Houston, I think you may have a problem. Sorry. If anyone in that particular conversation is being manipulative and controlling, it's "Jack", keeping you off-kilter. Could he possibly be hoping to totally piss you off, so your next line is, "That's it then! I'm not picking ANY date, and we're not getting married!" ?

Yes, I fear that is exactly what he was hoping. And I, of course, walked straight into the trap and said exactly that. Never, never saw this coming. Now, everything is messed up, and he says that I have deep seated emotional problems that must be dealt with first.

Maybe he's doing you a favor.That was quite painful to read.

IF that is what happened, keep your word and don't get married to him.

Walk away now.

Reality check.....he's got issues.

Rather than discuss what it is about what you picked that he couldn't deal with, he became defensive, began insulting you, belittling you. I think he is the one with the deep seated problems...people will point fingers at others instead of looking at themselves.

Do yourself a favor and have him deal with whatever it is before marrying, because this is just a peek of future events. Don't spend your life trying to figure him out, he needs to do that.

The conversation was a blessing..........

Honey, it's not you that's the one with problems, it's him. Consider you've dodged a bullet, and find someone who won't think messing with your head is a good way of deflecting your attention from his issues.

Walk away? No. Run away. That's verbal abuse if ever I've seen it. You are acting appropriately and he is not. Run.

Sorry - Just another voice joining the chorus.

Even cutting him all the slack in the world (he's nervous about getting married, had a bad day, you pressured him into naming a date) -- If he'd treat you that way now, it would only go from bad to worse, and that's NO way to live.

I think Wanda said it best, and the only 'deep-seated issue' you need to deal with is how you can learn to spot an emotional abuser more quickly next time.

You don't need a reality check. You KNOW.

Ditto what the ladies above said. I'm sorry that you're with a Loser, but you are one of the luckiest women I know. You found out BEFORE you married him.

Now stop kissing frogs and go find a real prince!

Ditto, Thank God & your lucky stars this conversation happened BEFORE the wedding.

End it, quick & clean. No need for further convo with this guy. I can't believe all the names he called you in this conversation. I agree, very painful to read. And your supposed to *want* to marry him? Umm, no.

Get on with your life dear and trust me, he just did you a HUGE favor by showing his true self now.

~Cat

"I make up the rules as I go. What is OK to pick, is something you will find out after you pick it. Whether I approve or not shall be decided by me, at that time."

RUN.

Or get your tubes tied, you want your kids to go through this?

I know that you are all correct about this...

I tried just now, with him, to discuss this one more time, feeling a little braver with some help from you all. He said that I made the entire conversation up in my head. That it never happened. He said and I quote "Do you not realize that you fabricated this entire thing? I strongly suggest you get a grip on reality."

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. HELP.

I did not make it up. I swear it is all true - except the green-eggs-and-ham line. That was, as I said, poetic license, to sum up his stance on that part, which was that he would NEVER agree to it to matter what, and the subject was closed.

It sounds like you are engaged to a nastier version of my husband. Unless you want a "challenging" life where you are constantly walking on eggshells and trying to figure out what will pi$$ him off, I say get out while you can and consider it a bullet dodged. Sorry.

Start the discussion again.....and just keep suggesting dates and don't get mad or defensive or ask what are the rules....just say one date after another and let HIM be the one to say.,...I guess it's not what Iw ant to do.
Do not play his game! His game is to pi$$ you off, don't let him do that.
When he tells you made something up....play along. say" really?!! I didn't ever say "........"? And if he says you did not, go all nutzo on him....say "how could that be? I distinctly remember saying that? Do you think I am losing my mind? Oh dear....how long have you noticed that I don;'t remember what I said!"
yeah....I know, baiting him....but he sounds like he needs his mind messed with!
Linda C

and just now, I received this email from him:

"IâÂÂm not interested in your imagination or playing your games. The only place that conversation took place was in your head. Keep it. DonâÂÂt call me or contact me any more. You obviously need serious help. Good bye."

how could i have been so wrong about this person? Thirty days ago *he* was wanting to get married.

