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Useing an escort service & escorts

Posted by chazlie (My Page) on
Mon, Aug 31, 09 at 12:37

In another fourm on this site there is a long thread about escorts and the use of their services.

http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/marriage/msg022129589851.html?138

It has been suggested that I start my own thread so that's exactally what I am doing.

I've a good relationship with my wife and a good sex life with her. However I also enjoy a separate alternate lifestyle with escorts. Over the past 7 years I've been seeing ladies that provide services. I've been in some realy excellent, enjoyable company of some great people. .


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

and? so?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

How does your wife deal with issues of STDs? Is she also polyamorous? Do you keep your behavior secret from her? Or is it a don't ask don't tell? It works for you, obviously. Does it work for her? Is she healthy?


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hgf

I meant to also ask, are you wealthy?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Well,
I am healthy because I do get examined by my swinger friendly doctor every quarter of the year. I am not wealthy but I do make a good living for myself and my family. I always know where my priorities are, Family first then my friends and then my hobby.

there is a variety of opinions here. From what I have read most of the postings are from women. Some of you ladies have an open mind and some of you just don't.
Some consider masterbateing cheating, or watching porn or even haveing a sexy thought about another person cheating on your spouse. I don't think any of these things are cheating. Only intercorse with another without permission is actually cheating. So, yes intercorse wtih a escort can be considered cheating.
Keeping an open mind to new ideas and experiences even in the bedroom can take a person to new levels of experience never imagined.
yes I am a guy, and yes I am a married guy, for more than 20 years hapily married actually. Even more I am a married older guy who has, called even seen an escort or two.
No, I have not talked to my wife about it and no I have not gotten any STD's. What I have gotten is a great time and a satisfying experience from my encounters over the past 7 years.
I am extremely happy with my wife, and marriage of 20 years. To be honest with you, I am copelled to experience others. There are things that my wife can't or won't do. I don't what to die without experiencing them.
do think that the porn industry is supported by single guys in their 20's? how about the strip club down the road? don't forget about all the internet porn which has single handedly improved internet and video streaming technology because the money is there to support it.
There is something to what everyone is saying but what no one has said is keep an open mind and men will seek out what pleasures them, that is why it is called the world's oldest profession..

Ok, so to put in all into perspective, you all have preconceived perceptions as to what men, escorts and maybe even what wives do in the bedroom. I can only speak for myself and my own situation, and what I know from talking to other guys in the hobby.
Some of you may ask, what can't your wife do that these other women can?
For a couple of reasons, Because she isn't comfortable putting her mouth in places, no matter how clean they are. She is not really that interested in having sex and so she isn't good at doing anything imaginative in the bedroom. I have tried to spice up our love life with no success. I have found that I have a over active sex drive, when I dont get the opportunity for 5 or 6 weeks there is frustrating, even irritating when I try to talk about it and all I get is apologies.

Most escorts are extremely clean and mindful of STD's after all its their business if they are not clean no repeat customers. and personally, I have walked out before doing anything with an escort no foul, it was just not right and I left. If it doesn't feel right, smell right or taste right, leave.
The women I have seen are a little younger and flexible than my wife yes, but always clean and I always ask "have you had a positive test for STD's in the past month?"
Most of the time escorts are beautiful women that A)love sex a lot and are good at it B) need money quickly and don't have another method to get it.
However, yes you are right way you say it is partly because I crave the variety, and the different experiences that are out there. Also that I don't want or need the extra baggage of having an affair. I don't mean to be crass but this way for a few hundred bucks I can feed my addiction to sex and not have the relationship that can hurt everyone so much.
as far as writing about it, no one knows who I and I know my wife wont see this. I don't talk about it at all and I dont write much about it so why not.
I really have to disagree, I AM HAPPY WITH MY MARRIAGE or I would not stay in it. Sex is one big area that I am not satisfied with in it.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I don't think anyone would argue that you are happy with your marriage. Who wouldn't be?

Is your wife happy?


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;aslkd

Woops, never mind. As said before, to each his own.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

So what? Why are you posting this? If you're happy, good for you.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

So...how does this work? I mean just entering a crowded room at a social gathering, I wouldn't see one female in 100 I'd be interested in "that way" even if I knew I could have her right now, no obligation, for some price. Too old; too young; too heavy; too skinny; laughs like a horse; smells bad; stupid hair; or countless other reasons.

Curious about how your selection process might work. If you're paying, surely you must be able to pick and choose....but how? Do you go to some prospect warehouse and get one off the shelf, so to speak....or do you have to accept/reject one at a time?


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RE: Using an escort service & escorts

When I suggested that you start your own thread, I meant on an appropriate forum. This thread is not about marriage.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Look, folks. We need to just let it go. Chazlie's not at all interested in whether his wife is happy with him, their marriage, or anything. He's not interested in hearing that his "dates" don't really care for him, don't really like sex (Chaz, you are PAYING them to pretend that they like it), nor is he interested in calling a hooker a hooker. Somehow calling them escorts makes him feel as though he's in a higher class, perhaps.

He's interested in telling us that, because we don't agree with his choice of hobby, we don't have open minds. He's interested in telling us how we're wrong based upon his amoral, cheating, and slimy activities. He's interested in believing that the hookers are being truthful when they answer his question of whether they've tested positive for an STD (uh, Chazlie, do you realize that if they said yes they'd lose their buck for the night?).

Chazlie is just a drone with no morals who is trying to justify his own actions. Frankly, he's become a real bore that persists in trying to make a case for himself. What a sad, miserable little man.

Don't feed the drone - let him go off and wag his little buddy somewhere else.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"...start your own thread, I meant on an appropriate forum."

Seems appropriate to me....married guy explaining/justifying sex on the side. Don't see any forums at the site I would regard as any more appropriate. Let 'er buck.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

asolo, I disagree.

suzieque, I could not agree more.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

plenty of people have rewarding sex lives without hiring hookers, so if he has to pay to have sex it is not called "open minded" but called "being desperate". others get good sex without paying for it. :)


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Perhaps we can at least agree, then, that "good sex" is a reasonable pursuit?

