"I just can't get myself to leave." "...drunk sex..." "...attention deficit disorder..." "I deserve all of this."

etc.

This is just silly. So, you messed up. That doesn't mean you're required to wallow in it for all time.

Regardless of ALL you've described, you don't have to live like this. You can wear your guilt for a while if you want to but you don't have to allow it to govern the rest of your life. It doesn't have to be the identity you seem to have made of it. It doesn't matter. Gird your loins, make a plan, and act on it. You're all grown up. You can do whatever you want. Get rid of your ogre and move along.

Does it matter if someone else who doesn't even live with him calls it "emotional abuse" or not? What if they called it "jabberwocky" would it make any difference in how he's treating you? YOU live with him, YOU know how he is, the rest of the world can butt out. They don't matter. This is between you and him, not the marriage counselor or anyone else.

I think not wanting to have sex with a man who belittles you and calls you horrendous names on a regular basis is NORMAL. To want to be with him is insane. You must be OK then.

Now, find your backbone and demand to be happy. If it takes leaving him, so be it. There is much more to life than barely tolerable drunk sex and misery.

You said "I deserve all of this", this is the problem, this is why you stay.

Try improving your self esteem, then you will have the strength to deal with this situation.

You deserve to be happy, thats what you deserve.

Have you talked to your hubbie, does he want to split up ?

Go outside, look at the trees, flowers, sky, water, look at beauty, go for a walk, remove the fog from your thinking. Look after yourself, fill your mind with positive thoughts, not negative, misery.

Hugs to you, you'll get through, stick at it.

Today is the first day of you happy future. (I sound like Dr Phil)

Okay let's back up and get some background on abusers:
1. did you know it is never the abusers fault. It will alway be your fault. Yes that is how they work. They are never at fault and they will have worked at belittling you for so long that they will have shattered your self esteem so you feel like it is your fault. Does this sound familier.

2. If you are thinking "is this abuse", the answser is YES. Would you call someone you loved a C*NT or a WH0RE? NO, So if he says he loves you and still does that, the answer is no he does not love you in the way you deserve to be loved.

3. You hit him, that is not good. The fact that he hit you so hard it left a bruise is not good either. Don't think that it was your fault though. He could have stopped himself. He choose not to.

Now of course he does not want you to leave. Who will be his emotional (and now physical) punching bag when you do? NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Your problem right now is getting the courage to leave. Confide in your physical friends if you have to. You'll be surprised that some of them have BTDT, or know someone that has. FInd a women's abuse shelter and talk to their counselors. They will give you the best advise on getting a plan to GET OUT. You cannot do this without that plan.

REmember when you do this he will be nice to you. He will apologize, he will promise to never do this again, you will go through a "honeymoon" phase where everything will be nicey-nicey then everything will go back to the way it was...and then get progressively worse. This is their pattern, and yes it is a pattern.

Can they change...SOME can and do, very few. They have to see they have a problem, admit THEY have a problem (see item #1), and WANT to change (rember he always wants YOU to change, it's never him). Bottom line...I doubt it.

Does it hurt more than it feels good.....if it does GET OUT. Find that abuse shelter in your area, get their help, and GET OUT. It will take a while of counseling but you can build up your self-esteem and get on with your life. In that time you will find that you are a wonderful person..something I'm willing to bet you don't feel right now!!!

Vickey-MN

Kathryn,

You say you deserve all this? NO ONE deserves the verbal and emotional abuse he is dishing out. This is probably where you're stuck. The fact that you think you deserve it. You have to change that mindset, before you're able to think about finally leaving him.

You deserve to be happy. Your life is what you make it. If the thought of leaving seems overwhelming to you, then change one behavior (something that makes you feel good). Something that will build your self-esteem. Practice it everyday. Then start to add other feel-good thoughts and actions into your day. Before you know it, you will have a different thought process...you WILL be different. Build yourself up. There are plenty of people out there willing to tear you down, so you be YOUR builder! Think about yourself.

There doesn't seem to be any love in this relationship. You are not going to fix him, so don't even go there. You have not made him this way. He chooses to behave in this negative, poisonous way.

You say it's hard to leave because of financial issues and he said he would keep the pets? Friend, it's better to be poor, then be humiliated daily. And who said he gets the pets? You have a say in the matter.

Wishing you strength...you can lift yourself out of it!

OP here...I haven't been back to read what everyone said for a few days because it's hard to hear the truth.

I'm so mad at myself for letting myself get in this situation. I had an abusive fiance when I was 20, and I left him as soon as he hit me the second time. I was always proud of myself for getting out of that and getting out fast. Then I spent my life becoming a strong, independent career woman. I'd dated and dated for the next decade and had my heart broken more times than I cared to remember. Two of the most important relationships ended when the man cheated on me and each time I broke up with them when that happened but it ripped my heart out. So I finally decided to choose someone who I trusted not to cheat on me. That's why I "settled" for my current husband. I was never totally crazy about the sex (hence the earlier mention of drunk sex) but I loved him and he was kind and I thought he'd make a great dad and he was a great provider and those qualities seemed more important to me than the sex issue.

That's the irony of my current situation. I thought I was getting a good guy and I ended up with the worst possible husband imaginable. He says it's me. He says I'm hard to live with. Possibly true, but possibly not true.

Popi, you mention I need self-esteem. Yeah, where did that go? Unfortunately it's not something to get back quickly. I spent years building my self-esteem up to the point where I was comfortable living alone and dating only those guys who were worthy. And yet somehow I ended up in this nightmare of a marriage.

Why don't I leave? Several reasons. We recently moved 1,500 miles from his hometown to my hometown so I feel guilty at the idea of leaving him here alone. He moved to try to make us happy together again.

I also worry about the pets. He insists that he'd keep two of our four dogs and that would make me so sad. They are my children since I cannot have children. But yet I couldn't manage four dogs on my own, either. So by staying I get to see all four of my lovely dogs all the time and they do make me happy.

