No, the problem is not with you. IMO your wife doesn't need a counsellor so much as a good physical checkup. Her oestrogen levels may be low which would account for the low libido (believe it or not, this is what V!agra was developed to help). Her behaviour is not normal, nor to me acceptable. Her acknowledgement of your gifts (or not) is, IMO downright rude.
If I was 20 years younger and you were my husband I'd be thrilled!
You really need to encourage her (if not insist) she sees a physician ASAP. You can't go on like this.

OP - gonna suggest something here, not because I think all women are evil, or I am non-trusting person, but rather because I have lived thru much of what you are going thru. Have you considered the possibility that there may be someone else? Could be a full blown affair, the begining "flirting" phase of what will likely become one, or even just an interest in someone who is likely in her social or work circles...

The reason I a saying this is that I went thru much of what you are talking about. My ex essentially "disengaged" from me as a husband/romantic interest....looked more to me as a provider (she was a stay-at-home at the time), and also someone to just get stuff done. I did so much around the house (we were fixing up an old Victorian home at the time), and it was never enough. When I suggested we get a sitter and go out for an evening, she'd suggest the time and money would be better spent fixing this or that.

She did the same stuff, never would get any emotional response from her, it was like hugging a store mannequin. I could tell she had "checked out" and started to look to myself and of course there were things I realized I could work on, so I communicated this with her and wrote her letters and told how important she was to me and how I was working on being the best husband and father I could be....she didn't even give me the courtesy of acknowledging the letters until I asked her "did you read the letter I left you?"

Gradually I became suspicious, started to look into things, and long story short she had been having an affair with a guy who did work on our house for about 9 months. That was the beginning of the end for us....we tried to work things out (I did, anyway, she never really tried..) and a few years later she did it again.

I hope this is not the case with your marriage, just wanted to bring it up since there are so many similarities between what you are going thru and what I went thru.

Best of luck.

I have a suggestion: DO THINGS BECAUSE YOU LOVE/RESPECT HER AND NOT EXPECTING SOME ACTION IN RETURN? Also, could it be she is just not in love anymore? Doesn't this just happen to people? Could it have been something more chemical in the beginning? I don't know but you are whining about THINGS! And being a bit narcissistic as well. You. Your feelings. Your needs. You. YOU YOU!! Come ON! Maybe you should just keep cleaning the house - because IT IS YOURS TOO? Or is it something the TWO of you agreed to that cleaning, cooking, kids, et. al was HER SOLE RESPONSIBILITY? Could she be bored with it, you and the whole mess? She didn't ask you to stand on your head, juggle while whistling love songs. But you seem to bring up every little thing you do. As if it isn't truly FELT, more like you have a PURPOSE behind it. Sorry. Do you expect certain sexual "things" as payment for the house cleaning? Poetry? Etc?
In my opinion, it seems all these wonderful sweet and romantic gestures is TO GET WHAT YOU WANT. A means to the end, so to speak. Maybe she gets that vibe from you. She hates it when you spend money - SO WHY CONTINUE? Sounds like A HUGE CONTROL issue? I could be wrong. Had ladies at work give their opinion? wo. sounds like you wanted to prove to the world how hard you work for the thankless woman you got stuck with. You get counseling first. Find out if you send mixed messages of CONTROL. OWNERSHIP. If you feel she is MORE YOUR PERSONAL PROPERTY than her own person. Just a suggestion. Or, file for divorce and go after those women at work who cried with the message in a bottle thing. Maybe you should leave. Nothing she does will make you happy. You will probably just end up demanding and expecting MORE and drive her further away. Good luck.

Worriedone, you silvertongued charmer you. Let me guess, you don't currently have a relationship, can't imagine why.

Wow that's a bizarre way to look at it. The OP's wife has completely shut down on him for whatever reason, and you go ahead and turn it right back around on him.

At least he cares enough to want to do the work and try to make things better. I doubt she is making any similar efforts.

I see nothing wrong with anything the OP said, I mean seriously, is there anything we do that is truly altruistic? Most people short of Gandhi and Mother Theresa do the things they do partially because they are the "right" things to do and partially because when someone acknowledges it or reciprocates, we feel good.

I'll be interested to see if anyone else shares worriedone's opinion....after all, what do I know, I'm just a guy. Seems like she's had a control freak in her past and is projecting it on the OP.

OK,yep as I suspected I just saw some of the other posts worriedone made this morning....all have the same tone...abused by a control freak for 28 years....man did I call that one.

Worriedone, I am sorry you suffered for so many years, I truly am. But please, I think it's a little unfair to go project the qualities your husband had on anyone who comes here looking for some advice.

All men and not evil controlling creatures. Some of us are actually nice, caring guys who respect women. Please stop dishing out advice solely based on your scored past.

Thanks ColeenOz! Appreciat the feedback, I too thought about the hormone imbalance and she has had blood work for these types of issues but they all come back Normal, or so she says. If anything, she is acting more like she is clincaly depressed, some symptoms can include disinterest, but she will not seek help. Unfortunately she has to want to be helped and right now she doesn't even think there is a problem.