The number of people, married or not, that do NOT have "rewarding sex lives" is vast. Among them, I have no doubt there is some "desperation". And I have little doubt the issue is dealt with in many different ways, most unspoken.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

most certainly plenty of people do not get sex at all and if they choose to pay for it, then it is their choice. But if they tell their spouse they are going to the gym but in reality they are going to pay hookers, then I don't think it is called "open minded".

I would consider "open minded" to file for divorce if marriage is bad or come clean to your wife in regards to your spare time activities. That's open minded.

It doesn't matter what he is pursuing, sex or something else, what is matter that his wife goes to bed with him not knowing where he and his body parts were an hour ago, she and her health are endangered.

so I do not feel much sympathy for his "open mind" or "desperation" or "pursuit of good sex".


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asolo

"Perhaps we can at least agree, then, that "good sex" is a reasonable pursuit?"

define "good". by OP's standard it is having multiple partners at the same time and no emotional attachment. then why not marry someone who likes the same, have open marriage, or stay single.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

It's yours to define....I was quoting you.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

This is a very depressing thread.

We were all born as sexual beings. Things happen along the way that block our ability to tune into our natural ability to respond and feel sexually. For a woman to be interested in sex once every 6 weeks is a red flag - not solved, but exacerbated by a husband's infidelity. I guarantee you that such women are angry and depressed, and you're kidding yourself if on some level she is not aware of the infidelity. Nothing will KILL your sex life like repressed anger.

It's depressing to read from a handful of men who support the idea of prostitution to meet their own needs - my point is, there are most likely many men who are faithful, and many women who are sexually in tune, and many good healthy relationships out there in spite of the stuff we read about here. God bless my children with good health, strong minds and strong partners in life - and may we all find our way and leave as small a wake as possible behind us.


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RE: Using an escort service & escorts

finedreams and amyfiddler -- excellent points, and well-stated. IMHO, voices of reason in this thread.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Personally, I can't imagine conducting myself as OP has and attempts to justify. On the other hand, I have had personal experience -- and am aware of quite a number of others who have had personal experience -- with sexually intolerable marriages. I didn't stay in mine. The others I am aware of didn't stay in theirs. That's the best way to handle such dissatisfaction if it is, indeed, intolerable, I think.

Some people can work it out between themselves and some can't. Obviously it's a large and common circumstance today as it has been throughout history. Certainly some of the most famous and most admired of men have been marital infidels. Many, if not most, have maintained otherwise-satisfactory marriages and families while they continued -- as OP says he is doing. (They all had money, too. Consider our presidents, for example.)

I don't find it hard to understand/consider non-divorce ways of dealing with sexual intolerance/disatisfaction. And I don't see anything inappropriate in OP's bringing it forward if he wants to. I don't approve of it and can't imagine it for myself. But I do understand it. In any event, I have no objection to reading OP's views about it and those of his opponents.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I agree with you Asolo. How about that. I also imagine that our presidents wives found justifications for tolerating the affairs - (how do you walk away from first lady status? Here's a clue, You Don't.)... but I would never bet my right shoe on their peace of mind or happiness.

I heard a sad joke once. "You've been married 25 years. How do you do it?" Him: "Porn" Her: Zoloft.

Is this what it comes down to? Justification for destructive behavior and drugs to drown the anger and resentment now presenting as depression? Please tell me there's someone out there who has successfully worked through the issues that drive others to whores and drugs and sexual abstainance, because today is looking pretty bleak.

It's far too simple to say, she won't menage a trois, I've GOT to get that somewhere else. Where is the compassion in that for the spouse???? On what planet is that an acceptable solution- for him to walk around with a stupid grin on his arrested developmental face, and for her to pretend all is well and hang ornaments on the tree and sent out stupid christmas brag letters as if we all don't know that your castle is crumbling....

Someone bring on the sun, it's getting chilly.


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asd

PS. Address the REAL issues in your marriage, and none of this will even be a problem. Sex (or lack of) is ALWAYS symptomatic.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"...destructive behavior and drugs to drown the anger and resentment now presenting as depression? "

OP has not described anything "destructive" in his posts. He has not described drugs or depression either. He has described a circumstance that he has chosen to handle his own way. It appears we all disagree with his infidelity and deception but there's been no mention of these other things. I see no need to heap additional suppositions onto the topic as presented.

And he has addressed the "real" issue in his marriage -- as he sees it. He likes everything except their sexual differences. Again, speaking from experience -- and also considerable study at the time -- sexual incompatibilities can, indeed, be tough nuts to crack. There are MANY people who simply are not interested in sex at all. There are MANY others who are repulsed by consideration of particular practices. I confess to being one of those. I'll bet many/most of you are, too. For me, those practices would be like being compelled to eat liver -- which I personally detest. There's absolutely no way I'm going to be coaxed, cajoled, or otherwise influenced to partake -- even if I know I am denying incredible pleasure to my partner because I won't. Is that selfish and unreasonable? I don't think so. It's simply a characteristic of my personal makeup. However, that particular characteristic means that we will NEVER be able to dine on liver together. (And I mean not ever. I can't even be in the same room with the stuff!) Some sexual practices are like that for many (most?) people. Sometimes these are NOT issues that can be worked through. Sometimes mutuality is unreasonable to expect. It seems to me this is what the OP has described.

If that's the only issue, is it wrong to approach it as the OP has described? Personally, I think so. However, he's described a different view of it which has not caused any problems so far. And he's also described an otherwise happy marriage.

If he had described keeping a mistress instead of paying "escorts", would our opinions be the same? Frankly I don't know anything about "escorsts" or mistresses, so I can't say. I do know quite a bit about sexual incompatibility between spouses, however, and that's why I'm interested in the views being expressed.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I cannot imagine a scenario as presented where the wife is happy. Three things I know: She isn't sexually drawn to her husband but once every six weeks. And two, dishonesty exists in the relationship. I smell lack of intimacy - people tend to be consistent across the board. Third, he hasn't shared with us how perfectly happy she is. Does he care?

I will be willing to concede with the idea that she doesn't have any idea how miserable she is. If that's good enough for you, then it is what it is.

