It's all your fault, huh?
He's just pointing the blame finger at you to avoid blaming himself.
IMO, it's not quite the same as adultry, but he IS having sex and it's not with you -- so there's some adultrous element.

Lots of meen seem to like porn, and while I don't care for it myself, I can accept it in small doses. Again, no normal woman can compete with an airbrushed 18 year old, and I imagine many (most?) women quickly fall out of a potentially-interested mood when they find hubby's all riled up because he's been looking at Photoshop'ed teenagers. I don't blame you a bit. Porn also lets the man completely off the hook. No performance anxiety, no need for foreplay, talking, cuddling, even taking a shower. Just 'plug and play'...

I think counseling is a great idea, provided your DH can be arm-twisted into going and actually talking with some degree of honesty. What finally worked for me was to actually make the appointment, inform him of the time and place, and then tell him we could go to see how to save our marriage, or that I would go alone to see if I wanted to try to save the marriage. Turns out that marriage wasn't worth saving...

My thoughts:

Porn is not the same as adultery, and all men look at porn at some point or the other. Usually, there's no reason to get offended, so long as the porn viewing is within a reasonable amount, and it's done either with the wife (which can be fun), or is done without shoving it in the wife's face ("Hey, look at these hot babes, which you're not anymore!" is totally not the way to go.) My husband looks at porn occasionally -- I know he does, and I don't care, so long as he does it discreetly.

That being said...there's something very seriously wrong between you two. It's fine for a husband to look at porn occasionally when you're not around or you're not in the mood and he's got some alone time, but if he's doing it instead of engaging in activity with you, that's a big problem. You need counseling, stat.

As with another post I must ask: What is it that you consider "porn"? Some people say the Sears underwear catalogue is "porn". The range of personal definitions/opinions is vast. My response to you would vary greatly depending on your descriiption.

How often are you talking about, once a week, every day, more than that ?

Get your relationship going well, then the rest follows.

I agree with counselling, you seem to have quite a few issues that need talking through, and identifying.

Thank you for the replies. The porn that I refer to is various mens magazines, adult videos, and internet. Nothing scary or underage or anything like that. (thank God)
A big part of my frustration is that he has always gone to great lengths to hide it all from me. For instance, If he thought that I was gone somewhere he would lock himself in the bedroom with our kids watching cartoons in the living room and "partake". Acouple of times I had returned home and accidently catch him in the act. I have never degraded him for it. I just would get my feelings hurt because I NEVER get the attention and was being denied And Sweeby is right when she said that a lot of the reason is because I think that he just doesn't want to be bothered with the whole foreplay and after cuddling because on the rare occasion that I have been included in the fun. He does his business and either watches TV or hops up and leaves. I admit that I need to lose some weight but I am not obese and this was going on when I was a size 7. This has been ongoing since we got married. I am tired of trying to look good for him and get his attention because it never works. I am beginning to feel that it is more of a fear of intimacy or something and I have all but demanded counseling or I am leaving. He just said that he does not like ultimatiums. So......

From your description, I'd wager your problem isn't the porn. I strongly suspect that's just the easiest place to focus your anger/disappointment. The other issues you described are where its at. 20 year's worth? Ongoing since you got married? Hoo-boy! This does need attention. Get a counselor, get both of you there and get something going. His agreeing or refusing to go will tell you quite a bit all by itself. Your children deserve happy parents.

Take Sweeby's advise....

"I think counseling is a great idea, provided your DH can be arm-twisted into going and actually talking with some degree of honesty. What finally worked for me was to actually make the appointment, inform him of the time and place, and then tell him we could go to see how to save our marriage, or that I would go alone to see if I wanted to try to save the marriage. Turns out that marriage wasn't worth saving... "

I think often we focus on one particular problem and then that is a catalyst for change in the marriage. But really, the problems are many and can be worked out once you understand what they are.

Obviously you both are not getting what you need out of your marriage...go to counselling for your children, and for yourself.

Osolo is right, your children need happy parents.

All the best to your my friend, let us know what you do.

By the way...you talk about your appearance, well make yourself look pretty, healthy for YOU, because it makes you feel good. Be good to yourself.

