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Emotionless wife! Help!

Posted by blizzard19 (My Page) on
Wed, Oct 31, 07 at 23:38

My wife and I have been together for 15 years, married for 12. We have two children ages 9 and 7. I love my wife dearly and she says she loves me. My wife puts ALL of her time and energy into other things (mostly the kids), and none into me or the marriage. Additionally, she shows VERy little emotion or affection toward me such as hugging, touching, kissing, etc., except we do kiss good morning and good night. We do have sex on occasion, but it is quick, because she sleeps with the kids so we have to do it during the day when the kids aren't calling for her (if they do she up and runs).

I am very romantic and I need intamacy. I want contact. I want hugs and kisses and to sleep together. I want to go away for weekends, which she won't do. I want to hold her hand on occasion, or just come up behind her and wrap my arms around her for just a few seconds. I have offered, for years, to give her massages, neck rubs (sorta the same thing) foot rubs, brush her hair, tickle her back, or ANYTHING that just feels good, WITHOUT it leading to sex.

I understand that we are a married couple that has been together for 15 years total. We are fortunate that we are both in very good shape and fairly attractive (others opinions). I am VERY attracted to her, and she says the same. I am not asking for excessive contact, I am asking for ANY contact.

She will give our kids, and even the dog, hugs and kisses, but not me. I will ask her 'do you want a divorce or do you want someone else?' and she always says no. I have asked for years what she wants and her answer is always the same - "for everything to stay the same".

I can't have it stay the same, I'm going crazy. We've talked about it to death. We started therapy and it made ir worse. What can I do?

B


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Kids are 9 and 7 and she sleeps with them? Whoa! Looks to me like like your problem is MUCH deeper than just her treatment of you. This is serious strangeness.

You've already asked her what she wants. May I assume you've told her what you want?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

asolo,

she sleps with them in our bed. she has slept with one or both of them for all but about 14 days (not consecutive) since our son was born (almost 10 years ago). there ARE other issues with the kids, but that is another story :-)

yes, i have told her literally dozens of times over the past ten years, sometimes in tears (mine) what i need from her. and again, it is not just sex, although i would like more, this is all about just a very simple touch. i even told her that if she would even reach out and brush my arm as she walked by once in a while it would make a difference. it sounds as if she is a cold shrill, but she is not.

and to answer another question not yet asked. neither one of us is seeing anyone else. yes, i am sure. i am a computer trainer and expert, she is not. i respect privacy, but i checked to the point of not crossing the line.

thanks


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I doubt she is having an affair. But, if you're a computer expert, what makes you think she'd be dumb enough to leave any affair evidence on the computer? It is possible to have an affair without involving the computer, you know.

Anyway, was she abused...(physically, emotionally or even sexually as a child)? I often find abused people often have big problems with intimacy.

Someone else on a different thread mentioned the fact that different people just need different levels of intimacy. It sounds like she is happy as is, and obviously, you are not. Don't know what the answer is, or how to change or compromise.

The kid sleeping thing seems VERY odd to me too. Granted, maybe your kids are autistic or something but I'm not understanding why she feels the need to be so close to them at that age. It is almost like she is using them as substitutes for having to get close to you.

I've heard horror stories about therapy, and agree that many times it can make problems worse. But, 'maybe' a different therapist would help... or maybe just going separately? I am curious as to what happened in your sessions to make you think the situation got worse; can you share?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

How long has it been like this? It sounds like she has love to give, (kissing the kids and the dog), but does not give it to you? There is a reason for everything. If she used to be intimate, did it stop overnight? Or, did it gradually drift off? If she is not telling you what is wrong, or why she feels no need to touch or be touched, maybe you need to talk to her family or friends. I know it may seem like going behind her back, but it sounds like your marriage is at stake.

The sleeping with the kids thing is nuts. I have a 8 year old autistic nephew and he sleeps alone at night. She needs to be in bed with you.

Good luck to you. If it makes you feel better, I'm sure there are alot of ladies on this forum who wish their husbands would offer back and foot rubs. You sound like a good man and deserve to be loved the way you want.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

She's using the kids as 'human shields' plain and simple. Or perhaps, not so simple, and there's more to it -- but having the kids in bed effectively eliminates the possibiity of doing anything else in the bed, and if that's something she wants, she's found a surefire way to get it.

Trouble is, it's damaging for the kids at this late age and very damaging to your marriage. Since she's very involved with your children, she may even be able to see this if presented properly by a trained professional.

It sounds like she is avoiding intimacy *in all forms* with you -- and there's a reason for this. You (plural you) need to find out what that reason is and if there's any help for it. If the first counselor didn't work, try another. I'd also like to say that I appreciate your desire for emotional intimacy as well as sexual intimacy, and I'm sure your wife does to, at some level.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I totally agree with sweeby.

Instead of asking your wife what she wants,why dont you just tell her that things CANT stay the same.You are not happy.
And while my daughter may sleep with me for a bad dream or something (and she has had health issues since she was 3)every night is just insane.
It is no wonder you are so frustrated.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

thank you all. where to start, but trying to be brief..

she realizes that she is not helping the kids. she 'wants' them to sleep in their beds, but as soon as they cry or whine, she gives in. she says she wants us to sleep alone (as she always says she loves me and never wants us to be apart), but never does anything about it. we always agree in theory on discipline issues with the kids, but as soon as one of them cries or even is inconvenienced in any single way, she immediately 'turns' on me (not nasty, but sides with the kids).

she puts her thoughts every day into these things: the kids; school (PTA, things for the kids for school, play dates); the house; her brothers busninesses; and her parents. she give no thought to me or the marriage. there is no 'what does bill need or what can i do today for my marriage...'. never. neither of us has any real 'friends' that we talk to or go out with. she (literally) has no time to see anyone else (i am not being naieve). i work from home and i literally know better.

i understand being married 12 years and together 15. she was never really affectionate, but not to this degree. she has supplemented the kids for me, but i had asked her over and over and over for the past 10 years to please give me a LITTLE more. i, honestly, am not being suffocating here. i literally am asking to hold my wife in bed ONCE a month (well, sleep together as default, HOLD once). maybe touch her with my hand once or twice a night a few times a month.. NOT suffocating. she told the therapist that these things are NOT repulsive or anything like that, there was just no reason...

no, she was never abused, raped, etc...

here is the reason i posted yesterday..

i have been wanting to send her flowers for months, but never have because she considers it a waste of money (money is NOT an issue, we are very comfortable). she would rather spend the money on a pair of shoes for our daughter (note: she will not buy stuff for herself to save her life, lol). i traveled to Detroit on wednesday morning at 7am and was supposed to be gone for a full day and come back thursday. i kissed her goodbye and told her i loved her (and she me). she went in at 10am that morning to work for her brother's (ahem) pizza shop (as a favor, not for money). i knew this, so i called the florist directly behind the pizza shop because they always get stuff and walk over to get it. i asked them (florist) to send a single red rose and a card over to my wife as a surprise. i asked for the following on the card 'you are more beautiful to me each day, and i cannot wait to see you tomorrow'. the flower and card was supposed to arrive between 11 and 11:30 so i was expecting her call when i got to detroit.

she call at 11:10 and i was really excited when the phone rang and saw her name. i picked it up, said hello, and she said, in a very monotone and matter a fact voice 'i got the flowers, thanks'. i hesitated for a few seconds and said, 'did you get the card?' to which she said yes. i assumed that she was around some people and didn't want to 'gush' so i asked her to call me when she was on her way back from a scheduled delivery that i knew she was making. she called 15 minutes later and i asked her again, did you get the flowers, and she said, again, in a voice like i had just filled her gas tank for her, 'yes i did, thanks'.

i was completely floored and disheartened. she was around people the first time, but this time she was by herself. i expected her to say 'oh, thank you honey, i really loved them and the card, it was soo sweet, i love you'. or at least 5 of those words. i was so at a loss for words that i didn't say anything else to her, i just sat there on the phone. she said something else like 'good luck' to me (on the business that i was up there for). i would have typically told her something like 'thank you, i love you, i'll call you later.' i was so hurt and shocked and hearbroken that i said in my most sarcastic voice i could muster 'um, thanks'. and hung up the phone.

i thought that women liked flowers. i thought that sending my wife flowers from hundreds of miles away meant something. i thought that red roses meant love...

i don't know what to think...

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I think she's pretty twisted and I think she's well on her way to turning your kids into incapable, dysfunctional little birds that will have tremendous difficulty getting on with life as they grow.

I have insufficient background/expertise to express a more meaningful opinion but I have seen your situation among my friends/acquaintances. The outcome for the children was never good.

I pity you, but I despair for the kids.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but most people with major intimacy problems have been abused. I know most people think to define "abuse" as either physical or sexual in nature, when in reality, emotional or verbal abuse can play a very big factor in a person not being able to maintain intimate relationships with spouses. In fact her lack of intimacy with you is probably a form of abuse in and of itself. Were either of her parents very controlling, or overly critical? That is probably the type of abuse that would cause her to have intimacy issues with you.

If you are sure her intimacy issues are not linked to a previous abusive relationship (maybe even a long time old lover), I would tend to think they may be linked to a medical condition (depression, hormone imbalance, thyroid, etc)... but I'm still leaning towards her problem being linked to abuse. People usually fear or are unable to be intimate for a reason... It's not generally a "choice".


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

There is no way for any of us to make a fair judgment of her, without seeing the entire picture or knowing her side. What we can determine are that the facts point to a problem, namely that she is sleeping with prepubescent children, which is not a good idea.

Did you talk to her about the rose situation? Did you tell her you were disappointed by her reaction, and if so, what was her response? If you didn't talk to her about it, why not? Sometimes we get hurt so badly because our expectations are not met - but you still need to be able to express those things to her.

You mentioned that she does not like to receive flowers. How does she like to be loved? If you don't know, ask her -

What are the things that keep you together, from your point of view? Does she show loving behaviors towards you at all - if not the way you want it, at least in a way that she's comfortable with it?

What was her family of origin like when she was growing up and still today, in terms of expressions of love?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Blizzard

I think that was a lovely gesture, with the rose. I would love that, if that was me.

To me, it seems your wife does not love you. I know this sounds harsh, but if she genuinely is not prepared to listen, and act on your heartfelt requests for more intimacy, then her heart is not into it.

I think your behavior sounds reasonable.

Her focus on the children is unhealthy. She is not doing them any favours by smothering them in this way. It will have a lasting effect on them. Perhaps you need to focus on this issue and seek guidance. How is your relationship with the children ?

I wish you well.

P


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

wow, you all have some very good insights. let me answer a few.

Were either of her parents very controlling, or overly critical? Yes. Her father and his side of the family is and was critical and mean. They can yell and scream at each other one minute and seem like it never happened the next. I've never been able to understand it. She had a bad Italian temper when I met her, but she never raises her voice, like me (I guess I just rubbed off).

There is no way for any of us to make a fair judgment of her, without seeing the entire picture or knowing her side. - True, and I started to consider this. She is really a great person and overall a very very concerned mother. She really wants the best for us all. She knows, intellectually, that the kids need to sleep in their own beds (she literally just mentioned it 5 minutes ago), but it never comes to fruition. She knows the things that they need to become their own individuals, but, I don't know how to explain it... She really is bright, has common sense, is wonderful in the PTA, etc. etc.

Did you talk to her about the rose situation? - Yes
Did you tell her you were disappointed by her reaction, and if so, what was her response? Yes, she said I was overreacting.

You mentioned that she does not like to receive flowers. How does she like to be loved? If you don't know, ask her - she just doesn't. i've offered to take her to jamaica. i've offered to take her clothes shopping. i've offered to take her to the local winery just to sit and talk. i've offered to just run a jacuzzi and sit in it. and of course i've offered the other things i've mentioned (massages, brush her hair, etc. etc.,) i haven't said this yet, but i do want more sex but that was never the main crux. i just want emotion and intimacy. but even during sex, out 'time' is always limited to 10 minutes or less (at best). i would love to have more, and quite frankly, service her. don;t get me wrong, she, um, finishes, or at least she always has (she has been fortunate in this area since we first met).

What are the things that keep you together, from your point of view? Great question. I've asked her if she wants to stay married and she says yes. I've asked if she wants me to leave or if she wants someone else and she says no. I ask what the hell she wants and her answer is always the same 'for things to stay the same'.