I still hold out hope that he will calm down and act like a normal human being. He tries, but then he seems to forget and he goes nuts over little things again. I keep thinking that living in this new place will make a difference.

Before, I said we were remodeling. I wasn't truthful. I didn't want to admit that we're doing much more than that. We're actually building a house from the ground up. All of our money is tied up in the house and I can't imagine building this beautiful home and not being able to live in it. I keep thinking that perhaps once we're in the house then things will change, as crazy and unlikely as I know that to be.

I feel like a failure at the idea of moving back to my hometown and living in anything other than a grand house like the one we're building. I've been in enough therapy to know that that is my issue and one to deal with, but it's real and it's there and I can't shake it. I lived here growing up when we were fairly poor as a blue-collar family. I always felt unimportant compared to those in nice homes with dads with high-paying jobs. I went away for 20 years and created a great career for myself and made money and (I thought) married a nice man. Now I find the joke is on myself if I have returned to my hometown only to live in a small home no better than the one I grew up in (which is all I could afford if I moved out right now, before the other house is built and sold) and without a job. My old job doesn't exist in this town, at least not at the salary I used to make.

I'm so sad and so depressed. The therapists have all told me that I'm depressed but I can't take depression meds because I continue to hold out hope for a pregnancy. (Yes, even with this icky husband.) He does try to make me happy and there are many good moments, but then because overall we're both so desperately unhappy the smallest things make our lives go bad again. Two days ago we were out on the construction site looking at the home going up and I asked him to hold me. We stood there, hugging, and I started crying and saying that I didn't want to leave him, to leave the forever home we're building, due to our fights. He said that wouldn't happen and it was a nice moment. But then he said that if I'd just stop spending money on things I shouldn't then it'd be okay.

I am bad with money. That is true. I went to Wal-mart to buy frozen peas yesterday and spent $77. So that started another fight. But I think I spend money to try to ease the pain a little. I've done that my whole life and I'm doing it again.

And it's not as if we don't have money. We made nearly $300,000 profit on the house we sold recently. But we put most of it back into the house we're building. So there's only something like $100,000 left in the bank. Split that, and put it down on a new house for just me and I'd be broke again.

I'm sad. What has become of the real me? Sorry to whine. God, I hate myself these days. I'm now one of THOSE women who I used to consider weak.

It sounds like your life is a real mess right now, Kathryn, and that you're having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees...
You've clearly had periods of determination, strength and clarity -- you left an abusive fiance, you built a successful career, you managed a single adult life successfully, you dated with a discerning eye, and you finally chose a man you thought would be a good husband. That's all good --

But now you seem to be seeing yourself as a messy wreck of a person -- out of control, over spending, trying to maintain the pretense of a succesful life and marriage when you feel it's rotten at the core. Conflicted about wanting to get pregnant even though your marriage isn't working. Can't take the meds you need for depression because you want to get pregnant, but you're having trouble conceiving...

Picture this: You don't take the depression meds, continue your downward spiral, maybe you do get pregnant, you get hormonal and become even more emotional, your marriage gets even harder and more abusive with the added stresses, you get Zero support and even worse tearing down, and you scramble like mad to keep up pretenses that everything is wonderful. Your neighbors laugh and gossip behind your back because they know what's really going on in that fancy house. Sound like fun?

Or how about this: You take the depression meds and they help, you don't get pregnant, you get out of a marriage that's damaging to you, regain some of your self-esteem as a result of your decisive action, sell the fabulous house that's constraining your financial options as soon as it's done and buy something small but charming in a lovely neighborhood, and once again become the strong, independent clear-headed you that you used to like. Your neighbors are impressed by your down-to-earth honesty, lack of pretense, courage and character.

We're all constantly reinventing ourselves -- growing and changing, sometimes for the better, sometimes regressing.
Who do you want to be next month? Next year?
You can't control how your husband will react, how he'll treat you, even how you'll feel about him.
But you can control who you want to be and the steps you are going to take.

You don't like the path you're on, but only you can decide to turn it around.

"Who do you want to be next month? Next year?"

"....you can control who you want to be and the steps you are going to take."

Pay attention to sweeby. She knows stuff. Decide. Plan. Act.

Get out...out of the house and the marriage. You are being abused...there are women's shelters all over that will take you in and get you on your feet.
Do not promote the longevity of abuse...let it stop with you. You had an abusive father and have chosen an abusive husband. You need counseling to get out of that rut...but chances are huge that if you marry again you will marry another abuser.
Get some advice...and get out of the house before he mains you!
Linda C

Ditto of what Lindac and sweeby say, and are you nuts??? Wanting to get pregnant??? Why bring a child into this madness. It will only magnify a horrible situation that already exists and make it more difficult to get out of it, which eventually you will. He isn't going to change.

well, I ordered five books on emotional abuse from amazon.com today. I hope that reading them will help me understand what's happening so that I can feel strong enough to make some decisions.

someone above mentioned that I had an abusive father. Actually, that's not true. My father wasn't abusive in the slightest and we still have a great relationship.

luckily, I don't need a women's shelter. I have the means with which to get out, just not in the style to which I'm accustomed. and I have tons of family living near me, so I could always get help from them. I'll keep all of that in mind as I make my decisions. for now, I'm waiting until the books arrived (which I did order for expedited delivery!) reading always helps me to see things in black and white.

