Sorry Cat~~~but I would personally confront SS and ask him why he hasn't made the payments?....and what he intends to do about it.... He is living with you and for free~~~something is terribly wrong with this picture...sometimes those "gut" feelings should not be ignored....he did it before and now is doing it again....if you want to see what the future holds, look at his past~~~ Good Luck

Kick the kid's behind and then confess it at the meeting.

Cat,
I did not know they had co-dependent anonymous meetings. Sounds like you are taking steps to take care of yourself. I suspect what they tell you there is to worry about yourself, not others, right? If your finances are separate then the answer is just to let your husband take whatever he's got coming for letting his DS walk all over him like that. It's not easy, I know. Today my DD was whining about how she can't make her bills and it will mess up her credit, blah, blah, blah. Part of me wanted to bail her out but then logic popped in and told me not to. She's the one who created her problems, not me! I did not spend my life trying to build good credit only to suffer the consequences of her bad decisions. Jeesh!

I am so afraid I will never be happy again. I just want to have a normal marriage with DH. Why won't they get out on their own and just let us be a couple?

Ugh...I know he loves me, I do not want to force him to choose between his kids and me. He is just killing himself working his butt off and I feel guilty complaining when he works so hard but we can never get ahead..

I'm rambling..stopping now. Sorry.

Perhaps if he suffers the consequences of his own foolish actions--and lack of action--he will wake up some day.

Sadly Biwako, I think this is the only way he will wake up and smell the coffee..it makes me sad on one hand to leave but on the other I feel relief knowing that even though DH & I aren't together I will have a peaceful environment to come home to after work.

DH said he will come to visit me where ever my assignment ends up, so that will be nice for us to have time alone together and maybe he will find he likes the peace & quiet also?

~Cat

All the best to you Cat, such a tricky situation for you.

Popi

Cat, Your DH needs to take a good hard look into the future. A day will come when he has little or no savings, and can no longer work, and I don't imagine that he will be able to count on this son of his to start paying for Dad's rent/mortgage, expensive medications (should Dad need them) pay for Dad's food, or senior care center which can easily run $5,000 a month. These are your husbands "earning years". These are the years he needs to earn what he can, and save as much as he can to carry him through what could be 20+ years of senior life when either no one will hire him, or he physically won't be able to work. Remember, the social security pot will be dry. Your darling husband needs to wake up, and get this son of his on his own feet, so he can make sure they both don't end up destitute one day.

Is this your house, DH's house or in both names? If your name is on it, I'd take care of the problem as hubby is seldom there. With him gone so much, he basically has dropped all the responsibility in your lap - upkeep of the house, bills, problems, and whatever else comes along. Now it's free-riding son's finances.
If the house is his, I'd get all my things, take my money, including my share of the joint accounts, and leave. DH apparently has decided this way of living is OK with him. He doesn't take care of anything as you do it all. I'm hearing more of why you don't like him than that of why you do. That would make one difficult marriage.
If,you are going to stay, Ask the son to get his checkbook and meet you at the table. Have him sit down and show him the notice. Remind him of already losing one vehicle and now probably this one. Th difference is his father's name is on this one. He has money for all those other things but didn't pay this. How much is in checking and is there any savings. You want x amount of money by tomorrow afternoon ( double payment plus late charges possibly listed in the letter). Get the money and make sure it clears if a check. Then when that's done, see if your husband's name can be taken off the loan.
NOW, kick his lazy, selfcentered, worthless a$$ out. He has one month to find a place. On such and such a date, his belongings will be outside. If you have to by law give him a notice in writing, hand it to him when you tell him one month. Check with the police and sheriff's dept and they may be able to tell you the law and what they can do.
If husband goes whacko, sorry, he's never there to take care of problems so you did what should have been done a long time ago. If your name is on the house, he can go live with son.
Sorry but I think you've allowed them to mistreat you for too long. What about you? What about your needs and happiness? Go buy a 2x4 and use it. :O)
Best of luck.
Lynn

Oh, that is exactly what I would like to do Lynn. And yea DH would definately go whacko that I upset his DS. I'm really angry about this. I asked DH today if SS had made his car payment yet (now 2 due) and he said he didn't know he hasn't talked to him. WTH?!

I am really pixxed and to the point that I really want to do exactly as you said above and insist the SS give us the payment every month 5 days before due date & we will pay it. And give him 1 month to get out. DH however will never go for it and think I'm horrible-but OH well. No house is not in my name though I am entitled to 1/2 of it by law. DH could never buy me out as he has given all his money to his adult kids, there is nothing left to give except his credit.

If this marriage ends I am prepared to walk away with my personal belongings and what I brought to the marriage.

That's fine. But I still am angry that these kids are screwing their dad over, irregardless of how things turn out with us. I can tell you this. This marriage will not stay intact with the current arrangement.

~Cat

The situation you've described is intolerable. Even if the kids move out, DH will still support/bail them and they'll visit constantly. It either can change or it can't. His decision to make, but given your description of relationship with his kids I wouldn't have any confidence it would go your way.

I vote for one more attempt at rational conversation. Can be friendly and straightforward, but there should be an ultimatum at the end of it. I'd be packed up and ready to go if it didn't work out.