Does she show loving behaviors towards you at all - if not the way you want it, at least in a way that she's comfortable with it? She wants things to stay the same. We kiss hello and goodbye, and have sex about once a month (10 minutes). Other than that we don't get within about 2 feet of each other any other time. I need contact. I want hugs, touches, even a LOOK. I love my wife. I want her. sigh.

To me, it seems your wife does not love you - She says she does...

Her focus on the children is unhealthy. - Everyone says so and she says that she recognizes it...I do not know what it will take...

How is your relationship with the children - Excellent, I love them as much as she does, but I obviously try to draw those boundries and enforce the discipline. I sometimes back off on the discipline because I do not want to make my wife unhappy because my biggest fear is that when my children are unhappy my wife is unhappy. If my wife is unhappy my fear is that she will leave me, or ask me to leave...

pitiful, i know. we have a therapy session tomorrow, i think there may be something about depression medication for her. you all have been a tremendous help, even for letting me talk about this. i would still like any comments that anyone would be willing to offer.

thank you very much.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

For the sake of the children's development, especially, I hope you are able to make progress. She's damaging everyone by being this way. Something deep and dangerous is going on.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

To sum it all up, it seems like your wife takes you for granted and doesn't appreciate you. That in itself is a huge mistake with any relationship.

She needs to put the kids in their own beds and let them cry themself to sleep. They'll get used to being in their own beds and the crying will eventually stop. YOU need to be stern about that. I agree that your wife is using the kids as a shield so she doesn't have to get intimate and you need to find out why, if that's possible.

You seem like the kind of guy that every woman would appreciate. Your wife doesn't know how good she has it. Hence my comment about being non-appreciative.

Maybe the two of you need to have a date night once a month for starters and see where it goes from there. Inform the kids that they are NOT to be found in your bed when you get home.

I've heard that alot of times, after couples have children, the wife strays from the husband and focuses all her attention on the children - not fair. Some women feel that sex is 'dirty' after having kids. Let her know that you are part of the family and you feel like you're being neglected in every way, shape, form. Tell her what you'd like from her (a pinch on the tush once in awhile, a kiss on the neck, or a nibble on the ear), and other things - ongoing...not just for a week. Ask her if she finds you attractive and sexy. Tell her you need special time with her (even if it's watching a movie while lying together on the sofa).

I agree, you can't keep living like that. After all, you still have many years before the kids are grown and out of the house. She needs to come to her senses before it's too late.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I'm glad you are going to therapy tomorrow. Even though it seems to have made things "worse" - in therapy, if therapy is doing it's job, people should feel a certain level of discomfort, otherwise there is no indication of change. Change is painful - it's painful to recognize a need for change, painful to accept the past unhappiness, painful to accept responsibility - all that pain sometimes leads to more fighting, etc - the important thing is to keep talking, to each other. You could be the changing agent here - don't give up quite yet. If she's going to therapy with you, and from her point of view she's satisfied with her life, then she's going for you, and that's a loving act. Look for ways that she shows her love to you, and acknowledge those things first - baby steps -

I read something in your last post. Do you see yourself like her dad? Maybe that's something to talk about in therapy. Not that yelling is so awful but perhaps her reaction to you has a bit to do with her seeing you as an authority figure rather than as a lover - I dont' know. Stab in the dark. This doesn't mean you are to blame or need to change per se, but rather it's important to look at that dynamic and how she interprets it. Just a thought.

PS. How did you know she loved you enough for you to marry her? Have those indications changed?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Well... let me put some different perspective on this... first... the perspective of the wife... this could be me... the perspective of the husband is in no way, no how, my husband... we've got some very different issues with his behaviors and attidudes :-(

Our children are 15, 12 and 8... They all slept in our bed from infancy. My husband travels 5-14+ days at a time. It was easier for me as a working full time mother and disturbed my sleep less to just roll over to take care of them. When dad was home, he didn't want his sleep disturbed by the children crying in their rooms... so again, it was easier and quieter to just keep them in bed with me. To this day, when he is out of town the two girls will sleep with me... one on either side. and my son? well he won't stay the night, but he will come lay down with me and then will ask me to come up to his room to sleep with him for a while. Personally, I figure the day will definitely be coming when they will no longer be caught doing such a thing, so I enjoy it while it lasts... and don't get too upset about it.. unless they are waking me up!

Intimacy with my husband... is pretty much as non-existant as yours is... yes, he's like more, and I'm the one with the "hesitancy"... Lets' see... again my issues here sound differeent rom yours... my husband is the most uncaring, unromantic, loving, toucy person there can be... I can't remember the last time he touched me when it wasn't in bed, and to be honest I can't recall the last time I've gotten a kiss... our anniversary (16 years) went by with out a word, as did my most recent birthday. No comment, no card, no present, no dinner out with OUT the kids, no nothing. For the most part he treats me with less respect and care than he treats his secretary. His employees are treated better and spoken to nicer. This leaves me with little intrest in sex with him... Why would I want to have sex with someone who can't be polite to me? And don't even go into satisfaction... I can't remember the last time sex wasn't all about him.

OK, to be fair, I am 50+ and menopausal... but I do take HRT... which has improved my hormonal "Issues"

So, does your wife have "issues" with how she was raised and want to do "different" with her own children? Is she (or was she) trying to make her and/or your life easier originally by moving your children into your bed? Do you give her credit for the amount of time and effort it really takes to be a stay at home mom? Do you have child care arranged when you ask her about taking off for a night, weekend, etc?... This is a pet peeve of mine... my husband will ask me about a weekend trip away.. but then not think about what we would do with our 3 children.... and no we do not have any relatives anywhere near and the grandparents are either dead or too old to care for them if we were to fly them out... so his asking is sort of like rubbing salt in a wound... Think long and hard, are you really being polite and nice to her day in day out, or just when it suits your needs?

So much of what you wrote wanted me to think this was MY husband writing... until I read your own self evaluation of YOU... are you sure it was honest?

I do love my husband, I want our marriage to work (despite the affair I did catch him in), and my answer also has been that I want things to remain the same... but you know what, at the end of the day, I'm basically single parenting here... and I have tons of resentment about that... especially when he breezes in and acts like some returning conqueror who should be honored.... and then wonders who I don't want to be intimate...


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

You say she means well,but we wives arent supposed to take our mates for granted,when our children will leave us in the end.As much as she loves your kids,she should be able to see she is doing them more harm then good.They need to learn to "coddle" themselves and grow some independance.
If they get much older and their friends ever find out,they are going to be ridiculed as well.
It just doesnt seem like it's in the children's best interests.It definitely seems like an excuse to keep her distance from you.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Blizzard

I have been thinking of your dilemma today.

If your wife says she loves you, then ask her, how does she show you that she loves you ?

We show people we love them, by our actions. If she is not forthcoming in that way, then how are you supposed to feel loved ?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I recommend taking the kids and the dog on some trips with you and leaving the wife home. The habit of sleeping with mom will be easier to break in the kids, they have less baggage.

I have to tell you though, I don't think your wife will change very much. She seems to have withdrawn physically from you in increments in a search for the balance point where your complaints about it won't be frequent enough to bother her.

You need to decide if you can continue in a relationship that will never fulfill your emotional/physical intimacy needs. As Popi stated "We show people we love them, by our actions. If she is not forthcoming in that way, then how are you supposed to feel loved ?"



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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

plumbly - i am very sorry for your situation. i also have been extremely honest in everything that i have written here. to answer a few questions:

Do you give her credit for the amount of time and effort it really takes to be a stay at home mom? Yes, even just the other night before she got into bed (with kids) i stopped her, turned her to me and said 'i appreciate you'. to be COMPLETELY honest, i saw this on an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, but i DID say it to her. this was in addition to telling her, daily, that i love her.

Are you really being polite and nice to her day in day out, or just when it suits your needs? I am a very even kel person. I do not yell, argue (maybe to a fault), fight, scream, and especially hit. her parents (especially father) yelled, screamed, and was an extremely volitile (spelling) person. he was 'controlling' to the degree of protecting her from normal teenage stuff. she moved from her parents home after graduating college to my home. maybe to answer a question not asked yet, she had other boyfriends (none abusive), and was in love with one (talked about marriage but no engagement).

Popi-

If your wife says she loves you, then ask her, how does she show you that she loves you ?

she says she does not know. she told the therapist the same thing. but she told the therapist the same thing too - that she loves me.

videogamer -

recommend taking the kids and the dog on some trips with you and leaving the wife home-

she would never 'allow' it to happen. me force it? no, she would be too upset. i can barely take my daughter to dinner with me alone without her 'worrying' too much.

thanks again all!! i very much appreciate it!!

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I'm sorry, but then why did you originally say....

"no, she was never abused" when I had asked, and now you are painting her father as the devil incarnate? Either she was abused as a child or she wasn't; which is it?

I have to say I am not comfortable with the way you see you self so, so positively. I have a friend who is considering divorce...her husband gave her flowers just the other day, (which she barely acknowleged too), he also helps her with housework, seems like an ideal husband in public but he is very controlling, passive agressive and belittles her and her children every chance he gets. The flowers mean nothing to her because of it. I'm not saying you are like him; it's just that you probably aren't as perfect as you think and there 'could' be real reasons she didn't seem to appreciate the flowers.

Quite honestly, the fact that you say you "do not yell, argue (maybe to a fault), fight, or scream," is NOT normal and probably NOT a positive thing. It sounds to me like you are not putting yourself in any confrontational situations, and/or are not able to handle confrontation at all which can be a huge communication/intimacy problem in and of itself within a family. Some of the most disfunctional families are the ones that sweep eveything under the rug and don't ever fight or argue about anything. Maybe your wife needs a little passion, someone who's not afraid to challenge and debate her about politics, tell her she's wrong, or even 'demand' that the kids not sleep with her. Maybe you're not fulfilling that need in her.?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I'm wondering why she's withholding herself so completely from you --

-- Is it fear? (Of what? That you'll see the 'real' her and won't like it? Is her self-esteem so low that she feels unworthy of true intimacy? That you'll leave her?)
-- Is it anger? (Again, at what? Is she furious at you for some deep dark reason and punishing you with her withdrawal? Is she angry at the way her life has turned out? Is she angry that you "don't love her enough to yell and rant and rave?" because that's how she perceives love?)
-- Is she so depressed she's going robotically through a set of motions?

I'm also wondering if she's such a soft touch with the kids in other ways. If she'll give in to their whines on the bed issue, does she give into their whines on every other issue as well? Because if so, that's a huge problem -- If not, then what she 'says' she wants and what she's doing are not consistent, and she's just making excuses.

Either way, therapy --


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Get your wife to post here.

You said "she says she does not know how she shows you she loves you ". She sounds intimidated by you.

Just take the children out for a short trip, to the shops.

Most mother's would love the silence, the peace, the time alone. Someone else to share the responsibility. She needs to discover this joy, for herself.

Does she even know who she is ? She is lost in your family life.

P


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

blizzard... I'm thinking she's just tired and worn out from her time being mom... this really is a 24/7 job, with negligible down time. can you "arrange" an overnight or weekend away when you plan childcare for the kids and then "spring" it on her? Whe won't have the "excuse" of no one to care for the kids, and you get some 'alone' time to maybe try to figure out what the real problem is here...

me??? I'm guessing she is overwhelmed and needs down time, doesn't want to admit she isn't handling parenting well, and also is carrying 'baggage' from her upbringing... doesn't want to be like mom? dad?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

about her father... he was not an abusive person to her, but to all others, i guess i missed that distinction, sorry.

my wife is definitely not intimidated by me, but i guess that is easy for me to say on here.

i did not mean to paint myself in the the complete positive light. i attempted to to show that i am very insecure (i believe that i mentioned that) and have issues that i am working out in therapy. i also mentioned that i have backed off in discipling the kids, not because of fear of authority, but because of fear of making my wife upset. that is a serious character flaw on my part. the fact that i do not yell or argue has been debated, and i am not sure, still, whether it is a positive or negative. i do know that i have passion, and that i do not need to show it by getting angry at someone.

with that said...we had a wonderful therapy session today. we have a plan laid out by the therapist for the marriage. she has an individual session for herself so that she can be seen to POSSIBLY start to be put on medication for depression or hormonol imbalance. AND she has an appt. this thursday for a complete physical and blood work for physical problems that could be causing 'problems'. it was a very good day.

i plan to have her read this post and reply as it seems that some believe i have not been honest. she can respond as she seems appropriate. my only concern is people believing it is her :-)

thanks again to all who belive and helped.