I am surprised at the tone of many of the posts here. For instance, calling me nuts for wanting to have a baby? for what it's worth to the person who posted that, you have absolutely no idea what I've been through to try to get pregnant all these years. after waiting for many years, I was finally pregnant at this time last year and then my baby died at seven months gestation and I delivered my stillborn child. that was probably the final straw to my sanity and my marriage. hence the depression. and the sadness and the lack of drive to change anything. It's only normal to want to try to get pregnant again. my marriage was so special during my pregnancy. my husband was the dream husband I'd always thought he could be. but then we lost the baby and after a few months, the fights started again. one therapist told me that she didn't think my husband was bad, or that I was bad, just that some people aren't meant to be together.

kathrynca - I am the one who wrote that. I was only referencing your present situation as you have spelled it out, not being aware of your history, which is tragic. My point was, and still is, that bringing a child into this marriage, as you describe it now, would be disasterous. It seems like you should be getting some group therapy with other women in your situation. The books may help to some degree, but I know from personal experience, we can put a slant on what we read, whereas one-on-one with women who have been there presents a much better picture of how things really are.

Are you aware of how many excuses you are making for his behavior and for your alleged shortcomings?

Please re-think your position.

"....my marriage was so special during my pregnancy. my husband was the dream husband I'd always thought he could be."

This is new.

Is this really wrapped up about babies, then? His desires for that? Your desires for that? Don't know how to drill down to the base of this unless you say.

One other possibility --

Are you taking hormones to help you conceive? I hear they can make you absolutely NUTS with erratic behavior, mood swings, irrational thoughts? Or have you had your hormones thoroughly evaluated in-depth by an endocrinologist specializing in fertility? (NOT a GP or Gyno)

If this is part of the picture, than more info about your pre-hormone marriage would be in order.

to try to answer the questions...yes, I'm a crapload of hormones periodically. I've done more IUI and IVF cycles than I care to count. (Okay, if we're counting, it's been 11.) The shock of not getting pregnant has devastated our marriage. we finally found success on one of our IVF cycles and then to lose the baby so far along just broke our hearts. That was a year ago this week and I don't think our hearts will ever heal. Now my husband is feeling extra sad because we have to turn to donor embryos in order to try to get a pregnancy to have the slightest chance of working. So we'll no longer have a genetic connection to any child we might get. but he is willing to do that and that says a lot. most women I know with infertility issues have husbands who won't consider donor embryos.

part of the stress is that we have spent about $80,000 on infertility treatments (and that's with insurance covering some of it) over the four years of our marriage and we are feeling overwhelmed with sadness and loss that we can't escape. my husband doesn't want to talk about his feelings. I went to group infertility therapy with other women and it helped, but my husband only went once and didn't want to go back. his culture does not believe in therapy. I did research and learned that his culture places a stigma on seeking psychiatric help. they consider it only for crazy people. so I cannot talk him into going.

our marriage was okay before the infertility problems. I'd say that I loved being married about 90% of the time. That's pretty good. (I always measure things in the % of time I'm happy.)

again, as i mentioned, he was controlling even early on by complaining if the house wasn't clean like his mother kept their house growing up, but he never called me names and we didn't have the fights like we have now. I remember how kind and loving and gentle he was in the three years we dated before we moved in together and I wish I could go back to those days.

yes, I said I wasn't crazy about the sex with him even then. but it was nice. it just wasn't rollercoaster crazy monkey sex. :)

but more about me - I am never crazy about sex once I get 2-3 months into a relationship with someone. I pull away sexually and turn that part of my brain off and usually drop the guy like a hot potato. I made myself stop that behavior (through therapy) and work through it. One thing I didn't mention yet was that I married someone else once I broke up with the abusive fiance. He was such a kind, nice, gentle man, but I cheated on him because I was bored sexually as soon as the ink was dry on the marriage license. Yeah, I was very young and obviously very stupid, but that's what I do in relationships. so I divorced that guy and then let myself be mostly alone for several years so that I could learn about myself and what I needed and to grow up.

I don't know if I've sabatoged the one I'm in or if it was doomed. I'm so confused. I do love my husband. The past week has made me think about things in depth and I know that I love him and I still wish with all my heart that this could work. We've both just turned so far away from each other in our sadness and it's channeled into anger with my husband and it's depression for me.

and yeah, of course I make excuses for him and for myself. isn't that what we all do when we're trying desperately to find a reason to stay?

Let me get this straight. You moved back to your hometown to show off your "perfect" life. All you need now is a baby and everything will be OK. Suddenly your husband is going to be a saint, your depression will vanish in thin air, you'll love having sex with your husband and you'll live happily ever after in your beautiful new home with 4 dogs.

Yeah, right.

meghane - Well put. Many years ago I had to be verbally "kicked in the stomach" by a very good friend to see the light. Dancing around the self-esteem Maypole doesn't do it.

"... the self-esteem Maypole...."

Wonderful! Too seldom spoken.

gee, thanks, meghane. I don't get nearly enough abuse from my husband so I really appreciate getting more of it here.

I think I'll leave this board now. I wanted help and real advice and while some people are kind enough to give it, others prefer glib posts that do nothing but try to further damage my self-esteem.

goodbye to all and thanks to those who seriously tried to be helpful.

Just repeating what I read from your posts. Was I incorrect in my interpretation? If so, then I am sorry. Wasn't trying to damage your self esteem. You are doing a good job of that without my help.

I really don't understand what you want. You're unhappy but you won't leave, in fact making up every excuse to stay (dogs, new house, possibility of baby, etc.). Nobody can change the way your husband acts except him. Feel free to stick around, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to change. You ask whether or not he's abusing you, everyone says yes, and then you defend him or your choices. It seems silly to keep offering advice when everything that is said is met with a "oh woe is me, it's all my fault" etc etc etc.

Want real advice- go see a psychiatrist for your depression and lack of self esteem. Reading feel-good books isn't going to get what you need. You need professional help for your depression and lack of will to change.

Touche Meghane, she is in total denial (another overworked phrase), but nonetheless.

luckily, I don't need a women's shelter. I have the means with which to get out, just not in the style to which I'm accustomed. and I have tons of family living near me, so I could always get help from them.

How fortunate that she can hide with family members and not face the truth.