Your definition of destructive differs from mine, as well. To put one's own health and that of one's wife, and the well being of the family in jeopardy so that you and some other guy can stick it to one girl at the same time so that you don't die without experiencing it - I just threw up in my own mouth.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Interesting responses, much better than the previous thread. I am posting this as an experiment to see the reaction that society has to this taboo subject and behavior. Which to few is completely normal to peruse an active sex life.
I made this decision years ago, with the choice of doing nothing, having an affair, or spending little time and money persuading an active sex life. I chose the latter.
My wife is happy with our life together, both mentally and physically.
I would pursue an open marriage, however this is not going to happen. I have tested this theory and know the outcome. I didn't discover my interest in the subject until a few years ago. With this one aspect of the marriage is where the partnership fails, in all other areas it is a good partnership.
Asolo - I am impressed with your willingness to share your views from both sides. you seem to have an open mind, even to topics you don't agree with.
If I did get a girlfriend, then there would be other emotions involved. So in this respect I keep it purely professional. This concept also maybe hard to understand, since sex and intimacy are so closely intertwined for most. Think of your local strip club, the girls that work there may have boyfriends, kids and families but strip in the evenings for strangers, maybe even date some before or after work. This is business nothing more.


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I imagine your wife would agree with your last sentence, because she's as enlightened as you are?

Then there's that thing about "if you knew everything about me, would you love me still?"

The definition of intimacy as I see it is, I show you who I am, you show me who you are, and we accept each other in our triumphs and in our mighty failures. Without this, intimacy is compromised. But, as long as you are happy, what difference does it make?
I suppose we each have to find our way towards this thing we call happiness, and some are constrained by these annoying little things we call values - some don't share them, and this opens up worlds of possibilities. I don't value muscles, so I'm not constrained by the time it takes to work out. I value family, so I'm constrained in my inability to hit the road with my band. You dont' value intimacy at least the way I defined it - you do value peace and harmony and adventurous sex.

Our values and lack of such will always define who we become. Composition of what we value starts at home, when we are young - a reminder to us all, no?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Correction....I am NOT "open minded" about it. Remember, I bailed out of my situations so I think the behavior answers to that. However, if I was twenty years in as you are (mine were only a couple of years) and everything was hunky dory except my wife turned off her sexual switch, I'm not sure I can say what I would do, except the idea of paying for it just doesn't sit well with me.

On the other hand, mistresses and/or other outside relationships are expensive, too, so the money's going out regardless. Therefore, I think the focus has to be on infidelity, not money. Among your opponents, here, the "paying-for-it" part seems to be secondary. Could be wrong.

Do you have kids, houses, joint accounts, etc., as "typical" married folks do after 20 years? What would be the consequences if your secret got out? Are your sexual interests increasing in variety and desire or more-or-less stable? Do you just want more frequency or is variety the attraction? May be missing your point.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Incidentally, while I'm rambling on, why would it matter if it were paid for or not, escort hooker or girlfriend, to the point of this discussion? When you emotionally abandon your wife with whom there is a socially understood expectation of faithfulness, what does it matter the nature of the relationship? It's the secrecy, the betrayal that matters. So she doesn't know about it (theoretically, lol) - does that change the nature of what you are and what your relationship lacks? I think not.

It's selfish. It's selfish of wives to shut down sexually as opposed to addressing what the real problem is and without pursuing a closer relationship. It's selfish to say "you won't give it so I'll take it somewhere else and just not tell you so that I dont' have to give up all my perks." I believe very strongly that even if your wife gave you everything, you would still be a taker. Your behavior is not her fault, it is your deal. Justify it all day long, it's just plain selfishness. I bet you are going to yell, "but what about her, she's selfish too." Granted. Separate conversation. When you turn it around, you lose on an opportunity to look at yourself and understand and grow. There will ALWAYS be an excuse for what you do - and you'll never change. This writing I do not for your benefit, else I'd be wasting my efforts. Rather, it is to instill hope in myself and in anyone else following this nonsense that while there is a lot of darkness out there, there must be some hope for light.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I guess what I can't get past is the idea of doing it with somebody I don't know and don't care about. Seems to me that would be some sort of a variation on masturbation. Sex with somebody who wants to be having it with me is a whole different thing than seeking arousal and orgasm for its own sake. The difference in quality/dimension for me is tremendous. No price for that, IMHO. Part of what relationships are made of, I think. The disinterest/inability of my wives to engage on that level was why I left -- and why I've never much enjoyed "casual" sex regardless. The mutual giving thing trumps all for me...takes me where I want to be. Can you buy that in the marketplace? Does pretending cover that ground? Wham/bam; thank you, m'am; bye? My pleasure starts early, lasts late, and lingers on 'til morning. It's a loooong pleasurable interval I can't imagine with a stranger.

Or am I, again, missing your point?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

>> Sex (or lack of) is ALWAYS symptomatic.

Amy, that is such an accurate statement. Chazlie doesn't seem to get it that, in general, women have to be attracted to the person in order to want to have sex with them (although some will do it for twenty bucks; I'd like to see Chazlie convince his hookers to have sex with him for no money!). Apparently Chazlie's wife can only stand intimacy with him every so often. I'm sure she loves you, Chazlie (my grandmother always used to say "there's someone for everyone"), but that doesn't mean you turn her on.

"Forsaking all others" - hmmmmm, typical of marriage vows. Vow = promise. Interesting.

Asolo, you sound like a pretty stand-up guy.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Well, thanks, but I think I'll quickly change your mind. I took those "vows" twice -- and forsook them. Of course I can absolutely justify everything I did and convince you how blameless I was, prince that I am. But that isn't the point.

I no longer know the stats, but somewhere around 1/2 of marriages end in divorce. Lot's of "vows" being broken out there. Seemed like a good idea at the time but something goes wrong. Are those "vows" to condemn us to the rest of our lives in an intolerable situation? Thankfully not! I did break my vows. Yup, did. The alternative would have been to devote the balance of my life to women who abhorred sexual intimacy, notwithstanding their own vows and pretended behavior during courtship. (The tales I could tell you about our wedding nights! We're talking pajamas, here!) In that way I can, perhaps, understand where OP is coming from.