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Actions speak louder than words, and your wife does not seem to love you.

There's two sides to every story. Blizzard, I don't doubt that you are telling us the truth, but sometimes we're in self-denial.

You're not going to find a "magical" cure for your marriage here on this forum. You and your wife need counseling, and you have a long road ahead of you to rehabing your marriage and family. (Get her to do this for your childrens' sake.)

Get yourself a Christian counselor. The Bible makes it very clear what the roles of each spouse is to one another for a fulfilling and happy marriage. Ask your church to point you in the right direction. If you don't belong or go to church, now is a nice time to start.

I don't believe you will achieve happiness in your marriage any other way.

My heart goes out to you, your children, and your wife. You will be in my prayers.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

"The Bible makes it very clear..."

Oh, please! Must someone always toss that in?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

What's so bad about that? I myself wouldn't say it, but I've seen worse. Maybe if she's a Godfearing person it's the one thing that might get her going - ! Texas hottie is right to say there are two sides to every story.

I'm glad your counselor has given you hope.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

The Bible doesn't always make many things very clear, IMHO... that's why there are so many different religions, faiths, and interpretations. Probably wouldn't hurt matters consulting with a religious person if you are religious though.

Anyway, I hope the OP and others don't misunderstand what I was trying to say about confrontation. I, in no way, want to suggest that people should be name calling, yelling and hitting each other and/or arguing about everything they can think of. It's just that when two people love each other and if they want to communicate about real things and have indepth discussions they are going to disagree about things. No two people think alike about everything. There are fair ways to fight, and many things really should be discussed and somewhat settled even though confrontation may arise (the children sleeping with mom thing for example).

The link below may explain better what I am trying to get at. As it notes... If irritating issues are unresolved, it can build an emotional distance between a couple. I don't know how bad you are, but, I'm also saying that if you are a "yes" man, just to avoid confrontation, well, she may not have a lot of respect for you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fighting Fair


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I can more than relate to the OP. He is possibly looking down the barrel of a gun. A life long sentence with no possible hope of recusal.

Often times these situations evolve into a way of life. Different interventions are applied but bring only temporary change.

There are probably instances where couples in marriage with a disparity in sex drive obtain success wherein both parties agree to compromise for the sake of the marriage.

It may work for some, but oftentimes there remain feelings of rejection and hurt. People want to be wanted by their life partners. They don't like to feel that they are making a bargain in order to obtain the interest of their partner in order to engage in lovemaking. That is what it is called, isn't it? They don't want their spouses to throw them a crumb. Or, give them "mercy" sex. It seems so hollow.

Maybe, even those who enjoy a vibrant sex will eventually descend to levels of gloom and boredom at some point. At least they can always cherish the memories of their time together when there was a wonderful "love story". That is a bond that can last a lifetime and the glue that holds them together.

Whenever the duldrums set in you can take a fond walk down memory lane, bringing back fresh, happy,thoughts of your loved one which are cherished. Reminding yourself of that can help to propel you back to a vibrant and fulfilling engaged sexual/intimate life together.

Denying each other that aspect of marriage is bound to create long lasting angry and disappointed memories. Those things are certainly not good fodder for your future lives together.

Couples who struggle with this issue need all the help they can get. It is often times the death knoll for a marriage. There is much at stake.

If this is occurring in a marriage, every avenue should be explored in an effort to save the marriage.

You can surely stay together in an unhappy situation such as described but it will be harmful to both parties and the children will also suffer growing up with two unhappy parents.

There are other alternatives if intervention does not work or the refuser doesn't want to try to work at it. You can always work at detachment and acceptance. If things continue on without change, and you don't want to leave, then you need to find a way to live in Peace.

Best of Luck!


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Looking forward to hearing from Mrs Blizzard.

Glad you had a good therapy session.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

blizzard...

I'm hoping the med's solve some of the problems for you... I will fully admit that I ave a very different outlook on life since the hormone meds... those being out of wack can really screw with your life...

don't know about your wife... but I had wicked bad insomnia which the correct hormone levels have seriously helped with... I will say the anti depression med's were stopped as they put me in a haze and I was just sort of going with the flow while on them... didn't like how they made me feel...

Hopefully you find that a lot of the issue is medically minor, and then you both can get past the hurts caused by the lack of closeness for so long...


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Not to knock church, a (mostly) lovely institution, but it is obviously QUITE possible to have a happy marriage and not be a church-goer, Bible-reader or even Christian (I am assuming there are happy marriages in the Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim sections of the world).

The OP strikes me as a sweet man but as far as his marriage goes, painfully insecure. In my experience the more you chase after someone, the further they will back away. Perhaps if the OP were to change his steps, focus more on his own happiness and that of his children, his wife would respond differently as well. Unfortunately you cannot "extract" love from someone with gifts, avowals, etc. The best way to win love is to be lovable-- engaged with the world around you, playful and loving with the kids, interested in life & generally having a good time. Better than mournfully waiting on crumbs of affection from an inert spouse.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I don't usually post here, and I'm not looking to fan any fires.

I do hold an opinion, which I am entitled to---it's okay if you disagree with me. I believe that if your marriage is founded on a Christian faith and that couple continues to nourish that faith, they will be blessed with happiness. Marriage is a union that God created.

The Bible DOES make it very clear what a spouse's roles are.

I recognize that there are many faiths/religions because of how texts are interpretted. Religion is personal---you are to ask God to help reveal the Bible to you as you read. It'll happen. I don't make issue of one religion to another---usually the differences are minor and we're all aiming for the same goals. :)

I believe the OP and his wife need to go back to the basics and start to rebuild from scratch. They need to "strip" everything back until they are at the bare bones of where they can find common ground. I am hoping that they both are of the same faith/religion. Then it is possible to find a counselor/pastor that both will respect. That religion should have structured "values" that the couple can rebuild upon and grow within.

This distance in the relationship has happened over a period of time and there is no quick-fix.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I'm just wondering are the answers in the Old or New Testament? Because for some reason, and I'm just guessing, but I'm gonna bet that you say you have to be Christian to get this benefit, or are Jewish people privy to this info. too?

Anyway, even if the bible holds the key to the spouses roles, just knowing those roles does not logically translate into a good or happy marriage. If one party is not willing or able to fulfill their part (as in many of these threads) what good is knowing what the right role is? It's just not as easy as telling the wife she must summit to her husband; and the husband that he should never leave his wife. Or that marraige is a convenant with God. What if there is sexual abuse involved that is directed towards children? Should a mother just pray it goes away? What if a husband keeps cheating on his wife and passing along STD's? What if your spouse just refuses to ever sleep with you?

I'm assuming this faith healing and counseling will usually only work if both parties are really open to it and are somewhat decent people to begin with. And, I don't doubt that it doesn't bring some couples closer together, but I'm just not seeing it as the end all solution for many of these problems.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

For people who subscribe to a faith (based on Bible principles) would probably be helpful for those people.

If a believer is suffering from dysfunction because they were raised "strict" and have feeling of guilt or shame or from prior experiences they might turn off. Scripture supports sex within the context of marriage as a good and healthy and important in marriage. A person would have to not just go to the therapy, they would also have to want to release old patterns and open up to that revelation. I firmly believe that a person will never change for someone else (spouse). They have to feel that they way they are is hurtful to themself. I think that they would have to reach a point where they don't like how they are and want to change. If they feel that they like how they are and like it that way then what is the point?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Carla, thanks for posting. I'll try to answer the best I can--but I'm scared to mislead anyone. I feel more comfortable with asking a pastor these questions!

I Corinthians 7 talks about the principles of marriage. It says that man and wife should not deprive one another of "affections"---it can lead to sinful temptations. This is a verse that popped to mind immediately when I read this post.

But there are lots of texts that can be applied to all sorts of marital situations. Leviticus 18 talks about the laws of sexual morality---this includes laws against incest, etc. (like you asked about).

I agree with you that just knowing the roles doesn't translate into a happy marriage. That comes with prayer, having a relationship with God, and putting into practice His word. He promises His blessings if we can do this.

If only one person in the marriage "knows" God, that person is still to fulfill that role in marriage as God calls. (In that situation I would pray for the "unbelieving" spouse). I Corinthians 10 talks about keeping your marriage vows, but then in verse 14 it goes on to say that the "believing" spouse will sanctify the "unbelieving" spouse, AND the children... pretty amazing! :)

As far as the issue of divorce goes, Christ in His teachings makes it clear that He despises divorce ("Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate"). But in Matt. 19:9 it does state an exception for sexual immorality.

I believe if the couple is honest and sincere in their commitment to God and to one another (as you stated, marriage is a covenant with God), then they will achieve success. I have the faith that all else this couple is dealing with is going to fall into place.

I think this couple needs the help of a Christian counselor to guide them through. The counselor can point to supportive texts to apply to everyday life situations, and also to pray with the couple.

John 14:14 "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."

I don't think that those of Jewish faith or any other would be deprived of Christ's blessings on marriage if they believed in what I'm trying to describe above.

God would love to be able to shower the OP and his wife with His love and peace if asked. I think the OP could really be in for a life-changing experience if that's what he wanted. ;)


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i cross-posted

Tenderchichi, I hear what you are saying. I think the Bible is an excellent reference point for the believer to hop back onto the bandwagon! : )

But it's never too late for the unbeliever to experience the gift of life as well!! This world can be so daunting and our personal afflictions can be so troubling---the Bible offers so much hope for us! (the book of Romans)

I agree with you that people must want to change for themselves.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

texashottie:

Christians don't always accept the gift of that belief. A couple can both have the same faith and are at different stages in their walk. Depends on the person. Whether they can forgive and accept forgiveness. They have "strongholds" which need to be pulled down. These are concepts which not all people subscribe to. Non faith based people may have a cause and effect attitude and approach change through behavior modification. Christians are to accept the "Grace" of G_d in their lives and operate thru the mechanism of faith: "All things work together for the good of those who Love G_d and are called according to His purpose". Therefore, everything that happens in your life would be a part of G_d's plan for you and given to you to refine you into the image of His Son. You might want change but if the answer is "no", then you should be at peace with it as per the tenants of your Faith. With that in mind, it should naturally follow that all of life's difficulties should be looked at in the same manner.

The Jewish faith has very similar beliefs and attitudes about intimacy in marriage as well. They draw, as well, on scripture and apply it very seriously to marriage. Of course, their culture is different. You would have to read up on it if you wanted to know.

Everyone is different and each person has to find a way to deal with their issues that is personal and comfortable to them.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

"Christ in His teachings makes it clear that He despises divorce"

I'm sorry but that is just YOUR interpretation. I highly doubt you KNOW what GOD thinks, or should be judging people that may feel the need to get a divorce. Say for example, your drunkard husband beats your kids senseless almost everynight, is it ok to leave? (oand please don't wuote that spare teh rod spoil the child thing). Personally, I'm gonna think the mom is sinning more if she doesn't leave. In my opinion, sexual misconduct is one of the more minor things spouses can do to each other nowadays.. Not really sure why the bible allows for divorce for that when there are a lot other things in marriage that can be just as if not more worse. Anyway, have you ever visited a women's shelter or studied the childhood of serial killers or many severely mentally disturbed people?

Oddly enough, my religion is very, very strict. But, we are not taught that sex is shameful. We believe in marriage as a scarament, but we are NOT taught that GOD despises divorce. It actually saddens me that some religions preach that judgemental cr*p. You should just be lucky that you are married to someone that you wouldn't feel the need to ever have to leave.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Hopefully, this will be resolved without anyone being stoned.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Asolo, I love your sense of humor. :)

Carla, I think you're not reading me correctly.

Christ states,"Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." You yourself stated that "marriage is a covenant with God." Yes, I believe God dislikes divorce. That's not what His intent was for marriage. I think you can agree with that.

It's only when sin enters the picture that we run into these other problems with marriage.

I stated earlier that religion is personal. Whether you feel you need a divorce is between you and God---that's who your "covenant" is with. And I think your church leader can provide you with the guidance in making that determination.

If you feel you are being judged by other religions, then that is a shame. I hope that doesn't shake your faith.