Kathrynca really needs to evaluate whether or not she has reasonable expectations for this relationship. From what she described, it doesn't sound like it. I don't think she is lying or stretching the truth either- she sounds like an honest person. But the more she posted, the more I got the feeling like she wanted someone to say that everything is going to work out. Even when she gets real help for her depression/hormonal issues (separate from the marriage issues), which I hope she does, it's not going to change the other person in the relationship. She is never going to be "perfect" enough for him- which is HIS problem, not hers. It sounds like he has unreasonable expectations as well.

After I wrote last night, that is what my worry is. That she thinks that if she is perfect, then he will change. She blames herself for the problems, which is not right. There is no excuse for his name-calling and hitting her. But she needs to face that reality. I was hoping to provide the wake-up call.

That's the trouble with being abused... After a while, you start to believe you're as worthless as he tells you you are. And it's certainly working on Kathryn. There's a lot of prevarication that goes on before you gather up the courage and the emotional resources you need to leave. After all, the most effective abusers glom onto a sliver of truth for their rants, then build it out of proportion. But there is that small element of truth that makes the whole rant seem somehow plausible.

Trouble is that for Kathryn, leaving means admitting her dream life -- which still somehow seems attainable to her -- really isn't attainable at all. She's still not ready to trade that hollow, fragile shell for the truth. My sense is that she's deeply afraid of being thought a fool or a failure.

Not that it's fun for any of us (ask me how I know) but there is life and laughter and true support on the other side. Hope she gets there.

Apparently any point of view that is not complimentary qualifies as "abuse" to this OP. Perhaps she would have been better off posting on the grieving forum. She appears to be seeking sympathy and comfort rather than advice or perspective. Given the situation she described, I don't see how such a limit would be "helpful". Rather, it would reinforce the helplessness she seems to claim as her identity. If she would take the initiative and accomplish something, the "self esteem" she seems to crave would follow in due course.

kathrynca,
Look up emotional abuse, there are plenty of websites with lists. Men who are abusive all have similar traits, down to their mannerisms, if you are or think you are in an emotionally abusive relationship after reading these "checklists" it will be perfectly clear. I was for me, I kept feeling that something wasn't right, but of course I thought it was me. This link I have posted before really helped me understand that I needed to get this person out of my life, completely!

Here is a link that might be useful: When Mr Right turns out to be Mr Wrong

We all went right by this one;

"his culture does not believe in therapy. I did research and learned that his culture places a stigma on seeking psychiatric help. they consider it only for crazy people."

And that would be which culture?

OP - Please get a life of your own. Get a therapist and work out your own issues. I don't care if his culture doesn't believe in it. Whe are not living in the 1600's. Also, don't try and make a "family" by getting pregnant. I am sorry that you suffered a loss of one, but perhaps something good can come of that experience. Your husband is abusive and if he abuses you, he probably will abuse your pets and your potential child. I don't have ADD but I know alot of people who do and they aren't abused. Stop making excuses for your husband. He is a big boy and responsible for his own behavior. Lying to your family about what is going on is silly. Do you think Nicole Brown Simpson ever thought her husband was going to try and decapitate her???? YOU ARE EXPERIENCING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Yes I said it. I know these aren't things you want to hear to you want to hear oh, it will all be okay. Well thats not the way it happens most times with abusers. They usually get worse and if there is alcohol or drugs involved, well I won't even go there. I wish you a full life of peace, but I don't believe that is going to happen unless you do something about your current state of affairs.

I know this is years later but I am sitting in my room crying while my husband is outside watching T.V.. Your story is an exact ditto copy of mine. Except for the fact that I am four months pregnant. Everything you said is exactly the same story as me. I have been married for three years to a guy that was super nice when we first dated who eventually turned out to be the biggest jerk. He is so heartless at times that i ask myself why am i putting up with this...the answer is fear. I don't know what to do...I know there are always two sides to a story but I don't think anyone deserves this...or perhaps I do...here is my situation...I got married and found out I had severe diabetes, I moved to canada where I didn't have health insurance since I wasn't working to pay off my meds. So my husband offered to take care of my medical expenses which I thought was really sweet of him...and now when we fight he brings that up and asks me to pay him back. He always calls me names..and I am walking on eggshells all the time. I sit there are take it most of time until he starts cursing. Then I lose it and tell him off. Sure I have hit him playfully which he said " IF you hit me I will hit you 10 times harder and that's what he does.....Because of my medical condition and family problems I wasn't able to graduate from uni. before marriage so I decided to go on with it after marriage...I took out several loans to pay myself though school and grad school and till this day he says that my degree is worthless if I can't earn money for it. He is so nit picky about every penny that I spend and I am held accountable for money that is charged on his card since I do not have a credit card in canada. I always pay him back but for some reason I always get yelled at...My story is really long and I am not sure who will read it but it;s the exact same scenario as you.

And like the first poster, I have to ask WHY are you staying??

I am afraid to leave this marriage...maybe it's all in my head. with the baby on the way things are going to get complicated. Some of my friends always say who knows if the next guy you will marry will abuse you worse. plus I come from a background that places a stigma on divorced ladies. I am afraid of the unknown too afraid to see what might come my way. I am not strong but a weak person who is not financially stable. he tells me once the child is born he knows he can take it away from me since he earns triple than i do.

Below is from the link I've provided. I highly recommend visiting the site. It taught me much about an ex-boyfriend who was emotionally abusive.

Abuse 101

(NOTE: The following are excerpts and notes from Tigress Luv's new book, Toxic Love)

Do you ever feel like you are losing control; imagining things; having severe mental distortions of reality; or are completely, totally out of your mind? Do you often swing from elated feelings of happiness to severe feelings of deep depression? Are you sometimes struggling to smile? Do you think about your partner and your relationship all the time? Do you rehash moments with him and try to figure out what really happened, and if your perceptions of the situation were real or just in your mind? If you answered yes to these questions then you are with a toxic man.

