though, that you think your system is a determinant of people's fitness for marriage.

IMHO financial competence IS a determinant of fitness for marriage....or adulthood generally.

There are many different ways to do it but carelessness or obliviousness don't belong anywhere within either. Deal-breakers beyond age about 22.

i wonder if he is opening new accounts because he is planning on leaving...

I think that's a slam-dunk, lead-pipe cinch.

Hello, Hope everybody had an enjoyable Christmas. Thank you all for your sound advice. I realize at the end of the day i'm the one that has to make decisions concerning my findings but insight from you all definitely gives me some ideas and different perspectives. Christmas for us was very strained as there was no affection or traditional lovey dovey moments. I guess because i feel he's treating me like a roomate rather than a partner i definitely obliged. Nobody else ( our boys, relatives etc) seemed to notice that anything was amiss as i made sure i made christmas just as special this year as i would have any other year. The way i see it is i'm good enough to clean the house i'm good enough to shop for groceries good enough to do laundry etc but not good enough to share financial information with. It's all about money for him. If he doesn't feel something needs fixing in the house it doesn't get done. We went for 3 years with hot water sometimes coming out of cold taps and vice versa so you could never have a decent shower because the water was only warm at best. It didn't affect him because he showered at work after his shifts. Here he is stashing money away for whatever reason and i'm driving around in a vehicle that has barely any heat the gas gauge is broken so never knowing how much fuel is available and the ABS has not worked for 3 years. He's made attempts to fix the ABS himmself but to no avail. At that point we should have takien it in to get it fixed but he wouldn't put out the money.I think the clincher for me was when he watched me do all the christmas decorating myself whilst he sat playing games on the computer. I'm talking outside lights on huge trees. My sons ended up helping me in the end as i had to get up a huge ladder to hook them up. I relize things are not good between us but i still wanted to make it a good christmas for my children so i did what i had to do. That was just disrespectful to sit there watching me up a huge ladder struggling to put up xmas lights. But i was determined to do it and thought f@#%k you i'm going to make christmas what i usually make it with or without you. I asked him why he didn't come out and help me even though i'd asked for his help. He said because he didn't really care if we had lights up or not. How selfish is that.

Very discouraging to learn. You've described a real turd for a husband. In my view, 1/2 of "his" money is actually yours anyway. Considering the silly deprivations you described, especially, the idea of your having no say in any expenditure is particularly irksome. Certainly not my idea of a "marriage."

Your husband is truly, deeply and irrevocably in love...with himself.

I don't usually come to this forum; but saw your post & have to ask.. how long have you guys been married? It sounds like your kids are older- maybe teens?

My last ex was the same way with money even though I contributed to the accounts. One day I went to write a check at Caldor or used a credit card to find I couldn't pay because the account was closed. I don't know how he managed to close bank accounts without me but he did.

I'm remarried; my hub has also had issues with his last wife; so we decided that there would be a joint checking account; we would then have a checking account in our name only- I pay for food; cell phone & my credit card bills while he pays the other bills.

I don't know if something like this would work. Do you feel he's going to serve you with divorce papers eventually?

hi roselvr... Yes my children are all older 18 to 26. We have been married for 26 years. i think because i've been so busy taking care of the family over the last 25 years i have let a lot of this go by the wayside. I've been too tolerant and have not spoken up, mainly to keep the peace so my boys didn t grow up in a conflicted environment .
That's not always a good thing but i did the best i could at the time.I think i have been brainwashed into thinking that because i didn't make as much monetary contribution i didn't have as much say as to how the money was spent.
Of course i've woken up and realize that the contribution i made to the family was just as or even more important than the monetary contribution. My husband still insists that he's done nothing wrong, because when it's happened previously and he talked to a counsellor the counsellor said he's done nothing wrong.