If you would like to continue this coversation, maybe you should email me via GardenWeb's page? I feel like we're taking away from the OP's original thread. ;)


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

hi everyone! OP here (what does OP mean?), well, it is blizzard anyway :-)

mrs. read most of the posts and was not upset by what she read. i asked her to respond, and while she was not opposed to the idea, is deciding whether she will or not.

she did say one thing. 'how can i NOT love you'. she does not understand how anyone could believe that she does not love me. of course she lives here, and she even read the posts, but she still asked that question...

ok, again to try to be brief:

Get yourself a Christian counselor - Our counselor is from a Christian network :-)

If you don't belong or go to church, now is a nice time to start - My wife is Christian, I am not (Protestant). When we got married, we agreed to raise our children as Christian. They do not go to church because of my wife's, um, 'issues', and our kids attend PSR. My wife cannot get the kids to church because if they get 'inconvenienced' in ANY way, she gets upset, then the whole thing gets really ugly (keep in mind that I am not there), and she has to rush them home. So, they never go to church. I have asked my wife (just yesterday) that once we get 'better' (meds, hormones, or just plaiin counseling), if the entire family could start going to church. :-)

I'm also saying that if you are a "yes" man, just to avoid confrontation, well, she may not have a lot of respect for you - I am not a yes man. A yes man is subservient. My issues were related to being insecure, yes somewhat painfully, addressed below. Did, does, my wife respect me? Yes, she says she does, and I do believe she does. You would have to be here, but I fully believe she does.

Looking forward to hearing from Mrs Blizzard. Again, trying to get her to post, especially a before and after.

Glad you had a good therapy session. - Me too. We had the 'previous' therapist pass on the file, and the new therapist offered a plan and insight that the old one never did.

Painfully insecure - I said that I was insecure. I also said that I was painfully lonely, VERY much so. It hurt very very badly when my wife would promise to come down after 'putting' our kids to bed, only to fall asleep with them and never come down to me. Yes, I would tell her how much it hurt, and that I had high expectations. She would PROMISE to come down, and I would get hurt again. So, painfully insecure, I guess so.
Were to change his steps, focus more on his own happiness and that of his children. - My happiness was my wife and children. I was happy with my children and they with me. Shift my focus from my wife? I guess I built my life around them. And no, it was not an unhealthy focus. I was not (am)obsessed or overbearing. I always offered for her and them to be their own individuals and to have their own things. I only want (still) for my wife to include me in a SMALL portion like she includes the kids and even the dog (as the whole thing started). And the be clear, the therapy has started and her physical is this Thursday.

It says that man and wife should not deprive one another of "affections"---it can lead to sinful temptations. This is a verse that popped to mind immediately when I read this post. - There have been many temptations, thank God no follow through!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Things are getting better already. She is sleeping at the bottom of the bed with me (hey, it's a start) and, I left out of town again today (before anyone else had woken up) and left her a note on the coffee pot that read:

'I love you Sweetheart. I will call YOU later today.'

I wanted her to be sure that she knew that she was under no pressure or obligation to call me or to 'gush' over the fact that I left her a little note. She called me after she dropped the kids at school and thanked me for the note and said she loved me, and there WAS inflection in her voice this time!!

I'll post on the results as it may be relavent to someone else someday.

Thank you all again!! I can't tell you how this has helped and that I am grateful.

blizzard


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Blizzard - I truly hope that you and your wife can work thru your issues. It does certainly sound a bit strange - she's sleeping at the bottom of your bed? Oh my. Well, perhaps that's progress, as you said. And that's good!

You said "My wife is Christian, I am not (Protestant)". Did you mean that as it read, that your wife is Christian and that you are Protestant? If so, you do realize that Protestant is a Christian religion, right? If you mean that your wife is Protestant and you're not, Ok - I get it. I just am not sure by what you mean from the way you wrote it. I guess that doesn't matter too much in the whole realm of things.

Know that we do care and want to listen/help if we can.

Suzieque


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

LOL suzieque, I too was confused. i assume Blizzard is saying, My wife is (nondenominational) Christian and I am Protestant.

Methinks there's a reason there is no "Religion" topic on this board. Drop the name GOD or Bible and normal people get freaky - !

Bliz, glad to see the hope blooming. I for one believe in change, have experienced it first hand. Spiritual beliefs had a part of it, but it was also well balanced with medical, mental and emotional feeding.

Balance in all things - Just drugs, just therapy, just God, none alone are enough. Happiness requires balance in all of it. Good luck to you -


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I am going to toss in my 2cents.

I can relate to your story. My husband and I have had many of the same problems although reversed on the touchy feely part. First a few questions.

How often are you out of town for work? My husband works out of town a lot. I hate it!

I admit I have let our kids sleep in our bed til they were 5 and 3. I needed to protect them,(my husband was gone and I was there only protector) Protect them, from what I have no idea, my problem not theirs(it took me along time to realize what and why I was doing it. With them in my bed I knew that they were ok(still breathing) And it was just way easier, than getting up 5 times a night to check on them. But finally after about 4 sleepless nights I got them to stay in there own beds, it was not easy. I still check on them but not as much, they are now 8 and 6.

What was her parents relationship like? If her father has a temper, did she ever see how a loving relationship works? My husband grew up in a not so loving home and had some serious intimacy problems, not a sex problem but all the other stuff outside the bedroom. He just never learned how to show affection to me, no problem with the kids just me. Maybe your wife just does not know how to love you the way you want her to because she never seen her parents be touchy feely. My husband loves me very much and I know this, but he was showing me in ways that I could not see, maybe your wife is showing you she loves you but you don't see it(just not the traditional ways). You say you love her and that you show her in many ways. Does she feel loved? The things that you do for her, is this the way she needs to be loved? If she does not like to receive flowers, then why do you send them? I too do not like to receive flowers they are a wast of money. And it would make me angry when my husband would send them and then expect me to be all thankful for them. Please don't get me wrong I like the fact that he was thinking of me but I am a practical woman and flowers belong in my garden not dying on my table. My DH does not send them to me any more. Now he will say I love you and I would like to do something special for you today, do you have any suggestions? then I can tell him what I need at that time. OK so not to romantic I know but over time he is starting to learn what I like and can now surprise me with something that is actually important to me.

My DH(Dear Husband) and I have been together for 14 years and were near divorce. We tried counseling but because of his work we could not go all the time. We just decided that something had to change! either we changed things together or I was leaving. WE had to sit down and talk about what WE expected and wanted from each other. Even if she wants things to stay the same, just what is it that is making her happy? I would think that there is some thing bad about you that she would like you to change. Discuss how each of you can change/what each or you need to do to change. Each of you make a list, you take what she wrote and she takes what you wrote, and keep them with you read it often so you can remember what is important to each other(it is easy to forget). I wanted my husband to touch me more often. He tried really hard to remember to touch me and at first it seemed mechanical but in time he really learned to enjoy touching me(outside the bedroom)even just holding my hand or putting his hand on my lap when we sit together.

and remember children learn what they live! So if you and your wife love each other and want to make this work you and your wife will benefit from it and your children will learn about a loving relationship when they see their parents love each other.

Its called WORKING it out because it is a lot of WORK!
so hang in there and talk about how important it is to communicate with each other not just talk. Stop thinking in traditional ways. Your wife just might not be a traditional woman so you might be going about things all the wrong way.

ps OP is original poster


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Bliz

It seems to me that your children are not getting any leadership, do you think they get away with too much ? It seems that if they kick up a fuss, then they get what they want. You said if they did that in Church, they got brought home.

This is a situation that will lead to bratty, unhappy children, impossible teens. Ah, the teen years, where they need lots of boundaries and guidance from parents. It will be difficult for you and your wife, if you don't start putting your foot down now.

Positive parenting, with love.

Sleeping on the bottom of the bed.....gee, why ?

Maybe you are just too nice!

I am glad Mrs B read the postings.

P


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

popi... where did you get the children are not getting leadership from???? that blind sided me here....

blizzard..I can empathize with taking the kids to put them to sleep and falling asleep when you do this yourself... this happens with most stay at hom moms that I know... you lay down with them to help them fall asleep and you are so exhausted yourself that you fall asleep too... I will fully admit that I had a negligible number of "sleep trough the night" nights myself for almost 15 years after having children... I could probably count the number of nights I actually didn't wake up at all on my two hands... Now that they are getting older, it's better, but for example last night I was up 3, yes 3 times... not for long, but I was up... and then I get up first in the house, and typically go to bed last... I get minimal hours of sleep per night... I'm betting your wife is the same way, so I'd suggest cutting slcak for falling asleep with the kids when she puts them to bed...

I'm glad she reacted positively to what you and others here have posted about your marital issues... I'm not sure that I would have done so... prior to the months of counselling we've been through now...

I wish you both well...

btw.. on the "christian" subject, I assumed she was Catholic, and you protestant... I know many Catholics do not consider anything but that to be Christian... but we protestants are Christian... we just don't do the 'Pope'... that's how I have my children explain it!


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

"Things are getting better already. She is sleeping at the bottom of the bed..."

Hoo, boy! You really have some work to do! Wish you success, but you've described some awfully strange behavior.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Just a quick little suggestion --

You want to rebuild intimacy with your wife --
How about signing the two of you up for dance lessons? Lots of intimate but non-sexual touching, fun, laughing, hugging, spending time learning and doing things together. Most women love to dance, and dancing with someone you love just brings out the wonderfulness in your relationship. A set weekly class would mean finding an established weekly babysitter, and could later transition into an established weekly 'date night'.

If you're thinking that wouldn't work because you have two left feet, then force that thought out of your mind and do it anyway. (Odds are good that your wife doesn't agree, and that your willingness to try it anyway will be touching.) Unless your wife agrees that you're a horrible dancer and that trying to dance with you is beyond-awkward for her, I'm betting she'll love it. (And it's cheaper than therapy.)


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Blizzard, you sound like a neat person. And your wife sounds like...a lot of women. It's not uncommon for women - when they have children - to become devoted to the point that their children become their passion, and mom's best energies go there first. Not a bad thing in most cases, but sometimes the husband can get left in the dust, and by the time the kids are asleep, his wife has nothing left. I've seen it happen with our friends and, to some extent, at one point in my own family/marriage. Usually the wife doesn't even realize that anything is wrong because she feels like she's doing the right thing by being devoted to raising the kids. It doesn't mean she was abused as a child or is a thoughtless, mean person or that she's ready to call it quits. When she says she loves you, she probably means it...it's just that over time the two of you have become disconnected and taking care of the kids is taking precedence over taking care of you, By the time it's just the two of you, she has nothing left to give. That's not okay. You need some of her best energies, too.

One of the things I've said for a long time is, "The best gift you can give your kids is a solid relationship between their parents." It sounds like perhaps the two of you need to get back on the same page. In reading your posts, I get the sense that when you and your wife are working from the same playbook, you make an incredible team! You mentioned that you're not always on the same page when it comes to parenting - that's huge. I'm sure your therapist is miles ahead of me on this one, but if you and your wife can come together around parenting and become each other's advocates and supporters (instead of good cop/bad cop), you'll be amazed at how intimacy and connection between the two of you will grow.

Re: the co-sleeping. It's not a bad thing, inherently, and it's becoming increasingly common in the U.S. (other countries & cultures have been doing it for a long long time). However, it's something to reconsider when: 1) it creates a wedge between mom and dad, 2) it isn't accomplishing the desired effect of developing the emotional/connectional health of the family. Keep in mind, too, that there are "gradations" of co-sleeping, too: maybe begin them sleeping in their own rooms, but let them wander in in the middle of the night, and gradually work it to where most/all of the time in their rooms. You may have guessed, we co-slept with our kids and are glad that we did - it worked out well for us. But there were times when my husband and I needed to negotiate the arrangement - we both came to realize that we needed to be willing to hear each other and give in to each other...we couldn't always have it our way, and being willing to give in was actually a way that we expressed value and care for the other. It sounds like you need to know she cares enough about you to be willing to alter the current arrangement - at least somewhat.

Regarding finding things that would make your wife happy, I'd stop trying to guess and get a list from her. Seriously. Ask her the top five things you could do for her that would make her feel good, and then surprise her with one of them every now and then - it will communicate to her that you care about what she wants, and you won't have to wonder if you've gotten it right.

Best of luck to you both. Your family is a gift to you!