Mkroopy I that was my first thought too, so I did a little recognizance and there is no evidence of an affair or even another interst. My wife does in home daycare and her parents watch the kids when we are not home. With the amount of children she watches most days and the fact that her parents would become suspicious if the kids were over more frequently without either of us makes it almost impossible. I am wondering though, I've read that some woman have a difficult time being mothers and lovers at the same time acting as if there was another man involved, when in fact they are just simply focused on the children. My wife did say to me once that our relationship is not a priority right now and our family is priority one. The issue I take with that is, our relationship is the foundation of the family, if there is no husband/wife relationship there is no family, traditionally speaking of course. Either way, I end up feeling alone and rejected, this may seem very selfish, but I only asking for very basic things every once in a while.

Thanks,

Hi worriedone, Thank you for being honest with your feelings, but you seem to have a lot of anger and are misdirecting it a little bit. Let me explain a little about my post, everything I do for my wife and family, I do it because I want to, out of love and respect. Call me old fashioned, but I think wanting a simple "Thank You" once in while is perfectly fine. Leveraging tasks or gifts for affection or sex is definitely a no no in my book and I think it was misconstrued a little bit in my post, again a simple thank you is sufficient, not because you should, but because it's polite. There is nothing controlling about being polite. Yes I did have a purpose behind my romantic gestures to my wife, TO MAKE HER FEEL SPECIAL!!!!!

What I want out my relationship with my wife are 3 basic things, Love, Respect, and Affection, nothing more, nothing less. These are basic needs that even friendships have, and yet my marriage is lacking.

Put it this way, if I knew that giving up sex with my wife or anything else for that matter, meant that she again would hug, kiss or snuggle with me like she used to, I would give it up in a heartbeat. Obviously this does not include my children.

The housework I do, really has nothng to do with this problem other than I wanted to show that I do help out around the house as sometimes the lack thereof can be the cause of the actual problem. I do it because I want to!!!

The funny thing is that somehow in all of this you think I want to control her, when in reality I want the exact opposite, I want her to express herself freely without me prodding for a hug or for a conversation. Am I being a little selfish, probably, am I being unreasonable, no!

My apologies for being rude in this post, but I came to this forum for some input, not to be judged. Had you worded some of your response differently but with the same meaning I might be a bit more receptive, because I'm sure there is some validity to your post. Take care and be a little more gentle in how you respond.

Kind Regards,

So, I figured things would mellow out now that I've been home for a few days, I was wrong. Pretty much everything bothers her now, the kids are sick and she's even barking at them when they whine or cry. She very rarely does this, usually she only barks at me, but she' barking at everyone. I realize she is probably stressed with the kids being sick, and I am trying to help as much as possible.

Yesterday, she asked me to get the camera as I was leaving for work and she needed for later that day. I went and got it, walked over to where she was standing for a second to give her a goodbye kiss (Our Morning Ritual). She scolded me and told me to put the camera on the front seat of her car. I told her I knew that, she stated that you say that, but you were just standing there doing nothng. Keep in mind it was really only a matter of seconds that I was standing near her. I put the camera on the front seat and told her that I came over for our morning kiss before we both go our separate ways for the day. She barked at me stating I'm not ready yet and she basically made me wait until she finished a few things around the house before she gave me a kiss. Now in the past I've tested this a little bit and did not give her a morning kiss and she freaked out, stating you always give me kiss, you can't do that. So what gives, even if I do what she asked, she's not happy and what's with her making me wait for something that she supposidly has to have every morning. I am at my wits end, this is why I am going crazy. I asked her once why she has to tell everyone what to do and berate them, she even does this to her parents, and she told me that if she didn't nothing would ever get done.

I guess the question is, what should I do? The laws regarding divorce are never favorable for the man, besides, I really don't want a divorce. My parents got divorced and it really messed me up for a long time. Just because you divorce someone doesn't mean the children are taken out of a bad situation. It just means that you don't have to be a witness to it. Deep down inside I still love my wife and I want to make it work. Thanks for listening.

Regards,

Well I dont know if I can tell you what you can do that might help, but I think I can tell you what not to do. Maybe you can learn from my mistakes...

Dude, I can tell from what you are telling us that she has totally checked out of the 'marriage' part of the marriage (closeness, affection, emotions, etc.) To her its' the equivalent of a working relationship...you are both working together to run a house and take care of the kids. What is NOT going to work for you at this point is "trying harder"...you have already (as had I) tried to "be a better husband, father, etc.", and each time you did and said "there, I've fixed some things", you had it basically thrown back in your face, or worse yet, ignored. Trying harder won't help. Unless you've lied to us in your posts, you are a decent, devoted guy who cares about his wife and has tried real hard.