Toxic Men slowly suck our happiness and our loving, nurturing spirit out of us. We become confused, insecure, depressed zombies...yet our Toxic Men walk around as if nothing has happened, and not seeming to notice our depression and unhappiness at all.

A Toxic Man is a combination of a narcissistic man, a commitmentphobic man, a codependent man, a histrionic man, a man with split personality disorder, a control freak, martyr, and an abuser, yet doesn't really precisely belong to any one of these groups exactly. He is the TOXIC MAN!

The Many Faces of Toxic Men (Abusers)

The "Demand" Man

Feels entitled, ask for more than he gives back. Feels like you "owe" him. Exaggerates and overvalues his own contributions. Keeps a "mental list" of everything he's ever done and wants constant payback for them. Thinks he is owed tremendous gratitude for meeting the ordinary responsibilities of every day life (and takes your contribution for granted).

When he is generous and giving to you - it's only to prove to himself , and others, that he is a good person. If you need something he accuses you of being self-centered and he tells everybody how selfish and ungrateful you are, and acts hurt because of all he's done for you. He gets furious if anything is demanded of him and switches it back to being about him.

Mr. Right (Arrogant)

Is an expert at everything. Talks in a condescending voice and acts like you are are an imbecile incapable of taking care of yourself.

Emits an air of superiority!

Any conflict is a clash between right and wrong - intelligence and stupidity - him being right, of course, and you being wrong.

He twists anything you say to make it sound wrong. Everybody is stupid to this person, as he is so certain of his own supreme intelligence. If you argue with him he will take it as a sign of your own ignorance and foolishness.

His partner will end up questioning their own intelligence.

He not only knows all the answers to everything, he tells you that how you run your own life is wrong. He knows ALL your faults. Mr. Right delights in correcting you in front of others (to point out his own intelligence).

He punishes you for having your own mind.

He imposes his beliefs and opinions, caring little about considering yours.

EWW! The Water Torturer! (Killing Me Softly With His Words!)

This man knows how to get under your skin. By remaining calm and level-headed to make you look crazy.

When arguing he will often have a superior or contemptuous grin on his face.

Uses a low, calm, stead voice to impose his psychological superiority over you, and often mimics you, laughs at you, or insults you.

Quiet calm, controlling acts against you. Talks to you as if you were a mental patient and he the doctor in control. Talks down to you as if you were nuts.

Accuses you of being abusive and out of control once he drives you to the brink. Claims you are irrational and acting crazy while he is in complete control and not starting an argument.

This man's tactics are difficult to recognize and identify. When a woman can't make a concrete evaluation and has nothing to label their partner with they can become extremely distraught and deeply scared. If someone hits you, you know it and can relate it to your friends, but when someone tries to drive you nuts, and appears to be rationale and innocent when doing it, you can't describe it to your friends and end up feeling like maybe you are 'nuts'. You most likely aren't even aware of it, it being so subtle and appearing so sane. You can't even describe something that's going on when you don't even know it is.

If you confront the Water Torturer he acts like he doesn't know what you are talking about. To friends and even your children, it looks like he is so laid-back and calm (low key) and that you blow up over nothing.

He is oppressive and stifling. Cynical and cocky.

Makes you feel like you are crazy and out of control. You get 'set off' by anything and everything. Makes you look like you are the one with the problem and everybody else believes this, too.

The Prison Guard

Runs every aspect of your life, from criticising everything you do, to telling you where you can and can't go. Dictating who you friends will be, how to cook and clean, listens to your phone calls, reads your emails, ask people (even enlist the children) to spy on you when he is gone, sets curfews, fathers you, and removes your freedom.

Overly jealous, accuses you of cheating, questions even who you casually look at. Dislikes women, irrationally possessive and policing. It's about possession, not fidelity, and thus so more than likely the Prison Guard is the one having an affair himself.

CAPTIVITY!

Watches you like a hawk. Denies you strength and independence.

It is difficult to get away from The Prison Guard as he monitors your activities to the max - even quitting his job, etc. He isolates you from friends and family. Removes your finances. Ruins your car. Holds you virtually as a prisoner.

Mr. Sensitive

Is overly in touch with his emotions and feels sorry for himself, blaming you for hurting him. He thinks he is a gift because, unlike most men, he is in touch with his feelings.

The Player

Comes on strong, good in bed, interest starts waning, he stares - ogles - at other women, you hear rumors.

You tend to get angry at the 'other woman' rather than The Player himself.

He makes you feel like you are the 'special one', and that other women are jealous of you, or angry at him because he turned down their advances, or because he dropped her. He makes all his past or 'other women' sound abusive, deranged, needy, or etc.

You can never really be sure of his faithfulness. He tries to make you jealous, then accuses you of being untrusting and insecure. You start to feel that every woman is a threat to you, your best friend, your sister, even your mother!

You tend to keep these other women away from you so as not to expose them to him.

You are put on a shelf, ignored, forgotten, and put away until he is ready for you again.

Ironically, he may get angry with you if you catch him cheating, even though he is the one that should have deserved the anger.

He sees all women as playthings or toys, rather than take them seriously. Most likely his mother "worked" for him and his father, rather than she was an equal partner.

He may believe that women are strictly sexual objects and that it is totally unfair to expect him to not be tempted by them.

(Should one avoid the 'charming' man who gets defensive if you question his actions that affect you?

Inability to accept disagreement and criticism is a bad sign. Not every charmer is an abuser - but many abusers are "pathological charmers".)

Rambo (Bully)

Thinks he is the toughest guy in the world. Believes women need protecting and all females are inferior to men. Believes women are there as subservient slaves to wait on their men. Treats women as if they were 'things', possessions, trophies, harem. Thinks that men need to keep women in line.

The Victim (Poor Me!)