Cat, if YOU leave, how are you prepared to live, if your name is not on the house and what makes you think you would get one red cent out of this guy? If he is like most, he will choose his son over you......blood is thicker than water. Do you have employment or any cash of your own so you can make it without any help from him?
If your name is not on the house, what is the law in your state to make you think you are entitled to any of it? I hope and pray that you are able to get your money out of it, but I would not count on it.

Is there any way that you can get a court order to make him and his lazy son put out? This is so darned hard when we enter into a second marriage and there are kids involved.

Hugs to you and be sure if you leave, you can support yourself....that may be all you can get from him.....a judge could say you abandoned the home and your H. Take all the cash from the bank etc. that you can get your hands on, take all documents, and anything you need to live...be prepared if you make the move....don't leave anything to chance.

Do you have a SOS house in your town?.....maybe you can scare him enough if you were to go there(and don't let him know where you are) for a few days to stay and let him think about it and make a choice....one or the other, but he can no longer have both.

Good luck and keep us posted....'cause we care.

Hi Phoggie, Asolo & All,

That's the law where I'm at I would be entitled to 50% of worth of the home, however I know my DH can't do that & wouldn't ask for it. If I leave, I leave. I love him very much & won't do to him what his own kids are.

Yes I can support myself modestly on my own..If I left now he most likely wouldn't know for a few days as he isn't here but I am negotiating a travel work contract and he is aware of this. I'd like to keep things okay between us because if the kids ever get out and become self supporting I would like to try and save our marriage.

However If I put the ultimatum to him like Asolo suggested I'm afraid it wouldn't be me he chooses. I really don't know. So my thinking is if I just go away and not force him to choose he can decide what he wants. I know this man loves me however I think the fear of losing his kids love if he doesn't provide is a greater pull for him than losing me.

I think he feels they "need" him more than I do? I really don't know, I'm playing psychologist here. I just know that it keeps me in a constant state of upset and it is destroying our marriage, no matter what he reasons are. He is the type of guy that would do anything to help friend or family, it is near impossible for him to say "no" to a request for help even at the cost of his well being.

I know in my heart if he had a heart attack or became ill from working himself sick like this I would resent the kids for it. There is just no excuse I can think of for the car loan to not have been paid.

Especially when they always have beer, money to eat out, travel up north and do extensive shopping for hunting gear/rifles etc...no living expenses at all. They both make a good livable wage. It is SS29 that is not paying the loan. Both SS's are livng here indefinately, though it is the older one 29 that the loan is for.

DH also has a 31 yr old son out of state that is totally responsible, put himself through college, hard working sucessful-very nice young man. He lost his young wife to ovarian cancer this yr. SS29 tried to hit him up to co-sign a loan not 2 weeks after his wife died. Older S was upset about it, told me and said DH needed to stop bailing him out-so he knows but I do not know if he knows to the extent on the $ DH has shelled out the past 7 yr.s. So this middle kid just has very poor priorities in my opinion. He is the father of our 4 yr old G-son. I think my DH fears he wont see G-son much if he cuts of SS.

I'm sure my DH knows this too and is already regretting co-signing the loan, but like I said he HATES confrontation andwill probably say nothing to SS.

It puts me in a bad spot in so many ways. I am trying to deal with my co-dependant issues, not get involved in the drama, and let DH deal with this since he did this against my wishes. I know the healthy thing for me to do is walk.

Yet because I love him and know he does this out of a twisted sense of obligation I feel incensed enough to want at least sit SS down and tell him how unacceptable this is and that he must give us cash for the car payment 5 days prior to due date so we know its paid. His credit is already ruined due to bankruptcy, reposessions etc, and it is NOT ok for him to damage DHs!. Now, I know if I do he will immediately call DH (as evidenced by past behavior) and tell him how mean I am and elaborate on what I said and DH will be angry with me for upsetting him when he is trying so hard-(Not!)

So that is a dilemna for me as it is difficult for me to shut my mouth & just let it go and let it happen (not try to control the situation that seems so out of control!)

Especially when he is living here with us and not helping in anyway-not even taking out the trash or keeping the bathroom he uses clean-Ugh!!!

Another book, aren't you glad you asked? Good grief..

~Cat

I do not know if this is good advice or really bad advice, but I will throw it in the ring for thought. Perhaps others could comment on whether this is a good direction to take, or a really bad idea.

What would happen if you spoke with the oldest son who is completely independent, and talked to him about the amount of money his father has shelled out to his brother, and the failure to pay another car loan is going to damage his Father's credit, and the middle son draining his father financially (see my post above) and the vulnerable position this is putting Dad in financially, and it is destroying his marriage as well.

If the older responsible son understands the whole picture, and grasps that it may become "his" problem down the road if Dad is destitute because irresponsible brother drained Dad, perhaps oldest son will get involved and get his Dad to understand he is hurting this son, by enabling him to a point that he never grows up and becomes the man he should be by now. He has a child, and is now a role model to this little 4 year old boy.

With the economy in the state it is in, Dad needs to help his adult son get fully on his feet, and start saving for whatever the future holds in these times of no job security, etc.

Can this oldest son get his Dad to understand, and help him get his brother on his own two feet?

Continued... or will this end up creating family problems she will wish she never started?

I would like others thoughts on this also.