Not sure if there is anything that will get her to turn back towards the marriage...looking back on mine, I still don't know if it was savable by the time I realized we were having major issues. But, I will tell you how I had WISHED I had approached it. Again, let me caveat this by saying this is the opinion of a guy who's marriage ultimately did fail...so buyer beware:

I wish, when I was at your place (again, remember, by the time I was in your shoes, she had been having an affair for months, but I didn't even suspect it yet...), and realized that all my efforts were not pulling her back into wanting to truly fix the marriage, that I would have totally stopped smothering her. Stop asking what's wrong, stop taking her emotional temperature on a daily basis...in other words, back way off. Not saying stop being a good husband and father, not at all. Just stop smothering her. Be kind, nice, but not a pushover. When she goes nuts on you for some stupid little thing, don't put your tail between your legs and say "sorry dear"...just tell her why you feel her anger is not justified in a calm, cool way and go on with your business.

Eventually ask you what the heck is going on. At this point I would be brutally honest with her and tell her, in a calm fashion, all the stuff you've told us (and her I am sure), and how you know this is not the way you want to live your life, that you feel the problem is not with you...that you are committed to her and the marriage, but realize you've been smothering her asking her whats' wrong all the time, and that you have decided to just give her some time to adjust to your new position in your lives with two kids, etc. I would stress to her that you know that your marriage has issues, and that you are 100% willing to work on it...but unless she makes the same commitment, it will surely fail. What you are describing is no way for a marriage to exist long-term...make sure she understand that you know this.

Then tell her the ball is in her court. You are there for her when/if she decides to put in the work. But, she should also know, in a non-threatening way, that things cannot exist long term the way they are. You don't have a marriage, you have a business relationship....and neither of you should be expected to live that way for the next 18+ years.

Again, consider the source, some dude on the internet who's marriage did fail. I guess I am just letting you know how I wish I had handled my situation about 8 years ago.....whether it would have worked or not, who knows. I just know how I did handle it pretty much insured that it would fail MISERABLY.

Hi, I just read through all the posts and I'm just trying to understand the dynamics here. You mentioned your wife runs an in home day care and then you mentioned something like "now that I've been home for a few days."

Do you have to go out of town often for work? How often does your wife get out of the house? How often does your wife get a break from the kids?

Also, you mentioned when you give her something she's concerned about how much money you've spent. Are ya'll having money problems? Does your wife think ya'll are having money problems? Do the two of you argue over money issues?

Lastly, when you ask your wife what's wrong, what does she say? I'm just trying to understand the situation better so I can offer some suggestions on what might be going on. I was in a marriage for ten years, and I'm sure my ex-husband thought he was doing everything right, by working hard and not cheating on me. I tried telling him many many times that there is more to being a father and husband than "just being there", but he didn't get it. He would change for a while, do more housework and help out with our daughter, but after while he'd go back to his old ways. He never would show any affection, wouldn't call me during the day, but then when night came expected me to open my legs. I talked till I was blue in the face but he never listened, never changed. So I shut down. I stopped trying to tell him what was wrong, I stopped trying to spend time with him. And then when he finally noticed, it was too late. My heart was already broken.

Not saying that's what's going on in your relationship, OP, but hopefully I can give you insight to the female's perspective.

Hi Mkroopy, thanks for the input, the tough love approach is definitely better than smothering. I don't know if I mentioned this or not, but this is my 2nd marriage. The first one left because everyone where she worked said she was too young to be married, so she left me for a Physician Assistant she worked with because she want to regret staying with her high school sweetheart. I did the tough love approach and glad I did, she still left, but at least I had my dignity. One thing about the tough love approach is that you feel better, because your not emotionally endangering yourself with graveling and self pity. Thanks again for the advice.

Hi Amber3902, I'll try to answer your questions the best I can. I go out of town for conferences maybe 2 times per year, once for 4 days and the other for 2 days. Otherwise I am home most nights, except for the occasional get together with some of my friends, only happens 3 to 4 times a year. My wife gets out of the house once a week without kids for shopping, she thou rally enjoys shopping but I don't think this counts as she usually runs other errands at the same time. Otherwise, she goes out to eat with her friends about as much as I do 3 to 4 times year without children or me. We do go camping together twice a year without children and we used to go out for our anniversary but this year she cancelled it, because she did not want to leave the children overnight and spend the money. I am not allowed to plan anything, because she doesn't like surprises and she thinks that I don't know how plan anything. We don't have money issues, we have enough in our savings to pay off our single car loan, my student loans,and live comfortably for at least 6 months should I lose my job. We also have retirement funds we could use should things get that dire, so I guess that means we are doing well financially. We do argue a little bit about money, but only because my wife does not like me to spend money on anything she does not see as important. Which we all know, everyone sees these needs and wants differently. When I aske her what's wrong and why is she pushing me away, she always says here we go again, and acts as if there is something wrong with me for asking. She always says nothing is wrong, this is just the way I am. I know this is not true, becuase she hugs and kisses our children and up until 2 1/2 to 3 years ago, this was not as big of a problem. The thing is, is that I am ver affectionate, I text her from work once a day to see how her day is going and to tell her I am thinking of her, she never responds. I used to call her, but she would always be very rude and act annoyed that I was calling. (She answered the phone by saying What do You Want, never Hello). After a while she said I disn't need to call anymore. As far as housework goes, I try to help out as much as possible, every weekend I clean the house top to bottom. I'm not allowed to help in the kitchen because she would rather I take care of the children. There are a lot of things she wants help with, but when I do help, she doesn't like the way I complete the task so then I'm not allowed to help. I always tell her, if you don't like it, then tell me how you want the task done, she always says, I should't have to and that it's just easier if she does it. I guess she never heard the old addadge, theres a million ways to skin a cat. She does baths at night, mainly because our oldest gets mad and cries if I do it, especially if he's tired. If she's not home he lets me, and I usually get both kids ready for bed in that case. Se usually puts our oldest one to bed, which usually entails just having him lay in our bed until he falls asleep at 9:30pm. I put the youngest one to bed. My wife does get about an hour, sometimes longer, of alone time at night where she reads or watches her TV shows while I play or watch a movie with the kids in the other room. My alone time doesn't start until 9:30pm or later and seems to be shorter as time goes on, I simply can't stay up as late as I used to. Usually I fall asleep by 10pm.