Life has treated him unfair. His exes were all terrible to him, and even try to keep him from his kids. He has been the sad victim of women, the legal system, etc. His exes are all "wicked", evil witches.

Victims not only exhibit anger with their exes, but also DISRESPECT and CONTEMPT. Warning signs should be heeded when a man blames his exes for the entire demise of their relationship. Even if he admits to some wrong-doing on his part ("I cheated on her, but...") he blames it on her saying her 'evil' ways drove him to do it. She is always the reason why he did something 'wrong'. He takes no responsibility for any bad in his relationships! Most victims will claim that their exes were abusive, when in reality he was the abusive one. Most victims claim that their exes were controlling or wanted to wear the pants and be in power. Spoiled , demanding princesses.

Be warned, this is how he will describe you, should your relationship reach an end!

He is all about him, poor poor him, and he wraps himself up in self-pity, licking his imagined wounds, and tries to get other family, friends, and even the kids, to feel sorry for him. He claims no one understands him, and he may appear to assume the blame, but, in reality, he feels totally blameless. He can easily convince others that you are cruel, controlling, abusive, mean, angry, etc., and he is so wonderful and wounded.

He can mirror troubles and issues, easily reversing them to be the issues belonging to that of his partner. Whatever you see wrong in him, is the exact thing he 'claims' is wrong with you! "No, you're the one who..."

Victims are prone to depression, which is the same as getting caught up in self-pity - the 'poor-me' mode. Victims feel so victimized at times that they become insomniac, anxiety ridden, antisocial, and even suicidal. They do not see reality, but distort it to be cruel. Victims become bitter, resentful, and vengeful.

Abusive victims often assume the mantle of victimhood and martyrhood. Acting the eternal victim allows them to garner sympathy and support, abuse their victims by proxy, and still feel morally superior.

The Narcissistic Abuser

Quite highly distorted self-image. They are unable to accept the fact that they might have flaws or faults, and therefore are unable to imagine how other perceive them. In public Narcissistic men are charming and confident. In private they are nasty and dismissive. Clues to the presence of this include:

your partner's self-centeredness is severe, and it carries over into situations that don't involve you
he seems to relate everything back to himself
he is outraged whenever anyone criticizes him and is incapable of considering that he could ever be anything other than kind and generous
he becomes hypervigilant to any 'negative' words that others might use
Nothing is ever his fault. He blames something or someone for anything that goes wrong. As time goes by, the target of his blame increasingly becomes you. This style of man also tends to make promises that he doesn't keep, coming up with excuses for disappointing you or behaving irresponsibly and perhaps taking serious economic advantage of you in the process.

He is self-centered, and feels he does a lot more than he actually does. He takes more than his share of the conversation, turning every subject back around to him. He listens poorly when you speak, and chronically shifts the topic of conversation back to himself. Self-centeredness is a personality characteristic that is highly resistant to change, as it has deep roots in either profound entitlement (in abusers) or severe early emotional injuries (in non-abusers), or both (in narcissistic abusers).

He treats you like gold when anyone is watching, is angry with you and bitter and spiteful when no one else is around to see.

Tries to turn you against your family, friends, and even your children, especially if the children are from a previous relationship and they're not his children.

Narcissistic men are highly resistant to change, as their inflated ego makes it difficult for them to see their real selves.

Narcissists are addicted to narcissistic supply (attention, admiration, adulation, being feared, etc.). They don't take well to criticism and disagreement. They are easily slighted and develop narcissistic injuries. The narcissism reacts with narcissistic rage, hatred, aggression, or violence to an infringement of what he perceives to be his entitlement. Any insinuation; hint; intimation; or direct declaration that the narcissism is not special at all, that he is average; common; wrong; imperfect; or not even sufficiently idiosyncratic to warrant a fleeting interest will inflame the narcissism.

Narcissist often become abusive when faced with insults or derogatory remarks about their person. In most people abuse is bred by fear fear of being mocked or betrayed, emotional insecurity, anxiety, panic, and apprehension - but in the NPD man, abuse is triggered by the very thought of facing the fact that they are imperfect. This fear can be exaggerated when they are with someone who knows them well, and can logically point out their imperfections in a realistic and truthful way. It is a last ditch effort to maintain their delusions of grandeur that the NPD man may become physically abusive toward any individual who may provoke them by relating personal insults against their character based on facts. The NPD man will often choose to not associate with anyone who has uncovered or exposed the NPD's true 'less-than-perfect' self.

My sister lives in a world similar to yours-lost2244. She was with an abusive man for years and years, had his baby, and then he left her. She cried and cried while she was with him. He hit her, called her names, disappeared for weeks, cheated on her, etc. and now that he's gone she cries and cries. she loves him no matter what he does to her, or what he would have done to her child. She was also afraid to leave him. But more then being afraid to leave him i think she really loved him. it was an oddity to me, but that's what it was. and the truth is, if he was to come back, she would take him back.

Having been through these abusive relationships with my sister i know its not easy for you. I know you talk it to death trying to find a solution-only to find yourself more confused and conflicted at the end of the day-feeling a little more hollow. The truth is you wont leave. You'll talk around and around your pain until you've emotionally exhausted yourself out of any action you might have taken. Its an addiction for you. I'm sure you lash out at him too, then feel guilty, like you are just like him, and crawl back in your corner.

I stick by my sister through all of this. I cant change her. If she wants to suffer the abuse and is perhaps mentally incapable of extraditing herself from it, then i will love her, listen to her, and help her when she asks. The situation changed when she had a baby. I will do anything to protect that baby, even if it means alienating my sister. Your situation is unfortunate and i am sorry for your pain. I only hope there is someone that will watch out and protect your baby. It is horrible to know an innocent life will enter this same abusive cycle.

