Silver Quite interesting reading. I have thought about EX and how he must feel about DD, or any woman that has been in his life. I do understand the conceptual thinking behind the term "limerance". I had a man that I felt that way about once. I never told him, figuring that if he felt anything for me he would approach me. There were a few mixed signals, I thought but he never made an attempt that was something that I knew for sure showed he was interested in me. He had enough chances to do that and he didn't. He thought of me as a friend or sister I guess. Or he would have gone for a little "roll in the hay" if I would have. He even introduced me to a girlfriend that he began dating and ended up getting her pregnant and they later married. Ouch! With EX's past ( if what he has said is true ) he undoubtedly has great fear of rejection. Again, if what he says is true, he wanted my DD to stay with him, build a future with him and he wanted a family with us. There are too many things though that are negatives to the success of their relationship that he is completely out of touch with which makes me think that he has a break with normal thought processes. This is evident with other actions...his extensive lying and his criminal behavior. My DD did not want to marry or have children ( my goodness, she is only 20 ) and he did. Very much in fact. I don't know that she will ever change her mind but he had said that he would rather have had her and no kids than to not have her at all. I don't know that it would have been something he could have easily lived with though. The age difference is something that was too vast....11 years...when dealing with her age group. Had they met when she was in her 30's or 40's or older then it would not have been as big a deal. I am sorry for him when it comes to honest, heartfelt feelings that he might have had for my DD. The fact that he could install such fear ( and continues to do so ) and the fact that he has told so many lies negates all of that though. It sucks to be rejected. Our family histories have a lot to do with whether or not we can process the rejection in a healthy way. Most of us have been and some of us have stepped over a line while dealing with it that we cringe at after having healed a bit. It is important to teach our kids that when they deal with peers or a romantic interest people have a right to reject them. In the long run it is for the best. I don't know how much EX has control over when it comes to his emotions about the breakup. I am sorry that I can't talk to him. It just can't happen. I want him to get help and to go onto have a happy life. More importantly though I want him to leave my DD alone and let her move on. Thanks for the thread and the link Silversword.

I deleted some stuff that doesn't apply to your situation. ............................................................ A couple in my church adopted a little boy whose parents' rights had been severed because of sexual abuse. The first year of life with Daniel was traumatic for all three: Daniel's kindergarten called the new mom to come pick him up because he was approaching children and adults sexually. Daniel went to a few birthday parties & was quickly blacklisted because of his sexual overtures to guests & parents. Daniel & his new parents went to intensive counselling, & the new mom quit her job to take care of Daniel... not only did he need full-time mothering, but he kept getting thrown out of day care. The parents learned that children who have been abused sexually almost always approach others sexually; it's what the children have learned to do for attention, approval, companionship...love, or a cheap facimile thereof. Yet their abusers have also shamed them into keeping the big secret; Daniel never said one word about previous sexual "activity". Based on what you *know* of sexual activity at her mother's house, I'd bet that this young girl has seen, *& been involved in*, a lot more than you know. She'll keep approaching people, girls, boys, grown men, whoever, sexually because *that's what she knows how to do*. ............................................................ Please get some help for this little girl, & keep her safe. If you 'give her back' to someone who's led her a chaotic existence & allowed her to be sexually abused, I think the day will come when you will find it impossible to forgive yourself. I wish you the best.