I've spoken to my wife about trying to get some alone time for us, and she says we don't need alone time. I used to watch TV with her, but after a while when I would snuggle with her she would always tell me to go into the other room and leave her alone. Told her when I do that, that I am not expecting sex, but that still doesn't matter, she just doesn't want me to touch her. So I stopped trying to sniggle with jer at night. If she was watching TV I am not allowed to even talk withoutt being told to be quiet. The thing is, I don't even talk that much, usually she says I'm just not that interested in what I am talking about.

Fairly recently I walked by her and I touched the small of her back very gently, she asked me why I touched her, I told her it's because she's my wife, and I love her. She said next time don't touch me. Basically all the things you said your ex-husband didn't do, I am and always have, and yet she want's nothng to do with it. She says she's happy and that she is fine with the way things are.

My wife does have to remind me about things, and I ask when events ae a lot. Unfortunately I have a horrible memory caused by dyslexia, the medications that I am on, and the progression of the autoimmune disease that I have. She knows this, but she has a tendency to not believe things she cannot understand or see and that it will improve if she yells at me when I ask. I even went as far as to set up a program on our computer where she can add reminders and events and it notifies me on my cell phone, but she refuses to use it.

Anyway, I think I've rambled on enough, if you have further questions feel free to ask. Any insight you can lend would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

The fact that she is cold and mean to you in a direct manor (e.g. "she would always tell me to go into the other room and leave her alone" and "I am not allowed to even talk withoutt being told to be quiet") is very concerning. I got a small dose of that, but not too much...mostly she just was an empty void, rather than being combative.

Something almost tells me she is trying to push you away and frustrate you purposely, so you do something "inappropriate" perhaps, that way she can leave you and not be the "bad guy", which is how my ex is viewed by most people who know what happened. Sorry to toss that out there as a possibility, but that's the first thing that came to mind when I hear how she treats you....

Just curious, does she do this around people, like family, friends, etc. when you are around other people? I imagine not...it sounds very extreme.

Mkroopy, she has been getting better lately, about 2 months ago we had a very serious conversation regarding this treatment and she now says nothng when I Suggle with her most days, she accepts it but does not reciprocate. I don't dare do it everyday as I don't want to smother her. Sex is getting more frequently now too, the only correlation I see is the talk we had, and the fact that she went off her birth control. She does not treat her friends in this manner, but I have seen and heard her scold and be rude to her parents the same way she is with me. Her parents say nothing and carry on like nothing happend. I know if I spoke that way to my parents, I'd get cuffed up side the head. The more Times I see and hear these incidents, I wonder if she really is just this way and she was putting on a show for the first few years. By her parents ignoring the problem, it reinforces to her that it's OK to treat family this way. Kind of scary.

One thing I forgot to mention is that she has mentioned the possibility that she wants to try to have another child next year. It's is not the reason she went off the pill, she has never liked taking it and she sees no reason to continue to take it. I did tell her that we may not be able to as the medications that I am on cause very severe birth defects, even if the man is the one taking them. I would have to go off of my medications for at least 3 months before we could even start to try. The end result could be very bad for me as my autoimmune disease will flare up and could land me in the hosptial. I am certainly will to try, but I think I would like to have things sorted out first. Now that I am typing this, it dawned on me that after I told her this, things got worse for a little while.

Thanks,

Do not have any more children with this woman until your relationship is happier, if ever. It will only end in tears for everyone otherwise.

I agree that you should not consider another child right now. The risks are too great and your relationship is in no fit state to add another child. If she's no longer on the pill, I certainly hope you're using a barrier or other forms of birth control.

None of us is a mind-reader and we know even less than you do about your wife's motivations. Ironically, the fact that she's unpleasant to others is mildly positive, since it demonstrates a larger issue, not specifically you. For instance, she could be depressed.