I have thought of that, as eldest SS is super responsible and knows what SS29 is up to but not the extent of. I am sure he doesn't know I am leaving. He will be in town first weekend of Oct for his mothers wedding and I may see him but probably not alone. I have his email.

I think he would be very angry with SS29 if he knew how badly he was financially taing advantage of DH. I also think he would be very concerned about his fathers health. He & I have had a discussion about this when SS29 tried to hit him up for $ after his wife just died, and he was not happy with how younger brother was conducting himself. So he knows, just doesn't know how bad it is.

I hate to dump it on him though as I said his wife died 6 months ago and I'm sure he is still grieving. I know he would give his younger brother a good talking too and they are close, so ...?

~Cat

Oh, Cat...

You sound just like me, making every excuse under the sun about why the people around you don't have to be responsible for their actions, and you keep telling yourself that somehow if you are "just a little more understanding" or "give (fill in the blank) a good talking to" everything will turn into the little fantasy you have about a happy married life.

You are willing to let everyone elses bad decisions about their life ruin your life.

Well, if the co-dependent group is having any effect on you, you should be realizing that DH is never going to change, the SS are not going to change, the only one who can change is YOU. If you really want to stay with DH, then you are just going to have to learn to deal with being a doormat for everyone, maybe get some therapy to deal with the rotten feelings you have, but don't torture yourself with the constant flirting with moving out, if you have no real intention of doing so.

But if you want to live a healthy, happy life, you really have no choice but to move on and move out....and if you are owed half the house, then DH has to either buy you out or sell the house and give you what you are owed, it's that simple, don't torture yourself with "where would he and the SS live", IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

Disagree with Bnice....this is between you and your husband. The outcome is entirely dependent on what your husband does or refuses to do. Work it out with him or don't. He will regard your attempting to work something through the kids as a personal betrayal which will decrease rather and increase the likelihood of your desired result.

Cat~~
You need to ask yourself if you would be better off without DH or not.....it is YOUR decision to make....only you know your finances and if you can make it without his income.

Present it to him......it is one or the other...you can not have it both ways.....either you go, or the son goes...put in his ballpark, but you be very prepared if he chooses the son....and then get someone to give you an appraisal on that house...and demand it sold, either to him or on the market. Since it is your house also, evict him and SS...live there until it sells (unless you want to buy out his part)....and get on with your life IF this is what you want.....but you MUST look out for YOURSELF first!

Never give ultimatums unless you are prepared to carry them out!!...but be sure you have all your ducks in a row first.

"I am so afraid I will never be happy again. I just want to have a normal marriage with DH. Why won't they get out on their own and just let us be a couple?"

"They" don't have anything to do with it;
*he* does.

Why would the kids get out?

Their father is rewarding them for bad behavior, he's enabling them, he isn't going to change it because of any woman.

"Normal marriage" isn't an option with this guy, & the longer you keep yourself tied up with his disfunctional mess, the less time you have to create a happy life for yourself, alone or with another person.

Cut him loose, kick him to the curb, shake the dust off your shoes, etc.

Get out of this nightmare;
life *can* be enjoyed, but not as long as you keep doing something that renders it a misery to be endured until you finally fall into the grave, moaning, "if it just hadn't been for those kids".

Asolo, I know on the one hand, that your point is definitely valid. And yet, when there is a sibling within a family that is going through a parents savings, and their irresponsibility (not making payments so that car is repossessed (twice) and is ruining that parents credit rating, shouldn't the responsible sibling be aware of what is going on "BEFORE" there is a HUGE problem that ends up on his door step?

That is my point. I would absolutely want to know. wouldn't you?

The economy is scary. The Social Security pot is empty. Jobs are precarious. And when Dad (and irresponsible siblings) should be getting money into savings as fast as he can during his "earning years", this adult sibling is blowing it, and it is going to perhaps leave Dad destitute and it sounds like "both" will be on responsible oldest son's door step to take care of.

Shouldn't the oldest son be aware of this so that he is not blindsided, and left to take care of the other two who are not doing what they should be doing?

I know a guy who was in a similar position, and he stepped in.
It is amazing that adult men think it is OK to live like they are still children. It is different if they are responsible but lost a good job, or have health issues that prevent them from earning a living. Or need a helping hand because of an emergency. But as a way of life, it is amazing.

I guess some dads are just so darned blind as to what their "fair haired children" are doing to them....

DH is 77 and he has a 50 year old son who was in the business with him...DH just put all of his trust in this son....long story short....son embezzled several hundreds of thousands of dollars....dad just kept covering the business when son told him funds were low....result....my DH is completely broke....business (as well as our personal home) have a lien from the state from unpaid taxes....business is for sale....will take every penny of that (if ever sold) to pay off state..... DH won't press charges....son is just going on with life as if nothing has ever happened........talk about stress in our marriage!!!! So, don't count on your DH to ever stop supporting his son.....so you had better wake up and make sure you get everything you have coming from this marriage and get out now~~~~

Phoggie
That is awful.yes I am sad but ready to live my life with some peace, wich we all know isn't here. Dh would definitely take it as betrayal if I filled in ss31 on things here.dh knows something is up with me as I postponed my surgery when he told me he would drive me 0help me etc. Also we have definitely become more distant, I'm not sure if that's because I'm just the my breaking point or that we are rarely together anymore.
-Cat