Thankfully, if you want out you can get out. Question for this post is why OP doesn't get out and pursue his fantasy on his own. That seems to be where the criticism comes from.

In any event, I'm saying don't bore us with the "vow" thing. Far too simplistic.


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LOL Asolo. Couldn't have just let her believe what a great guy you are, had to insult her with the jab at the end. Pajamas? Twice? Really? That would make me cranky too.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

quote from Chazlie, "The women I have seen are a little younger and flexible than my wife yes, but always clean and I always ask "have you had a positive test for STD's in the past month?"

And you believe them? Some people will say anything for money. You are risking your life, but that is your choice. Seems as though your wife doesn't have a choice in the matter. How thoughtful of you.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

When I think about the "escorts" that the op frequents and that these people are women, it offends me as a women.

I think that many of us (women) are threatened by it. As it is a form of exploitation. To bring it down to a more personal level might shead light on the reasoning for it being a threat.

When a woman a meets man in the hope of igniting a romantic relationship, there is a desire to attach. The woman is vulnerable to being exploited (used and discarded). Women desire a partner but need to be able to trust the person before they open themselves up to intimacy. The relationship develops over a period of time and if all the elements desired are not present then they can choose to break it off. It is just how we are usually.

Men who fake a women out and then exploit her are vile to most women. (morally reprehensible) Although, the game may often play out that way. The women feels exploited.

An "escort" takes only into consideration the Dollar. She makes it easy for the man to exploit her sexuality. By doing so, she threatens all other women who seek intimacy with men but desire a full relationship which includes, trust, bonding and attachment.

The glib manner in which you define your sexuality and that of women as escorts and the opposite gender is definitely ruffling feathers.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"...insult her with the jab at the end."

Probably shouldn't have said it that way, then, as no insult was intended -- only disagreement. Sorry if I was disagreeable.

The pajama thing -- yes, really.

All of that was decades ago. Since then I've had the pleasure of sharing delightful, mutual intimacy with actual functioning human beings so much of the crankiness has dissipated. According to many of you, it hasn't entirely dissipated. I certainly do carry my "hot-buttons" about deceptive behaviors and hidden agendas to this day and they certainly do pop out in my perception and in my posts. Understand from women-friends that there's plenty of it going on among the men, too. I don't like fraudulent behavior. I don't use people and I don't like being used. Does anyone?

Don't know OP's take on that although he hasn't alleged deception on his wife's part, just a state of affairs. In twenty years many changes can occur. He did say he's only been doing his "hobby" a couple of years so I don't know if he's changed or she has or both. He hasn't explained how it evolved, only that he's become much more interested in sex and she's become less interested.


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Ah, but you misunderstood, asolo. I don't disagree with divorce at all if it is the best alternative and/or if one of the 2 parties has "breached the contract" so to speak. what I meant was that, by staying in the marriage and also employing hookers, Chazlie was not forsaking other women as he'd promised to do. I agree that he should do as you did - end the marriage and then do as he pleases.

Didn't mean to bore you or sound simplistic. I just didn't provide enough words for you to know what I meant.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Suzique's comments are unfounded in facts, at least from a personal perspective. Actually I have the pleasure of calling a few of the escorts I see friends as well. Most of the ladies I see are more honest and trust worthy than many folks I have met in my life. But, yes some of them are not, some of these I have walked away from as well, but I always pay for my time with them regardless, even if it is a fraction of the fee. Suzieque I am sorry you have the need to take it to a personal level by calling me a miserable little man. In my life I am reputable and respected.

Finedreams - These folks that have good sex without paying for it could be having fantastic sex with paying for it. I may be singled out as being desperate, but desperate for remarkable sex, the things that movies are based on.
If I "came clean" and divorced my wife I most likely would not have the funds to engage in my hobby. I do not endanger my wife or family with this hobby, Actually I have maybe 6 or 7 ladies that I call in a year. Yes I trust that they are clean and STD free.

everyone - there are no drugs involved, not even any male enhancement pills. Suzieque - I have even had 'real' dates with a few of the ladies that I have seen. It's been their choice to see me and I offer to pay them and they refuse to take it. They've even paid for dinner. The sex is unimaginatively fantastic most of the time, the company of a young lady is always fun and I never partake in the same town I live in. My wife is happy with her pursuits in her life, I help and support her in every way. So get over it Susi.

The sex is the only thing she doesn't know about, I watch porn in front of her and everything else is kept secret.
Yes we have kids, joint accounts, but I take care of the finances and she is completely comfortable with that. She tried to manage that part of the marriage but it didn't work out too well.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

So...you're seven years into it. Do you see this as continuing indefinitely or perhaps running along a bell-curve as many hobbies do and perhaps your interest/fascination waning? Looking back at my own various hobbies though life, they all began with interest; then a fire-in-the-gut with intense activity; then familiarity; then growing apathy and eventual abandonment. Do you see this going that way for you or do you see it as a continuing lifestyle?

I can't imagine this for myself. My personal feelings of guilt and dishonor would overwhelm the pleasure part of it and prevent me. Probably a cultural thing, but also personal and well-internalized. You appear not to have those barriers.


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PS to previous

Well, too, gotta ask you......

Family risk factors.....what do you think your wife's reaction would be if she discovered it? She's obviously OK with the porn so maybe no big deal? I have no doubt you've thought about that. What's your take?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Big difference between this and that - it is the secrecy that creates the betrayal, not the behavior. Many would frown on porn, many do, but when the wife is aware of it, it is no longer a betrayal. It might still cause problems, often does, but again. It is secrecy that creates damage, both during the betrayal (the robbing of intimacy) and also obviously once the secret is revealed. Particularly when it is understood that if the partner knew, there would be serious problems.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Chazlie - whatever. Continue in your delusional little self-oriented little life. Continue to justify, think you're "all that", and everyone else is wrong. Again, whatever. You're of no consequence to anyone but your wife.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

suzieuque, with all respect, "whatever" isn't much of a rebuttal.