But if she refuses to go to counseling or pursue any meaningful or lasting change in your situation, then it rests with you.

I do agree with mkroopy that you should consider backing off. I applaud your desire to do everything you can to show your wife she's appreciated, but I also think you're smothering. The daily texts seem a bit much.

And I have to say that while your message in a bottle with a personal poem is a lovely idea, it loses a lot of its romantic appeal when it's vetted by female co-workers. That smacks of insecurity and diminishes the very intimacy you were striving to achieve.

I hope you take this in the spirit in which it's intended, but I think you're groveling and she's taking advantage of that. The word abusive may be too extreme, but her behaviors demonstrate a lack of consideration and respect I find very troubling. In fact, assuming you're being accurate, some of what she does is rather mean. She may say she loves you, but in what way do her actions match her words? I don't see that they do.

While your wife refuses to go to counseling, there can be merit in your going individually. If you can find a good therapist, he/she may help you sort through your options with some objectivity.

It may be that a trial separation would be appropriate to allow both of you time to reflect on your relationship and its dynamic, but I would only suggest that if you and a therapist mutually conclude it could be beneficial.

Good luck. I think you're trying very hard to make your marriage work in difficult circumstances.

Thanks Kiloman for all the additional info. I'm sorry, but I'm still scratching my head. I still can't figure out why she doesn't like you to touch her. My mother was the same way, she didn't like anyone to hug or kiss her. Very cold. But she was this way to everyone, even us kids.

You do say again that she didn't want to go on a trip because she didn't want to spend the money. You say you don't have money issues, but the fact that that you argue about what to spend money on means you do have money issues. The problem isn't that you don't have enough money, the problem is that the two of you can't agree on what it should be spent on.

I don't know if that's the root of why she's become so cold and distant to you, or hormone problems, or what. Some birth control pills can make your feelings go haywire, and readinglady did suggest depression.

It's tough to know what is going on with her, I wish you could get her to come on here and post her "side of the story". You said this started about 2 to 3 years ago, that she changed, can you remember if anything happened 2-3 years ago - during the time that she changed?

Please do not have any more kids with her. She went off her birth control and is having sex more often with you. For some reason she wants another child. Maybe she thinks it will make her happy again. And if that's the case that could go along with readinglady's suspicion that she's depressed. Having another child will not help her though.

I think if you want to save your marriage you will have to get to the root of what's bothering her. Try to get her to go to counseling, bribe her if you have to.

Listen to what colleenoz and the other said....please don't have any more kids. Even if there were no medical conditions, I would say this. Additional kids will only ad tension and stress to a marriage that is already being held together with duct tape.

Readinglady, thanks for the input, I do not plan on fathering a child anytime soon, my wife also knows that now. As far as the backing off goes, the text is the only time we communicate throughout the day, web don't get to talk until after 5pm when I get home from work. Actually, if I am being honest, I have only been doing the daily text thing for the past 4 months. I started to do this, because I tried backing off last year, no texts no touches, I let her make the initiative on all levels regarding our relationship. We went an entire year without any intimacy and 1 1/2 years without any sex. Albeit part of theat time she was pregnant, but that's a long time to go without even hugging, we did do our evening and morning kiss, but that was it. So I figured I would go the other way and see how that worked, in some respects it's better, but I still get the attitude and she will, hug me, but doesn't like it. I can see how this would come accross as groveling, but it's really not, prior to 3 years ago, my actions were acceptable and I did not get the reception I do now. Maybe I'm missing something, I really don't know,

Regarding the message in a bottle, you called it, I am very insecure in many ways, when I first met my wife I wasn't, but after a few years of berating from her, my confidence is all but gone. However, I did not tell my wife about getting coworkers opinion's, the only thing she was aware of, is that I gave this gift to her. In fact, I did not even say anything to her about not saying thank you at the time. That was a discussion I had with her a few months later when she did the same thing when I gave her birthday present and Christmas present. Her responses all 3 times were how much money did you spend and stop buying me things, if I want something, I will buy it. So, I stopped, I didn't buy her a birthday or anniversary present this year, she was fine with it both times. Looking back on things, I think there has always been some type of inappropriate behavior, but about 3 years ago is when she started to behave this way constantly and it got much worse. It's was right after our first son was born. She's been screened for postpartum depression, but she always passes.