Yes, CoDa has been the best thing I have done for myself.though I still have to really fight the urge to "control" the situation by tearing SS a new one @ getting involved with this loan mess. I am really trying to stay on track with what I can do for me and changing my behavior including what I will and will not live with. I am really hoping a travel job gets nailed down quickly but if it doesn't then I will just head south take a permanent job for now, the travel gig is Better as they pay for a furnished apt @ utilities. Excuse any typos please I'm using my blackberry @ the keys are so tiny!
I just wish somehow dh would have a "aha" moment but I know that is not realistic thinking.I do not want things to be the same only worse 5 years from now. Thank you all for your words of wisdom and strength.
-Cat

Yes, CoDa has been the best thing I have done for myself.though I still have to really fight the urge to "control" the situation by tearing SS a new one @ getting involved with this loan mess. I am really trying to stay on track with what I can do for me and changing my behavior including what I will and will not live with. I am really hoping a travel job gets nailed down quickly but if it doesn't then I will just head south take a permanent job for now, the travel gig is Better as they pay for a furnished apt @ utilities. Excuse any typos please I'm using my blackberry @ the keys are so tiny!
I just wish somehow dh would have a "aha" moment but I know that is not realistic thinking.I do not want things to be the same only worse 5 years from now. Thank you all for your words of wisdom and strength.
-Cat

Had a brief encounter with SS29 today, as I was pottying the poor old Dog he so desperatley wanted to keep but doesn't even pay attention to now.

He asked me what I was doing today, I told him I was very busy & had plans for this evening. He told me he was planning to pick up G-son for the weekend (he works afternoon shift now) and a friend was watching him til SS26 got home tonight but that SS26 probably would not be home til sometime around 11pm and could I watch him this evening.

I said "Nope, I'm way too busy and can not commit to that." Then I said to him "Your father received a notice that your car loan has not been paid." He said "Yea I know I talked to them about that." I said "Well did you talk to your Father about that?" He said "No." I then said "You know that is reported on your fathers credit report as a negative." He said nothing, just walked into bathroom and shut the door. I know-totally DH's own fault, I need to let it go and focus on what I'm doing.

But I DO feel better I said something even though I didn't say much. I really don't care if he says anything to DH or if DH gets mad that I said anything. Too bad. It's probably not following my CoDa program I should have not said a thing, but I feel much more able to let it go now that I made it clear to SS29 I know he is being irresponsible.

I am definately NOT available to baby-sit, and DH is going to be way to busy when he gets home tomorrow or Sunday. I'm working the weekend, but if DH commits *us* to babysitting, it will be him doing it. I'm done being used by this kid.

I know it was wrong, I should not have said anyhing about the loan-but I don't regret it.

And cable/internet came due & I Told DH I was not going to keep it on as I go to the library almost daily and have internet through my blackberry-so don't care. If kids want it then they can pay for it. That'll save us $100 a month. I know DH will cave and do it when he gets home, but it will be a long boring weekend for them with no sports on the big screen..won't bother me a bit. I know, what a witch I am..

~Cat

Phoggie
That is awful.yes I am sad but ready to live my life with some peace, wich we all know isn't here. Dh would definitely take it as betrayal if I filled in ss31 on things here.dh knows something is up with me as I postponed my surgery when he told me he would drive me 0help me etc. Also we have definitely become more distant, I'm not sure if that's because I'm just the my breaking point or that we are rarely together anymore.
-Cat

SS26 came home from the road (he trucks) late last night. This am he asked me if the cable/internet was off & I said "Yes, it is just getting to expensive. But you can go to the library, in fact any library when you are on the road and use it for free." He said "Well, I paid for it & had it turned on, just wanted to let you know..I like to check my emails when I'm here on the weekends, hope thats okay"

Now, that was really nice, & I thanked him for it & told him I'm sure his father would be really happy that he helped out like that.

So I guess my little no cable tv/internet experiment didn't last even 24 hours-lol..Oh well. I do think it was nice he took the initiative and helped out with a household bill though, even though really he is only here 2 days a week. Maybe this will rub off on his brother-but I'm not holding my breath.

~Cat

I am so very sorry about your situation. It sounds difficult. The particularly frustrating thing is that if your husband would change a little, your stepson would change a little, it would make your life so much better.

But you have to deal with them as they are, not as you want them to be. Your stepson won't change unless he has to, your husband won't change unless he wants to.

Ask yourself this question - where will you be in 10 years if you don't leave? Where will you be in 10 years if you do leave?

I think if you don't leave, in ten years your husband may be broke, could have health problems, and be dependent on you both as his caregiver and to earn the living for the both of you. Then how will you feel about leaving? You'll feel even guiltier, you may have health problems of your own, and you'll be ten years older. It will be even harder then to leave and make a peaceful, happy life for yourself.

I think down deep in your heart you know that your husband will not change unless something happens and he is no longer able to work. Either decide to stay married and accept your husband as he is, or leave.

I hope whatever choice you make, you will find happiness and peace, and enjoy your life. I know it's a difficult decision.

Cat,
Just curious. Does DH know you are looking for the travel job because of the issues at home?