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!...one more thing

Hey, Blizzard, I forgot...if you can get a list from her of the things that would make her feel cared for, then maybe she'd be open to getting a list from you.

Another thing I've said for a long time is, "Love isn't a feeling, it's how you act."

You're a gift to your family too. :)


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

BIG NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the delay in posting, LOTS going on. First, a major housekeeping issue:

Thank you, thank you , thank you to all again who read and post (both positive and 'constructive') comments. I think it was Charles H. Cooley who said "our perception of ourself is based on the observations of others". Meaning, we view ourselves by what others say about us (hopefully to us and not behind our backs). I welcome the comments about my shortcomings as much as what I do right.

halfdecaf - thanks, i have worked with and have known a LOT of other men in my life. i do not like how men treat women. i have always been better friends with women than men, and my wife is my best friend. i really think that i treat her exceptionally well (not trying to blow my own horn here, just saying), and she has said the same to the therapists. your other comments were VERY good, and rather than answer them individually, i think the next news that i have might answer yours and almost everyone else's questions!!

ok, to sum up, we had a new therapist appt. she recommended a complete bloodwork and physical for my wife. she also said that in addition to continued counseling, that we need to get my wife in for individual counseling so that she can be seen by a psyhchologist for potential for depression medication. she also concluded, within 15 minutes (but also under further review), what the first therapist had said: that my wife had shown signs of depression.

ok, fast forward to yesterday. we went to my wife's OB/GYN for her bloodwork/'physical'. this doctor has known my wife for 15 years. she delivered both our children, has done my wife's checkups for the last 15 years, and has taken care of any other 'womens' issues that my wife has had over this time. this doctor is about the same age, has 3 children, lives near us, and is nearly identical to my wife in almost every way (lol). to sum up, she identified with my wife and was a 'friend' to her and knew her very very well. She knew that before this day, that there were no issues such as abuse, rape, etc.etc., and that my wife and i were in love (actually her husband is a doctor too, and i was a patient of his). anyway, we were in there for 15 MINTUES and explaining (i was very careful to let my wife explain and not me, i kept quiet), why we were there, and why we were 'in' counseling when the doctor said, point blank: 'you do not have a medical condition, you are depressed'.

we were both shocked. she basically concurred with what both therapists said, and we had not even told her yet that both therapists said that she had shown signs of depression. to make this long story short, she took another 45 minutes to talk and examine, took blood, and offer advice. she WROTE a prescription for anti-depression medication and sent the bloodwork off just to be sure.

fast forward to today. we got a call that her bloodwork was clean, no medical problems. she is now on celexa until we can get to the individual therapy appointment next week, which i am not sure what is going to happen, because i am sure that they were not counting on her medical doctor putting her on anti-depressants (i am not sure that thought that they could!). we thought that we would rule out medical problems (hopefully), then go to therapy and get depression treatment. we sort of skipped a step, but we fully confident in her medical doctor and will follow up with the therapist.

sorry to make this post longer, but...

we seem to be getting along much better. i know that seems like sort of a miracle, and it's not due to 2 days of Celexa. it started 1 1/2 weeks ago, before the therapy. this forum helped, the therpay helped. the medical doctor helped. sleeping at the bottom of the bed REALLY helped (i know some of you don't understand that, but it did). she has been more affectionate overall, has slept next to me every night (again, even if it's at the bottom, and still not as bad as it seems), seems happier overall, and had actually asked me to rub her feet one night (yay!). we ironically had always had sex on regular occasions, so that hasn't really changed. i'm hoping that the length and passion level increases, but that remains to be seen.

i hope to post another update, but i hesitate to post just to bump this up because others need advice too. i'm not really sure at this point what had triggered any of the change, other than the actual 'good' therapy and maybe the hard look in the mirror by reading all of your posts (again, many thanks). maybe it was my reaction to the flower....?? i was really, really hurt. whatever it was, let's hope it stays. she is beautiful both inside and out and i am one of the luckiest men alive. i love her.

well, off to counseling :-)

blizzard


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Aww Blizz, thats great news, I am glad things are beginning to work out for you.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

That's wonderful news!

I hope the Celexa does the trick. But remember, if you don't see results right away, I've heard it can take up to six weeks to take effect, and that the first week of so, she might feel some unpleasant side effects. But stick with it -- and if Celex isn't the magic bullet, take another shot with another medication.

The most important thing is the teamwork.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

"she is beautiful both inside and out and i am one of the luckiest men alive. i love her."

She's pretty lucky too.

So glad things are looking up for you both...what a difference a week or two can make!


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

You are both lucky, and I am pulling for both of you that things just get better and better. If Mom and Dad are happy and loving, it brings more security to the kids, too. And it teaches them what a successful marriage can be, setting a good role model for them.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

God help me.

or someone, please. i guess i spoke too soon. i said that she had changed somewhat before after our talks, but this time was different. i thought that the triggers this time really had clued her into making changes and sticking to them. i know that the medication takes longer than a week (9 days now), but there is a new problem.

she went to an individual therapy session with the therapist, planned, which wasn't an issue except for one small detail. this was the session that was to determine if she was supposed to be put on medication for anit-depressants (or whatever), but if anyone recalls, her OB/BYN prescribed them at her 'physical' a week earlier. well, the therapist said that after meeting with her in our joint sessions (and now the 2 hour individual one) that she seems to be suffering more from anxiety related symptoms (that need treated) that could be causing depression. the therapist was going to call the OB and see about changing (maybe) the medication to match the symptoms.

so.......although she accepted that the therpist said that the medication that she is taking now could be correct, she thinks that it is doing no good. so she now thinks that she feels no different than before. so she now is acting no different from before. changed overnight. yay me.

also, to answer the plethora of questions that may be asked, no, nothing else changed. i have been supportive. the kids have been good. our sex life had not changed at all (and no, i did not ask for any more). she even told the therapist in her individual session that i had been 'the most wonderful and supportive husband there is' -in her own words.

don't post respones please. i know what the answers are. my questions now relate to what i should to with myself.

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

What you should do with yourself? --

1) Remind yourself that your wife is going through some very tough times of her own, but that she is in the process of getting help, so that things will get better.

2) Also remind yourself that right now, your wife thinks you are 'the most wonderful and supportive husband there is' and this is a very, very valuable thing. Don't screw that up.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Remind yourself, from time to time, that "this too will pass".

Things will get better.

Remember the positives in your situation. Your lovely children, you lovely wife, and home.

You are a lovely person, who cares deeply for his wife and her happiness, thats really special and you should be very proud of yourself for being that wonderful supportive person.

P


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

The important thing is that your wife STICKS WITH her counseling.No drug is going to be the "magic cure",in fact,many depressed people have to try SEVERAL different medications before finding the right one for them.There is no reason for her to get discouraged.
Another poster was right anyways about how most anti-depressants take AT LEAST 30 days to work,so your wife would not be feeling any effects already.It was simply a "placebo" effect,that she thought it was working so she thought she felt better.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

One other thing to remember -- If you are tempted to do something like an affair, it's not just your marriage that you could mess up -- It's your whole life -- your home, your children and their childhoods, your family, your self-respect and standing in the community.

Stick by your wife and work together to solve this problem. Together, you two can do it.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Hi blizzard19 -

Sorry that DH has not had a permanent improvement. You mentioned the possibility of her having an anxiety disorder which is contributing/causing the depression. The medicine prescribed can be a catalyst to change but she will also need cognitive therapy as well to sustain the improvement. From what I read lately on the subject, our own thoughts can cause changes in the chemicals in our brains that make us feel unhappy and depressed. It is probably an interaction of our own unique inborn biology and the manner in which we were trained to perceive life's events. In other words, if we were raised to make a big deal over every little thing that does not work out right (our way), or if we judge people's mistakes and are rigid about giving approval to loved ones, or take everything very serious and final, then those attitudes and beliefs work together to make us feel, anxious, perfectionsists, guilty, nervous, etc. Basically, unhappy cause life is full of obstacles and making a mistake or not having the cleanest house or "best" children in the world is not practical. That way of thinking is sure to make a person miserable, depressed and anxious.

I don't know if your DH operates in life in the manner I described. I do know, from my own experience, that I shares some of those traits. I also know how I obtained them.

During my journey, I had to let go of many of my "ideals" because I came to learn that life is not perfect and my belief of what life should be was all in my mind. All in my head. Why, because I was thrown many a curve ball that were unplanned for and came about out of no where. I had to learn to adjust. I had to learn to accept that I was not the G_d of my life.

It is an epiphany for some people while others have always been able to walk the gentler path.

Perhaps this interplay is part of your DH's problem. If it is, my hope for the two of you as that she can let go of the old ways and float above some of life's annoyances so you two can enjoy the wonderful life that lays ahead.

Take care.

'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,(Zechariah 4:6)


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I meant to say DW (wife) in my prior post not DH (husband).


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I can't help but see how one sided this whole thread is. Surely we all know bad marriages are two sided. Blizzard, you're hurting I can see that. But you're foolish to think you've done nothing wrong. So, a few thoughts here from the other side of the issue (even though I'm not your Mrs., I can see where she's coming from). Whoa, whoa, whoa on her being abused and is a terrible at showing affection. You keep saying she's capable of doing it everywhere else. If she can, she can. She won't with you, it shows. And there's a reason. Her reason. What does she say it is? Listen to her, it's not stupid, unreasonable, wrong or "depression-induced". Her depression may very well be situational from being unheard for so long!

You sound like you really mean well and really do like her. But do you express your dislike of her actions to her on a consistent basis? That is on a daily, hour to hour basis? Or do you find something good to say and ignore (that is do nothing, say nothing) about her outward expression of dislike for the situation? She aint happy and you can see it. What I am saying is no one wants to hear how horrible they are, having it harped on constantly and having it pounded into their brain; it's very unmotivating to be around. Who wants to give themselves to someone who dislikes them??? That sounds crazy!!! Worse, no one wants to have the other person point out how wonderful they are, always saying, "Are you too dumb/stupid/etc. to see what is right in front of you?" even if not said outloud. You love her. Say it, stop saying the bad things, it can only help her feel good about how she thinks you think about her.

Even if you are offering affection, you seem to expect to her like just exactly what you like. Are you doing what she wants at all? Maybe she hates flowers and would prefer a mixing bowl. Not most people (me included!), but maybe she is like that. That doesn't maker her weird for liking something other than what you like. That makes her, well, her; she's just being her quirky self. Appreciate it and buy her the bowl to gush over. If you only give what you want to have, you're not listening to her or hearing what she's saying, you're trying to make her conform to your selfish (sorry, I wish there was a better word) idea of what is "right".

Last, marriage is two sided. She's not posting her side. Maybe she feels defeated and doesn't care what she does because she knows it wouldn't make any difference to her, she still wouldn't be happy... because, her needs are unmet as her husband won't listen to what she wants, needs and likes. Because, you tells her she's an idiot for not wanting flowers and wanting a mixing bowl. She can't be herself and be appreciated for who she is. Don't be surprised if she speaks up and that's what you hear in counseling, you too are doing something wrong. She's been supressing it and disguising it by channeling it to her children who do appreciate her in many ways she can see and feel. Follow their lead.