Amber3902, you are right, in some respects we do argue about money. She does not like it when I spend any money at all, she thinks I am irresponsible with money, which is not the case. She thinks this because when we were dating, I had a lot of credit card debt, this came from my previous marriage, I had to take out a loan to buy my ex-wife's half of the house. In hind site I should have sold it right away. Anyway, after I dated my wife for a year I moved in with her and sold my house. I was able to pay off the majority majority of my debt, and rest I paid off over a few months. After another year we talked about getting married, my wife found a ring and wanted me to buy it. I had just finished paying off all the loans from my divorce and I said maybe we should wait so I can save some money. She insisted that I just put it on my credit card and that we are in this together, so I did to the tune of $6,500. To this day she holds that over my head, saying that she had to pay off my credit cards for me. Obviously this is not true, because up until that point I paid off all of my own debt. The debt I paid off was actually pretty minimal, $6,000 when I sold my house and $1,500 was the rest. The average household in the US has $8,000 in just credit card debt not including secured loans such as home equity or car loans. All the debt I paid off was from a home equity loan. I think you get the picture here, she likes to control anything she can, by any means that she can. She has this skewed perception of everything that happens and it it doesn't fit her mold, it's not normal. What's interesting about the money thing, is that if something is on sale or a really good deal, she buys it if we need it or not. We now have 5 strollers in the garage, because they were good deals at rummage sales, yet I get the 3rd degree if I buy a $10 wrench to replace one that broke.

Sometimes I wonder if I am just to sensitive about things and I need to suck it up and be OK with it. On the other hand being to sensitive is not a reason to treat someone like a subservient slave. I think some counseling would serve me well to figure these things out. Thanks for listening.

Regards,

Granted, we're only getting one side of the story here, but if everything you say is how it is, I don't think you are being overly sensitive about things. And I don't think you're asking for too much, just some affection and sex every once in a while.

It's interesting that all of this started happening after your son was born. I know I went through some depression after my first child was born but didn't know it at the time. Even though your wife has been screened for post partum, it might warrent looking into deeper.

It's still hard to say - between that or the money issues what exactly going on in her head. One thing to tell you about the way women think. You say "I'm not irresponsible with money." You may not be, but all that matters is that she THINKS you are. She FEELS you are irresponsible with money. With women it doesn't matter what the facts are, we go by what we FEEL.

If she feels you are bad with money, that has to be addressed. Now how do you go about making her not feel that way, well, I don't know the answer. Really, it might take several months of counseling before you guys figure out what's going on.

But honestly, if everything is how you describe it, I really don't think your wife even deserves you. It just may be she's one of these types that are never happy no matter what you do.

I agree with Amber. Assuming you're accurate, it seems the inconsistencies make this a no-win situation. It's unreasonable for someone to complain about a level of debt and level the charge of financial irresponsibility while at the same time demanding a $6500 ring.

I do understand this has left you off-balance, trying sometimes detachment, sometimes a variety of strategies in an attempt to find something that works. It seems, though, you're being "managed" in ways that leave her pulling the strings and always result in the least-desireable outcome.

There are some deep issues going on here but who knows what they are? It could be undiagnosed post-partum, it could be some aspect of obsessive-compulsive (the accumulation of strollers and the controlling behaviors) or something else. All of us, with the best of intentions, are really blind in this situation as we're working with only 50% input and even then are hardly qualified to diagnose.

It still rests with you, in that ultimately regardless of whether she agrees to further medical treatment and/or counseling or not, you can't control what she does. You can only control yourself, which is why I suggested individual counseling to allow you to explore your options, not just in this situation but also in terms of your own medical challenges. Hopefully you can find ways to live better regardless of the outcome for your marriage.

I am sorry this is happening. I will say I think many of her quoted comments to you are belittling and dismissive. I hope next time that occurs you will refuse to allow her to diminish you. Losing your self-respect is too high a price to pay for a marriage.

Amber3902 said:

"With women it doesn't matter what the facts are, we go by what we FEEL."

Man I can vouch for that one in a big way. During the breakup of my marriage, my ex actually said to me about how she suffered through "years of my abuse"

I guess if by "abuse", she meant my being 100% faithful, working hard to get a software business of the ground so she could be a stay at home, which is what she wanted, always being respectful towards her (sure, not romantic enough and all that, but never disrespectful), working my butt off around the house to fix it up, being their for the kids, having enough money left over for a membership in a country club and the occasional vacation, adjusting my work schedule to get the kids off to school each day so she could go back to school, etc....

Well if that's the "abuse" she was referring to, then yes I am guilty. It's all in the eye of the beholder I guess...jeez....

Kroopy, you know you did not abuse your wife. Your ex-wife's problem was she didn't know how good she had it. She was spoiled.

Not saying it's your fault, you just didn't know that letting her stay home was spoiling her. I've seen it with other women. They stay at home and make babies and treat their husbands like crap. They just don't know how good they have it because they've never had to work hard.

I work 40 hours a week, take care of two kids, do all the housework, cooking, etc by myself. So now that I have someone who says they'll pay all the bills and all I have to do is take care of myself and my girls, you best believe I appreciate it. But if I didn't have the history I did, I might be just as unappreciative as your wife was.

Amber, I actually do know many stay at home moms (or ones that only work part-time) that do in fact appreciate it completely. They are women who have interests in life other than their kids, such as art or music...and realize this gives them the opportunity to explore that passion. My ex had (has) no real interests, so I think it was a wasted opportunity for her...