Yes, he does but he also knows that I do not want to be here in the winter months as I have arthritis and my pain level increases dramatically in the cold. But yes.

As a matter of fact He & I were just talking about a travel position I was offered out west & I declined as it wasn't close enough to where I could easily see my family & son, but I mentioned to DH that it would be good esp for my knee pain to be in a warmer climate for the winter.

He said "So would having the surgery on it." I told him "Well I am not up for having surgery on Thurs then having the chaos of the kids & G-son all weekend when I am trying to recover. I did that last yr-twice- within a month and it was too stressful for me." DH got pissed and said "Your not blaming that (not having my knee sx) on the kids!" I very calmly said "Well that is exactly why I cancelled my surgery, I need peace and quiet to recover and I can't do that here right now." I said "Maybe I will have the surgery while I'm down south. DH said "you cant do that & work." I said "I mean't between assignments."

I then changed the subject and he tried to go there again but I did not take the bait and discussed dinner with him & what he was picking up for side dishes etc..

I could tell he was very angry with me esp when I flat out told him that I cancelled the surgery because of the full house but Oh well. It's the truth, so I guess he can just be angry with me, with else is new. You know he is the one that always said he wanted no more children after we got married he couldn't wait til they moved out etc..he keeps making excuses for them to have to stay longer and longer-then gets angry that I want to leave.

I can't help that, I do. I'm not doing it to hurt him, he is a very good provider and nice guy but there is more to life/marriage than being a good provider.

~Cat

Cat~~~
I can completely sympathize with you on your arthritis. I have moderate-severe in every joint in my body. I had a THR in Feb....he made me 1" taller in that leg, so complications ever since. Need to have both knees replaced, but keep getting cortisone shots to keep down the pain. But I KNOW I would NOT want to have to have people around me when I was trying to recover. You will need to get your rest when you can....and only you know what is best. I don't think our husbands realize all of the pain a replacement is....they would be real big babies if it were them!!...or at least, mine would.

Your husband needs to make an "either or" decision....but I think I know his answer.....so be prepared to "go it alone"...and that would be better than what you are having to go through. GOOD LUCK in whatever you decide....but keep us posted...I check on you every day.

Aww, Thanks Phoggie, that's very sweet of you :0)

Yea, I think if DH took one of my pain pills he would probably sleep 24 hours straight. He really does not get how much pain I am in on a daily basis and I have to walk 12 hours on this knee for my job.

It did feel good to just tell him tonight where I'm coming from, I know he didn't like it & I know he doesn't really want me to take a travel job, however he isn't willing to get the kids out of here and really that is just a symptom of the real problems in our relationship. Though it would be a place to start.

I was expecting the silent treatment when he got home tonight but really he has been quite pleasant and we had a very nice dinner together just he and I. He hasn't mentioned it again. Which is probably a good thing, because as far as I'm concerned it's just not up for discussion any longer. I'm kind of proud of myself for not trying to soften my words or spare his feelings regarding the surgery deal. I was calm but firm and that was that.

I think you are right, but really I don't want him to have to choose bewtween his children and me. I just want a "normal" exhistance and for his kids to be self sufficient.

I do not think HE can let them be on their own and deal with the consequences of the actions or lack of action, he can't stand to see them suffer, yet the end result is how do they learn to make it on their own in the world? Neither he or DH see him having responsibility for any part of his troubles. It's always someone elses fault, no matter what. But, I cannot make this my life, even if that's what DH chooses for himself.

Honestly I feel sorry for him because I wonder if he is capable of making it without someone else holding the reins & directing him in life.

I am prepared to go it alone. I don't want to, love DH but well, you know.

~Cat

It was horrible, I try to keep them seperate but my little Doxy snuck out of my office and in the living romm area I heard SS29's dog go after him. I FREAKED out totally when I heard him screaming and yiping as last year she almost killed my cat, cost us $1k and kitty had drains sticking out of his head for 3 weeks. I was expecting another bloody mess.

As soon as DH & I heard I ran to my Buster and he was trying to run to me but so upset and scared he was running and peeing screaching -Oh poor bABY!! dh went to find Layla SS's dog, she had run in to her & SS's room.

Bottom line is little doggie is fine, he had scratch on his tummy and screamed bloody murder over it. I had to take a xanax I was shaking so badly over it.

But I must say I feel horrible guilty I did not watch him more closely and had thought Layla was in her room with door shut. Dh said "She's in her room, she was in her room." Duh of course she was she ran in there after it happened.

I told DH the dog needs to be placed with a couple with NO kids or other animals, she is going to bite G-son one day! Or she just needs to be put down. I'm sorry but it's true. She is food agressive and older and arthritic. She is very sweet but des not want younger animals bothering her to play.

Anyway it was a very frightening reminder that I have to be SO careful keeping them apart while she is here, or rather while I am here.

No one else here seems concerned about this? I can't believe they aren't worried about four yr old G-son. Yes there is attachment to the dog but she is a biter-do they really want to risk that?

I'm so upset.

~Cat

Poor little Buster, he went up to our Lab who "mommies" him and tried to nurse her! He is 10 months old. She looked at him like "what the hell are yo doing?" I think the poor little guy was definately traumatized last night.

