Well, I am going to wait for other replies on this one. LOL My version of foreplay is a little different from yours.

To begin with, this is a "marriage" forum....might try the singles one instead.

Otherwise, I don't like liver and onions. Actually really detest it. Don't even like to be in the same room with it. If my hopefully-significant other, knowing that, prepared such a meal for me, insisted that I must eat it, and that I was abnormal and less desirable if I didn't....that would be it for me. I would not be compelled by any means to consume that particular dish.

Well, I'm having a lousy day -- so I'll spell it out for you:

You sound very young and immature to me, Noah, because there are some very important and relevant issues that you seem to be overlooking.

First of all, you are totally glossing over the manner in which your girlfriend was raped. She was violated in the most intimate/personal way possible, and probably associates that particular activity with being violated (anyone would) all over again. To expect her to have "gotten over" that isn't realistic.

Second, that particular activity is not physically arousing to women. Despite what you may have seen in a certain famous X-rated movie, there are no sex organs in a woman's mouth or throat. So any arousal she would experience from the activity would be from her emotional responses -- which were covered in point #1 above.

Third, if you've never met a woman who "didn't enjoy" that particular activity, you've either got a very narrow field of acquaintance, or you've dated a bunch of liars. (I'm betting on the second.) Most men also think they can tell if a woman fakes an orgasm. Go to the library and get a book on female sexuality. Educate yourself. Because most men have some very, very mistaken firmly-held beliefs about women's sexuality.

Fourth, your understanding of "foreplay" seems pretty lopsided. It sounds like to you, foreplay is her doing things to you to assure adequate arousal on your end. And normally, a young man doesn't need much in the way of foreplay except maybe a wink. However, most women need some level of foreplay to arouse them to the point where more intense activities become pleasurable. Intercourse without foreplay or arousal can be much the same experience as a OB/Gyn appointment -- and when was the last time you heard any woman begging to go to the Ob/Gyn for a pelvic exam? I hate to rain on your parade, but your GF's lack of interest in foreplay indicates to me that she's probably got a "get it over with" mentality when it comes to sex, and foreplay would only be "prolonging her discomfort." Again, very understandable in light of her experiences.

Despite my snarky tone (as I said, I'm having a bad day) -- I'm not blaming you. I'm just pointing out that from where she's coming from, your GF's behavior makes a lot of sense to me, and your perspective seems to be entirely that -- your perspective -- in other words, not seeing things from her side.

To experience the ultimate physical connection, you will first need to reach a much deeper emotional connection. Start there -- with trust, openness and honesty.

I'm sorry that you're having a lousy day Sweeby.
My idea of foreplay is not just having her please me. I really enjoy it when I HAVE the opportunity to return the favors to my gf. She does enjoy them very much, however she is turned on VERY easily and then instantly wants to go right to the sex. Is this because of the rape or the fact that none of her previous bf's after the first one did any of this? Even if she is never able to get over what she was forced to do, I would like to be able to pleasure her in other ways before sex, and why would any girl not want this? The whole get it over mentality is a huge turn-off and it's starting the make the whole sexual part of the relationship just about sex, which it shouldnt be. It should include kissing, foreplay, more touching, etc. Some of those things are slowly coming around, but I've never met a woman, even one who LOVES SEX, who doesnt want her bf to go down on her or spend time "heating" up the oven.
Getting to the last part, I really have no idea why she doesnt use her tongue at all to kiss. It may seem rediculous to you for me to bring this up, but i'm sure other people have to question this one? Maybe she has never kissed like that before, since she's probably only had sex with her 2 other bf's? I don't want any of this to eventually ruin our relationship, but I am slowly trying to get more out of her as to why some of these things are happening. I am very good friends with her best gf, and she agrees with me about some of these things, but i am still confused. I'm sorry to make your day more worse, I am just looking for advice here.

so you talked about your realtionship problems and possibly sex life to your GF's best friend? You are kidding, right?

Bad plan. Very bad plan. Incredibly bad plan.

Ok, I'm pretty sure that some woman do like oral sex - both giving and taking, some only one part of it, some both. Everyone's different. I think younger kids tend to experiment a little more so you may have only dated people in their experimental years where oral sex seems to be practiced a lot more. Many people decide they don't like it after trying it a couple times.