Funny thing is that now, she works her butt off, she is very hard working and successful in her field (nursing) and makes good money...but complains about the 10-11 hour days constantly.

When she does this, I just bite my lip and chuckle...thinking to myself that hey, she could have been one of those moms who gets her kids on the bus in the am and has most of the rest of her day to herself...but hey, THAT'S NOT THE CHOICE YOU MADE NOW IS IT YOU LYING CHEATING WH*RE?

Ooops....did I say that out loud? ;-)

Oh, to be sure, there are plenty of mothers who appreciate that they get to stay home with their kids, it's just too bad your ex-wife wasn't one of them. Both times I was pregnant I had to go back to work six weeks after giving birth and hated that I missed out on a lot with my girls when they were little. I just can't stand those who are given the opportunity to stay home with their kids but don't appreciate it.

"she works her butt off, she is very hard working and successful in her field (nursing) and makes good money...but complains about the 10-11 hour days constantly."

Don't ya just love karma? :)

"Don't ya just love karma?"

Yes I do....very much.

Now if only her BF of 5 yrs (the guy she left me for) would cheat on her and leave her, the Karma gods' work would be complete.

Hey a guy can wish, right?

The biggest issue here that I see is that we are all guessing at the "what" and "why" of the OP's wife.

Is it her hormones? Depression? Another man? Another woman? Did she simply fall out of love with him?

Until he finds out what the heck is going on, he can't deal with it very well. He is totally in the dark. Counseling, yes. But if she will not go or will not tell him what's wrong, that is only 50 percent effective. Still, I think I would go to counseling, because there seems to be no other real options here at the moment. Maybe by going, he can set an example for her.

A little story: my mother was always very dismissive toward my dad, who deserved much better. I once asked her why she treated him so badly and she told me that HER mother had treated her husband like krap and her grandmother before her. Three generations of cold, dismissve wives who learned the wrong way to relate to a husband and passed it on. How sad! So my question is, is the OP's wife acting out a family pattern, especially since her parents seem to ignore/accept her rudeness and coldness?

Amber3902, you make some interesting points, I hope I am being subjective and not one sided, that's my biggest fear. One thing I thought was interesting is that you stated, "Maybe she is one of these types that is never happy no matter what you do". My friend made a slideshow for our wedding and one of the picturs in the slideshow was my wife with a shirt on that said "Never Satisifed". Wish I would have seen that one coming.

Readinglady, your absolutely right, I can't control what she does. From now on I think I will focus on myself and my children and making things better in that regard. Thanks Again.

Mkroopy, most abusers try to turn things around on the person accusing them and won't even acknowledge these accusations. From what I can tell, you have done none of that, so I would take her comments with a grain of salt. She's just trying to justify her own mistakes, which sounds like she realizes exactly what they were and regrets them.

Kind Regards,

Scarlett2001, your story about your mother was interesting and I often wonder if that's this something stemming from my wife's family. What makes this really interesting is on Sunday I went out to breakfast with my wife's parents and my wife made a rude comment and I called her on it. Her dad spoke up and said that her mother is the same way, he jokingly said where do you think she gets it from? I jokingly said, why the hell didn't you warn me before the wedding. (Normally I would never say this, I was using this to probe for info from her parents, it worked) Everyone thought it was hilarious, including my wife and her mother, almost as if they were proud that they torment their husbands. My wife's father said why do you think I go up north to my cabin all the time,to get away. He confided in me that it can get bad at times, and it seemed like he was happy he finally had someone he could talk to about this. It was kind of weird, he's never said anything like that since I've known him. However, it sounds like my wife's mother isn't quite as mean as my wife can be, in my book it really doesn't matter you just shouldn't be that way. Guess what, my wife's mom was and is a stay at home mom, referencing back to Mkroopy's post. Actually, she hasn't worked since high school. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Regards,

Well, there you have it.
Do you want to have to get a cabin?
BTW do you have daughters?

Kiloman, your story about your in-laws and what your FIL said is very revealing. Maybe your wife did learn from her mother that's how you treat your husband.

Your plan to focus on your kids sounds like a good coping plan for the meantime, but I don't think anyone deserves to be in a loveless marriage forever. When my husband continued to ignore me, I did a lot of things to keep myself busy. I got involved in volunteering, my kids, wrote free lance. But after years of this I realized I deserved better. There were other issues going on as well, but also, I did not want my daughters to think that this was the way a normal healthy relationship was supposed to be.

Best wishes to you, Kiloman!!

Sorry everyone, I have been on hiatus for a few weeks here, I got busy and very sick for a while, but feeling better now. Anyway to answer some more questions, I do not have any daughters, both are boys, and a cabin would be nice, but not for the reasons we are talking about.