Pretty amazing syndrome. Once had a friend in social work; women's shelters; very intelligent, caring person; really wonderful upbeat lady; it was the focus of her education and her life; she wanted to make a difference. After a little less than a year, she got out of it and changed professions. 2/3 of the time, the wrecked woman would come to them and they'd provide all the services and counseling and support and assistance required -- and then the woman would return her abuser. And a week or two later, they'd be back and repeat the process. Revolving door. She felt that she was wasting her time and her emotions.

I've never understood. I never will. I don't know what to do with people who steadfastly refuse to help themselves. All the assistance and support in the world goes for nothing with people like that.

I would get out before you are so brain washed you think it's all your fault and that you deserve the abuse. I was such a shy timid girl/woman if a man even frowned at me I would have backed off. If it was repeated he would have been history. As I have aged I knew I would live in a one room apartment before I put up with anything except kindness. My husband knew it to, when I turned and walked away when he was in his a bad mood, he came after me and apologized,. LOL

I've studied emotional abuse and it really is becomes a pyschological problem for the so called battered woman. It is not as easy to leave as you may think. It's not just the uneducated or simple minded women, but often very intelligent normal seeming woman that go through this. The abuser convinces the woman (or man in reverse cases) that they are no good and can't do anything with out them. It becomes a control issue on top of making someone insecure to the point that they don't think they deserve better. You are dealing with both a dependency issue, and a self esteem problem that is under the control of the abuser. It's very hard to break a cycle like that.

The one good thing about this lastest poster is that she realizes it is happening and sees it as abuse. That helps tremendously. Many will go to shelters, etc still thinking parts of it is their fault... if only they had done something differently, etc. and they have been convinced (brainwashed by the husband) that they still need their husband. Knowing/realizing you are not the problem, is really a big break through. Now comes the 'being able to make it on your own part". I am sure this abuser has convinced her that she will not be able to make ends meet, etc.. May have even gone so far as to make sure she would be in a very needy financial situation. Hopefully, this poster has outlets and options (you always have options) that she can get herself and her baby away from the abuser.

Still, acknowledgement of the abuse and reading up on it can help explain the feeling an abused victim may be feeling and they can learn to understand that they are not rational thoughts and feelings, but are rathered being abused to feel the way they are feeling.

If someone everyday implied weren't good enough or couldn't do anything right... if they rolled their eyes at your clothes choices, prentended they had to choke down the dinner you made, laughed when you were trying to say something serious, jokingly asked why you can't look as the sexy woman on tv, got mad at you for not getting the stains off their shirt, shook their head at your parenting tactics, etc., etc.. you too after a while would begin to feel unworthy. It's a "constant" subtle beating up of the soul and spirit. It is often the most subtle abuse and is often written off as a joke -- you just don't have a good sense of humor -- (insult on top of injury). This subtle abuse can hurt women the most because they don't realize it is going on... But it really gets in deep and becomes a part of them and who they think they are.

I suggest reading books by Patricia Evans or anything out there on emotional or verbal abuse. If you do counseling, do it by yourself or separately. Entering into counseling with an abuser and a counselor who is not on top of things will usually only make things worse. Often, they'll have you surrendering more control which is what you don't want to do with an abuser. Plus, abusers are often known to use sessions to abuse the victims... and again, it takes a very well trained counselor to even know it's going on. An abuser genrally will be able to twist stories and situations around to make the victim sound like the bad guy. And, here again, he will have you feeling even more insecure about yourself. So be careful. Good luck.

The OP said, "Is this emotional abuse?" Yes, and it appears there has been verbal abuse and now some physical abuse.

So, she asks for advice. I think that one of the first steps in recovery is being open to what others are saying, even if you don't agree.

Most people on these boards try to be helpful and some take a lot of time to write a thoughtful analysis.

I know of a woman who sought counselling after a divorce and advice from some of her friends. Her friends and the counselors told her what she needed to hear, not what she wanted to hear. Sometimes they were critical. Her response was to change counselors four times and in the end she lost most of her friends.

I hope that OP will find a good counselor, and that she will be open to taking the steps she needs to make her life more positive in the long run.

Abusive relationships don't usually start out abusive, and as Carla points out, often, the abuse is subtle -- especially in the beginning.
My first husband was abusive - pyschologically at first, and later, verbally. I wish he had simply hit me. That, at least, I would have recognized immediately and saved myself a lot of grief.

The early abuse was often just a look - dismissive, condescending, or contemptuous. Or making an 'us' decision that completely ignored my feelings and stated wishes, or 'forgetting' something that was important to me but not to him. Then later, a joke or small dig followed by a "Can't you take a joke?!" complaint or a "I can't believe how much you're over-reacting!" Then strong criticism for mild imperfections, and faint and infrequent praise for notable accomplishments. It's really insidious.

And I'm sorry, but the whole "None of it is your fault!" line just doesn't ring true to an abuse victim.
They simply can't believe that. Too much of what has happened to them has been laid at their own doorsteps for too long.
And for all but the most irrational abusers, there is almost always a grain of truth to their complaints. She did forget to tell the clerk at the dry cleaners to use *heavy* starch, or best case, she forget to *check* that his shirts had been starched 'heavy' vrs. 'light' -- so there's some validity to his complaint. She knows how important heavy starch is to him, and for her to 'forget' shows she's careless, stupid, not paying attention to him, doesn't deserve him, trying to make him mad...
So anyone who says "None of it is your fault!" simply must be wrong... (And the abuser can easily show why.)

Frankly, I'd drop that entire line from the recovery program.
I'd replace it with "So what, exactly, did you do?" followed by "And what do you think is the appropriate response for someone who did that?" Gradually moving into "Does he ever make any mistakes?" and Is he as critical of his own mistakes as he is of yours?"

You dont have to have to have a psych. term to set standards on the quality of your relationship. If you feel you are being neglected, undervalued or abused then you are. You make those standards and hold him to them because you deserve to be treated well. All humans do.