Popi

He sounds like he has major intimacy problems.

I would guess your weight problem is only as big as you make it. I have a feeling he's using it and other things to make you feel insecure so that you feel his intimacy problems are your fault... which I doubt they are.

I am really not a big fan of marriage counseling, especially with a problem like yours. I find sometimes men like that just lie and the problems actually become worse. I would suggest you talk to someone alone (especially since it sounds like he's refusing to go anyway). Hopefully they can help you sort out what is really going on, and help build up your esteem so that you can rationally make important decisions.

A lot of men look at porn, but the fact that you are able to consider blaming yourself for 'his hobby' and lack of sex leads me to believe a lot more is going on in your relationship? Do you think maybe your husband has been eating away at your self esteem (probably because of his own insecurities)? With holding sex is often a control issue used by some men. Is he demeaning in other areas? Does he constantly call or imply you are stupid or can't do things good enough? Just wondering what we are actually dealing with here....

There's definitely an avoidance of intimacy going on...

Both the "I'd rather take care of myself than be with you" and the "wham, bam, adios m'am" routines are cruel and punishing. Now he might be doing it out of fear, out of insecurity, as a control thing or as a passive agressive tactic just to hurt you -- Who really knows why, but it's an issue that needs exploring.

You may be able to work through enough of it with a counseller without him.

naw its just entertainment. fun to look at once in a while.

rivkadr...actually "all men" do not look at porn. Many men are into porn, and many men are not into porn. Just pointing out a sweeping generalization you made.

second...bekile...your question, is porn the same as adultry. Yes and No. Yes, in that even though he may physically be intimate with you, (because you are there) with his eyes closed, he "may" actually be pulling up images in his mind of another woman from one of his porn videos, and "imagining" that he is actually being intimate with her. You "may" just be the physical person available, but it "may" be the other woman's image who is actually turning him on, and who he is..."in his mind", with at that moment.

And No...because he is not actually with that woman. So technically, he is not actually having an affair. But I can understand how it must feel that way, if he is more interested and obsessed with porn, than he is with his wife. To him, he may believe that he is not hurting anyone. But he fails to understand how this obsession makes you feel as a woman, and as the woman who is supposed to be his lover, and feel desired by him. And wanted. And if his desire is instead for the woman in these videos and images...how are you supposed to feel? What is your role now in his life?

bnicebkind, if you're going to quote me, please quote my entire statement:

all men look at porn at some point or the other.

Sorry, but I do think that all men do look at porn at SOME point in their life, and decide whether or not it's for them. I'm not saying that all men sit down every day and look at porn. If you honestly think that every guy out there hasn't at least looked at a Playboy or Hustler at some point in their life, then you're fooling yourself.

First, I would like to say thank you to all of you for your kind and sensitive opinions. This is a problem that I have been struggling with (and blaming myself) for years all alone. It is not the kind of thing that you can discuss with your mom or a friend. So having a place to be faceless has been a lifesaver. I half expected to get a few raunchy or mean comments and everyone has been so helpful.

I do think that my DH and I both have a problem. He has his... and I am insecure. I think that one has fed off the other. It has gone on so long because other than the sex issues...we are good friends. It is almost like we are brother sister or best buddies and I think that he thinks that IS what love is. He grew up with a dad who was angry and mean and while I am thankful that he is not like his dad...I think he just shut down his intimate self. AND I have always felt that I looked pretty or was smart or talented if someone else told me that I look pretty etc. I get compliments at work and from other men sometimes and it makes me feel good. Then I come home and get nothing from the man who really matters and no matter how sexy I dress or how fixed up I get there is no compliment from him. It is disappointing so I guess that I quit trying to look good at home because I got no positive reinforcment.
I can see now what is going wrong in our relationship. I have an appointment to talk with someone and DH has agreed to go too but I want to go alone a couple of times first to work on my issues I think. I have gotten a couple of self esteem books and I am finding that this is not an isolated problem. That his problem has been fueling mine.
Thank you all again.
I think that I am feeling hope for my marriage.