He told the counsellor only what he wanted him to hear and not the whole story, so of course the counsellor can only counsel on the information given at the time. That's why he's sticking with i've done nothing wrong. He'd rather be right than try to make amends and resolve the situation. I think unfortunately i've lost a lot of respect for him lately after he totally left christmas in my hands without an ounce of help.
Don't think this is salvagable as i feel more like a roomate than a wife and that's exactly how he's treating me.

Just an update on my situation. Since discovering my husband had been hiding money i somewhat have distanced myself emotionally from him as i felt more like a roomate.

He has always been very needy and relied on me for all his entertainment and emotional needs. He has made himself the victim and is feeling very sorry for himself as he still insists he did nothing wrong.

A few weeks he said he wanted to go away by himself.I didn t really respond as i thought he maybe needed to clear his head. He didn t tell me he had booked a trip, a suitcase just showed up on the bedroom floor. After a while he still hadn t said anything.Finally after a week he started packing so i asked him when he was leaving, he said tomorrow.WTH.....he tells me the night before. When i asked him where he was going all he said was the south side of the dominican republic, that s all he would tell me.I said , at least leave a contact number so we can get you in a dire emergency. He said what's the point i wouldn t be able to get a flight out anyway. That's BS.I think that is very irresponsible. Why is he being so deceitful. Any insight would be appreciated. i just don't get it.

He started packing so i finally said when are you leaving. He said tomorrow. WTH... Why all the secrecy. He left it so late to say goodbye to the kids(ok so they are really young adults but still impressionable none the less)

They haven't really noticed anything amiss in our relationship so they were totally shocked when they received a text from him at the airport to say he was going on a trip. They couldn t believe he was going by himself and that he hadn't mentioned before that he was going away, and the fact he didn't say goodbye in person.

I realize he might need to get away to clear his head but why all the secrecy. When i asked him wherre he was going he only offered to the southside of the Dominican Republic. I asked him to at least leave a contact number in an emergency.His parents are elderly something could happen to one of the kids etc. He replied why, i wouldn t be able to get a flight out anyway( that's BS) he obviously didn t want me to know where he was going. I only wanted a number in the case of an emergency anyway.

he has totally destroyed my trust in him, so of course i'm wondering has he really gone alone. why all the deceitfullness .

Sorry but it sounds like he is getting ready to leave you. that's what my BIL did when he left my Sis. He used their money to pay for his girl friends home, it was a way to hide the money.

OK, you're free for a while. See a lawyer while he's away and prepare to act upon his return. Do it tomorrow. If you let this slide any further/longer you will be a very foolish person, IMHO.

Yes asolo you are absolutely right. I need to act now as this last demonstration of disrespect is the straw that broke the camel's back. I m sure as a man you would never treat your wife like that. I'm tired of coming second to money.I am nothing less than respectful in my dealings with him despite his spiteful ways, so i don't deserve this. I 'm going to take care of some stuff in the next week.Thanks for your feedback, can always count on you for down to earth honest advice.

I am not sure how things work in Canada but see if you can find an accountant that is skilled in finding hidden assets. A forsenic account sounds like an CSI thing but is kind of. She/He should be able to find out where the funds that he took out of a joint account went and then hopefully help your attorney if you divorce get you your share.

On a side bar, been there done that but I stayed. I am now on the account I knew he had. The worst part for me is if the trust is gone....why am I still here? Stupidity but I really do love him. Just would love to be treated like I do him. Oh well. You take care of yourself. Think about how you want to live your life and if this happens again you probably will not find out for a long time. Maybe you need to open an account in your name, pay the bills you need from there and he could not use your funds.

I'd guess he has a lot of your money stashed in the Dominican Republic.

Sylvia.... I was thinking the exact same thing. He might even attempt to open an offshore account.Don't know if the Domonican is the best place to do that.

He doesn't need to open an off shore account. Courts won't track down money, they don't have time or resources to do that. If they believe you they can punish him by making him pay a huge alimony.