Anyway, lots of people are mismatched in this regard but even if your girlfriend was not rape, her lack of enjoyment of it is really not all that odd. Some people have sensitive gag reflexes and I think for many people it's a cleanliness or smell issue.. some woman feel they are dirty or smell or that you smell so they don't feel comfortable with it. Also, I think some may enjoy one part of it but not participate because they may feel they have to reciprocate... so they don't do any of it. That may be your girlfriend's problem. Make sure she knows it's not tit for tat. If it is a cleanliness problem, have your tried taking showers and seeing what happens?

Anyway, when you factor in the rape, I'm not really sure where to go except that you really need to accept this in your relationship. Granted, maybe some counseling could help her but I don't think it's worth pushing the issue.

Also, don't really know about the kissing problem...maybe she thinks she has bad breath or maybe she thinks you have bad breath? Also, when my allergies act up I have a hard time heavy making out because I can't breathe through my nose at all, maybe there's something like that going on with her.

You're so young and it's nice to see that you're interested in foreplay, but in the whole scheme of things, I think you'll find a lot of that foreplay stuff will go out the window anyway. If you're into touching, try back or foot massages, putting lotion on her body, or combing her hair, etc. You should be able to find some way to be close without having to engage in activities that she's not comfortable with.

ps. you shouldn't be discussing your sex life with her best girlfriend (or anyone but a therapist in your real life). That's really, really immature. Please respect your girlfriend. She's not trying to kill herself; this problem is not worthy of having to be discussed with friends.

asolo I am not suggesting he talks to his GF's bestfriend abotu their sexlife. he says he did and I am just clarifying, I still hope he didn't because this would the end for me.

finedreams....we're on the same page. Wasn't talking about you. Talking about OP's comment about discussing this with GF. Shouldn't be doing that. Bad. Like betrayal-bad.

sweeby , If I could make a post like that I would think I was having a "very good" day. That was wonderful, so well said.

Noah,

I read your discription of your girlfriend and you could be describing me. Date rape, oral sex, and disliking the same things in sex. Of course that is me 30 years ago but I thought I might be able to help you understand.

Each person will react differently but I can tell you that I would have flash backs in the middle of sex and panic attacks during foreplay. Some days it was just hard enough trying to have a normal sex life and keeping the insides of me together.

As to whether she will change her mind about what things are off the menu, I haven't after all these years. Does my husband wish I would change? Absolutely! but he loves me even though. You are going to have to figure out what is important to you. Thank god my husand love me for all the other parts of me.

For me, if my husband had presured me, I would have thought that he really didn't love me.

I know being raped is a life changing event, but to me it is not the point. If she doesn't want to have oral sex, she shouldn't be pressure to do it.

Noah, you have an awful lot to learn about women and about sex. It's funny how people can have just tons of sexual encouters but not really understand how it works for the other person. You are missing the point completely.

Uggggh, I wanted this subject to go away, because NOAH made me mad and sick to my stomache.
Noah, your GF's body belongs to her. Your body belongs to YOU. If it turned her on to jam pencils in your arm, would you let her? Why not? Because it hurts! Well, right now, today, perhaps tomorrow, maybe even months from now, oral sex HURTS your GF. You cannot SEE the wounds, nor can you understand them. She cannot force that pain to go away. It may never go away. I pray it does, but it is HER pain. It is her body and her mind. Find other stuff to do together, stuff that builds trust, friendship, and intimacy on a emotional level. If you need to touch her, then hold her hand, brush her hair, rub her feet, whatever she enjoys. If you need release, take care of that by yourself, and DO NOT advertise that she is "neglecting your needs." Let time, trust and love heal your GF's mind, body and spirit. If you cannot do this, you are not ready to be with her. If you love her, then don't make the pain worse by holding it against her!

I think you need to examine yourself as a lover and a person

Your girl friend has some very serious issues; issues she may never, much to you dismay, 'get over'. The attitude that she should AND that you are talking to her 'best friend' (HA!) about your sex lives in itself is a big turnoff; even for a woman who has not been sexually violated.

She may not want to touch and kiss you simply because you aren't very good in bed. Maybe your touch doesn't turn her on? Maybe you slobber when you french? Who knows. My best advice is for you to figure out how to please her and not so much yourself. Or better yet, leave this poor girl alone. She deserves better.

Lori