He said that I am insane and that he never said those things. I said, "Are you telling me you never said I was manipulating you? You never said I was being controlling, abnormal, delusional?" He replied, "NO I did not. What I said was, your behavior was manipulative, your behavior was to seek control. I didn't say YOU were those things. You twisted my words and made up some stuff with it and now you are trying to pull me down into your sick delusions. You are insane. So just don't ever call me."

Wow-- I had really thought this guy was so awesome. Having been this wrong, I am beginning to doubt my sanity too.

But I KNOW it happened. I wrote it down right after it happened because it struck me then, that this kind of interaction had happened before. When I made that connection, is why I wrote it down this time. Because I realized it was not the first time he treated me like his dog--holding out a treat and then pulling it away and making me beg for it.

Oh that is just sick.

Sky, someone's who has a personality disorder (and he sounds like he has one!), is likely to make it out like everyone else has the problem. And look, he's convincing you. Don't doubt your sanity! Don't play his game. If you're still really considering him, take a break and don't take any calls, visits, letters, emails, anything from him. I think if you distance yourself, you'll soon see how you were right all along and he was just trying to shake you. Don't let him win. He is the manipulator, he's controlling, he's abnormal, he's delusional. That's projecting. Projecting is his way of making it like the whole world is wrong and he's right. Listen to him, he's telling you everything he is, not what you are. Watch him close. Every time he says something about what "you" are like, take a mental note and then just observe him. He'll be doing whatever he accused you of in no time!

Sick is right!

Here is a link that might be useful: Here's the personality disorder I would guess!

I was thinking NPD as well. Narcissists are soooooo good at being oh so charming, getting you on the hook, and then messing with your head and making out YOU are the one with the problem. Even enlisting others to buy into the notion that YOU have the problem: couldn't be the narcissist because he/she is sooooooooo nice/smart/perfect- they know because he/she constantly tells them so!
Don't be discouraged that you fell for his line; you're not the first and you won't be the last. Take a deep breath, thank whatever powers that be that you didn't get any further enmeshed with this jerk, and enjoy being yourself for a while.

Actually, I was thinking NPD also -- That's exactly what they do. They have rational and reasonable explanations for everything that always boil down to it somehow being your fault.

And what I said before: "the only 'deep-seated issue' you need to deal with is how you can learn to spot an emotional abuser more quickly next time"

Actually, you did really well to spot the problem pre-marriage, and you would do well to continue to listen to your gut. SO MANY PEOPLE don't, and narcissists are some of the trickiest, slickest, nastiest types to spot. So long as you put them on a pedestal and make them appear/feel wonderful, then you are also wonderful. But if you ever disappoint them, or worse, embarass them, then Look Out!

Do not let this man back into your life. Take a firm stand for your mental health and future happiness, and realize that the 'nut job' is him. If you ever doubt, come back to this post and reread.

Unbelievable! But I do believe it.

Just adding my voice to all the others. It is wonderful that he has broken it off with you, so that you don't have to go through any more of his "messing with your head!" Even if now right now, you will be forever grateful for not having married him.

When you do not go back begging and pleading, he may well become nice and try to get you back again. Don't fall for it! Not unless you want to end up doubting your own sanity and being made miserable all the time. Just tell him (hiding your tongue in cheek), "Oh, now that I realize how insane I am, I could never put you through being married to someone with all my problems." And stick to that.

You have indeed dodged a bullet. Do some things you enjoy doing and any grief you feel from this sudden upset will soon go away.

Question for you... how long did you date? Did he ever do this before?

If he really wanted to marry you it wouldn't matter on which day, where, or how. All that would matter is you standing beside him, making a commitment.

I have a friend who kept breaking it off with her BF and she told me the last time that it was amazing, because she could go back and read her journals and see the pattern each time. She said it was totally predictable. Writing it down was smart.

AND, even if you did "make it up" he's still being mean and rude. Someone really in love with you would have dealt with your 'disillusion' a lot more kindly.