From the description OP has given so far, "self-oriented" gets a little traction -- but so would it with us all, albeit in different areas. "Delusional" is just silly. There's clearly no delusion at work unless his unconventional outlook and behavior qualifies. It doesn't appear to me that it does. As described, the whole thing's working well for him -- at least for seven years and running. Where's the delusion? Intentional deception of his wife, yes, but not delusion.

And he has described himself as clearly consequential to many others as well as his wife.

I'm not a fan of Chazlie's behavior as described. I do understand it, but I don't think I could consider it. Certainly, I wouldn't recommend it, as he appears to be doing. But I don't see that "whatever" advances the pros or the cons of it. Only reiterates your obvious personal disgust about it -- a disgust that I share in some degree. But I'm still interested in the rest of the story if OP will be forthcoming.


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Ive not read most of this, but how are you sure there is no drugs involved,id bet bet my life that most of the women you sleep with take drugs,and also i think having dates with these women without payment is even more of a betrayal to your wife,that sugests there is feelings for these women beyond sex,you are a total slime ball


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

asolo - "whatever" is all I had any energy for or interest in. I wasn't intending to rebut; I just don't care. Regarding delusional, I meant that he is deluding himself in thinking that his hookers love sex and want to be with him even if money's not involved.

I'm going to take my own advice and "let it go" with respect to Chazlie, as I recommended above.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Actually, it appears I'm about the only one who's the least bit interested. The world he's described is far enough from my own that, except for his account of it, I basically can't get there from here. Probably where my curiosity comes from. He apparently has more time and money than I've ever had.

However, If my sex-life was as dull and infrequent as he's described along with a home life that was otherwise desirable as he's also described, perhaps I, too, would consider such a path. Really don't know. I would have terrific trouble with the deception part but perhaps it could be overcome.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

My main objection to OP is his calling this a "hobby". This is NOT a hobby. A hobby is a harmless pastime which this definitely is not.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

That word is a somewhat euphemistic/callous description from my viewpoint, too. However, from OP's posts, I think one can safely conclude that his chosen word for what he's doing is accurate -- for him. I think, to his credit, he has described his activity and his attitude clearly.


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definition

Hobby: An activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.

At least that's what my dictionary says. That's certainly what he's doing.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Gee. Kind of like, Dahmer's hobby was, what was it, oh yeah. Eating people. LOL. Oh, and my neighbor's hobby is, um, looking at child porn. As long as no one knows, it's okay, right? Sure. Dude doesn't want to die without fulfilling his fantasies. What a loss that would be.

Hobby - Amy's dictionary - stuff like collecting stamps, bird watching, doll making, you know, the USUAL.

Using the word hobby in this context only serves to minimize the reality that infidelity hurts people, deeply. So while mr C approaches this as if he's some sort of "Scientist" "studying social taboos" with his "hobbies" as if he were Dr. Kinsey himself, let's not dismiss the fact that for the majority of people, such behavior is deplorable because it sets the stage for major heartache. Sure, he may never get "caught", but there are plenty out there with Mr.C's attitude that DO get caught, that break hearts, that destroy families, who's children end up on sofas in therapist offices wondering why they have trust issues and can't be intimate with their partners.

Let's stop pussyfooting around what reality is and call it what it is - prostitution, and infidelity.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I don't know if he's after the unusual or not. All he's said is that 1) wife isn't very sexually interested, and 2) he's developed a fascination with seeing how good it can get. Maybe one led to the other or maybe not. Don't know that either. Not ready to heap on wife, yet, although sexless marriages are certainly troubling -- says "Joe Experience". However, even now, trying get my head around the idea of my SO -- or anyone I know, really -- being "OK" with my spending time with porn.

Thinking there's more going on than he's disclosed to date.

"...call it what it is - prostitution, and infidelity."

Touche', madame. It is indeed. However, I carefully added "for him" in my post -- saw you coming. And, it seems to me he's acknowledged both....and decided it's OK. Interesting.

BTW...I get your point but I don't think we're into cannibalism and child-porn yet, are we?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

As a society WE decide what is taboo. As long as we draw the line this far in, we won't have to have this same discussion for such clearly horrific topics. It is clarifications such as this thread where people say "Nope, it's not OK with me" that keep the bar high enough that the unimaginable topics can stay that way - unimaginable.


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Oh, please!

Sexless spouses are "taboo" also, so to speak, but I got nailed with two of them. Guess which spouse came out underwater notwithstanding. Injustice is all around all the time. It's just a matter of degrees -- and whether or not you're the aggrieved party, it seems to me.

You're sounding black-and-white. I'm gray. I'm old. I've experienced a lot and seen a lot among my friends and throughout society. I've got a 10 year relationship going with my SO. We're not married. We fornicate regularly. (It's glorious!) We engage in mutually delightful activities that are illegal in several states. So tell me...is she a slut....or perhaps a prostitute because I buy dinners, etc.....and am I a pimp or slime or something similar in your thinking?

"Unimaginable"? Oh, amyfiddler. Please. You're seeming childish.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Well, to me cannibalism is unimaginable, but that's just me. And where is all that other crap coming from? What do I care what you do with your girlfriend, and why would I think she was a slut or prostitute? Wow.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Chazlie who are kidding that you are not exposing your unsuspecting wife to STD's? My co-worker HAD a husband with a "hobby" like yours. Apparently he was as naive as you are in thinking that the prostitutes he was visitng were clean because them told him so. Yes, they were tested once a month as your girls are, but that is not always 100% accurate. Not all things show up immediately on a blood test. Well Guess what??? Because of her husband's "hobby" she now has HPV and genital herpes. And please don't say it can't happen to you, because it can. You are playing a nasty game of russian roulette each time you visit your gals. You obviously have no respect for your wife otherwise you wouldn't put her life in jeopardy. I guess it's your form of punishment towards her.

One more thing. The reason why your prostitutes pay for dinner once in a while or just want to hang out is because they are savvy "business" women. I bet they do it for all their good paying clients. It's one way to keep em coming back for more (pun intended).


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Yo, matti5....OK...this is getting down to it....notwithstanding the moral overlay in most other posts.