Wise words, Bekile, and some good steps in the right direction. I happen to think this problem is very, very common. It's really easy to feel vulnerable and insecure when the one person whose approval you want more than anything in the world isn't giving it... And on the other side, it's hard to dish out the praise and 'go out on a limb' intimacy-wise when you aren't getting the right signals.

But since you say you are still best friends - even in a brother-sisterly way - I'm hoping there's still a good chance that the magic can return. Be aware though, you'll probably both have to take emotional risks. But they are SO worth taking...

It doesn't sound as bad as I thought it may be. It sounds like you still have a psychological "intimate" relationship with your husband, just not a physically intimate one. I'll tell you what, if you feel as close as brother and sister or best friends, your marraige can't be all that bad.

I would wonder, though, if maybe he could be having some sexual problems and be too embarassed to share them with you. Maybe he is experimenting with porn to help resolve them. Maybe his view on sex is just warped due to some bad past experience.

I certainly hope you can lose some of your insecurities. I think as woman age and lose their youthful beauty and figures, it can be extra hard on many of them. Maybe you're just taking your 'loss of youth' a little too hard. Most/many men don't give a lot of compliments. But you should still try to dress up and look nice, for yourself! It will do wonders for you.

Good luck.

When someone is addicted to porn, yes, it can be just as hurtful as adultery. In fact, with an addiction, the person spends all his time, money and energy thinking/doing porn. He will alienate his wife, his friends and even his children. I know first hand and this was a terrible!! problem for me and my family.I say "was" because I am divorcing him. I think the worst thing for me was it didn't really matter what I looked like. I'm 5'6, 120#, and have been told I look like Ava Gardener, or Sandra Bullock more than once. So Yes, I Am attractive. But that didn't seem to matter. And yes, I once told him that his obsession with porn made me feel like he was having an affair. The lies, the secret PO boxes, etc.. I feel for you and No you are Not Crazy to feel the way you do. I liken it to gambling. Lot's of people can go to Vegas and have a great time gambling on a special occasion/vacation. But then they are able to go back home and wait until the Next vacation. They don't have to sneak out of the house to hit the slot machines whenever they can. If it causes harm and hurtful feeling to the people you are supposed to love most, then it's WRONG and you have a PROBLEM. Good luck to you.

bekile,
I've come back to your post several times. I feel compelled to respond in hopes that I can help at least one woman out there whose spouse is addicted to masturbation/porn.

Let me start by giving you some history. I have been married for 17 years to a wonderful man. He is a great father, provider, business man, and friend. If you were to meet him you would think he is a great guy - and he is!

The porn issue has been a problem in our marriage from the beginning. Except, I didn't know it. I would find a porn magazine once in awhile in the early years. When the internet came along it became a bigger issue. Again, I didn't know the severity of his addiction until about a year ago. He promised he would stop - but couldn't. In August, I found it again and had to make some tough lonely decissions. Keep in mind that like you, I thought it was me for the longest time. If I was prettier, sexier, etc. he would stop the porn and give his attention to me.

I WANT YOU TO KNOW THE FOLLOWING THINGS:

1.) It is not about you. It is not a Competition. It does not matter how pretty you are, how much you initiate and get rejected, etc. It is his problem. If one of the women he fantasizes about came to life to have a relationship with him, he would still be looking at porn and masturbating to other women.

2.) A porn/masturbation addiction is one of the hardest addictions to overcome. It is harder to overcome than drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. It can not and should not be treated the same way.

3.) He wants to stop but does not know how to do so correctly.

4.) He lives in fantasy land and not in reality. Until he does find out that what he has in reality is better than fantasy he will never stop. He can only find out that reality is better by building an intimate relationship. This is a long journey.

5.) First, you and he need to determine if you want to do the hard work to build an intimate relationship. He may never have had a genuine intimate relationship with anyone before so he may not have any thing to reference the risk and rewards to.

6.) The lies are more hurtful to you than the addiction itself. If he can learn to be honest 100% of the time the addiction can be maintained and controlled. It can never be overcomed.

My husband and I have been in serious counseling for three months. It has been the hardest thing I have ever done.
I have a very good web-site I can direct you to if you would like to email me.