Things have been going pretty good for a while here,my wife and I had a couple of talks and she seems much more receptive and willing, she even admitted that maybe there is a problem. However, this week there was a set back, nothing big, but frustrating none the less. My wife had a bad day with the kids on Wednessday and blew up at me for some pretty minor things. It all started because we were talking about going to my friends Holloween party in a few weeks, we were told there were no bedrooms left to spend the night. One of my firends was pretty upset by this and I stated that I don't think he ever got a room to sleep in anyway. This maded her irate, and I said well i certainly could be wrong, that didn't matter. She yelled at me for 45 minutes and then acted like nothing was wrong, very typical for her. I asked her why she was so mad, and she said I was wrong, I told her that I already admitted that I am wrong and what else did she want. She then started berating me for anything she could think of, she was mad because I was supposed to ask my mother to see of she could babysit for the first weekend in November for the holloween part discussed earlier.. This is my mother's birthday and she always goes up north, my wife knows this, but I went ahead and asked if that was what she was planning to do. My mother told me that she probably would be going up north, in her language that means don't even ask, I have plans. So, I stopped there and left it alone, according to my wife I should have asked anyways and that I tip toed around the situation. To me there was no situation, my mom said she would probably be going up north as she always does. The thing is that my wife does not want to go to this Halloween party anyways, and has expressed this numerous times. I told her that she is not required to go and I am fine going by myself. Then she started yelling abut how I don't tell her all the details she wants to know, I am meeing up with some friends this weekend that I have not seen in 6 months and for fun we are going to a haunted house. My wife want to know why I didn't tell her the time and how much it cost ahead of time, I told her, I didn't know all the details right away and I asked her, do you tell me everything including how much you spend. She looked at me and said no and nothing else. I asked why are you so upset, she said she had a bad day and is just venting, I told her that she can vent anytime she wants, but then tell me about your day, don't attack me on a personal level. That's just not appropriate. Then she jumped back to the original argument about who sleeps in the bedroom at our friends house and says I'm always defending people when she has something to say. I told her I was not defending anyone, I merely thought that our friend never slept in a room. After discussing it with you I admitted that I am wrong.

I could go on and on, am I missing something here that my wife is trying to tell me. Because I feel like I'm banking head against a wall. One minute she admits there could be a problem, the next minute she is yelling at me about situations that involve either my family or my friends. If this were her family or friends, there is never any arguing. I'm sorry, I'm just venting , feel free to comment, if not thanks for listening.

Regards,

kiloman:

Dump that b!#ch immediately. Life is too short.

Kiloman..

I've just read through pretty much all of the posts to and from you and I realize they are over a year old... but I was wondering if you can give us an update as to how your marriage is doing now and all that?

I am especially curious because I am pretty sure I could give you the insight you were seeking about your wife. Her and I have soooo many similarities in personality and occupation(I have run a successful in my home daycare for years) and I am also a money girl as I call it. I don't want to go on and on more if you aren't with her any longer or have no interest in trying to figure her out to possibly help you to understand and better deal with her.

Take Care...
jazziegirlie

Hi Jazzigirlie, thanks for checking in, things are actually better, she doesn't explode in anger like she used to and if she does get a little cranky or says something mean, I tell her she's being inappropriate and walk away. The only things that have changed that I think impacted our relationship is that she no longer does in home daycare, she is no longer taking birth control, and she is going through a rough time legally (Can't elaborate). We have become much closer on an emotional level through all of this, that being said, our sex life is non-existent. It happens maybe every couple of months, and I'm still not allowed to let my hands roam, so to speak, but she doesn't complain about having to do it anymore. It doesn't help that our 4 year old refuses to sleep in his own bed, so it's pretty rare that I actually get time alone with her in our bed. We do have more frequent date nights, and I'm still not allowed to plan things, but now that she's not so busy with the daycare, she doesn't seem to mind as much. She is starting to let me spend money once in while, I think part of that is I no longer ask for permission, I just do it, and I currently bring home most of our income. So I guess what I am saying is that things are better, but I sure wish I could get something going in the bedroom.

Thank You,

Kiloman

Kiloman, have you tried parenting classes? The fact that your four year old won't sleep in his own bed would be a good reason to go. I find that some people are more willing to go to counseling or classes regarding parenting, compared to marriage classes or counseling. Worth a try.

You have an extraordinary amount of patience; I would have moved out long ago. Do your children treat you with respect, or are they like your wife?

I do hope you're using some form of protection if she's not taking birth control. This is still not a relationship you should contemplate bringing another child into.

Hey Kiloman,

I was just browsing the forums and came across your update. I came across a blog recently that I think you may benefit from.

Google "married man's sex life". I've been reading this blog and others like it and from a woman's perspective I think they are dead right about men today. Men today act like beta males, like you, buying their wife flowers, sending texts, almost begging for sex, and their wife has no respect for them.

They have no respect for their husband because he's a beta male and not alpha. Women respect alpha males, they WANT to have sex with alpha males.

Check into it, there's also the book on Amazon, "the Married Man Sex Life Primer". I think it may be the answer to your problem. Good luck to you!

I know this post has been years ago already. But I don't understand why your wife is like that. You should have asked her if she didn't like you anymore. But I commend on your effort. You are truly committed.