Your home and family is supposed to be a sanctuary away from the pit vipers, honey. How can you ever be happy or at ease when your own husband (with is suppose to love and support you) is the biggest viper of them all? There are plenty of people in the world who wouldnt piss on you to put a fire out. Your family is supposed to have your back, especially your spouse.

As far as trying to get pregnant.dont. If hes this critical and impatient with you what makes you think hell be a nurturing and patient father? Also, are you REALLY going to want to deal with this man for the rest of your life if you ever get the courage to leave him? If you have a child with him you will be. I know what its like to want a baby horribly. It took me ten years to get pregnant. In retrospect it was a good thing because my ex husband and I wound up divorced. Of course, you couldnt of told me that at the time, I just wanted a baby.

Just hang in there. I dont believe anyone deserves to be berated all the time. Think really hard about your self worth. You are cheating yourself with staying with a man who treats you even mediocre no less with a man who is out and out abusive.

According to the OP's first post, the complaints and criticism started before the marriage when they first moved in together. It didn't start with the infertility problems (which are stressful for any couple). It was there all along and it will still be there if they bring a child into this mess.

I understand those who are convinced over time to blame themselves. I understand how someone could think they are at fault at least part of the time. But I don't understand those who say they know they should leave but don't.

Why do these women always try to "fix" a mess like this by bringing an innocent baby into the situation?

Maybe that gives them an ironclad excuse: "Now I can't face up and take charge of my life and leave him because of the kids."

As for counselors - well, you have to use your common sense. Not all of them are wise or even really qualified. I personally know two school counselors who are complete nut jobs. You have to use common sense and not just turn your life over to them because they got a degree on the internet or something. My best friend was going through a really bad time in her life: she had cancer, her husband left her, she lost her job and health insurance and her mom was dying. Know what the counselor's wisdom was? Go home and take a nice long bubblebath. I'm not saying I don't believe in seeking counseling, sometimes it helps a great deal. But you have to find a good one.

I havnt read many of the posts at all.but doodleboo struck out,everything she said is spot on,

Kathryn

I've been reading these posts and you haven't replied to any for a long time now. What ended up happening with you and your husband. Are you ok? I'd love to hear from you. Can you get in touch with me at the e-mail address that I have provided?

It is really sad to hear about the emotional and verbal abuse occuring in the above-mentioned marriages. I am too a very intelligent woman, educated with a great job. I made a choice and married what I would call a very insecure man. A man that I found out later down the line, solicited prostitutes. We seperated and he claimed things would be better the second time around, but trust me nothing has changed. Sometimes he makes me so very angry, I feel like I want to hit him with a frying pan right in his mouth. I am sooo tired of him, but right now, I have a plan to get myself together and then i will leave him. I am a christian, and I believe that God does not ordain abusive marriages. If you are in an abusive marriage, get out, take care of yourself and know that once you are healthy, people will see that and will not be able to take advantage of you.

I`ve been married for 16yrs. it has been up and down all 16yrs. He always have been controlling, I had a 2yr. when we met and he wouldn`t even let her sit by me. When we got married he didn`t want my mom to help me get dressed. When I had our son he didn`t want her in the room, which I understand that one, everything is my fault. The last 3 yrs have been hell, I cheated on him 3yrs. ago and I crushed him he cried and cried he would get sick, that`s when the worst all started. He had an affair with a girl from our gym for 4 months. After that we got past it and renewed our vows then about 2 months later he started talking to another girl, then that stop. Well Aug. of 2008 he left me for a younger woman saying he was in love with her that she treats him like he always wanted me to treat him that he feels she really loves him. Yes I admit I wasn`t the perfect wife and somethings he says that I didn`t or did do are true about I don`t deserve this do I? He and the girlfriend got a place together in Feb. 09 he said he wants to come on and never does, well he does for 2 nights then goes back to her, he has done this twice now. Last weekend I told him I was moving on and I have a date, he told me not to go and if I did he will never come home, well I didn`t go and he came home and it`s been 3 nights now and he is still here, but when will he leave again, what am I dealing with here? Should I just let go and move on? I`m ready to if he won`t change, I mean he is still taking to the girlfriend. PLEASE HELP.

>> Should I just let go and move on?

Yes. Why in the world would you want him? He's a controlling bully. What example is this for your children to see you allowing yourself to be treated this way?

Move on.

Pity the kids in this deal. Two messed up parents.

So, you knew he was this way BEFORE you got married and you married him anyway?! Lord help the children in this situation. They surely will need help if you stay. NancyLouise

Do you want to be married to an abusive, cheating bully?
If so, then stay.
Do you want your children to learn they should accept absolutely anything from the people they love?
If so, then stay.
Do you want to teach your children that you deserve to crawl on the floor trying to please a man who will never respect you?
To teach them that you don't deserve respect or even love?
If so, then stay.
Do you want to minimize your chances of ever finding happiness with a kind and committed partner?
If so, then stay.

But if that's NOT the life you want, then stop accepting it!
Kick the bum OUT!

Wow - what a thread. My heart goes out to the abused women who've posted here. I sincerely hope they have got some real help since they posted.

So many of you have posted spot-on messages which hit the nail right on the head, I lost track of all the names.

The one thing I wanted to add is this: I have known women like this. I have learned from them that false guilt -- feeling guilty for things they did not cause or perpetuate -- is very often the real problem.

Women who accept false guilt (always without even realizing it) are easy prey for a guy who projects his own problems and guilt onto them. Only when the women I know could see and recognize that the guilt was false could they give themselves permission to take the needed steps to end the abuse.

Again, I sure hope these women, and all others like them, get real help.

My son (A) has been married for five years. His brother's (B) wife's family threw them a wonderful rehearsal dinner five years ago and have been very kind to them; however, (A's) wife wants nothing to do with (B's) family now and it is hurtful to me as both of their mother as the B and wife have children that A doesn't get to see. New bride makes it impossible for family to be together. Please advise.