I wish you all the best. You are not alone. This problem is a growing epidemic that no one talks about.

Barbara

I think the point is not if the pornography is good or bad to watch. I think He should mind and been concerned about what you think. You are his wife! and if he doesn't care about what you think, then you should look for someone that cares.
if both in the couple like porn, that's perfect because the would not have problems about.
everything depends of what works for both.
about what I think about it. Porn is the same as adultry. I think it is the same as going to strippers, having intercourse with an other women. the all have different degrees of how serious the are. they are all into wantting to be with different person. well, that's my opinion.
My husband used to watch porn once in a while before we got married. after we got married he found out what I think about it. He didn't mind not doing it any more, it wasn't that important for him.
I'm very young with 2 kids, and I wound not like my husband doing that, and my kids see something, or me thinking that he is doing something to me in the intimacy that he saw somewhere else, etc. and if he didn't like what he has at home(me :) ) we could just been honest to each other and he could keep been a bachelor back. but, like I said it wasn't anything important that he will argue about.

porn is actually an addiction. it (most likely) has nothing to do with you. i would bet that he had this habit before he met you. that being said, it would not matter if you looked like barbie - it is not your fault/problem. he needs to make the decision to drop this habit and start living in the real world.

You may want to pull up the Dr Phil site on your computer. He has alot to say about porn. I rarely watch his show as it is on at the wrong time in my area for me, but I pulled up his web site yesterday because I had heard a plug on the radio for another show he did that sounded interesting and I had missed it.

In doing so, I stumbled onto some things that he has to say about porn. You may find it interesting, or perhaps it will support your side of things with your husband. Just mentioning it for whatever it is worth.

Ok...you need to pick yourself up! You may never look like an airbrushed girl,but you need to at least feel good about yourself!
Hell,I'm 30 and when I was 18 I didnt look like an airbrushed 18 year old,LOL. Those women dont really look like that in person,I hope you and your husband know that.
I can certainly understand your frustration considering your lack there of sex life.Once in 6 weeks!
Your husband is correct that most men do look at porn.However,most men would also rather have a real,live woman then a image they can never touch.Ask any single guy if he'd rather do "himself" to porn or with a real woman and see what they tell you.
In a normal situation,I'd say porn is not cheating.Being he maybe looks at it once a day and masterbates to it,but also can still have sex with you and wants to.
but considering his lack of intrest for the real thing,your husband needs help. Sounds like he is bordering on an unhealthy obsession.
I think porn is acceptable if it is used to "enhance" your sex life.But clearly,it is making it worse.
I would tell him to get help or threaten to leave.He may think you cant get better,but I think that even you know you could find someone who would have sex with you! Your needs are important too and arent being met.Most men would leave or cheat on a woman for that simple fact.
If he doesnt change,then perhaps you should start looking elsewhere.

wow, Barbara and Jeanr have good points. I too was a wife of a porn addict. Back in the day ...the very beginning, it was just magazines, then BETA and VHS came out, and he discovered video porn. I caught him several times but the embarrasment was too great at the time to confront the problem. I also thought it was me but I am not overweight at all and I'm not unattractive, infact I've always made an effort to be sexy but it didn't matter, He still preffered to stay up late and wait until I was asleep to do his thing. I researched sex addiction and found out much of what Barbara already said, but the marriage was already over for us, too many other problems to try to overcome. It's very very sad. I was married for 17 years, divorced for 9 now.

I think the resourses for this to become an epidemic are great especially with the internet. My ex husband finally got his own computer just recently. The other day my daughter called him at 11 am on a weekday to get car help and he was still asleep. She told me later that he was up all night on the internet....well, I was married to the man, I can nearly bet my life that I knew what he was doing.

Unfortunately this has become a little bit of baggage for me that I dont want to take into a new relationship, but I have an underlying fear that the next guy will favor porn too. I hate porn and I dont understand the fascination men have with it...not in degrees such as you describe or my ex's. I can understand a little bit of it though, I just dont want to know about it. Good luck, I think there aree a lot of women who know your pain right now.