Yo, amyfiddler...ya know I love ya...but you're arguing with yourself. If you can't see it, I guess we'll have leave off with it. Thought I was being illustrative. Obviously I failed. You've missed it totally. Oh yeah...wow yourself.


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;kjh

LOL. Probably did miss something in there, it's been a looong work week for the fiddler. Last thing I need to do is resort to arguing with myself.

Wow ee wow wow wow.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Clearly, the OP, does not think he is doing anything wrong.

He seems to be a very macho man.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08


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wow just wow

"If I "came clean" and divorced my wife I most likely would not have the funds to engage in my hobby."

wow, the reason you are still married and betraying your wife is that you want to be able to afford prostitutes. Wow. Not only you are lying to her you are also using her.

do people still call it "open minded"?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

After 20 years, she would get at least 1/2 plus child support; possibly alimony and/or support. It would be a huge deal. Certainly his life would change.


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PS to previous

When I was a child, the mother of a very close friend of mine was giving a tour of her newly updated house to my mother. The new master bedroom was huge. Overheard my mom (I was about 14 at the time) asking friend's mom about the two beds in the master bedroom. She replied "Oh, i'm done with all that. I want my own bed."

Two years later, the husband ran off with his secretary. She got pretty much everything. The laws are different, now, but dissolving a household is still a huge hit.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

suzieque, you are right. He certainly is delusional and not only to think the women would want to be with him. Their working him to maintain good rapport with a devoted repeat customer is friendship to him. How much more delusional can a person get? He is delusional to think he cannot get STDs from them because of the pidly exchange that serves to build his confidence. He is delusional to think STDs have anything to do with cleanliness. He is delusional to think/believe they do not do drugs. He is in their presence a very limited number of hours throughout the year, yet he knows what they do when not with him. He is deluding himself of his supposed reputable and respectable life while deceiving everyone in it, including himself. He knows exactly the drain and how rapidly down it everything he knows would go if ever he is exposed for the fraud that he is. How much more delusional does a person have to be for you to prevent being subjected to disecting critique of precise analysis?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

One question: Does your wife know?

If not, you are endangering her life. That is inexcusable to me. HIV can take over six months to show up on a test. Getting tested in the past month with negative results does not mean one does not have the disease.

If she does know, that's between you and her and I personally don't care one way or the other.

I can understand wanting more than a partner is able or willing to give. I can understand not having the emotional/mental/physical/financial ability to maintain two or more separate relationships. (for if you frequent the same prostitute more than once, it is more than a one night stand... it's a commitment of sorts even if you don't call it that) The only problem I have with this is that sex often = pain and death. And the unknowing spouse is victimized in a way that cannot ever be healed. This is inexcusable.

Consider this possibility: Your wife doesn't want to do the sorts of things you want to do because she doesn't TRUST you. Perhaps you are not the most exciting lover. I'd wager most women would be willing to try just about anything with a man they love, trust and want to please and who they know wants to please them.

Whatever your personal sexual situation, I know that people are sexual beings and have different needs that may change in time and may not reflect those of their spouse. In which case the respectful thing to do is to treat your spouse as you would want to be treated. Consider the pain and social stigma of genital herpes. MUCH more common than HIV. Consider having to explain to every sexual partner after your wife that she gave you herpes. Consider the rejection factor.

Honestly, I cannot imagine having multiple sexual partners for many reasons, but the biggest is I know how people lie, I know that herpes can lie dormant in many people so you don't see them, don't feel them, and the carrier doesn't even know they have them. SCARY!!! For me, the biggest draw to monogamy is the trust.

But to each his own. No judgment on you hiring ego-strokers (for lack of ability to mention what else they are stroking). It's literally the oldest profession out there.

But does your wife know?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Ok, there maybe a few missed comments and replies that I would like to address. I may have made a incorrect choice of words by using open minded as a term of sexual freedom.
As stated before my wife is happy with our marriage, and I am happy with the situation. I do really enjoy the verity.
Asolo, When I enter a crowded room I see 99 females I'd be interested in that way.
I find something positive in everyone. It' doesn't hurt that I have developed an extremely dirty mind as well.
yes I can pick and choose, whom I see but it's generally done by personal recommendations from other gentleman that I know. Acceptance / rejections are generally done ahead of time, before setting up a date.
I have been engaging in the hobby for a while and it does go in waves, depending on who's available when and where. if I have funds available and time to play.
Lately I have been involved a bit more heavily with multiple ladies at one time and even with other men joining in. This adds a new dimension and excitement that I never would have considered a few years ago.
Since I have it's extremely satisfying and outright fun.
Call me a hoochie, slut, gigolo whatever I really don't care, because I do hide it well and only allow this part of me come out every once in a while. Otherwise I am as normal as anyone else.
I do watch porn with my wife, and she enjoys it and learns from it, but it doesn't stimulate her as it does me.

I don't condemn the others as they berate me for my behavior but I don't believe it to be really that out of the ordinary. If it was there is much too much money being used to get or give sex to others in one way or another. If it be porn, sex toys, or escorts, male and female.
all I am trying to do is provide a point of view that may be in the minority to a topic that few are willing to talk about.
I am also a bit gray in my social thinking of many topics. Sex is only one of them, and the only one that I participate in. Experiences of a lifetime are what I am seeking and finding. I know it's wrong and potentially dangerous, but I see it as one of the risks I am willing to take.
really folks your saying that all escorts do drugs, have STD's and don't care a bit about the folks they see.
they too have families, friends, and really they are people too.
can you explain that too?
personally, I see only ladies that are drug free, and are not too dependent.


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RE: I repeat...

Does your wife know?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"I'd wager most women would be willing to try just about anything with a man they love, trust and want to please and who they know wants to please them."

Silversword...I am sympathetic to all of that posts points of view except this one. In fairness, I must yield to your modifier "most". However, clearly, MANY would lose your wager for you. I married two of them. I do understand it. If you're not interested, you're not interested. Compulsion is wrong, but so is deception. Pretending you're like-minded and compatible during courtship and then fessing up after you've got the marriage you wanted is wrong. (Sorry...there's my hot-button again!)

In OP's case, it sounds like they both changed over time. Don't get the mutual porn, though.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Asolo, I totally agree that pretense of open mindedness/compatibility is wrong.