I feel terribly guilty that I wasn't watching closer. I'm so glad Buster is ok. DH just shrugs his shoulders when I ask him isn't he worried about G-Son getting bit?

He had these children when you married him. Did you know nothing about his life? You stated early on your finances are separate,so his helping his kids doesnt affect you. Have your dh rent the 'kiddies' another place and get on with your life.

Lucinda,
I do not appreciate your accusatory tone..

I also had a child when we married but he is not bleeding us dry for every cent we have.

Our life does not revolve around constant drama created by my son. He grew up, moved out and got a life.

Perhaps you should read a little of the history behind my story. I would never rent my home to these kids as they would never pay the rent. Aready 2 car payments behind on the car loan DH signed for and are paying for none of their living expenses as it is.

"Kiddies" are adults & need to be self supporting. And as far as getting on with my life-I'm trying the best I know how.

Thanks for your support. No, really.

~Cat

There's no reason to allow your own dog to be in danger & to be traumatized, & there's *no way* to be sure the aggressor stays "in her room";

you cannot protect your dog as long as the other one is in the same house;
eventually, she'll kill him, or she'll kill your cat.

or she'll kill a neighbor's pet, or she'll maul a neighbor or a neighbor's child, or she'll maul you.

I'd have her put down;
in my opinion, an aggressive dog is too dangerous to try to re-home.

& "knowing he has kids" doesn't give those kids license to take advantage, & it doesn't give a husband license to allow his kids to take advantage.

Sylvia,
That's exactly how I feel.
-Cat

"If this marriage ends I am prepared to walk away with my personal belongings and what I brought to the marriage."

Let's not be hasty here! Community property laws were made so people will get their FAIR share. You have the rest of your life to live, you have put up with a huge burden and you deserve to have one half of assets. However, if these "kids" continue to drink the well dry, there may be nothing to split up. This has transcended a love problem, it is now a business/financial problem of epidemic proportions and the rest of your financial life is on the block! For chrissakes, wake up!

Scarlett,
I get you, really I do. But the assets are gone. All there is is debt. I would never force my DH to put the house up for sale, because of the housing market there is no equity. This house was his before I came along, I have no rights to it in my mind. He pays the house pymt.

DH is self employed. He gets by month to month, but has no assets besides his tools/stuff. Irregardless of everything that's happened he has paid my bills this past few months after my knee blew out. He was supportive after my multiple health problems the past few yr.s.

So I just will not be one more person that pushed him to financial disaster. I have to know in my heart I did the right thing and tried my best you know? He works very hard physical labor, the man kills himself working to support everyone, seriously. I could never do that.

Long ago, things were very different between us. There was a lot of hope for the future. I know that man is there under all this. He just isn't available to me anymore. I never ever thought I would be feeling like this.

I can do just fine on my own. He has nothing financially to give me, it's all gone. Frankly I feel terrible that he will probably end up totally dependant on the kids or the government in his old age.

"business/financial problem of epidemic proportions and the rest of your financial life is on the block."

I'm ok, just need to keep socking away at my little retirement fund. I am glad we've kept finances seperate all along though.

Speaking of odd, last night I had a show at a local gallery and DH stoppedby on his way home from work (strange?) just to see how it was going-I guess, he didn't really say why? He isn't normally to interested in what I'm doing..It was nice, but strange..

We are supposed to go to a movie tonight but he has been in his ofice since he got home, so I'm not getting my hopes up :0( Been a long time, not sure I know how to act on a date anymore.

~Cat

Oh Cat~~

Our lives are so parallel....except I am 11 years older than you are.
Our marriage is drained.....and the sons have taken all of the finances....and both have bad joints!!!

I just hope and pray that the small amount of assets that I came into this marriage are safe in my trust...his name is on nothing of mine, nor mine wasn't on his.....but with his son's extreme embezzling and DH covering for it, he has nothing left, except his SS check and half ownership in our house (which the state has a lien on for unpaid taxes).

He was such a pleasant, caring, loving person when we were married.....but now his TV and recliner is his only "love". I know he is depressed, but so am I, but he doesn't want to even try to do anything about it....refuses counseling....he thinks he knows it all...even more than the counselors or doctors......even argued with my cardiologist that this stress is killing me.

I don't want to leave (and can't anyway without being able to sell this house to get my half back).....and it is not pleasant to think that I will be all alone at 66....but I feel more alone IN this marriage than I did when I was single.

I hope things will turn around for you and you can make it on your own and you do find happiness as everyone deserves, but with my deteriating health, I have given up hope for myself......just try to get by until God calls me home.

Phoggie, you are ONLY 66. You most certainly can start over and be happy.

I know what you are saying about feeling more lonely in the marriage. I said almost the same thing to my mother today.

I'm just so damn sick of my life revolving around these "adult" kids dramas for years. There is no end in sight. No, I take that back there is a end in sight but I will be the one to do it.

I love him but I'm just done living like this.

I hope you put your house up for sale and do it, get out and take your life back! I know the market is bad but my inlaws passed away last yr and DH & siblings listed the house 3 months ago and it sold in 1 week-so you never know.

I felt that way about being alone too but feel even more alone now because I know my emotional needs come dead last in this family/house. I don't want to be last anymore. I think we both deserve better.