That said, I wish you all the best and if sorry if my answer was hard to hear. You want help? Here it is. Take it with the heart it is meant, to be helpful for seeing her side.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

rob,

i hadn't intended to repost, but your response was sent to my email. i do apprereciate the comments, and you are correct that, just as with my kids, you typically hear one side of the story.

i will answer you in what i can only profess to you and whomever will believe that i am telling the truth. i suppose those who have been in this position will believe me, those who have not won't.

you said we had a bad marriage - my wife never viewed it that way. she wanted it, and still wants everything, to stay the way it is, SHE was happy.

you said she can show it elsewhere but not with me, but that it wasn't medical or 'depression' related - the therapist and her OB/GYN both said it WAS a syptom of depression and/or anxiety to withhold affection from your SPOUSE and not from children (even pets). why? i don't know yet. i'm still trying to hold myself together long enough...

you said i expect her to like what i like - i never said nor expected that. i have always asked her what she would like, from flowers to gifts, to massages, to just plain i love you's during the day. Rob, i totally recognized the fact that she needed her space, and i would purposefully give it to her. i would go for DAYS without getting within FEET of her, and would then only try and touch the small of her back as i kissed her good morning once in a while. is that too much??? i NEVER told her 'this is what i want you to do'. never.

tells her she an idiot for wanting flowers? - of course i never said that. i recognized that she disliked spending $100 on flowers, so i never did it. i sent that single rose and a card because i wanted to tell her that i was thinking of her from 300 miles away. i did that ONCE because i hadn't done it in a while. i NEVER made her feel bad about that (other than her reaction to it), nor anything else ever. i NEVER called her names or bullied her into reactions that i wanted. yes, i was VERY hurt by that one incident, and i used the word 'gush' on that one, but she had no emotion at all, wouldn't you have expected some??

she is defeated and feels that her husband won't listen... - for the record. i have been the one to initiate conversations over the last 10 years. i have been the one that has brought her down, out of bed, to talk about what we can do to save the marriage no less than 30 to 40 times. i have been the one to ask what it is that i can do, in tears (mine not hers) to change to make her happy. i was the one who called the therapist and set the appointments (and oh, by the way, i was the one who got her the individual therapist appointment). i suppose if i was afraid of what she would say in private i would not have done that.

she's been suppressin and channeling to children who appreciate her... - yes, there is an 'enmeshment' there that is unhealthy, we have discussed that. but know this, she gets VERY frustrated with the kids and snaps at them in ways that she never has with me. she says mean and hurtful things to the kids (because she is so close to them??) that she never says to me. go figure that one out. and yes, i talked to the therapist about that.

well, with all that said, i do appreciate your comments, and i DO take responsibility for my actions. i know that i have issues of my own that i am working on, but they have not led me to where i am specifically at today. i am insecure in part because of my lack of intimacy. i want my wife and i want nothing more than to see her and my children happy.

thank you again.

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Hi Blizzard,

Really quick...

1) It's good that the physician and the therapist are talking. Treatment of this kind often involves a web of caregivers, each of whom as a piece of insight/information to contribute. Their ultimate goal is most likely the same: to get their patient/client to a healthier place. It may seem frustrating - like taking a step backwards, perhaps? - to switch meds, but it's not uncommon to adjust meds and their dosages, especially in the early days of treatment and/or if things change for the patient/client. If anxiety is indeed part of what's going on for your wife, that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle that needs to be taken into account and treated appropriately.

2) "Overnight" changes are pretty rare - especially when you're talking about something as complex as issues involving someone's mind, body and interpersonal relationships. Anti-depressants alone aren't an instant, comprehensive fix, in most cases. What they do is regulate brain chemistry so that intense highs and lows of emotion are evened out, giving the person emotional "space" to work on cognitive, behavioral and relational issues that are difficult to approach when one's in the midst of a depressive state.

3) From your description, she's got some work ahead of her. And so do you. Exploring issues of anger and emotional detachment can take people to very tender places sometimes. If you're in couples' counseling you'll both probably go down that road. She almost certainly will at some point in her individual counseling. This is one of the times that the rubber really hits the road in your wedding vows, as she may need your support more than ever in the weeks and months to come.

4) If you find that being the kind of husband you want/need to be to her is getting hard, or that this is bringing up "stuff" for you, you may want to also consider individual counseling as well (with someone other than your couples' therapist).

All the best - keep hanging in...it's worth it.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I don't want to sound mean but unless your wife trully is mentally ill she is playing a really unplesant game.

I myself is "too nice" type of a person and am willing to put up with whatever, but even I would have enough of it!

No one needs to go through what you have to go through.

There are a lot of affectionate loving women out there who would appreciate you. She might be a nice person but what she does is rather nasty. Now if she is trully emotionally and mentally ill, she needs to seriously get a very serious treatment.

I would give it some time and then as much as it hurts I would leave if it does not change. Maybe it would be a wake up call or if not, then you deserve some happiness.

This thread made me very angry thinking that some women out there get nice husbands and treat them like crap, pardon my language. I would love to tell your wife what i think of her to her face.

I understand it is a commitment and you don't feel you can just bail out, but I doubt you signed up for this when you got married. She better starts treating you right if this marriage means something to her. So far it sounds like it only means something to you. This woman makes me angry and I don't even know her, I don't get it how you put up with her on a daily basis.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

In my opinion the OP's eyes have just recently opened to see the extent of this issues he is dealing with. The realization that the problems they are having as a couple are not going to resolve (at least not by themselves).

As this is a first attempt to seek outside help it seems that it would be only fair to give that a chance before leaping to negative conclusions.

Just like everything else in life, the OP should consider the positive and negatives that will come out of any life altering decisions (such as divorce or affairs). Although, I am not one to advocate either of those choices, it isn't a happy or healthy situation for the OP either. He will have to be the one to do the "soul" searching necessary to make a decision. Hopefully, the OP will put the most effort he can into trying outside help (as they are both doing now) before he gives up. Even if DW remains the same, the OP, can change his expectations (if he wants to) in order to sustain the marriage.

I do think, though, that it is a little premature to start thinking about divorce before all the other avenues of approach have been explored.

If the DW in this situation could only see all the damage that is coming out of her issues and do something to change. Everyone thinks that change comes about solely in the mind. Often times it is in the "doing" that works to change the mind.

Hoping that things work out as there are children who love and need their parents.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Children need parents but parents need happiness too. And I doubt children need to a part of this mess. Children need happy family and happy parents, I don't see this happening here. Children are already troubled by sleeping with their mother and it only going to get worse.

This woman shows no appreciation for her husband and frankly does not care about him suffering and suffocating. I do wish she reads these posts and understands what she does to her own husband. She sounds plain evil to me.

If she would have serious issues she would not be affectionate toward her dogs, cats, and kids (sorry putting it in one sentence). She apparently knows that you are willing to put up with her aso she exercises her power.

And her not sleeping with you has nothing to do with children. You said she sleeps at the bottom of your bed (how disrespectful)-this is nothing to do with the kids. She does not want to sleep with you, period. Why would you want to spend your life with someone who does not sleep with you, does not touch you, does not show any consideration etc. Do you not repsect and love yourself enough?

Frankly if things won't change in a few months I would be running not just walking out. And I would insist on full custody of the kids because she is seriously damaging them.

It sounds pretty naive that it is going to get better. You were together 15 years and things are only getting worse what makes you to believe that it will get better?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Finedreams,I was thinking the same things I just didnt have the heart to say it.
The sleeping at the bottom of the bed thing is VERY disrespectful and extremely odd too.
Either his wife is cold and very manipulating or like you said has a SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS.
None of it sounds normal at all.


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plasticgarden

excatly. Unless of course OP does something that makes her resentful and emotionally detached. My SO has drinking problem (I left him, then stupid me came back)and when he drinks I feel resentful and detached then I do not want to be touched. There must be something causing her to detach, but...then she has to tell OP what it is. If she is not saying but then still act weird, then she is just evil or messsed up in her head.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

profess to you and whomever will believe that i am telling the truth. i suppose those who have been in this position will believe me, those who have not won't. Oh, I believe you... plenty. What I know is, perception, while it feels truly real, isn't always the reality of the situation. Yes, I know you feel you're doing the best you can, and you probably are, but that doesn't make it the best for your marriage. Is it really what she wants? Be sure to take a step back and really look at yourself if you want true change. Are you loving her in all the ways she wants and needs? Or are you trying to "get" her to love you? Ask and answer it honestly. Not here, but to yourself. Profess your short comings, those you keep saying you have, but keep playing down. Read it, up there, above. Notice how you keep doing it? You can't have a strong marriage built on anything less than the most truthful truth. Inside and out. BOTH of you.

Best wishes! My heart aches for you, your wife and your precious children.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

uh.

How is it "disrespectful" to another person to sleep where you can get to sleep?

& she's making progress;
she's in the bed with her husband.

To a person with anxiety, panic attacks, or depression, relationships with equals (spouses) are much scarier than relationships with children or pets.

She's doing the best she can, he's doing the best he can, & *they're making progress*.

This poor guy came here & poured out his heart, & *said* that he loves his wife, & said that both the doctor & the therapist recommend medication & therapy, & people jump in & call her "evil or just messed up in her head" (I hope that poster never doubts that she or her spouse or her children are functioning normally) & attack her & advise blizzard to get a *divorce*?

Sleeping with their mother will not "damage" the children; divorce will damage every member of the family.

blizzard, be patient, forward movement will be in tiny tiny steps, hang in there.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

So do you think it is healthy for children to watch their mom being cold and inaffectionate with their father? Or do you think children don't know? D

ivorce is damaging but living in a misreable family where the father suffers and feels suffocating is possibly even more damaging. And we are not talking about trying for few years, we are talking about 15 years of struggle! You suggested to people to end their marriage over one argument, you don't think 15 years of unhappiness is good enough reason?


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

What I see most clearly is an extra 500-1,000 per month (or more?) for ongoing therapy which may or may not accomplish anything. From blizzard's description, his wife can change her behavior more-or-less instantly depending on what she thinks, notwithstanding medication and advice. I've known many people who use their on-going therapy to justify/excuse however they're behaving in a never-ending sequence. It's very difficult -- even for professionals -- to separate controllable from uncontrollable issues. I certainly don't know what's going on here except for the strange behavior described, but there would be a limit to my compassion/understanding/endurance. Appears to me that blizzard's enduring admirably but I have no expectation that changes in the wife will be other than a very long time coming with the possibility that they will never come and what has been described will simply be how it will be indefinitely. I would love to be wrong about that, but I doubt that I am. What a miserable way to live! Even with the kids, I don't think I could stand it as long as OP has.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Blizzards description of his wife/children/'bed life' etc could be mine... except my husband and I have other "issues" than blizzard and his wife have (my husband has anger and resentment over me leaving my job to stay home to raise children, I have anger and resentment over his lack of involvement with anything not 'work related'... which btw was a MAJOR reason for me leaving my job in the first place)

That said... I don't want to take over blizzard's thread, but I do want to give a perspective from someone who does put her energy and love into her children and not into her husband... who has minimal interest in sex with a man who barely speaks to her unless it's work related or schedule related... who has an 8 year old who has slept almost every waking night of her life in her parents bed, plus a 13 YO and a 15 YO who also slept with mom, each until the next arrived... and then when dad was travelling (which btw for many years was at least 4 nights per week) the older two would take turns sleeping with me and the youngest... now the middle one (my son) rarely comes into my bed, but if dad is travelling the oldest (daughter) will join me and the youngest daughter.

How did my children start to be in my bed??? Well let's see, when the oldest was born, and we were both working full time, 60+ hour professional work weeks, with 1+ hours each way commutes, DH would get hostile when she woould wake during the night as he 'needed to sleep because he had to work in the morning' I guess I was just going into my office to have coffee???? Anyway, it was easiest, quickest, and lazy.. but I would get up and get her and then feed her while laying in bed with her between us, so I would fall asleep and she would fall asleep that way... then it became habit for her to want to be there if she woke up... so she would start in her crib and always end up with us (or me if he was travelling)... and so began the cycle that for us went on for years... (my oldest is 15, she was 7 when the youngest arrived...

That's my 'children in my bed' saga...

As for a lack of interest in sex... my case sounds very different than blizzards

Truly I thnk we both love each other... we just don't really like each other these days... but right now we're both willing to try to work on our life and try come to some meeting of the minds together... I hope blizzard and his wife can do the same... I think I could easily be her, so I understand more of where her mind is... which is why I suggested to him way back that maybe she needs some time to herself... does she get to do anything alone? with her own friends? hide out in her room alone with a book? or do whatever hobby she once had? I'm guessing her life revolves around her children and her house... she needs some personal space to find herself as a person, not someone's mom... does she view herself as desirable or does she see herself as a tired mom... she neeeds to be an individual with varied interests... and once she gets some personal perspective back, then maybe she can be a wife again...