What I was saying is that if two people are wanting to please one another and be pleased by one another they will be willing to try just about anything with that person. The trick is finding someone who wants to do that with you!

I married one too Asolo. He was just not interested. Once-twice a month was way more than enough for him. And yes, that was not the impression he gave in the beginning. Obviously he did not want to be pleased by me, please me, or especially love me... right?

Compatibility is hard to find. Especially both sexual and mental in the same person. I don't condemn his choice to use prostitutes, I only question if his wife knows... and to say that there are people out there who will do what he wants to do without him having to pay for it. Unless he is all about being pleasured, and not about pleasuring... which I suspect is the case :)

I don't get the mutual porn either. Esp. since it doesn't seem to do anything for the wife. Personally, the plot just isn't interesting enough on its own for me to comprehend anyone watching it unless there is some visual stimulation going on!


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Chazlie's wife doesn't know. And he keeps saying she's happy in their marriage. Unbelievable statement. She doesn't know everything about their marriage, so what he's saying is that she's happy with what she knows, which is certainly less than reality.

Chazlie, frankly, with every post you make I get closer to wondering if you're real or if you're just a troll trying to bait people. If so, you certainly achieved your goal. If the former (you're real), ick. But to each their own.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Honey, she knows. She knows. Maybe she doesn't realize she knows, but she knows. Thus, no trust, thus, no sex, thus, "i'll sit and watch porn even though it does nothing for me because it deludes me in to thinking it's keeping him home."

Vicious, sad cycle.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

".... "i'll sit and watch porn even though it does nothing for me because it deludes me in to thinking it's keeping him home." "

Suspect you may have something there. Haven't thought of any other way it makes sense.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Chazlie, what do you tell your wife as to your whereabouts on your "date" nights/days?


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Re wife and porn: "some" people would call it co-dependent, which would suggest sexually addictive behaviors on his part, but it's all psychobabble to me. Doesn't change the facts. However, sometimes the titles are wakeup calls to the seriousness of the situation - particularly where people minimize and don't pay attention to the process.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

It's selfish. Selfish in the extreme.
Disrespectful to the wife. Dishonest.
Endangering her health - her very life even.

Chazlie - How would your children feel if they found out? If someone found you hanging naked and dead in a closet with a silk scarf around your brain?

Do your wife a favor and stop having sex with her.
Just tell her you've made other arrangements...


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

And no, I"m not closed-minded.

If you were single, I wouldn't have a problem with it.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"Does your wife know?"

he said previously that she does not know.

as about his wife not wanting sex wiht him...of course she does not. the way he sounds in his posts I would not want to have sex with him either LOL. of course it is never man's fault that wife has no interest...keep believing it...


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

chazlie (My Page) on
Mon, Aug 31, 09 at 12:37
I've a good relationship with my wife and a good sex life with her. However I also enjoy a separate alternate lifestyle with escorts. Over the past 7 years I've been seeing ladies that provide services. I've been in some realy excellent, enjoyable company of some great people. .

Chazlie

How can you say that you have a "good relationship" with your wife when you cheat? Men like you make me sick! What dont you get about that sanctity of marriage? If this is the kind of life style you choose, why not get out and leave your wife, give her a chance to find a man that will love her and a chance to see what "real" love is. The kind of love thats supposed to exist in a marriage. Men such as yourself make a mockery of marriage! You clearly have no self-respect no respect for your wife! You dont have respect for women period!


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Hello Everyone,

Firstly, I am new here so greetings to you all. Secondly, English isn't my first language so please bear with me if I make some slip-ups. I am not an avid poster or person who visits forums often however this topic has unique personal interest for me.

Chazlie...let me tell you this...it's very hard for anyone to understand your point of view. I'm pretty sure no one has bothered to really wonder about what you first felt when you decided to call an escort and how rejected you felt when all attempts to make your sex life work with your wife didn't work. I am sure it must have hurt very much.

Onto escorts...I believe people should check out a website called angels4you.co.uk. Read sue's diary. It is a brilliant piece of work written by an escort agency owner with remarkable principles. I think she is a true gem amongst us mortals. Plus it gives people a great insight into the business itself.

STD's seem to be a large concern for people here regarding escorts. Alright let me clarify this...if you sleep with street walkers and get your rocks off in seedy bangkok massage parlors...then you are going to get whats coming to you...however there are other options out there...and then the issue of STD's becomes a moot point. The more upscale you go and more trusted professional agencies you ask for service from would mean a lighter amount of risk, almost to the point where it is no different from any other casual encounter or one night stands. Personally speaking, I have used escorts for five years and have no problems as yet to speak of. The secret is to select carefully and not give in to cheap shady deals. The flip side of course is the expense but good things are worth saving for I suppose. Also, if anyone does believe that all escorts are drug users and generally money driven stupid whores...I must disagree. Yes some of them are. But there are some who aren't. Men supply the demand you see. There just isn't as much demand for the elegant courtesan who is discreet and cares about her client because most men want a 20$ blowjob. But they are out there.

Why did I first start using escorts? Well it isn't easy for me to say this...but I was abused sexually when I was 10 years old. The years have passed and I have had therapy but it is still a very traumatic memory. This made it very hard for me to be able to be intimate and be responsive in a normal relationship. Hence women tended to leave me after a point. I have often wondered whether this was my fault since I wasn't very open about the reasons I acted the way I did in a relationship (cold and distant) but have come to terms with it. As time passed, I started to experience sexual urges and after discussing my problems with my best friend, he suggested escorts. He didn't know much about it but thought it would be a good idea for me. So I did my homework and was very lucky to find a very respectable and reputable organization which catered to my needs. And since then, I haven't looked back.

With time, I also began to have normal relationships. During these, I stopped my casual encounters because I do believe in being faithful in a relationship. But based on my personal experience, I must remark I feel women are very close minded in regards to this occupation. It warrants an emotional response from them and very rarely a rational one. Two people I cared about greatly left me after I told them about my history with "Hookers" as they called them even after I explained my unique circumstances.