((Hugs))

~Cat

SS32 was here for his mothers wedding. We had the opportunity to spend a little more time with him as after the wedding he had the rest of the weekend.
So Gson was also here FR through Mon per usual, and we all went to breakfast Sat was fine & pleasant. After breakfast SS26 and 29 decided they wanted to go hunting, SS32 doesn't hunt so decided to come shopping with DH and I. So while in the car SS32 gave us a completely different story on the dog issue. He told us that his mother loved the dog but that SS29 was not giving her money to pay for dogs vetting and food costs and that she had asked him to come over one afternoon on his weekend off and bath the dog, help her with some vaccuming and give her money for dog food. He told us SS29 got angry came over threw $60 bucks on the table and said "Im taking my dog." and left. That's not what we were told. We were told that DH's ex was having a fit about all the dog hair and cussing SS29 out and calling him everything in the book.
Now I thought it awful at the time but SS32's story makes a lot more sense to me. Dog has been here a few weeks now, not bathed once, he pays no attention to her and does not even remember to feed her most of the time. I feel bad because she has no quality of life here because we can't let her roam freely as she is food agressive and can't be trusted not to bite. Neither SS26 or 29 will respect the keeping her seperate from my little daschaund in particular as they do not like him or my cats and they let her out around them all the time.
SS32 also asked us what SS29 was doing with all his money, why hadn't he moved out etc. DH just defends him. SS32 said "I didn't have crap the first 5 yr.s I was out on my own it took me this long to get stable and be able to buy a house, I didn't have any toys or new car etc".
DH just defends them, says "well they want to enjoy, they work hard" an so on. I did tell SS32 about the missed car payments when he asked me during a moment alone about SS29's spending issues. He told me in confidence he was so glad he didn't cosign for his brother as this would have ruined his chances for a mortgage on his new home. I said "You bet you boots!" He was upset said he felt obligated to kick his younger brothers ass. I told him to just concentrate on his own life, it wasn't his problem and he shouldn't have to deal with it. As it was really between DH & SS29.

So the next day SS26 decided to go hunting for pheasant, he came back later in the day with a plastic bag with dead birds in it. OK, DH and I are sitting on the couch together watching TV and I asked what it was he said "a pheasant" I said "OK, well you cannot clean & dress it in the kitchen you need to defeather & gut it out in the garage as I'm allergic to feathers. I have LOTS of allergies and food allergies which kids are well aware of. I had already agreed to cook said pheasant for SS when he asked me if I would the day before. SS26 got really loud and says "Jesus Christ is there ANYTHING you aren't allergic too!?!" Very nasty & loud. DH sat there, let him talk to me like that and said nothing. I looked at DH and said " You know I feel so unwelcome in my own home." DH said "Oh, stop it."
It is obviously fine with him that I get disrespected and treated like s$%t by them.
Things then went from bad to worse. SS29 came home and went to bed about 7pm leaving Gson running around the house, throwing balls, jumping on top of the dogs, squeezing them around the necks, grabbing the cat, runningfrom across room and jumping onto the couch. It was ridiculous. I got so tired of saying "stop it" or "don't do that!" or trying to get him to color or play with something quiet so I could watch my show on the big tv.
I asked Gson "Where is your dad?" he says "sleeping." I said "Go wake him up and tell him to take care of you." DH still sitting there, thinking this is cute while I am getting pissed & irritated as I have been waiting all week to watch these two shows. Gson comes back and says "Daddy has to sleep because his back hurts." Again, DH just ignores this. So halfway throug the second show I got up and went in the other room. This is what SS29 does when Gson is here, just leaves him in the living room and then goes to sleep.
So, anyway a commercial comes on for a riverboat cruise and DH comments that it looks fun. I said "Yes it does and you've been saying that for 5 yr.s and we've never gone."
So last night he sent me a link to the cruise reservations online and asked me what night would be good for me. I told him Fri and he said hewould take care of everything. Maybe he is ready to throw me overboard HaHa.. It is a very nice gesture and I'm sure we will have fun.
But in the mean time my livng situaton has become intolerable. Seriously. The S kids are being extremely rude to me especially whe DH isn't around, then they step it up. It is almost as bad as that first two years of marriage. SS26 is mean to my little dog, if he runs up to him excited he says "Get the F away from me!", just nasty all the time.
If I had the money today I would walk right now. I am so done living like this, done, done, done. I love my DH but a romantic evening is not going to make it all better. I know he is trying to do something romantic possibly as a belated anniversary thing, but it will not change my plans. Nothing short of him telling them to get the hell out of this house yesterday, and stopping the financial drain and making a committed effort to putting me first would change my mind and I do not see that happening.
I cannot tell you all how unpleasant this has become on a daily basis. I HATE to come home, everyday. They want me gone & so do I. Wonder if they even get we have the same goal, for me to be out of here.
I HATE living like this. DH will not address any of these situations. I think the SS's feel threatened that their living arrangements are in jeapardy, though truly they ae not. They can all live together happily ever after as far as I'm concerned, just wish I could afford a temp place to stay til I start assignment.
Ok, guess you get another cookie, maybe two if you made it through all this. I'm a little frustrated and fearful for my pets, can you tell?
~Cat

Cat....I hear you~~~~and that is exactly what I have been doing a lot~~~grabbing another cookie....or maybe the whole bag!!! That seems to be the only enjoyment there is for me anymore....and eating is my friend and doesn't snap back at me with nasty remarks!!