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

sorry for the delay is response. i did want to get back to some excellent points. things are very up and down, and like i said before i hate to keep bumping this post, but if it ever helps anyone else, then it's worth it.

briefly, we had another joint appt yesterday. the depression med is not working. the therapist and OB are trying to get her on an anti-anxiety med (don't know what yet) as they think this is causing the problems. she (my wife) does go back and forth between her old self and seeming to making an effort. the one post where i 'gave' up was after four days of her not coming downstairs after putting the kids to bed, and letting our daughter take over the spot at the end of the bed despite my objections (please don't go off on this, it was bad enough).

on a positive note, the therapist said that we are very invested and seem to be doing very well.

finedreams - thanks. i appreciate your comments. i have this vision in my head that most people, married or not, want to be loved. i also am a hopeless romantic, so it does not help. ironically, i am 6'2" 215 pounds and have always looked like a football running back (played when i was younger), but we took the kids to see Enchanted (Disney movie)last weekend and i teared up when he kissed her and she woke back up (posioned like Sleeping Beauty).

rob - i really do appreciate you playing the devils advocate (fairly well, lol). two points - first, to be clear, i always asked her what she wanted from me. she would always answer the same: for things to stay the same (in other words nothing). i also NEVER asked her to be something that she was not. meaning, although i wanted things from her (intimacy, but rememeber not sex, well, not more sex), i never told her that she HAD to do things. i always spoke to her and told her my feelings and explained that these were the things missing in my life and that i would like SOME of them some of the time. she had options to chose, and even make some up herself. for example, i would ask her to hug me once a week. if that was not acceptable, then she could come up with something of her own, like coming up behind me while i was typing on the computer and leaning against me and putting her hand on my shoulder. rob, i'm talking VERY simple things, not kinky sex. second, although i always tried to do things to make her life easier so she would be happy, i never really tried to control her happiness. the therpaist said that i cannot make her happy, only she can. i always did things (and still do) so that my wife life is easier so that she is less frustrated (anxious), and would get less angry with me and the kids. that translated into happier times with me and the kids, although never into intimacy. at least it caused less depression with me. finally, i;ve asked her 1000 times what it is she wants. the therapist asked what she wants. her answer is always the same: for things to stay the same

divorce? no. affair? no, neither of us, trust me. she is not evil (i didn't take offense to that). it is just so hard to explain. she really is a great person, why else would i want to be with her? i started to list her good points but it sounded like i was making a 'to do' list. there were too many to list.

i just can't get her to understand the intimacy thing still (that's why this whole thread started, lol). she can't understand when we do have sex why i react the way that i do. without getting into detail, i still find her very attractive (and she says me), plus i love her dearly. so when we do have sex (not enough, but that's ok) i enjoy 'being' with her. she basically wants to 'finish' (which she always has), and then get me done with and get it over with. i want to, um, enjoy my time with her (go figure) and she doesn't get it. well, i guess at least i'm having sex once a month so that qualifies as touching, lol. not the same as intimacy. think about all the women who complain about men who want just sex with no intimacy, same thing. not funny.

well, i've said too much.

blizzard


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Blizzard,no one can blame you for wanting sex.The one person you're supposed to be able to get it from is your wife.I think that was alot of FINEDREAMS point.

I have to agree with plumbly that maybe half your wife's problem is not having a life.It doesnt sound like she gets out much,or even wants to for that matter.Is there anyway she can take a class or start some yoga? Maybe just get her nails done every two weeks with a famliy member or friend? It doesnt sound like she thinks of herself as being very sexual,and maybe she needs to do something to change her perspective of herself.A reminder that she is not just mom,but a hot lady who still has needs?

I also agree with asolo that it seems like a situation that may never get better...and for your sake I hope that's not true.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

hi

I posted on the genetics of sexual desire on another thread. I thought it might be of interest and am mentioning it here, again. According to a recent study (attaching the link below) there now is evidence that people are born with low, high, average sex drive. It is inherited. I wonder if the therapists take this new information into account. I think that it would be helpful to people in these situations whether they be low or high sex drive because it would remove some of the "hurt" that the disparity in sex drive causes in couples. There is a lot of finger pointing and blaming each other when it reaches a crisis point. After reading it myself, I felt that people would search for possible reasons in their personal history that they could use to blame their problem on. They could have had past issues.
also pathologize everything that ever happened to them in life to blame the sex issues on. The low sex drive person might feel angry and pressured if their partner continues to pressure them for sex which might be a bigger reason for them becoming even more turned off. I have no real proof to back this up but just my thoughts on it.

Men with impotency have Viagra to help with that issue. But, there hasn't been a drug that enhances desire. Often, the problem is not about the inability to perform (as in men) but more about not having the desire to engage in the act.

I read on the net that there is soon to be a new drug coming out that helps with that part of it. Bremolanotide is the name of it and instead of working on the physical part (as viagra does) it targets brain chemistry (mind)and initiates sexual desire. It is the desire that is probably the missing piece to the puzzle. You can read about it:
"Drug Boosts Sex Drive"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12867311/

These situations can be very convoluted with churning up old issues, problems in the relationship unrelated to sex, personality problems, etc. I think that there is an interplay between the two and having issues might also increase their lack of desire. But, taking into account that the differences in the couple's biology (inherited low/high sex drive)is an important causative factor for the problems in relating to each other as regards intimacy.

You may never be able to fully understand the reason and hope this information may be helpful.


Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060529102546.htm


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

sorry i forgot to address one point in my last post. someone said "unless alcohol or something like that is involved". the answer is no. we drink EXTREMELY little, neither of us smoke or, do drugs. we do not have any other problems like anorexia or things like that destroy people.

plumbly, the therapist told her to take up yoga (seriously, she just said it two days ago). she said for her to go to a class, but my wife said that she would not go to a class and asked if she could get tapes and do them at home (i was sitting right there listening to the whole thing). the therapist warned her about ANY distractions during the yoga. this is just an example, though, of her not wanting to do the things away from home. no one knows why. about the her being a hot lady thing - she knows she is attractive. i think this applies both physically and mentally, but i tell her all the time about different things that i like about her. for example, she has great hair, but she NEVER used to keep it really neat (clean and brushed, just not wow neat). i actually had to have her buy a flat iron and now she uses it (i always loved her straight brunette hair). that is one example of many that i point out to her constantly, but i do tell her often that she is cute, beautiful, and/or pretty (not all at once, just whatever the situation). i joke with her that she is a milf, lol. she has said something along the lines of us being one of the better looking couples 'at school', so she has at least some type of good image of herself.

tender, thanks for the link, i read part, i need to go back when i have the time. i am curious about the hereditary part about sex drive v. intimacy. i made sort of a mistake on my last post and put intimacy and sex on the same line. i wanted to be clear that my goal was mental and physical contact involving intimacy outside of sex, but IF more sex resulted (which by default it should), then fine. if not, and more intimacy results, then fine too! :-)

thanks!!

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

The title of this post is a misnomer, I bet. I would bet that the wife FEELS more emotion than a lot of people do, because she doesn't express it. (I can only imagine what it's like living with her -just HEARING about her makes me want to go bonkers! LOL)

She says everything is fine. Yet she won't leave the house, and she refuses to touch you even though you have said that you need to be touched. She is not expressing true feelings and thoughts. It's as simple as that.

I would create a safe way for her to communicate. Ask her to talk to you on the phone, in a letter form, text message, whatever- and try not to question anything, or expect anything, just reflect her thoughts. She needs to learn it's okay to speak her mind.

She's afraid of something - and it's not necessarily your fault, but you may be the key to turn this around.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

she needs to go and work, kids are old enough to be in school or preschool or whatever, she needs to feel that she is more than just a mom. Why doesn't she work?

And another thing I notice that when women complain that they are mistreated everyone stands on their side and suggest they don't put up with it,. This woman clearly mistreats her husband (even if unintentionally and due to health problem) and everyone feels sympathy and support for HER not him. So men are supposed to put up with whatever? Biased view to say the least


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Ok, who else is mad at blizzard for spoiling the movie "Enchanted"? You'd be banned from the movie forum, boy! ;-)

Lots of woman with school aged kids don't work. There's still enough stuff to keep mom's busy. Granted, she needs to try to fit in some activities for herself, but I don't think her lack of working outside the home is her problem especially if they don't need the money. Plus a job could just cause more stress for her in the long run.

I have an answer for your second question, finedreams, but it's probably not right for this post and I just don't feel like being flamed right now.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

carla,

sorry!!!!!!!!!! i didn't think about that. but honestly, you can see it coming 15 minutes in. i liked the movie. susan sarandon did an interview where she said she was happy because she can now be made into a toy, lmol.

about communication, i have written emails to her many times before. i thought that this was a less empassioned and more reasoned approach, and would allow her to answer in her own way and time. she doesn't like it, lol. short of sign language or smoke signals, she knows that she needs to comunicate. i guess that therapy is the way now. again, though, she has been in individual and joint sessions, and has been in private medical appointments (except for this very last one) for 15 years (oops, except for the ones involving having kids, i was there for the ultrasounds and stuff), and she has been asked over and over what she wants. she has the chance, without me, to express herself, and she says nothing is wrong!!

you know, i told the therapist that my fear was that the kids were going to be in middle school and one day she would wake up (theorectically) and say 'i'm bored and you never challenged me and i want a divorce'. this despite the fact that i've offered her to work (rather, told her that i supported her if she wanted to work or not), told her she could get her masters (she has BS in International Marketing), go see her old friends (she harldy does), and i offered MANY times to take her shopping (which i like to do).

i mentioned waaaay earlier in the thread that she keeps busy with 1. kids 2. school 3. her brothers businesses (i guess this is sort of work but from home) 4. her parents (her and her mom grocery shop). the problem was putting ME in there.

finedreams does have a point, and i had given up on occasion, but not to the point of leaving. in some respects, it is abuse. i really beat myself up over this, still do. i still have hope.

b


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

"She says nothing is wrong". You do realize don't you, that something IS wrong, and she is just not expressing it - right?

I just want to make sure you're not trying to convince us that she's really happy, nothing is wrong, but that she just doesn't touch you.

When was the last time you had an argument?
You know what we say about couples that don't argue - most of the time that means that one person is always getting their way.

Perhaps she doesn't know how to wrap her brains around what is wrong. Maybe you present yourself to her as you do to us as the perfect man, so how in the world could she complain out loud?

What if you try doing something different - obviously being perfect doesn't help. God knows if I was married to a perfect man i'd strangle him. I need emotional space to understand my own desires and interests - women are difficult, I know....LOL!


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Of course plenty of women don't work. But this woman is clearly not doing well so i am suggesting that maybe that is the problem.

If I would spend my life only cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, seeing only my H, kids and ocassionally my mom I would become miserable and would not want to touch my H either because i will be unhappy! And possibly she is. There must be something else she wants in life!!!!
If it is not work, then there must be something she wants

I am an artist and if I denied opportunities to paint and exhibit and be a part of local art organizations I would become depressed! maybe she cannot do something what makes her happy.

It is a great job to be stay at home mom, but if she is unhappy then she needs to find something. Exercise, knitting, book club, I don't know...something!

people suggests H does something differently and of course he should try, but she needs to do her part and do something what makes her happy. She cannot make him happy because she is unhappy herself.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Amy's made some excellent points & has offered sensitive advice.

It sure sounds like depression to me, so profound that it's disabling.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

What about Agoraphobia (or the fear of leaving your house?)
If she has anxiety,it can lead to to that.
Have they offered any anti-anxiety meds yet like XANAX? I used to get panic attacks and that was the only thing that helped at the time.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

I think Xanax is a short term temporary fix and it's sort of additive... so she may need more and it while it will help her less. I think it's generally better for anxiety attacks or bad days, not longer term anxiety issues. Granted, I'm sure that's what she'll be prescribed because it's the one the insurance co's or whoever are pushing this week-- LOL

Anyway, and I'm no doctor, but I would think BusPar may be a really good choice for her. I hope they choose that. As an added benefit it often increases sexual desire and function. In fact, it is sometimes prescribed to offset sexual disfunction in people taking anti-depressants. It may work wonders for her on many levels. Regardless of what they give her, I hope they are at least trying something.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Well of course I didnt mean for long term Carla.Her therapy is what will help with the REASONS why she has these problems (whatever they may be)but sometimes they give medication until the therapy has started working.