So I have gone back to my usual ways...but I do crave something more...a proper relationship. Perhaps its out there. Perhaps its not. I'm not sure anymore. But we all have to positive I suppose.

I don't know how I would act in a marriage. But I am willing to admit that I could do what chazlie has done. I may ruffle some feathers with my following comments but I feel they must be voiced. I think many of the posters here automatically assume there is something wrong with him because he is a)lying to his wife b)paying women to be with him and c)defending his actions. Firstly, in regards to paying women to be with him...I don't believe he is doing that because he can't get anyone otherwise...famous working girl quote "You don't pay a hooker for sex. You pay her to go away afterwards" He is paying for no complications and no drama. That's fair in my book. Secondly,about lying to his wife...yes I don't believe people should lie. But I am willing to understand why he is doing it. His wife rejected every attempt he made to improve their sex life and yet most people still make him out to be the problem? I think that's unfair. Perhaps she could and should have done more. However, that withstanding...I still feel that chazlie should tell his wife. I know it isn't the rational thing to do regarding divorce and other issues but it would feel right to me.

As far as defending his actions is concerned...he has done a reasonable job. He hasn't sunk to slinging mud at anyone (some people have at him) and he never demonstrated anything but a sense of rationality about his choices and opinions.

I wish all of you the best of luck in life and hope your problems work out for you.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

First off, to the OP. Fate has a funny way of revealing our secrets when least expected. Learned that when my mom found my first porno mag. Just be ready for when it happens.

Secondly, my wife and I are in an open marriage. That's not the issue, however my wife is an escort also. So I feel that I should help add some clerification. My work provides enough for our family to live on. So why would my wife sell her body you might ask? Because it excites her. Like Parallaxerror said. Not all escorts are drug using money grubbing w#$^^s. 90% of the time she doesn't even have sex with the clients because that's not what most of the clients want. She's had a cross dresser pay her to do his make up once, and most just want to see a naked girl they can touch and talk too. Her boss, who also makes some calls reportedly never sleeps with a client. People can lie, but why would she tell her girls that? You would think the girls will make more money for sex then for not...


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

parallaxerror, you posted a few points worth pondering, however after going to 'sue's diary' I failed to see anything of any value.

and chazlie, if I did what you did I would definately wake up in the morning hating myself more than ever. if you can do it without your consciense beating you to death more power to you, I certainly couldn't.

and that doesn't mean that I have the perfect relationship either. devoid of romance or intimacy.. 37 years of marriage.

'nuff said


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I am new to this website. I have only posted a few times. I just hace to say I feel marriage is a two way street. Sometimes both people can be in the wrong. It is wrong for a woman to loss interest in sex, but sometimes there is a reason. Men can become way too comfortable around their wives. Afier years of weight gain, burping, swearing, farting, nose picking, cleaning of ears with car keys well sexual desire goes out the window. Some women are just trying to keep their families together too.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Excellent points KK1222!


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"No, I have not talked to my wife about it and no I have not gotten any STD's."

Two things. First and foremost, I am a woman and I was open minded about until you said you have not talked to your wife about it. Uh no. Marriage is about making choices that are the best for your marriage, not your--self. That's broken trust if ever I've seen it. Wrong for all marriages.

No STDs? Well, not yet. You're playing Russian roulette. The you-know-what will hit the you-know-what when you do. You may end up with nothing in the divorce when your very happily displayed hobby is found out. Internet is forever. This thread should prove very useful to her when the time comes. Make no mistake, your time will come.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Wow!
I've been away for quite some time, no I haven't been cought or having any problems with my wife. Actually we have just celebrated a milestone anaversary above 10 years.
First I want to say I appreicate parallaxerror & Jimmy71's comments.
I have always felt that I belong in an open marrage, and there are a few escorts that I know are married, actually I know a few husbands as well.
I am not bi-sexual, but I have been involved in a few orgies and a couple threesomes with the ladies.
what memories I have too.... all done safely and without remorse because I enjoy the times I have and I don't want the drama of say going out with the neighbor lady.
I have an addiction to sex, and I am willing to pay for my fun. I also have been lucky enough to know a few ladies that like to have fun like me too.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Sorry, you can do it as safely as you please nothing is 100% safe. Your wife at the very least deserves to know what she is possibly be exposed to so she can get tested and protect herself.

Not for me to judge you but I feel very, very sorry for your wife. Your not only a cheat & and a liar but your exposing your poor wife to disease. Gross.

Hope your really really wealthy (obviously you are somewhat) so she can live the high life on your dime when she finds out.

~Cat


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"no I haven't been cought or having any problems with my wife."

So you're saying it's ok to lie to her because she doesn't know? That's what I am getting out of this. Correct me if I am wrong.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Addictions are always about mediating pain. You'd do well by yourself by understanding what you're really dealing with - addictions cause pain to those around you - most often, these people are dealing with their own co-addictions, unable to come to terms with why they put up with such stuff.

I've never envied a person addicted to anything. Good luck to you -


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

I have always felt that I belong in an open marrage

Did you clarify this with your wife before you married her?

If not, why not?

Did you repeat marriage vows which said you would love her, care for her, be faithful to her, etc?

Marrying someone under any false pretense is the very opposite of love and consideration. I feel deep pity for your wife. She deserves better.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

Chazlie,

Even though I feel sorry for your wife I feel the most sorry for you. Nothing is ever good enough for you and you always want more. The problem with that line of thinking is that you are never truly satisfied and always looking to find the next bigger thing. Life isn't about the destination it's about the journey and your journey seems to be continuously looking for something right under your nose. You say that you are happy in your marriage and have a "good" sex life but I don't believe it. I believe you are doing just enough of what you think will keep your wife happy. If you spent half the energy focusing on your wife than your next sexual conquest you would have that great sex with your WIFE which is a million times better than any whore could ever give you.


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RE: Useing an escort service & escorts

"Yes I trust that they are clean and STD free. "

Op is a tool.Even the porn industry cannot stop outbreaks of Aids and they are tested regularly too.For someone who claims to love his wife,it sure doesn't bother him to play Russian roulette with her life! See how much she loves you and accepts you once you give her an Std,idiot.


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