Just an update> Whilst my husband was away i gathered as much information as i could just incase. When he got back he seemed really nervous and agitated, i don't know if that meant anything. I didn't really want to talk about his trip as i was still reeling from the fact that he went away and left us no emergency contact.

He proceeded to tell me that he got his diving certificate whilst he was down there. I told him that i thought it was very irresponsible of him to not tell us he was going away till the last minute and not leave an emergency number. His reply to that..ou're going to have to accept me as i am and that includes me not wanting to leave an emergency number if he didn't want to.WOW. Thought i'd let things ride to see what happened. We have lived platonically since then. About 2 weeks ago he started to change his attitude. He became very respectful, helpful and considerate.

He actually thanked me for shopping for his Mom's birthday, something he's never done before in 26 years. I started to think there might be some hope that we could work this mess out if this was going to be the NEW him. I was abit skeptical as previously when we've hd bad times he changes for a little while then everything goes back to the old ways. I was really starting to appreciate the NEW him. I could even bring up things that were bothering me without the fear of him getting upset and cold shouldering me.

A few days ago he asked if i would bring him a cup of tea up to the bedroom, so i said sure. When i get up there he asks me to get into bed with him.\I knew where this was going but i thought we needed to sort some things out before i wanted to get intimate with him again. It has been on my mind recently that something might have happened down in the Dominican. So i said, if we're going to try to repair our damaged relationship there was some things that needed to be discussed.Iasked him if he had slept with anybody whilst in the Dominican. He refused to answer. So i said i'll take that as a yes then. He still didn't say anything but he turned into an angry man not the sweet kind one he'd been for the last two weeks. He said what do you expect you haven't touched me in 5 months.I said that i had a right to know if he had been with anybody else in order to protect myself. H accused me of rejecting him and sabotaging his efforts to mend the relationship. Was i wrong, i don't think so. I feel like he was only making an effort bacause he had an agenda, which robbed me of any hope.

Gracie, are you Mum4 with a new name?

Assuming yes, so now what? You've given an update which indicates that nothing much has changed. What happens next?

Hi yes susieque this is my new name. I was hoping somebody could steer me in the right direction. I'm having a really hard time cutting loose even though i can't really trust him anymore. Assertiveness is not my strong point i just need a nudge. Thanx

I don't think you're going anywhere. You seem not to know what to do other than what you have been doing. Must be more comfortable than change. It usually is.

Hi gracie - consider yourself nudged. I think you've gotten steered in the right direction a lot - read the responses since your first post. However, you have to want it and consider the direction right for you. If you don't, you won't act. If you do, see if a close friend will stand with you and give you the bolstering that you need.

Thanks suzieque.... That was great encouragement. You are right though i have to want it. After all that's happened most people would say it's a no brainer, so why is it so damned hard. Is it because i don't have a full time job, or i figure i'm unemployable at my age? It's certainly not my children as they're quite self sufficient and are old enough to understand. Asolo...I can hear the frustration in your voice but still appreciate your view anyway. You must be right as far as staying must be more comfortable than leaving despite the toxic environment i'm living in. I'm frustrated with myself as yes i am afraid of change, always have been . Maybe i'm waiting until the ultimate act of betrayal which will force my hand with no regrets. I have had some great advice here and i know it's probably exasperating when you've seen all the positive avenues i have been steered to, but am still stuck in the same old mess.( i'm not having a pity party, i'm just venting my frustrations at myself). Thanks everybody, i hope i can act soon.

"....yes i am afraid of change, always have been..."

In that way, you're like almost everyone else. No shame in it. "The time" is different for everyone. Sometimes it never comes. Sometimes it comes in a moment of crystal clarity. Usually its a muddle involving all manner of uncertainty and soul-searching. I suspect you'll figure it out your own way after sufficient reflection.

I almost always go back to the "one life" idea. How do want to live the rest of yours?

Thanks Asolo, your advice is due noted and wise as it always is.