For me the xanax was never taken on a daily basis,but only when seriously needed so I didnt get addicted.
Cuz nothing was worse then being out somewhere and having a panic attack and not being able to calm down.(I had mine because of a car accident,so I would panic and freak out in the car)

I'm not saying that is what she should take either.Once again,just throwing around ideas and exploring all options.
Since anti-depressants and the like take so long before they work.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Oh, I didn't mean to argue with you of... of course if she's having anxiety or panic attacks Xanax may be good for her. I just thought she may have something more along the line of GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder) and a longer term/ daily anxiety drug may be needed to help her constant anxiety. I don't have as much faith as you in therapy curing her longer term anxiety; it sounds to me like she may need an actual daily anxiety drug to help her with that.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

she was put on Zoloft two days ago and off the Celex. we are hoping that this makes a bigger difference. the therapist and OB seem to think that the anxiety was causing the depression and the other effects.

amy, i never intended to present myself that way. you are correct though. i did, however, in most of my posts, try and give hints that i have some other issues/problems that i am trying to resolve that are obvious deficiencies of mine that i never delineated here. what i tried to do here was to answer questions that were asked, and to fill in other gaps in the relationship that would give an overall picture of how our interpersonal life together is. me perfect? no way in hell. i have admitted that i do not believe that you can directly make someone else happy (or love you). but i try on a daily basis to make the environment around my wife and kids as condicive as possible to their liking such that the possibility exists that they WILL be happy. will they? sometimes they are, sometimes not, lol. the obvious relavence to this thread involves my wife. i am a very sensative guy. i also like to think that i am intelligent and have common sense. with those things said, i think that i can recognize the things that women (most women) would like. i watch movies, tv, and read magazines. there are things presented in media and that i hear from other women that lead me to believe that women, as a whole, like certain things. i consider myself a little more sensative to the needs (as i see it) of women than the average man. before anyone stands up and throws their coffee on the coputer, i hope that your 'man' is as "good" as i am. but believe me, i have worked, met, bumped into, or generally just known a TON of pigs (men) in my life that treat women normally, and it is NOT how i treat my wife. if i have presented myself as perfect, i am sorry. i am not, but i do things for her as a normal course of my day that is really no different for me than washing the dishes. but, even with al that said, i have major faults and flaws, and i suppose i will list them so everyone can judge. well, here goes.

1. i am too logical and reasoned. i don't do this with my wife but with others. i see the 'math' side of things, and get frustrated with people when they can't see the obvisou solution to problems (sans emotion, lol).

2. i am not close to my wife's family or my fmaily, but for different reasons. toooo long to list here.

3. i do not force the children discipline, but that is an issue with the marriage thing that we are working on.

4. i could probably dress better. jeans and t shirts with long shirts over are my normal. i work for myself so i don't have a reason to wear my suits. i am willing to dress up, but she will never go anywhere!!!

5. i really don't like myself despite have numerous talents (weird statement, huh?). i have been divorced once, and now she has intimacy problems. i feel like no one likes me so why should i like me??

6. i do get depressed and lonely very easy, but mostly when she has 'problems'. if she is happy, then i am happy. i guess this is a problem itself, but it is my deficiency, not hers.

7. i need to get back on a regular workout routine. kids and life get in the way (nooo, really? lol).

Ok, here it is, the absolute worst, I saved it for last. I drink maybe 1 drink every year or so. I do not smoke, no drugs, i NEVER yell, hit, scream, or abuse anyone. I really have no other bad vices or problems. Here is the one thing that I do that she knows about, that is the worst that I do, that some of you will hate me for, but I'm being honest.

8. I do look at porn on occasion. There, happy? No, i do not use it as a substitue. i would much rather have my wife, but as you KNOW, sometimes i can't HAVE my wife. why do men need porn? i don't know. sometimes i don't. sometimes i envision her :-) but hey, if it keeps me from an affair or a hooker, then how can it be all that bad. plus, and do NOT get me into this argument, cigarettes killed my father, and they are not illegal. porn is not illegal. i know, it objectifies women, and i'm sorry for that, but that again is an argument for a different thread just as tobaco is. and to be clear, we have watched together once or twice for 'spice'.

well, hate me if you will, but i am not perfect. all of these faults were there before, and 8 came well into the problems so it is not parts of the problem. sorry for the length

b.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

The reason for my prior email was not to drag you down, I'm sorry it had that effect - rather, you gave us a puzzle in the beginning that made no sense. Still doesn't. Thing is, there IS an answer. The only thing we can get answers from is you, so there's an easy place to start. We all know that it takes two to create a relationship, and since you claim that she is loving to everyone and everything but you, then I figure you must be a part of that answer to this puzzle. I am not looking to burn you at the stake, but rather help you see that you may have more control of this puzzle than you realize. To come to an understanding that you are part of the problem, thus part of the solution, is actually empowering if you can set defensiveness aside.

This particular story is so interesting to me, because I believe that the answer to the problem is hiding. There is more information that we do not know. I'm trying to uncover what that is -

You suggest that we might be happy about your big confession - it's not about that. It's about working towards understanding the dynamics of your relationship. I would imagine that perhaps the answers to this puzzle are embedded here in this thread -

Forget about my opinion of porn - I'm guessing you struggle with it because you set it up in the same breath as illegal activity. Have you talked to your wife about this topic? To say that she joined you twice does not necessarily mean she is okay with it. We've already established that she doesn't express herself. Then again, if she's okay with it, you might be relieved to actually have a conversation where she genuinely reassures you that she's okay with porn. either way, a straight conversation is needed - it's these kinds of honest, difficult conversations that lead to more intimacy.

Once again, it doesn't matter one whit what we think. This is YOUR life.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Hey my DH looks at porn and I do not love him any less for it, I am thinking most men do, I am just glad DH is open to me about it, we actually fight over the copy of playboy to see who can find the playboy bunny on the front cover first. This by no means makes you a bad person, plus she knows about it, at least you are not hiding it as some men try to do.
I have not posted here before as I can see your wife does have medical issues and I really did not want to voice my opinion, but from everything I have seen that you have posted, this is not a issue with you, do not go down that spiral, I know it seems like no one is concentrating on you with everything that is going on with your wife,
And really all relationships do need nourishment from both ends and you are not getting this at the time. I am hoping this will change, you are a good man for sticking it out this far, it just shows how much you do love your wife, kudos to you:)


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

The porn is not as a problem so long as

1)she doesnt have a problem with it.

2)You dont let it interfere with your intimacy.(chose IT over her)

Being as you said she has looked at with you I doubt number one effects you.And being as you are here saying you WANT to have sex with your wife,I doubt number two as well.
So dont worry about not coming off as a saint here.You think we all are? LOL...


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

If she almost never touches you, then who can blame you for looking at porn? And you said your sex is sually quick because she has to go to kids and she sleeps with them. So you look at porn, what else do you suppose to do? Who can blame you for that? And if she does not like it, then maybe she should give you more attention, go somewhere with you and sleep with you not the kids. Don't be too hard on yourself.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

"i actually had to have her buy a flat iron and now she uses it (i always loved her straight brunette hair). that is one example of many that i point out to her constantly"

You "had to have her buy" something to make her great (clean brushed) hair the way you want it. Ew. Just... Ew.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

mary_md.

anyone can take anything out of this however they want...but that is not how it was intended. my point was that my wife is a beautiful woman who does (did) not take advantage of the time that the VAST majority of people do (men and women) to make themselves that much more 'them'. i wanted to say polished, but even that sounds like the wrong term. let me give you an example for me...

every once in a while, at my age, my ear hair and my sideburns get too long between haircuts. those things get VERY noticeable to me, so i cannot believe that they go unnoticed by others. if others see them in an unkempt state, and i would look better with them trimmed, then why would i not trim them before i went to get my hair cut (my stylist typically does it when i get my hair cut). my point was, my wife looks great with brunette hair, but when it is straightened with a flat iron, WOW. she looks like those girls on those commercials, i mean amazing. she does it every time now before she goes out (especially to school functions, lol). yes, i 'had to have' her buy it, but not for me, fir her. you mistook that.

as an update, she has been on Zoloft for almost two weeks. her period came with less syptoms than before, and her stress levels seem to be down. she has started home Yoga at the request of the therapist, and that seems to be helping. intimacy is improving, but it still has rooms for imrprovement, but there is an increase in contact so i am much happier than before. there has been talk about increasing the Zoloft dose, but after the next OB visit. again, i post this in hopes that others may benefit.

our biggest issues now center on the kids, and we are going to start on those with the therapist after the holidays. our 12th wedding anniversary is December 29th, and the therapist has orderd us to take a trip together (which i have been after for years), our very first one alone since the kids were born, for our anniversary. i have it scheduled for that date!. :-)

blizzard


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

good luck. It sounds like things are getting better!


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Hi, I know this is a really, really old thread, but this guy's situation is so similar to mine, and it showed up on the first page of a Google search so I thought I'd save everyone the hassle of rehashing opinions that have already been made here. I thought it would help if I could add my opinion in case anyone else has the same problem.

I wonder how this couple are going now because the conversation ended so abruptly. And I don't think the couple were going down the road toward a resolution. It would be good to see if he has gained any wisdom.

As someone looking out from within the same kind of relationship, I've got the following comments to make.

I feel really sorry for the wife in this relationship. I think, as Bob tried to point out, the guy was trying very hard to show how right he was and that how it was all the wife's fault, and that she was the one with the problem who needed therapy and medication.

As a guy who also likes to be touched as a form of close contact, but who lives with a wife who doesn't, I think it is extremely judgemental to assume that the behaviour that you prefer is the right way. And to the people who were encouraging him, saying that he sounds like the perfect man, you were just feeding his ego and justifying his opinion. I do not believe you were helping their marriage to succeed. A guy who thinks he and his wife are the best looking couple at the school and buys his wife a hair straightener because he has judged that she doesn't maintain her looks well enough needs to get his priorities sorted out before he starts to examine his wife's flaws.

So, now that we have that out of the way, I hope I can share my opinion on my relationship. It may be a completely different situation to Blizzard19 or there may be a kernel of similarity.

For years I have thought that my wife was emotionless, because she didn't display the common signs of affection. Her family do not kiss or hug each other and are very poor at displays of affection. When they do is seems forced. My family does display affection in this way. I have often had Blizzard19s mindset on how I can get my wife to be more emotional. Then I started to examine what she regarded as fun, what she enjoyed. At Christmas and on other holidays, her family likes to sit around and ridicule each other. They rip each other to pieces and have so much fun doing it. I have always been uncomfortable in their family gatherings because of fear that I would become the butt of a joke that would last for half an hour and leave me humiliated.

Then I started to look at humour. It appears that you can laugh with someone (like the joy expressed in someone achieving a great thing) or you can laugh at them (as in pointing out people's weaknesses). To me, having my weaknesses pointed out is like being killed. And something is being killed, my pride. What I have discovered is that my wife's family comes from a position of safety. They are secure in themselves and their love for one another, and they have all been through the fire of ridicule and have found that they are still loved on the other side. And ridicule, and the fun that goes along with it, is their form of hugging each other, because it brings great merriment.

I come from a position of fear, where I think I need to be protected from dangers in the world, and ridicule looks like any other attack, it attacks the pride and humiliates, which like I said, feels like death and I feel like I have to fight it, though I have never learned this skills to rebuff an attack, just like my wife never learned to hug. So what feels like a hug to her and her family (a little humiliating joke) feels like an attack, and the same may be true from her perspective, a hug may feel awkward and forced and a bit intrusive.

If I were to ask the question, which form of interaction was superior, I would have to say hers, because it brings great joy amongst them and it also removes false pride. It is bare soul meeting bear soul, versus flesh meeting flesh.

I have only come to these realisations after a weekend of deep soul searching.

Having said the above, I would ask Blizzard19, if he was still around, what makes his wife laugh? What brings her pleasure as an end not a means. It may not be the type of joking around that my wife and her family enjoy, but there will be some form of non-physical love being expressed. If he examined her in the company of her family and saw what gave her joy he would find the way that she expresses her love, and if he cares about her, he would travel to where her pleasure is and meet her there.

That's the journey I am about to embark on.


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RE: Emotionless wife! Help!

Gary - perhaps you need to start a new thread ?

I am not sure I see the connection between your wife, and her interaction with her family and their apparent ridicule of each other, as affection ?

I would propose that this is a bit passive aggressive ?

But, I do see your point about there being different ways of showing affection apart from the traditional lovely dovey thing.

I am married to a person who is lacking in, what I would call "normal" ways of showing affection/ emotion etc.

After much thought on my part, I have started to think that my way is not the ONLY way ! So you and I are on the same path, my friend, and perhaps a lot of other people need to think this way.

It is a good topic for discussion and I urge you to start a new posting.

More to be said, I think.


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