RosieL, just want to put a disclaimer her.. I have no problems with the things you say. Even if I did, I'm not into bashing. I just like the discussion. You remind me of my mother, and I respect my mother very much...YOu make some very good points and I respect how you put children first... so this post is just to play 'devil's advocate' with one of your statments. I have some constructive cricticism.. (I think) on this statement you made... "I think that once we have children ... their well being comes before our happiness and love life. They will be with you for a very short wile and you will have the rest of your life for romancing. " I agree with that to some extent. I mean, I even find myself putting my only child, who happens to be my step son, before my own marriage as far as time, effort, patience, etc.. But isn't it true and important to realize that the children will be happiest when their parents are happy too? I mean, they need a happy home! And if mama ain't happy? lol. I don't think that means that a single parent should throw their kids around to different babbysiters while they go out on dates, etc... but clearly, that is not what is going on here. This person is VERY concerned about her childrens' feelings. The fact is, that she needs to rebuild her home and her marriage and I think she is right to do this for herself and for her daughter/children. LisRac states: "I love my husband and I want to try to make my marriage work. My husband went for counseling and realizes how things he did and things he said were hurtful. He knows he was wrong in a lot of his attitudes and wants to try and make it right (with counseling). I'm scared to hurt my kids or make them unhappy, although I know I can't make my decision based solely on a 12 year old's views." Sounds good to me! I think people get divorced because they give up to soon. That's my take. I think they go through a rough year, or in this case, have a very difficult time making a blended family work... and they simply give up. Listen, all families have problems. Even non-blended families. And no one is perfect. My parents have been 'happily' married for 40 years. God, it's like a fairy tale for them now that the kids are gone, but I remember a couple of those years being sort of... nasty... especially when my sister and I were oh, about... 12!!! I remember my sister hating my Dad for about 2 of those years. He had a lot of 'teasing' issues and picked on her for being lazy. Caused a lot of turmoil for the whole family. They both went into counseling, eventually. Now, she's (almost) Daddy's little girl too. I wouldn't trade my family for the world!! Makes me sick to think that my mom would have given up on my Dad just because my sister practically hated him for two years. Course back then I thought "you jerk!"... knowing what I know now and the kind of man and father he became to me. I'm so glad we never gave up and that we were able to forgive the mistakes that we ALL made. Of course, LisRac needs to be realistic about this man and really decide if this IS what is going to make her, then ultimately her children... happy! I don't know this man. But... he says he wants to try to make it work! Let him be a man and help make it work! LisRac has a chance to have a happy family. It is not going to be easy, and the children will need help through it all... but are they going to be better off without rebuilding a family? Are they not going to learn and grow and become stronger by going through these changes and accepting another human being...who they may even grow to love? ... into their lives? The potential is awesome. I mean, just think... if LisRac and her family work through this and rebuild their home... what a strong family that could be! That may seem a little idealistic... but I'm a glass is half-full kind of person, I guess!

The bottom line is that there will always be both predators and prey in all living things. If we use good sense we do what we can to not become prey. There is healthy fear and unhealthy fear. Believing that crime lurks around every corner that mass media and social media promotes is unhealthy fear. This would include the nonsense that all men are potential rapists, women are approaching strangers in stores and malls to lure them into human trafficking, any stranger who smiles or speaks to you is a threat etc. That unhealthy fear will eventually make one prey. The relatively few true predators out there will always be able to pick the weak out of the herd. Unhealthy fear is weakness. Healthy fear is knowing that there are some bad people and things in the world. Healthy fear is being aware of your surroundings. It is locking your doors and taking normal precautions. Healthy fear is Not because you expect to become a victim but because you are realistic enough to understand that bad things happen. Healthy fear is taking preventative measures but never allowing fear to paralyze you from enjoying life. I part company with Elmer when it comes to dives versus nice establishments. The restaurant //hospitality trade has always been rife with corruption on many levels and it is not just the customers. From back door street drug dealing by cooks and local "thugs" in the local dives to women, kink, designer drugs and other services etc. in high end establishments often frequented by the wealthy many of who are politicians or the owners of the high end places themselves. Raye Smith made a lot of good points. The examples cited in the OP were annoying behaviors but nothing criminal. Paranoia is not healthy fear and I think Kath realizes that herself. She just needs to work on getting past that and devise a system to help her DD gain the skills of surviving the life of a young adult. The world is no less safe than it ever was. But for some reason we have become a fear drive society. We tend to divide people by gender, sex and race making shard human issues and threats more difficult to solve. On the other hand we blend criminal statistics into one big ball of fear without dividing them properly into their sub groups so we can view them in clear perspective and determine where and if the real threats are to ourselves. New age feminists refuse to acknowledge that a young women having a consensual 3 way with guys in front of their friends is not in a good position to say no to the 4th guy. Being drunk doesn't absolve one of responsibility no matter if you are a man or a woman. If you want respect as an equal then act and take responsibility as an equal. Only Kath's DD can make the decision to stay or leave her job. But if she does stay it can be a positive opportunity for her to learn how to deal with people and become mentally tougher which is a good life lesson for all to have.