I hope your assignment starts very soon...so you can get out of that house....I think this is the only option you have left....sounds like DH has made his decision and chosen his corner!

But yet, he makes the romantic gesture. It confuses me. He has paid my bills the past 3 months due to my knee injury. I will be able to take them back over Nov. He brings me little gifts, doodads, something special I like to snack on. He is always very thoughful with the little romantic gestures.

Always remembers anniversarys, birthdays and special occasions. Very supportive during my multiple illnesses and surguries, great financial provider. He really is a nice guy. He just will not put any limits on the kids of any kind.

How I'm treated in this home, ugh.

I am really looking forward to Friday evening, but DREAD having to be here the rest of the weekend with the kids, the nasty remarks and being stuck babysitting yet again..

DH asked me again tonight if I talked with the recruiter and I said yes, he asked "And?". Then he asked about another job I am interviewing for here at a big cancer center. I told him my interview is the 16th there, I could very well have my travel gig nailed down by then and thus make that opportunity a moot point. He knows this. He dropped it & I wasn't offering any information.

Because the bottom line is if by some very slim chance and a REALLY good financial offer I decided to stay here in the freezing tundra for this job. I would get my own apt and still move out. He can come stay with me, visit or whatever but I need to be in a place where it's my name on the lease and I decide the conditions I live under. Maybe our relatioship would be more equal and have more of a chanve if I was in my own place. It would certainly make things more bearable for me and the kids would be thrilled to have me gone I am sure.

I do not wish to stay and live here under these circmstances any longer. I know he wants to help his kids and that's fine, it's something he just has to do in order to feel ok I guess. I'm not asking him to choose. I'm not askng him to go to counseling again. If he decides he wants to change what's happening he will have to approach me about it. I feel very sad things are this way, I know a lot of it is my fault for letting things get to this point, yet I'm anxious to get a move on. It would take a lot of effort and willingness to change to change my frame of mind at this point.

~Cat

Okay, I hear you on the financial side-but when you divorce, don't give up half his pension or Social Security-you have a right to that.

As for the "kids" being rude to you - be more assertive! If they yell at you, give'em back their pain.The grandkid is raising hell, go wake up his parent and tell him to get his aching butt in gear and take care of the kid. People will treat you any way you allow them to and if you can just be a little less "nice" and yell at them or assert yourself in whatever way you have to, you will soon be treated with more respect. They know their dad is a pushover and are lumping you in that category, too. What have you got to lose there? If you don't know how to assert yourself, please use this mantra. You can repeat it to yourself or to them, over and over: "I am NOT anybody's doormat!"

Hi Scarlett,
Unfortunately whe I say there are no assets, I mean none. Dh is self employed @ owes more on the house than its worth now.

Yes I know what you mean about the doormat stuff, I scheduled to work sat @ sun so I just won't be around for it. Too much craziness for me. I've left there dirty dishes in the sink x 3 days, still not touched. Anyway, gotta go push some pills.

-Cat

Cat~~

IF you can truly make it on your own financially, I think you might strongly consider renting yourself an apartment and move out....at least, you would be away from the SS and not have to look at their mess. BUT, this is what they are probably wanting to happen, but nothing is getting better for you where you are at. DH might realize you mean "business" and come to his senses, and if you want to see him, tell him he can come to your place, but until things are different at his house, you do not intend to come there. Be prepared for him to choose his sons....but emotionally, he has done that anyway...right?

Sure am thinking about you.....I know what it is like to live with discord all the time.....but unlike you, I do need DH's SS check to help with the household bills, I can't do it alone.....especially since our house has the state lien on it and this lousy stock market crash.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do. Phoggie

Hi Phoggie,
Yes, I am sure if I did that DH would not "come to his senses" or anything. He has become much more set in his ways the last few yrs about everything. He knows I am unhappy living like this and the bottom line is his kids come first, no matter what.

I'm starting to think I'm cursed. Just got offered the perfect travel job, out west, warm weather, monday through friday and get ready $7.00 LESS than I make here. I can't do that-good grief! What a total let-down.

Tonight DH & I are going on the dinner cruise thing. I'm sure it will be nice and fun. The bad part is we have to come home to a houseful after.

If I cannot get a travel assignment nailed down by Nov, I am going to rent a apartment, probably at least 30 mintes away from here more in the metropolitan area so I can keep myself busy outside of work. I'm pretty involved the arts so it would bring me closer to other artists and galleries which I would very much enjoy.

Phogie in thinking of your situation, can you go to your trust and withdraw enough to get your own place? You need to find out what is happening with that and be sure your SS has not gotten into it somehow, though I don't see how he could have if your DH was not on the paperwork anywhere.

Plus with the markets out may want to see where your portfolio is, though I sure wouldn't sell right now. This time next yr stocks will be up again I bet (not sure about GM though). Wish I had some extra cash I'd be snapping up the health industry stocks right now.

Anyway, I'm bummed about the offer from the travel agency, I have almost 20 yr.s experience and almost fell off my chair when she quoted me the rate.

~Cat