So double up on the "THANK GOODNESS" and go buy yourself a hot fudge or take a bubble bath or go out with girlfriends. Marriage should not start out like that. You deserve better.

Silver, my guess to your question 'Did he ever do this before' -

Because I realized it was not the first time he treated me like his dog--holding out a treat and then pulling it away and making me beg for it.

I was wondering if she really saw him treat his dog that way, or if it was a figurative description.

[Silver....I think stray_cat is NPD or BPD (borderline personality disorder) too....]

I dated him for one year. I realized that he did, in other types of situations, encourage me to dream something and then disagree with it. Not specifically about the wedding in those cases. Jessyf--Yes I did see him hold out a treat to his dog and then make her beg for it, I was just using that as metaphor for how this made me feel.

We have been engaged over six months. Three months ago he took a long distance job. I did not agree with this decision, and was going to break up with him then because my feelings on it didn't matter. But he promised me that it would all be OK and that he still wanted to marry me. it turned out he wouldn't really actively plan the wedding and kept saying "anything you want" but then there was always some problem with my choice. In this case I was trying to do just a small wedding over the Christmas holidays because everyone would be in town at the same time.

I was right three months ago, I should have stuck to my guns then.

I wish there was an edit feature on these boards. What I mean to say is, "other situations where he would encourage me to dream something and then refuse to go along with it." Those others were small things and I just let them go. Like taking me to the video store and saying "honey, get whatever you want" and then just absolutely refusing to get what I wanted. And this is when I didn't even ask to go to the video store in the first place. It was all his idea, like he was doing something nice for me, and then he would take it away.

If I were you...I'd copy and paste this entire thread and send it to him via e-mail to let him know you know HE is the crazy one and we all know he is too!
God,this is a new low.To try to make someone doubt their own sainity just to break up instead of just saying this isnt working for me.

Jesse, thanks! I somehow missed that it happened before. I don't know how... (and thank you for the validation. I was beginning to feel like I was crazy there for a while!)

Sky, there is an awesome exerpt I want to share with you from a book. It's been posted here before, but I don't know where, so I will post it under a new thread because it's kind of long. Basically it discusses "The Toxic Man" and the warning signs. When I look back at many of my relationships the warning signs were there but I didn't have enough space to see what was really going on. I hope it helps you. I hope you aren't too crushed. I would be crushed.

OK...I'm a guy....and I don't "get" all the wedding stuff and do resent some of it....however, what you've described isn't really wedding-related. What you've described is a nut-case. This isn't how sane people discuss or even argue with loved/respected people -- or even casual acquaintances. Be grateful he displayed his psychosis early!

He will call you and apologize in some way. He won't acknowledge anything, but he will say something like he did not mean to break up with you. Or after breaking up he realizes how much he misses you and how much you mean to him. Please don't give in. Don't fall for it. Don't answer his calls or emails.

Please do not send him this thread. It will only fuel his fire that he will again direct at you. You don't need this. You don't need him. Stop trying to convince yourself that you do. Stop trying to figure out your part in this, you did not ask for it. Your role was dictated by him as his target. The more you think about him, the more you talk about the situation, the more you are trying to convince yourself of something, but there is nothing. The more you convince yourself, the more vulnerable you will be and likely to give in and give him another chance. You will only be asking for what you get at that point, and there truly will be more to come. Stop being hurt. That was his intention, so don't allow him any more control over you. Find something to occupy your time to get him off your mind. You were duped into investing yourself, your life, your feelings into this man. Don't do it to yourself this time. Just move on.

Ditto Asolo and Thermometer... and please let us know how you are doing!

sounds awful. you are so lucky you found it out now.

HE needs a reality check! For very practical reasons, usually, its the bride-to-be who picks the wedding date. (Who else but her who knows her menstral cycle, and can best predict the best time?) In my book, the bride picks the date and checks with the groom for any conflicts.

If he is not aware of this practicality, educate him.